Re: Cowher says Roethlisberger was respected by team
[quote=HeHateMe][quote=RuthlessBurgher][quote=HeHateMe][quote=RuthlessBurgher][quote=HeHateMe]Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.
PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.
When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.
[url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD"]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD[/url][/quote]
You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.
Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).
In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.
The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.[/quote]
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING[/quote]
You are correct that the Niners blew out many of their opponents in those Super Bowl years. And Montana was awfully impressive. I'm not disputing that. Joe was [b][i]THE MAN[/i][/b]. He's a Pittsburgh-area guy...why would I want to put him down? I'm just saying that he also benefitted from a quality run game and defense as well.
In the 1984, 1988, and 1989 playoffs, the San Francisco defense allowed 10, 0, 16, 9, 3, 16, 13, 3, and 10 points. Montana did not have to score 21, 23, 38, 34, 28, 20, 41, 30, and 55 points to win those game (but he did anyway, which is certainly impressive). These teams were getting blown out and throwing the ball like crazy to try to catch up, and yet still could not score more than 16 points in any of these games. That's some good defense right there (Ronnie Lott did as much for the Niner defense in this seasons as Troy Polamalu does for the Steeler defense in Ben's championship seasons).
The only close game in the playoff during those 3 seasons was Super Bowl XXIII against Cincinnati (20-16). When a defense does not allow more than 16 points in the 9 games that constituted 3 runs to the Super Bowl, you could easily say that the defense was a primary reason for those titles.
In Ben's two runs to his titles, his defense allowed 17, 18, 17, 10, 24, 14, and 23 points in those games. The Steelers needed him to score 31, 21, 34, 21, 35, 23, and 27 points to win those games.
Again, this is not to say that Ben is a better QB than Montana (far from it). This is just acknowledging that Joe benefitted as much from his defense and running game as Ben did.[/quote]
You can't compare the two. Noway Montana had as effective of a running game or defense. Sorry I wont accept that. How did a down defensive year affect Ben last season? We went 9-7. Ben had his BETST season as a pro but it was not enough now was it? He NEEDS a good defense. Montana does not. In your breakdown of how many points the Steelers D gave up you FORGOT to factor in PICK SIX'S. Ben likes to throw thoes you know and that adds to the points that the defense gives up even though they didnt give them up. I will cite Rashean Mathis here. Also, you didn't factor in defensive Touchdowns either. Tyrone Carter, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison etc have all scored via the defense. Worth noting.[/quote]
In 1984 the 49ers had the #1 ranked defense, #2 ranked offense including the #3 ranked rushing attack. The defense was better than the offense, statistically speaking and the rushing attack was top 3; I think Montana had plenty of help and actually had more help than Ben has ever had since he's been the QB (except maybe for Ben's rookie season).
You're argument that Montana carried the team without benefit of a running game and defense doesn't hold up, #1 defense and #3 rushing attack (154 yards per game, d@mned impressive).
Re: Cowher says Roethlisberger was respected by team
I never said he didnt benefit from "any" running game. I remember Wendell Tyler and Craig/Rathman etc. My premise is that the 9ers bread and meat was not the running game. The Steelers' was and is. In 1984 the 9ers were not the potent offensive team that they became later, so of course they had more balance. Walsh, Wyche, Reid were and are PASS 1ST guys. Do you understand the West Coast offense? It is predicated on short passes and NOT the running game. Of course there will ALWAYS be an exception to every rule but the BODY OF WORK bears the truth. Montanas career was aided by a strong passing attack. Ben Roethlisberger has only had ONE such season in that regard. Prior to 09 he ran a run heavy offense. Montana DID NOT. The West Coast offense is an extension of what? AIR CORYELL whom in turn got his philosophy from Sid Gilman. Do the research and you will find that they all ran PASS HEAVY offenses. A little perspective.