2013 Steelers Defense is at the Bottom Against the Run

We are ranked 29th in the league against the run. Casey Hampton may have been "retired" a little too soon. Steve McClendon may be strong, but he isnt playing NT the way we need him to, so this D can be productive. Offense is a big concern, but our run D is causing us to lose just as much. I haven't re-watched any games to evaluate McClendons performances, but it starts up front, so he must be losing the battle. Also, Vince Williams hasnt been lighting the world on fire, so we might have several concerns on run D.

What has anyone else seen from our run D?

big snack + aaron smith mixed in with a little keisel was perhaps the greatest down 3 in steeler history. NOTHING got through them and it allowed our LB's to do their stuff and our secondary to focus on defending the big play. These days we have to commit more to stopping the run - and not only has that now worked, it's opened up holes elsewhere.

I thought it was a passing league?

I think its more than the NT. Our O stinks so our D stays on the field... Foote was our QB on D, Hood isn't consistent, McClendon is one gap, Williams is trash right now... but we also aren't finishing tackles.

Again ... we have a personnel problem, not a schematic problem. It starts right in the middle of the defense.

[QUOTE=feltdizz;577642]I thought it was a passing league?

I think its more than the NT. Our O stinks so our D stays on the field... Foote was our QB on D, Hood isn't consistent, McClendon is one gap, Williams is trash right now... but we also aren't finishing tackles.[/QUOTE]

You're right about the missed tackles. If we were a better tackling D would that be enough?

Heres another thought, is the new D line objective the cause for our run D be so bad (rushing the QB more)? I think it is, although it's helping our pass D. What will Dick LeBeau do?

[QUOTE=SidSmythe;577643]Again ... we have a personnel problem, not a schematic problem. It starts right in the middle of the defense.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.
They were showing the "great innovations" show on NFLN, and I caught the part when they were talking Tampa 2. Tampa 2 was great in Tampa, because of Sapp, Brooks, Lynch and the rest. It was copied and tried in places like DET, and it failed miserably. Because of talent.

People on here rail against DL's scheme, but he11... put some stars on this D, and watch this scheme thrive. I'm sorry, I like Keisel too... but he's not a star. Timmons is not a star. Ike isn't a star. Clark is not a star. These are our best defensive players (along with Polamalu and Woodley), and while they are solid pros... none are stars. We've watched our stars walk out the door over the past couple years do to age (Harrison, Hampton), and we haven't replaced them.

[QUOTE=Shoe;577647]Agreed.
They were showing the "great innovations" show on NFLN, and I caught the part when they were talking Tampa 2. Tampa 2 was great in Tampa, because of Sapp, Brooks, Lynch and the rest. It was copied and tried in places like DET, and it failed miserably. Because of talent.

People on here rail against DL's scheme, but he11... put some stars on this D, and watch this scheme thrive. I'm sorry, I like Keisel too... but he's not a star. Timmons is not a star. Ike isn't a star. Clark is not a star. These are our best defensive players (along with Polamalu and Woodley), and while they are solid pros... none are stars. We've watched our stars walk out the door over the past couple years do to age (Harrison, Hampton), and we haven't replaced them.[/QUOTE]

In retrospect, we probably shoulda tried to keep Max and Hampton for another year and we might have gotten a bit better than 8-8 with healthy Troy and Woodley back. So many of these young players are just not cutting it yet and may never. And we didn't add any significant FAs a la Farrior, Clark, Bettis to help us out.

I hope something starts clicking next week. As bad as we are, we're not that bad. There's still too much talent on this team for 0-4. It doesn't make sense.

[QUOTE=flippy;577655]So many of these young players are just not cutting it yet and may never. [/QUOTE]

IMO the gap between our NT play in the past and now is huge. We have been getting pressure from the outside but it is easily avoided by the QB stepping up into the pocket. For most or all of the big runs against us this year, the RB crossed the line on the inside before bouncing outside. The problem is that nobody plugs the middle, and that is where a 6' 1", 360 lb mass of fat could come in handy. I don't think that Casey can get it done anymore, but I recognize that he did for many years.

[QUOTE=feltdizz;577642]I thought it was a passing league?

I think its more than the NT. Our O stinks so our D stays on the field... Foote was our QB on D, Hood isn't consistent, McClendon is one gap, Williams is trash right now... but we also aren't finishing tackles.[/QUOTE]

It is which is why we have seen four games of teams easily exploiting the cushion our CBs give them and march down the field on opening drives. This is what gives them the ability to force Timmons to play chase in coverage versus attacking the LOS. That then creates the ability to run.

[QUOTE=flippy;577655]In retrospect, we probably shoulda tried to keep Max and Hampton for another year and we might have gotten a bit better than 8-8 with healthy Troy and Woodley back. So many of these young players are just not cutting it yet and may never. And we didn't add any significant FAs a la Farrior, Clark, Bettis to help us out.

I hope something starts clicking next week. As bad as we are, we're not that bad. There's still too much talent on this team for 0-4. It doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. It was time to cut ties with guys like Hampton and Starks even last year. I do agree that this team is not 0-4, and [I]that [/I]is an indictment on the coaching staff and management (i.e. scouting, contracts) as much as it can be.

[QUOTE=flippy;577655]In retrospect, we probably shoulda tried to keep Max and Hampton for another year and we might have gotten a bit better than 8-8 with healthy Troy and Woodley back. So many of these young players are just not cutting it yet and may never. And we didn't add any significant FAs a la Farrior, Clark, Bettis to help us out.

I hope something starts clicking next week. As bad as we are, we're not that bad. There's still too much talent on this team for 0-4. It doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

Not buying it... first off we are broke and rarely use FA so that isn't a realistic option for improving our team.

Second... Starks looks horrible. Maybe he would elevate his game for Ben but I thimk he is done.

Third... the longer we keep old players the longer young guys get to chill on the sidelines and hide how bad they are on game day. How many times have we heard about a young guy tearing up practice and then we see them in a game and they look lost.

[QUOTE=feltdizz;577684]Not buying it... first off we are broke and rarely use FA so that isn't a realistic option for improving our team.

Second... Starks looks horrible. Maybe he would elevate his game for Ben but I thimk he is done.

Third... the longer we keep old players the longer young guys get to chill on the sidelines and hide how bad they are on game day. How many times have we heard about a young guy tearing up practice and then we see them in a game and they look lost.[/QUOTE]

On the flip side, it's looking like there's been a reason we've had to hold on to older players.

[QUOTE=flippy;577685]On the flip side, it's looking like there's been a reason we've had to hold on to older players.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=#00ff00]Us older people cost too much, way too expensive to keep around.[/COLOR];-);-);-)

[COLOR=#00ff00]Omar Khan used to be heralded as a genious for his cap work.
[/COLOR]

I think the problems with the run D start with McClendon and Hood. Everybody wondered last year why McClendon wasn't playing more. It turns out that it wasn't an irrational allegiance to veterans, but it was his lack of talent. The last time I remember a Steelers NT struggling this much was the year that KVO played NT before moving to DE. McClendon has proved that he is nothing more than a situational player.

Both McClendon and Hood have been easily controlled by one blocker. That is leaving the MLBers to take on guards, and the MLBers cannot get off the blocks. Vince Williams has been awful so far, and Timmons always seems to be getting blown out of a whole.

James Harrison is also a significant loss. His backside pursuit was amazing, in addition to his strength at the POA. I like Jarvis Jones, but he is not and will not be James Harrison.

The team has lost a lot of talent, and the younger guys aren't as good as the vets they replaced.

[QUOTE=phillyesq;577702]I think the problems with the run D start with McClendon and Hood. Everybody wondered last year why McClendon wasn't playing more. It turns out that it wasn't an irrational allegiance to veterans, but it was his lack of talent. The last time I remember a Steelers NT struggling this much was the year that KVO played NT before moving to DE. McClendon has proved that he is nothing more than a situational player.

Both McClendon and Hood have been easily controlled by one blocker. That is leaving the MLBers to take on guards, and the MLBers cannot get off the blocks. Vince Williams has been awful so far, and Timmons always seems to be getting blown out of a whole.

James Harrison is also a significant loss. His backside pursuit was amazing, in addition to his strength at the POA. I like Jarvis Jones, but he is not and will not be James Harrison.

The team has lost a lot of talent, and the younger guys aren't as good as the vets they replaced.[/QUOTE]

Chadman believes the truth of it is a mix of this post and Steeler-fan-in-TO's post.

The Steelers (and a number of fans...) said all last season that McLendon was playing well enough to be a full time starter. He's a disruptive force up the middle that has bulked up enough to hold the line, we were told.

Fact is, McLendon's play has been the complete opposite. He's regularly moved out of the way of the running back, if he doesn't take himself out of the way first, and the pocket surrounding the QB has not been in any danger of being penetrated, or even at the least, collapsed, by him. This has directly effected the ability of those around, and particularly behind him. Both Williams & Timmons have faced more 1 on 1 blocks with an OG than Chadman can ever remember the ILB's facing. Love it or hate it, LeBeau's defense needs those OL occupied so the LB's can shine. If the OL isn't having to double team our DL's, then the whole D falls apart- much like when philly recalled the KVO year at NT. Funnily enough, Chadman thinks a similar solution to what the Steelers did the next year might fix this group too- draft a real NT, move McLendon to Hood's DE spot.

Both Woodley and Jones are closing the edges of the pocket in pass protection, but because the pocket in front of the QB is so open, they are just stepping forward to avoid our OLB's. If our DL could collapse that pocket, then here's betting our sacks and turnovers would increase as a result.

[QUOTE=Chadman;577706]Chadman believes the truth of it is a mix of this post and Steeler-fan-in-TO's post.

The Steelers (and a number of fans...) said all last season that McLendon was playing well enough to be a full time starter. He's a disruptive force up the middle that has bulked up enough to hold the line, we were told.

Fact is, McLendon's play has been the complete opposite. He's regularly moved out of the way of the running back, if he doesn't take himself out of the way first, and the pocket surrounding the QB has not been in any danger of being penetrated, or even at the least, collapsed, by him. This has directly effected the ability of those around, and particularly behind him. Both Williams & Timmons have faced more 1 on 1 blocks with an OG than Chadman can ever remember the ILB's facing. Love it or hate it, LeBeau's defense needs those OL occupied so the LB's can shine. If the OL isn't having to double team our DL's, then the whole D falls apart- much like when philly recalled the KVO year at NT. Funnily enough, Chadman thinks a similar solution to what the Steelers did the next year might fix this group too- draft a real NT, move McLendon to Hood's DE spot.

Both Woodley and Jones are closing the edges of the pocket in pass protection, but because the pocket in front of the QB is so open, they are just stepping forward to avoid our OLB's. If our DL could collapse that pocket, then here's betting our sacks and turnovers would increase as a result.[/QUOTE]

You're right on Chadman. The DL is struggling. So what is the adjustment? Seems like we are just running out the same template, i.e. 10 yard cushions, etc. Now they have Troy wrestling with 300lb offensive linemen and running himself out of plays. If anything that makes a down field play easier for our opponents.

McClendon may just be good enough with his 'active play' to be on the field ahead of Fangupo, but his presence there turns out to be a detriment to our entire defense because he is not holding the line. Lets just get the big guy in there, I don't care if he makes a single tackle, and suit up Al Woods while we are at it.