Does Pittsburgh understand its personnel?

[WindyCitySteel]

Just abysmal. Coaching matters, we ain't got none.


https://steelersdepot.com/2023/12/film-room-does-pittsburgh-understand-their-personnel/

[Real Deal Steel]

Just abysmal. Coaching matters, we ain't got none.


https://steelersdepot.com/2023/12/film-room-does-pittsburgh-understand-their-personnel/

Our team is flawed from the owner on down. There is an old saying....

" When something stinks, it stinks from the head on down."

And that' s where we are now. We stink and it starts with Rooney Jr. His bad decision making has trickled down to every facet of this team and now we are a drift like most bad teams in the league.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Alex Kozora is one of the better writers in town and is correct most of the time, including this one. Tomlin/ Faulkner seem to have no clue and I am afraid they will both return next season.

[Real Deal Steel]

Alex Kozora is one of the better writers in town and is correct most of the time, including this one. Tomlin/ Faulkner seem to have no clue and I am afraid they will both return next season.

Who keeps them around? Rooney Jr.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Who keeps them around? Rooney Jr.

More than likely and he is afraid of the fall-out if he canned Tomlin.

[Djfan]

Good article.

[Buzz]

More than likely and he is afraid of the fall-out if he canned Tomlin.

bingo

plus, keeping Tomlin around isn't costing him any $$$$ -- the revenues keep flowing in

[NorthCoast]

Nothing new here. Seen it for some time.
Slow footed LBs trying to cover WRs on crossing routes. Lightweight receivers (Switzer) trying to block a DE. Plenty of examples to pick from.

[WindyCitySteel]

Crowley and Dickerson on the Fan asked this question today -- whose arrow is pointing up? They couldn't come up with many besides Warren, and it's a legit question. Also cited former Steelers playing better elsewhere, asked if the Steelers "know their personnel".

Total indictment of the coaching staff. Even if Tomlin is retained, they need to clean house with the rest of the staff.

[Eich]

Crowley and Dickerson on the Fan asked this question today -- whose arrow is pointing up? They couldn't come up with many besides Warren, and it's a legit question. Also cited former Steelers playing better elsewhere, asked if the Steelers "know their personnel".

Total indictment of the coaching staff. Even if Tomlin is retained, they need to clean house with the rest of the staff.

Agree.

I'm almost sure Tomlin will be retained. But there is no more important decision for the future of this team than the offensive coordinator.

As far as arrows pointing up, it's hard to even find the arrows on offense. Kenny might be pointing up. Who knows. Pickens might point up. Who knows. Muth? Who knows. We wasted 2 full seasons with an offensive system that's trash.

[whatever]

Crowley and Dickerson on the Fan asked this question today -- whose arrow is pointing up? They couldn't come up with many besides Warren, and it's a legit question. Also cited former Steelers playing better elsewhere, asked if the Steelers "know their personnel".

Total indictment of the coaching staff. Even if Tomlin is retained, they need to clean house with the rest of the staff.

Cleaning house but leaving Tomlin won’t fix this. Tomlin is the problem.

[Northern_Blitz]

Crowley and Dickerson on the Fan asked this question today -- whose arrow is pointing up? They couldn't come up with many besides Warren, and it's a legit question. Also cited former Steelers playing better elsewhere, asked if the Steelers "know their personnel".

Total indictment of the coaching staff. Even if Tomlin is retained, they need to clean house with the rest of the staff.

I'd add JPJ, Benton, and Jones to the list of guys with arrows pointed up.

Maybe little Heyward, but he's a bit player so it's not super consequential.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

Just abysmal. Coaching matters, we ain't got none.


https://steelersdepot.com/2023/12/film-room-does-pittsburgh-understand-their-personnel/

No we don't. We have a group of QB's that are back ups at best.

I will never understand why we seldom use play action.

I will never understand why 85% of our throws a behind the LOS! Especially those on third down.


We should use 2 TE sets more than we do. Ans we should have a FB for jumbo packages.

Our punter should have been cut two season ago.

Guys do not develop quick enough on Pittsburgh.

One can type in a laundry list of things

[WindyCitySteel]

I'd add JPJ, Benton, and Jones to the list of guys with arrows pointed up.

Maybe little Heyward, but he's a bit player so it's not super consequential.

I was thinking more of year over year....Pickens and Pickett looked ready to erupt after last year, both regressed. Hope this isn't a pattern;

[Chadman]

I'll say this- the build of the Steelers roster is weird.

I don't know if ANYONE can point at it & say "this team is built to..." (other than 'fail'- jumping in front of the doomsayers)

The FO HAS to start drafting to a plan. Not just picking up athletes etc.

Steelers football was always known as hard nosed defense & a pounding run game. Now we have mauling OG's, a finesse OC & a mix at OT. Are we pounding the rock up the middle? Or are we trying to pass against the opposition? Najee Harris in the 1st suggests we want to be a power running team. So we remove the FB from the roster. And we have Muth trying to block DT's.

Do we actually have a 'deep threat' WR? If DJ was the type of WR we always wanted to run with- why ever let JuJu, who was the best blocking WR we had, go in FA?

George Pickens is a very talented type of WR. But what, exactly, is his role? Is he stretching the field? Rarely.

Our 3-4 defense has become a Nickel or Dime base set. What are we trying to achieve? Why invest in 3 FA ILB's if we are going to play 5 DB's on 70% of our defensive snaps? Other than Minkah, where is the financial investment in the DB's if they are now the highest populace on our defensive sets?

The Steelers FO lost it's way a bit these last few years. We are not any particular style of football team.

Kenny Pickett may never be Dan Marino. Doesn't need to be. If we had a mauling OC & that other OT opposite Jones was a run blocker, bring in Derek Watt to complete the Brother Requirement stat & run Harris as the pound-you-down RB he's supposed to be. Give Pickett 3-4 WR's that are better in run-after-the-catch (can we all just say JuJu again?) so he isn't REQUIRED to be a blazing passer.

Set the tone on the lines of scrimmage. Be a run team. Or a pass team. Or a 3-4, or 4-3.

But BE IT.

Right now, it's a collection of talented guys with no real direction.

Yes, it's 'on Tomlin'. But it's also on Rooney, Kahn, Colbert before him, the coaches, the scouts etc, etc.

If Tomlin can't decide what he wants the Steelers to be- it's time to move on.

[flippy]

I'll say this- the build of the Steelers roster is weird.

I don't know if ANYONE can point at it & say "this team is built to..." (other than 'fail'- jumping in front of the doomsayers)

The FO HAS to start drafting to a plan. Not just picking up athletes etc.

Steelers football was always known as hard nosed defense & a pounding run game. Now we have mauling OG's, a finesse OC & a mix at OT. Are we pounding the rock up the middle? Or are we trying to pass against the opposition? Najee Harris in the 1st suggests we want to be a power running team. So we remove the FB from the roster. And we have Muth trying to block DT's.

Do we actually have a 'deep threat' WR? If DJ was the type of WR we always wanted to run with- why ever let JuJu, who was the best blocking WR we had, go in FA?

George Pickens is a very talented type of WR. But what, exactly, is his role? Is he stretching the field? Rarely.

Our 3-4 defense has become a Nickel or Dime base set. What are we trying to achieve? Why invest in 3 FA ILB's if we are going to play 5 DB's on 70% of our defensive snaps? Other than Minkah, where is the financial investment in the DB's if they are now the highest populace on our defensive sets?

The Steelers FO lost it's way a bit these last few years. We are not any particular style of football team.

Kenny Pickett may never be Dan Marino. Doesn't need to be. If we had a mauling OC & that other OT opposite Jones was a run blocker, bring in Derek Watt to complete the Brother Requirement stat & run Harris as the pound-you-down RB he's supposed to be. Give Pickett 3-4 WR's that are better in run-after-the-catch (can we all just say JuJu again?) so he isn't REQUIRED to be a blazing passer.

Set the tone on the lines of scrimmage. Be a run team. Or a pass team. Or a 3-4, or 4-3.

But BE IT.

Right now, it's a collection of talented guys with no real direction.

Yes, it's 'on Tomlin'. But it's also on Rooney, Kahn, Colbert before him, the coaches, the scouts etc, etc.

If Tomlin can't decide what he wants the Steelers to be- it's time to move on.

good points here Chadman.

almost every unit leaves me thinking wtf sometimes. Even things like us being a better at playing man than zone on D, yet we ask these guys who are built to play man to cover and area.

I have no idea what our OLine wants to be. We try to turn maulers into finesse zone guys and vice versa.

and I would even replace GP with CA3 to support the run game because even though CA3 is the littlest guy on the team, he really gets after trying to blocking. Almost reminds me of the effort of ARE trying to live up to the Hines standard. I remember a block against one of the Viking DTs where ARE laid out some 350 lber to spring a TD. That dude was 150+ lbs more than ARE and he wasn’t worried about getting hurt like GP.

We just need a little more heart on this team. And some direction/identity. And let’s adjust the system to maximize the talent of the guys we have.

[NorthCoast]

I'll say this- the build of the Steelers roster is weird.

I don't know if ANYONE can point at it & say "this team is built to..." (other than 'fail'- jumping in front of the doomsayers)

The FO HAS to start drafting to a plan. Not just picking up athletes etc.

Steelers football was always known as hard nosed defense & a pounding run game. Now we have mauling OG's, a finesse OC & a mix at OT. Are we pounding the rock up the middle? Or are we trying to pass against the opposition? Najee Harris in the 1st suggests we want to be a power running team. So we remove the FB from the roster. And we have Muth trying to block DT's.

Do we actually have a 'deep threat' WR? If DJ was the type of WR we always wanted to run with- why ever let JuJu, who was the best blocking WR we had, go in FA?

George Pickens is a very talented type of WR. But what, exactly, is his role? Is he stretching the field? Rarely.

Our 3-4 defense has become a Nickel or Dime base set. What are we trying to achieve? Why invest in 3 FA ILB's if we are going to play 5 DB's on 70% of our defensive snaps? Other than Minkah, where is the financial investment in the DB's if they are now the highest populace on our defensive sets?

The Steelers FO lost it's way a bit these last few years. We are not any particular style of football team.

Kenny Pickett may never be Dan Marino. Doesn't need to be. If we had a mauling OC & that other OT opposite Jones was a run blocker, bring in Derek Watt to complete the Brother Requirement stat & run Harris as the pound-you-down RB he's supposed to be. Give Pickett 3-4 WR's that are better in run-after-the-catch (can we all just say JuJu again?) so he isn't REQUIRED to be a blazing passer.

Set the tone on the lines of scrimmage. Be a run team. Or a pass team. Or a 3-4, or 4-3.

But BE IT.

Right now, it's a collection of talented guys with no real direction.

Yes, it's 'on Tomlin'. But it's also on Rooney, Kahn, Colbert before him, the coaches, the scouts etc, etc.

If Tomlin can't decide what he wants the Steelers to be- it's time to move on.

Until the QB position is settled you can't know what the offense is. And the QB position is far from settled.

[WindyCitySteel]

Until the QB position is settled you can't know what the offense is. And the QB position is far from settled.

How do you settle on a QB with a JV offense with no audibles, no hots, horizontal routes, OL that stinks, WRs that quit on routes?

If all of this is because Pickett stinks, then get rid of everyone, including the coaches who are insisting he's the guy.

Cowher put together some formidable teams around average to below average QBs. Several coaches are doing that this year around the league.

If Tomlin needs an All Pro team to succeed, he's the wrong guy.

[T.Ferguson]

In regard to Chadman's post, Steelers are ranked 27th in YAC in the NFL, edging out the Browns by 11 yards. The other teams with a worse YAC - Giants, Cardinals, Panthers and Falcons.

The issue is not the QB in regards to this, it is the play design and play calling primarily - most routes are outs, curls, sideline patterns. This goes along with all the other problems with the offense where it is ignores player usage (ie, not targeting Pickens downfield) and is primarily about playing it safe and taking time off the clock.

[Eich]

How do you settle on a QB with a JV offense with no audibles, no hots, horizontal routes, OL that stinks, WRs that quit on routes?

If all of this is because Pickett stinks, then get rid of everyone, including the coaches who are insisting he's the guy.

Cowher put together some formidable teams around average to below average QBs. Several coaches are doing that this year around the league.

If Tomlin needs an All Pro team to succeed, he's the wrong guy.

Agree with all of this. But the number ONE decision that lead to where we are now is Matt Canada. He installed an offense that just doesn't work. Period. I don't care what players are in the huddle, this offense doesn't work. Until you hire a LEGIT coordinator, the situation isn't going to change.

I don't care of Tomlin stays or goes really. But the coordinator position needs to be fixed ASAP. And a real offense needs to be installed. You're not going to get any player excited about playing in THIS offense. You're not going to get most players willing to sacrifice their bodies for THIS offense.

[Northern_Blitz]

In regard to Chadman's post, Steelers are ranked 27th in YAC in the NFL, edging out the Browns by 11 yards. The other teams with a worse YAC - Giants, Cardinals, Panthers and Falcons.

The issue is not the QB in regards to this, it is the play design and play calling primarily - most routes are outs, curls, sideline patterns. This goes along with all the other problems with the offense where it is ignores player usage (ie, not targeting Pickens downfield) and is primarily about playing it safe and taking time off the clock.

Passing accuracy also matters for YAC.

It's not the only issue, but KP often throws something that's catchable, but the WR has to jump up or reach back instead of catching it in stride.

I know all QBs do this. But it "feels" like KP does it more (although I'm emotionally invested, so I don't trust my eyes necessarily).

I think North Coast posted about catchable and on target passes from KP a little while ago. I think it agrees with the idea that he's not accurate.

And it supports why a guy like DJ had a massive drop in YAC when we went from Ben to Kenny/Mitch in the same system.

Kenny isn't the only problem. AND the scheme isn't the only problem (although I really wish it was because it's much easier to fix IMO).

[T.Ferguson]

Passing accuracy also matters for YAC.

It's not the only issue, but KP often throws something that's catchable, but the WR has to jump up or reach back instead of catching it in stride.

I know all QBs do this. But it "feels" like KP does it more (although I'm emotionally invested, so I don't trust my eyes necessarily).

I think North Coast posted about catchable and on target passes from KP a little while ago. I think it agrees with the idea that he's not accurate.

And it supports why a guy like DJ had a massive drop in YAC when we went from Ben to Kenny/Mitch in the same system.

Kenny isn't the only problem. AND the scheme isn't the only problem (although I really wish it was because it's much easier to fix IMO).

The point is a lot of routes in this offense = no YAC. I would also say WRs not reading defensive coverage properly also plays a role in QB accuracy.

[NorthCoast]

The point is a lot of routes in this offense = no YAC. I would also say WRs not reading defensive coverage properly also plays a role in QB accuracy.

Because the QBs struggle with crossers, slants, and even go routes that end up back shoulder.
It amazes me how people forget the throws that are behind, over, and generally off target when the target is moving.

[Northern_Blitz]

Because the QBs struggle with crossers, slants, and even go routes that end up back shoulder.
It amazes me how people forget the throws that are behind, over, and generally off target when the target is moving.

This is the big question with this team IMO.

How much is the scheme limiting the QB? And how much is the QB limiting the schemet?

I'm sure that both are true to some degree.

I think we'll get more information next season, because I think KP will be our starter again.

[Northern_Blitz]

The point is a lot of routes in this offense = no YAC. I would also say WRs not reading defensive coverage properly also plays a role in QB accuracy.

My point re: DJ was that it was the same offense in Ben's last year and in Kenny's first.

DJ's YAC/rec was 4.9 in Ben's last year (similar to the numbers in his first 2 years).

It was 2.7 last season (Kenny's rookie year).

It's up this year. But at 3.8, it's still significantly below the three years he spend with Ben. Including the last year when Canada was OC (which is where the 4.9 number comes from).

[WindyCitySteel]

How much YAC was gained with Ben on pure slants vs. bubble screens? The offense has avoided the MOF for years with 4 different QBs.

[Northern_Blitz]

How much YAC was gained with Ben on pure slants vs. bubble screens? The offense has avoided the MOF for years with 4 different QBs.

It's actually 5 QBs (Mason, Duck, Ben, Mitch, and Kenny). Three of those we know are bad. One was 40. And the other hasn't looked good in the limited opportunities throwing over the middle of the field (in a bad scheme) IMO.

I don't know the answer to your question...but I don't think we ran slants with Ben much. Total YAC, I think it's probably a lot more than the combination of KP and Mitch. At least by looking at DJs numbers. But DJ was still allowed to run WR routes. Juju was running the route tree of a RB in his last season here and was getting 4.5 YAC/rec. DJ hasn't hit that number with KP. But Pickens is at 4.6 this year.

Even at the end of his career, I think Ben was still good with short passes and quick reads. It's just when other teams realized he couldn't throw deep with accuracy anymore they loaded up the box to stop the dink and dunk. And we weren't able to hit big shots to make them pay.

[T.Ferguson]

My point re: DJ was that it was the same offense in Ben's last year and in Kenny's first.

DJ's YAC/rec was 4.9 in Ben's last year (similar to the numbers in his first 2 years).

It was 2.7 last season (Kenny's rookie year).

It's up this year. But at 3.8, it's still significantly below the three years he spend with Ben. Including the last year when Canada was OC (which is where the 4.9 number comes from).

How many of his yards were in the no huddle during Ben's final year vs the base offense? This offense hasn't changed much if any since then, if anything it's gotten even more conservative. Constant struggle unless there is a splash play (rare) or the offense is running the no huddle. A large portion of routes simply offer little YAC.

I would also argue DJ is being misused like Pickens in this offense, how many outs is DJ running now? Pickens meanwhile is barely thrown downfield.

[Mr.wizard]

More than likely and he is afraid of the fall-out if he canned Tomlin.

What fallout?

[Northern_Blitz]

How many of his yards were in the no huddle during Ben's final year vs the base offense? This offense hasn't changed much if any since then, if anything it's gotten even more conservative. Constant struggle unless there is a splash play (rare) or the offense is running the no huddle. A large portion of routes simply offer little YAC.

I would also argue DJ is being misused like Pickens in this offense, how many outs is DJ running now? Pickens meanwhile is barely thrown downfield.

Early in the season we heard a lot about 4th quarter Kenny calling his own plays late, right?

No one is arguing the system we have is good.

We're arguing that it's ALSO true that QB play has been bad for a while here.

[T.Ferguson]

Early in the season we heard a lot about 4th quarter Kenny calling his own plays late, right?

No one is arguing the system we have is good.

We're arguing that it's ALSO true that QB play has been bad for a while here.

We did? Does he? Not sure how this became another KP debate lol, my original point was simply that this offense does not allow for a lot of YAC, that's it. I don't think it really has much to do with QB accuracy, an out pattern isn't getting much YAC, if any for example, which is how DJ seems to be used exclusively now in this offense.

[NorthCoast]

The secret to the resurgent run game?
13 personnel... that is a wall of humanity there:https://i.redd.it/q40d5u8rsu9c1.jpeg