-
The Truth!!
This just isn't a very good football team. And it starts from the top. The decision to bring in Haley as the coordinator, and ask Ben to fit what he does into Haley's system, was a huge mistake. I said it when Haley was hired...his lack of never playing any football at any level was going to be what it is. A major disconnect with the players he is coaching. The management of the Steelers made a huge mistake asking their franchise QB to change his style and fit what Haley runs. It was suppose to keep Ben healthy. To protect him. To get rid of the ball quicker. Well it hasn't worked. Ben is being hit just as much as he ever has. Then to think that this team could run the football behind a line that isn’t built to run the football is another mistake this management has made. Look at the line. They have 4 guys who are generally smaller than the guys they are trying to block. David DeCastro is getting abused. The only O-lineman with some size, is Foster. Adams, Gilbert, DeCastro, and even Pouncey are all built to pass block more so than run block. And they don’t even do that well.
Then to put all your marbles into a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] round RB (Bell), as if he is going to save your team is ridiculous.
This team has two play makers on the entire team. Troy Polamalu and Ben Roethlisberger. To get rid of Ben’s only playmaker ( Mike Wallace), was a mistake regardless of what Steeler fans thought of him. Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders are decent receivers at best. Neither one of them are play makers. Neither one of them can find the end zone. And to continue to try and stretch the field with these two, when neither of them can get separation, is ridiculous. Why do they insist on throwing the deep pass to Antonio Brown? He cannot get the needed separation for that. Makes no sense.
Who’s idea was it for Cameron Heyward to lose weight? We get on players all the time for them showing up out of shape, why does Cameron Heyward get a break? He is not suppose to be a pass rusher. He is suppose to be a run stuffer/gap plugger. Now at his current weight, he isnt going to stuff anything. But it isn’t his fault. It is managements fault because their defensive coordinator has gotten so far away from the 3-4 zone blitz. LeBeau was quoted as saying he wanted more of a pass rush from his D-line this year. Why? That goes completely away from the whole 3-4 zone blitz scheme. He now wants a pass rush from the front 3 and his OLB drop into coverage more than they go after the QB. Look at last night’s game. Hardly any pass rush what so ever on Andy Dalton. And they couldn’t stop the run either. LeBeau, as great as he’s been, as fallen in love with trying to be creative and as a result he has gotten away from what his 3-4 zone blitz is suppose to be. It is sad. This isn’t working the way he is running this defense. He is now allowing opposing teams to dictate what he runs. Can you imagine Aaron Smith showing up to camp 15-20lbs lighter, and being ask to go get the QB? Makes no sense. Standing up Heyward or Keisel and even having them stand up outside of the tackles is mind boggling. Once in a while as a wrinkle is one thing but to change the scope of your 3-4 defense is ridiculous. Plain and simple, LeBeau is allowing teams ( and the league), to dictate what he does on defense. He is no longer running a 3-4 zone blitz at it's core.
This team has gone as far as it can under Mike Tomlin. Not being a good football team is one thing but to also lose its toughness is hard to swallow. This would have never happened under Bill Cohwer. The Steelers need to get him back as their head coach. He will regain the identity of this franchise. Whenever his teams were bad, he guaranteed in his press conference’s that he would get it right. And every time he did.
If this team is headed for a re-building ( and I see no way they aren’t), then trading Ben in the offseason is something that has to be considered. A Herschel Walker type trade. Getting the first, second, and maybe the third round picks along with Patrick Peterson of the Arizona Cardinals would be a huge step in re-building. A.J. McCarron is a winner. And he is the perfect QB to have in a run first/power attack offense. As important as an offense is, if the Pittsburgh Steelers do not have a dominating defense, then they are not the Pittsburgh Steelers. A shut down defense and a power running game will always work for this franchise. Regardless of what the rest of the league is doing.
Wanna know just how bad this team is right now? Wait until they actually play an upper-echelon team. Tennessee and Cincinnati are not.
-
Haley is definitely an albatross, among other things.
-
[QUOTE]This would have never happened under Bill Cohwer.[/QUOTE]
BWAH-HAH-HAH!!!
It did happen under Cowher...
-
I agree with everything except Haley not playing being the reason why our O stinks... the guy isn't a good fit and people made too much out of him taking AZ to the SB. Warner, Fitz and Boldin took that team to the SB.
-
Ah, I don't know about all that, DeeDub. You hit on some points, but I'm not ready to give up on this team yet.. Jones had a respectable 3.7 yd avg. last night. He can add to his resume in the Chicago game and beyond. Maybe he'll be a diamond in the rough as they say... When they get Heath back, the defenses are gonna change, and the running game can open up some more. Last year in the1st half Haley did some nice things and Ben/ Steelers were actually really good (tops in the league even) at 3rd down conversions. This year- not so much.... Heath will help in that. But yea, your right about the playmakers. Wallace was one of them. Gonna need to get another one soon at WR.
-
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;573432] It is managements fault because their defensive coordinator has gotten so far away from the 3-4 zone blitz. LeBeau was quoted as saying he wanted more of a pass rush from his D-line this year. Why? That goes completely away from the whole 3-4 zone blitz scheme. He now wants a pass rush from the front 3 and his OLB drop into coverage more than they go after the QB. Look at last night’s game. Hardly any pass rush what so ever on Andy Dalton. And they couldn’t stop the run either. LeBeau, as great as he’s been, as fallen in love with trying to be creative and as a result he has gotten away from what his 3-4 zone blitz is suppose to be. It is sad. This isn’t working the way he is running this defense. He is now allowing opposing teams to dictate what he runs. Can you imagine Aaron Smith showing up to camp 15-20lbs lighter, and being ask to go get the QB? Makes no sense. Standing up Heyward or Keisel and even having them stand up outside of the tackles is mind boggling. Once in a while as a wrinkle is one thing but to change the scope of your 3-4 defense is ridiculous. Plain and simple, LeBeau is allowing teams ( and the league), to dictate what he does on defense. He is no longer running a 3-4 zone blitz at it's core.
[/QUOTE]
You are right on. I have to laugh that everyone is now getting on board with what I have seen coming and been saying for 3 years now. LeBeau benefitted from the perfect storm of having just the right players at the right time for his system but as I have been saying it wasn't sustainable. His system is not sustainable because it relies on too many things going right with the conversion of DTs to DEs and DEs to OLBs. LeBeau has not been able to successfully make that happen even though the organization has showered the defense with resources to keep, or bring back, players who "knew the system."
The salary cap and the demand other teams now have for players that only the Steelers were interested in in the past has made this defense falter. Add in their the excessive complexity and we aren't priming the pump with talent and pushing players on the field now. A defense that is supposedly to be all about pressure and forcing mistakes can't get the QB or a turnover.
Call me a Lebeau hater all you want but this is exactly what I predicted versus making excuses for our revered DC. Everything passes in time and we should had made changes on the defense when we changed Arians.
-
[QUOTE=Slapstick;573438]BWAH-HAH-HAH!!!
It did happen under Cowher...[/QUOTE]I stopped reading after that. These guys don't remember the Ravens making the Steelers look like little school kids. Lmao
-
Just to point out Dee...you stated the Steelers put all their "marbles into Bell". Not sure that is true especially concerning the draft. They actually paid more attention to the O than you did in your mock (look below at your sig).
-
[QUOTE=Oviedo;573451]You are right on. I have to laugh that everyone is now getting on board with what I have seen coming and been saying for 3 years now. LeBeau benefitted from the perfect storm of having just the right players at the right time for his system but as I have been saying it wasn't sustainable. His system is not sustainable because it relies on too many things going right with the conversion of DTs to DEs and DEs to OLBs. LeBeau has not been able to successfully make that happen even though the organization has showered the defense with resources to keep, or bring back, players who "knew the system."
The salary cap and the demand other teams now have for players that only the Steelers were interested in in the past has made this defense falter. Add in their the excessive complexity and we aren't priming the pump with talent and pushing players on the field now. A defense that is supposedly to be all about pressure and forcing mistakes can't get the QB or a turnover.
Call me a Lebeau hater all you want but this is exactly what I predicted versus making excuses for our revered DC. Everything passes in time and we should had made changes on the defense when we changed Arians.[/QUOTE]
Everyone is on board? Umm... I don't think so. I'm still a huge Lebeau fan. By the tears in Harrison's eyes, it appears his players are as well.
-
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;573456]I stopped reading after that. These guys don't remember the Ravens making the Steelers look like little school kids. Lmao[/QUOTE]
Me too. I liked Bill as a coach and all, but to act like the team never struggled under his watch defies credibility.
This team is playing right now without a true #1 WR, RB or TE. The TE and RB are on the team and we should be getting them back as the season progresses. The fact is that the team played better last night than against TN. They met one of the most talent-stacked teams in the NFL in their home opener, but couldn't pull it together. As a reminder, the Bengals actually won the North when the Steelers won the SB in 2005. If you heard Ben's interview on the radio, they are not taking this as a matter of course. They are fighting because they expect better of themselves and hate losing. Some of these things can't be fixed overnight, but I'm confident that they will do what they have to do.
-
[QUOTE=Shawn;573460]Everyone is on board? Umm... I don't think so. I'm still a huge Lebeau fan. By the tears in Harrison's eyes, it appears his players are as well.[/QUOTE]
Shawn--you clearly state the dilemma. Everyone respects and loves Coach Dad but that has nothing to do with him getting the job done that needs to get done with what we have. Separate the emotion and idol worship from the results.
-
[QUOTE=Oviedo;573451]You are right on. I have to laugh that everyone is now getting on board with what I have seen coming and been saying for 3 years now. LeBeau benefitted from the perfect storm of having just the right players at the right time for his system but as I have been saying it wasn't sustainable. His system is not sustainable because it relies on too many things going right with the conversion of DTs to DEs and DEs to OLBs. LeBeau has not been able to successfully make that happen even though the organization has showered the defense with resources to keep, or bring back, players who "knew the system."
The salary cap and the demand other teams now have for players that only the Steelers were interested in in the past has made this defense falter. Add in their the excessive complexity and we aren't priming the pump with talent and pushing players on the field now. A defense that is supposedly to be all about pressure and forcing mistakes can't get the QB or a turnover.
Call me a Lebeau hater all you want but this is exactly what I predicted versus making excuses for our revered DC. Everything passes in time and we should had made changes on the defense when we changed Arians.[/QUOTE]
Whoa, whoa, whoa...
You've been stating all along that LeBeau loves his system more than anything, and will never admit that "his baby is ugly" (or something along those lines). You suggest that the 3-4 zone blitz is now outdated and ol' LeBeau needs to be put out to pasture because he is relentlessly hanging on to it and refuses to change it at all...it takes too long to convert players from their college schemes to a new pro scheme scheme they have never played before.
DeeDub is suggesting the exact opposite of that. He is suggesting that the problem is that LeBeau is moving too far away from his 3-4 zone scheme. And you are agreeing with him??? Now I'm really freaking confused...
-
[QUOTE=Slapstick;573438]BWAH-HAH-HAH!!!
It did happen under Cowher...[/QUOTE]
Never where the Steelers this bad under Cowher. They are bad in every facet of the game right now. You can not say that about any Cowher team. To hear Tomlin say the solution is in the locker room tells you how delusional he is. This is a team void of play makers on both sides of the ball. The solution is not in the Steeler locker room. It is in many new players who are not on this team as of right now.
-
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;573470]Whoa, whoa, whoa...
You've been stating all along that LeBeau loves his system more than anything, and will never admit that "his baby is ugly" (or something along those lines). You suggest that the 3-4 zone blitz is now outdated and ol' LeBeau needs to be put out to pasture because he is relentlessly hanging on to it and refuses to change it at all...it takes too long to convert players from their college schemes to a new pro scheme scheme they have never played before.
DeeDub is suggesting the exact opposite of that. He is suggesting that the problem is that LeBeau is moving too far away from his 3-4 zone scheme. And you are agreeing with him??? Now I'm really freaking confused...[/QUOTE]
For the record I do believe in LeBeau but not the one who has gone way from his bread and butter. Watch these games you will see the 3-4 zone blitz hardly at all.
-
[QUOTE=Oviedo;573468]Shawn--you clearly state the dilemma. Everyone respects and loves Coach Dad but that has nothing to do with him getting the job done that needs to get done with what we have. Separate the emotion and idol worship from the results.[/QUOTE]
To focus on the one area that was pretty good the last couple instead of all the other bad stuff shows some prejudice towards Lebeau. You are not thinking straight. Lebeau is the least of our concerns.
-
[QUOTE=Sugar;573463]The TE and RB are on the team and we should be getting them back as the season progresses. [/QUOTE]
How do you know that the #1 RB is currently on the team? How many regular season games has he rushed for 100+ yards? NFL season total for last year?
[QUOTE=Sugar;573463]The fact is that the team played better last night than against TN.[/QUOTE]
The FACT is it would have been ALMOST impossible to play worse. That said the "improvement" was barely noticeable and certainly nowhere near even a mediocre NFL level.
-
[QUOTE=GradyFusionCrash;573479]He hasn't used the zone blitz for years. THAT is correct.
But as long as Arians offense chewed up clock, and the defense was "ranked" #1? Idiots gave him improper credit.
Now the big play Arians offense is done. And the defense still doesn't make plays.[/QUOTE]
What are guys like you going to say when this D is on the field most of the game and still the #1 D?
-
[QUOTE=Shawn;573488]To focus on the one area that was pretty good the last couple instead of all the other bad stuff shows some prejudice towards Lebeau. You are not thinking straight. Lebeau is the least of our concerns.[/QUOTE]
What would this D look like if it had played the Broncos and Packers instead of the Titans or Bengals?
Shawn, I challenge you to look beyond this defense's final result and see what is really going on between the hash marks/and in the trenches.
-
Our success on D starts with stopping the run. Our DLine is not controlling the LOS and our front 7 is not making clean tackles. They look sloppy. I can't remember a time when I thought an opposing team had a chance to run on us. Something has to get fixed.
Once they can stop the run, teams will have to pass. And that's where we can create some confusion re: who's coming and who's dropping into coverage and that little bit of delay can be the difference in getting pressure on the QB and forcing mistakes.
There are some things I've seen that I like on this D. Healthy Troy and Woodley being the most prominent. Then we've got young guys like Jarvis and Shark that look like they will eventually turn into some pretty good playmakers. JJ looks close to making some splash plays and Shark's good at getting to the ball quickly. Then once we get Cortez back, I think we might end up with some of the best coverage in the league which should feed into even more pressure and turn into more mistakes.
The only question marks at this point are our DLine and ILB. They have to be able to stop the run to make everything else work. And I do think we have the right pieces for this to come together over the course of the season. There's no reason these players can't be one of the top units by year end. I think the talent is there on that side of the ball.
The O is another story. But I can also see a big improvement coming with a healthy Miller. And I really think that Wheaton can be a blend of Hines Ward and Mike Wallace's abilities. We can't get this kid on the field fast enough.
-
[QUOTE=GradyFusionCrash;573508]Funny how no one wants to comment how LeBeau takes Jarvis out, then puts Worilds in, and the defense gives up points.
Like I said, free pass.
Always has.
Always will.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they'll be taking him out much more. Kid had 7 solos in his first start. That's a ton of plays for an OLB. Plus he's getting close to making some big plays. I don't see how you can take him off the field after these first 2 weeks.
-
[QUOTE=flippy;573506]Our success on D starts with stopping the run. Our DLine is not controlling the LOS and our front 7 is not making clean tackles. They look sloppy. I can't remember a time when I thought an opposing team had a chance to run on us. Something has to get fixed.
Once they can stop the run, teams will have to pass. And that's where we can create some confusion re: who's coming and who's dropping into coverage and that little bit of delay can be the difference in getting pressure on the QB and forcing mistakes.
There are some things I've seen that I like on this D. Healthy Troy and Woodley being the most prominent. Then we've got young guys like Jarvis and Shark that look like they will eventually turn into some pretty good playmakers. JJ looks close to making some splash plays and Shark's good at getting to the ball quickly. Then once we get Cortez back, I think we might end up with some of the best coverage in the league which should feed into even more pressure and turn into more mistakes.
The only question marks at this point are our DLine and ILB. They have to be able to stop the run to make everything else work. And I do think we have the right pieces for this to come together over the course of the season. There's no reason these players can't be one of the top units by year end. I think the talent is there on that side of the ball.
The O is another story. But I can also see a big improvement coming with a healthy Miller. And I really think that Wheaton can be a blend of Hines Ward and Mike Wallace's abilities. We can't get this kid on the field fast enough.[/QUOTE]
If it is about the front 7 and the D-line controlling the LOS why would you ask one of your D-lineman to lose weight/slim down to get after the QB? Tell your D-line you want to get more pressure from them this year? Makes no sense. Goes completely away from the 3-4 zone blitz. LeBeau has gotten sucked in by what the league says is now the trend. Asking your team to do something that it isn't built for is wrong. Going away from your strength is wrong.
-
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;573512]If it is about the front 7 and the D-line controlling the LOS why would you ask one of your D-lineman to lose weight/slim down to get after the QB? Tell your D-line you want to get more pressure from them this year? Makes no sense. Goes completely away from the 3-4 zone blitz. LeBeau has gotten sucked in by what the league says is now the trend. Asking your team to do something that it isn't built for is wrong. Going away from your strength is wrong.[/QUOTE]
I'm with ya. Doesn't make sense. The only reason I see this is because we don't have the right talent on the DLine now that Casey/Aaron are gone and so we're adjusting to the players. And it's exactly why we aren't controlling the LOS.
I haven't quite figured out how the new scheme up front is going to make us better? Cause now teams can run. They aren't so predictable. We can't get pressure as much and force mistakes as a result. And somehow we want to turn the front 3 into playmakers when they aren't the most talented players on the field.
At the same time, even though I don't get it. I trust that Dick does and there's a method to all of this. And I hope it becomes clear to the rest of us sooner than later.
-
We can't force mistakes because our offense can go an entire quarter without a first down...the opponent can have their beastly #1 WR average 8 yards per catch and still win because they don't have to take chances...
There is no threat by our offense to score...or even move the ball...
-
[QUOTE=Slapstick;573545]We can't force mistakes because our offense can go an entire quarter without a first down...the opponent can have their beastly #1 WR average 8 yards per catch and still win because they don't have to take chances...
There is no threat by our offense to score...or even move the ball...[/QUOTE]
This... TO's would be nice but that's just another possession for the O to screw up
-
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;573474]Never where the Steelers this bad under Cowher. They are bad in every facet of the game right now. You can not say that about any Cowher team. To hear Tomlin say the solution is in the locker room tells you how delusional he is. This is a team void of play makers on both sides of the ball. The solution is not in the Steeler locker room. It is in many new players who are not on this team as of right now.[/QUOTE]
Cowher had three straight losing seasons and they were back to back. I don't know when many of you became fans, but maybe you should look it up first before comparing. And they were awful seasons.
-
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;573562]Cowher had three straight losing seasons and they were back to back. I don't know when many of you became fans, but maybe you should look it up first before comparing. And they were awful seasons.[/QUOTE]
Yep. This.
-
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;573562]Cowher had three straight losing seasons and they were back to back. I don't know when many of you became fans, but maybe you should look it up first before comparing. And they were awful seasons.[/QUOTE]
those 3 years cowher had little talent and no franchise qb. this team has both but no leadership. tomlin was not the most qualified individual when he was hired. he was suppose to learn as he went along. he hasnt shown any improvement in any aspect of head coaching and has allowed this team to become soft and undisciplined. cowher may have had losing seasons but his teams never lost its identity.
-
[QUOTE=Oviedo;573468]Shawn--you clearly state the dilemma. Everyone respects and loves Coach Dad but that has nothing to do with him getting the job done that needs to get done with what we have. Separate the emotion and idol worship from the results.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that the defense IS THE LAST reason we are 0-2.
Of ALL the top three coaches, Haley, Tpmlin and Lebeau, DL is BY FAR the least responsible for our record.
-
Ok how many losing season have Tomlin had..... OK I rest my case. I'm not defending Tomlin because I feel if he can't fire Haley then maybe he should get canned. I just don't understand the comparison. And by the way many thought Cowher was not the right hire and to be fair Tomlin had more credentials than Cowher when he was hired.
-
-
[QUOTE=RuthlessBurgher;573470]Whoa, whoa, whoa...
You've been stating all along that LeBeau loves his system more than anything, and will never admit that "his baby is ugly" (or something along those lines). You suggest that the 3-4 zone blitz is now outdated and ol' LeBeau needs to be put out to pasture because he is relentlessly hanging on to it and refuses to change it at all...it takes too long to convert players from their college schemes to a new pro scheme scheme they have never played before.
DeeDub is suggesting the exact opposite of that. He is suggesting that the problem is that LeBeau is moving too far away from his 3-4 zone scheme. And you are agreeing with him??? Now I'm really freaking confused...[/QUOTE]
As long as someone is bashing Lebeau they are right in the eyes of some.....even if the reasoning is the EXACT OPPOSITE theirs
-
[QUOTE=GradyFusionCrash;573473]LeBeau's not leaving until HE says so.[/QUOTE]
As it should be, he is the best
-
The only identity Cowher had was beating up his own division and choking in Home championship games against mostly inferior opponents.
-
[QUOTE=Dee Dub;573474]To hear Tomlin say the solution is in the locker room tells you how delusional he is. This is a team void of play makers on both sides of the ball. The solution is not in the Steeler locker room. It is in many new players who are not on this team as of right now.[/QUOTE]
How can "coaching" fix what you have just stated?
-
[QUOTE=Captain Lemming;573570]As long as someone is bashing Lebeau they are right in the eyes of some.....even if the reasoning is the EXACT OPPOSITE theirs[/QUOTE]
too damn funny.
agendas are hard.
-
[QUOTE]Who’s idea was it for Cameron Heyward to lose weight? We get on players all the time for them showing up out of shape, why does Cameron Heyward get a break? He is not suppose to be a pass rusher. He is suppose to be a run stuffer/gap plugger. Now at his current weight, he isnt going to stuff anything. But it isn’t his fault. It is managements fault because their defensive coordinator has gotten so far away from the 3-4 zone blitz. LeBeau was quoted as saying he wanted more of a pass rush from his D-line this year. Why? [/QUOTE]
Because some kinda pass rush from the line is nothing new. Aaron Smith has had 8 sacks in a season more than once. Even fat Kimo had 8 sacks once. Ray Seals had 8.5 and 7 sacks the two seasons he was here.
Last year Keisel led the Dline with 4.
[QUOTE]Can you imagine Aaron Smith showing up to camp 15-20lbs lighter, and being ask to go get the QB?[/QUOTE]
No need to "imagine" we saw it. Not that he lost weight, he was drafted at about 275 and GAINED weight over the years. He WAS lighter at 25 years old and got 8 sacks before he became a 300 pounder.
-
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;573562]Cowher had three straight losing seasons and they were back to back. I don't know when many of you became fans, but maybe you should look it up first before comparing. And they were awful seasons.[/QUOTE]
What is crazy, is how a whole generation of Steeler fans (from '92 on), have yet to experience any span of losing besides that little blip you refer to.
-
[QUOTE=Captain Lemming;573571]As it should be, he is the best[/QUOTE]
I agree... the man made Deebo cry. I watched that interview earlier in the week and Deebo actually said something after that long pause....
3 words....
I miss him.
-
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;573572]The only identity Cowher had was beating up his own division and choking in Home championship games against mostly inferior opponents.[/QUOTE]
I would call the chargers "inferior" not the others he lost to.
-
[QUOTE=Shoe;573578]What is crazy, is how a whole generation of Steeler fans (from '92 on), have yet to experience any span of losing besides that little blip you refer to.[/QUOTE]
I know... the 80's were brutal. I have to be honest.... the 80's were my prime for tackle football in the neighborhood so I missed some of those stinkers.