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Thread: Do you consider...

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Jom, I really don't think Tomlin had a whole lot of input as to the "final decision" last year, and I really, unfortunately, think Colbert still carries more weight, even in this year. But who really knows? .... Does Marvin make the decisions for all of the "poor quality individuals" chosen in past years, or does Mike have a say in it as well?... If Marvin is a "defensive genius" as many thought, what is the problem?.... Point being, it's not always the head coach making the pick.

    Yes, our O-line is somewhat weak, as is yours... I do not forsee too many "pro bowlers" from your starting roster at this position either. Here's a good read about the division and positions, although somewhat biased.

    http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/ ... rth-t-g-c/

    http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/ ... -rb-wr-te/

    I appologize for the "cross thread" quote about Carson, but it was mentioned before in our conversations. I'm sure you won't agree, but maybe you can rationalize the logic behind it... Bottom line is that he has to win before he is appropriately recognized. (I will add that I was a HUGE Carson fan during his days at USC...)

    As for Palmer, until he can show that he can be a true leader of his team, and carry the team to victory when everyone else is trying to lose, he won’t supplant a Super Bowl champion at the top of the heap.

  2. #12
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d

    I don't know who has final say which is why I don't speculate.
    Translation: I have nothing to contribute to this thread, so I will whine about semantics...
    Pointing out a lack of information on your part isn't whining.

    Complaining about it is though.

  3. #13
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Jom, I really don't think Tomlin had a whole lot of input as to the "final decision" last year, and I really, unfortunately, think Colbert still carries more weight, even in this year. But who really knows? .... Does Marvin make the decisions for all of the "poor quality individuals" chosen in past years, or does Mike have a say in it as well?... If Marvin is a "defensive genius" as many thought, what is the problem?.... Point being, it's not always the head coach making the pick.
    I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

    Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Yes, our O-line is somewhat weak, as is yours... I do not forsee too many "pro bowlers" from your starting roster at this position either. Here's a good read about the division and positions, although somewhat biased.

    http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/17/ ... rth-t-g-c/

    http://mvn.com/nfl-steelers/2008/06/09/ ... -rb-wr-te/
    I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

    And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    I appologize for the "cross thread" quote about Carson, but it was mentioned before in our conversations. I'm sure you won't agree, but maybe you can rationalize the logic behind it... Bottom line is that he has to win before he is appropriately recognized. (I will add that I was a HUGE Carson fan during his days at USC...)

    As for Palmer, until he can show that he can be a true leader of his team, and carry the team to victory when everyone else is trying to lose, he won’t supplant a Super Bowl champion at the top of the heap.
    Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

    The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...

  4. #14
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...
    Word.

  5. #15
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

    Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.

    I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

    And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.

    Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

    The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...
    Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.

    Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?

    As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

    As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
    ---------------------------------------
    But I'm a bit pissed because my grill-out was rained out today. (I'll grill in snow, but not rain...) So I've just been hitting the beer alot today... As AS pointed out in another thread, I am the poster boy for hating the Bengals due to being stuck here for work and being innundated with crap. Jts knew this, so that's why he enjoys it. I respect him alot, and he's a good shit...I enjoy the banter with you even though it is tough this time of year with limited material and no action. Actually, if you make your way down from the windy city for the match-up this year, I will gladly buy you a beer or welcome you to my tailgate festivities. (Have been doing it for the last 11 years for every match-up since I moved here, and put out quite a spread...)

    ......But as you said before, this particular smack forum is turning a little too soft for my preferences... As your Friendly Neighborhood Bungle Basher, it's time to mix it up a bit... Just for fun... Besides, I'm bored...
    .
    .
    .
    .
    What's up with your mascot?... Pretty pathetic.



    But I guess ous isn't much better...



    Your O-line looks a little under weight. They probably play alot like they look...



    Maybe this should be your "poster boy"...


    At any rate, The Bengals are the little dog yapping on the porch. But when the big dog shows up, they hide with thier tail between thier legs...

    But I forgot... The Bengals are the "new era" according to Chaddy....



    ...Either way, it still inevitably ends up looking like this...


  6. #16
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    I definitely understand that Colbert and Rooney have a lot of power in the organization but I wasn't just complaining about one bad pick. After round 3 your whole draft strategy was suspect. You guys should have been more aggressive and moved up to take Anthony Collins before we did, and you should have added someone to the D-Line. Tomlin has to take some fault for those decisions because ultimately he will be the one taking the majority of the blame.

    Similarily, Mike Brown deserves some of the blame for the "poor quality individuals" but what you read and hear for the past two seasons is that Marvin Lewis is a coach on the hot seat and his draft selections are partly the reason. Personally I blame Mike Brown more than Marvin but perception is reality. Mike Brown unfortunately isn't going anywhere, Marvin hopefully isn't but you never know.

    I think it all depends on health with our O-Line. IF Levi and Willie can stay healthy this season (And I see no reason why Levi wouldn't), they have a very good chance to make the Pro Bowl. Levi was a pro bowl alternate last season and he was playing hurt the first half of the season.

    And although Bobbie Williams probably won't ever make a pro bowl I look at him like many Steeler fans look at Aaron Smith. A very under-rated player that produces every season.

    Going into last season, I wouldn't agree with you. But Ben played very well last season, so I can see the logic behind the argument. Obviously I would still rather have Carson. Everyone looks at Chad and TJ and thinks that Carson has it easier than most QB's in the league but I think that is a common misconception. A lot of teams we're putting only 7 in the box and using cover 2 schemes that hurt our passing game. If our running game can become effective again then I think Carson will regain the title as the best QB in the division in everyone else's eyes.

    The writer though loses all credibility by bring Derek Anderson into the conversation. He is not even close to Carson and Ben's level yet...
    Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.

    Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?

    As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

    As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
    ---------------------------------------
    But I'm a bit pissed because my grill-out was rained out today. (I'll grill in snow, but not rain...) So I've just been hitting the beer alot today... As AS pointed out in another thread, I am the poster boy for hating the Bengals due to being stuck here for work and being innundated with crap. Jts knew this, so that's why he enjoys it. I respect him alot, and he's a good shit...I enjoy the banter with you even though it is tough this time of year with limited material and no action. Actually, if you make your way down from the windy city for the match-up this year, I will gladly buy you a beer or welcome you to my tailgate festivities. (Have been doing it for the last 11 years for every match-up since I moved here, and put out quite a spread...)

    ......But as you said before, this particular smack forum is turning a little too soft for my preferences... As your Friendly Neighborhood Bungle Basher, it's time to mix it up a bit... Just for fun... Besides, I'm bored...
    .
    .
    .
    .
    What's up with your mascot?... Pretty pathetic.



    But I guess ous isn't much better...



    Your O-line looks a little under weight. They probably play alot like they look...



    Maybe this should be your "poster boy"...


    At any rate, The Bengals are the little dog yapping on the porch. But when the big dog shows up, they hide with thier tail between thier legs...

    But I forgot... The Bengals are the "new era" according to Chaddy....



    ...Either way, it still inevitably ends up looking like this...


    Your typing is excellent for someone who has been hitting the beer all day!! Very impresssive.

  7. #17
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozey74
    Your typing is excellent for someone who has been hitting the beer all day!! Very impresssive.
    ...An acquired skill......

  8. #18
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.
    The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?
    I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

    "He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

    http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

    I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

    As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
    There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

    The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


    I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

    Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...


  9. #19
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    Re: Do you consider...

    I hear a lot about Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, and that UDFA rookie RB, but never anything about Kenny Irons. I know he got hurt before his rookie season began, but will that injury keep him out another year?

  10. #20
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    Re: Do you consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Actually, after round #3 we tried to trade up and work a deal with Dallas (right before your pick), from what rumors have been going around... But I do agree, and I wasn't thrilled with it from that point on. As for not taking a D-line pick, I am still befuddled over it... As for Marvin, he has really dug his own hole with the media with the egotistical attitude in which he treats them. And I am curious, the latter pick at #5 I believe. ...Shirley... Wow, during his first PC he states that he can't be at OTAs due to a court date.... Is that on Brown or Lewis? Maybe blame Katie?... Seriously though, I do somewhat like Marvin, at least I did till he whined and cried about Roethlisberger and such.
    The Shirley pick I blame on Marvin. He could have convinced the FO that we should go with Frank Okam instead who was still on the boards. Although personally I think Okam will be a bust in the NFL. Shirley is talented but not worth the risk. It was a stupid pick period.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Levi, as you said, has no reason not to be healthy. Willie, I'm not so sure... He is a wonderful lineman, but he has been hampered... I have not heard any positive words about his condition. Have you?
    I've heard some positive things about Willie. One he says that he is feeling better than he has the past couple of seasons. Also he moved very well on some plays in mini-camp, on running down the field for some blocks. Here is quote from one of the practices.

    "He laughed when told Joseph said he looked like a tight end on the move. "

    http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6824

    I'm probably reading a little too much into it. But hopefully he can keep it going and prove that he's healthy in Training Camp. I really don't want us to start Stacey Andrews ahead of Willie.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    As for Carson, even though I like the guy, he simply had a poor season... Alot of teams are faced with 7 or 8 in the box. Ben faced it quite a few times. When Carson is pressured and has to scramble, he will sometimes cough-up the ball... Hell, he did it several times against us alone. I personally view his problem as being the line in front of him. He hasn't had enough time to find his targets without being hit/knocked down/pressured.

    As for your running game, I have heard that Rudi has returned to his "previous" playing weight. If so, he could most definitely be a force to be reckoned with.
    There are things that Carson does well and things that Ben does well. Improvising when a play goes bad is definitely ben's speciality. But Ben did get sacked a heck of a lot more than Carson did. You can blame the O-Line for that but I think Ben has to take a lot of that blame as well. I think Carson is better technically than Ben, in keeping defenders guessing when it comes to snap counts, getting the ball out of his hand quicker, reading where the blitz is going to come from so he can find the open receiver quicker.

    The problem is that last season Carson made some bad passes and receivers ran some wrong routes. The offense was not in sync at all. If the running game becomes even decent this season then I think that will have a domino effect and the rest of the offense will start clicking better. Rudi should have a better season but I'm not expecting much from him. Chris Perry is going to be the wildcard. I hate that our team is relying on a player that can't stay healthy, but we need a RB that can take it outside and streach the field a bit. Although IF the hype about James Johnson turns out to be true then I wouldn't even be surprised if Perry got cut.


    I'm trying to come out to Cincy either this season or next. If I do I'll definitely stop by your tailgating party, thanks for the offer.

    Now excuse me while I clean my shoes...

    Is that picture from the year the Bengals won the super bowl?

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