Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jom112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Life
Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.
Still to early to make that comment...
I dont think its too early to say that Tomlin is already a better leader of men than that goofy character in your sig. :lol: :bungalssuck
Ha. In all seriousness, Colbert has done some good and some bad. He helped put together a Super Bowl team, and is on his way to turning the team into a contender again. Sure we've got issues, what team doesn't, but overall I am mildly happy with the direction of the team. The hanging issues do need to be addressed by next season or there will be huge concerns.
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Life
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.
It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):
2000
#2 T Marvel Smith
2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi
2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons
2003
None
2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor
2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu
2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip
After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Life
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.
It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):
2000
#2 T Marvel Smith
2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi
2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons
2003
None
2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor
2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu
2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip
After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.
Excellent points Ruthless :Agree
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Life
But concerning the draft, you certainly have to wonder if a re-vamping of the scouts responsible for recommending OL prospects is in order.
It could also be the quality (or lack thereof) of o-line coaching during Colbert's tenure. Colbert came to the Steelers in 2000, the same year Russ Grimm was brought on board as o-line coach. Here are the o-line draft picks during the Colbert and Grimm era (00-06):
2000
#2 T Marvel Smith
2001
#4 T Mathias Nkwenti
#5 C Chukki Okobi
2002
#1 G Kendall Simmons
2003
None
2004
#3 T Max Starks
#6 T Bo Lacy
#6 C Drew Caylor
2005
#3 T Trai Essex
#6 G Chris Kemoeatu
2006
#4 T Willie Colon
#6 C Marvin Philip
After Colbert picks 'em, it was Grimm's job to coach 'em up and form them into legit NFL players. I would say that of that list, only Marvel Smith was a true success story. He developed into a solid LT, the most difficult position to fill. Faneca and Hartings were established players before having Grimm as their o-line coach, and LG and C were not issues during his tenure, so Russ' coaching ability didn't really come into play regarding those two positions that were rock steady during his tenure. During all of Grimm's seasons, was there ever a time when you were fully comfortable with the RG and RT, though? He didn't seem to be able to develop guys to fill those positions. Simmons has been adequate, but not what you would have expected with the 1st round pick used on him. The diabetes excuse can only stretch so far with him...it should be under control by now, several years later. Max held down the RT gig through the Super Bowl run, but what did he get shortly thereafter? A demotion to second string. After Grimm left, Zeirlein showed up, and that appears to be a regression even further downhill. Laying the blame for o-line woes on Colbert vs. Grimm & Zeirlein is a chicken vs. egg type argument...we may never truly know the answer...but I just also wanted to mention that the o-line development from our coaches has been lacking this decade as well.
Definitely quality questions to raise RB. However, a couple of things stand out as I look at that list. First of all, I firmly believe that you've got to invest a premium pick in the offensive line nearly every other year to maintain a solid starting five. Now a premium pick could definitely be a third-rounder if it's high enough or if it's a deep class for linemen, but generally I'm talking a first or second round pick. Targeting offensive linemen in those slots in only two of seven drafts tells me that there is a problem with our front office in placing the right value on the line...that falls squarely on Cowher (now Tomlin) and Colbert. I fully understand that there may not be a guy who represents value there in any given year (like this year for example), but you better make up for it the following year or chase a top-notch guy down in free agency to compensate and we have done neither in recent years.
Secondly, I don't see any names there who have gone on to have even mediocre success with another team. Now there are only five guys on that list who we've jettisoned and they were all late-rounders, but still nothing to indicate that we drafted talented guys who simply weren't coached up. Aside from those guys and Marvel, we've got two third-rounders (Starks, Essex) and a number one pick in Simmons. I think it's very fair to say the jury is still out on Max (I personally think he will develop and be a good pick), while Essex has been okay, but a head-scratcher since his name was called...probably a miss there (although he was chosen late in the round). As far as Simmons, I thought he looked like a great pick for us until the diabetes got him. In both the past two preseasons he's looked like a man possessed but flamed on us miserably in the regular season. You can't predict something like that, so it's real hard for me to blame anyone there. So it seems that when we've picked a lineman high (on only two occasions), we've done well. In that transitional third round area it looks like we may be batting .500 and for the late round picks we're maybe two for seven (or three because Okobi did receive a nice second contract for a 5th-rounder), which isn't all that bad considering the crap shoot it can be at the end of the draft. If anything, the late selections along the line mirror the inconsistencies with our overall drafts as do the success stories at the top.
It doesn't seem to be a problem of position coaching (this is NOT an endorsement of Zierlein!) and it doesn't look like we've got any significant issue with evaluation (although it would be nice to be a little more consistent in late rounds). The issue seems to overwhelmingly be that we haven't placed the priority on drafting big uglies at the top of the draft. I'm not trying to hate on Colbert or our head coaches, and they've done a pretty good job with the draft which has translated quite nicely to success on the field. However, they collectively have ignored maybe the most critical area on the team for far too long and it has caught up to us. Thank God we have a franchise quarterback!
:2c
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
One word for you all...
Paragraphs :P
Pappy
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Just one question.
Where is the "Beware this thread has turned into an incredibly long winded blast of hot air" smilie? I cant believe I just plodded through all that.
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
One word for you all...
Paragraphs :P
Pappy
You're right Pap and I fixed it (somewhat). It's not that I didn't use paragraphs, it's that you have to hit the return button twice to make them stand out and I simply forgot to do that between my first and second ones. I can only beg for the forum's grammatical forgiveness and promise it will never happen again. :P
Re: Colbert is one of the best GM's in the Biz!
[quote=Iron Shiek]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jom112
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Steel Life":s5v8obuh
Tomlin is a better coach than Colbert is a GM.
Still to early to make that comment...
I dont think its too early to say that Tomlin is already a better leader of men than that goofy character in your sig. :lol: :bungalssuck
Ha. In all seriousness, Colbert has done some good and some bad. He helped put together a Super Bowl team, and is on his way to turning the team into a contender again. Sure we've got issues, what team doesn't, but overall I am mildly happy with the direction of the team. The hanging issues do need to be addressed by next season or there will be huge concerns.[/quote:s5v8obuh]
Goofy character? I see someone has been watching Marvin "giggles" Lewis's press conferences...
