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The offense is not productive in the first quarter because they waste too much time trying to establish the run, instead of using the pass to set up the run like every other team with an elite QB does.
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To me, it's this simple, hand the ball to Ben and get out of the way. Ben can run the offense as well as Manning, Brady, etc if they just let him. He's every bit as good as them, but with the ability to extend a play and make a silk purse out of sow's ear when necessary.
Pappy
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[QUOTE=papillon;584628]To me, it's this simple, hand the ball to Ben and get out of the way. Ben can run the offense as well as Manning, Brady, etc if they just let him. He's every bit as good as them, but with the ability to extend a play and make a silk purse out of sow's ear when necessary.
Pappy[/QUOTE]
that's a bit of a stretch pappy. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are two of the best QB's of all time. I've never heard anyone refer to Ben as being at their level.
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[QUOTE=Ernie;584629]that's a bit of a stretch pappy. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are two of the best QB's of all time. I've never heard anyone refer to Ben as being at their level.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you Ernie, but Pap's point is still valid, even if you take the part about his being in the same group as those two. Who knows if he might not improve to that level if given the same latitude that they have been given.
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you said: [QUOTE=Ernie;584629]that's a bit of a stretch pappy. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are two of the best QB's of all time. I've never heard anyone refer to Ben as being at their level.[/QUOTE]
I heard: [QUOTE=Ernie;584629]that's a bit of a stretch. [B]Tom Brady[/B] and [B]Ben Roethlisberger[/B] are two of the 3 active QB's with multiple Super Bowl Rings. His playoff record says Peyton shouldn't be referred to as being at their level.[/QUOTE]
I get your point, but I sure do get tired of people forgetting the one area that Ben outdoes Peyton in. The one area that ultimately matters I mean. And truthfully, does he even "HAVE" to be Peyton or Tom in order to call a good game from the no huddle? because from what I see, Ben does a heckuva job just working the no huddle the way he does it. I wouldn't change a bit about that part of his game. But, I'd sure as heck start letting him do it either a) more often or b) a little earlier in winnable games.
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If you're going to hold Haley predominately responsible for the slow starts, then shouldn't he also get all the credit for the 2nd half adjustments that have led to our consistent 2nd half surges?
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[QUOTE=Shoe;584639]If you're going to hold Haley predominately responsible for the slow starts, then shouldn't he also get all the credit for the 2nd half adjustments that have led to our consistent 2nd half surges?[/QUOTE]
Sure, I'll give him credit for ealizing that Ben is the best football player on offense and handing him the game plan and the no-huddle and telling him to go to work, of course, it has only taken 28 games to realize this fact. If he wasn't always trying to fit a square peg in a round hole or at least it seems that way, it wouldn't be as bad. He has some innovative plays and use of personnel, but running just for thae sake of keeping balance in an offense when its been nearly impossible to gain yards seems a bit obtuse to me.
The last few games as the O-line has gelled and the run game has picked up, but not until later in the game which is okay, because, hopefully, by then you are protecting a lead. Unfortunately, the Steelers haven't been protecting many leads, so, you have to give the ball to Ben and let him do waht he does to get a lead, nor give away drives in the first quarter.
Pappy
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[QUOTE=Ernie;584629]that's a bit of a stretch pappy. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are two of the best QB's of all time. I've never heard anyone refer to Ben as being at their level.[/QUOTE]
It's a stretch only because Ben is unorthodox in his style, Ben isn't a classic drop back passer, the pundits, fans and analysts hate his style. Ben will never give up on a play and sometimes that is a bad thing, but when it comes right down to it, Ben understands the game the same as those guys and can run an offense without any help from the sideline. He just doesn't have the number of yards and because if his stye has more INTs.
I wish there was a way to put Manning and/or Brady behind our offensive line for the first four games of this season and see how well they would do, with a collapsing pocket after a couple seconds. Each of them hates pressure from a front 7, Ben seems to thrive on it in a weird kind of way.
Pappy
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[QUOTE=papillon;584645]It's a stretch only because Ben is unorthodox in his style, Ben isn't a classic drop back passer, the pundits, fans and analysts hate his style. Ben will never give up on a play and sometimes that is a bad thing, but when it comes right down to it, Ben understands the game the same as those guys and can run an offense without any help from the sideline. He just doesn't have the number of yards and because if his stye has more INTs.
I wish there was a way to put Manning and/or Brady behind our offensive line for the first four games of this season and see how well they would do, with a collapsing pocket after a couple seconds. Each of them hates pressure from a front 7, Ben seems to thrive on it in a weird kind of way.
Pappy[/QUOTE]
Pappy,
I agree with Ben needs to have more control of the offense (like Manning and Brady). The fact that he has a different playing style than Manning and Brady does not convince me that he is as good... The problem you get into with Ben (when comparing him to Brady/Manning) is that he does not go through his progressions any where near the speed of those two. It's not even close. As a result, a lot of those sacks that Ben takes would not happen with Brady or Manning because the ball would already have been thrown (with the other two).
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[QUOTE=papillon;584643]Sure, I'll give him credit for ealizing that Ben is the best football player on offense and handing him the game plan and the no-huddle and telling him to go to work, of course, it has only taken 28 games to realize this fact. If he wasn't always trying to fit a square peg in a round hole or at least it seems that way, it wouldn't be as bad. He has some innovative plays and use of personnel, but running just for thae sake of keeping balance in an offense when its been nearly impossible to gain yards seems a bit obtuse to me.
The last few games as the O-line has gelled and the run game has picked up, but not until later in the game which is okay, because, hopefully, by then you are protecting a lead. Unfortunately, the Steelers haven't been protecting many leads, so, you have to give the ball to Ben and let him do waht he does to get a lead, nor give away drives in the first quarter.
Pappy[/QUOTE]
Pappy,
You are making large assumptions here.
First of all, you're overly simplifying when it comes to Ben and Haley. Does Ben play in the first half? You can't blame Haley for everything that doesn't happen in the first half, and then not give credit (besides saying he simply rolls out the football in the 2nd half). That is ridiculous.
Secondly, you talk about putting Manning/Brady* behind our line in the first month of the season. At his age, Manning probably wouldn't last, eventually breaking down. But I've never seen Manning [I]not excel[/I], as a regular season QB, for a four-game stretch. The guy is a machine, with uncanny command and great anticipation (something Ben doesn't do in their league. Guys like Manning, Brady* don't take sacks because they throw before a WR even breaks open). As for Brady*, I hate him. But the guy is steering a 7-3 ship with: no Gronk for a month, no Hernandez, no Welker (that is probably 250 catches he's missing)--and he continues to win!
The reason you never think that these guys play behind a line as garbage as ours, is that they make their line look like they block better. Before a lineman can get beat, the ball is gone!
He11, Mike Adams might be a passable NFL o-lineman playing with DEN or NE*.
