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Thread: How can you be statistically..

  1. #21
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozey74
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Yes, Shell should be in, but I truly believe that there is a certain "bias" against the Steelers at this point.... Hell, they don't want the whole squad in there, do they? ... Let's not forget that Dawson ain't there yet either... And he was one of the best at the position.



    Who was that Patriot LB from the 80's that was inducted last year? What a terrible submission that was. The fact that he got in before Shell and Greenwood??

    Andre Tippett was a player back in the day. It is hard to compare the credentials of a LB to a d-lineman and to a safety, though. In terms of LB's, I'm surprised that Derrick Thomas hasn't gotten more posthumous love from the HOF voters.
    But, Tippett isn't as high up the food chain with LBs as Shell is with safeties. Lambert, Ham, Taylor, Butkus, Nitschke, Lanier, Singletary not much doubt that he isn't in the caliber of thoseplayers and that's the point.

    Shell was probably one of the top 5 safeties of all time, hitter, ballhawk, 4 time SB champ, 5 time all-pro and 70 turnovers in 201 games.

    Pappy


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  2. #22
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
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    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozey74
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Yes, Shell should be in, but I truly believe that there is a certain "bias" against the Steelers at this point.... Hell, they don't want the whole squad in there, do they? ... Let's not forget that Dawson ain't there yet either... And he was one of the best at the position.



    Who was that Patriot LB from the 80's that was inducted last year? What a terrible submission that was. The fact that he got in before Shell and Greenwood??

    Andre Tippett was a player back in the day. It is hard to compare the credentials of a LB to a d-lineman and to a safety, though. In terms of LB's, I'm surprised that Derrick Thomas hasn't gotten more posthumous love from the HOF voters.
    But, Tippett isn't as high up the food chain with LBs as Shell is with safeties. Lambert, Ham, Taylor, Butkus, Nitschke, Lanier, Singletary not much doubt that he isn't in the caliber of thoseplayers and that's the point.

    Shell was probably one of the top 5 safeties of all time, hitter, ballhawk, 4 time SB champ, 5 time all-pro and 70 turnovers in 201 games.

    Pappy
    In addition to the "too many Steelers" sentiment working against them, Donnie Shell and Dirt Dawson have to deal with the fact that safeties and centers are undervalued as compared to some of the more flashy positions. I heard a quote from a voter in print once concerning why Dawson was not getting in. He said something like "The best center is already in the Hall and his name is Stephenson." (My @$$...Dermontti took all of the strengths that Dwight Stephenson had and all of the strengths that Mike Webster had, and combined them into one body). After Jerry Rice gets inducted into the Hall of Fame in a few years, should we stop inducting any more WR's because "The best wide receiver is already in the Hall and his name is Rice?" Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  3. #23

    Re: How can you be statistically..

    First off Donnie Shell should be in the hall. LC was great but not as great as those in the hall, IMHO. But I would love to see him in. Dawson, Bettis should get in the hall, but it may take longer than us fans would like. Rod is a guarantee first ballot hall of famer, and I am so proud to have watched him for so many years.

    MSM,
    I have to disagree cause I don't believe a handicapper should be a voter. And it is no crack at you, but your analysis is done by statistics in a database, not with your eyes on the game itself.

    NKy,
    I agree with you that college football OT is much more fair and more exciting.

    Tippett--eh, the case can be made for both sides, am I upset that he is in and Shell is not, of course. But that should take away from Tippett's career.
    He who forgets, will be destined to remember.

  4. #24

    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLebowski
    MSM,
    I have to disagree cause I don't believe a handicapper should be a voter. And it is no crack at you, but your analysis is done by statistics in a database, not with your eyes on the game itself.

    .
    I have never missed 1 steeler game since I was 4 years old. Not 1. If you think I know nothing about what I am seeing, you are mightily wrong. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself whatever it is you want to believe.

    And furthermore, when these beat writers go into their little room to discuss a player, its almost all done from a stats point of view. Bouchette will go in and say , he had 75 TD', 10,000 rushing yards etc etc. Therefore a sports capper with better understanding of the stats would be a better fit to vote.

  5. #25

    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Here's a little different perspective? The Pat's are a dynasty by all accounts, cheating or not, but with a team that good, there should be quite a few HOFer's right? Well lets look at who fits the bill.

    Bellicheck? Before Spygate there was no question that he would end up in the HOF but the longer this is goes on without complete closure, he may be kept out just to make a point to others who might try underhanded activities to get an edge. Eventually he gets in IMO.

    Brady, Yep. Not a lot to say, he keeps putting up these numbers there might be another conversation that needs to be had, not just HOF talk, GOAT talks. Scary I know. The spygate stuff doesn't affect Brady near as much as Bellicheck.


    And then?

    Moss will most likely get in but he's only been a Pat for one year, he's not part of the "Dynasty". It's not like he's won a championship with the Pats yet so would he go in as a Pat?

    Bruschi? To be honest I don't know where his stats stack up against other LB'ers but he's never struck me as a HOF player. He's solid and consistent but I don't know about HOF worthy.

    Seau? Was on the downside of his career when he signed with the Pats and wsa just a role player. Might be a HOF'er but can't see it as a Pat.

    Roidney Harrison? Borderline/Doubtful IMO.

    Richard Seymore was on track early on in his career but I hear a lot of Pat's fans say that he's dropped his level of play year after year. Don't know specifics but that's what I hear.


    Who else? Oline is no namers who are better together than they are seperate. The team is exactly that. A Team. They do it with a bunch of good players who play their role without many superstar players.

    Just thought it was interesting after I thought about it for a little.

  6. #26

    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Smartmonies
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLebowski
    ...

    And furthermore, when these beat writers go into their little room to discuss a player, its almost all done from a stats point of view. Bouchette will go in and say , he had 75 TD', 10,000 rushing yards etc etc. Therefore a sports capper with better understanding of the stats would be a better fit to vote.

    So you've been in these meetings?
    He who forgets, will be destined to remember.

  7. #27
    Pro Bowler Flasteel's Avatar
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    Re: How can you be statistically..

    [quote=Mr Smartmonies]
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Smartmonies":275zwvzw
    You have to understand that the Hall of Fame voting is made up of Voters like Peter King. Last Year Peter King had Jon Kitna as the 9th best QB and BigBen as #17.
    How this guy has a hall of fame vote is beyond my comprehension.
    ...What denotes a voting position? ....Who gets them, and why?
    I don't know exactly. I know you have to be a media member. Beat writers mostly get to vote. I think their are like 45 voters or something like that.

    They would be better off Using sports handicappers.[/quote:275zwvzw]










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  8. #28
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    Re: How can you be statistically..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chavezz
    Here's a little different perspective? The Pat's are a dynasty by all accounts, cheating or not, but with a team that good, there should be quite a few HOFer's right? Well lets look at who fits the bill.

    Bellicheck? Before Spygate there was no question that he would end up in the HOF but the longer this is goes on without complete closure, he may be kept out just to make a point to others who might try underhanded activities to get an edge. Eventually he gets in IMO.

    Brady, Yep. Not a lot to say, he keeps putting up these numbers there might be another conversation that needs to be had, not just HOF talk, GOAT talks. Scary I know. The spygate stuff doesn't affect Brady near as much as Bellicheck.


    And then?

    Moss will most likely get in but he's only been a Pat for one year, he's not part of the "Dynasty". It's not like he's won a championship with the Pats yet so would he go in as a Pat?

    Bruschi? To be honest I don't know where his stats stack up against other LB'ers but he's never struck me as a HOF player. He's solid and consistent but I don't know about HOF worthy.

    Seau? Was on the downside of his career when he signed with the Pats and wsa just a role player. Might be a HOF'er but can't see it as a Pat.

    Roidney Harrison? Borderline/Doubtful IMO.

    Richard Seymore was on track early on in his career but I hear a lot of Pat's fans say that he's dropped his level of play year after year. Don't know specifics but that's what I hear.


    Who else? Oline is no namers who are better together than they are seperate. The team is exactly that. A Team. They do it with a bunch of good players who play their role without many superstar players.

    Just thought it was interesting after I thought about it for a little.
    Ty Law will probably get in.

  9. #29

    Re: How can you be statistically..

    When was his last season with the Pats?

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