DK Metcalf rumors

[Oviedo]

Rumor is Seattle may consider trading him for the right price since they are in full rebuild mode.

What would you be willing to give up to get him?

[WindyCitySteel]

Nothing. WRs are very replaceable.

[Oviedo]

Nothing. WRs are very replaceable.

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"

[Chucktownsteeler]

Nothing, regards to WR supply is keeping up or outpacing demand. We're about to mortgage the future (if what I am reading is correct) on an unproven QB.

[whisper]

Nothing. WRs are very replaceable.

Ditto, and he's good, but not "blow you away" good. Kind of like a little bit better Claypool.

[WindyCitySteel]

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"

Didn't realize he was so young - why wouldn't he be part of the rebuild?

I guess until you pay your next QB this is the kind of deal you make, but I still don't like paying WRs.

Put me down for a definite maybe.

[whisper]

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"

No, he's not. Not really, his 2nd year he put up 1,300 yards but last year he didn't even post 1,000 nor did he his 1st year.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MetcDK00.htm

Johnson was a receiving machine before the days of excessive passing days began. While his 1st 3 years were similar to Metcalf's, he really tore it up after that, which I don't anticipate DK doing. And he did it in Detroit.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCa00.htm

[Iron City Inc.]

rumor is seattle may consider trading him for the right price since they are in full rebuild mode.

What would you be willing to give up to get him?

d j............

[Dwinsgames]

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"
not even close ... he may look the part but until he puts up other worldly numbers while being triple teamed lets just leave the Megatron comparisons go as he isn't close to that player in production levels or dominance on the field ...

That said he is a good player no doubt but we won't be making offers for a WR , we rarely sign our own to second contracts and he is a UFA next season meaning trading for him demands a new deal or you wasted your picks you shipped away for him

[Steel Maniac]

WR are overrated. IF you don't have a legit QB, there's no point in investing millions in a WR. Miami is about to learn that lesson painfully from Tua IF he doesn't pan out to be a legit QB.

[hawaiiansteel]

no thanks to Metcalf.

he can go and be a diva somewhere else.

[SteelBucks]

no thanks to Metcalf.

he can go and be a diva somewhere else.

The contract would be difficult. At the same time, we do need a difference maker at WR that we’re currently lacking. I’ll change my tune if they make a splash in the draft.

[crushedspirit]

no thanks to Metcalf.

he can go and be a diva somewhere else.

Agreed

He does come off as someone who is on the edge of becoming a major distraction. Also, he will ask for 25-30 mil, so that's a big NO.

[NJ-STEELER]

I’d love the player.

but I look who would be throwing to him and think it’s a big waste

[feltdizz]

WR are overrated. IF you don't have a legit QB, there's no point in investing millions in a WR. Miami is about to learn that lesson painfully from Tua IF he doesn't pan out to be a legit QB.

I think its a bit of both.

People wondered how Josh Allen became so accurate.

Look who he was throwing to his rookie year vs last year.

When you go from Kelving Benjamin to Stephon Diggs you become a lot better as a QB.

[crushedspirit]

I think its a bit of both.

People wondered how Josh Allen became so accurate.

Look who he was throwing to his rookie year vs last year.

When you go from Kelving Benjamin to Stephon Diggs you become a lot better as a QB.

The slight problem with that theory is how do you explain Cole Beasley going from 63.2 to 76.6 catch % from 2019 to 2020. Then we have Diggs falling from 76.5 in 2020 to 62.8 in 2021.

I've watched Allen intently over the years, and he was wildly sporadic early on, and has cleaned it up some, but there a still a few glimpses sometimes. I think a QB helps a WR much more than the other way around, but yes, adding a top WR does help.

[Terrapin]

Since we don't have a legit QB I'd say probably not.

But, as a DK owner in a dynasty league, and someone that's followed him since his rookie season, yes, he is a legit difference maker. Forget his stats in Seattle. Wilson threw the ball 18 times a game because Pete Carroll is a moron stuck in the 60s. Getting DK would immediately have us go from a terrible WR corps, to one of the best in the league.

[feltdizz]

The slight problem with that theory is how do you explain Cole Beasley going from 63.2 to 76.6 catch % from 2019 to 2020. Then we have Diggs falling from 76.5 in 2020 to 62.8 in 2021.

I've watched Allen intently over the years, and he was wildly sporadic early on, and has cleaned it up some, but there a still a few glimpses sometimes. I think a QB helps a WR much more than the other way around, but yes, adding a top WR does help.

Not sure.. but it could be due to teams rolling more coverage towards Diggs after his first season in Buffalo when he had 1500 yards.

and Beasley’s numbers going up once Diggs arrived which gave him more room to operate.

Not sure those percentages indicate accuracy.

Another factor is 2020 was a covid year with empty stadiums and I think offenses performed better in 2020. Defenses were pretty bad to start the season in 2020.

But look at Josh Allens WR’s in 2018 vs 2021. That WR unit in 2018 was doo doo

[crushedspirit]

Not sure.. but it could be due to teams rolling more coverage towards Diggs after his first season in Buffalo when he had 1500 yards.

and Beasley’s numbers going up once Diggs arrived which gave him more room to operate.

Not sure those percentages indicate accuracy.

Another factor is 2020 was a covid year with empty stadiums and I think offenses performed better in 2020. Defenses were pretty bad to start the season in 2020.

But look at Josh Allens WR’s in 2018 vs 2021. That WR unit in 2018 was doo doo

Zay Jones LOL

Yup, it was bad for sure. I know Diggs made a difference when he arrived, but I did see Allen's mechanics change for the better, and it's well documented. I think Palmer and Chris Hess deserve much credit for his transformation.


https://www.sporttechie.com/josh-allen-embraces-technology-to-transform-himself-from-loose-cannon-to-maybe-a-3d-mvp

[Eich]

I think its a bit of both.

People wondered how Josh Allen became so accurate.

Look who he was throwing to his rookie year vs last year.

When you go from Kelving Benjamin to Stephon Diggs you become a lot better as a QB.

This.

It's a heck of a lot easier to throw to a talented receiver who can get open and has good hands. I'm not advocating for Metcalf at all but you need solid talent at the WR position, regardless of who you have at QB.

[Captain Lemming]

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"

The elite high paid receivers are the WORST value if you want a championship.

[Captain Lemming]

I think its a bit of both.

People wondered how Josh Allen became so accurate.

Look who he was throwing to his rookie year vs last year.

When you go from Kelving Benjamin to Stephon Diggs you become a lot better as a QB.

No Allen was simply inaccurate.
Believe me I saw him plenty before the NFL.

[Steel Maniac]

The elite high paid receivers are the WORST value if you want a championship.

Precisely.

[Captain Lemming]

Agree. Most are, but the elite difference makers aren't and Metcalf is in the latter category. He is the modern day version of "Megatron"

Interesting. Difference maker?

Megatron?
Funny how Matt Stanford has a ring...none with Megatron.

Funny how Russell has a ring...none with Metcalf.

Funny how Ben has TWO rings...none with the best receiver of an era Brown.

Funny how GOAT Brady has 6 rings...none with the best receiver since Rice- Randy Moss.

Funny how Rogers has a ring...none with Davante Adams

Funny how Peyton has TWO ring...one ring with elite receivers for most of his career the other with an elite defense.

Now let's talk elite secondary players.

Ben, Brady, Russell, Rodgers, Peyton, Brees and now Stafford.

Name the best secondary players these championship QBs played with.

Troy, C. Woodson, Ty Law, Bob Sanders, D. Sharper, R Sherman, Earl Thomas, Talib, Chris Harris, Revis, Gilmore, and now J Ramsey.

EVERY LAST ONE has a ring with them.

Look at the above. I've been telling you guys this FOR YEARS.

Just happened again.

Elite QB plus elite secondary is the most consistent formula for championships.

When (not IF) the Chargers win with JC, are you guys gonna finally listen? :)

[Ernie]

Would be fun to go back and revisit the predraft thread on Metcalf and take a good look at some of those predictions... based on the 3 Cone Drill etc...

[Captain Lemming]

Would be fun to go back and revisit the predraft thread on Metcalf and take a good look at some of those predictions... based on the 3 Cone Drill etc...

Actually there was almost universal desire for us to draft him and this board was more correct than the consensus of scouts.

The one guy here who was talking negative on Metcalf was Buzz. one the 3 cone stuff.

He was arguing with you which is why you remember. But I believe he was the only one.

[NorthCoast]

Actually there was almost universal desire for us to draft him and this board was more correct than the consensus of scouts.

The one guy here who was talking negative on Metcalf was Buzz. one the 3 cone stuff.

He was arguing with you which is why you remember. But I believe he was the only one.

Interesting that Claypool opted out of the 3 cone. I would argue he would score worse than Metcalf. Probably fall down trying to run it...

4.33 for a man the size of Metcalf is pretty amazing;

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51960831897_28e7093b1b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2naAR32)Capture (https://flic.kr/p/2naAR32) by R W (https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/), on Flickr

[feltdizz]

No Allen was simply inaccurate.
Believe me I saw him plenty before the NFL.

lmao.. no. Not true at all. When you improve accuracy when your WR talent improves dramatically you have to take that into consideration.

Its like driving a Yugo and then a Corvette and saying you drive faster in the Corvette because you took driving lessons.

[feltdizz]

This.

It's a heck of a lot easier to throw to a talented receiver who can get open and has good hands. I'm not advocating for Metcalf at all but you need solid talent at the WR position, regardless of who you have at QB.

Yeah.. if Tua has a better season with Hill and Waddle are we really going to credit his mechanics?

Every QB works on mechanics and accuracy but surrounding them with better WR’s plays a huge part.

Now, if Allen improved dramatically year to year with the same WR unit I would give him all the credit.

[WindyCitySteel]

lmao.. no. Not true at all. When you improve accuracy when your WR talent improves dramatically you have to take that into consideration.

Its like driving a Yugo and then a Corvette and saying you drive faster in the Corvette because you took driving lessons.

Allen worked with Jordan Palmer to improve his mechanics. If you can't drive a Yugo you'll kill yourself in a Corvette. Look at OBJ with Baker and with Stafford.

By the way, Ridder sought out Palmer this offseason, because he gets it.

QB1.

[WindyCitySteel]

Also, Allen's comp% dropped six points from 2020 to 2021. Did Diggs have a bad year?

[feltdizz]

Allen worked with Jordan Palmer to improve his mechanics. If you can't drive a Yugo you'll kill yourself in a Corvette. Look at OBJ with Baker and with Stafford.

By the way, Ridder sought out Palmer this offseason, because he gets it.

QB1.

Who said anything about not being able to drive a Yugo? lmao..

[SteelBucks]

While we’re on the subject of WR rumors, SF is willing to part with Deebo Samuel for two first round picks “and more”. Would anyone bite on that? I guess their contract extension talks are not going well.

[WindyCitySteel]

While we’re on the subject of WR rumors, SF is willing to part with Deebo Samuel for two first round picks “and more”. Would anyone bite on that? I guess their contract extension talks are not going well.

No way. Just draft one. Some team boutta find out that the great schemes in SF don't come with the players they trade for.

[feltdizz]

While we’re on the subject of WR rumors, SF is willing to part with Deebo Samuel for two first round picks “and more”. Would anyone bite on that? I guess their contract extension talks are not going well.

The Adams contract changed everything. Now WR’s are expecting crazy money… and I don’t blame them.

When QB’s are making $400 mill or $250 mill guaranteed why should a guy like Deebo take chump change when he was the best weapon for them?

Its a crazy time this year. I think by the start of the season rosters are going to be significantly different. I’ve never seem this many stars moving from team to team in one offseason.

[flippy]

Just imagine if Metcalf or Deebo go to a team like KC, Rams, etc.

They can probably sell one of these guys on a chance to go play with Brady to win a SuperBowl at a discount.

But the money is insane cause these guys are a dime a dozen. The rules are so slanted to the O and the QBs have gotten so good.

[Captain Lemming]

lmao.. no. Not true at all. When you improve accuracy when your WR talent improves dramatically you have to take that into consideration.

Its like driving a Yugo and then a Corvette and saying you drive faster in the Corvette because you took driving lessons.

Worst analogy ever dude.

Every NFL receiver is ELITE by comparison to an average person. There are no "Yugos" in the NFL.

They are all race cars as they are all professionals.

If you are not a skilled driver you cannot win even with the very best race car.

But in addition, you act like Diggs catches every pass. In your analogy Diggs is one of a number of race cars he suddenly drives with skill.

If a driver suddenly goes from barely qualifying and routinely crashes to among the best on the circuit, it is not because of a car.

It is absolutely because he became an elite driver. :)

[WindyCitySteel]

But the money is insane cause these guys are a dime a dozen.

Did you skip class the day they taught supply & demand? :D

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I can't see making the move for any big money vet WR right now. I would say that the young group of WRs either currently playing or about to enter are as alented as at any other time I can remember. These guys can be had now with a draft pick and rookie contract with 4-5 years of control. I don't see the huge difference towards team success by sacrificing several high picks and then turning around and handing out Tens of millions a year in guaranteed money.

QB is not a valid comparison. Most young QBs don't enter the league and start leading a team to becoming a winner right away. It typically takes years if at all. WR and RB are two positions where top players can step in and be close to their ceiling the earliest.

[Buzz]

I can't see making the move for any big money vet WR right now. I would say that the young group of WRs either currently playing or about to enter are as alented as at any other time I can remember. These guys can be had now with a draft pick and rookie contract with 4-5 years of control. I don't see the huge difference towards team success by sacrificing several high picks and then turning around and handing out Tens of millions a year in guaranteed money.

QB is not a valid comparison. Most young QBs don't enter the league and start leading a team to becoming a winner right away. It typically takes years if at all. WR and RB are two positions where top players can step in and be close to their ceiling the earliest.

Well said. If we have any ability to coach up the players we have & acquire through the draft, we should be OK at WR.

[NorthCoast]

Seems now Landry wants paid. Looking for $20M/yr.
Maybe that's the new benchmark for WR?

[whisper]

I think its a bit of both.

People wondered how Josh Allen became so accurate.

Look who he was throwing to his rookie year vs last year.

When you go from Kelving Benjamin to Stephon Diggs you become a lot better as a QB.

That was a part of it, but the entire thing.

[hackjam]

Seems now Landry wants paid. Looking for $20M/yr.
Maybe that's the new benchmark for WR?

Wonder how much that Christian Kirk contract is playing into the mid-tier of the WR market... That was the shocking one to me. The top guys always get paid somewhere but 4/$72MM with over half guaranteed for a guy who has never had a 1000 yard season is bananas.

[crushedspirit]

Seems now Landry wants paid. Looking for $20M/yr.
Maybe that's the new benchmark for WR?

Landry is 29, and won't be much of a factor in a year or two. He hasn't even been relevant since 2019, and is easily replaced by a rookie WR on a nothing contract.

[crushedspirit]

Wonder how much that Christian Kirk contract is playing into the mid-tier of the WR market... That was the shocking one to me. The top guys always get paid somewhere but 4/$72MM with over half guaranteed for a guy who has never had a 1000 yard season is bananas.

Many WRs will be waiting for an eternity if they think any franchise will flush money down like that. Mind you, there are other moronic owners like Khan, so who knows. Let the crap of the league overpay.

[Captain Lemming]

The Adams contract changed everything. Now WR’s are expecting crazy money… and I don’t blame them.

When QB’s are making $400 mill or $250 mill guaranteed why should a guy like Deebo take chump change when he was the best weapon for them

Because I just proved that there is little relation between great receivers and championships.

There is an absolute relationship between great QBs and championships.

[Captain Lemming]

Because I just proved that there is little relation between great receivers and championships.

There is an absolute relationship between great QBs and championships.

Allow me to remind you of why QBs RIGHTLY get paid WAY more than receivers.

Megatron?
Funny how Matt Stanford has a ring...none with Megatron.

Funny how Russell has a ring...none with Metcalf.

Funny how Ben has TWO rings...none with the best receiver of an era Brown.

Funny how GOAT Brady has 6 rings...none with the best receiver since Rice- Randy Moss.

Funny how Rogers has a ring...none with Davante Adams

Funny how Peyton has TWO ring...one ring with elite receivers for most of his career the other with an elite defense.

[feltdizz]

Worst analogy ever dude.

Every NFL receiver is ELITE by comparison to an average person. There are no "Yugos" in the NFL.

They are all race cars as they are all professionals.

If you are not a skilled driver you cannot win even with the very best race car.

But in addition, you act like Diggs catches every pass. In your analogy Diggs is one of a number of race cars he suddenly drives with skill.

If a driver suddenly goes from barely qualifying and routinely crashes to among the best on the circuit, it is not because of a car.

It is absolutely because he became an elite driver. :)

what??? lmao.. there are definitely yugo’s in the NFL. Everyone can’t be a star.

Why are you comparing NFL players to regular people? Compare WR’s to WR’s..

Ray Ray McCloud is a Yugo at WR compared to DeAndre Hopkins.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Allow me to remind you of why QBs RIGHTLY get paid WAY more than receivers.

Megatron?
Funny how Matt Stanford has a ring...none with Megatron.

Funny how Russell has a ring...none with Metcalf.

Funny how Ben has TWO rings...none with the best receiver of an era Brown.

Funny how GOAT Brady has 6 rings...none with the best receiver since Rice- Randy Moss.

Funny how Rogers has a ring...none with Davante Adams

Funny how Peyton has TWO ring...one ring with elite receivers for most of his career the other with an elite defense.

If your assertion is that top level skill position players or top level skill position player production don't help teams win games and championships then it's wrong.

Cooper Kupp had one of the best seasons for a WR in the history of the league.

Tampa and the Cheifs had top talent at their skill positions in the previous Superbowl.

[Captain Lemming]

what??? lmao.. there are definitely yugo’s in the NFL. Everyone can’t be a star.

Why are you comparing NFL players to regular people? Compare WR’s to WR’s.

An NFL receiver is a "person" who plays football at the highest level.
A race car is a "car" that is designed to race at the highest level.

You cannot compare a Yugo that is not meant for competition to ANY pro player who competes in the NFL.

Yugos are exactly like regular people Dizz.
They are not "athletes" among cars.

Ray Ray plays in the NFL.
Yugos aren't used in Nascar.

Ray Ray is no Hopkins. But he IS an elite athlete, likely among the fastest 1 percent of people on this planet.

Yugos are slower than an average car. Silly analogy.

[Captain Lemming]

If your assertion is that top level skill position players or top level skill position player production don't help teams win games and championships then it's wrong.

Cooper Kupp had one of the best seasons for a WR in the history of the league.

Kupp is a 5 year veteran.
He goes from a career with ZERO accolades (not even Pro Bowl), to one of the best seasons ever.

What changed?

[flippy]

Kupp is a 5 year veteran.
He goes from a career with ZERO accolades (not even Pro Bowl), to one of the best seasons ever.

What changed?

You could also ask - Stafford goes from 1st pick in the draft, 1 Pro Bowl, perennial loser to winning the SuperBowl. What changed?

On one hand they’re all just pieces of a puzzle that somehow come together.

If there was a formula that was easily repeatable, everyone would just do it.

So far the best guess at it is get a QB and have him be Tom Brady.

[Captain Lemming]

You could also ask - Stafford goes from 1st pick in the draft, 1 Pro Bowl, perennial loser to winning the SuperBowl. What changed?

If there was a formula that was easily repeatable, everyone would just do it.


The difference?

Rams had an elite secondary player and excellent QB.
Stafford HAS HAD an elite receiver before.

I gave you the formula. It worked again.
Who has done it and failed?

People are stupid, that is why they don't do it.
They don't see the pattern.

[feltdizz]

An NFL receiver is a "person" who plays football at the highest level.
A race car is a "car" that is designed to race at the highest level.

You cannot compare a Yugo that is not meant for competition to ANY pro player who competes in the NFL.

Yugos are exactly like regular people Dizz.
They are not "athletes" among cars.

Ray Ray plays in the NFL.
Yugos aren't used in Nascar.

Ray Ray is no Hopkins. But he IS an elite athlete, likely among the fastest 1 percent of people on this planet.

Yugos are slower than an average car. Silly analogy.

This is one of the dumbest post you have ever made Cap.

A Yugo and a Corvette are both street legal cars. They both share the road. A “regular person” in this analogy would be walking.

Why would you even introduce average people into this scenario? That is just dumb and a desperate attempt to distort the analogy.

Tyreek Hill runs a sub 4.30.. the Corvette.

Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.61 and ate himself out of the league. He is the Yugo.

In any analogy among football players.. never introduce regular people.. lol.

There is a reason Tyreek Hill makes $30 mill a year and a Tanner Gentry makes 800K and only had 6 receptions last year. He is the Yugo my friend.

even if NFL WR’s are the 1% of elite athletes.. there is still a scale within that 1% and the top of the WR list is dramatically better statistically from the bottom of the WR list.

This discussion/analogy was originally about Josh Allen’s WR corp in 2017 vs 2020/2021.

The Yugo - 2017: Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones. Deonte Thompson

The Corvette - 2021: Stephon Diggs, Manny Sanders, Cole Beasley.

drops mic

[BURGH86STEEL]

This is one of the dumbest post you have ever made Cap.

A Yugo and a Corvette are both street legal cars. They both share the road. A “regular person” in this analogy would be walking.

Why would you even introduce average people into this scenario? That is just dumb and a desperate attempt to distort the analogy.

Tyreek Hill runs a sub 4.30.. the Corvette.

Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.61 and ate himself out of the league. He is the Yugo.

In any analogy among football players.. never introduce regular people.. lol.

There is a reason Tyreek Hill makes $30 mill a year and a Tanner Gentry makes 800K and only had 6 receptions last year. He is the Yugo my friend.

even if NFL WR’s are the 1% of elite athletes.. there is still a scale within that 1% and the top of the WR list is dramatically better statistically from the bottom of the WR list.

This discussion/analogy was originally about Josh Allen’s WR corp in 2017 vs 2020/2021.

The Yugo - 2017: Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones. Deonte Thompson

The Corvette - 2021: Stephon Diggs, Manny Sanders, Cole Beasley.

drops mic
Best believe that teams want the best skill position players within financial reason.

Next time someone complains about the Steelers WR's inability to create separation........

[BURGH86STEEL]

The Steelers should inquire about DK if he's available. They would be doing themselves a disservice not to inquire.

I think he would be to expensive for the Steelers liking but you never know. Can't hurt to ask.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

This is one of the dumbest post you have ever made Cap.

A Yugo and a Corvette are both street legal cars. They both share the road. A “regular person” in this analogy would be walking.

Why would you even introduce average people into this scenario? That is just dumb and a desperate attempt to distort the analogy.

Tyreek Hill runs a sub 4.30.. the Corvette.

Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.61 and ate himself out of the league. He is the Yugo.

In any analogy among football players.. never introduce regular people.. lol.

There is a reason Tyreek Hill makes $30 mill a year and a Tanner Gentry makes 800K and only had 6 receptions last year. He is the Yugo my friend.

even if NFL WR’s are the 1% of elite athletes.. there is still a scale within that 1% and the top of the WR list is dramatically better statistically from the bottom of the WR list.

This discussion/analogy was originally about Josh Allen’s WR corp in 2017 vs 2020/2021.

The Yugo - 2017: Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones. Deonte Thompson

The Corvette - 2021: Stephon Diggs, Manny Sanders, Cole Beasley.

drops mic
Nah… Benjamin is a Camaro whose owner never did proper maintenance on… still high performance car, not quite on the same level

you are a yugo… I’m a Honda Accord. Bwahahaha

[Captain Lemming]

This is one of the dumbest post you have ever made Cap.

I know. It is what happens when one engages in a stupid analogy, so it is impossible to make sense of it.

You cannot compare a receiver to a car period.

Stop the stupid analogy.

Recall my first response.

I SAW HIM IN COLLEGE, nothing whatsoever to do with ANY NFL receivers.

He was inaccurate in college. I watched him from the stands in person Dizz. Nevermind quality of receivers. If you frequently MISS receivers, you are not accurate.

Problem was not drops, not covered, MISSES dude.

[Captain Lemming]

Nah… Benjamin is a Camaro whose owner never did proper maintenance on… still high performance car, not quite on the same level

you are a yugo… I’m a Honda Accord. Bwahahaha

Dizz look at the mess you've created. :)

[Captain Lemming]

The Steelers should inquire about DK if he's available. They would be doing themselves a disservice not to inquire.

I think he would be to expensive for the Steelers liking but you never know. Can't hurt to ask.

Unless it is to get a big deal why would any receiver CHOOSE us?

[Captain Lemming]

Best believe that teams want the best skill position players within financial reason.

Next time someone complains about the Steelers WR's inability to create separation........

I will remind them that Hines Ward and Randle El weren't known for getting great separation. But they "separated" themselves from the likes of Brown by bringing a championship to Pittsburgh.

Brown? Plenty of separation...except for when the Patriots SECONDARY made him average and our secondary made the Patriot LaCrosse player look like the All Pro that day.

That game perfectly illustrates my point.

[feltdizz]

Best believe that teams want the best skill position players within financial reason.

Next time someone complains about the Steelers WR's inability to create separation........

Trying to credit accuracy improvements the year Allen got Stephon Diggs is like trying to credit our LB coach for his scheme after we got TJ Watt.

Its amazing how people lie to themselves to discredit elite WR’s impact on production.

[feltdizz]

I will remind them that Hines Ward and Randle El weren't known for getting great separation. But they "separated" themselves from the likes of Brown by bringing a championship to Pittsburgh.

Brown? Plenty of separation...except for when the Patriots SECONDARY made him average and our secondary made the Patriot LaCrosse player look like the All Pro that day.

That game perfectly illustrates my point.

What have we done in the playoffs since we lost AB?

How has our offense looked in the playoffs the last 2 trips without a legit #1 WR?

[feltdizz]

I know. It is what happens when one engages in a stupid analogy, so it is impossible to make sense of it.

You cannot compare a receiver to a car period.

Stop the stupid analogy.

Recall my first response.

I SAW HIM IN COLLEGE, nothing whatsoever to do with ANY NFL receivers.

He was inaccurate in college. I watched him from the stands in person Dizz. Nevermind quality of receivers. If you frequently MISS receivers, you are not accurate.

Problem was not drops, not covered, MISSES dude.

and his accuracy dramatically improved as soon as he got Stephon Diggs..

just a coincidence, huh? lmao..

[Captain Lemming]

What have we done in the playoffs since we lost AB?

How has our offense looked in the playoffs the last 2 trips without a legit #1 WR?

We averaged 29 points. More than in any championship run in team history. :)

And we lost because we could not stop anybody. I know if we had Brown Pouncey does not spot the Browns 6.

Our problem is defense and and aging QB.

You KNOW THIS.

Just pretend I just blamed Tomlin and you will QUICKLY remind us that Bens mistakes cost us dearly. :)

Please Dizz, keep making my point. :)

[BURGH86STEEL]

I will remind them that Hines Ward and Randle El weren't known for getting great separation. But they "separated" themselves from the likes of Brown by bringing a championship to Pittsburgh.

Brown? Plenty of separation...except for when the Patriots SECONDARY made him average and our secondary made the Patriot LaCrosse player look like the All Pro that day.

That game perfectly illustrates my point.

Maybe it wasn't the WRs but the play of the QB?

Teams need highly talented skill position players to help teams win. Get a good QB and build as much talent around him within reason.

The salary skill position players command is the real issue. They deserve to be paid because they help teams win games.

How much is the question? Different organizations approach this issue differently.

[feltdizz]

We averaged 29 points. More than in any championship run in team history. :)

And we lost because we could not stop anybody. I know if we had Brown Pouncey does not spot the Browns 6.

Our problem is defense and and aging QB.

You KNOW THIS.

Just pretend I just blamed Tomlin and you will QUICKLY remind us that Bens mistakes cost us dearly. :)

Please Dizz, keep making my point. :)

We lost because we kept giving the ball away on offense.. not just on the opening possession vs the Browns.

7 straight punts vs KC. The D played well vs KC until they ran out of gas.

and the offense only scored 14 points vs KC. The D scored the first TD… smh.

[feltdizz]

I will remind them that Hines Ward and Randle El weren't known for getting great separation. But they "separated" themselves from the likes of Brown by bringing a championship to Pittsburgh.

Brown? Plenty of separation...except for when the Patriots SECONDARY made him average and our secondary made the Patriot LaCrosse player look like the All Pro that day.

That game perfectly illustrates my point.

How many times in the playoffs did we beat the Pats without an elite WR?

[Captain Lemming]

and his accuracy dramatically improved as soon as he got Stephon Diggs..

just a coincidence, huh? lmao..

Not a coincidence.
Hard work.

ESPN


How Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen went from mediocrity to NFL MVP contender


KEVIN VAN VALKENBURG
ESPN Senior WriterJan 6, 202115 Minute Read


WHEN WAS THE exact moment you realized Josh Allen had made you look like a fool? How many "Are you bleeping serious?" throws did he have to make for you to question your entire belief system when it comes to predicting the success of an NFL quarterback? Because, dear reader, most of us did not arrive at this moment easily.


It took some time, and some serious self-reflection, for me to willingly don this clown suit that Allen is making me wear. But I come in peace, on the brink of the NFL playoffs, ready to own my shame.


This is a safe space, if you are ready to do the same. Because there are plenty of us out there. Football Outsiders called him a "parody of an NFL prospect" and said "every piece of empirical evidence we have on Allen leads to him being a failure." Pro Football Focus' lead analyst mocked him for missing the net in drills at the Senior Bowl. An editor from NBC's ProFootballTalk joked that Roger Staubach was more accurate, even at age 76. Even ESPN's Dan Orlovsky expressed skepticism that Allen would be able to process things quickly enough after the snap to ever evolve into a franchise quarterback.


Troy Aikman said it would be hard to imagine him improving his accuracy, that he'd never seen it in 17 years of studying the game.


“I was accurate as a passer and I just I feel you either have an ability to put a ball where you want to or you don't,” Aikman said. “And that was a real concern, I guess, of Josh coming out. Heck, I saw him miss 10-yard throws. And not even close. And you'd say, ‘Wow!’ When I was at his pro day, I was standing right behind him and I happened to be next to Mike Shula (when he was offensive coordinator of the New York Giants). He threw a ball, it had to be 85 yards in the air. I've never seen a ball travel like that. He overthrew the receiver and it was the darndest thing I've ever seen.


I never wrote a lengthy opus laying out my belief that the Bills' third-year quarterback would be an epic bust, but I believed it deep inside my football soul. I LOLed when I saw his numbers at Wyoming. (Because, c'mon, you're going to star in the NFL when you couldn't even dominate the Mountain West?) I chuckled when he was drafted ahead of Lamar Jackson. (Maybe he can play tight end when this doesn't work out, I ribbed my Bills-supporting friends, parroting the suggestion that Jackson might have to switch positions.) I rolled my eyes every time Allen was held up as some mythical working-class embodiment of western New York ethos (he's from California!). Allen's goofy grin, his awkward throwing mechanics, his clueless teenage naivete (and that's a generous reading) when it came to writing offensive things on Twitter -- none of it screamed "franchise quarterback."


How on earth did the quarterbacking equivalent of scrawny Steve Rogers become, over the course of three years, Buffalo's Captain America?


JORDAN PALMER WANTS me -- and, by proxy, you -- to understand something: The idea that you can't improve a quarterback's accuracy through coaching is, well, bogus.


Palmer played four seasons in the NFL, threw just 18 career passes and, until recently, was primarily known as Carson Palmer's younger, less talented brother. But after his playing career ended in 2014, he gradually reinvented himself as an offseason passing guru for young quarterbacks, Allen among them. They've spent the past three years working together, Allen throwing thousands of passes as Palmer has looked on, essentially a California-based Yoda running his own Jedi academy. (Joe Burrow and Sam Darnold also count Palmer as a mentor.)


The proof is in the numbers: After ranking last in the NFL in completion percentage in his first two seasons (55.8% in 2019), Allen this year has jumped into the top five, alongside quarterbacks like Rodgers, Drew Brees and Deshaun Watson. He's just the fourth quarterback in the past 20 years to increase his completion percentage at least 10 percentage points from one season to the next.


"Josh is really, really athletic," says his offseason quarterback coach, Jordan Palmer, "and that's an underrated part of this. It allows him to make permanent changes really quickly."


"Certainly, I expected big things this year," Palmer says. "But even I'm pleasantly surprised by just how consistent he is and by the amount of absolute dimes he's throwing. He'll have at least two or three throws a game where, if he's off just a little bit, it's going the other way. But he's making them practically every time."


The potential for Allen to turn his powerful shoulder cannon into an accurate one was always there, Palmer says, but the key to unlocking it was actually in his feet, not his upper body. "He drastically changed his base that he played with," Palmer says. "He used to bounce up and down on his toes, with a narrow base, which would cause him to over-stride when he'd go to throw. There is a cascading effect once you over-stride. Now he's learned to play with a much better base. When you play with all your cleats on the ground, you create more energy and you have more balance."


In this era, we have a much better grasp of how the kinematic chain works, thanks to advances in technology. Sure, a grizzled quarterback guru with 20 years of experience might be able to watch offseason workouts and make subtle tweaks in a quarterback's delivery, but these days that same coach could also look down at his iPad and read -- thanks to a microchip implanted inside the football -- the velocity, the spin rate and integrity of a spiral in seconds.


"Ball don't lie," Palmer says. "We also use a 4D, high-speed, motion capture camera system called Biometrek. It's a startup out here in California. They have 16 high-speed cameras and we'll throw in their [studio], then you use a computer to turn your guy into a little stick figure. We use that to look at weight distribution, mass and the kinematic sequence, which is the hip going first, then the shoulder and ultimately the arm firing. That was the biggest thing for Josh. Is his first movement going down into the ground and loading? Or was his first movement just at the target? The difference between bad and great, especially in a workout setting, is minor. But Josh is really, really athletic, and that's an underrated part of this. It allows him to make permanent changes really quickly."


This year, the Bills added Stefon Diggs (NFL-high 127 receptions and 1,535 yards), but Allen is distributing the ball to everyone. Thirteen different Bills caught a touchdown pass this year, tying an NFL record. Like Diggs, Cole Beasley -- in his ninth year in the league -- set career highs in receptions (82) and yards (967). It's only the second time in franchise history that two receivers topped 80 receptions for the season.


"I told Josh I think he just made three of the best throws I'd ever seen in my life," Beasley told me after the Bills' 49-19 Week 15 win over Denver. "When you're playing with a guy like that, it drives you to get open every play because you know he's going to find you."

[Northern_Blitz]

Unless it is to get a big deal why would any receiver CHOOSE us?

Same with elite CB at the moment. :(

Hope we have a quick turn around.

[WindyCitySteel]

Trying to credit accuracy improvements the year Allen got Stephon Diggs is like trying to credit our LB coach for his scheme after we got TJ Watt.

Its amazing how people lie to themselves to discredit elite WR’s impact on production.

Again, Allen's accuracy dipped from 69% to 63% last year. Did Diggs drop off?

Palmer explained why Allen's accuracy was so bad and how he fixed it. It's not rocket science. You don't jump 10% points in completion pct in one season because of one WR. Subtract Diggs' targets and catches in 2020 and Allen still jumps from 59% to 66%.

[feltdizz]

Nah… Benjamin is a Camaro whose owner never did proper maintenance on… still high performance car, not quite on the same level

you are a yugo… I’m a Honda Accord. Bwahahaha

lmao… Nah, Kelvin was a bust.

When we say a player sucks no one says “but compared to regular people he’s an elite talent”

We are comparing NFL players. If we can say a player “sucks” or is trash then I can call one a Yugo in an analogy.

[feltdizz]

Again, Allen's accuracy dipped from 69% to 63% last year. Did Diggs drop off?

Palmer explained why Allen's accuracy was so bad and how he fixed it. It's not rocket science. You don't jump 10% points in completion pct in one season because of one WR.

Maybe Diggs faced better schemes on defense last year after he had 1500 yards in 2020?

Look at our game vs the Bills in 2020 vs 2021. Haden missed the game in 2020 and Diggs had 130 yards and a TD. In 2021 he had 69 yards and no TD’s.

Could also be due to a facing better defenses?

The other teams get paid too.

Also, the GM was quoted saying the WR’s were running bad routes early in Allen’s career but it wasn’t something they would admit while those players were in the team.

Allen made mistakes, but Beane and the Bills coaching staff understood the offense well enough to know when the fault should be laid at Allen’s feet and when it belonged elsewhere.
https://cdn-vox--cdn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/AW/s/cdn.vox-cdn.com/images/blank.gif
“Some of the issues that we had in Year 1 that Josh would never say a word about, we had receivers that didn’t always run the right routes and didn’t maybe run them to the right depth,” Beane told me in October. “We’re not going to publicly criticize those guys but there were plenty of times when people were getting onto Josh when it wasn’t Josh’s fault.

[WindyCitySteel]

By the way, Ridder said Palmer was working on a similar base/overstriding issue with him, hope it has the same effect.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30656535/how-bills-qb-josh-allen-went-mediocrity-mvp-contender


The potential for Allen to turn his powerful shoulder cannon into an accurate one was always there, Palmer says, but the key to unlocking it was actually in his feet, not his upper body. "He drastically changed his base that he played with," Palmer says. "He used to bounce up and down on his toes, with a narrow base, which would cause him to over-stride when he'd go to throw. There is a cascading effect once you over-stride. Now he's learned to play with a much better base. When you play with all your cleats on the ground, you create more energy and you have more balance."

[feltdizz]

By the way, Ridder said Palmer was working on a similar base/overstriding issue with him, hope it has the same effect.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30656535/how-bills-qb-josh-allen-went-mediocrity-mvp-contender

and if we got Ridder in 2022 and he was “innaccurate” I would hope we would work in his mechanics AND get him a top 10 WR to improve his game.

[Captain Lemming]

Same with elite CB at the moment. :(

Hope we have a quick turn around.

Difference is that tome and time again it has been proven that you SHOULD grab an elite corner even if it takes a big deal.

The last team to do it is currently the champion. :)

[Captain Lemming]

Look at our game vs the Bills in 2020 vs 2021. Haden missed the game in 2020 and Diggs had 130 yards and a TD. In 2021 he had 69 yards and no TD’s.


I agree wholeheartedly.

When you speak fact like this you make my case so well Dizz, albeit by accident.

I suggest you stop giving NFL data and go back to talking about cars if you wanna imagine another mic drop my friend. :)

[WindyCitySteel]

and if we got Ridder in 2022 and he was “innaccurate” I would hope we would work in his mechanics AND get him a top 10 WR to improve his game.

A WR won't help him throw accurate passes. Not sure how you're not getting this. Mayfield couldn't hit OBJ to save his life, Stafford made him look like a star again.

[Captain Lemming]

A WR won't help him throw accurate passes. Not sure how you're not getting this. Mayfield couldn't hit OBJ to save his life, Stafford made him look like a star again.

WCS, Dizz has been losing this debate over the value of receivers (and backs) to me for years. The evidence for backs is so overwhelming he stopped with that altogether.

The massive Bell thread was largely us early on. Dude still won't concede that one to me on being wrong he just ignores it. :)

[WindyCitySteel]

WCS, Dizz has been losing this debate over the value of receivers (and backs) to me for years. The evidence for backs is so overwhelming he stopped with that altogether.

The massive Bell thread was largely us early on. Dude still won't concede that one to me on being wrong he just ignores it. :)

I'd rather have stars at WR and RB than not, but I wouldn't pay them big $$$ because they're so easily replaceable.

[Captain Lemming]

I'd rather have stars at WR and RB than not, but I wouldn't pay them big $$$ because they're so easily replaceable.

THAT is the point.
What people forget is the cap. I would LOVE for the Rooneys to be old school Yankees and sign everyone.

But every blockbuster signing is someone else we cannot sign.

And in a league that overvalued receivers and undervalued secondary, I'm paying elite secondary every time I get the chance over a receiver or back.

You mentioned OBJ. Every year there are excellent backs and receivers at bargain prices.

Last TWO superbowls featured TDs by such receivers.

[Dwinsgames]

lmao… Nah, Kelvin was a bust.

When we say a player sucks no one says “but compared to regular people he’s an elite talent”

We are comparing NFL players. If we can say a player “sucks” or is trash then I can call one a Yugo in an analogy.


was he ?

I mean he put up 1949 yards in 2 season and 16 TDs over that span .....

Many receivers never come close to that in 2 years time and would be considered career years , hell even some HoF WR's would have welcomed numbers like those in their first couple years in the league ... so was he a bust ???

or ..........

did the play around him diminish ?

Many guys have come through Pittsburgh and its disposable WR factory put up great numbers with Ben and have moved on and never found as much success ( sands Manny Sanders ) because Ben elevated the play of others around him , once Ben quit making others look great their play diminished too .. see Claypool per example Ben was playing pretty well and we was on a undefeated streak and Claypool looked like the next great Steeler WR , Bens play started to fall off and so did Claypools production ... the next season Claypool didn't seem nearly as good and guess what consequently neither was Ben ... as Ben's effectiveness waned so did Claypools as the type of player Claypool is arm strength of the QB is needed because he isnt a 10 yard into the flat kind of player , he is a boundary WR that can stretch the field and Ben's throws were short and or jump balls ....

so is /was Claypool a bust or a product of his environment ?

I do not believe in the term bust applying to anyone that put up significant numbers and then all the sudden without an injury being involved could not , I always believe there is a reason for success and or failure and its not always easy to find that answer but sometimes it is ....

[feltdizz]

was he ?

I mean he put up 1949 yards in 2 season and 16 TDs over that span .....

Many receivers never come close to that in 2 years time and would be considered career years , hell even some HoF WR's would have welcomed numbers like those in their first couple years in the league ... so was he a bust ???

or ..........

did the play around him diminish ?

Many guys have come through Pittsburgh and its disposable WR factory put up great numbers with Ben and have moved on and never found as much success ( sands Manny Sanders ) because Ben elevated the play of others around him , once Ben quit making others look great their play diminished too .. see Claypool per example Ben was playing pretty well and we was on a undefeated streak and Claypool looked like the next great Steeler WR , Bens play started to fall off and so did Claypools production ... the next season Claypool didn't seem nearly as good and guess what consequently neither was Ben ... as Ben's effectiveness waned so did Claypools as the type of player Claypool is arm strength of the QB is needed because he isnt a 10 yard into the flat kind of player , he is a boundary WR that can stretch the field and Ben's throws were short and or jump balls ....

so is /was Claypool a bust or a product of his environment ?

I do not believe in the term bust applying to anyone that put up significant numbers and then all the sudden without an injury being involved could not , I always believe there is a reason for success and or failure and its not always easy to find that answer but sometimes it is ....

and 2 seasons of football later he was out of the league.

If Claypool comes in out of shape and bounces to 2 more teams before retiring he will be considered a bust.

IMO a bust is a player with all the tools to be good:great and fails miserably once faced with adversity or better coverage.

Martavis Bryant is another example. We know he smoked his way out of the league and wasn’t a first round pick but he fell off after early success. A waste of talent.

[Dwinsgames]

and 2 seasons of football later he was out of the league.

If Claypool comes in out of shape and bounces to 2 more teams before retiring he will be considered a bust.

IMO a bust is a player with all the tools to be good:great and fails miserably once faced with adversity or better coverage.

Martavis Bryant is another example. We know he smoked his way out of the league and wasn’t a first round pick but he fell off after early success. A waste of talent.

Claypool wasn't a 1st round pick either ...

I just refuse to call players a bust that produced even if it was short lived production , hell some I won't make that stretch to because they were put in impossible situations with **** organizations or clear cut bad fits where it was a square peg round hole from day 1 .... I guess I just hate putting labels on players based on what round they got drafted in , I mean is it their fault the team that drafted them didn't scout them well ... so many seem to draft on projection based on football in shorts instead of on field production and game tape its hard to fault the player because a team got it wrong ....

analytics , pro day results and combine performances have an all to heavy of an influence on the first couple rounds of the draft and that is what produces the most busts , but its the organizations IMO that bust not the over drafted player based on workout numbers when the biggest influence should always be the tape..

don't get me wrong analytics and scouting combine/pro day results have a place in putting the puzzle together but those pieces IMO should be outliers not the focal point ... if player A and player B have basically identical grades as a player then resort to other factors to determine who you may prefer but never look at the other factors to make decisions over the tape

if that makes sense ?

[crushedspirit]

Claypool wasn't a 1st round pick either ...

I just refuse to call players a bust that produced even if it was short lived production , hell some I won't make that stretch to because they were put in impossible situations with **** organizations or clear cut bad fits where it was a square peg round hole from day 1 .... I guess I just hate putting labels on players based on what round they got drafted in , I mean is it their fault the team that drafted them didn't scout them well ... so many seem to draft on projection based on football in shorts instead of on field production and game tape its hard to fault the player because a team got it wrong ....

analytics , pro day results and combine performances have an all to heavy of an influence on the first couple rounds of the draft and that is what produces the most busts , but its the organizations IMO that bust not the over drafted player based on workout numbers when the biggest influence should always be the tape..

don't get me wrong analytics and scouting combine/pro day results have a place in putting the puzzle together but those pieces IMO should be outliers not the focal point ... if player A and player B have basically identical grades as a player then resort to other factors to determine who you may prefer but never look at the other factors to make decisions over the tape

if that makes sense ?

The mental makeup of a player is where the final say comes in on whether he will succeed or not, and I don't think any amount of scouting can crack that code yet.

[Northern_Blitz]

Claypool wasn't a 1st round pick either ...

I just refuse to call players a bust that produced even if it was short lived production , hell some I won't make that stretch to because they were put in impossible situations with **** organizations or clear cut bad fits where it was a square peg round hole from day 1 .... I guess I just hate putting labels on players based on what round they got drafted in , I mean is it their fault the team that drafted them didn't scout them well ... so many seem to draft on projection based on football in shorts instead of on field production and game tape its hard to fault the player because a team got it wrong ....

analytics , pro day results and combine performances have an all to heavy of an influence on the first couple rounds of the draft and that is what produces the most busts , but its the organizations IMO that bust not the over drafted player based on workout numbers when the biggest influence should always be the tape..

don't get me wrong analytics and scouting combine/pro day results have a place in putting the puzzle together but those pieces IMO should be outliers not the focal point ... if player A and player B have basically identical grades as a player then resort to other factors to determine who you may prefer but never look at the other factors to make decisions over the tape

if that makes sense ?

This.

I think a bust is someone with high expectations that you get basically nothing out of.

Limas Sweed was a bust.

MB was dissapointing for sure. But I don't think he was a bust because he did give us some quality seasons. Even though his talent was wasted.

Claypool isn't a bust. He hasn't reached his peak. But he seems to be pretty easily among the 64 best WRs in the league. That's a WR2 in my book. And while I want him to do more because he seems like he has the tools to be better, he's already probably about equaled a reasonable expectation for his draft status. Hopefully he puts it all together and becomes a long time #1...or maybe a guy we can flip for a big return since WR contracts are kind of silly IMO.

[feltdizz]

This.

I think a bust is someone with high expectations that you get basically nothing out of.

Limas Sweed was a bust.

MB was dissapointing for sure. But I don't think he was a bust because he did give us some quality seasons. Even though his talent was wasted.

Claypool isn't a bust. He hasn't reached his peak. But he seems to be pretty easily among the 64 best WRs in the league. That's a WR2 in my book. And while I want him to do more because he seems like he has the tools to be better, he's already probably about equaled a reasonable expectation for his draft status. Hopefully he puts it all together and becomes a long time #1...or maybe a guy we can flip for a big return since WR contracts are kind of silly IMO.

If Chase regresses next year and is out of the league in 2 years I think fans won’t think he played to expectations.

[Northern_Blitz]

Difference is that tome and time again it has been proven that you SHOULD grab an elite corner even if it takes a big deal.

The last team to do it is currently the champion. :)

Yep.

So if you're an elite corner, you probably want to go where there's an elite QB, right?

My guess is that we weren't attractive to marquee guys looking to win a championship in the short term given our QB situation.

I hope that changes soon.

[Dwinsgames]

Yep.

So if you're an elite corner, you probably want to go where there's an elite QB, right?

My guess is that we weren't attractive to marquee guys looking to win a championship in the short term given our QB situation.

I hope that changes soon.

some guys chase money , others chase Lombardi's and Rings ... we was up against the cap so had no money and the rings wasnt in the equation with our QB play and horrid play calling and lack of a quality run game

[Captain Lemming]

Yep.

So if you're an elite corner, you probably want to go where there's an elite QB, right?

My guess is that we weren't attractive to marquee guys looking to win a championship in the short term given our QB situation.

I hope that changes soon.

I think the perspective of a receiver who's value is DIRECTLY TIED TO OPPORTUNITIES CREATED BY A QB, has a MUCH bigger incentive to have QB an the prolific nature of a teams passing game as a bigger part of the equation.

Outside of pass catchers I think the immediate QB situation, or other immediate competitive factors would be a much bigger deal for older players who made their money and are ring hunting.

Biggest incentive on your first post rookie deal?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/2d2iUWHwmiNfa/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952b2dff6cbe260698bec7a67ac6aa 2d98f68e608fc&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g
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https://giphy.com/gifs/good-times-nelly-2d2iUWHwmiNfa

[Northern_Blitz]

I think the perspective of a receiver who's value is DIRECTLY TIED TO OPPORTUNITIES CREATED BY A QB, has a MUCH bigger incentive to have QB an the prolific nature of a teams passing game as a bigger part of the equation.

Outside of pass catchers I think the immediate QB situation, or other immediate competitive factors would be a much bigger deal for older players who made their money and are ring hunting.

Biggest incentive on your first post rookie deal?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/2d2iUWHwmiNfa/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952b2dff6cbe260698bec7a67ac6aa 2d98f68e608fc&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=gqkDH9AF&id=2E041C0AEFC6E4905E21F43D977A68C060F044A7&thid=OIP.gqkDH9AFv7H1x18hSPCojgAAAA&mediaurl=https://media.giphy.com/media/2d2iUWHwmiNfa/giphy.gif&cdnurl=https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.82a9031fd005bfb1f5c75f2148f0a88e?rik=p0TwYMBoepc 99A&pid=ImgRaw&r=0&exph=220&expw=245&q=Must+Be+the+Money+Meme&simid=608048373027901978&form=IRPRST&ck=6D8CBB350041E26A553ABB6657840097&selectedindex=12&pc=EMMX01&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=4&sim=11&adlt=demote&shtp=GetUrl&shid=59a7fc3c-b13c-46d8-b716-9250239360a2&shtk=TXVzaWMgR0lGIC0gRmluZCAmIFNoYXJlIG9uIEdJUEhZ&shdk=Rm91bmQgb24gQmluZyBmcm9tIGdpcGh5LmNvbQ%3D%3D&shhk=KCO4uscdXQwSgZBRamKJgFA5d8zk8Enr4xGTtT7CT%2FM %3D&shth=OIP.gqkDH9AFv7H1x18hSPCojgAAAA
https://giphy.com/gifs/good-times-nelly-2d2iUWHwmiNfa

If the CB agrees with you and thinks "Above average to elite CB" + "Above average to elite QB" = SB, then he'd almost certainly sign with a team with an "Above average to elite QB"...unless the team without the QB made an overpayment that was significant to the player.

And if he wins a SB - on say a 3 year contract - then he still gets another bite at the apple...after being a key contributor to a SB run.

So I agree that (i) I'd much rather have an elite player in the secondary - CB preferred and (ii) if we overpaid by enough we could get anyone.

But...


What people forget is the cap. I would LOVE for the Rooneys to be old school Yankees and sign everyone.

But every blockbuster signing is someone else we cannot sign.

And unfortunately, I think we had too many needs this year to make a big move like this. And even if we did, I think we'd be wasting a year of that CB's production because of our QB situation.

While we could have absorbed JC's $8M this year, I don't know that we'll want to be in the $17M - $19M range for an outsider. That would put him ahead of both Cam and whatever Fits' new contract will be.

And for good or bad, we seem to think that bringing in outside guys and paying them to be among say the top 3 paid guys on their side of the ball upsets morale.

Joel Correy (former NFL agent) talks about how players he represents would get pissed when things like that happened. Felt like the team didn't value the contributions they had made in the past.

I'm sure they'd get over it if they were winning. But we do seem to avoid upsetting the applecart in that way.