The NFL need to chage defenses

[Joel Buchsbaum]

And I'm surprised is hasn't happen yet. A QB killer, ideally a mobile linebacker or deluxe saftey player who key's on the QB 75% of the time. Mix it up, disguise him. If the QB drops back to pass he mirrors him and attacks after he crosses the line of scrimmage. Otherwise he's responsible to him vs. the run and only swithces after the ball leaves his hand. This way the big runs and yardage ( 50-80 yards a game ) won't happen. Of course if its 3rd and 10 or more yards to go he's in coverage. The days of QB's running and staying healthy are numbered.

[Mr.wizard]

You're describing a "Spy" the concept already exists.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

You're describing a "Spy" the concept already exists.

No, I am describing a player or players dedicated to stopping another player 75% of the time. Or if you prefer a more expanded role of a " spy " player.

This type of player would severely limit Qb rushing yards, and force them to pass. The " Spy " player would have a sort of zone pass defense until the Qb crosses the line of scrimmage. Most " running " defined as sub 4.6 guys Qb's are not good passers.

I see too many defenses caught in man defense, giving the Lamar Jackson green light to run. Not anymore. If he runs 1 ), a player is waiting for him, and 2) he is treated as a running back. That is to say, he'd better be durable.

[feltdizz]

No, I am describing a player or players dedicated to stopping another player 75% of the time. Or if you prefer a more expanded role of a " spy " player.

This type of player would severely limit Qb rushing yards, and force them to pass. The " Spy " player would have a sort of zone pass defense until the Qb crosses the line of scrimmage. Most " running " defined as sub 4.6 guys Qb's are not good passers.

I see too many defenses caught in man defense, giving the Lamar Jackson green light to run. Not anymore. If he runs 1 ), a player is waiting for him, and 2) he is treated as a running back. That is to say, he'd better be durable.

yes… a spy.

[NorthCoast]

I find it a bit ironic that a 'passing league' is now all about running QBs. The rules still favor the dropback passer that can read a defense and make an accurate throw. Look at the success of Mac Jones. The running QB is really a cover for a QB that can't read a defense or maybe an OC that is not good at gameplanning.

[Steel Maniac]

I find it a bit ironic that a 'passing league' is now all about running QBs. The rules still favor the dropback passer that can read a defense and make an accurate throw. Look at the success of Mac Jones. The running QB is really a cover for a QB that can't read a defense or maybe an OC that is not good at gameplanning.

Boom!!!!!!!!

And running qb’s ( aka Lamar Jackson) don’t win chips.

[Eich]

I find it a bit ironic that a 'passing league' is now all about running QBs. The rules still favor the dropback passer that can read a defense and make an accurate throw. Look at the success of Mac Jones. The running QB is really a cover for a QB that can't read a defense or maybe an OC that is not good at gameplanning.

I don't think the league is "all about running QBs". I think the league is all about mobile QBs. Mobility is clearly an advantage. But IMO, a run-first QB is a disadvantage. It is still clearly a passing league. And for that, you need a QB with pass-first mentality/talent with mobility to keep him out of danger.

The only way I see an elite running talent (and average or below passing talent) at QB, winning a lot of playoffs, is if he has an elite defense that stifles the opposing teams.

All you have to do is look at the QBs of the teams that have won the super bowl in the last 20 years.

[Steel Maniac]

I don't think the league is "all about running QBs". I think the league is all about mobile QBs. Mobility is clearly an advantage. But IMO, a run-first QB is a disadvantage. It is still clearly a passing league. And for that, you need a QB with pass-first mentality/talent with mobility to keep him out of danger.

The only way I see an elite running talent (and average or below passing talent) at QB, winning a lot of playoffs, is if he has an elite defense that stifles the opposing teams.

All you have to do is look at the QBs of the teams that have won the super bowl in the last 20 years.

AKA Lamar Jackson.

But here’s the problem, when you hit the playoffs , eventually you run into a team that lights up your defense and then the qb is required to win a game for you with his arm.

Thus .. that QB gets exposed. Which is why run first qb’s have never won a chip.

[WindyCitySteel]

I find it a bit ironic that a 'passing league' is now all about running QBs. The rules still favor the dropback passer that can read a defense and make an accurate throw. Look at the success of Mac Jones. The running QB is really a cover for a QB that can't read a defense or maybe an OC that is not good at gameplanning.

That's why I like Strong, unless the knee is degenerative.

[flippy]

I don't think the league is "all about running QBs". I think the league is all about mobile QBs. Mobility is clearly an advantage. But IMO, a run-first QB is a disadvantage. It is still clearly a passing league. And for that, you need a QB with pass-first mentality/talent with mobility to keep him out of danger.

The only way I see an elite running talent (and average or below passing talent) at QB, winning a lot of playoffs, is if he has an elite defense that stifles the opposing teams.

All you have to do is look at the QBs of the teams that have won the super bowl in the last 20 years.

I generally agree here. But also consider 20 years is a long time and it's about time for the league to start shifting back to Defense and Running.

As guys get smaller and quicker, there's more investment in certain players and teams that build differently to run the ball, stop the run, and physically dominate their opponents can shift the league back in another direction.

Just think back to a time when you could draft Edge defenders later in the draft. Now there's a premium on those guys and the good ones aren't going to last much beyond the end of round 1.

There's always an opportunity to zig when everyone else is zagging. And I'm not ready to dismiss team's like Baltimore that are building their running games and Ds. LJ makes Baltimore a better rushing team. Most teams are building to stop the pass. This gives a team like Baltimore an advantage because that's only going to make it even easier to run. And the better they run, the better their D will be.

It's a virtuous cycle. But can you afford to pay your QB the going QB rate if he's not going to play like a going rate QB?

Maybe I'm a little bit of a homer, but I'm still thinking the Ravens and Steelers building their teams to beat one another is going to set them up to eventually beat any one else as they're running their teams counter to everyone else. And I even think that's why we're interested in Willis so much. We want a guy that can run and that can RPO and open things up for Najee.

Najee + D + a good enough QB is going to carry the day.

That said, Trubisky might be good enough. Let's go upgrade the OLine, Dline, DBs, and WRs to get this team over the hump.

[feltdizz]

With offenses spreading defenses out it becomes much easier to run a
few times a game to move the chains.

[feltdizz]

I find it a bit ironic that a 'passing league' is now all about running QBs. The rules still favor the dropback passer that can read a defense and make an accurate throw. Look at the success of Mac Jones. The running QB is really a cover for a QB that can't read a defense or maybe an OC that is not good at gameplanning.

What success has Mac Jones had as a pocket passer? Wasn’t he just blown out in his first playoff game?

If Mac Jones was a mobile QB who made it to the playoffs his first year and lost people would use it as an example of how mobile QB’s can’t succeed in the playoffs.

Funny how agendas work.

[feltdizz]

AKA Lamar Jackson.

But here’s the problem, when you hit the playoffs , eventually you run into a team that lights up your defense and then the qb is required to win a game for you with his arm.

Thus .. that QB gets exposed. Which is why run first qb’s have never won a chip.

like Mac Jones? lol…

oh wait, that probably wasn’t what you had in mind when you made this post.

Bills 47
Pats 17

What makes it even funnier is the Pats had just beat the Bills in Buffalo when Mac Jones only attempted 3 passes.

We’ve seen the Steelers blown out in multiple playoff games with a pocket QB who is a HOFer.

The reality is winning in the playoffs is HARD regardless of the type of QB a team has under center.

and if we want to be honest usually running QB’s and run heavy offenses who make the playoffs usually keep games closer because they take time off the clock and keep the other team’s offense on the sideline.

Look at Tannehill and Jimmy G. Those guys are eating well because they rarely have to make plays with their arms but unfortunately when they do.. the results usually aren’t pretty.

[NorthCoast]

What success has Mac Jones had as a pocket passer? Wasn’t he just blown out in his first playoff game?

If Mac Jones was a mobile QB who made it to the playoffs his first year and lost people would use it as an example of how mobile QB’s can’t succeed in the playoffs.

Funny how agendas work.As a rookie he was top half of the league in TD passes. Better than a lot of multi-year starters including Garopollo, Ryan, Tannehill, and Mayfield among others.

[NorthCoast]

What success has Mac Jones had as a pocket passer? Wasn’t he just blown out in his first playoff game?

If Mac Jones was a mobile QB who made it to the playoffs his first year and lost people would use it as an example of how mobile QB’s can’t succeed in the playoffs.

Funny how agendas work.QBs that have won the last 10 SBs;

Mobile QBs (>100yds):
Mahomes
Wilson

Non-mobile QBs (<100yds rushing in SB season):
Stafford
Brady
Foles
P Manning
Flacco
E Manning

You're being blinded by the latest fad in the NFL.

[Northern_Blitz]

QBs that have won the last 10 SBs;

Mobile QBs (>100yds):
Mahomes
Wilson

Non-mobile QBs (<100yds rushing in SB season):
Stafford
Brady
Foles
P Manning
Flacco
E Manning

You're being blinded by the latest fad in the NFL.

I agree that this is probably a copycat thing trying to find the next Mahomes.

But being able to keep plays alive with your feet is a great skill to have. Ben made his career doing this too.

Ultimately, I think it's a "nice to have" rather than a "have to have".

I also wonder if part of the desire for mobility is that it's easier to scout. You can tell with a fairly high degree of certainty who will be able to run fast and evade tacklers at the NFL level.

But no one seems to know how to scout how successful a QB will be at passing. Even P Manning wasn't necessarily a lock to go 1st. And Leaf ended up sucking.

If that's true, then maybe fixating on mobility is like being the fool in the parking lot looking for his keys under the streetlight? He knows they aren't there, but at least it's bright enough to look.

[NorthCoast]

I agree that this is probably a copycat thing trying to find the next Mahomes.

But being able to keep plays alive with your feet is a great skill to have. Ben made his career doing this too.

Ultimately, I think it's a "nice to have" rather than a "have to have".

I also wonder if part of the desire for mobility is that it's easier to scout. You can tell with a fairly high degree of certainty who will be able to run fast and evade tacklers at the NFL level.

But no one seems to know how to scout how successful a QB will be at passing. Even P Manning wasn't necessarily a lock to go 1st. And Leaf ended up sucking.

If that's true, then maybe fixating on mobility is like being the fool in the parking lot looking for his keys under the streetlight? He knows they aren't there, but at least it's bright enough to look.I had to look it up. Roethlisberger's peak rushing season was 2007. Then I saw the starting OL and understood. He was running for his life!!

[feltdizz]

QBs that have won the last 10 SBs;

Mobile QBs (>100yds):
Mahomes
Wilson

Non-mobile QBs (<100yds rushing in SB season):
Stafford
Brady
Foles
P Manning
Flacco
E Manning

You're being blinded by the latest fad in the NFL.

only one blind is you my friend. When did I ask about the last 10 SB winners?

My point is “success” is measured differently when it comes to a Mac Jones vs a mobile QB.

Mobile QB makes the playoffs and loses a close game.. “he is a failure, this is why mobile QB’s don’t work”

Mac Jones gets blown out in his first post season appearance and its “successful”

For the record, I think making the playoffs and losing the first year IS success I was just being sarcastic.

[Mr.wizard]

No, I am describing a player or players dedicated to stopping another player 75% of the time. Or if you prefer a more expanded role of a " spy " player.

This type of player would severely limit Qb rushing yards, and force them to pass. The " Spy " player would have a sort of zone pass defense until the Qb crosses the line of scrimmage. Most " running " defined as sub 4.6 guys Qb's are not good passers.

I see too many defenses caught in man defense, giving the Lamar Jackson green light to run. Not anymore. If he runs 1 ), a player is waiting for him, and 2) he is treated as a running back. That is to say, he'd better be durable.

You are still describing a spy.

[feltdizz]

You are still describing a spy.

Dude was like.. no not a spy, I’m talking about a SPY!!!

I think more teams are doing this but its still risky because you have one less guy in coverage and he still has to be fast enough to catch Lamar or Kyler.

They used to try this with Vick.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

only one blind is you my friend. When did I ask about the last 10 SB winners?

My point is “success” is measured differently when it comes to a Mac Jones vs a mobile QB.

Mobile QB makes the playoffs and loses a close game.. “he is a failure, this is why mobile QB’s don’t work”

Mac Jones gets blown out in his first post season appearance and its “successful”

For the record, I think making the playoffs and losing the first year IS success I was just being sarcastic.

Jones isn't part of the this thread yet he did the most on the team with bad skill players of the rookie QB's. Back to my point defense against a mobile qb like the one the Bear's choose.

[Mr.wizard]

Dude was like.. no not a spy, I’m talking about a SPY!!!

I think more teams are doing this but its still risky because you have one less guy in coverage and he still has to be fast enough to catch Lamar or Kyler.

They used to try this with Vick.

The best defense against Mobile QB's has been and will always be pressure.