[QUOTE=steeler_fan_in_t.o.;581391]JPN, I agree that no player coming out of college is a finished product, they simply have a floor and a ceiling, with a certain likelihood that they will fall within that range. What I am seeing too often over the past few years are Steeler draftees who are coming much closer to hitting their floors than their ceilings. Much of that comes to character evaluation, while much also comes to coaching. These issues must be addressed if this team is to move forward.[/QUOTE]
That is a good way of looking at it. I would put the majority of the responsibility on coaching. I am a firm believer that coaching is what separates. I believe that from the lowest levels to the highest. When you get to the NFL...The transition of understanding you went from a game to a job needs to be realized by a player from the coaching level to translate to the field. That approach is a huge hurdle for new players coming into the league. The preparation & development factor is a 50/50 marriage between player & coaches. The problem that exists in "development" is the player's part is stacked on the coaches part...Not the other way around. The phrase "a player is a reflection of the coaches" carries a lot of weight.
[QUOTE=Shawn;581373]I agree and disagree. While every player is a project to one degree or another coming out of college. There are those who dominate at the college level. While domination at the college level is a reasonable indicator for NFL success, it certainly isn't fool proof at any position. With that said, players who are scrubs at the college level, rarely become good in the pros, just because they have protypical size.
In the case of Adams, I know no one here watched more of him than me. He played with a lack of passion, never played with a mean streak. He never played with urgency. He was painfully inconsistent. I watched him look like a good OLman in some games, then give up two sacks the next. He has always been "potential"...and has never seemed to play up to it.
I fear the scouts were starry eyed over his look...his size...his long arms. I think he probably looked really good in controlled situations where he knew every eye in the house was watching him. How much game film did these guys watch? I suggest not much. Because if they had, they would have seen what I seen. He was a 4th-5th round project at best...but fooled the scouts into giving him a 1-2nd round grade.[/QUOTE]
you definitely hit this one out of the park.. you warned us about Adams and it's played out exactly as you predicted.
LT is a special position I think. Need some special traits to be a very good one. How many here HATED Starks as a RT? But now some want him back for this season at LT? Just an example. Maybe Adams needs some NFL seasoning at RT to make a Starks like move to LT. But will he ever be more then serviceable at LT? I don't know. Some here don't like Gilbert at RT can he play guard better? Or is he just a back up? How good is Foster really? Is Pouncey worth keeping at a premium price? Decastro was looking much better. That is just some problems on the o-line. Will a stud LT IF he plays that well fix this offense? I am not sure.
A lot of the "LTs" in last years draft are playing RT. Many start out that way. Some have started out that way for the Steelers. It appears that is the way Adams needs to start out but the Steelers already have Gilbert there. Now that Beachum has logged several starts at LT we see he isn't much better. The difference between Beachum & Adams is Beachum looks to be assignment strong & is further along recognition wise but he is beaten just bad.
[QUOTE=feltdizz;581436]you definitely hit this one out of the park.. you warned us about Adams and it's played out exactly as you predicted.[/QUOTE]
Felt, I wish I was wrong on this one. I like seeing former Buckeyes succeed especially when it means improving the Steelers.
[QUOTE=JUST-PLAIN-NASTY;581385][FONT=Comic Sans MS]College dominance doesn't gauge NFL success. For every argument you could find a counter & you know that. It isn't any revelation to say a scrub in college won't explode as a pro. I also didn't say anywhere where size or stature grades a player out. I watched a lot of Adams. He was never a 4th or 5th round grade and to sit here & say YOU knew that now holds no weight. He was inconsistent...Like I said. But he also showed he could be a very good LT. Just like any other kid coming out...Could & Should is settled on the field. Scouts don't make the calls & Colbert, Tomlin, & position coaches evaluate. From Top to bottom...A miss is a miss. [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Comic Sans MS]You are critical of the Steelers scouts...But you have arrested coked-up drop out Colt Lyerla rated as a 2nd round TE in your Steelers mock. You should probably change that.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/QUOTE]
You sound angry. Listen, I'm not here to argue and get petty. First, Lyerla is a second round talent in my book. I just recently found out about the cocaine...therefore haven't changed my pick yet. Doesn't change the guys talent. Not sure what any of that has to do with Adams.
Second, you and the scouts were wrong about Adams. I don't claim to be a scouting super hero. I'm saying that if an average eye like mine seen Adams as a 4th-5th round grade (as I said often before the draft) then scouts should have seen it as well. It was obvious. There was no question that Adams played like a ho hum average player. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Sorry that me bringing that up offends you.
[QUOTE=steeler_fan_in_t.o.;581388]I agree that he has improved, but I see that as more of a recovery from injury and living up to his own level than anything else. He was a highly touted first rounder who, IMO, is simply getting back to where he should be, not jumping beyond his starting point.[/QUOTE]
Decastro is the least of my worries on this team. Putting the Pouncey spearing aside, we would be contenders with a few more Decastros. He is one of the few young game-changers on the roster.
[QUOTE=Shawn;581464]You sound angry. Listen, I'm not here to argue and get petty. First, Lyerla is a second round talent in my book. I just recently found out about the cocaine...therefore haven't changed my pick yet. Doesn't change the guys talent. Not sure what any of that has to do with Adams.
Second, you and the scouts were wrong about Adams. I don't claim to be a scouting super hero. I'm saying that if an average eye like mine seen Adams as a 4th-5th round grade (as I said often before the draft) then scouts should have seen it as well. It was obvious. There was no question that Adams played like a ho hum average player. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Sorry that me bringing that up offends you.[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]I know you are an OSU fan...But You should wait if/when Adams fails & they cut him before you pat yourself on the back. Believe me...I understand. I'm a PSU fan & it takes allot for me to want a PSU kid drafted by the Steelers. Doesn't happen much. When I see where a PSU kid goes I shake my head too. I wasn't wrong about Adams. I didn't tout Adams pre-draft for the Steelers to take him. The Steelers picked him so I support him. He had 2nd round grade & it was deserving. Everyone had him rated high...Well except you. Now don't forget, even though your were down on him you also did say "Adams can be as good as he wants to be. He has never wanted to be excellent therefore he wasn't. Physically he is a specimen and could be elite." So you saw what I & all the experts, scouts, FO, coaches saw. His inconsistency dropped him. Hindsight now lets you choose the road. Easy path. So no matter what happens, people will be wrong when it comes to draft. You are wrong, I am wrong, 32 teams scouts, FO, & coaches are wrong. When you try & stick something out there with the "I told you so" taste...You are going to get back the "What happened here" flavor. There is allot of that out there for you just like everyone else in here including myself. Be humble. You & I are opposite on the Top of the 2013 draft. However, I am still behind all the players because they are Steelers. I have nailed things throughout my posting time & never brought up "I told you so"...I don't need to. You should realize that...You get more respect when you don't. People remember.[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]I mentioned Lyerla because you are critical of the FO & coaches about picks. About doing their homework & being able to see something coming. I guess you didn't see the Irony in that in relation to these posts. I was high on Lyerla before the season until I dove into him. Given his arrest on coke & leaving school...I don't think he will even be on the Steelers board. His trouble goes all the way back to high school & it was the same at Oregon. He wasn't viewed as a good teammate & he has questionable work ethic. He has terrible immaturity issues. Lyerla is a "me" kid and one who doesn't think practice time translates to game. He had 2 catches in 3 games in 2013 with multiple drops. He was a distraction on the sidelines with his unhappiness. He felt the best way to improve was to talk about conspiracy theories and whine to the media about his touches. It could be all related to his addiction but remember...That is his problem he put on himself. Now...If you want to talk about "Colt Lyelra ability" as a football player when he is focused & a team guy...Yes, he could be a talent. Unfortunately, we never saw that & may never see it. Someone will take a flyer on him. Possibly late round. Maybe he gets it turned around quick & goes through the process and helps his stock. All that said...If you spend a 2nd on him & he tests positive for a controlled substance...Wouldn't that be filed under "scouts should have seen it"? But that "Doesn't change the guys talent"...Interesting. [/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]I will continue to support Adams because his development only helps the Steelers. I will support Jones & Bell because their development are equally important. If Adams can't be a LT...Maybe he excels on the right. Gilbert has a little position flexibility inside so things could still work out. Adams develops into a very good RT & they draft a Matthews, Kouandjio, or Lewan that OL issue may be solved. I think step #1 is getting an OL coach in here with a pedigree not a "sale" tag. They have too large of an investment on the OL & it may be getting bigger. Then give me a TE (Seferian-Jenkins, Fiedorowicz, Grimble, Lynch) & a big WR (Matthews, Robinson, Coleman, Moncrief) in the 2nd & 3rd....I like the offenses upside....With a new OC of course.[/B][/FONT]
First, I don't drug screen all the guys on my mock draft. I am not paid to be thorough. I am not a scout. I am a fan with an opinion. Steeler scouts are paid to do their homework. Yes, Adams has all the physical tools. I have said that over and over again. But, when those physical tools don't even get it done at the college level, what makes someone think they will get it done at the pro level?
As for "supporting" Adams...trust me I want to be wrong about him. I'm hoping someday he just provides average blocking for the Steelers. But, until then (if that day comes) I will have to say the Steelers made a mistake with this one...and with Gilbert. And we wonder why the OL is bad?
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][QUOTE=Shawn;581760]First, I don't drug screen all the guys on my mock draft. I am not paid to be thorough. I am not a scout. I am a fan with an opinion. Steeler scouts are paid to do their homework. Yes, Adams has all the physical tools. I have said that over and over again. But, when those physical tools don't even get it done at the college level, what makes someone think they will get it done at the pro level?
As for "supporting" Adams...trust me I want to be wrong about him. I'm hoping someday he just provides average blocking for the Steelers. But, until then (if that day comes) I will have to say the Steelers made a mistake with this one...and with Gilbert. And we wonder why the OL is bad?[/QUOTE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS]You don't have to "drug screen" people in your mock Shawn. You do enough to call a guy a talent but don't know he is all over the news and what happened. That's a huge rock you are under. Hey...That's fine if that's what you want people to believe. You want to be critical of draftees by the Steelers and say you knew it all along but the Steelers didn't see it on one hand. On the other hand you want me to believe you don't do your homework because you don't get paid to be thorough & that's why you don't know about the mess Lyerla is in...I don't buy it. We will leave that argument go. I'm not going to put my foot on someone's head why they tread water.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS]The Steelers miss...Just like you & I. Just like 31 other teams. To say someone didn't show anything in college to deserve to get drafted into the NFL in the 2nd round by the Steelers is ridiculous. I did the predraft process on Adams & Gilbert. I watched Adams play allot being a Big 10 guy. After they were selected I even did it more thoroughly. Neither were a reach. Both deserved their grades. That was the consensus on both. Inconsistencies was on both their resumes but that doesn't make them undraftable or 4th or 5th round grades. That's the draft. The track record speaks for itself. Will they both end up as cuts & never be good starters? Time will tell. They are at least sniffing the field so I for one won't sweep them under the rug just yet. I believe coaching needs to be addressed. I saw a flat line across the board with the young OL this year after Koogs left & Bicknell came aboard. My assessment is the Steelers made a mistake thinking Adams was ready for the left side. They put allot of "hope" that was the answer. If they had a quality LT & didn't have Gilbert... Adams would be logging starts at RT for the last two years & this conversation wouldn't be taking place. They were wrong. Damage has been done. That is another discussion. Is it irreversible? Unfortunately all of that is on Adams and his "past" leaves it in doubt right now. With Gilbert at RT..The best thing for him right now is to get on the field at TE. That won't be the cure all but let's hope that keeps his head on right & keeps him on track. Adams should have went the Marvel Smith - Max Starks route until he was ready...Not when the FO needed him to be ready. [/FONT]