You're Matt Canada

[NorthCoast]

In a draft for QBs like this one it might be more important than usual to pick a guy that will fit the scheme the OC is trying to install. (I know, that's reverse of building an offense around his skills but without a clear 'franchise guy' the scheme fit might determine his near-term success.)

Since some of yinz don't like stats as a measure I'll give you a brief writeup by one expert on each. Since the first pick might be obvious and likely long gone, I'll give you a second pick.

Who are the top 2 QBs that you think Canada tabs?

(note, the order does not reflect the supposed draft positions.)




QB1
player was starting QB in an extremely RPO- and Screen-heavy offense. Mid-tier backup QB you can win with given WRs who can separate with large catch radii. Intelligent passer with relatively clean mechanics and good touch. Too inaccurate and fumble-prone for consistent success, failing to elevate his supporting cast.


QB2
Low-end starting QB you can win with pending a season of mechanical development and transition to a pro-style system. Highly-competitive, thick QB who has plus scrambling ability and has superb underneath accuracy and velocity. Height is an issue as is repeated contact as a runner. Needs to show the ability to be accurate deep.


QB3
Starting QB you can win with who flashes potential to win because of in a timing-based scheme pending development of pass progression. Precise QB with incredible anticipation and clean mechanics. Highly competitive and at his best through the air in scramble. Doesn't consistently work through progression and lacks top-end arm strength.


QB4
player operates a motion-heavy offense predicated on spacing the field horizontally and getting the ball out quickly, but also incorporates RPO, designed QB run, and shot play action concepts. Player makes half-field reads and sets the protection pre-snap. Backup QB you can win with given half-field reads, adequate pass protection, and WRs who can adjust well to make difficult catches. Tall QB who plays winning football and avoids mistakes with outstanding decision making and above the line arm strength when mechanically sound. Plus athlete on the ground. ... Inaccurate passer who is susceptible to consistent pressure and doesn't frequently engage full body in motion.


QB5
Starting QB you can win because of pending development in a misdirection-based offense that emphasizes YAC. Highly-mobile passer who is accurate on underneath to intermediate throws, even on the run or off-platform. Needs significant mechanical refinement to increase consistency. Will miss reads, especially over the middle, and plays hero ball in clutch situations.


QB6
uses a pass- and shotgun-heavy West Coast scheme that spreads the field and primarily attacks outside the numbers with Outs, Gos, and WR Screens. Starter you can win with independent of scheme given pass-protecting IOL and WRs that can threaten deep. Tall, thick boom-or-bust QB with phenomenal arm strength to create windows on the outside or thread the needle up the seam. Team leader with feel to move in the pocket. Significantly hindered by knee injury and needs medical eval, with little mobility and no run threat regardless. Struggles when pressured and needs a lot of work on keeping consistent mechanics and speeding up motion.


QB7
leads a spread attack almost exclusively from shotgun, with numerous RPOs, Screens, and Mesh concepts in addition to Fly and Hitch routes. Low-level starter you can win with given adequate Pass Pro and multiple options who shows potential to reach mid-tier status given mechanical refinement to improve accuracy. Gunslinger who reads the defense well and makes smart decisions, showing sufficient accuracy, anticipation, and arm strength to move the chains and set up preferred deep shots. A bit undersized and mechanically loose, doesn't figure to have the same success as a runner in the NFL.



I'll give you some time before I post the names. Teaser, there is one QB here that absolutely no one has talked about.

(if I knew how to do a poll I think this could be fun)

[Eich]

Pretty easy to create Poll.

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Then you should be promoted to add your poll options

[WindyCitySteel]

Do you have any links to his previous QB rankings? I found the source and disagree strongly on a couple, but I'd like to see how he's done in the past.

BTW, I think it's a huge mistake to draft a QB to fit your system. Systems were built around Mahomes and Allen and Jackson.

[Northern_Blitz]

QB4 and QB5 sound like the best fits for Canada's system. But the downsides of both seem to be significant.

But I'm not sure I buy the strategy of picking the best QB to fit Canada's system. For two reasons:

QBs are so much more important than OCs that I'd rather pick the QB I thought was "best" and then shop for the right OC to make a system that works for him. Especially when our OC isn't someone with a huge track record of success in the NFL.
Canada hasn't been a guy that stays in place too long. So I don't think he should be a huge reason for picking the next cornerstone QB. If Tomlin was an offensive guy, I could see going with a QB that fit his system. Because he'll still be here for a while IMO.


I think I'm the only one that played the last game like this. Can you post who those QBs were in the other thread?

[SteelerOfDeVille]

BTW, I think it's a huge mistake to draft a QB to fit your system. Systems were built around Mahomes and Allen and Jackson.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Take the best "talent", then use what that person does best. Kordell Stewart was a decent NFL QB until he lost the OC that did this (Chan Gailey) and was given one with a system (Ray Sherman)

Given what the topic is, Canada should want 2 or 7 because they fit his system best with respect to potential failure/flaws... HOWEVER, I don't agree

[Chucktownsteeler]

How many QBs does this guy need?

[T.Ferguson]

The team is in kind of a tough spot because it's unclear how long Canada will be OC, especially based on last season and his coaching history. If we're being honest it's not clear how much longer Tomlin will be HC either so I'm not sure it's in the team's best interest in trading up or drafting a QB in the first round this year. I do think the team should draft one though at some point in this draft.

Let's not forget that Trubisky seems to have been signed at least partly because he can fit Canada's scheme.

[NorthCoast]

Pretty easy to create Poll.

Click the button to Post a new Thread

Add your title and some info in the message

DON'T click on, "Submit New Thread" below the message but Scroll to the bottom under, "Additional Options", and click the checkbox next to, "Create a Poll with this number of options".

Then click on, "Submit New Thread"

Then you should be promoted to add your poll optionsThanks for this Eich. I'll try to edit the OP and see what happens.


Do you have any links to his previous QB rankings? I found the source and disagree strongly on a couple, but I'd like to see how he's done in the past.

BTW, I think it's a huge mistake to draft a QB to fit your system. Systems were built around Mahomes and Allen and Jackson.I don't have the previous rankings handy but will search the archives to see what I can find.


QB4 and QB5 sound like the best fits for Canada's system. But the downsides of both seem to be significant.

But I'm not sure I buy the strategy of picking the best QB to fit Canada's system. For two reasons:

QBs are so much more important than OCs that I'd rather pick the QB I thought was "best" and then shop for the right OC to make a system that works for him. Especially when our OC isn't someone with a huge track record of success in the NFL.
Canada hasn't been a guy that stays in place too long. So I don't think he should be a huge reason for picking the next cornerstone QB. If Tomlin was an offensive guy, I could see going with a QB that fit his system. Because he'll still be here for a while IMO.


I think I'm the only one that played the last game like this. Can you post who those QBs were in the other thread?These are fair comments. Let's say this is the best way forward. But then you have the task of trying to find an OC that can fit his skills sets and that is not what many college coaches do. They are more about systems and getting guys to fit the system. I think the task of finding a good OC to fit the QB not might not be as easy as some think.

(good picks btw)

[NorthCoast]

Unfortunately can't edit the OP to convert to a poll.

Obviously I know the names but I didn't memorize them. My picks based on these profiles and what I think Canada wants are QB2 and QB4.

[NorthCoast]

btw, by saying you want a more mobile QB, the team already has a scheme they are trying to fit a QB into.... i.e. nobody wants a statue that might be highly accurate, smart, and has an arm that could be a QB1.

[Northern_Blitz]

...
These are fair comments. Let's say this is the best way forward. But then you have the task of trying to find an OC that can fit his skills sets and that is not what many college coaches do. They are more about systems and getting guys to fit the system. I think the task of finding a good OC to fit the QB not might not be as easy as some think.

(good picks btw)

Now there are two posts where I'm dying of suspense to see who my mystery QBs are. :p

I agree that finding a good OC for a QB isn't going to be easy.

But I do think it will be easier than finding a good QB.

[Northern_Blitz]

btw, by saying you want a more mobile QB, the team already has a scheme they are trying to fit a QB into.... i.e. nobody wants a statue that might be highly accurate, smart, and has an arm that could be a QB1.

What about QBs with poor mobility AND not so great accuracy. Because I think we have 2 of those guys on the roster! :(

[NorthCoast]

What about QBs with poor mobility AND not so great accuracy. Because I think we have 2 of those guys on the roster! :(Now that right there is funny.....:D.... but sadly true.

[NorthCoast]

Do you have any links to his previous QB rankings? I found the source and disagree strongly on a couple, but I'd like to see how he's done in the past.

BTW, I think it's a huge mistake to draft a QB to fit your system. Systems were built around Mahomes and Allen and Jackson.Here's 2021 rankings from the same source;

#5 Zach Wilson
#4 Mac Jones
#3 Justin Fields
#2 Trey Lance
#1 Trevor Lawrence

The site apparently did not post ranks prior to 2021.

[WindyCitySteel]

Thanks for this Eich. I'll try to edit the OP and see what happens.

I don't have the previous rankings handy but will search the archives to see what I can find.

These are fair comments. Let's say this is the best way forward. But then you have the task of trying to find an OC that can fit his skills sets and that is not what many college coaches do. They are more about systems and getting guys to fit the system. I think the task of finding a good OC to fit the QB not might not be as easy as some think.

(good picks btw)

Is Mike Mularkey still around? The Steelers had a top 10 scoring offense in 2001 and 2002 with Kordell and Tommy Gun. Good OC's can run multiple systems.

Maybe Canada's that guy, don't know enough about him.

[WindyCitySteel]

What about QBs with poor mobility AND not so great accuracy. Because I think we have 2 of those guys on the roster! :(

Yeah, you can't tell me Carson Strong is not a possibility until Haskins and Rudolph are flushed.

[WindyCitySteel]

Here's 2021 rankings from the same source;

#5 Zach Wilson
#4 Mac Jones
#3 Justin Fields
#2 Trey Lance
#1 Trevor Lawrence

The site apparently did not post ranks prior to 2021.

Interesting. I believe Chris Simms had Wilson ranked #1.

[NorthCoast]

Updated the table with QB names and overall draft positions;



QB1
player was starting QB in an extremely RPO- and Screen-heavy offense. Mid-tier backup QB you can win with given WRs who can separate with large catch radii. Intelligent passer with relatively clean mechanics and good touch. Too inaccurate and fumble-prone for consistent success, failing to elevate his supporting cast.
Matt Corral
100th


QB2
Low-end starting QB you can win with pending a season of mechanical development and transition to a pro-style system. Highly-competitive, thick QB who has plus scrambling ability and has superb underneath accuracy and velocity. Height is an issue as is repeated contact as a runner. Needs to show the ability to be accurate deep.
Sam Howell
46th


QB3
Starting QB you can win with who flashes potential to win because of in a timing-based scheme pending development of pass progression. Precise QB with incredible anticipation and clean mechanics. Highly competitive and at his best through the air in scramble. Doesn't consistently work through progression and lacks top-end arm strength.
Kenny Pickett
23rd


QB4
player operates a motion-heavy offense predicated on spacing the field horizontally and getting the ball out quickly, but also incorporates RPO, designed QB run, and shot play action concepts. Player makes half-field reads and sets the protection pre-snap. Backup QB you can win with given half-field reads, adequate pass protection, and WRs who can adjust well to make difficult catches. Tall QB who plays winning football and avoids mistakes with outstanding decision making and above the line arm strength when mechanically sound. Plus athlete on the ground. ... Inaccurate passer who is susceptible to consistent pressure and doesn't frequently engage full body in motion.
Desmond Ridder
70th


QB5
Starting QB you can win because of pending development in a misdirection-based offense that emphasizes YAC. Highly-mobile passer who is accurate on underneath to intermediate throws, even on the run or off-platform. Needs significant mechanical refinement to increase consistency. Will miss reads, especially over the middle, and plays hero ball in clutch situations.
Malik Willis
35th


QB6
uses a pass- and shotgun-heavy West Coast scheme that spreads the field and primarily attacks outside the numbers with Outs, Gos, and WR Screens. Starter you can win with independent of scheme given pass-protecting IOL and WRs that can threaten deep. Tall, thick boom-or-bust QB with phenomenal arm strength to create windows on the outside or thread the needle up the seam. Team leader with feel to move in the pocket. Significantly hindered by knee injury and needs medical eval, with little mobility and no run threat regardless. Struggles when pressured and needs a lot of work on keeping consistent mechanics and speeding up motion.
Carson Strong
93rd


QB7
leads a spread attack almost exclusively from shotgun, with numerous RPOs, Screens, and Mesh concepts in addition to Fly and Hitch routes. Low-level starter you can win with given adequate Pass Pro and multiple options who shows potential to reach mid-tier status given mechanical refinement to improve accuracy. Gunslinger who reads the defense well and makes smart decisions, showing sufficient accuracy, anticipation, and arm strength to move the chains and set up preferred deep shots. A bit undersized and mechanically loose, doesn't figure to have the same success as a runner in the NFL.


Dustin Crum
69th




https://www.the33rdteam.com/draft-central/2022/prospect-rankings/

This site sums up media rankings. The key is to focus on the standard deviation column for QBs. They are huge! Meaning wildly different opinions on where they should be drafted.


https://jacklich10.xyz/shiny/consensus_bb/

[WindyCitySteel]

This site sums up media rankings. The key is to focus on the standard deviation column for QBs. They are huge! Meaning wildly different opinions on where they should be drafted.


https://jacklich10.xyz/shiny/consensus_bb/

17.7 SD on Corral seems right - he's all over the map. Simms raves about him, the other guy calls him a "mid-tier backup".

One thing I don't get about Corral is that so many profiles call him "small". 5 years apart, NFL.com Combine/Draft profile on Mahomes (6'2", 225lb) and Corral (6'2", 212lb) by THE SAME GUY:

"Mahomes is a big, confident quarterback..." "Compares to Jay Cutler"

"Small quarterback with a big heart..." "Compares to Baker Mayfield"

:D:D:D

[NorthCoast]

17.7 SD on Corral seems right - he's all over the map. Simms raves about him, the other guy calls him a "mid-tier backup".

One thing I don't get about Corral is that so many profiles call him "small". 5 years apart, NFL.com Combine/Draft profile on Mahomes (6'2", 225lb) and Corral (6'2", 212lb) by THE SAME GUY:

"Mahomes is a big, confident quarterback..." "Compares to Jay Cutler"

"Small quarterback with a big heart..." "Compares to Baker Mayfield"

:D:D:DWillis had an SD of 20.4. Very surprised given the near universal hype that's surrounded him.

Some of the profile stuff does seem like splitting hairs. Mayfield supposedly is a tall 6' but only 215 lbs. I don't know if these guys can add 10 lbs and still be effective.

[Northern_Blitz]

Thanks NC...do you have the numbers for the other one (
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/52146-Is-quarterback-the-right-move-for-the-Steelers-in-the-first-round/page2)

I'm curious who I selected in that list too.

[NorthCoast]

Thanks NC...do you have the numbers for the other one (
http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/52146-Is-quarterback-the-right-move-for-the-Steelers-in-the-first-round/page2)

I'm curious who I selected in that list too.Totally forgot about that post...sorry. I guess the point of the post is what we all know already. Very hard to predict QB success in the NFL even when they are successful in college.

(btw, still shocking how the Steelers ended up picking K. Stewart with that completion %..... yoi.)




Comp
Att
Pct
Yds
Y/A
TDs
INTs
Rate
Seasons
QB


QB1
852
1251
68.1
9368
7.5
74
19
147.5
4
C. Strong


QB2
456
785
58.1
6481
8.3
33
19
136.5
4
K. Stewart


QB3
386
572
67.5
4762
8.3
41
10
157.6
3
M. Trubisky


QB4
988
1465
67.4
11662
8.0
98
21
153.5
4
G. Smith


QB5
614
912
67.3
8287
9.1
57
23
159.2
4
M. Corral

[Northern_Blitz]

Totally forgot about that post...sorry. I guess the point of the post is what we all know already. Very hard to predict QB success in the NFL even when they are successful in college.

(btw, still shocking how the Steelers ended up picking K. Stewart with that completion %..... yoi.)




Comp
Att
Pct
Yds
Y/A
TDs
INTs
Rate
Seasons
QB


QB1
852
1251
68.1
9368
7.5
74
19
147.5
4
C. Strong


QB2
456
785
58.1
6481
8.3
33
19
136.5
4
K. Stewart


QB3
386
572
67.5
4762
8.3
41
10
157.6
3
M. Trubisky


QB4
988
1465
67.4
11662
8.0
98
21
153.5
4
G. Smith


QB5
614
912
67.3
8287
9.1
57
23
159.2
4
M. Corral




Looks like I picked...Gino Smith! With Corral as 2nd on my list and Strong as 3rd if someone was looking to run our pass short a lot offense.

[NorthCoast]

Looks like I picked...Gino Smith! With Corral as 2nd on my list and Strong as 3rd if someone was looking to run our pass short a lot offense.Look at the positive. You didn't draft Korky! :D