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Willie PArker
[b]Stuffs per carry Rankings (stuffs mean 0 and/or negative gain carries) [/b]
1.Ronnie Brown Mia .050
2 Ron Dayne Hou .052
3 Kenton Keith Ind .058
4 Edgerrin James Ari .059
5 Jamal Lewis Cle .060
6 Adrian Peterson Chi .060
7 Earnest Graham TB .063
8 Derrick Ward NYG .064
9 Brandon Jacobs NYG .064
10 Marion Barber Dal .069
11 Chris Brown Ten .069
12 Frank Gore SF .073
13 LenDale White Ten .076
14 LaMont Jordan Oak .076
15 Aaron Stecker NO .078
16 Joseph Addai Ind .080
17 DeShaun Foster Car .081
18 Laurence Maroney NE .081
19 Justin Fargas Oak .081
20 Kenny Watson Cin .084
21 Brian Westbrook Phi .086
22 Travis Henry Den .090
23 Clinton Portis Was .092
24 Brian Leonard StL .093
25 Sammy Morris NE .094
26 Fred Taylor Jac .094
27 Willie Parker Pit .097
[b]Parker had the 27th worst Stuff percentage in 2007. Nearly 10% of his carries ended
in a stuff.[/b]
[b]Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more [/b]
1.Adrian Peterson Min 18.1%
2. Fred Taylor Jac 15.5%
3. LaDainian Tomlinson 13.9%
4. Brian Westbrook Phi 13.4%
5. Brandon Jacobs NYG 13.3%
6. Marion Barber Dal 13.2%
7. Maurice Jones-Drew 13.1%
8. Ryan Grant GB 12.7%
9 Jamal Lewis Cle 11%
10 Willis McGahee Bal 11%
11 Justin Fargas Oak 10.8%
12 Frank Gore SF 10.7%
13 Shaun AlexanderSea 10.6%
14 Joseph Addai Ind 10.3%
15 Willie Parker Pit 9.8%
[b]Some RB's have fewer long runs. but are more consistent play to play. They have
fewer stuffs.some Running backs have more long runs plays , but have more stuffs at the Line of scrimmage. Parker doesn't do anything especially well[/b].
[b]NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 [/b]
1 Brian Westbrook Phi 781
2 Willis McGahee Bal 772
3 Willie Parker Pit 752
4 Jamal Lewis Cle 715
5 Thomas Jones NYJ 678
6 Adrian Peterson Min 655
7 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 643
8 Clinton Portis Was 623
9t Edgerrin James Ari 615
9t LenDale White Ten 615
11 Fred Taylor Jac 614
12t Joseph Addai Ind 573
12t Brandon Jacobs NYG 573
14 Marshawn Lynch Buf 571
15 Steven Jackson StL 569
16 Marion Barber Dal 513
17 Frank Gore SF 478
18 Laurence Maroney NE 477
19 Earnest Graham TB 449
20 Justin Fargas Oak 448
[b]As you can see Parker had the 3rd most yards on 1st down in the league. But as
you will see below, the yards gained were due to the heavy amount of attempts, not
because he was ultra efficient on a per carry basis[/b].
[b]NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 [/b]
1 Jerious Norwood Atl 6.2
2 DeAngelo Williams Car 5.7
3 Maurice Jones-DrewJac 5.6
4 Brian Westbrook Phi 5.6
5 Marion Barber Dal 5.5
6 Brandon Jacobs NYG 5.5
7 Derrick Ward NYG 5.3
8 Adrian Peterson Min 5.2
9 Fred Taylor Jac 5.1
10 Selvin Young Den 5.0
11 Laurence Maroney NE 5.0
12 Ronnie Brown Mia 5.0
13 Willis McGahee Bal 4.9
14 Justin Fargas Oak 4.9
15 Jamal Lewis Cle 4.6
16 Steven Jackson StL 4.6
17 Kenny Watson Cin 4.5
18 Kevin Jones Det 4.5
19 Chester Taylor Min 4.4
20 Earnest Graham TB 4.3
21 Joeseph ADDai Ind 4.3
22 Willie Parker Pit 4.3
[b]Parker ranked 22nd in Yards per carry on 1st down. (for the record , he ranked 27th on 2nd down) [/b]
Note: If you break down the Steelers 3rd downs. over 50% of them were of third down
& 7 yards + or more. That was the 6 highest percentage in the league last
year. Also note that the Steelers ran theball on 1st and 2nd down more then all but
1 team in th NFL in 2007. Teams would just tee off on the QB as he would try to
complete 3rd and long.
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Re: Willie PArker
MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?
i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=birtikidis]MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?
i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.[/quote]
They all meet the mimimum Rushes requirement. ITs all based on percentage man.
If it were total yards, then yes, it would matter. But as long as you have the necessary carries to get an average, that average by and large does not change.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=birtikidis]MSM how many of those guys at the top of the ypc on 1st down are the starters?
i mean i only scanned the list and counted 6 non starters ahead of parker. and i'm sure that there's more than that. it's pretty telling that even LT isn't above parker.[/quote]
Lt had his worst year ever. But he made up for the stuffs with his runs of 10+ yards or more. Not to mention his receiving yards and his ability to find the endzone.
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Re: Willie PArker
More statistics without substantiation. Football is the ultimate team sport. Where in those RB rankings is the accountability of the O lines?
MSM - show us some O line rankings and stats. How does the Steelers '07 line rank in stuffs allowed or in all those other categories.
You always like to compare Parker to Ben when Parker is not to RBs what Ben is to QBs...no one is denying that. But the point remains that Parker [i]alone[/i] is not responsible for the decline of his stats. Stats tell part of the story, but they don't tell the [i]whole[/i] story.
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Re: Willie PArker
so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=frankthetank1]so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways[/quote]
It's funny that in the years that people thought that Bettis was finished, he had a lot of carries where he was hit in the backfield. When the o-line came together and he could actually hit the line running, he was more effective. Not that MSM is saying this, but it was said a lot on the other board, but I really can't see how so many people are ready to ditch WP, a guy who could have easily led the league in rushng yards last year, for an unproven rookie. Maybe Mendenhall will be that guy, but man.
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Re: Willie PArker
[color=gold]I noticed that Aaron Stecker is on your "Stuffs per carry Rankings" list in the 15th position. Stecker had 115 attempts last year. The Dump Truck, Davenport had 107 attemps last year and didn't crack the top 27. So what that tells me is Davenport had a HIGHER percentage of carries that he was stuffed on than Parker did. That in itself would lead me to believe that the O-line is the most important factor in this statistic ... not the running back.
What's even more interesting are some of the runners NOT on that list
LT - not there so he's worse than Parker
Adrian Peterson (Minn) - not there so he's worse than Parker
MJD (Jax goal line back) - not there so he's worse than Parker
Ryan Grant - not there so he's worse than Parker
Marshawn Lynch - not there so he's worse than Parker
Willis McGahee - not there so he's worse than Parker
Stephen Jackson - not there so he's worse than Parker
Kevin Jones - not there so he's worse than Parker
Chester Taylor - not there so he's worse than Parker
Jerious Norwood - not there so he's worse than Parker
Need I go on. It appears to me that some of the best backs in the league get stuffed more that Willie. I mean who would have thought Willie would be better than LT, AP and Stephen Jackson in this category? Evidently those guys can't run inside with power either. [/color]
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Re: Willie PArker
You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=proudpittsburgher][quote=frankthetank1]so msm your blaming the stuff percentage on parker? that stat is all on the o-line. how could it be any fault of any rb if he is hit behind the line of scrimage? im glad you posted that stat because i brought it up yesterday how there was an enormous ammount of carries he had with a d-lineman already in the backfield before or as the handoff was made. that is not parkers fault at all and it also affects his ypc avg tremendously. go ahead and keep blaming parker though. its funny how the o-line doesnt have nearly as much accountability in the run game, but if ben takes any hits its all on the o-line. it goes both ways[/quote]
It's funny that in the years that people thought that Bettis was finished, he had a lot of carries where he was hit in the backfield. When the o-line came together and he could actually hit the line running, he was more effective. Not that MSM is saying this, but it was said a lot on the other board, but I really can't see how so many people are ready to ditch WP, a guy who could have easily led the league in rushng yards last year, for an unproven rookie. Maybe Mendenhall will be that guy, but man.[/quote]
I totally agree with you. Lets see if the NFL will take back FWP's 75yd Td run in XL. In '06 FWP had what 9 tds? In '07 was it two? Look at the decay in the O line after Hartings left in '06. With what he had to work with up front last year, its remarkable he didn't suffer two broken legs. FWP may not be a "complete" back, but he has added much to the Steeler O over the past few seasons. I just watched the Jags/Steelers reg season game of '07 again. I'm glad FWP was on our team. IF he would have been around for the PO game, we might have won! :tt1 :tt1 :Clap
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Re: Willie PArker
It can be said that we could do better at most positions. Very few teams can make the statement that they couldn't do better at most positions. I just can't see us having this conversation about another back who has averaged 1300 yards over the past three years. Outside of LT, every back has limitations.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
And the Steelers agree with you. They wouldn't invest a first round pick to upgrade the position if they didn't agree.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
It's funny because the same mentality you accuse MSM of...is the same mentality you use to give Parker a free pass.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
[color=gold]Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...
You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.
Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher
Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".
Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers [/color]
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=ikestops85][quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
[color=gold]Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...
You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.
Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher
Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".
Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers [/color][/quote]
:Clap :Clap :Clap
MSM - :owned
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=ikestops85][quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
[color=gold]Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...
You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.
Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher
Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".
Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers [/color][/quote]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.
b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season
c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.
d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.
e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.
F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.
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Re: Willie PArker
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha
:Blah
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=stlrz d][quote=ikestops85][quote="Mr Smartmonies":3mvdorbv]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
[color=gold]Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...
You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.
Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher
Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".
Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers [/color][/quote]
:Clap :Clap :Clap
MSM - :owned[/quote:3mvdorbv]
:roll:
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies][quote=ikestops85][quote="Mr Smartmonies":ix8fxm7m]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
[color=gold]Sorry, I don't mean to be unfair but generally you seem to emphasize that WP has a problem getting positive yardage. That is why I focused my response on that part of your post. You want us to consider your entire post ... fine. Here goes ...
You listed 4 tables. First let's hope we can all agree that LT is the premier back in the league ... or at least in the top 2. Let's compare Willie to LT and see who ranks higher in the 4 categories YOU chose to highlight.
Stuffs per carry Rankings - Willie ranks higher
Ranking percentage of Rushes of 10+ yards or more - LT ranks higher
NFL Leaders Rushing Yards on 1st & 10 - Willie ranks higher
NFL Leaders Yds/Carry, 1st Down & 10 - Willie ranks higher
Now it seems to me that Willie beats LT in 3 out of the 4 categories you chose to show the deficiencies in Willie's game. Why MSM, you sly ole dog ... you set out all along to prove Willie is the best back in the league. :tt2 I gotta hand it to you :Bow ... I never thought that was true but you are starting to convince me. I always looked at it as Willie is a "star" runningback in the league and is better than 98% of the other backs. However he is not a "superstar".
Now after last year I think the powers that be within the steeler organization realized that we have very little at that position after Willie. None of the other backs stepped up to the plate. That's probably why we keep hearing the comment that we have no depth at running back. Now comes draft day and the steelers are on the clock. Lo and behold they look at the draft board and see Mendy still on it. Here is a back that has the possiblity of becoming a superstar. He has the tools to excel as a speed back, a power back and a receiving back. Even if he doesn't he still would make a great tandem back with Willie. They could save some wear and tear on each others body. Even though the O-line is probably the biggest priority all the 1st round players we liked at that position have been taken so let's take Mendy. IF the one big year he had in college translates to the NFL we might have something extra special here. So they hand in the card with the name 'Rashard Mendenhall' written on it. :Cheers [/color][/quote]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.
b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season
c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.
d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.
e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.
F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.[/quote:ix8fxm7m]
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it....BYOTCHES! :lol:
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies][quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mr Smartmonies":2er534ks]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote:2er534ks]
You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.
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Re: Willie PArker
Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.
We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.
We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)
I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=ShawnMedGuy][quote=Mr Smartmonies][quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mr Smartmonies":2lbyftca]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote]
You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.[/quote:2lbyftca]
Funny how perspectives can be different...you see someone who gets it. I see two someones (MSM, SMG) who don't. ;)
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back.
b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season
c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19.
d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd.
e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards.
F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. [size=7][b]Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. [/b][/size]Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.[/quote]
Concentrating on Ben instead of the running game (i.e. Willie Parker), I don't think is the way to beat the Steelers. The team that has had the best success against the Steelers in our division has been the Ravens. The ravens are also the team that FWP has been ineffective against...
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Re: Willie PArker
why compare fwp's stats or any rb's stats to lt's? whats the point, no rb is as close to as good as lt.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Chemsteel]Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.
We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.
We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)
I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.[/quote]
A guy that probably knows his football better than anyone on these boards...saying Parker is not a receiving threat. Thank you.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=stlrz d][quote=ShawnMedGuy][quote="Mr Smartmonies":30iobawu][quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mr Smartmonies":30iobawu]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote]
You make me weep tears of joy...one person who gets it.[/quote:30iobawu]
Funny how perspectives can be different...you see someone who gets it. I see two someones (MSM, SMG) who don't. ;)[/quote:30iobawu]
:lol:
Well...thats because you smoke crack. I mean anyone who disagrees with me...MUST be on drugs. :mrgreen:
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=ShawnMedGuy][quote=Chemsteel]Kirby Wilson is an advocate of RB screens and RB safety valves. He was unsuccessful the last several years in convincing the opposition that Willie Parker could catch the ball on screens over either shoulder. The opponents DL one gapped every down.
We utilized fairly wide sets or spacing on the offensive line last year and when we ran on first down Parker faced too much defensive penetration. When we tightened our line spacing the LB's boxed Willie knowing he wasn't going to catch the ball and they fell back playing over/under with the CB's making it more difficult for Hines and Holmes.
We suffered due to the lack of a complete set of plays that utilized screens and dump offs. If Willie could catch the ball over either shoulder he may have lead the league in all categories. (You can probably conceptualize the reason for drafting Mendenhall.)
I can forsee an offense this year with two back sets. It could be Willie and Davis, Willie and Mendenhall, or Davis and Mendenhall, Russell and etc. We could have Heath/Spaeth in motion with passes to the vacated strong side. There will be less WR floods to one side or the other. If we go to two TE sets then Mendenhall or Davis in the backfield. Look for Sweed to play a big role in this set.[/quote]
A guy that probably knows his football better than anyone on these boards...saying Parker is not a receiving threat. Thank you.[/quote]
If Parker was a receiving threat he would have Marshall Faulk like numbers and 40-50 catches a season. It's not like the coaches saw he was a great receiver out of the backfield and just decided not to use him. He just isn't good at that part of the game.
The TEs will be a bigger part of our success this season. We have a great one and a good one. Throw the ball to them early and often.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies][quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote="Mr Smartmonies":2puxmgdp]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
nonsense. Ben had 32 TD passes and 105 percent passer rating behind the pussies.
And his Yards meant something. They were for 3rd downs and TD's. He elevated his game despite the line. Parker can't do that. He can't break tackles. He doesn't possess great vision. He gets way to many carrries. He's the most over rated player in football.[/quote:2puxmgdp]
Didn't Parker almost lead the league in rushing yardage last season behind the, um, pussies? And he still broke off long runs despite havign to carry the load at running back with so many carries, so you can look at that in a couple of ways as well. Look, I'm not going to pull 1,000 stats and post them because, well, it's not that important to me and I just don't have the time, but this is getting crazy. It really boils down to this, If people want Willie Parker out of the starters role in leiu of a guy who hasn;t played a down in the NFL, well, then the crack pipe has been passed one time too many. That being said, this conversation is light-years ahead of the WP conversations on the other board. People can actually <<wait for it>> agree to disagree on here.
:o
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Re: Willie PArker
Also, i think a lot of the angst on these boards comes from the fact that we are tryign to create the perfect ballplayer on these threads. Sure willie has break away speed, but if only he could break the tackles . . . Sure, ben makes plays downfield, but if only he could hit his running backs more . . . I wish Ben would hold onto the ball longer and check down . . . I wish Ben would get rid of the ball sooner . . . Everyones a friggen expert. How about this, Man, I really wish Terry Bradshaw wouldn't have been so injury prone and interception prone, a good quarterback would have won 10 super bowls with that defense. :roll:
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Re: Willie PArker
Personally, I like #22 better ........................... :wink:
[img]http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8237/steelgalbz5ac6.jpg[/img]
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Re: Willie PArker
LOL...no we just want a running back who can do more than break off 60 yarders. There is alot more to this thing called running the ball than bursting through wide open holes for TDs.
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Re: Willie PArker
All of this Willie Parker talk helped me remember a time when the Browns
had drafted RB Willie Green. After the first two games where he like
completely sucked, I went on Browns Message board and started saying
he was a bust. I acted real serious, and was fairly clever in not looking
like a troll. Man , were they pissed. :)
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back. [/quote]
[color=gold]I don't believe I ever suggested you want to get rid of Willie. He is a situational back ... the situation he seems to do well in is "Starter". Are there more "complete" backs in the league? Most definitely. Is Willie a top 10 back in the league? Again, most definitely.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season [/quote]
[color=gold]Really? I know we must have different criteria on how to measure running backs and how successful their seasons are. For running backs I will use rushing yards as probably the most important criteria. Certainly not the only criteria but the most important. Given that 2007 was not his worst season. He didn't do as well in 2001 and 2004. He put up basically the same numbers in 2005.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19. [/quote]
[color=gold]YOU put out the criteria with your 4 charts ... not me. By the way, can you post the link to that data? Thanks. I can use it on the bengals smack board. [/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd. [/quote]
[color=gold]Once again ... it was YOU who picked the criteria.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards. [/quote]
[color=gold]See answer to "d" above.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.[/quote]
[color=gold]The last I looked the vast majority of teams play the steelers with 8 in the box. Why? Do you think it has something to do with our running game? Because of Ben's success last year I think that will change and it only bodes well for our running game.
What it comes down to is you picked criteria to make Willie look bad. I used that same criteria to show Willie was better than the league's premier back. Now you want to change the criteria. Look, what this comes down to is we all hope Mendy comes in and becomes a superstar. The difference is if he doesn't and Willie remains the #1 back some of us will still be happy and others, like yourself, won't.[/color]
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=BURGH86STEEL][quote=Mr Smartmonies]You guys all want to focus on the Stuffs and not anything else I posted.
And because of that your all missing the point. Yes , Tomlinson had few more stuffs
than parker. But he made up for those stuffs with a higher percentage of 10+ yard runs. Not to mention receiving Yards yards. Peterson is another one. Look at his 10+ yards run percentage. If Parker was breaking that many 10+ yard runs per his carries, we wouldn't concern ourselves as much with the stuffs. Read the whole post Fella's. Don't shoot the messenger. The Fact is Parker doesn't do anything especially well. Not on 1st and 2nd down. Not in the red zone. Not as a pass receiving threat. Not on long runs. He gets stuffed alot. We can do better at that postion.[/quote]
The problem is you selectively picked stats to prove a point. You did not take other things into consideration. For instance, as some others have mentioned you blame Parker and not the Oline. When Ben takes a sack its the Oline and protection.[/quote]
Maybe Ben is getting killed because we don't have a threat to run. Teams know they can send 4 or 5 to stop Willie and drop back 6 into coverage. This eliminates any quick throws for Ben plus it's harder for receivers to get open when they are double teamed. Ben is then forced to hold the ball longer thus getting sacked. I think the O-Line is fine and so is Ben. You will see a much improved team upfront once we establish a legitimate threat in the backfield. As long as Willie is back there we aint going anywhere fast unless it's to the outside.
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Re: Willie PArker
I'm now completely convinced some of you don't watch the games. Opposing defenses only sending 4 or 5 to stop the run while dropping the rest into coverage? :HeadBanger
Once again Ike, nicely done! :Clap
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=ikestops85][quote=Mr Smartmonies]
a) I never said get rid of wilie. I said he is a situational back. [/quote]
[color=gold]I don't believe I ever suggested you want to get rid of Willie. He is a situational back ... the situation he seems to do well in is "Starter". Are there more "complete" backs in the league? Most definitely. Is Willie a top 10 back in the league? Again, most definitely.[/color]
[quote="Mr Smartmonies":2wj2lg07]
b) your comparing LT's worst season to Parkers' best season [/quote]
[color=gold]Really? I know we must have different criteria on how to measure running backs and how successful their seasons are. For running backs I will use rushing yards as probably the most important criteria. Certainly not the only criteria but the most important. Given that 2007 was not his worst season. He didn't do as well in 2001 and 2004. He put up basically the same numbers in 2005.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
c) LT has 61 TD's last 3 years. Parker 19. [/quote]
[color=gold]YOU put out the criteria with your 4 charts ... not me. By the way, can you post the link to that data? Thanks. I can use it on the bengals smack board. [/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
d) Tomlinson made up for his poor 1st down carries. On 2nd down he averaged 4.6 YPC. Parker fell even further to 3.9. LT was in the top 10 on 2nd down. Parker raned 27th on 2nd. [/quote]
[color=gold]Once again ... it was YOU who picked the criteria.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
e) Receving Yards - LT has 3 times the amount of Receving yards. [/quote]
[color=gold]See answer to "d" above.[/color]
[quote=Mr Smartmonies]
F) Every team focuses on LT. Gameplans are drawn up focusing on LT. Coaches lose sleep over LT. Teams are more concerned with Ben then they are parker at this point in their careers. Lt finds the Endzone. Parker wouldn't know what it is if you landed a plane there.[/quote]
[color=gold]The last I looked the vast majority of teams play the steelers with 8 in the box. Why? Do you think it has something to do with our running game? Because of Ben's success last year I think that will change and it only bodes well for our running game.
What it comes down to is you picked criteria to make Willie look bad. I used that same criteria to show Willie was better than the league's premier back. Now you want to change the criteria. Look, what this comes down to is we all hope Mendy comes in and becomes a superstar. The difference is if he doesn't and Willie remains the #1 back some of us will still be happy and others, like yourself, won't.[/color][/quote:2wj2lg07]
Ok, from top to bottom.
If you want to judge a RB just on Over all rushing yards. then I can not argue with you.
But if you would like to compare RB's on Yardage per carry, then Parker is Flat average at best. The over all yards he racked up, came from the extreme amount of attempts per game. Consider that Peterson had nearly as many yards and about 100 less attempts. I measure things on efficiency, because I want to know the true worth of a player. Over all yards means little. I guess you probably like Jon Kitna becuase he passes for a lot of yards. I'm not going to explain this any further.
I did not post these stats to compare LT. If you want to compare backs, thats why I posted the other stats. I said in the original post that certain backs will have more stuffs and more longer runs, while other backs will have fewer stuffs and fewer long runs.
Did you read that? Tomlinson had 2 more stuffs on the season then Parker. There was not much difference. But Tomlinson is near the top in the league in rushes 10+ yards.
Not to mention his receiving stats, TD's scored. Etc.
Finally, Ben Roethlisberger had the best 1st down passing rating, yards per attempt, completion percentage , in 2004. If it took teams 4 years to find out he is pretty good, then that is sad. Roethlisberger saw a TON of cover 2 last year. Teams are only concerned about the Steeler running game because they run the ball a lot. Not becuase their all that good at it. Its about efficiency.
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Re: Willie PArker
MSM didn't we run the ball 62% of the time in '04? I would hope that Ben took advantage of the instances where he could throw the ball on 1st down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, teams didn't take Ben seriously until THIS season. Why? 2004 they figured he'd find ways to lose, being a rookie and all. that and the fact that we ran the ball 62% of the time.
2005 again, he didn't have a stellar year. he was still learning but getting better.
2006 face plant off car, appendectomy, and concussion made teams think maybe he was playing it safe. plus the fact that he was sacked 40+ times made people think that maybe he was rattled.
2007 first few games teams focused on the running game. in fact I would say, HALF the season they focused on the running game. Then when teams figured out that he was on fire, they adjusted and that's why we started off hot and finished cold.
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Re: Willie PArker
[quote=birtikidis]MSM didn't we run the ball 62% of the time in '04? I would hope that Ben took advantage of the instances where he could throw the ball on 1st down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, teams didn't take Ben seriously until THIS season. Why? 2004 they figured he'd find ways to lose, being a rookie and all. that and the fact that we ran the ball 62% of the time.
2005 again, he didn't have a stellar year. he was still learning but getting better.
2006 face plant off car, appendectomy, and concussion made teams think maybe he was playing it safe. plus the fact that he was sacked 40+ times made people think that maybe he was rattled.
2007 first few games teams focused on the running game. in fact I would say, HALF the season they focused on the running game. Then when teams figured out that he was on fire, they adjusted and that's why we started off hot and finished cold.[/quote]
Birt, i have been thru this with you before. Your just plain wrong. Your wrong. We ran the ball so much on 2004, because BEN WAS ****ING SPECATACULAR ON 1ST DOWN. WE GOT HUGE LEADS IN THE FIRST HALF. AND THEN COWHER SHUT IT THE FU CK DOWN AND BETTIS HAD 500 FUC KING YARDS IN THE 4TH QTR THAT YEAR.
BEN HOLDS THE 2ND HIGHEST MOTHER ****ING ROAD PASSER RATING IN PLAYOFF ****ING HISTORY.
IF TEAMS DIDN'T ****ING KNOW BY HIS 35 GAME OF HIS CAREER THAT HE NEEDEDTO BE STOPPED THEN THEY ARE A BUNCH OF STUPID ****S.
STOP WITH THE NONSENSE ALREADY.
2005 HE DIDN'T HAVE A STELLER YEAR? HE AVERAGE 8.9 FUC KING YARDS PER ATTEMPT AND IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT ITS IMPORTANCE , YOU WOULDN'T BE WASTING MY TIME WITH STUPID SH IT LIKE THAT.