13 Personnel

[flippy]

Just curious what you guys think of our new look 13 personnel.

Is it something we stick with more?

Kinda forces the D to match up with us and you can create some matchup problems.

[pczach]

Just curious what you guys think of our new look 13 personnel.

Is it something we stick with more?

Kinda forces the D to match up with us and you can create some matchup problems.

I think it can really be effective as long as they let the players do what they do best and not force them to do things they aren't good at. When they have those tight ends in the game, there is a lot of versatility. Washington is the obvious physical force. He should be the in-line blocker. Muth and Heyward are the more athletic TEs. I think most times you should see Muth line up outside, and Heyward used in motion where he is able to do everything. He can run block, he can take a handoff and run, he can pass block, he can go in motion and line up outside on either side of the formation, and he can go into his route tree on any given play. It really is something that can work well, especially if they go hurry up and the defense is caught with the wrong personnel to handle it.

If the defense is small, they could pound the rock. If the defense is big, they can use more motion, run play action and throw the ball more.

I like anything that gives defenses more to worry about, and as long as they can dictate good matchups it will work.

[Captain Lemming]

Just curious what you guys think of our new look 13 personnel.

Is it something we stick with more?

Kinda forces the D to match up with us and you can create some matchup problems.

Occasionally sure. But it makes us predictable.

If Washington is capable of becoming a REAL WEAPON in the passing game it could be absolutely scary.

But frankly, I dont care for Conner as a blocker.

I personally would like to see more 2 backs. I know it is weird but 2 tight ends 2 backs? I really think these guys BOTH have incredible leg drive and have the gifts to lead block like fullbacks. When you look at Najee carrying what felt like the ENTIRE BENGALS DEFENSE, what could he do coming around the corner as a lead blocker, leading the path to a Jones Washington tandem? Warren uses his ?pop? on a middle backer on a Najee run up the middle?

And both guys can pass block and catch with the best of them.

Bottom line we?ve got guys who are skillfully using different looks and matchups is awesome.

[feltdizz]

Occasionally sure. But it makes us predictable.

If Washington is capable of becoming a REAL WEAPON in the passing game it could be absolutely scary.

But frankly, I dont care for Conner as a blocker.

I personally would like to see more 2 backs. I know it is weird but 2 tight ends 2 backs? I really think these guys BOTH have incredible leg drive and have the gifts to lead block like fullbacks. When you look at Najee carrying what felt like the ENTIRE BENGALS DEFENSE, what could he do coming around the corner as a lead blocker, leading the path to a Jones Washington tandem? Warren uses his ?pop? on a middle backer on a Najee run up the middle?

And both guys can pass block and catch with the best of them.

Bottom line we?ve got guys who are skillfully using different looks and matchups is awesome.

I do not want these guys risking concussions as lead blockers, especially Warren because he already has a few fines for using his helmet.

I would prefer having them run the opposite direction on plays they aren?t getting the ball. More effective than bringing another defender towards the runner.

[WindyCitySteel]

It's next level to be able to run or pass out of the same set, you can trap the defense on the field and go up tempo. NE used to murder teams doing this. They load up to stop run, you throw, and vice versa, all without running people in and out.

[NorthCoast]

This breakdown shows the conflict Faulkner created with 13 personnel. Was an easy read for Pickett for a completion.
The other examples are simple in design but stressed the defense far better than Canada was able to do.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/film-breakdown-how-pat-freiermuths-presence-helps-steelers-offense/

[papillon]

So, here's my question about the "new" look offense. Many posters on this board from the moment Canada was let go said that the Steelers wouldn't be able to design new plays and that they would be using the same play sheet. I'm seeing all these videos stating that the Steelers "play design" is causing mismatches, putting defenders at odds with who to cover, having more blockers than defenders in the run game, etc. How did this all happen in one week? Or, more importantly, why were the Steelers unable to create these issues with Canada? The play is the play, why are they now causing problems for the defense? Is PF that important to the offense? Washington? Heyward? Just wondering what everyone thinks as to why in one week an offense that couldn't create a mismatch ever and now now nearly every play was a problem for the defense? Or, is Cincy's defense just that bad?

Pappy

[feltdizz]

This breakdown shows the conflict Faulkner created with 13 personnel. Was an easy read for Pickett for a completion.
The other examples are simple in design but stressed the defense far better than Canada was able to do.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/film-breakdown-how-pat-freiermuths-presence-helps-steelers-offense/

I see Kenny looking defenders off too.

[feltdizz]

So, here's my question about the "new" look offense. Many posters on this board from the moment Canada was let go said that the Steelers wouldn't be able to design new plays and that they would be using the same play sheet. I'm seeing all these videos stating that the Steelers "play design" is causing mismatches, putting defenders at odds with who to cover, having more blockers than defenders in the run game, etc. How did this all happen in one week? Or, more importantly, why were the Steelers unable to create these issues with Canada? The play is the play, why are they now causing problems for the defense? Is PF that important to the offense? Washington? Heyward? Just wondering what everyone thinks as to why in one week an offense that couldn't create a mismatch ever and now now nearly every play was a problem for the defense? Or, is Cincy's defense just that bad?

Pappy

I think what we are seeing is Canada was awful at play calling. Is Muth important? Yes, in the passing game. We used him mostly as a blocker with Canada.

I heard the word is Faulkner always wanted to be an OC. Guys who want to be OC’s will see current OC’s coming up short and swear they won’t make those same mistakes if they were in that position.

The last thing they tried to do was bring Canada down to the sideline to get closer to the players. Which might imply he wasn’t close to these guys and putting them in the best position to succeed.

I watched a series on the Lakers called Winning Time and Paul Westhead was the coach. Pat Riley was the assistant coach. Paul kept screaming to run the system. Run to spots. Players hated it and Magic demanded a trade. Pat Riley told Magic to be Magic. Players could talk to Pat. They trusted him, he was one of them. Players complain to coaches like Sullivan and Faulkner about plays they are running that don’t work. These guys have 2.5 years of film on what doesn’t work.

I think Canada was just too stubborn to change based on the D he was facing.

[NorthCoast]

I think what we are seeing is Canada was awful at play calling. Is Muth important? Yes, in the passing game. We used him mostly as a blocker with Canada.

I heard the word is Faulkner always wanted to be an OC. Guys who want to be OC’s will see current OC’s coming up short and swear they won’t make those same mistakes if they were in that position.

The last thing they tried to do was bring Canada down to the sideline to get closer to the players. Which might imply he wasn’t close to these guys and putting them in the best position to succeed.

I watched a series on the Lakers called Winning Time and Paul Westhead was the coach. Pat Riley was the assistant coach. Paul kept screaming to run the system. Run to spots. Players hated it and Magic demanded a trade. Pat Riley told Magic to be Magic. Players could talk to Pat. They trusted him, he was one of them. Players complain to coaches like Sullivan and Faulkner about plays they are running that don’t work. These guys have 2.5 years of film on what doesn’t work.

I think Canada was just too stubborn to change based on the D he was facing.

Canada was a lazy OC. And not very bright either.


“My offense is simple,” he said. “You keep your offense simple, and you do it better than everybody else.”

How crazy is this in a professional sport? They clearly couldn't do it better than everyone else.

[Captain Lemming]

This kind of exposes the fact that he was not too bright.

EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE THIS you don’t SAY it when you are under fire .

Noll could say something like that mid 70s and be APPLAUDED.

Canada? No not when simple ain’t working, and people want your head.

[papillon]

I think what we are seeing is Canada was awful at play calling. Is Muth important? Yes, in the passing game. We used him mostly as a blocker with Canada.

I heard the word is Faulkner always wanted to be an OC. Guys who want to be OC?s will see current OC?s coming up short and swear they won?t make those same mistakes if they were in that position.

The last thing they tried to do was bring Canada down to the sideline to get closer to the players. Which might imply he wasn?t close to these guys and putting them in the best position to succeed.

I watched a series on the Lakers called Winning Time and Paul Westhead was the coach. Pat Riley was the assistant coach. Paul kept screaming to run the system. Run to spots. Players hated it and Magic demanded a trade. Pat Riley told Magic to be Magic. Players could talk to Pat. They trusted him, he was one of them. Players complain to coaches like Sullivan and Faulkner about plays they are running that don?t work. These guys have 2.5 years of film on what doesn?t work.

I think Canada was just too stubborn to change based on the D he was facing.

I just wonder then if the play by the Steelers should have been to remove play calling duties and allow Canada to design the plays? Obviously, he can design the plays but was not good at when to use them or how to put them together so that they are a plan and not just a series of plays.

Pappy

[WindyCitySteel]

Canada was a lazy OC. And not very bright either.



How crazy is this in a professional sport? They clearly couldn't do it better than everyone else.

And Tomlin defended him for 2.5 years. He also downplayed the passing game improvements in his Tuesday presser.

That tells me he was the loudest voice in the offensive room and is not anymore.

[Steel Maniac]

It's next level to be able to run or pass out of the same set, you can trap the defense on the field and go up tempo. NE used to murder teams doing this. They load up to stop run, you throw, and vice versa, all without running people in and out.

Your right. I'd like to see our new OC's be that innovative.

[hawaiiansteel]

This kind of exposes the fact that he was not too bright.

EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE THIS you don’t SAY it when you are under fire .

Noll could say something like that mid 70s and be APPLAUDED.

Canada? No not when simple ain’t working, and people want your head.

I'm just glad Matt Canada is gone.

[NorthCoast]

And Tomlin defended him for 2.5 years. He also downplayed the passing game improvements in his Tuesday presser.

That tells me he was the loudest voice in the offensive room and is not anymore.

Two possibilities:
A) Tomlin hired Canada so felt compelled to defend his choice
B) Canada was a Rooney choice so as a company man Tomlin defended the hire

And Rooneys pride themselves in honoring contracts so firing wasn't going to be the easy out.
We'll have to wait for someone's bio to come out before we know the truth.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Canada was a lazy OC. And not very bright either.



How crazy is this in a professional sport? They clearly couldn't do it better than everyone else.

Canada was a control freak and enlisted no help from his staff. He deserves what he got.

[Captain Lemming]

Two possibilities:
A) Tomlin hired Canada so felt compelled to defend his choice
B) Canada was a Rooney choice so as a company man Tomlin defended the hire

And Rooneys pride themselves in honoring contracts so firing wasn't going to be the easy out.
We'll have to wait for someone's bio to come out before we know the truth.

True. Third possibility is a middle ground where Tomlin chose Canada, but Rooney per his history lets contracts play out rather that fire coordinators. Tomlin would have to live with his choice until Rooney could not tolerate it.

Thus it is VERY possible Tomlin WANTED TO FIRE Canada for a long time, but the timing was Rooney.

Frank truth is we have no earthly way to know what happened.

Could be any of the above scenarios.

Bottom line for our friend Windy:
1. Bad result= Tomlin
2. Good result= Anybody BUT Tomlin

Pretty much any topic.

[WindyCitySteel]

True. Third possibility is a middle ground where Tomlin chose Canada, but Rooney per his history lets contracts play out rather that fire coordinators. Tomlin would have to live with his choice until Rooney could not tolerate it.

Thus it is VERY possible Tomlin WANTED TO FIRE Canada for a long time, but the timing was Rooney.

Frank truth is we have no earthly way to know what happened.

Could be any of the above scenarios.

Bottom line for our friend Windy:
1. Bad result= Tomlin
2. Good result= Anybody BUT Tomlin

Pretty much any topic.

Take it up with Dulac and Bouchette, they're both adamant it was Rooney's decision. Judging Tomlin by his own words the past year, he was a fan of Canada.

[Captain Lemming]

Take it up with Dulac and Bouchette, they're both adamant it was Rooney's decision. Judging Tomlin by his own words the past year, he was a fan of Canada.

Why would I take the word of anyone who is literally named BOUCHETTE? :)

DK (Does Know) says it was all TOMLIN.

Bottom line they are all speculating based on body language etc. Only Tomlin and Rooney know for sure.

As far as Tomlins PODIUM support, if he could not fire Canada it is EXACTLY what you would expect.

Tomlin does not care what fans and the media think. He cares about his boss and his team Windy. What he says publicly is what is best for both.

Undermining the coach of half your roster publicly does not serve those purposes if you can’t fire the guy.