$$$ Spent; Not Much in Return

[NorthCoast]

A lot of money spent and not much in return. Keep in mind the Steelers are on the hook for $10M for Roethlisberger this season. Need to add that into the position spending. They are now 27th in the NFL for active QB cap hits, but adding the $10M puts them at about the mid-point of the league for the QB position.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52026444679_67faf87a5e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

[Joel Buchsbaum]

A lot of money spent and not much in return. Keep in mind the Steelers are on the hook for $10M for Roethlisberger this season. Need to add that into the position spending. They are now 27th in the NFL for active QB cap hits, but adding the $10M puts them at about the mid-point of the league for the QB position.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52026444679_67faf87a5e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

Yep. Ten million for a retired player. For us it is six years and zero playoff wins.

[Ernie]

I said it at the time.. and I'll say it in hindsight.. our extending Ben prior to the 2019 season was one of the worst moves weve made in the last decade. It was a panic move that cost us dearly. At that time (and at his age) we shouldve been focused on one year deals.. he wasnt going anywhere at that point in his career..

[crushedspirit]

I think many of us felt the same about Ben at that time. To me, it always made ZERO business sense. Colbert and company dropped the ball with that move.

Also, the guy on the top of the list is proving he can't elevate his game come playoff time, and is more on the JAG level when the stakes are high.

[NorthCoast]

I think many of us felt the same about Ben at that time. To me, it always made ZERO business sense. Colbert and company dropped the ball with that move.

Also, the guy on the top of the list is proving he can't elevate his game come playoff time, and is more on the JAG level when the stakes are high.

Jerrah is gonna regret that signing.

[Bawb the Revelator]

I said it at the time.. and I'll say it in hindsight.. our extending Ben prior to the 2019 season was one of the worst moves weve made in the last decade. It was a panic move that cost us dearly. At that time (and at his age) we shouldve been focused on one year deals.. he wasn't going anywhere at that point in his career..
You've just illustrated a point I've tried to make about QBs and the NFL Draft: "It's ALWAYS better to make a trade a year too soon than a year too late." Following this rule has kept the LA Dodgers contenders for the World Series championships since the early 1940s.

HARD AND FAST RULE: ALL NFL Draft simulators become OBSOLETE the moment any team selection differs from that simulator's predicted choice.

I've always been a Steeler fan but NEVER was a "Ben fan" - nor anyone else's "fan." In 2016, 5 years after losing to Green Bay, I wondered: "What has Ben done lately for the Steelers?" Going 2 and 1 in 3 SB appearances with one of the wins as WORST WINNING QB RATING EVER made all the "Future HOFer" crapola just that :)

Trading the "Future HOFer" in 2016 would have brought the Steelers top players plus tons of future draft picks. At the very least they wouldn't owe Ben $10 million in 2022. But what do I know? :)

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I said it at the time.. and I'll say it in hindsight.. our extending Ben prior to the 2019 season was one of the worst moves weve made in the last decade. It was a panic move that cost us dearly. At that time (and at his age) we shouldve been focused on one year deals.. he wasnt going anywhere at that point in his career..
It was a cap thing and they were kicking the can down the road. The big problem is that at some point this after the fact, Signing Bonus money ($10M dead, this year) was going to come due. Extending helped to spread that out over more years instead of making them eat it at that time. They had themselves trapped until he was truly done...

THEN.... Unfortunately, starting 11-0 two seasons ago made them think they could try 1 more run at it, even with a crap o-line

[Northern_Blitz]

I wasn't a huge fan of the last big extension when it happened...but I understand why the team did it.

I think it made sense to do the max restructure when he was coming back from the injury because it looked like the D was going to be good enough to carry the team.

The cost of that was him having the largest cap hit in the league last offseason.

I wasn't a huge fan of having him come back, but I guess they wanted to spread that massive hit out a bit more.

I didn't like the idea of the victory lap season for Ben. But it was nice to see him crush the hearts of the Browns and Rats for one more season.

[NorthCoast]

On the other hand, Steeler fans should consider ourselves lucky we had a franchise QB in his prime during the vast draft wasteland of QBs from 2009-2016. Here's a list of the first 5 QBs selected. The blue highlighted are the QBs that profootballreference has assigned an AV of 50 or greater;

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52029311924_87b5db9f91_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

And when you consider the Steelers average draft position, without a significant trade up, the list of realistically available QBs is downright ugly aside from a select few.

[Northern_Blitz]

On the other hand, Steeler fans should consider ourselves lucky we had a franchise QB in his prime during the vast draft wasteland of QBs from 2009-2016. Here's a list of the first 5 QBs selected. The blue highlighted are the QBs that profootballreference has assigned an AV of 50 or greater;

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52029311924_87b5db9f91_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

And when you consider the Steelers average draft position, without a significant trade up, the list of realistically available QBs is downright ugly aside from a select few.

We certainly lucked out that in one of the few years we had a pick (almost) in the top 10, it was also basically the best draft ever for QBs.

I think it will be very interesting to see how many QBs go in the 1st this year.

And since we need another backup now, I wonder if we take Strong late. Maybe in the 3rd...probably doesn't last to the 4th, right? Although I generally don't like mid-round QBs...I feel like he's got some upside if his knee doesn't fail.

[NorthCoast]

We certainly lucked out that in one of the few years we had a pick (almost) in the top 10, it was also basically the best draft ever for QBs.

I think it will be very interesting to see how many QBs go in the 1st this year.

And since we need another backup now, I wonder if we take Strong late. Maybe in the 3rd...probably doesn't last to the 4th, right? Although I generally don't like mid-round QBs...I feel like he's got some upside if his knee doesn't fail.

Strong in the 3rd would be a good value when balancing talent vs risk.

[flippy]

On the other hand, Steeler fans should consider ourselves lucky we had a franchise QB in his prime during the vast draft wasteland of QBs from 2009-2016. Here's a list of the first 5 QBs selected. The blue highlighted are the QBs that profootballreference has assigned an AV of 50 or greater;

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52029311924_87b5db9f91_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngDPL9) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

And when you consider the Steelers average draft position, without a significant trade up, the list of realistically available QBs is downright ugly aside from a select few.

Extending this to 2021, the only guys we could have gotten that may have been viable starters but not even great are:

Bridgewater
Carr
Garappolo
Dak
Lamar Jackson
Jalen Hurts
Gardner Minshew
Davis Mills

That's 8 potential starters available to us in the draft over 13 years.

Bottom line is most of the QBs don't work out and are mediocre at best.

Your list left off Dak in 2016 who is an above average QB.

[Northern_Blitz]

Strong in the 3rd would be a good value when balancing talent vs risk.

I kind of think so too.

But QBs are so binary in terms of hit / miss.

At least if you miss on a safety (or something) in the mid rounds, they can contribute on ST or something. Maybe rotate in for some kind of sub package.

Backup QBs have pretty low value to the team IMO. And are probably pretty easily had via UFA.

But maybe Strong can be something since his best skill seems to be throwing the football...which (spoiler alert) seems to be a good skill for a QB to have.

[NorthCoast]

Extending this to 2021, the only guys we could have gotten that may have been viable starters but not even great are:

Bridgewater
Carr
Garappolo
Dak
Lamar Jackson
Jalen Hurts
Gardner Minshew
Davis Mills

That's 8 potential starters available to us in the draft over 13 years.

Bottom line is most of the QBs don't work out and are mediocre at best.

Your list left off Dak in 2016 who is an above average QB.I only showed the first 5 QBs taken. Dak was the 8th QB in that draft. If I showed all of the drafted QBs it gets even uglier.

Honestly, when I started looking at this it was a little depressing because it reminded me so much of the Steeler 80s-90s QB doldrums....:(

[NorthCoast]

I kind of think so too.

But QBs are so binary in terms of hit / miss.

At least if you miss on a safety (or something) in the mid rounds, they can contribute on ST or something. Maybe rotate in for some kind of sub package.

Backup QBs have pretty low value to the team IMO. And are probably pretty easily had via UFA.

But maybe Strong can be something since his best skill seems to be throwing the football...which (spoiler alert) seems to be a good skill for a QB to have.Good way to put it. But if the Steelers take a QB in any other round besides the first, does that mean they weren't really sold on him as the next franchise QB?? I mean, if they thought he was a franchise QB why are they grabbing him at the first opportunity? This goes for any of the QBs, not just Strong.

[whisper]

Yep. Ten million for a retired player. For us it is six years and zero playoff wins.

All that talent and zero playoff wins. Gotta wonder about the head coach. If not now, when?

[flippy]

I only showed the first 5 QBs taken. Dak was the 8th QB in that draft. If I showed all of the drafted QBs it gets even uglier.

Honestly, when I started looking at this it was a little depressing because it reminded me so much of the Steeler 80s-90s QB doldrums....:(

He was the only one I could remember being taken later recently along with Minshew in later years.

Your list did get me depressed and made me realize, these QBs really are a crap shoot and most don't work out.

Odds are 1 will be ok from this year's class. 2 if we're lucky.

But realize with none of them being a clear #1 or #2 pick, the odds are even longer any will pan out and that's why I've been leaning more into drafting BPA and taking Coan later. Or Strong earlier if you must.

In a normal year, most of these QBs are 2-4th rounders at best.

[Northern_Blitz]

Good way to put it. But if the Steelers take a QB in any other round besides the first, does that mean they weren't really sold on him as the next franchise QB?? I mean, if they thought he was a franchise QB why are they grabbing him at the first opportunity? This goes for any of the QBs, not just Strong.

I agree.

And before Haskins passed, i hated the idea.

But now we need a 3rd QB for the longer term.

Maybe Strong can be a starter too. If not, he can be the 2 for a while. Mason is gone after this season. And Mitch will be the starter for a while or gone soon after Mason.

Strong would at least he under contract for 4 years.

[whisper]

I only showed the first 5 QBs taken. Dak was the 8th QB in that draft. If I showed all of the drafted QBs it gets even uglier.

Honestly, when I started looking at this it was a little depressing because it reminded me so much of the Steeler 80s-90s QB doldrums....:(

What "doldrums?" We had Malone....errrr, I mean Stoudt...errrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I mean Woodley...errrrrrrr, I mean Bubby...errrrrrrrrrr, I mean O'Donnell...errrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I mean Tomczak....errrrrrr, I mean Kordell....sigh.

[NorthCoast]

What "doldrums?" We had Malone....errrr, I mean Stoudt...errrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I mean Woodley...errrrrrrr, I mean Bubby...errrrrrrrrrr, I mean O'Donnell...errrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I mean Tomczak....errrrrrr, I mean Kordell....sigh.Yea. At least Korky gets a 'sigh'....:D.
I hate to think about it but the chances of striking gold drafting two franchise QBs in a row seem awfully low.

[NJ-STEELER]

Wheres the rank of highest paid head coaches and playoff wins the last 3 years

[crushedspirit]

Wheres the rank of highest paid head coaches and playoff wins the last 3 years

Hard to say since some franchises do not disclose coach salaries.

Playoff wins last 3 seasons,

Reid (7-2) SBW, SBL
McVay (5-1) SBW
Arians (5-1) SBW
Shanahan (4-2) SBL
Taylor (3-1) SBL
McDermott (3-3)
Vrabel (2-3)
LaFleur (2-3)
Stefanski (1-1)
Zimmer (1-1)
Harbaugh (1-2)
Payton (1-2)
Carroll (1-2)
Reich (0-1)
Gruden (0-1)
McCarthy (0-1)
Sirianni (0-1)
Rivera (0-1)
Nagy (0-1)
Kingsbury (0-1)
Hoodie (0-2)
Tomlin (0-2)

[NorthCoast]

Wheres the rank of highest paid head coaches and playoff wins the last 3 yearsDon't know how accurate it is but this says Tomlin was right along side his QB at #8;


https://briefly.co.za/106842-nfl-coaches-salaries-2021-list-top-nfl-coaches-pay.html#:~:text=The%20average%20NFL%20coach%20sal ary%2C%20according%20to%20Forbes%2C,salary%2C%20th ey%20also%20get%20other%20allowances%20and%20bonus es.

[Steel Maniac]

I agree.

And before Haskins passed, i hated the idea.

But now we need a 3rd QB for the longer term.

Maybe Strong can be a starter too. If not, he can be the 2 for a while. Mason is gone after this season. And Mitch will be the starter for a while or gone soon after Mason.

Strong would at least he under contract for 4 years.

Ridder and Strong are two interesting prospects.

[crushedspirit]

Don't know how accurate it is but this says Tomlin was right along side his QB at #8;


https://briefly.co.za/106842-nfl-coaches-salaries-2021-list-top-nfl-coaches-pay.html#:~:text=The%20average%20NFL%20coach%20sal ary%2C%20according%20to%20Forbes%2C,salary%2C%20th ey%20also%20get%20other%20allowances%20and%20bonus es.

His extension put him over 11.5/season. He's one of the highest paid, as per the Sportico report in November.


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/11/mike-tomlin-one-of-highest-paid-coaches-in-sports-per-sportico-report/

[NJ-STEELER]

A lot of money spent and not much in return. Keep in mind the Steelers are on the hook for $10M for Roethlisberger this season. Need to add that into the position spending. They are now 27th in the NFL for active QB cap hits, but adding the $10M puts them at about the mid-point of the league for the QB position.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52026444679_67faf87a5e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2ngp8qT) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

I guess he’s counting the 2019 season where ben played 2 games.

[Northern_Blitz]

I guess he’s counting the 2019 season where ben played 2 games.

Pretty sure he still got paid, right?

It is too bad Ben didn't play that year. The D almost certainly could have carried him further than it did Mason / Duck. We would have been a pretty good team if we could have had average QB play that year.

Although, we probably don't get Minkah without the Ben injury so the entire season would have been different.

[feltdizz]

Pretty sure he still got paid, right?

It is too bad Ben didn't play that year. The D almost certainly could have carried him further than it did Mason / Duck. We would have been a pretty good team if we could have had average QB play that year.

Although, we probably don't get Minkah without the Ben injury so the entire season would have been different.

and based on these last few years I have a hard time believing we would’ve won a playoff game in 2019.

Just didnt have it anymore

[NJ-STEELER]

Pretty sure he still got paid, .

Yes. I’m just wondering who would get playoffs wins missing all but 2 games of the season

Pretty odd of the author.

The defense was studly that year. But we’ve seen them collapse come playoff time so who knows

[Northern_Blitz]

Yes. I’m just wondering who would get playoffs wins missing all but 2 games of the season

Pretty odd of the author.

The defense was studly that year. But we’ve seen them collapse come playoff time so who knows

Sure. He's talking about return on investment. And the investment happens whether he's healthy or not.

I think that missing the playoffs in one of those years due to injury might have been easier to overlook if he didn't have basically the worst playoff game ever vs. the Browns...at least the worst half ever.

I get why they paid Ben in that last big extension. They didn't want to have another QB go out hating the team. And it wasn't even all that bad a bet seeing how other QBs played pretty late with the new rules that do everything they can to protect QBs. Especially since picking a new QB is also pretty much always a bad bet.

And I also get why we did the full restructure. I think it was the right thing to do to preserve our last good chance to win a SB with Ben. But the D just couldn't carry the offense far enough. And the offense couldn't stop shooting itself in the foot in the playoff game against the Browns.

[NJ-STEELER]

You’re talking about ben post injury.

the contract was done pre injury.
I don’t think it’s going too far out of a limb to say h the Steelers have won a playoff game If ben played like he did in the previous playoff game. And the defense doesn’t collapse like we saw against Cleveland as well