OT: Stephon Diggs latest WR to cash in

[WindyCitySteel]

4 years, $104M, $70M guaranteed. This essentially makes DJ unsignable. Just draft a guy this year in round 1 and let him play out his deal and leave.


https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1511679690121125891?s=20&t=2gbFRBDhMo-cOxQGMmkMKg

[crushedspirit]

Wow, 70 mil guaranteed for a 28yr old WR?

You're going to see many regrets from these teams signing all these aging WRs at inflated prices. I honestly believe Hill, Adams, and now Diggs, will all not even come close to the production required to make the value of their contract seem acceptable. Look at Arizona with Hopkins last season, they gave him almost 43 mil guaranteed to watch him contribute 572 yds of offense with 8tds. Good luck to these teams.

[WindyCitySteel]

Yep, incredibly dumb. So many good WRs in this and every draft, too.

[Eich]

What is wrong with teams??? Not long ago, that was QB money. It's not like the cap has been increasing through the roof.

[Steel Maniac]

Yep, incredibly dumb. So many good WRs in this and every draft, too.

Incredibly dumb.

[JIMBO]

The economics of this whole thing makes a WR a given in the first round even if it is Jameson Williams who has to sit for six months!

[feltdizz]

Wow, 70 mil guaranteed for a 28yr old WR?

You're going to see many regrets from these teams signing all these aging WRs at inflated prices. I honestly believe Hill, Adams, and now Diggs, will all not even come close to the production required to make the value of their contract seem acceptable. Look at Arizona with Hopkins last season, they gave him almost 43 mil guaranteed to watch him contribute 572 yds of offense with 8tds. Good luck to these teams.

that was in 10 games..

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Okay, I'll play the other side of this coin.

This contract does not swing the WR market any further out of whack. Adams and Hill did that. This contract helps maintain that, but does not make it any worse. Unlike Adams and Hill, Diggs is a proven commodity for his team. He may be as responsible as anything else for the improvements of Allen, and this is a team that feels like it is right on the brink of a Lombardi. I'd say that Diggs is less of a gamble and more value than either of the earlier two deals.

I also don't believe that it has a big effect on DJ as he is not anywhere near the stratosphere of Diggs.

[feltdizz]

lmao.. the current CBA is set up to give vets more money.

Tried to tell yall the Bills know Diggs is a big reason Josh Allen has been successful.

Fans love draft picks and think it will lead to a SB.

Front offices love superstars and know that gives fans hope they will reach a SB.

The reality is these players are paid top dollar for the regular season. For 17 games (hopefully). The NFL isn’t just about the SB. Its about entertaining fans.

I think fans who always scream draft picks miss the point completely. These teams will still have draft picks to fill OTHER positions.

Every draft pick is a gamble, a lottery ticket.. not a sure shot, future HOFer.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Every draft pick is a gamble, a lottery ticket.. not a sure shot, future HOFer.

I thought every pick was the steal of the draft. :D

[feltdizz]

I thought every pick was the steal of the draft. :D

Haha.. right!!!

Its amazing how folks think every elite player can be replaced by a rookie in the draft.

[Northern_Blitz]

What is wrong with teams??? Not long ago, that was QB money. It's not like the cap has been increasing through the roof.

I think that teams are expecting the cap to increase quickly.

And maybe it's the idea that explosive plays are about as important as turnovers? And WRs are probably more likely to make explosive plays?

But 2nd WR contracts do seem to be getting into crazy territory.

[feltdizz]

What is wrong with teams??? Not long ago, that was QB money. It's not like the cap has been increasing through the roof.

QB’s are making $40+ a year now

and Watt and WR’s are making $25 to 30 now.

Its crazy times..

but these RB’s better never make more than $14 a year.. cause that’s crazy money

[WindyCitySteel]

QB’s are making $40+ a year now

and Watt and WR’s are making $25 to 30 now.

Its crazy times..

but these RB’s better never make more than $14 a year.. cause that’s crazy money

It is crazy money. RBs and WRs are fungible, easily replaced. Pay your QB, LT, EDGE, CB1. Those are the most important positions in the game and much harder to find in the draft.

[Buzz]

Just draft a guy this year in round 1 and let him play out his deal and leave.



$$$$$
Looks like the smart way to go when it comes to premium WRs, at least for the forseeable future

[crushedspirit]

that was in 10 games..

Yes, 10 games out of 17. Again, money not well spent.

Michael Thomas is another waste of money spent.

[crushedspirit]

Well, at least they can pay Diggs to run routes and attract coverage, while Davis catches everything, just like in the KC playoff game. Davis is going to explode this season barring any injury setbacks, bank on it.

[flippy]

Haha.. right!!!

Its amazing how folks think every elite player can be replaced by a rookie in the draft.

To replace Diggs in the draft, you essentially have to get the next Chase or Jefferson. Maybe Waddle?

If you have a top end QB, maybe picking WRs in the 2-4th rounds makes more sense. But maybe it's even harder to find the next Kupp who seems uncoverable. But even he needed a better QB to get to that next level.

[NorthCoast]

What is wrong with teams??? Not long ago, that was QB money. It's not like the cap has been increasing through the roof.Looking at the big money signings it's become pretty obvious the teams that are handing out the mega contracts are the ones that think they are only a piece or two away from a championship. They appear willing to pay any amount of money to get there. They don't have the luxury of a long window to develop a player from scratch. Fortunately that's not the Steelers this season.

[feltdizz]

Yes, 10 games out of 17. Again, money not well spent.

Michael Thomas is another waste of money spent.

injuries are part of the game.

If Watt gets hurt and misses 6 games next year is it a waste of money?

While I agree it will hurt financially you can’t approach contracts with that mindset or no one would ever get a 2nd contract.

and I know some of you would probably build a roster of nothing but first contract players thinking it was be successful.

[feltdizz]

It is crazy money. RBs and WRs are fungible, easily replaced. Pay your QB, LT, EDGE, CB1. Those are the most important positions in the game and much harder to find in the draft.

This isn’t true.

Who replaced AB’s production and presence at WR?

Its not easy to replace elite talent at any position.

Just because you draft a WR who can catch doesn’t mean he will be dynamic and a game changer. Those are much harder to find.

[feltdizz]

To replace Diggs in the draft, you essentially have to get the next Chase or Jefferson. Maybe Waddle?

If you have a top end QB, maybe picking WRs in the 2-4th rounds makes more sense. But maybe it's even harder to find the next Kupp who seems uncoverable. But even he needed a better QB to get to that next level.

True.. but I’m sure a few teams thought they drafted the next superstar at WR and things haven’t panned out.

Look at Claypool, JuJu and Bryant. They all looked like they would be special and trend upward every year but the opposite happened.

Jury is still out on Claypool and hopefully he IS the next great Steeler WR but some of the same folks yapping about how easy
it is are ready to trade Claypool.. lol.

[WindyCitySteel]

This isn’t true.

Who replaced AB’s production and presence at WR?

Its not easy to replace elite talent at any position.

Just because you draft a WR who can catch doesn’t mean he will be dynamic and a game changer. Those are much harder to find.

It's easy if you invest draft capital in the position. The Steelers don't spend 1st round picks at WR, get some decent 2s and 3s, but no top guys.

Packers and Chiefs can get legit #1 WRs on rookie deals and spend elsewhere.

[flippy]

and I know some of you would probably build a roster of nothing but first contract players thinking it was be successful.

I'm always intrigued by different points of view.

I've been watching the Winning Time series and wondering about team dynamics. Was it Buss, Magic, McKinney, etc. that made the Lakers?

I do think you need new people to spark new ideas. I don't think we're getting rid of the Rooneys or Tomlin, but it would be interesting to see what someone from the outside would do with the team. I do think if you want to make a huge impact you've gotta figure out something new/innovative that no one else is doing.

In the NFL that could be new systems. It could be new players. It could be paying for the best players at positions other team's undervalue that you have a clever twist to make them payoff.

I do think there is something to cycling thru WRs and lower value positions. At the same time, you have to pay somebody and sometimes you may not be able to get the top guy at a high value position and need to become stronger in a different area.

Not that I even think Diggs gets anyone over the hump. I like him and he's good and all, but he is just a really productive WR.

[NorthCoast]

I'm always intrigued by different points of view.

I've been watching the Winning Time series and wondering about team dynamics. Was it Buss, Magic, McKinney, etc. that made the Lakers?

I do think you need new people to spark new ideas. I don't think we're getting rid of the Rooneys or Tomlin, but it would be interesting to see what someone from the outside would do with the team. I do think if you want to make a huge impact you've gotta figure out something new/innovative that no one else is doing.

In the NFL that could be new systems. It could be new players. It could be paying for the best players at positions other team's undervalue that you have a clever twist to make them payoff.

I do think there is something to cycling thru WRs and lower value positions. At the same time, you have to pay somebody and sometimes you may not be able to get the top guy at a high value position and need to become stronger in a different area.

Not that I even think Diggs gets anyone over the hump. I like him and he's good and all, but he is just a really productive WR.I am guessing the NFL is a lot like the corporate world where the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the HCs work their tails off to be innovative, study opponents to the nth degree, and are top students of the game. The other 80% are trying to catch up or simply trying to copy what others are doing.

[Northern_Blitz]

To replace Diggs in the draft, you essentially have to get the next Chase or Jefferson. Maybe Waddle?

If you have a top end QB, maybe picking WRs in the 2-4th rounds makes more sense. But maybe it's even harder to find the next Kupp who seems uncoverable. But even he needed a better QB to get to that next level.

I think that's the key.

You can afford very expensive skill players when you have a QB on a rookie deal.

But if you load up on expensive skill guys when you have a market level contract, you probably won't have much left over to put a good team around them.

My guess is that we won't seem as good at drafting WRs when it's not Ben that's throwing to them.

[NJ-STEELER]

The economics of this whole thing makes a WR a given in the first round even if it is Jameson Williams who has to sit for six months!

I’ve been a strong advocate of drafting receivers in the 1st in the past.
but I wouldn’t do it with the current QBs on the roster.

[feltdizz]

I'm always intrigued by different points of view.

I've been watching the Winning Time series and wondering about team dynamics. Was it Buss, Magic, McKinney, etc. that made the Lakers?

I do think you need new people to spark new ideas. I don't think we're getting rid of the Rooneys or Tomlin, but it would be interesting to see what someone from the outside would do with the team. I do think if you want to make a huge impact you've gotta figure out something new/innovative that no one else is doing.

In the NFL that could be new systems. It could be new players. It could be paying for the best players at positions other team's undervalue that you have a clever twist to make them payoff.

I do think there is something to cycling thru WRs and lower value positions. At the same time, you have to pay somebody and sometimes you may not be able to get the top guy at a high value position and need to become stronger in a different area.

Not that I even think Diggs gets anyone over the hump. I like him and he's good and all, but he is just a really productive WR.
Love this show

Obviously it was Magic.

Buss buying the team and pushing to draft Magic played a part but Magic with the ball in his hands turned boring basketball into something fun to watch.

and Diggs is just a productive WR like Mahommes is a productive QB.

Everyone is just “somebody” when its a team game but there are only so many “just productive WR’s” every year and its comes down to the team deciding which ones they can or can’t live without.

[flippy]

Love this show

Obviously it was Magic.

Buss buying the team and pushing to draft Magic played a part but Magic with the ball in his hands turned boring basketball into something fun to watch.

and Diggs is just a productive WR like Mahommes is a productive QB.

Everyone is just “somebody” when its a team game but there are only so many “just productive WR’s” every year and its comes down to the team deciding which ones they can or can’t live without.

It's definitely one of the best shows and it kills me waiting to see the next episode even though I know what's going to happen.

Clearly it was Magic. But without Buss, I'm not sure they draft him cause Jerry West didn't seem to want him.

And without McKinney, does Magic ever get into the right system? And it kinda seems McKinney was an afterthought, but without him is Kareem the central figure for the Lakers?

It's almost like there's too many little accidents that make everything come together.

And I keep wonder how much is just for the sake of the story. Like Jerry T controlled by the mob? Kobe being a baby and attending Magic's first game was kinda weird. The Jeanie angle seems to really be getting pressed hard.

Whatever, it's a great show. And it does kinda tie into a lot of the convos people around here have.

[crushedspirit]

Maybe I just think differently when it comes to WRs, RBs, and TEs. If they are soon to be 30, I won't be keeping them at an inflated price, no matter what. I will exchange for draft picks, and let another team pay him top dollar.

For the younger guys who produce, I'll look for a cap friendly deal, or use the franchise tag when the circumstances warrant it. Most cap money spent will go to my QB (if I get lucky to find a good one), OL and DL for sure, followed by LBs and DBs.

[crushedspirit]

Too many times in the NFL I see teams paying some of those skilled positions inflated contracts based on past production, and they rarely ever match what they're paid going forward.

[feltdizz]

It's definitely one of the best shows and it kills me waiting to see the next episode even though I know what's going to happen.

Clearly it was Magic. But without Buss, I'm not sure they draft him cause Jerry West didn't seem to want him.

And without McKinney, does Magic ever get into the right system? And it kinda seems McKinney was an afterthought, but without him is Kareem the central figure for the Lakers?

It's almost like there's too many little accidents that make everything come together.

And I keep wonder how much is just for the sake of the story. Like Jerry T controlled by the mob? Kobe being a baby and attending Magic's first game was kinda weird. The Jeanie angle seems to really be getting pressed hard.

Whatever, it's a great show. And it does kinda tie into a lot of the convos people around here have.

A few things about the show and then I will get back to football.

McKinney seemed like he didn’t want Kareem because he was slowing the game down and didn’t want to run uptempo all game.

Buss was definitely instrumental in getting Magic to the Lakers. I don’t even think he buys the team if Magic wasn’t available.

McKinney def gets credit for that uptempo to. That was revolutionary and does Michael Cooper make the team if he doesn’t get to showcase his high flying finishes in transition?

The Tark mob connection was real. His partner wasn’t killed as a threat but he was found in a car trunk filled with bullets but it was due to his gambling debts.

Kobe’s dad played 32 minutes in the home opener. There is no evidence Kobe was there but he was 1 years old at the time.

Jeanie Buss is a big part of the story because she was a major influence and eventually because team president.

There are a few sites that fact check after each episode. Of course some of it is embellished for TV but a lot of these things actually happened.

Here is a good one that fact checks after each episode.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2022/3/22/22979962/winning-time-fact-checking-hbo-series-showtime-lakers-jerry-buss-magic-johnson-jerry-west-pat-riley

[Northern_Blitz]

It's easy if you invest draft capital in the position. The Steelers don't spend 1st round picks at WR, get some decent 2s and 3s, but no top guys.

Packers and Chiefs can get legit #1 WRs on rookie deals and spend elsewhere.

We invest lots of draft capital at WR, just not 1st round.

We had 3 second rounders and one 3rd on the team last year.

It's not like everyone was a 6th like AB.

This was a good plan with a good QB IMO. Don't spend money on 2nd contract, but churn young and cheap talent. Let the QB elevate the WRs.

[flippy]

A few things about the show and then I will get back to football.

McKinney seemed like he didn’t want Kareem because he was slowing the game down and didn’t want to run uptempo all game.

Buss was definitely instrumental in getting Magic to the Lakers. I don’t even think he buys the team if Magic wasn’t available.

McKinney def gets credit for that uptempo to. That was revolutionary and does Michael Cooper make the team if he doesn’t get to showcase his high flying finishes in transition?

The Tark mob connection was real. His partner wasn’t killed as a threat but he was found in a car trunk filled with bullets but it was due to his gambling debts.

Kobe’s dad played 32 minutes in the home opener. There is no evidence Kobe was there but he was 1 years old at the time.

Jeanie Buss is a big part of the story because she was a major influence and eventually because team president.

There are a few sites that fact check after each episode. Of course some of it is embellished for TV but a lot of these things actually happened.

Here is a good one that fact checks after each episode.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2022/3/22/22979962/winning-time-fact-checking-hbo-series-showtime-lakers-jerry-buss-magic-johnson-jerry-west-pat-riley

Thx for the link!!

I definitely remember some of it but I do keep wondering how much is real vs made for tv. I half heard the real Magic calling it out for inaccuracies and saying he wouldn’t watch it. Might be overblown, but it’s out there.

Any way it all seems relevant in times of change. Not sure we’re the team setting all the new standards and breaking ground in the NFL right now, but it would be awesome if we got a GM that brought something revolutionary along the lines of the showtime.

[flippy]

We invest lots of draft capital at WR, just not 1st round.

We had 3 second rounders and one 3rd on the team last year.

It's not like everyone was a 6th like AB.

This was a good plan with a good QB IMO. Don't spend money on 2nd contract, but churn young and cheap talent. Let the QB elevate the WRs.

I do wonder if we pick guys in certain rounds because of future contract prices. Like Edmunds or Najee as 1st rounders knowing that too S and RBs are going to be worth less on the second contract and we might be able to keep them longer if they work out.

[feltdizz]

Thx for the link!!

I definitely remember some of it but I do keep wondering how much is real vs made for tv. I half heard the real Magic calling it out for inaccuracies and saying he wouldn’t watch it. Might be overblown, but it’s out there.

Any way it all seems relevant in times of change. Not sure we’re the team setting all the new standards and breaking ground in the NFL right now, but it would be awesome if we got a GM that brought something revolutionary along the lines of the showtime.

Magic is working on his own documentary for Apple+

I’m sure players are upset but even with Michael Jordans doc you had former players saying some of it was bullsh#t.

Horace Grant said it was BS. Pippen was furious, Harper and others voiced their displeasure as well.

Whether its satire or first hand its still going to have gaps because whoever is in charge is going to make themselves look good or better than others.

So I actually appreciate this show and the way they are showing the warts of all the people involved.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Thx for the link!!

I definitely remember some of it but I do keep wondering how much is real vs made for tv. I half heard the real Magic calling it out for inaccuracies and saying he wouldn’t watch it. Might be overblown, but it’s out there.

Any way it all seems relevant in times of change. Not sure we’re the team setting all the new standards and breaking ground in the NFL right now, but it would be awesome if we got a GM that brought something revolutionary along the lines of the showtime.

There is a fine line between revolutionary and crackpot:

Jerry Buss......Jerry Jones

[WindyCitySteel]

There is a fine line between revolutionary and crackpot:

Jerry Buss......Jerry Jones

Jones won 3 Super Bowls in 4 seasons.

[Northern_Blitz]

I do wonder if we pick guys in certain rounds because of future contract prices. Like Edmunds or Najee as 1st rounders knowing that too S and RBs are going to be worth less on the second contract and we might be able to keep them longer if they work out.

I could see part of this (a) being intentional and part being (b) a combination of us liking to guy guys we think are 1st or 2nd best at their position and picking late means that the best guys at the most expensive positions are generally gone.

[feltdizz]

Jones won 3 Super Bowls in 4 seasons.

thanks to Jimmy Johnson building those teams through the draft.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Jones won 3 Super Bowls in 4 seasons.

And fired the guy responsible.