two things I saw last night that solidified my views on off season personnel moves:
#1.) Not having Max Starks at Left Tackle is killing us.
#2.) Emmanuel Sanders is a legitimate #2 receiver, and certainly NOT a "Dime a dozen" type of player.
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two things I saw last night that solidified my views on off season personnel moves:
#1.) Not having Max Starks at Left Tackle is killing us.
#2.) Emmanuel Sanders is a legitimate #2 receiver, and certainly NOT a "Dime a dozen" type of player.
Max Starkes was on our Line when he gave up over 200 sacks in less then 4 years. I hardly call that All World! Max had a ton of issues as well. He was ripped apart by speed rushers. Saw Dwight Freeny get 5 sacks on us in ONE game...All coming against Starkes. So please stop acting like he all Dat. As for Sanders, he will get his chance. But he is not a CLEAR proven # 2 WR. Dude has done next to nothing in 3 years.
We will see. Max may have struggled early in his career, but he was our best lineman the last two years he was on the squad. How many sacks did he give up in the last two years?
[QUOTE=Ernie;568375]We will see. Max may have struggled early in his career, but he was our best lineman the last two years he was on the squad. How many sacks did he give up in the last two years?[/QUOTE]
Saying Max was our best OL the past 2 years is like saying that chick on Mike & Molly is better looking then Roseann Barr!!
Ok... you've got me curious.. Which steeler offensive lineman/men were better than starks the last two years?
[QUOTE=Ernie;568378]Ok... you've got me curious.. Which steeler offensive lineman/men were better than starks the last two years?[/QUOTE]
He's not disagreeing with you that Starks was the best. He's saying that's not saying much based on the line-men we've had (as in he was the best of a bad lot). Whether you you agree or disagree with that is the question.
Max may have been our best OL the past several years, but on our Line that is not saying much. And Max had alot of other Issues. He was a great Road grader of a Blocker, and a AVERAGE pass protector at best. In fact, once he gets used to it, I KNOW Adams will be a better Pass protector at LT then Starkes ever was.
For the record - the Steelers will miss Starks this year unless Adams and Gilbert make dramatic 180s from the play in the first 2 preseason games. Supposedly they were worried Max was too slow to handle the new zone blocking schemes. Kind of hilarious when frozen molasses has moved faster than those 2 on some of their blocking attempts.
[QUOTE=Ghost;568382]For the record - the Steelers will miss Starks this year unless Adams and Gilbert make dramatic 180s from the play in the first 2 preseason games. Supposedly they were worried Max was too slow to handle the new zone blocking schemes. Kind of hilarious when frozen molasses has moved faster than those 2 on some of their blocking attempts.[/QUOTE]
Adams, yes. Gilbert doing a 180 and being a decent OL is as likely as [B]Lindsey Lohan [/B]becoming The National spokesperson
for sobriety!! :Cheers
[QUOTE=Ghost;568380]He's not disagreeing with you that Starks was the best. He's saying that's not saying much based on the line-men we've had (as in he was the best of a bad lot). Whether you you agree or disagree with that is the question.[/QUOTE]
Well I guess I should find out who the chick is on mike and molly... lol. might help me understand the comparison a little better. Max was a good run blocker... and, certainly "Average" in pass protection is a hell of alot better than what we have right now.
pouncey has been better the last few years. that said i would have brought back max for another year.
let adams start on right side for a year
[SIZE=7][COLOR=#ffff00][B]Max Starks is not athletic enough to execute zone blocking schemes at a consistently high level. He is not coming back, period.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568405]pouncey has been better the last few years. that said i would have brought back max for another year.
let adams start on right side for a year[/QUOTE]
IMO POuncey has been underwhelming and overhyped the past two years. He got abused last night.
[quote=dbr96a;568409][size=7][color=#ffff00][b]max starks is not athletic enough to execute zone blocking schemes at a consistently high level. He is not coming back, period.[/b][/color][/size][/quote]
yet he's still 10 times better than any other tackle on the squad.... Period
[QUOTE=Oviedo;568417]IMO POuncey has been underwhelming and overhyped the past two years. He got abused last night.[/QUOTE]
Badly abused
[QUOTE=sedatedsteelerfan;568377]Saying Max was our best OL the past 2 years is like saying that chick on Mike & Molly is better looking then Roseann Barr!![/QUOTE]
[COLOR=#00ff00]I don't watch those shows, so ...
But have at it and be entertained.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=sedatedsteelerfan;568383]Adams, yes. Gilbert doing a 180 and being a decent OL is as likely as [B]Lindsey Lohan [/B]becoming The National spokesperson
for sobriety!! :Cheers[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=#00ff00]Gilbert will fall and hurt somebody if he does a 180.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=DukieBoy;568438][COLOR=#00ff00]I don't watch those shows, so ...
But have at it and be entertained.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I think he's saying our Oline is like fat chicks. Max is this:
[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=yg5PqphiiQOVxM&tbnid=isbGJOI7wSZu_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvedge.net%2F%3Fp%3D9121&ei=9wwUUr-9M7jG4AOoqIHIBQ&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGawWA-L2-OHrkqYrBI3B8VxU72yw&ust=1377132126492959"][IMG]http://www.tvedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Melissa_McCarthy_MikeandMolly.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
And the rest of our OLine is this:
[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=fvOdTreOOExtfM&tbnid=LahS-L03M6jwzM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oprah.com%2Foprahshow%2FRoseanne-Barr-Oprah-Show-Retrospective&ei=Jw0UUs7wGvPl4APB_IB4&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGfjsE_ONvLU9iBWav-625ztJm_Vw&ust=1377132184572762"][IMG]http://static.oprah.com/images/tows/201102/20110209-roseanne-barr-slideshow-1-600x411.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
I saw that we don't have a single backup OL besides beachum that is an NFL caliber football player.
whoever said john malecki is a "proven commodity" should hit up a NA meeting.
But Joe Long comes from a football family!
Can Molly play Center?
[QUOTE=flippy;568441]I think he's saying our Oline is like fat chicks. Max is this:
[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=yg5PqphiiQOVxM&tbnid=isbGJOI7wSZu_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvedge.net%2F%3Fp%3D9121&ei=9wwUUr-9M7jG4AOoqIHIBQ&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGawWA-L2-OHrkqYrBI3B8VxU72yw&ust=1377132126492959"][IMG]http://www.tvedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Melissa_McCarthy_MikeandMolly.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
And the rest of our OLine is this:
[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=fvOdTreOOExtfM&tbnid=LahS-L03M6jwzM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oprah.com%2Foprahshow%2FRoseanne-Barr-Oprah-Show-Retrospective&ei=Jw0UUs7wGvPl4APB_IB4&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGfjsE_ONvLU9iBWav-625ztJm_Vw&ust=1377132184572762"][IMG]http://static.oprah.com/images/tows/201102/20110209-roseanne-barr-slideshow-1-600x411.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=#00ff00]Sign 'em up, both ! Imagine the entertainment. And Roseanne can sing the National Anthem.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Eddie Spaghetti;568442]I saw that we don't have a single backup OL besides beachum that is an NFL caliber football player.
whoever said john malecki is a "proven commodity" should hit up a NA meeting.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
And that goes double for whomever hated the Landry Jones pick...
[QUOTE=Oviedo;568417]IMO POuncey has been underwhelming and overhyped the past two years. He got abused last night.[/QUOTE]
over hyped maybe a bit. still better then anyone on our line the last 3 years. thats what was asked.
i dont think the writers that vote for all pro teams judge players on preseason performances
[QUOTE=Slapstick;568465]I agree.
And that goes double for whomever hated the Landry Jones pick...[/QUOTE]
you really can't see the difference there can you?
BB has said several times that this is the best O line he has had since he has been here.
During the talk with Pam Oliver during the game, he also repeated the 2013 party line that everyone is on the same page and thrilled with the new offensive double D strategy. BB-[aka Big Ben, Bad Ben, Baghdad Ben]
Ben did not comment on the TE situation. He was not asked. But I am sure he would have said that was all peachy and rosy as well.
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568467]over hyped maybe a bit. still better then anyone on our line the last 3 years. thats what was asked.
i dont think the writers that vote for all pro teams judge players on preseason performances[/QUOTE]
I agree... even though he was manhandled a few times last night. Sometimes a good player lines up against a guy who has an edge, great first step, extra motivation, etc...
I'm not worried about Pouncey..... yet.
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568467]over hyped maybe a bit. still better then anyone on our line the last 3 years. thats what was asked.
i dont think the writers that vote for all pro teams judge players on preseason performances[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree. Starks was by far the best offensive lineman on our team the last 2 years. Pouncey was probably better his rookie year, which was his only good year. I'm not saying that Max is a HOFer. Just that he was the best we had and the team kept dumping him. In fact, the year he came back around game 3 I thought he should have been the team's MVP. He stabilized a line that was in complete shambles.
The writers that vote for the All Pro team may not judge players on preseason performances but they do vote on reputation and hype ... not necessarily how the player performs.
[QUOTE=ikestops85;568513]I have to disagree. Starks was by far the best offensive lineman on our team the last 2 years. Pouncey was probably better his rookie year, which was his only good year. I'm not saying that Max is a HOFer. Just that he was the best we had and the team kept dumping him. In fact, the year he came back around game 3 I thought he should have been the team's MVP. He stabilized a line that was in complete shambles.
The writers that vote for the All Pro team may not judge players on preseason performances but they do vote on reputation and hype ... not necessarily how the player performs.[/QUOTE]
who from last years 1st and 2nd all pro teams are on there from reputation and hype?
[QUOTE=feltdizz;568491]I agree... even though he was manhandled a few times last night. Sometimes a good player lines up against a guy who has an edge, great first step, extra motivation, etc...
I'm not worried about Pouncey..... yet.[/QUOTE]
he beat him pretty cleanly on the sack. but the 1st tackle he had where they zeroed in on the match up, the skins DL was already lined up to pouncey's right with the run going to the right. thats not an easy play for any center to get on the other side of him. the new scheme calls for him to cut that guy but perhaps pouncey wants to wait till the regular season if there's a chance he's going to inflict an injury on someone.
DL's dont like that crap to begin with, im sure they appreciate it even less when the games dont count
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568589]who from last years 1st and 2nd all pro teams are on there from reputation and hype?[/QUOTE]
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning over Arron Rodgers
Tony Gonzales over Heath Miller who's one of the only complete TEs that put up good stats
Cant remember who else was on the team.
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568589]who from last years 1st and 2nd all pro teams are on there from reputation and hype?[/QUOTE]
Vonta Leach
Jason Witten
Logan Mankins
Maurkice Pouncey
Julius Peppers
Champ Bailey
IMO none of these players deserved to make the All Pro team last year.
[QUOTE=flippy;568605]Tom Brady and Peyton Manning over Arron Rodgers
Tony Gonzales over Heath Miller who's one of the only complete TEs that put up good stats
Cant remember who else was on the team.[/QUOTE]
manning was 1st team, rodgers was 2nd
overall heath is a better TE but the better the stats you have the better chances making the all pro team.
witten?
no way. He deserved it. Didn't have like 113 catches?
yeah, he had a great year.
but with gronk and graham, you can make a case. i would have left gonzo off
you're probably right.
at that point it does get pretty subjective.
I knew witten was going to be a beast coming out of UT. He was very under utilized in knoxville.
[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;568589]who from last years 1st and 2nd all pro teams are on there from reputation and hype?[/QUOTE]
I know one guy is overhyped. PFF:
Maurkice Pouncey, C, Pittsburgh Steelers
PFF Rating: +1.8
PFF Conference Ranking: 12th
Analysis: Steelers fans will be up in arms about this (as they always are) and accuse us of hating on the younger Pouncey. Nothing could be further from the case. It’s just when you compare Pouncey to his peers there’s absolutely no way any player with a sane mind could pick him over some of the excellent centers in the AFC. That doesn’t mean Pouncey is a bad player, but just because we’re told he should be a once in a generation player doesn’t make it so. You only need to watch him to see how little impact he has on games, while players like Chris Myers are creating the kind of consistent running lanes that sees your team finish with two guys close to or above the 1,000 yard rushing mark.
Key Fact: Pouncey isn’t even the best Pouncey in our eyes. His grade is inferior to that of his twin brother Mike Pouncey (+2.9).
Before we dismiss the above because it is not popular, think for a moment.
How is his impact on the game manifest?
Not as a rookie when he DID make noticable plays, the last two seasons?
Can we run behind him with ANY sort of success? Do YOU have confidence in those runs?
Did we see him getting out in front of people RECENTLY as you SAW him as a rookie?
If YOU NEVER WATCHED THIS TEAM and knew nothing of his rep, would you say at any point last year "wow that guy is a great blocker"? As bad as he can be I DID notice Willie Colon at times when we ran well dominate people. I have not had that feeling from Pouncey since he was a rookie.
[QUOTE=Captain Lemming;568635]I know one guy is overhyped. PFF:
Maurkice Pouncey, C, Pittsburgh Steelers
PFF Rating: +1.8
PFF Conference Ranking: 12th
Analysis: Steelers fans will be up in arms about this (as they always are) and accuse us of hating on the younger Pouncey. Nothing could be further from the case. It’s just when you compare Pouncey to his peers there’s absolutely no way any player with a sane mind could pick him over some of the excellent centers in the AFC. That doesn’t mean Pouncey is a bad player, but just because we’re told he should be a once in a generation player doesn’t make it so. You only need to watch him to see how little impact he has on games, while players like Chris Myers are creating the kind of consistent running lanes that sees your team finish with two guys close to or above the 1,000 yard rushing mark.
Key Fact: Pouncey isn’t even the best Pouncey in our eyes. His grade is inferior to that of his twin brother Mike Pouncey (+2.9).
Before we dismiss the above because it is not popular, think for a moment.
How is his impact on the game manifest?
Not as a rookie when he DID make noticable plays, the last two seasons?
Can we run behind him with ANY sort of success? Do YOU have confidence in those runs?
Did we see him getting out in front of people RECENTLY as you SAW him as a rookie?
If YOU NEVER WATCHED THIS TEAM and knew nothing of his rep, would you say at any point last year "wow that guy is a great blocker"? As bad as he can be I DID notice Willie Colon at times when we ran well dominate people. I have not had that feeling from Pouncey since he was a rookie.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say he's dominant, but he is quick. He's often a step and a half off the ball before anyone else moves. I know he's got a first mover's advantage because he's snapping, but he's extra quick off the ball. And he does do a good job of getting to blocks on the second level. His achilles heel is handling bigger DT/NTs. He doesn't have the strength that guys like Webster and Dawson did. But I do think he's got Dawson's quickness.
Also he plays in a division with some really big and athletic DTs. I think the AFCN is probably one of the tougher divisions for a C. There's some big boys he sees regularly.
[QUOTE=flippy;568641]I wouldn't say he's dominant, but he is quick. He's often a step and a half off the ball before anyone else moves. I know he's got a first mover's advantage because he's snapping, but he's extra quick off the ball. And he does do a good job of getting to blocks on the second level. His achilles heel is handling bigger DT/NTs. He doesn't have the strength that guys like Webster and Dawson did. But I do think he's got Dawson's quickness.
Also he plays in a division with some really big and athletic DTs. I think the AFCN is probably one of the tougher divisions for a C. There's some big boys he sees regularly.[/QUOTE]
Flippy, you are describing his "skills" which I agree with. He has talent.
Did he PLAY like a probowler the last two seasons?
For example he IS quick off the ball. But He is not creating a lane with that quickness what does it matter.
You mention his "getting to the second level". We SAW THAT in his rookie season alot, which built his rep. He has this ability that others do not have.
How much did you see that LAST SEASON?
In the few games we ran well, I saw Colon creating HUGE lanes. Pouncey was OK but nothing special. When Colon got hurt our interior run game was DONE.
I do agree that our Division is tough for centers, but if you are "the best" elite opposition will not "own" you all the time.
I am sorry but you cannot have a horrid interior run game and "deserve" post season awards as a stinkin center.
Pouncey is resting on the laurels established during his rookie year. He hasn't improved and is far from dominant. Factor in his ridiculous support of Hernandez and you have a guy I'm willing to let walk when his deal is up if he doesn't improve.