[QUOTE=Dee Dub;557429]Sorry JPN, 24.5 tackles for loss, and 14.5 sacks in the SEC does not translate to "speed lag." Some players just play quicker than they run a straight line. Jarvis Jones may run a straight line like a turtle but he plays like a beast who is very quick.[/QUOTE]
Exactly... IIRC, Marcus Allen was a 4.7 guy or something like that... but, I don't recall ever seeing him caught from behind.
If Jones is there when we pick then we should take him. His on field production numbers in college are top shelf ... I don't give a damn about combine crap and neither did Terrel Suggs whose underwear numbers were very similar to Jones.
Also, quit with the myth that defensive players don't contribute their rookie years under LeBeau. It's just not true. If the player has the talent then he sees the field. If he can't play as well as the guy in front of him then he sits and learns. Its pretty simple. If we draft Jones I don't know whether he would start or not but I do think he would be a contributor.
If Miller is miraculously healthy come the start of the year and we drafted Eifert who do you think starts? Hands down its Miller with Eifert contributing off the bench. We have just had better players on the defensive side of the ball so its harder for the rookies to get playing time. That tide is turning so we will see rookies being used more on defense.
[QUOTE=ikestops85;557484]Also, quit with the myth that defensive players don't contribute their rookie years under LeBeau. It's just not true. If the player has the talent then he sees the field. [/QUOTE]
Really? Please tell me who that rookie player with talent was. I guess Troy didn't have enough talent. Timmons didn't have enough talent. The list goes on and on.
[QUOTE=SteelerOfDeVille;557480]Exactly... IIRC, Marcus Allen was a 4.7 guy or something like that... but, I don't recall ever seeing him caught from behind.[/QUOTE]
I think Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 too and he ended up having a pretty decent career...
Jones round 1
Ertz round 2
I'll take that. Of course I was ecstatic when we had Mendy Round 1 and Sweed Round 2.....
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;557466]You are way off here JPN. These just aren't stats. These are monster stats. These are take over game stats.
How many of those guys that you list played in the SEC? Dont you think that is another level of play? And I am pretty sure the only one who made an impact his rookie year was a player who played in the SEC. ;)[/QUOTE]
Not way off...Just off agreeing with you. You were a stat guy. I showed you "monster" stats from players drafted in the first & second round that led the nation in sacks & had "monsterous" stats. Those stats are just as impressive as Jones. Out of the last four, 1 had an impact first year. I hate to do this to you but for a guy who pimps the SEC and you can't recongnize a SEC player? Then you go and make the comment "And I am pretty sure the only one who made an impact his rookie year was a player who played in the SEC". YEP...You know it all. Texas A & M wasn't in the SEC when Miller played for them. How long you been watching?
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;557468]Yup...the best GM's aren't necessarily drafting with the 2013 season in mind. Much more concerned about 2014-2020 and beyond.
Drafting for immediate need gets you Troy Edwards with 61 catches for 714 yards and 5 TD's as a rookie, then diddly-poo afterward.
Drafting with a long-term view gets you Troy Polamalu with 38 tackles and zero starts as a rookie, then a Hall of Fame career afterward.[/QUOTE]
Drafting for need also gets you Pouncey, Holmes, Miller, BB, & Burress.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;557486]Really? Please tell me who that rookie player with talent was. I guess Troy didn't have enough talent. Timmons didn't have enough talent. The list goes on and on.[/QUOTE]
Funny but when LeBeau became Defensive Coordinator in 2004 he put Troy in the starting lineup. He also immediately inserted youngsters Chris Hope and Larry Foote as starters even though they knew nothing about his so-called "complicated" system. Tim Lewis is the one who didn't start Troy as a rookie.
Funny how Woodley had the talent, Cortez Allen had the talent, Gay had the talent, McFadden had the talent (remember him making a great play against Indy in the palyoffs?), Anthony Smith had the talent. Timmons saw the field enought to get 2 fumble recoveries his first year and his second year he saw the field a lot. So what you are propagating is a myth. Quit trying to play it off as a fact. If you have the talent LeBeau puts your butt on the field somehow, someway!
[QUOTE=BigRob;557427]Moore and Jones both have work ethic problems. Don't want either one of them at 17. More money isn't going to give them better work ethics. Money just makes you more of what you are.
Call me crazy, but I'm taking Tank Carradine at 17. He is a top 10 pick any other year. He's going to sit for a year in Lebeau's system even if he was healthy.
Take him at 17 and get a stud for years to come.
I'm not as much a draftnik as some of the people on here, but in limited level of analysis of the draft, Tank Carradine has gotten my attention. I want the Steelers to take him too.
You guys realize that one of the future rule changes doesn't involve "no defense" on the field... It's as if people think, "2013-2014 or bust... who cares if we don't have a defense in 2015 or 2016"..
Re-read what ruthless said JPN... both were "need", but, one was "immediate", the other was "long-term". I would draft long term... that's the BPA philosophy, right? "We have Willie Parker, he's decent, but, Mendy's on the board and a top 10 talent, by many"... give it a shot...
Specific players out of the equation for a moment...
If there was an all-pro, hall-of fame, player that wouldn't start this year to be had at 1.17, I'd take him in a heartbeat, regardless of position. I care about the team being good EVERY year...
Next player example...
Many fans were ticked that the team didn't take Bryant Johnson the year they selected Polamalu. That year, he looked to be a solid up-and-comer, and quite possibly could have rocked with Big Ben as his QB... many years later, it's not even close. That's the pick I'd make over and over and over again... without hesitation... "long-term-solution", not flavor of the week.
Now, if you're convinced that Eifert will be an All Pro for a decade to come, sign me up... I just haven't seen that out of him, IMO.