Steelers sign Witherspoon

[SteelBucks]

2 year deal. I don’t have the details yet.

[Oviedo]

Another good move. Team is killing it.

Let's get Edmunds and JuJu next!

[SteelBucks]

I’m assuming that’s signals the end for Haden.

[Northern_Blitz]

I like this signing too.

Should give us some good competition in the CB room.

Anyone know if Wallace can play inside? Seems like some of what I've read about him is that he is quick, but not fast.

I'm surprised Witherspoon came back to us. It sounded like he wanted to go to a place where he thought he was going to get the most PT. And I think there will be a good competition for reps at CB this year. But I also think he's different than the other two guys we have.

I guess Sutton can always slip inside too...

This also means that CB won't be a house on fire need next season if Wallace and Witherspoon are good enough to avoid getting cut (Sutton's contract voids after this year).

Based on the Mitch T signing, not announcing the $$$ right away hopefully means that it isn't a huge deal.

Sutton's base salary is $4.5M (which was also the AAV if you look at his contract as a 2 year deal and not a 5 - with 3 voided), Wallace's AAV is $4M.

I wouldn't be surprised if Witherspoon is right around the same number as these two.

I don't think we like bringing in outside guys and paying more than the guys we have in house (although maybe Sutton is a bit of a special case

[Northern_Blitz]

I’m assuming that’s signals the end for Haden.

It's too bad because I like Haden.

But I think I'd rather have Witherspoon from an age and price standpoint.

[SteelBucks]

I like this signing too.

Should give us some good competition in the CB room.

Anyone know if Wallace can play inside? Seems like some of what I've read about him is that he is quick, but not fast.

I'm surprised Witherspoon came back to us. It sounded like he wanted to go to a place where he thought he was going to get the most PT. And I think there will be a good competition for reps at CB this year. But I also think he's different than the other two guys we have.

I guess Sutton can always slip inside too...

This also means that CB won't be a house on fire need next season if Wallace and Witherspoon are good enough to avoid getting cut (Sutton's contract voids after this year).

IMO, Witherspoon and Wallace at the CB spots. Norwood and Sutton in the dime/nickel packages.

[Northern_Blitz]

IMO, Witherspoon and Wallace at the CB spots. Norwood and Sutton in the dime/nickel packages.

It makes sense (with maybe Sutton being outside on 2 CB sets?).

But I also thought the idea of sliding Sutton inside made sense last season.

CB went from 1 guy that could play outside to 3. I think that should give us some good competition.

None of these guys are world beaters. But will hopefully be at least as good as last year. And maybe better.

[SteelSpain]

Another good move. Team is killing it.

Let's get Edmunds and JuJu next!

Wooww. Best off-season ever :Clap :Bow :tt1

Colbert don't go!!

[whisper]

Another good move. Team is killing it.

Let's get Edmunds and JuJu next!

No and no.

[Northern_Blitz]

It's certainly interesting to see how we can operate when we have cap space.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Another good move. Team is killing it.

Let's get Edmunds and JuJu next!
agreed! I haven't seen one yet that i'm "down" on... these are all solid moves...

JuJu before Edmunds, but yes, BOTH if possible.

[SteelBucks]

It's certainly interesting to see how we can operate when we have cap space.

They still have more room to add.

[Northern_Blitz]

They still have more room to add.

And they could still restructure at least Watt (although I'd hope to avoid that if we could).

I'd like to see some kind of projection for where we are cap wise. But I think it would just be speculation because I don't know if all the details are released on the UFA contracts yet.

Hoping for at least Edmunds (or similar) still.

Wondering if we're giving him some time to see what his price on the market is.

Juju too.

[Northern_Blitz]

agreed! I haven't seen one yet that i'm "down" on... these are all solid moves...

JuJu before Edmunds, but yes, BOTH if possible.

I like Juju, but Edmunds has been far more productive in the last 3 years. And has probably shown some improvement in that time.

Juju has kind of cratered over the last 3 years. And even though I like him, I wouldn't really want to sign a medium $$$ deal for term with him because he's such a question mark at this point.

We know what Edmunds is. And while he's not a superstar and I'd love to get more splash plays, he's a solid guy that plays games on gameday.

[SteelBucks]

I like Juju, but Edmunds has been far more productive in the last 3 years. And has probably shown some improvement in that time.

Juju has kind of cratered over the last 3 years. And even though I like him, I wouldn't really want to sign a medium $$$ deal for term with him because he's such a question mark at this point.

We know what Edmunds is. And while he's not a superstar and I'd love to get more splash plays, he's a solid guy that plays games on gameday.

There has been a Twitter push to get Mathieu for SS.

I personally see Edmunds and JuJu resigning.

[SidSmythe]

I love how a post about WITHERSPOON becomes a post about JuJu & Edmunds.

Anyway...I'm torn on JuJu - he's young, big and a proven #2. You need 3 solid WRs - I think the JuJu decision will come down to - will this stop the Steelers from keeping DJ.

OK, back to SPOON - If things continue as they were last year. He's the Steelers #1 CB - wish they got him for 3 years at least.

[SteelerMaine83]

IMO, Witherspoon and Wallace at the CB spots. Norwood and Sutton in the dime/nickel packages.

No doubt. They see Wallace and Witherspoon as boundary CBs, and probably feel best with Sutton inside, where he is at his best.

[crushedspirit]

No doubt. They see Wallace and Witherspoon as boundary CBs, and probably feel best with Sutton inside, where he is at his best.

Sutton struggled outside last season, and should go back inside. Wallace was solid down the stretch for Buffalo, although he was victimized by KC. Secondary still can use a true #1 CB, but can make due with these guys if all other areas on D are shored up.

[Buzz]

So glad Witherspoon is back on board ... we'd have been lacking too much speed w/o him

[SteelBucks]

Sounds like Witherspoon got 2 years, $8M

[Steel Maniac]

They need to move on from Juju

[hawaiiansteel]

OK, back to SPOON - If things continue as they were last year. He's the Steelers #1 CB - wish they got him for 3 years at least.

I believe Spoon was the best CB rated by PFF over the last third of the season. (or something close to that)

[NJ-STEELER]

defense seems to be loaded again for 2022.

i'll be disappointed if the coaches can't make them into a top 5 unit barring injuries

[Ernie]

defense seems to be loaded again for 2022.

i'll be disappointed if the coaches can't make them into a top 5 unit barring injuries

Itll all depend on what happens up front.

[hackjam]

Sutton struggled outside last season, and should go back inside. Wallace was solid down the stretch for Buffalo, although he was victimized by KC. Secondary still can use a true #1 CB, but can make due with these guys if all other areas on D are shored up.

I grew up in WNY with a bunch of Bills fans and most that I've talked to aren't sure why they let him go, especially after he played pretty well down the stretch with Tre White out.

Another point I saw made somewhere was that he played very well for a couple years with teams throwing his way quite a bit to stay away from Tre White. I'm pretty excited about this one to be honest. Some stability if nothing else.

[NJ-STEELER]

Itll all depend on what happens up front.

with reports of tuiit coming back. It’s
cam
ST
ALU2
wormly
milk
adams

6 deep without counting Davis and mondeux fighting for a spot and likely the PS

other teams coaches would be frothing at the mouth

[Northern_Blitz]

defense seems to be loaded again for 2022.

i'll be disappointed if the coaches can't make them into a top 5 unit barring injuries

Going we can be as healthy on D as we were in the season Ben missed.

Probably won't be that good, but hopefully close

Hopefully what looks like big improvements on OL and having a mobile QB help improve the O too.

[Northern_Blitz]

I believe Spoon was the best CB rated by PFF over the last third of the season. (or something close to that)

I wouldn't be too surprised about this and I hope it continues.

But there's also no way that the INT rate he had last season (1 INT / start) in sustainable over a long period.

[SteelSpain]

with reports of tuiit coming back. It’s
cam
ST
ALU2
wormly
milk
adams

6 deep without counting Davis and mondeux fighting for a spot and likely the PS

other teams coaches would be frothing at the mouth

Am I the only one that has a concern about Alualu health? He's not young and coming from a season ending injury. Adams is a good back up. Can he be a good starter? I don't be surprised if a NT is added shortly.

[WindyCitySteel]

Am I the only one that has a concern about Alualu health? He's not young and coming from a season ending injury. Adams is a good back up. Can he be a good starter? I don't be surprised if a NT is added shortly.

No, you're not. I'm shocked at how many media types are counting on the healthy return of a 35-year old big man that broke his ankle.

[crushedspirit]

I grew up in WNY with a bunch of Bills fans and most that I've talked to aren't sure why they let him go, especially after he played pretty well down the stretch with Tre White out.

Another point I saw made somewhere was that he played very well for a couple years with teams throwing his way quite a bit to stay away from Tre White. I'm pretty excited about this one to be honest. Some stability if nothing else.

He was rock solid down the stretch, and many Bills fans didn't want to see him go. Steelers have made some solid signings, but this guy is my favorite one so far, and at a really decent salary as well.

[NJ-STEELER]

No, you're not. I'm shocked at how many media types are counting on the healthy return of a 35-year old big man that broke his ankle.


what's he have to do except the ole lebeau occupy blockers scheme

[Buzz]

turns out report of Witherspoon signing was fake news


https://steelersdepot.com/2022/03/cb-ahkello-witherspoon-has-yet-to-re-sign-with-steelers/

he hasn't signed

better hope we get this done; we have the slowest CB group in the league otherwise

[Chucktownsteeler]

Sounds like he may be having second thoughts. Maybe due to the signing of Levi?

[WindyCitySteel]

Hopefully it's a technicality with contract language and not a concern about his role. Sutton needs to be the slot, and furthermore should NOT be played outside, but I wonder if the plans are Sutton/Wallace in base, Spoon/Wallace with Sutton in slot in nickel.

[NorthCoast]

Hopefully it's a technicality with contract language and not a concern about his role. Sutton needs to be the slot, and furthermore should NOT be played outside, but I wonder if the plans are Sutton/Wallace in base, Spoon/Wallace with Sutton in slot in nickel.Steelers play plenty of nickel. And now with the QBs in our division probably will be playing moreso. Who knows, nickel might become base? Spoon will get his chances.

[Oviedo]

Hopefully it's a technicality with contract language and not a concern about his role. Sutton needs to be the slot, and furthermore should NOT be played outside, but I wonder if the plans are Sutton/Wallace in base, Spoon/Wallace with Sutton in slot in nickel.

I do like Sutton more in the slot than on the outside, but his ability to do both is a great asset. I also think Norwood is going to develop into a good slot guy

[Buzz]

Aaaannnd now it's finally official ... Witherspoon re-signed by the Steelers


https://steelersdepot.com/2022/03/steelers-officially-re-sign-cb-ahkello-witherspoon/

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex Kozora
@Alex_Kozora

CB Ahkello Witherspoon when targeted this season: 13/18, 155 yards 2 TDs, 1 INT - QB rating of 112.0 against.

Just three games in but tough start to the year. Not picking up where he left off in 2021. Consistency has always been his issue.

Yes, you want to see a better rush help. Sure wouldn't hurt. But Witherspoon's struggles can't be blamed on that. Other CBs still holding their own.

QB rating of Steelers other top two CBs.

Cam Sutton: 66.9
Levi Wallace: 78.5


https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora/status/1574456334396919820?cxt=HHwWmMC84bfsy9krAAAA

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Alex Kozora
@Alex_Kozora

CB Ahkello Witherspoon when targeted this season: 13/18, 155 yards 2 TDs, 1 INT - QB rating of 112.0 against.

Just three games in but tough start to the year. Not picking up where he left off in 2021. Consistency has always been his issue.

Yes, you want to see a better rush help. Sure wouldn't hurt. But Witherspoon's struggles can't be blamed on that. Other CBs still holding their own.

QB rating of Steelers other top two CBs.

Cam Sutton: 66.9
Levi Wallace: 78.5


https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora/status/1574456334396919820?cxt=HHwWmMC84bfsy9krAAAA

I've liked Sutton's play this year so far. For those who keep saying that Minkah is the only one playing ball in the secondary, I'd include Sutton on that list, but I've been a fan since the beginning on him.

[whisper]

As predicted, our CBs ain't "all that" and need upgraded like our DL, ILBs.

[feltdizz]

wonder what Witherspoons numbers would be if not for that amazing play by the NE WR’s.

[NJ-STEELER]

As predicted, our CBs ain't "all that" and need upgraded like our DL, ILBs.

i'm sure another string of 8/9 high draft choices out of 12 on defense is coming soon since this staff can't coach anyone up

[Captain Lemming]

i'm sure another string of 8/9 high draft choices out of 12 on defense is coming soon since this staff can't coach anyone up

Really?
Witherspoon was somebody else's TRASH that looked like a treasure in black and gold last season.

What starter has been coached by this team the longest? Only by the Steelers?

Cam Sutton: 66.9

Short, slow, and lacking in talent. Cam is nothing but an above the neck player. Above the neck is the only thing impacted by coaching.

[Northern_Blitz]

i'm sure another string of 8/9 high draft choices out of 12 on defense is coming soon since this staff can't coach anyone up

I know you love to grind this axe, but I like to play this game. :p

It's pretty clear that you think that using between 8 and 9 high draft picks out of 12 on one side of the ball is bad. Let's take the average of that number, so 8.5/12 = 71%

Not sure what "high" picks are in your eyes (because it sometimes changes based on the post), but here are the top 4 picks for the last 3 years (notice that this is 14 picks and not 12):



Kenny, Pickins, Leal, Austin III
Harris, Freiermuth, Green, Moore Jr., Johnson
(Trade for Fitz), Claypool, Highsmith, McFarland, Dotson


Can you let me know how those picks break down offense vs defense?

Not sure why some of these ended up green and others ended up gold. Something weird with my computer I guess...:p

I think part of the problem with this kind of thinking is that (1) it neglects that teams kind of go through cycles and (2) it mostly seems to have started with the narrative of "all 1st round players on defense", but that was counting a bunch of guys that were given up on by their former teams that we picked up off the scrap heap.

[NJ-STEELER]

Really?
Witherspoon was somebody else's TRASH that looked like a treasure in black and gold last season.

What starter has been coached by this team the longest? Only by the Steelers?


Short, slow, and lacking in talent. Cam is nothing but an above the neck player. Above the neck is the only thing impacted by coaching.

burns
davis
loudermilk (someone they traded up for)
bush
layne
buddy J
edmunds
sutton


is there an above average starter in that group?

[NJ-STEELER]

I know you love to grind this axe, but I like to play this game. :p

It's pretty clear that you think that using between 8 and 9 high draft picks out of 12 on one side of the ball is bad. Let's take the average of that number, so 8.5/12 = 71%

Not sure what "high" picks are in your eyes (because it sometimes changes based on the post), but here are the top 4 picks for the last 3 years (notice that this is 14 picks and not 12):



Kenny, Pickins, Leal, Austin III
Harris, Freiermuth, Green, Moore Jr., Johnson
(Trade for Fitz), Claypool, Highsmith, McFarland, Dotson


Can you let me know how those picks break down offense vs defense?

Not sure why some of these ended up green and others ended up gold. Something weird with my computer I guess...:p

I think part of the problem with this kind of thinking is that (1) it neglects that teams kind of go through cycles and (2) it mostly seems to have started with the narrative of "all 1st round players on defense", but that was counting a bunch of guys that were given up on by their former teams that we picked up off the scrap heap.


first 2 rounds

if you listen to some draft experts, they like to talk about a top 60 (or so) in a draft class
beyond that, its more of a crap shoot

ps. you realize i'm wasnt referring to the last couple years, right?

[Captain Lemming]

burns
davis
loudermilk (someone they traded up for)
bush
layne
buddy J
edmunds
sutton


is there an above average starter in that group?

No.
That IS what happens when you selectively choose a list of random players drafted over the course of half a decade. You could double that or more.

You do know you can do that with ANY team right? Nolls Steelers during their 70s prime. I could do a list like that.

Better than average is by definition better than most.

Let me share a secret.

MOST DRAFTED PLAYERS ON EVERY TEAM ARE NOT "BETTER THAN AVERAGE". :)

[Captain Lemming]

Here is a list of CONSECUTIVE 1st and 2nd round picks by Noll from the late 70s through the early 80s covering a 6 year span:

Ron Johnson
Willie Fry
Greg Hawthorne
Zack Valentine
Mark Malone
Bob Kors
Keith Gary
Anthony Washington
Walter Abercrombie
John Meyer
Gabe Rivera
Wayne Capers

[SteelerOfDeVille]

first 2 rounds

if you listen to some draft experts, they like to talk about a top 60 (or so) in a draft class
beyond that, its more of a crap shoot

ps. you realize i'm wasnt referring to the last couple years, right?
OK, that's weird.
Looking at the 2018 roster: they had Bell (holding out), Brown, Ben, Pouncey, Decastro, Villanueava, Foster and crew on the o-line. This bunch had been in tact for a couple of seasons.

When those caliber players are on a team, why would you spend a 1st on a replacement? Instead, you spend mid rounders and get backups that you might groom. You get a Diontae Johnson's, James Conners, etc because the offense is solid. Meanwhile, you look for replacements for the Shaziers, Harrison's and Polamalu's that you had either lost or were getting up in age. Given where the team was, I see no problem with searching to replace a stud with a stud.

Unfortunately, this was a situation where in a 3-year span, that entire bunch was gone. Guess what the team did? They began restocking those positions with high picks.

Suppose during 2016 when Bell was thriving the team drafted a 1st round RB? It's comical even thinking about that. While we're at it, they should spend 2023 looking for TJ's replacement

[Northern_Blitz]

first 2 rounds

if you listen to some draft experts, they like to talk about a top 60 (or so) in a draft class
beyond that, its more of a crap shoot

ps. you realize i'm wasnt referring to the last couple years, right?

First two rounds is 5/6 offense in the last 3 years...and that's if you count Fitz (which I don't think is unreasonable).

I know you weren't talking about the last three years. My point is that it goes in cycles. We were rebuilding the defense in the past. Now we are rebuilding the offense.

You aren't really talking about the three years before that either (although I think you think you are):
- 2019 (Bush, Johnson)
- 2018 (Edmunds, Washington)
- 2017 (Watt, Juju).

Half offense and half defense in the first two rounds.

You're talking about 2014 - 2016.

That three year stretch was 6/6 defense in the top 2 picks.

The last three years was 5/6 offense. Not all that much different, right?

[NJ-STEELER]

OK, that's weird.
Looking at the 2018 roster: they had Bell (holding out), Brown, Ben, Pouncey, Decastro, Villanueava, Foster and crew on the o-line. This bunch had been in tact for a couple of seasons.

When those caliber players are on a team, why would you spend a 1st on a replacement? Instead, you spend mid rounders and get backups that you might groom. You get a Diontae Johnson's, James Conners, etc because the offense is solid. Meanwhile, you look for replacements for the Shaziers, Harrison's and Polamalu's that you had either lost or were getting up in age. Given where the team was, I see no problem with searching to replace a stud with a stud.

Unfortunately, this was a situation where in a 3-year span, that entire bunch was gone. Guess what the team did? They began restocking those positions with high picks.

Suppose during 2016 when Bell was thriving the team drafted a 1st round RB? It's comical even thinking about that. While we're at it, they should spend 2023 looking for TJ's replacement

ehh, I wasn't advocating that but teams do in fact do that. AJ dillon is an example.

are you trying to say foster and villa weren't guys that could be replaced with better options in the draft?

do you know how long its currently been since they drafted an O lineman in the first 2 rounds?

do you know how long they went before drafting pouncey in the 1st prior to that?

both times, the OL went to bottom of league in rankings

[NJ-STEELER]

Here is a list of CONSECUTIVE 1st and 2nd round picks by Noll from the late 70s through the early 80s covering a 6 year span:

Ron Johnson
Willie Fry
Greg Hawthorne
Zack Valentine
Mark Malone
Bob Kors
Keith Gary
Anthony Washington
Walter Abercrombie
John Meyer
Gabe Rivera
Wayne Capers

what's your point here? that they didn't draft well?

ok, and that probably led to Noll not having much success in the 80's and eventually quitting.

hopefully the current coach follows suit

[NJ-STEELER]

First two rounds is 5/6 offense in the last 3 years...and that's if you count Fitz (which I don't think is unreasonable).

I know you weren't talking about the last three years. My point is that it goes in cycles. We were rebuilding the defense in the past. Now we are rebuilding the offense.

You aren't really talking about the three years before that either (although I think you think you are):
- 2019 (Bush, Johnson)
- 2018 (Edmunds, Washington)
- 2017 (Watt, Juju).

Half offense and half defense in the first two rounds.

You're talking about 2014 - 2016.

That three year stretch was 6/6 defense in the top 2 picks.

The last three years was 5/6 offense. Not all that much different, right?


the years you claim that were "just half", the 1st rounders were all defense. so yes I included those 3 years.
6 of 6 and 3 of 6 equals 9 of 12 in a 6 year span
the 3 on offense were 2nd round picks

[Northern_Blitz]

the years you claim that were "just half", the 1st rounders were all defense. so yes I included those 3 years.
6 of 6 and 3 of 6 equals 9 of 12 in a 6 year span
the 3 on offense were 2nd round picks

So the last 6 years are 8/12 on offense then right?

Are we using too many high picks on O now?

Time to go back to the D?

See how silly this is?

Also: I see you moving the goal posts on your "high picks" definition.

[NJ-STEELER]

So the last 6 years are 8/12 on offense then right?

no, you're numbers are off


2017- 1-1
2018 - 1-1
2019- 2 def... 1st and 2nd rounder used on bush
2020 - 1-1 1st traded for fitz
2021 - 2 off
2022 - 2 off

Are we using too many high picks on O now?
let me guess, yinz are one of those fans that want an ILB when the offense losses its QB and is ranked in bottom third of the league. yoi

Time to go back to the D?

See how silly this is?

Also: I see you moving the goal posts on your "high picks" definition

how so? i'm clarifying what the picks actually were .

................................................

[NJ-STEELER]

in 2008, the steelers defense ranked # 1 in the league, in the following draft they used a 1st round pick on
DL ziggy hood

in 2010, the steelers defense ranked 2nd in the league, the 2011 draft 1st rd pick was DL cam heyward

in 2012, the steelers defense ranked 1st again. the 2013 draft's 1st round pick was LB jarvis jones


show me when they've done something similar with the offense?

[Northern_Blitz]

................................................

Good catch on 2019. I was going to fast. You are correct that it's only 7/12 in the last 6. Still shows that you're busy complaining about that past when you're saying it's unbalanced, right?

I don't care if we pick offense or defense in a given year. I care that we try to pick the best player that can contribute (which is why the Bush miss is really, really bad IMO). We certainly need an ILB because we missed on Bush. Just like missing on Washington meant that we drafted another early WR...although the Bush miss was much worse because of the price of the pick and the fact that it was a premium pick which we don't usually get (although I have a feeling we'll get one this year without having to trade for it :().

But I think there are also big needs on the offense. I don't think the OL is settled and we could benefit from a high pick (that hits) at OT, OC, and probably still G. I think part of the reason we're hurting on offense isn't that we didn't draft offensive players high, it's that we almost exclusively drafted WRs (pass catchers if you want to include PF) high and neglected other parts of the offense. When we picked PF, the issue wasn't that we picked offense it was that we didn't pick a guy who looks really good at a position we desperately needed help with. I didn't mind the Najee pick in real time, but it doesn't look like it dramatically improved our running game. I did say before the draft that I'd rather not draft RB if there was a comparable option because I think the RB should be the last piece because they need an OL to be good and they have the shortest career so you don't really have time to draft an OL in front of them after you get the RB.

I think there are advantages to us being patient and loyal. But it means that we make the mistake of holding on to guys a little too long instead of letting them go a little early. I think we did this with several of the OL, and with Ben too. And now we have a really big rebuild to do on offense. And it makes sense to be using premium draft capital there. Just like it made sense to try to get an impact ILB (we just missed).

Finally, the reason I think it's silly is because:
(i) I think teams draft in cycles based on needs,
(ii) choosing the top 2 rounds is arbitrary,
(iii) it neglects other ways to add players (when we found AV and got him for nothing, it meant we didn't need to use a high pick on a LT, that's a good thing...or when we hit on AB)
(iv) I don't think you actually think it's bad to draft heavily on one side if it's the side you want (I don't think you'll complain if we draft offense with the top 2 again next year), and
(v) I don't think the problem is that we drafted high offense / defense, or that we traded up for Bush. It's that when you miss with premium picks, it hurts. If KP doesn't pan out (and I really, really hope he does), it's not a bad thing to use another high pick on a QB. It's the right decision.

[Northern_Blitz]

in 2008, the steelers defense ranked # 1 in the league, in the following draft they used a 1st round pick on
DL ziggy hood

in 2010, the steelers defense ranked 2nd in the league, the 2011 draft 1st rd pick was DL cam heyward

in 2012, the steelers defense ranked 1st again. the 2013 draft's 1st round pick was LB jarvis jones


show me when they've done something similar with the offense?

That's a decade (or more) ago NJ.

http://jackklumpenhower.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Let-It-Go-670x372.jpg

[SteelerOfDeVille]

ehh, I wasn't advocating that but teams do in fact do that. AJ dillon is an example.

are you trying to say foster and villa weren't guys that could be replaced with better options in the draft?

do you know how long its currently been since they drafted an O lineman in the first 2 rounds?

do you know how long they went before drafting pouncey in the 1st prior to that?

both times, the OL went to bottom of league in rankings
Could foster and villa have been replaced/upgraded? sure. But, replacing Shazier was clearly a bigger need.

Let's do it this way: looks like starting in 2013, you had the killer B's. They had Foster, Pouncey, Decastro and Gilbert at this time. That's 7 of 11 on offense. Beachum/Big Al manned the 8th "starter" during the time period from 2013 to 2018. For that stretch, that's 8 above average starters.

Meanwhile, during those years the defense lost: Polamalu, Debo, Timmons, Woodley, Keisel, Ike, Clark, Gay; not to mention the ILB curse of take Sean Spence who gets injured, so ya take Shazier... dammit, now ya need Bush....

Now that I've actually looked this up? Complaining about selecting defensive players with higher priority picks during this stretch has ZERO merit... It sounds like someone's nagging wife that just needs a reason to complain. There are certainly reasons to criticize the team (and coach). THIS is not one of them. Period

[NJ-STEELER]

It’s showing our philosophy.

In a YouTube I posted n another dejan touched upon that. And he said something very similar to what I wrote above regarding the future of our picks.

ps. I don’t see why 1st 2 rounds are arbitrary.
I noted what the draft people say.
look at the drafts. There’s usually a pretty big fall off after the round of players who make it. Or players who become above average talents.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

It’s showing our philosophy.
NO.... It's showing what the roster looked like...
It's pretty clear that the philosophy is to now draft for need, not BPA....

Look at recent years - Ben retires, draft KP. Conner leaves, draft Najee. JuJu leaves, get Pickens. For that matter, Juju showed up right after Martavis ... and Diontae, right after AB

When were they taking defense? When they were losing key defensive starters at a higher clip

[feltdizz]

Could foster and villa have been replaced/upgraded? sure. But, replacing clearly a Shazier was a bigger need.

Let's do it this way: looks like starting in 2013, you had the killer B's. They had Foster, Pouncey, Decastro and Gilbert at this time. That's 7 of 11 on offense. Beachum/Big Al manned the 8th "starter" during the time period from 2013 to 2018. For that stretch, that's 8 above average starters.

Meanwhile, during those years the defense lost: Polamalu, Debo, Timmons, Woodley, Keisel, Ike, Clark, Gay; not to mention the ILB curse of take Sean Spence who gets injured, so ya take Shazier... dammit, now ya need Bush....

Now that I've actually looked this up? Complaining about selecting defensive players with higher priority picks during this stretch has ZERO merit... It sounds like someone's nagging wife that just needs a reason to complain. There are certainly reasons to criticize the team (and coach). THIS is not one of them. Period

Wife asking why you are replacing the 10 year old work truck with 300K on it while her car is 4 years old that just needs an oil change and a car wash… lol.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Wife asking why you are replacing the 10 year old work truck with 300K on it while her car is 4 years old that just needs an oil change and a car wash… lol.
this is one of the most "wrong" opinions I've ever seen.... may as well just taken the top QB every year because look at aj dillon

[NJ-STEELER]

this is one of the most "wrong" opinions I've ever seen.... may as well just taken the top QB every year because look at aj dillon

lol. you think that's the only examply? please.

you're counter qbout a taking a top qb is moronic.

two of those years i listed above the offense ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league. are you trying to say there was no one on that side of the ball that could have been "replaced"

[SteelerOfDeVille]

lol. you think that's the only examply? please.

you're counter qbout a taking a top qb is moronic.

two of those years i listed above the offense ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league. are you trying to say there was no one on that side of the ball that could have been "replaced"
That's not a counter, that's a ridicule.

You ignored all the counters because they made you look foolish.

[Northern_Blitz]

It’s showing our philosophy.

In a YouTube I posted n another dejan touched upon that. And he said something very similar to what I wrote above regarding the future of our picks.

ps. I don’t see why 1st 2 rounds are arbitrary.
I noted what the draft people say.
look at the drafts. There’s usually a pretty big fall off after the round of players who make it. Or players who become above average talents.

But sometimes it's 1st and 2nd round picks that matter to you. Sometimes just first round picks (like when we split top two picks defense and offense for three years). Which makes me think if 3rd round picks made your argument sound better, you'd say that many analysts think the top 100 or so guys are important.

I also think it's been shown that there's a bigger talent drop off from the top 10 picks to the end of the 1st round than there is from the end of the 1st to the end of the 2nd*. And that the drop off (or value of the pick) gets smaller as the draft goes on.

And ultimately, if you hit on a late round guy or a guy that wasn't drafted (like AV and RF), it means that you have less of a need at that position so you can spend premium capital elsewhere.

I do think that we were too heavy on skill positions (particularly pass catchers) when drafting for the offense. But I think that was a combination of WR contracts starting to take off and wanting to keep costs down because we were spending so much on offense because of Ben's contract.

I think our pholosiphy when we had a franchise QB was to let the franchise QB bring up the guys on offense because he makes everyone better. Then use draft capital on defense. Because a great QB and a great defense is a really good way to win.

We just didn't get it done. I'd say that the main reason is because we turned the ball over too many times in the playoffs (and too many of those turnovers turned into DTDs).

Now that we don't have a franchise QB (and when it was pretty clear he was declining), we've been shifting the focus to the offense. Not surprisingly because the guys who play at positions with long tenures (QB and OL) all aged out at about the same time.

Now we're building a young offense and the defense is the one that will age out (particularly on DL where we already lost Tuitt, and Cam and Alualu are old).

Hopefully the offense can become good (or at least not terrible) while TJ and Minkah are still in their primes. If we miss on Kenny, then we'll be out of sync again and the O and D won't be good at the same time until we have new generations on both sides of the ball...which is depressing to think about (and probably has a reasonable chance of happening).

* This is why I think we should have been looking at trading out of the 1st into the top of the 2nd. I think teams overvalue the 1st round idea and the 5th year option that comes with the 1st round pick. I think those options are much less valuable now with how they changed the pay scale for them. But we still seem to value them highly. I feel like that's a "market inefficiency" we could try to exploit...but who knows what the trade offers they get look like.