[QUOTE=Slapstick;578563]Look. For me, there are two problems with this shutdown:
1) Regardless of anything else, the ACA is a law. It was passed by the House, the Senate, signed by the President and scrutinized by the conservative majority Supreme Court. It passed every Constitutional test. The checks and balanced were checked and balanced.
2) Using the livelihoods of innocent people as leverage to get your way is a gigantic crock.
Agree or disagree, like or dislike, it's a law and screwing over people who happen to work for our government is shameful.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=#00ff00]+1 Sensibly and logically stated.
And, the shutdown is impacting me and family members.
[QUOTE=flippy;578569]You could argue that Regan's supply side economics is one of the biggest drivers of the current divide between the wealthy and poor which is the ultimate crux of most of the problems the gov't is currently dealing with. For the super rich, they got richer, but the gov't kinda screwed the pooch over the last 20-30 years by getting too far out of the way of private business. The whole economy is driven by consumer spending and people at the bottom of the economic chain spend everything to get by. And the big problem, is so many people are now at the bottom. There's no middle class any longer. And there's not enough to drive the consumerism of the economy and the gov't is now trying to address.
Every change has opposition. This is no different in that regard. But I think you can argue that the ACA is more fundamental and serves a more basic need than most gov't programs. I'm a proponent of cutting the federal gov't's involvement in just about everything from Education to Social Security to Defense to the IRS and on and on. Talk about wasting money. 90% of gov't jobs are a complete and utter waste of taxpayer dollars. Most of those things should be privatized as much as possible. But I do think the gov't is responsible to ensure people's basic freedom and rights. We should collectively provide a safety net for people that face unfortunate circumstance. We wouldn't need the gov't to provide this backstop is people had more character. It would take private individuals helping one another out. But they generally don't. They just put their heads in the sand and pretend not to see the world suffering so it ends up costing us all in the end. But that's fine as far as healthcare goes. I don't think 10s of thousands of people each year in the US should have to declare bankruptcy because of a catasrtophic circumstance. Is the ACA all messed up and too complicated? Absolutely. But it's a step in the right direction as a collective society. The political shenanigans around the ACA are ridonkulous. And don't be fooled into thinking the current shutdown has anything to do with the ACA. It's all about distracting us from the debt ceiling.
Sorry that a handful of republicans in the house are causing problems for you individually. But the reality is we really should be looking at everything in gov't and cutting most of it so we can support what's absolutely important. I'd recommend going and getting a private sector job. Or if you have the interest and capability, work for yourself. Create your own opportunity.
In the flippy world, I live where socialism and conservatism intersect. We can't be free until everyone is free. We can't be secure until everyone feels secure. The economy will always fundamentally break down and ebb and flow until everyone is rich.
If you really want the gov't to get in line, make it unnecessary by your own personal actions. Start a charity. Give money to those in need. Volunteer. Encourage others. The only reason gov't exists in the first place is we're collectively not charitable enough as individuals. And it will take individuals to make that happen. The decisions you make for yourself have a ripple effect on everyone around you. Tough times sometimes happen so we're forced to take a harder look at ourselves. They are gentle reminders. Really, try not to get distracted and miss what's really going on.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=#00ff00]Flip --- thanks for this. This is full of sensibility and insight, shows the need for circumspection and collaboraborative resolve instead of the damaging extreme polarization and its bitter results.
Stop mixing politics and sports for god's sake.
Sorry but i have zero zero zero zero zero respect for people who stop supporting their team because ofg some political agenda ****. I couldn't care less if the Rooneys were communists, liberals or what ever political **** there is out there.
Way too often politics has ruined sports. Just ask all those athletes who couldn't compete in the olympis cause of all that political crap.
Actually the most beautiful thing about sports is that it brings together people no matter what they believe in or what politics they favor.
I've got to laugh about the number of people on this board who think they are informed about this govt shutdown, but are merely spewing what the liberal media are putting out there. The truth is, it isn't just the fault of the Republicans--it's them, AND the democrats, AND the President. J, sorry for what you're going through. Too bad you can't count on your government to help you.
Here's a good article on the matter:
Posted date October 5, 2013 - 10:15pm Updated October 6, 2013 - 10:44am
[h=1]Column: Blame 'em all for shutdown[/h] By SHERMAN FREDERICK
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Here’s a good motto to guide you through normal American politics:
“Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and give me wine to accept the things I can’t.”
After last week, I wouldn’t choose to live by this corrupted version of the serenity prayer. I’d end up a raging alcoholic.
The government of the most powerful nation in the world shut down for no good reason as Republicans and Democrats twerked themselves into a partisan frenzy. The spectacle served no useful purpose other than to demonstrate the vacuum in leadership that exists first and primarily with President Barack Obama and secondarily with figures such as Sens. Ted Cruz and Harry Reid.
Perhaps we have become an “ineptrocracy,” which is defined in the Urban Dictionary as “a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing.”
Let’s start with the GOP. What a mess. Yes, a good many Republicans were elected to slow, stop or cut federal spending. I get that. In fact, I support that. But adopting a strategy with no end-game resulted in needless confrontation. They’re trying to draw an inside straight but betting like they hold a full house. It makes no sense.
If this is what a Tea Party-guided government looks like, count me out. I’m not interested in bumper sticker retorts. I’m interested in better leadership and better government.
Then there’s Reid, the majority leader. Don’t get me started on Harry Reid. First, he talked President Obama out of negotiating with Republicans. Reid told Obama that if the president dared to talk with Republicans, he would not attend the meeting.
Reid then had a second chance to avert a shutdown, provided he’d agree to a one-year delay of the implementation of Obamacare and an end to the medical device tax. That deal would have been best for the country. But being the jackass he is, Reid gave it his standard partisan “nyet.” No leadership here. Move along.
Then there’s Obama, perhaps the worst president since, I don’t know, you pick one.
Jimmy Carter’s too easy. Franklin Pierce, maybe?
Obama is most responsible for Washington’s failures because he is the president. He is the leader.
Throughout his tenure, he has divided Americans by politics, skin color and bank account. Instead of being a leader who lifts us out of our partisanship — the kind of leader he promised to be during the 2008 campaign — Obama draws smaller and smaller circles around himself.
Our president negotiated with terrorists in Iran. He acquiesced to the Russians on Syria. And while our government spun closer to shutdown, Obama played golf like a Florida retiree — 17 rounds since July 4. Nothing against golf, but in that span of time, he did exactly nothing — nada — to bring together the saner political forces and find a solution.
That’s not leadership. That’s not even showing up.
And I’m not the only one to call out the president for this leadership failure. Bob Woodward of The Washington Post correctly points out that if something bad happens to the economy as a result of the shutdown, the fault will be placed “on the president’s head.”
“He’s got to lead,” Woodward says. “He’s got to talk. And the absence of discussion here, I think, is (a) baffling element.”
I wouldn’t call it “baffling.” I’d call it par for the course.
Just a couple of weeks ago, our president warned that a government shutdown could cause an economic collapse for America and the world. If he believed that, why didn’t he make an effort to prevent it? Why golf? Why not talk with Republicans, who are his fellow Americans? Instead, he opted to guarantee a shutdown.
So did the Republicans. And so did Harry Reid.
I blame ’em all.
Sherman Frederick, former publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal and member of the Nevada Newspaper Hall of Fame, writes a column for Stephens Media. Read his blog at [URL="http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/sherman-frederick"]www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/sherman-frederick[/URL].
[QUOTE=flippy;578558]The hate for gov't is kinda funny cause it's so similar to the hate for the Steelers this year. We've all gotta blame someone or something and it seems quite random who we are told to choose to hate. We don't really know anything about anything, so we randomly pick a media outlet to decide for us. And we like to think we're deciding for ourselves. But we tend to have had those choices made for us at the most part at birth. Steelers fan by blood. Obama hater by blood. It's not much different.
I say stop watching Fox News or CNN or any political commentary that does not realize this is all comedy. All these networks are shills for the parties they represent. And both major parties are fudged up beyond belief. The real problem isn't the gov't, it's the people that vote for these leaders. Too many idiots vote. Democrats. Republicans. They're all a bunch of clowns. Good ideas get screwed up. Good intentions get redirected. But the problem is no one really covers politics open and honestly. It's all an obfuscated mess that no one can understand. But because of our insane levels of individual and national pride in the US, we can't admit we don't know a thing. We like to pretend we're educated because we listen to a lot of 30 second sound bites that are no different than commercials that tell us to drink more Coke.
Anger is always kinda funny. Anger is always misdirected. When we are angry we don't think logically. Not that we ever think logically anytime any way. This country needs a modern 'All in the Family' type of sitcom.[/QUOTE]
.and this is why I love The Daily Show... sure they lean to the left but they expose all sides with great jokes.
[QUOTE=BradshawsHairdresser;578591]...Too bad you can't count on your government to help you ...[/QUOTE]
I'm confused, help me out here. I thought the basic problem was that there was too much government dependency. Is it only bad when *other* people get government "help"?
[QUOTE=Big J;578564]You are clearly one of his die hard supporters. When you don't have the money to pay your car payment you don't go get a loan on some vacation property that you know good and well you can't pay for. The spending has to stop. This country is getting to the point where there are more people with their hands than those going to work. An economy can't thrive like that.[/QUOTE]
true... but you also can't take out a loan with the bank and then tell them you will only pay if they do XYZ.
Some voters remind me of parents who have 2 kids and favor one over the other. The favorite son asks to use the car and it's no problem, no questions asked even if the kid stays stay out all night and brings the car back with a few dents and an empty tank. The other kids asked to take the care out and it's
Where are you going?
Why are you going?
Why can't your friends drive?
Get a second job?
Fill up the tank and make the next car payment
be home by 7:30 and fix those dents!
This take the ball and go home if you don't play by my rules is killing the country. Playing with peoples lives? Debts not being paid... I'm sorry but you have the Tea Party to blame for this one. We've never had this problem until Obama got in office we know damn well why it's happening and it's not because we are broke. We are far from it but a few people are playing politics with the OP's life and he is too blind to see it's not Obama causing this problem. The House won't hold a vote because they know it will pass.
[QUOTE=Ernie;578580]It's amazing to me how far this country has fallen away from it's founding principles...
even to the extent that the "Tea Party" gets blamed by many as the reason why the country is in the shape it's in. I'm just glad that you folks are still in the minority for the time being.[/QUOTE]
The Tea Party isn't responsible for the country being the way it is but they are responsible for this shut down.
..and what shape is the country in? Honestly.. things could be better but they could be much worse. If we scaled back our military budget we would be fine. Sure there is waste in places and we could always scale other programs back but they are minimal when you look at our military budget. I have a hard time understanding how Healthcare is the beast in the room. What type of nation are we if treating our own is viewed as a negative?
Double round of serious slow claps for SASF and Flippy.
[QUOTE=SanAntonioSteelerFan;578593]I'm confused, help me out here. I thought the basic problem was that there was too much government dependency. Is it only bad when *other* people get government "help"?[/QUOTE]
These same people will say Gov't doesn't create jobs.. then turn around and ask why Obama isn't creating jobs.