31st in receptions
36th in yards
60th in average per catch
12th in td's
52nd in 20+ yd receptions
46th in YPG
2nd in fumbles
41st in YAC
59th in catches for 1st downs
27th in targets
31st in receptions
36th in yards
60th in average per catch
12th in td's
52nd in 20+ yd receptions
46th in YPG
2nd in fumbles
41st in YAC
59th in catches for 1st downs
27th in targets
We shouldn't and we won't sign Mike Wallace, even if he wants a Antonio Brown-level contract. His effort is not worthy of a top dollar contract, no way, no how.
we'll probably offer him the same contract he refused to sign this year and he will probably refuse again in search of Vincent Jackson type money.
and he'll probably find it, only takes one team like the Raiders or Redskins to overpay...
How much would you pay for a guy who is 5th in yards and 7th in TDs? Because it's the same guy, just a different system and different year.
He's worth about $2.7M.
[QUOTE=D Rock;533966]How much would you pay for a guy who is 5th in yards and 7th in TDs? Because it's the same guy, just a different system and different year.[/QUOTE]
Do you think we are getting a new Off Coord next year and implementing a new "Wallace friendly" system? The Wallace we see in the system this year would be the Wallace in the system next year. That is why he is worth the fair offer he was offered this past summer and not more. Haley isn't all of the sudden going to start chucking 40-50 yard passes because of Wallace. We fired the guy who did that.
[QUOTE=flippy;533967]He's worth about $2.7M.[/QUOTE]
IMO he is worth $8-9M just like we offered him. Not more and not less. I just don't see how we have even that much. I think there was one $8M+ contract available in the plan and Wallace got first chance at it and balked at it and Brown jumped at it. As they say, the rest is history!
[QUOTE=flippy;533967]He's worth about $2.7M.[/QUOTE]
He's not even worth that right now. Not basing it on the most recent play and attitude. He stinks. If he just tries, we win last game.
[QUOTE=lloydroid;533970]He's not even worth that right now. Not basing it on the most recent play and attitude. He stinks. If he just tries, we win last game.[/QUOTE]
Remember the Bible story about Samson who lost all his strength when his hair was cut? Maybe Wallace lost his abilities when he got his mohawk cut off. Clark's been playing good with the Mohawk.
C'Mon Wally, it's time to Rock the Hawk.
Has anyone here ever had turmoil at work, felt like they were being paid less than they deserved, had an uncertain future with their company?
It tends to affect your focus, whether you are committed to doing your job or not. I fully believe that if Wallace signs a contract with the Steelers before next season, one that is agreed to by both sides, that these brain farts will disappear.
Many of us do not like Wallace's punk moves this summer and some of the apathy he showed the other night but lets not characterize him as a bad WR. He is a very good WR who excels at one thing and does others average to beter than average. That is worth what the Steelers offered him in the NFL today.
I think the bottomline is Wallace knows exactly what he has been doing since day 1. He doesn't want to be here no matter what PR he puts out. He will do his best not to let his teammates down but he isn't going to kill himself going above and beyond either. He sees the handwriting on the wall and it says "Goodbye Mike."
[QUOTE=Oviedo;533969]IMO he is worth $8-9M just like we offered him. Not more and not less. [/QUOTE]
our front office is very smart, that's the sum they offered him previously and that's most likely the same amount we will try to re-sign him for again at the end of the season.
if Wallace can find another team that is willing to pay him more, then God Bless him.
On the other hand...
How much do you pay a guy who still has TRIPLE the number of TD catches in this awful, miserable year for him (6 so far) than every other WR on this team combined this season (2 total so far; Antonio Brown has 1 and Emmanuel Sanders has 1 and that's it)?
How much do you pay a guy whose WORST season in terms of catching TD's (only 6 TD catches during his rookie season) is still TRIPLE the number of TD catches that each of the other "Young Money" wideouts had in their BEST seasons (Sanders had 2 TD catches in 2010 and 2011, Brown had 2 TD catches in 2011 and 1 TD catch in 2010)?
How much do you pay a guy who has SIX TIMES as many career TD catches as Sanders (30 vs. 5) and TEN TIMES as many career TD catches as Brown (30 vs. 3)?
Until anyone other than Heath Miller starts catching TD's for this team more than once every 2 freaking months, I cannot imagine how poor our scoring offense will be if Wallace gets kicked to the curb as many on this board seemingly can't wait to see happen.
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;533994]On the other hand...
How much do you pay a guy who still has TRIPLE the number of TD catches in this awful, miserable year for him (6 so far) than every other WR on this team combined this season (2 total so far; Antonio Brown has 1 and Emmanuel Sanders has 1 and that's it)?
How much do you pay a guy whose WORST season in terms of catching TD's (only 6 TD catches during his rookie season) is still TRIPLE the number of TD catches that each of the other "Young Money" wideouts had in their BEST seasons (Sanders had 2 TD catches in 2010 and 2011, Brown had 2 TD catches in 2011 and 1 TD catch in 2010)?
How much do you pay a guy who has SIX TIMES as many career TD catches as Sanders (30 vs. 5) and TEN TIMES as many career TD catches as Brown (30 vs. 3)?
Until anyone other than Heath Miller starts catching TD's for this team more than once every 2 freaking months, I cannot imagine how poor our scoring offense will be if Wallace gets kicked to the curb as many on this board seemingly can't wait to see happen.[/QUOTE]
$8-9M if you can. The NFL isn't the US Government and teams can't engage in deficit spending. Like I said, if you look at our cap situation there may have been just one $8M contract for a WR and Wallace walked away from it and Brown grabbed it. Doesn't matter what Wallace has done, can do, whatever, if the money isn't there it isn't there.
You keep characterizing anyone who isn't falling over themselves to pay Wallace whatever he wants as "kicking him to the curb" but in reality Wallace has been the only one who has put himself on the path to leaving. He could be locked up right now for the next 5-6 years, but [U]HE chose not to[/U]. That isn't fans doing or saying anything that is Wallace making the decisions. I want Wallace to stay but at the price that fits into the teams cap. I jsut don't see that happening if Wallace wants more than he was already offered. That isn't kicking anyone to the curb that is just how it is.
I say franchise him and negotiate briefly. If he won't sign long term for a reasonable amount (and I know he likely won't), trade him for a 2nd rounder. If we can't get that (and I'd think we would), trade him for a package of middle round picks (like a 3rd, 4th, and a 5th).
[QUOTE=steelblood;534086]I say franchise him and negotiate briefly. If he won't sign long term for a reasonable amount (and I know he likely won't), trade him for a 2nd rounder. If we can't get that (and I'd think we would), trade him for a package of middle round picks (like a 3rd, 4th, and a 5th).[/QUOTE]
If he won't come around to the team's position that is what I would do too, but we would still have the cap issues to resolve.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;534096]If he won't come around to the team's position that is what I would do too, but we would still have the cap issues to resolve.[/QUOTE]
I don't think there is any way he could fit within the cap if they Franchise Tag him.
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;533994]On the other hand...
How much do you pay a guy who still has TRIPLE the number of TD catches in this awful, miserable year for him (6 so far) than every other WR on this team combined this season (2 total so far; Antonio Brown has 1 and Emmanuel Sanders has 1 and that's it)?
How much do you pay a guy whose WORST season in terms of catching TD's (only 6 TD catches during his rookie season) is still TRIPLE the number of TD catches that each of the other "Young Money" wideouts had in their BEST seasons (Sanders had 2 TD catches in 2010 and 2011, Brown had 2 TD catches in 2011 and 1 TD catch in 2010)?
How much do you pay a guy who has SIX TIMES as many career TD catches as Sanders (30 vs. 5) and TEN TIMES as many career TD catches as Brown (30 vs. 3)?
Until anyone other than Heath Miller starts catching TD's for this team more than once every 2 freaking months, I cannot imagine how poor our scoring offense will be if Wallace gets kicked to the curb as many on this board seemingly can't wait to see happen.[/QUOTE]
Now we have Plax. And we can always draft someone or try to bring in a cheaper FA.
[QUOTE=D Rock;534100]I don't think there is any way he could fit within the cap if they Franchise Tag him.[/QUOTE]
I would tend to agree with that which is why I said there may have only been one $8M contract for a WR. We are going to have to cut a lot of veteran players to clear space to sign Wallace for even $9M per year. That would likely mean saying goodbye to Harrison, Foote, Kiesel and maybe even Troy given some of that savings in cap space will have to be used to tender our RFAs and other player we want like Lewis, Pouncey, etc.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;533968]Do you think we are getting a new Off Coord next year and implementing a new "Wallace friendly" system? The Wallace we see in the system this year would be the Wallace in the system next year. That is why he is worth the fair offer he was offered this past summer and not more. Haley isn't all of the sudden going to start chucking 40-50 yard passes because of Wallace. We fired the guy who did that.[/QUOTE]
playing devils advocate...
I wonder if letting Arians go was a mistake. Ben has taken less hits but he is still hurt (the worst on field injury of his career IMO) and our big plays aren't so big anymore.
Don't get me wrong... the offense is more efficient but we aren't scoring more or crushing teams this year like most expected. Injuries play a part but we were often injured with Arians as well.
The injury to Ben has nothing to do with Haley's scheme. It was a fluke. My only complaint about letting BA go is that we did it too late.
Don't be surprised if Wallace goes to Indy. His agent may already be talking to them.
One more thing: I used to think that Wallace was irreplacable. I no longer think that.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;534078]You keep characterizing anyone who isn't falling over themselves to pay Wallace whatever he wants as "kicking him to the curb"[/QUOTE]
Well, there were posters on here wishing injury on the guy a few short days ago.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;534106]I would tend to agree with that which is why I said there may have only been one $8M contract for a WR. We are going to have to cut a lot of veteran players to clear space to sign Wallace for even $9M per year. That would likely mean saying goodbye to Harrison, Foote, Kiesel and maybe even Troy given some of that savings in cap space will have to be used to tender our RFAs and other player we want like Lewis, Pouncey, etc.[/QUOTE]
Is it worth sacrificing the likes of Hampton, Foote, Keisel, and maybe even Harrison and Troy in order to work out long term deals with guys like Lewis, Pouncey, and Wallace? Although it's painful to lose integral parts of multiple championship teams (just like it was difficult parting with the likes of Hines, Potsie, Aaron, and Hokie a year ago), each of those guys may have a year or two of tread left on their tires, while we could have a decade or more of production from those younger guys.
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;534140]Is it worth sacrificing the likes of Hampton, Foote, Keisel, and maybe even Harrison and Troy in order to work out long term deals with guys like Lewis, Pouncey, and Wallace? Although it's painful to lose integral parts of multiple championship teams (just like it was difficult parting with the likes of Hines, Potsie, Aaron, and Hokie a year ago), each of those guys may have a year or two of tread left on their tires, while we could have a decade or more of production from those younger guys.[/QUOTE]
As I'm sure you well know, you don't have to sell me on the vurtue of getting younger players time on the field. It is the only way we can see what they can do and make informed decisions about keeping them or going in another direction.
I'd love for us to keep Wallace at the right price because I think we are going to need to score lots of points as we cut lose the old stalwarts from the defense that have big doallar contracts and poor performance on the field.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;534142]As I'm sure you well know, you don't have to sell me on the vurtue of getting younger players time on the field. It is the only way we can see what they can do and make informed decisions about keeping them or going in another direction.
I'd love for us to keep Wallace at the right price because I think we are going to need to score lots of points as we cut lose the old stalwarts from the defense that have big doallar contracts and poor performance on the field.[/QUOTE]
If you think the old stalwarts are performing poorly on the field, why do you think we will struggle more after getting rid of poor performers? Wouldn't eliminating poor performers improve performance?
[QUOTE=steelblood;534086]I say franchise him and negotiate briefly. If he won't sign long term for a reasonable amount (and I know he likely won't), trade him for a 2nd rounder. If we can't get that (and I'd think we would), trade him for a package of middle round picks (like a 3rd, 4th, and a 5th).[/QUOTE]
The one year franchise number isn't any easier to fit under the cap than the 8-9 million per year contract people are kicking around. For Mike Wallace to remain a Steelers regardless of his propensity to do so the Steelers are going to have to shed a lot of salary, renegotiate a lot of contracts, or have veteran players play for a lot less than they are currently due.
Pappy
[QUOTE=feltdizz;534116]playing devils advocate...
I wonder if letting Arians go was a mistake. Ben has taken less hits but he is still hurt (the worst on field injury of his career IMO) and our big plays aren't so big anymore.
Don't get me wrong... the offense is more efficient but we aren't scoring more or crushing teams this year like most expected. Injuries play a part but we were often injured with Arians as well.[/QUOTE]
It may or may not have been a mistake that's debatable, but what isn't debatable is the fact that in general the offense is still a middle of the road offense, it only took a different route to get to the middle of the pack than last year. Any team that has Haley or Arians is getting a highly qualified NFL offensive coordinator.
Pappy
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;534139]Well, there were posters on here wishing injury on the guy a few short days ago.[/QUOTE]
yup, and i still do
[QUOTE=squidkid;534165]yup, and i still do[/QUOTE]
just curious, why?
[QUOTE=squidkid;534165]yup, and i still do[/QUOTE]
Unless you want to solidify our picking in the first 15 picks of next years draft, that makes no sense whatsoever. We still have a hope to make the play offs so while I think Wallace has been an idiot throughout this contract process, I'm all for using Mike Wallace up as much as we can. Can't do that if he is on the sideline in a sweatsuit.
[QUOTE=Oviedo;534172]Unless you want to solidify our picking in the first 15 picks of next years draft, that makes no sense whatsoever. We still have a hope to make the play offs so while I think Wallace has been an idiot throughout this contract process, I'm all for using Mike Wallace up as much as we can. Can't do that if he is on the sideline in a sweatsuit.[/QUOTE]
i agree. i said as soon as we are out of the playoffs, although i really dont think he factors much into how we finish. he isnt doing much to help us win.
[QUOTE=squidkid;534186]i agree. i said as soon as we are out of the playoffs, although i really dont think he factors much into how we finish. he isnt doing much to help us win.[/QUOTE]
let's see, we beat KC 16-13 and Mike Wallace scored our only TD in that game.
nah, Wallace isn't doing much to help us win...
[QUOTE=squidkid;534165]yup, and i still do[/QUOTE]
And it's even more despicable (if that's even possible) that you still hold that stance now as opposed to it being just some sudden emotional in-the-moment reaction at the time. I don't wish injury on players on our hated rivals such as Ray Lewis or Tom Brady...never mind players on my own favorite team! Whatever, man...
[QUOTE=squidkid;534165]yup, and i still do[/QUOTE]
Verry classy post. And we belittle the Raven, Bengal, Brown fan for what they are.
His performance in this game is nauseating. Another assisted INT for Money.
hey look at the effort he gave today. let's give him more than 10+
his effort really deserves my respect and support. he cares about me and the team by giving it his all
everyone on a public discussion board should have their own opinion. What would be the point if this was not the case. It is deliberately wishing injury on a player that is bush league IMO in any forum.
I just dont know how you could watch the game and want to see your own get injured.
[QUOTE=squidkid;534571]hey look at the effort he gave today. let's give him more than 10+
his effort really deserves my respect and support. he cares about me and the team by giving it his all[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing - though he wants to be paid like one, he's not a difference maker like a Randy Moss or T.O., he's more complimentary & needs a strong WR underneath like AB to force defenses to play him more honest...think Isaac Bruce. Considering where he wants to be paid, & AB & Sanders' development, I don't think he's worth committing so much of our Salary Cap to, especially considering the situation come the off-season.
[QUOTE=jj28west;534627]everyone on a public discussion board should have their own opinion. What would be the point if this was not the case. It is deliberately wishing injury on a player that is bush league IMO in any forum.
I just dont know how you could watch the game and want to see your own get injured.[/QUOTE]
he's not 'my own'. he doesnt want to be steeler. he's not displaying the attributes that i expect out of 'my steelers'. i dont expect everyone to be superstars and not make mistakes, but when you purposely put forth no effort to help my team win, i dont give a **** what happens to you.