Salute to service

[QUOTE]. Steelers to Honor Military Veterans During "Salute to Service" Campaign On Monday NightPosted Nov 9, 2012

[url]http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-To-Honor-Military-Veterans-During-Salute-to-Service-Campaign-On-Monday-Night/9fd1ff13-892b-47da-8531-85564219e135[/url]


1st-IN-GOAL Promotion Encourages Fans To Arrive Early For Great Giveaways
The Pittsburgh Steelers are encouraging fans to arrive early to enjoy the many activities surrounding Monday night’s game at Heinz Field against the Kansas City Chiefs. Kickoff is set for 8:30 p.m. and all gates will open at 6:30 p.m.


Monday night’s matchup will mark the Steelers “Salute to Service” game in which a number of events and activities will take place in honoring Veterans Day and the military. The following is a list of the many events for Monday night in honor of Veterans Day:
The USAA will perform a stadium-wide ‘Card Stunt’ in which all fans will take part in at the beginning of the National Anthem. Fans will be prompted to hold up the cards on cue.
There will be a military flyover immediately following the National Anthem. It is being conducted in honor of Lt. Col. Christopher “Otis” Raible, an Irwin native who was killed in Afghanistan in September of this year.
Zambelli Fireworks will be on display prior to kickoff and following the military flyover.
On-field presentation honoring veterans including a Pearl Harbor survivor, a European World War II veteran and a Tuskegee Airman, Korean War veteran, Vietnam War veteran, Desert Storm/Desert Shield War veteran, Iraq War veteran and Afghanistan War veteran.
The honored veterans will stand on the Steelers sidelines during the National Anthem.
Camouflage banners will be visible throughout Heinz Field.
A commemorative coin will be used for the coin toss in honor of Veterans Day.
Boy scouts will be holding a field flag during the National Anthem, the USAA Card Stunt and the Flyover.
The Military Funeral Honor Guard of the VFW Post 1810 in Brentwood will serve as Monday’s Color Guard.
The Steelers 1st-IN-GOAL promotion, sponsored by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, will allow fans who enter Heinz Field early on game days the opportunity to win exclusive prizes from the team. The first 25,000 fans who enter the stadium will be given scratch-off cards at all gates as well as suite and club entrances. Fans will have the opportunity to win pre-game field passes and the chance to participate in the pre-game Terrible Towel Twirl on the Steelers’ sideline just prior to kickoff, Steelers gift cards, Terrible Towels, overnight stays at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort and Spa, Stage AE concert tickets, Nike replica jersey, one month subscription to PG site, Redbox rental from Giant Eagle, Prometheus DVD, Official 59Fifty football cap from New Era, Sport Clips haircuts, fountain drinks from Pepsi and GetGo, Augustine’s pizzas, Silverstar Meats hot dogs, McCafe Frappes and Sausage McMuffins from McDonald’s, Grilled Stickies from Eat’n Park, appetizers from Andora restaurant and Sabra products.


Fans are encouraged to stop by Stage AE prior to entering the stadium to participate in the Official Tailgate Zone of the Pittsburgh Steelers as many great prizes will be given away. Admission is free and the doors will open at 4 p.m. There will be a pig roast hosted by WDVE Morning Show personality Bill Crawford, and Radio Tokyo will perform prior to kickoff outside of Stage AE.


At Monday’s game, there will be a Salvation Army Red Kettles set up at Heinz Field to donate and help in the disaster relief from Hurricane Sandy. A total of 29 Kettles will be on site.


The Steelers are participating all season in the “Let’s Tackle Recycling” campaign. At every Steelers home game, the Sports & Exhibition Authority (SEA) and its partners are collecting aluminum cans, glass containers and plastic bottles and cups at tailgating parties in the parking lots outside of Heinz Field. The “Let’s Tackle Recycling” campaign is sponsored by the SEA in partnership with Heinz Field, Alco Parking, Greenstar Recycling, Three Rivers Power Sweep and the PRC.


The following are additional highlights for fans for Monday’s game:
McKayla Maroney, who is an Olympic Gold medalist and part of the ‘US Fab 5’, will lead this week’s Terrible Towel Twirl along with Andre L. Brown, who was the winner of this week’s “My Pittsburgh Steelers” fan contest, the Post-Gazette’s Fan of the Game, and 1st-IN-GOAL pre-game field pass winners.
WDVE and the Steelers Radio Network will be live at Stage AE for their pre-game shows.
No Bad JuJu will perform in the FedEx Great Hall prior to kickoff and The Gingerbeards will perform on the Main Concourse.
Eden’s Edge, an up-and-coming country group, will perform on the field during pregame and will sing the National Anthem.
Pittsburgh’s own, Rusted Root, will perform on the field at halftime [/QUOTE]




Thanks to all who have served or are serving

Make us honor the troops - fine. But the cause and effect they are looking for is if we honor the troops, we then have a tough time speaking out against the wars they are in, no matter how obvious it is that we are STARTING wars that have NOTHING to do with keeping us safe or free. I can't support wars of Imperialism. As Americans, we are supposed to loath those kind of invasions and occupations - that is how we grew up. And now, here we are as the invading aggressors. It's awful. We are supposed to protect the weak, not invent wars with them.

[IMG]http://www.victorytabernaclecog.com/draft_lens1898280module8737547photo_SupportOurTroops.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=lloydroid;532232]Make us honor the troops - fine. But the cause and effect they are looking for is if we honor the troops, we then have a tough time speaking out against the wars they are in, no matter how obvious it is that we are STARTING wars that have NOTHING to do with keeping us safe or free. I can't support wars of Imperialism. As Americans, we are supposed to loath those kind of invasions and occupations - that is how we grew up. And now, here we are as the invading aggressors. It's awful. We are supposed to protect the weak, not invent wars with them.[/QUOTE]

Make you honor the troops?

Now here we are as the invading aggressors?

WTF are you talking about?

How dare you allow your ill-informed political views to stain the honor we pay to those who have served. We all have the right to question the motives and logic in sending our troops into harms' way, but what friggin' injust war are you talking about?

Iraq?

As a former soldier, I also condemn the invasion of Iraq. We used the attack on our soil as a cover for nefarious political agendas. There is no getting around that fact, but it was 9 friggin' years ago when that travesty was imposed on our military. Why would any honorable person bring that up?

Afghanistan?

A just deployment of our military forces if there ever was one. Bin Laden was harbored there and it was a breeding ground for those who would wage Jihad against us and the West.

Regardless of these campaigns or any other military action you may be referring to, the political decisions of our elected leaders bear no consequence on the tribute we pay to those who have served.

I get that this is not a Steelers or NFL-related topic of discussion, but I felt compelled to respond here in an attempt to get you to reconsider your stance on this topic. Stand at attention, take your hat off and honor those who have put their life on the line to give you the life you have.

Nothing else matters but that.

[QUOTE=Flasteel;532238]Stand at attention, take your hat off and honor those who have put their life on the line to give you the life you have.

Nothing else matters but that.[/QUOTE]

That about sums it up. :Clap

[QUOTE=lloydroid;532232]Make us honor the troops - fine. But the cause and effect they are looking for is if we honor the troops, we then have a tough time speaking out against the wars they are in, no matter how obvious it is that we are STARTING wars that have NOTHING to do with keeping us safe or free. I can't support wars of Imperialism. As Americans, we are supposed to loath those kind of invasions and occupations - that is how we grew up. And now, here we are as the invading aggressors. It's awful. We are supposed to protect the weak, not invent wars with them.[/QUOTE]
No one is making you support the war. This thread is to honor the people in the Military if you can't do that please feel free not to post in this thread.

I think it's fair for Lloydroid to question this. If we have to make a decision to go to war to protect US citizens, that's a challenging decision that we should try to avoid at all costs. But we end up spending seemingly infinite dollars on nation building. Military spend should be cut by 90%. We can't afford to borrow money from China to build infrastructure for other countries. It's not pragmatic. It's not practical. Quite frankly it's just senseless.

And in a sense, I agree with Lloydroid in that honoring the troops is a way to divert our attention from the real issues with the gov't. If our attention is placed on supporting the troops, we lose focus on the fact that we have way too many troops to begin with. Not the troops fault of course. But this creates a virtuous cycle of recruitment of additional troops when we honor and thank existing troops.

You could go to the other extreme and ask, don't we already honor the troops enough by paying them, giving them free housing, medical coverage, paying for their college, giving them job training, retirement benefits, etc. You could argue that socioeconomic issues play a bigger role in men and women choosing military service rather than this sense of duty we try to pretend is the case when we give thanks.

And we could fix many of the socioeconomic issues if we spent less money on the military and nation building and these kids parents had jobs and they had better education and other choices.

And maybe that would lead to only the people in the military for the sense of duty. And our collective thanks would be more genuine rather than a faux diversion that makes us feel good.

To a degree, the best thanks we can give to our troops is to question how we use them. I see speaking up for what we think is right as a reflection of a man's true sense of caring for the troops.

At the end of the day, is it better to thank or to actually care?

[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;532240]That about sums it up. :Clap[/QUOTE]

Yup. It's a small gesture considering the scope of the sacrifice, but saying thank you, even if just by removing your hat for a moment, is the least you can do.

It's a shame that a thread like this is hijacked by injecting politics into it.

Politics and veterans will always be connected in the sense that in one way or another, politics are connected to pretty much everything in life.

But there is not a single soldier out there who ever started any war, just or unjust, here or anywhere else in the world. Politics and politicians start wars. Soldiers, who become veterans, fight them.

Veterans are to be thanked because they sacrifice so much. That fact has nothing to do with politics.

I support our troops...

I do not support war in any way, shape or form...

It is very easy to do one without doing the other...

[QUOTE=flippy;532249]

You could go to the other extreme and ask, don't we already honor the troops enough by paying them, giving them free housing, medical coverage, paying for their college, giving them job training, retirement benefits, etc. You could argue that socioeconomic issues play a bigger role in men and women choosing military service rather than this sense of duty we try to pretend is the case when we give thanks.

[/QUOTE]
We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.

[QUOTE=fordfixer;532259]We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.[/QUOTE]

Kids sign up for the money/opportunity. It's a great option for those that want to better themselves but can't afford to go to college. If we gave them nothing, no one would sign up unless we went to a draft.

In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.

[QUOTE=fordfixer;532259]We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to be forced to blindly think every person who "serves" deserves great adulation and hero worship. Most, yes. All? No way. Do the Marines who threw that puppy off a cliff deserver glory? Do the guys who slaughtered innocent women, children, old men in wheel chairs deserve to be viewed as heroes? Hell no. The reality is, many who serve are doing so because they had no better way than to make a living and joined purely for that reason, not because they are heroes who love their country. I pay homage to the "greatest generation" who fought in WWII, but virtually every other war after that were wars fought to empower and further richen the elite at the great expense to the people, including Americans. That isn't the troops' fault, but I don't have to pretend that the recent wars had ANYTHING to do with our freedom. They had NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING.

[QUOTE=flippy;532260]Kids sign up for the money/opportunity. It's a great option for those that want to better themselves but can't afford to go to college. If we gave them nothing, no one would sign up unless we went to a draft.

In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.[/QUOTE]

Well said. I love when people use their brain.

[QUOTE]Make you honor the troops?

Now here we are as the invading aggressors?

WTF are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

Gee, I don't know. How about Iraq? They were no threat to us. The people there are worse off than they were with Saddam. They told us we had to invade there because they were a threat. That was a lie. We were told we should invade there because we would be delivering a better life to the people there. That was a complete lie. Before we invaded 20% lived in poverty. Today, 50% live in poverty. We have screwed that country and it's people over and those who so sought that war knew it all along. Afghanistan? WTF are we doing there? What good have we done? NONE.


[QUOTE]How dare you allow your ill-informed political views to stain the honor we pay to those who have served. We all have the right to question the motives and logic in sending our troops into harms' way, but what friggin' injust war are you talking about? [/QUOTE]

I just told you and the new, unjust war is coming up in Iran. They pose no threat. They don't even have a nuke weapon program at all, and even if we did, who are we to say they aren't allowed to have one? We, of over 8,000 nukes are lecturing others about having nukes? We, who say we need to keep the region "balanced" but allowed/created Israel's 200 plus nukes? Is that what we call "balanced?" That's hardly balanced, it's the opposite.


[QUOTE]Iraq?

As a former soldier, I also condemn the invasion of Iraq. We used the attack on our soil as a cover for nefarious political agendas. There is no getting around that fact, but it was 9 friggin' years ago when that travesty was imposed on our military. Why would any honorable person bring that up?[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't any thinking person bring it up? The people are still suffering mightily today, both Iraqis and Americans. If you don't remember history you are failed to repeat it. What? You think the appropriate thing would be to forget that the immoral war that killed 1 million - mostly innocent - people? That's how you think we should live? What is wrong with you. Do you have the ability to form logical thought?

[QUOTE]Afghanistan?

A just deployment of our military forces if there ever was one. Bin Laden was harbored there and it was a breeding ground for those who would wage Jihad against us and the West.[/QUOTE]

If you choose to believe those fairly tales, be my guest, but you are living a lie. If that is OK with you, then go with it. I choose to actually form independent thought.
[QUOTE]
Regardless of these campaigns or any other military action you may be referring to, the political decisions of our elected leaders bear no consequence on the tribute we pay to those who have served.[/QUOTE]

I already explained that.

[QUOTE]I get that this is not a Steelers or NFL-related topic of discussion, but I felt compelled to respond here in an attempt to get you to reconsider your stance on this topic. Stand at attention, take your hat off and honor those who have put their life on the line to give you the life you have. [/QUOTE]

I will honor those who deserve it, but not everyone in the military qualifies. Unless you think we should pay homage to those who machine gun down little girls and old men in wheel chairs, or Marines who throw puppies of a cliff.

[QUOTE=lloydroid;532267]
I will honor those who deserve it, but not everyone in the military qualifies. Unless you think we should pay homage to those who machine gun down little girls and old men in wheel chairs, or Marines who throw puppies of a cliff.[/QUOTE]

I see. Allow the exceptions to take something deserved away from the millions who serve with honor...

The vast, vast majority of troops serve our country honorably...for whatever their reasons for enlisting might be, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

Whether a war is determined by you to be unjust or not, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

[QUOTE=Slapstick;532268]I see. Allow the exceptions to take something deserved away from the millions who serve with honor...

The vast, vast majority of troops serve our country honorably...for whatever their reasons for enlisting might be, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

Whether a war is determined by you to be unjust or not, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...[/QUOTE]

There is that "serve" word; that is generally not even true. Most join for $ and opportunities to better their lives - which is a good thing - but let's not pretend that every person signs up to "serve their country" as the main motive. That just isn't true. The establishment pushes this message so as to get more people to sign up to kill others. If we make it full of glory, more will sign up. How many would sign up without giving them the benefits we do? How many? And yet we have it pounded in our heads that everyone in the military is "serving the country." It would be more accurate if we truly described who they were serving: mega bankers and corporations. That is who benefits from these wars, not the people of any of the countries involved. Tell me: How have the American PEOPLE benefit from the Iraq war? How have the Iraqi PEOPLE benefited from it? Nada. Oh but the bankers making up the Federal Reserve, and their bedfellows, have benefited greatly. I wonder who made sure the war happened in the first place? Gee, I wonder who pulled those strings? HMmm, maybe the people who greatly prospered from it? Just guessing.

Yea, you want to know how the world really works? Who are these wars created by and benefit? Learn about this dude. Don't be so naive.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CofEbxtIxI[/url]

[QUOTE=lloydroid;532272]Yea, you want to know how the world really works? Who are these wars created by and benefit? Learn about this dude. Don't be so naive.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not naive, dude...

The point isn't about who you think "pulls the strings"...

The point is to honor the people who actually perfrom their duties...

[QUOTE]There is that "serve" word; that is generally not even true.[/QUOTE]

Who are you to determine this?

[QUOTE=flippy;532260]
In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying you're wrong - but all I can tell you is: my father is a small business owner that was very successful. I wouldn't call him rich as we think of it today - but in our small town his income was in the top 1%. I didn't pay for college. I joined the Air Force because I was looking for a challenge and as a child of the 80's I had a strong sense of patriotism that began with Reagan in 1980. I was literally excited the day I turned 18 and went to the post office to fill out my selective service card. Of all the men and women I served with, I can't recall a single instance of any of them saying they were in the air force because they had no choice. They were all there because they wanted to be there. Now, I also recognize as a flight crew we were probably composed of individuals that had perspectives that may not have been common. I agree the airman who was tasked with emptying the $hitter may not have had the same level of appreciation as officers like myself, or my professional NCO's who served as flight engineers and loadmasters. I wasn't recruited into the air force. I sought it out. I wasn't promised anything except an opportunity to be put in situations that would challenge me and create life long memories. I can't or won't speak for the other services, but this is not the era of vietnam. There is no draft. The men and women I served with were proud, not reluctant volunteers. The men and women I served with did not join because it was their only option - for many it was simply a GREAT option.

are there men and women serving because they come from poverty and have/had no choice? I'm sure. My experience however is those are rare cases and as I said above, I can't recall a single instance over my entire career where someone admitted such circumstances as their reason for signing up.

of course, I was in the air force.

maybe you were talking about the army.........:tt1:tt1:tt1

(sorry, couldn't resist).

[QUOTE=Starlifter;532289]I'm not saying you're wrong - but all I can tell you is: my father is a small business owner that was very successful. I wouldn't call him rich as we think of it today - but in our small town his income was in the top 1%. I didn't pay for college. I joined the Air Force because I was looking for a challenge and as a child of the 80's I had a strong sense of patriotism that began with Reagan in 1980. I was literally excited the day I turned 18 and went to the post office to fill out my selective service card. Of all the men and women I served with, I can't recall a single instance of any of them saying they were in the air force because they had no choice. They were all there because they wanted to be there. Now, I also recognize as a flight crew we were probably composed of individuals that had perspectives that may not have been common. I agree the airman who was tasked with emptying the $hitter may not have had the same level of appreciation as officers like myself, or my professional NCO's who served as flight engineers and loadmasters. I wasn't recruited into the air force. I sought it out. I wasn't promised anything except an opportunity to be put in situations that would challenge me and create life long memories. I can't or won't speak for the other services, but this is not the era of vietnam. There is no draft. The men and women I served with were proud, not reluctant volunteers. The men and women I served with did not join because it was their only option - for many it was simply a GREAT option.

are there men and women serving because they come from poverty and have/had no choice? I'm sure. My experience however is those are rare cases and as I said above, I can't recall a single instance over my entire career where someone admitted such circumstances as their reason for signing up.

of course, I was in the air force.

maybe you were talking about the army.........:tt1:tt1:tt1

(sorry, couldn't resist).[/QUOTE]
Well said and I agree except the last part about the Army but I would not expect any more from a "wingnut"...... :-) And thank you for serving

Flip & Llyod,
You two can hide behind your little philosophical arguments all you want, but your position sickens me as an American. How neither of you can embrace our veterans on Veteran's Day shows a complete lack of respect.

No defending your position on this day.

[QUOTE=Flasteel;532291]Flip & Llyod,
You two can hide behind your little philosophical arguments all you want, but your position sickens me as an American. How neither of you can embrace our veterans on Veteran's Day shows a complete lack of respect.

No defending your position on this day.[/QUOTE]

So, if our assertions were so flawed, how come you couldn't refute them in any way other than just general ad hominem attacks, which are considered completely invalid by anyone with a modicum of intelligence. And you know nothing about me to make such a general assessment. I probably have spent more $ supporting out troops than most have. How many care packages did most of you send to Iraq for the troops? And I don't mean just giving money to some other organization, but go out, and find out what they needed most, physically buy the supplies, package them in a box and go to the post office and send it out. How many times did most of you do that? How many times have you given $ to orgs. like the disabled veteran groups and things of that nature. Oh, and a magnet on the back of your car is hardly true support. Words are cheap. And this doodle noodle here: You actually think we shouldn't bring up Iraq why again? That story and war isn't even over yet but you think no one should even bring it up? We got some genius going on up in here.

The thread has been moved to the general discussion forum, since its not Steeler related at all. We have many veterans on the board and I would ask in this one instance on veterans day that if you don't have something nice to say then please don't say it. If you want to start a thread not honoring veterans on veterans day that is your prerogative, this thread was to simply honor those that serve or have served in the military. Please honor them, say nothing or start another thread.

The redirect link will only last an hour, FYI

Pappy

[QUOTE=Starlifter;532289]
maybe you were talking about the army.........:tt1:tt1:tt1

(sorry, couldn't resist).[/QUOTE]

Nice one. :smile:

I'm not trying to stereotype. Just by the demographics, it supports that the middle class is the typical profile. I'm sure everyone had differing reasons for enrolling. Some feel a sense of duty. Others view it as a job. And it's probably different in different eras from the times of the Korean War and Vietnam to the current wars.

I remember when I was 17 and graduating high school, there were no wars. And I was relatively poor growing up. And I remember talking to my buddies about enlisting (and a lot of my friends did). Some wanted to travel. Others were sold on the idea of getting college paid for. I had one buddy that joined the Air Force because he wanted to fly planes. At that time it really just was a career option to all of us. The cold war was over. The world was at peace for the most part.

I know for a fact many friends are glad to have enrolled and gained a ton out of the experience and got things out of life they otherwise wouldn't have likely achieved.

I now have friends that have kids that are enlisting. In this crazier world we live in now, I think it's a completely different decision. Now we're at war. Young adults are now coming of age after remembering 9/11 in their early life. There's more that goes into the decision. But at the end of the day, I just view it as a career path for kids.

You either get a job, go to college, or join the military. It's just one of 3 options. And everyone has to decide which is best for them.

I'm glad there are people that choose this as a profession. Just as I'm glad some are police officers, teachers, bankers, builders, homemakers, cooks, entertainers, whatever. As long as everyone is doing the best they can and contributing to the world in whatever way that they're best suited, I say great.

I'm not a big fan of how we use men and women in the military for political purpose. But like many have said, that's not the individuals fault. They're just doing the best they can like the rest of us.

Of all places, I heard on ESPN today that the last living person from WWI has passed and now there are no more survivors from that war.

[QUOTE=Flasteel;532291]Flip & Llyod,
You two can hide behind your little philosophical arguments all you want, but your position sickens me as an American. How neither of you can embrace our veterans on Veteran's Day shows a complete lack of respect.

No defending your position on this day.[/QUOTE]

Veterans Day was originally Armistice Day and it was intended to support the cause of world peace. Soldiers fought and died in WWI to protect our freedom/liberty. And everything they fought for is at risk in the world we live in today. Eventually Armistice day was extended out to all Veterans.

Questioning the gov't, the reason for war, the use of people's lives, etc. shows complete concern for our military.

Maybe a different way to look at it is this. We individual say we're thankful for our men and women of service. But collectively we vote for political parties and candidates that use our soldiers as pawns in wars over political games that don't show proper respect to the lives of men and women in service. Why do we sit back and allow this to happen.

If the historic significance of this day is to promote world peace, then maybe the best way we can honor our service folks is to have conversations about living up to the standard of this day.

We're probably further from world peace today than we were at the beginning of WWI. That's pretty messed up when you really think about it.

Sorry that sickens you. It's sad. It's unfortunate. We should collectively strive for better.

[QUOTE=flippy;532299]Veterans Day was originally Armistice Day and it was intended to support the cause of world peace. Soldiers fought and died in WWI to protect our freedom/liberty. And everything they fought for is at risk in the world we live in today. Eventually Armistice day was extended out to all Veterans.

Questioning the gov't, the reason for war, the use of people's lives, etc. shows complete concern for our military.

Maybe a different way to look at it is this. We individual say we're thankful for our men and women of service. But collectively we vote for political parties and candidates that use our soldiers as pawns in wars over political games that don't show proper respect to the lives of men and women in service. Why do we sit back and allow this to happen.

If the historic significance of this day is to promote world peace, then maybe the best way we can honor our service folks is to have conversations about living up to the standard of this day.

We're probably further from world peace today than we were at the beginning of WWI. That's pretty messed up when you really think about it.

Sorry that sickens you. It's sad. It's unfortunate. We should collectively strive for better.[/QUOTE]

Well said. I will further add that to NOT question every war they throw our troops into is a great DISSERVICE to our troops. Just blindly going along with every war they send them into is like spitting in the face of every veteran there is.