Dramatic changes in QB geometry

[Oviedo]

The last 36 hours has really changed the geometry of the NFL QB equation. The AFC got another really good QB when Russell Wilson, not Aaron Rodgers, went to Denver. Rodgers signed a huge extension for a team no one thought he wanted to play for. The good is that the AFC West is going to eat themselves alive...two good teams may not make the play-offs.

For the NFC, other than LA is there really a legitimate option to Green Bay? Unlikely!

What does this mean for us. I think it confirms we don't reach for a QB in a very average QB draft. While I have a strong feeling that Willis could become the next Dak Prescott, I still think we should use our early picks for the OL or DL. Build from the inside out. I think our focus should be Trubisky in free agency so we don't have any "need" to draft a QB early.

I thuink we will see a "free fall" of QBs in the draft because no one is in absolute love with any of these guys. Could likely get a guy in Round 2 or 3, but I'm still going after the big uglies early

[Ernie]

The last 36 hours has really changed the geometry of the NFL QB equation. The AFC got another really good QB when Russell Wilson, not Aaron Rodgers, went to Denver. Rodgers signed a huge extension for a team no one thought he wanted to play for. The good is that the AFC West is going to eat themselves alive...two good teams may not make the play-offs.

For the NFC, other than LA is there really a legitimate option to Green Bay? Unlikely!

What does this mean for us. I think it confirms we don't reach for a QB in a very average QB draft. While I have a strong feeling that Willis could become the next Dak Prescott, I still think we should use our early picks for the OL or DL. Build from the inside out. I think our focus should be Trubisky in free agency so we don't have any "need" to draft a QB early.

I thuink we will see a "free fall" of QBs in the draft because no one is in absolute love with any of these guys. Could likely get a guy in Round 2 or 3, but I'm still going after the big uglies early

I'm really hoping for Trubisky... Wilson going to Denver increases the odds of that hapoening

[WindyCitySteel]

I'm really hoping for Trubisky... Wilson going to Denver increases the odds of that hapoening

Do you think he has a chance to be a legit franchise QB that can compete with the powerhouse QBs in the AFC?

If not, what's the point? We'll just be reliving the 1990's.

[WindyCitySteel]

I'd take Ridder or Strong in the 2nd and have a talk with Cam, tell him that this year is a retooling year and ask if he wants a legit shot at a ring.

[WindyCitySteel]

If Tuitt comes back, I'm shopping Heyward. Draft DL in the first round to pair with Tuitt and Loudermilk, accumulate picks, and start what is hopefully a short retooling. Ridder or Strong in the 2nd round, let them sit for a year and watch Rudolph and Haskins improve our draft stock in 2023.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will not be Super Bowl contenders in 2022, and that's OK as long as they act accordingly.

[SteelBucks]

If Tuitt comes back, I'm shopping Heyward. Draft DL in the first round to pair with Tuitt and Loudermilk, accumulate picks, and start what is hopefully a short retooling. Ridder or Strong in the 2nd round, let them sit for a year and watch Rudolph and Haskins improve our draft stock in 2023.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will not be Super Bowl contenders in 2022, and that's OK as long as they act accordingly.

Shopping Heyward is nuts. Tuitt coming back has no effect on Cam and the only thing you’re doing is making the DL even more suspect. We are not trading one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL.

[Eich]

Shopping Heyward is nuts. Tuitt coming back has no effect on Cam and the only thing you’re doing is making the DL even more suspect. We are not trading one the the best defensive lineman in the NFL.

Agreed. Nuts. Won't happen. He's the face of that defense, its heart and soul, along with Watt.

[Oviedo]

If Tuitt comes back, I'm shopping Heyward. Draft DL in the first round to pair with Tuitt and Loudermilk, accumulate picks, and start what is hopefully a short retooling. Ridder or Strong in the 2nd round, let them sit for a year and watch Rudolph and Haskins improve our draft stock in 2023.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will not be Super Bowl contenders in 2022, and that's OK as long as they act accordingly.

"Just say no to drugs"

Put that in the never ever category

[WindyCitySteel]

Shopping Heyward is nuts. Tuitt coming back has no effect on Cam and the only thing you’re doing is making the DL even more suspect. We are not trading one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL.

Because they're a dumb, stubborn team that can't admit they're not a Super Bowl contender, and likely won't be for the rest of Cam's career.

[WindyCitySteel]

"Just say no to drugs"

Put that in the never ever category

Put that in the "I'm OK with 9 wins and a blowout playoff loss every year" category.

Mediocrity is the enemy of good, which is the enemy of great.

[feltdizz]

If Tuitt comes back, I'm shopping Heyward. Draft DL in the first round to pair with Tuitt and Loudermilk, accumulate picks, and start what is hopefully a short retooling. Ridder or Strong in the 2nd round, let them sit for a year and watch Rudolph and Haskins improve our draft stock in 2023.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will not be Super Bowl contenders in 2022, and that's OK as long as they act accordingly.

How can you be so loud and wrong so often?

smh.. no, no way you move Cam. How do you trust Tuitt given his injury history?

No way dude

[feltdizz]

Put that in the "I'm OK with 9 wins and a blowout playoff loss every year" category.

Mediocrity is the enemy of good, which is the enemy of great.

Now this is some strawman logic.

Why would that mean someone is okay with 9 wins? What it means is they are okay with Cams production and leadership.

[WindyCitySteel]

It's about making the team better in the long run. If the Steelers roll with Mason and Trubisky this year, I'd bet Cam would be open to going to a Denver or GB or some other contender for a last shot at a ring.

Otherwise, Cam leaves ringless in a couple seasons and the Steelers are stuck with a huge dead cap hit just when they're on the upswing.

You guys are taking this too personally.

https://media.tenor.com/images/31b73682294659524b9a3b6acf2b6f6b/tenor.gif

[feltdizz]

It's about making the team better in the long run. If the Steelers roll with Mason and Trubisky this year, I'd bet Cam would be open to going to a Denver or GB or some other contender for a last shot at a ring.

Otherwise, Cam leaves ringless in a couple seasons and the Steelers are stuck with a huge dead cap hit just when they're on the upswing.

You guys are taking this too personally.

https://media.tenor.com/images/31b73682294659524b9a3b6acf2b6f6b/tenor.gif

You keep speaking for Cam. If he wants out we damn sure won’t stop him. But if he wants to stay.. he is a Steeler until he retires.

and what if we hit in a QB in the draft this year or next?

We are not better without Cam.

Also, if Cam doesn’t get a ring so freaking what. He isn’t the first great defender to never get a ring.

[WindyCitySteel]

You keep speaking for Cam. If he wants out we damn sure won’t stop him. But if he wants to stay.. he is a Steeler until he retires.

and what if we hit in a QB in the draft this year or next?

We are not better without Cam.

Also, if Cam doesn’t get a ring so freaking what. He isn’t the first great defender to never get a ring.

Who's thinking for Cam now?

No, not better this year, but by the time the next Super Bowl window opens, they could be.

Hopefully the new GM will be able to think outside the heart-shaped box the fans can't seem to find their way out of.

[NorthCoast]

It's about making the team better in the long run. If the Steelers roll with Mason and Trubisky this year, I'd bet Cam would be open to going to a Denver or GB or some other contender for a last shot at a ring.

Otherwise, Cam leaves ringless in a couple seasons and the Steelers are stuck with a huge dead cap hit just when they're on the upswing.

You guys are taking this too personally.

https://media.tenor.com/images/31b73682294659524b9a3b6acf2b6f6b/tenor.gifWay off here. Heyward was playing at the top of his game last season and was one of the few reasons why the defense wasn't a complete embarrassment. And given the gauntlet of AFC QBs now any team that wants to compete had better have a top 10 or better yet top 5 defense. Steelers won't have that without Heyward.

[feltdizz]

Who's thinking for Cam now?

No, not better this year, but by the time the next Super Bowl window opens, they could be.

Hopefully the new GM will be able to think outside the heart-shaped box the fans can't seem to find their way out of.

No.. I’m thinking and speaking for me.

Read it again. I said if Cam says he wants a trade so he can win a ring then we will cross that bridge and I’m sure the FO would let him go.

I’m saying “so what” if he doesn’t win a ring. I’m sure he wants one but does he want to move to a new team to get it? Has he expressed this anywhere?

[WindyCitySteel]

Way off here. Heyward was playing at the top of his game last season and was one of the few reasons why the defense wasn't a complete embarrassment. And given the gauntlet of AFC QBs now any team that wants to compete had better have a top 10 or better yet top 5 defense. Steelers won't have that without Heyward.

They could have the #1 defense and won't challenge for a Super Bowl without a legit QB.

Stunning that so many don't understand that reality.

Worse yet, they do, but are perfectly happy with a ceiling of being a fringe playoff team.

[feltdizz]

They could have the #1 defense and won't challenge for a Super Bowl without a legit QB.

Stunning that so many don't understand that reality.

Is the draft over already?

Do you even know who the next GM is yet?

Why are you speaking like you know the future? Of course your future is grim because you seem to be a big ole bag of negativity but that doesn’t make your predictions gospel.

All the media has done is make wild predictions on our QB situation because everyone knows we have to make a move this year or next depending on how things unfold this season.

[papillon]

They could have the #1 defense and won't challenge for a Super Bowl without a legit QB.

Stunning that so many don't understand that reality.

Worse yet, they do, but are perfectly happy with a ceiling of being a fringe playoff team.

A "legit" quarterback with the #1 defense doesn't have to be a HOF caliber quarterback. You need a guy that can sustain drives and put some points on the board. You don't have to have Mahomes, Allen, Rogers, etc., Matthew Stafford and a great defense just won the Super Bowl. He's a good, not great, quarterback and while we may not have that on the roster right now, there might be one in FA that ciould do the job this year and next or one of this year's quarterbacks could be that guy this year or next. I'm not buying that this group of quarterbacks is all that bad. One or two of them will be very good NFL quarterbacks for the next 10 years.

Pappy

[T.Ferguson]

I'd take Ridder or Strong in the 2nd and have a talk with Cam, tell him that this year is a retooling year and ask if he wants a legit shot at a ring.

Oh nvm you're talking about Hayward, I was like what lol.

[feltdizz]

A "legit" quarterback with the #1 defense doesn't have to be a HOF caliber quarterback. You need a guy that can sustain drives and put some points on the board. You don't have to have Mahomes, Allen, Rogers, etc., Matthew Stafford and a great defense just won the Super Bowl. He's a good, not great, quarterback and while we may not have that on the roster right now, there might be one in FA that ciould do the job this year and next or one of this year's quarterbacks could be that guy this year or next. I'm not buying that this group of quarterbacks is all that bad. One or two of them will be very good NFL quarterbacks for the next 10 years.

Pappy

I think part of the reason no one is excited about this years class is because they are all from smaller schools and not the big name schools like Florida, Clemson, Bama, etc

its a bunch of middle of the pack programs but that has no bearings on how they play at the next level.

I have a feeling this years draft will be better than next years in terms of talent at QB. Young and Stroud are great players but they also play for teams that are loaded so we have no idea if they will excell or fall flat once the playing field is level.

[Steel Maniac]

We need to find out where Heyward's head is at first and formost. If he wants to stay then odds say he probably will but with a new GM coming in, who knows? We are definitely a better defense with Heyward but I too am leary about a massive dead cap hit after a couple more years with him.

I guess the bottom line is are we building for the "right now" or the long term /"two years from now"??

[papillon]

We need to find out where Heyward's head is at first and formost. If he wants to stay then odds say he probably will but with a new GM coming in, who knows? We are definitely a better defense with Heyward but I too am leary about a massive dead cap hit after a couple more years with him.

I guess the bottom line is are we building for the "right now" or the long term /"two years from now"??

Is there a question about Heyward wanting to return? I haven't heard any rumors that he wants out of Pittsburgh. I know Tuitt's desire to play at all has been questioned but I hadn't heard anything about Heyward.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

They could have the #1 defense and won't challenge for a Super Bowl without a legit QB.

Stunning that so many don't understand that reality.

Worse yet, they do, but are perfectly happy with a ceiling of being a fringe playoff team.You apparently didn't see my list of non-elite QBs that have challenged for a SB in the last 5 years.

[SteelBucks]

Is there a question about Heyward wanting to return? I haven't heard any rumors that he wants out of Pittsburgh. I know Tuitt's desire to play at all has been questioned but I hadn't heard anything about Heyward.

Pappy

There are no rumors and anyone that says Heyward wants out is lying.

Gotta love social media where everyone has a right to say crazy things.

[WindyCitySteel]

We need to find out where Heyward's head is at first and formost. If he wants to stay then odds say he probably will but with a new GM coming in, who knows? We are definitely a better defense with Heyward but I too am leary about a massive dead cap hit after a couple more years with him.

I guess the bottom line is are we building for the "right now" or the long term /"two years from now"??

Yup, mark my words, in a couple years when fans are complaining about not having the pieces around their new franchise QB, they'll be asking why Cam is costing $40M against the cap when he's not playing.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/27/3a/ad/273aadcd16e17f9e451c182738eeff1a.jpg

[WindyCitySteel]

You apparently didn't see my list of non-elite QBs that have challenged for a SB in the last 5 years.

What kind of supporting casts and coaching staffs did they have? How many actually won the Super Bowl? Was the conference they were in as loaded at QB as the AFC is now?

Unless the Steelers draft the next Marino I don't see them challenging in the AFC for the rest of Cam's career. And once he goes downhill, it will be fast. They've worn a lot of tread off of his tires.

[hawaiiansteel]

Yup, mark my words, in a couple years when fans are complaining about not having the pieces around their new franchise QB, they'll be asking why Cam is costing $40M against the cap when he's not playing.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/27/3a/ad/273aadcd16e17f9e451c182738eeff1a.jpg

Cam's maximum cap hit is a little over $24 million in 2024, which is the last year of his contract.

where did you get the figure of $40 million from?

[WindyCitySteel]

Cam's maximum cap hit is a little over $24 million in 2024, which is the last year of his contract.

where did you get the figure of $40 million from?

Pulled it out of a deep, dark place, but I suspect he'll be a prime candidate for a restructure this Spring.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

It's about making the team better in the long run. If the Steelers roll with Mason and Trubisky this year, I'd bet Cam would be open to going to a Denver or GB or some other contender for a last shot at a ring.

Otherwise, Cam leaves ringless in a couple seasons and the Steelers are stuck with a huge dead cap hit just when they're on the upswing.

You guys are taking this too personally.

https://media.tenor.com/images/31b73682294659524b9a3b6acf2b6f6b/tenor.gif

Let's put it into perspective.

Trading Cam actually costs you against the cap this season, but frees up all future hits against the cap. The only reason to do this is because the team is getting a great haul for the guy. What are you suggesting the Steelers could get?

The team who trades for him gets him at a salary of $11M in 2022, $15.85M in 2023 and $16M in 2024. Assuming there is no restructuring, the team can cut him anytime without taking a dead money cap hit.

[feltdizz]

Pulled it out of a deep, dark place, but I suspect he'll be a prime candidate for a restructure this Spring.

haha.. this place?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjUS5Yo7Lxra4JzLJFtgI-oPbRTnPR1anT7A&usqp=CAU

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Cam's maximum cap hit is a little over $24 million in 2024, which is the last year of his contract.

where did you get the figure of $40 million from?

Actually, I see his cap hit around $22.4M with a dead cap hit of $6.4M if released/retired/traded.

[feltdizz]

Cam's maximum cap hit is a little over $24 million in 2024, which is the last year of his contract.

where did you get the figure of $40 million from?

at least we now know why Windy post the way he does.

He just pulls negative stuff out his backside that isn’t even based on facts and then responds to it.

[NJ-STEELER]

if we're no way close to contending and want to rebuild for the future as many brought up in the rodgers thread.


why wouldn't you think about trading Cam for some young assets? he clearly won't be around once the rebuild is complete.

we have 2 old aging vets still playing at the top of their game who both cost a boat load of money for their positions .

[WindyCitySteel]

if we're no way close to contending and want to rebuild for the future as many brought up in the rodgers thread.


why wouldn't you think about trading Cam for some young assets? he clearly won't be around once the rebuild is complete.

we have 2 old aging vets still playing at the top of their game who both cost a boat load of money for their positions .

Weird flex in this place. People don't want to "do Cam dirty", but are perfectly happy running the wheels off of Najee and kicking him to the curb.

[Captain Lemming]

Weird flex in this place. People don't want to "do Cam dirty", but are perfectly happy running the wheels off of Najee and kicking him to the curb.

Nah, you are arguing with Dizz. He would NOT do Najee dirty.

He believes in paying big bucks to running backs no matter how many examples there is of how foolish it is. :)

[Oviedo]

There are no rumors and anyone that says Heyward wants out is lying.

Gotta love social media where everyone has a right to say crazy things.

Crazy people say crazy things

While they may like to win a Super Bowl, most who play in the NFL don't. There are other factors that provide satisfaction like your work environment, city, etc. I think Heyward may value being a Steeler his whole career more than being a "loaner" player and having a ring for another team.

[Captain Lemming]

I'd take Ridder or Strong in the 2nd and have a talk with Cam, tell him that this year is a retooling year and ask if he wants a legit shot at a ring.



why wouldn't you think about trading Cam for some young assets? he clearly won't be around once the rebuild is complete.

we have 2 old aging vets still playing at the top of their game who both cost a boat load of money for their positions .

I was hating this idea at first.. but that is a LOT of coin freed up. Especially if you trade both.

I would try to sell Cam that it would benefit him. Not that he wants out but it is a much better shot at a ring. One ring and he is a sure HOFer.

I would give him the choice but explain this is a long game and he will likely retire ringless. Or be the missing piece to a championship.

Denver would bite. "The Rams did just what you are trying to do but they needed more than a new QB, DT was CRUCIAL." Imagine KC with Cam?

What does Green Bays dline look like? Better for us NFC.

Even in conference, by the time we are truly contenders Cam will be done.

We don't pursue ANY older vets EVEN GILMORE who I covet. No Bobby Wagner.

Go after JC hard. We cant draft that position. Pursue a solid young olineman or two and don't be shy about spending.

Build interior defense through the draft.

[NorthCoast]

Remind me again why this guy isn't a starting QB?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-_5j8wn3Ig

[WindyCitySteel]

I was hating this idea at first.. but that is a LOT of coin freed up. Especially if you trade both.


Wait, I was only talking about Cam, who else are you an NJ talking about?

[WindyCitySteel]

Remind me again why this guy isn't a starting QB?


That's one of the saddest highlight reels I've ever seen. Guys are wide open, underthrown, we're trailing bad teams by multiple scores. I think I saw one big time throw of the bunch.

[Eich]

That's one of the saddest highlight reels I've ever seen. Guys are wide open, underthrown, we're trailing bad teams by multiple scores. I think I saw one big time throw of the bunch.

It wasn't that bad. He had some decent throws to DJ and Juju. But it's certainly not anything to get excited about for sure. It's weird how I barely remember that season.

Where's the Haskins highlight film from the Redskins?

[Northern_Blitz]

Wait, I was only talking about Cam, who else are you an NJ talking about?

I assume they mean Tuitt.

If you're going to trade Cam, you should trade Tuitt too.

And if you use that logic, probably anyone that's good and past something like the middle of their 2nd contract.

I think breaking a team down to the studs isn't a good idea. Because you lose a lot in the process.

Kind of like how Juju has been the vet in our WR room for a while even though he's still very young.

Cam's going to be the soul of the team for a few years (and probably has been for a while). I think that has value.

So I'd probably shop around - because I think GMs should always be shopping every possibility - but I'd need a pretty big payment to trade Cam.

[feltdizz]

I was hating this idea at first.. but that is a LOT of coin freed up. Especially if you trade both.

I would try to sell Cam that it would benefit him. Not that he wants out but it is a much better shot at a ring. One ring and he is a sure HOFer.

I would give him the choice but explain this is a long game and he will likely retire ringless. Or be the missing piece to a championship.

Denver would bite. "The Rams did just what you are trying to do but they needed more than a new QB, DT was CRUCIAL." Imagine KC with Cam?

What does Green Bays dline look like? Better for us NFC.

Even in conference, by the time we are truly contenders Cam will be done.

We don't pursue ANY older vets EVEN GILMORE who I covet. No Bobby Wagner.

Go after JC hard. We cant draft that position. Pursue a solid young olineman or two and don't be shy about spending.

Build interior defense through the draft.

I’m sure Cam already knows there are better places for a ring next year.

What people need to realize is every NFL player isn’t ring chasing. Some are ild school and want to win where they are instead of taking the risk and ending their career around a bunch of strangers who will cut them quick fast if it doesn’t work out.

[WindyCitySteel]

I assume they mean Tuitt.

If you're going to trade Cam, you should trade Tuitt too.


Disagree. Tuitt's only a year older than TJ and almost five years younger than Cam. Draft a pro-ready QB and a NT and the DL is in good shape.

[Oviedo]

I assume they mean Tuitt.

If you're going to trade Cam, you should trade Tuitt too.

And if you use that logic, probably anyone that's good and past something like the middle of their 2nd contract.

I think breaking a team down to the studs isn't a good idea. Because you lose a lot in the process.

Kind of like how Juju has been the vet in our WR room for a while even though he's still very young.

Cam's going to be the soul of the team for a few years (and probably has been for a while). I think that has value.

So I'd probably shop around - because I think GMs should always be shopping every possibility - but I'd need a pretty big payment to trade Cam.

That is why stupid people don't run NFL teams. They actually have to do more than throw turds on the wall to see if they stick

[Northern_Blitz]

That is why stupid people don't run NFL teams. They actually have to do more than throw turds on the wall to see if they stick

I agree that it's not how I think a successful organization should be run.

I suppose that the counter argument would be that it is kind of how BB runs NE. I think it still needs to be seen that it can be done that way without TB. But selling high and having lots of picks worked pretty well for them. I'm not sure it's repeatable though.

[feltdizz]

Disagree. Tuitt's only a year older than TJ and almost five years younger than Cam. Draft a pro-ready QB and a NT and the DL is in good shape.

Tuitt has also missed 20 games in 7 seasons to injury while Cam has missed 9 in 11 seasons.

Tuitt has a hard time staying healthy and we still don’t know if he is mentally prepared to play this season.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I agree that it's not how I think a successful organization should be run.

I suppose that the counter argument would be that it is kind of how BB runs NE. I think it still needs to be seen that it can be done that way without TB. But selling high and having lots of picks worked pretty well for them. I'm not sure it's repeatable though.

Big difference between the way the Patriots are run and this "burn it to the ground and rebuild" idea. BB allows players to leave one at a time, but retains continuity by still winning while retaining other players who help towards that.

The idea of selling all of your good vets is closer to how the Tampa Bay Rays operate. Once someone gets to be too good, and will be expensive to re-sign, gets traded for young prospects because in a non-salary cap world they won't be able to afford them. Here we are just talking about getting them off the books. What are you actually going to get for Heyward and Tuiit?

[feltdizz]

I agree that it's not how I think a successful organization should be run.

I suppose that the counter argument would be that it is kind of how BB runs NE. I think it still needs to be seen that it can be done that way without TB. But selling high and having lots of picks worked pretty well for them. I'm not sure it's repeatable though.

Yeah, lets see how successful that is without TB.

[Northern_Blitz]

Big difference between the way the Patriots are run and this "burn it to the ground and rebuild" idea. BB allows players to leave one at a time, but retains continuity by still winning while retaining other players who help towards that.

The idea of selling all of your good vets is closer to how the Tampa Bay Rays operate. Once someone gets to be too good, and will be expensive to re-sign, gets traded for young prospects because in a non-salary cap world they won't be able to afford them. Here we are just talking about getting them off the books. What are you actually going to get for Heyward and Tuiit?

I think that's fair.

I was just trying to think about an example that kind of challenged my original position that trading guys like Cam and Tuitt wouldn't be a good idea. So "What would Billy B do?". I don't think he'd trade Cam at this point anyway because he's still more valuable to the team than he would get back in trade.

Maybe if he was in a contract year? But he's still pretty far away from that.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I think that's fair.

I was just trying to think about an example that kind of challenged my original position that trading guys like Cam and Tuitt wouldn't be a good idea. So "What would Billy B do?". I don't think he'd trade Cam at this point anyway because he's still more valuable to the team than he would get back in trade.

Maybe if he was in a contract year? But he's still pretty far away from that.

Agreed, Cam and Tuitt are two different cases.

Cam does not save against the cap in '22 unless it is post June 1. What trading Cam does for the team is say that we just so badly want rid of his contract for the future that we will eat it all today, which would almost be a wash. Assuming that we all believe he can still play, and is a great leader in this locker room, you had better get back a huge haul in order for it to be worth it. What comes back for Cam? A third? A second? Two thirds? I don't think you get any more than this and to me that is not nearly enough for the value he brings as both a player and a leader.

The better contract to trade is Tuitt's. The Steelers eat $9.7M and the acquiring team gets him at a bargain basement number of $4.9M. He is also much younger than Heyward. Here is the problem though, the reason you are willing to do that deal is the same reason the acquiring team is wary of taking him - the combination of season ending injury, injury history, and mental mindset. Now throw a whole new team and city into the mix and that is quite a gamble. What would a team gamble for a guy with that many question marks? A fourth? A fifth? For that kind of return I would just keep him and hope he returns to dominance. Then you either resign him if he is back, or let him retire in '23 and eat the remaining $4.7M dead cap.

[Northern_Blitz]

Agreed, Cam and Tuitt are two different cases.

Cam does not save against the cap in '22 unless it is post June 1. What trading Cam does for the team is say that we just so badly want rid of his contract for the future that we will eat it all today, which would almost be a wash. Assuming that we all believe he can still play, and is a great leader in this locker room, you had better get back a huge haul in order for it to be worth it. What comes back for Cam? A third? A second? Two thirds? I don't think you get any more than this and to me that is not nearly enough for the value he brings as both a player and a leader.

The better contract to trade is Tuitt's. The Steelers eat $9.7M and the acquiring team gets him at a bargain basement number of $4.9M. He is also much younger than Heyward. Here is the problem though, the reason you are willing to do that deal is the same reason the acquiring team is wary of taking him - the combination of season ending injury, injury history, and mental mindset. Now throw a whole new team and city into the mix and that is quite a gamble. What would a team gamble for a guy with that many question marks? A fourth? A fifth? For that kind of return I would just keep him and hope he returns to dominance. Then you either resign him if he is back, or let him retire in '23 and eat the remaining $4.7M dead cap.

I agree that it's likely that both are worth more to us than other teams.

But a GMs job is to talk to other GMs. And I guess I'd listen if someone wanted to dramatically overpay for anyone on the team (except probably Watt because of how good he is and how much it would hurt to trade his contract - $72.5M dead money I think).

[WindyCitySteel]

Big difference between the way the Patriots are run and this "burn it to the ground and rebuild" idea. BB allows players to leave one at a time, but retains continuity by still winning while retaining other players who help towards that.

The idea of selling all of your good vets is closer to how the Tampa Bay Rays operate. Once someone gets to be too good, and will be expensive to re-sign, gets traded for young prospects because in a non-salary cap world they won't be able to afford them. Here we are just talking about getting them off the books. What are you actually going to get for Heyward and Tuiit?

Trading Heyward for picks isn't "burning it to the ground". Getting rid of Najee, Watt, Minkah, DJ, etc. would be burning it to the ground.

[WindyCitySteel]

Tuitt has also missed 20 games in 7 seasons to injury while Cam has missed 9 in 11 seasons.

Tuitt has a hard time staying healthy and we still don’t know if he is mentally prepared to play this season.

Certainly factors that have to be considered.

[papillon]

Here's my take on why the Steelers won't trade or "sell" Cam Heyward. The Steelers, imo, don't build a team to win the Super Bowl. They build the team to make the playoffs and then try to win a single elimination tournament to win the Super Bowl. Some teams, load up trying to win the Super Bowl at the detriment to the team in the future if they are unsuccessful. The Rams come to mind and they actually won the Super Bowl this year, it will be interesting to see where they are in 2 years. Since the Steelers are looking for a ticket to the dance they aren't going to sell an asset that can certainly help them win enough games to get into the playoffs. This year and last were good examples of this, even though the Steelers made the playoffs and were blown out, you never know what happens once the playoff games begin.

Just my opinion

Pappy

[Northern_Blitz]

Here's my take on why the Steelers won't trade or "sell" Cam Heyward. The Steelers, imo, don't build a team to win the Super Bowl. They build the team to make the playoffs and then try to win a single elimination tournament to win the Super Bowl. Some teams, load up trying to win the Super Bowl at the detriment to the team in the future if they are unsuccessful. The Rams come to mind and they actually won the Super Bowl this year, it will be interesting to see where they are in 2 years. Since the Steelers are looking for a ticket to the dance they aren't going to sell an asset that can certainly help them win enough games to get into the playoffs. This year and last were good examples of this, even though the Steelers made the playoffs and were blown out, you never know what happens once the playoff games begin.

Just my opinion

Pappy

I think this is a really good way of describing how the Steelers operate. I think their idea is that doing this means that you can consistently be around, and having more "at bats" in the playoffs should give you a better chance of winning the the long run. And if you're usually competitive, it's probably also easier to sell tickets.

The Rams have a different economic model to deal with in LA, where probably no one really cares about them. So they tried to make a big splash to gain eyeballs. And they got the big prize. I wonder how long the fans will stick around when their rebuild comes.

Thanks Pappy.

[Steel Maniac]

Here's my take on why the Steelers won't trade or "sell" Cam Heyward. The Steelers, imo, don't build a team to win the Super Bowl. They build the team to make the playoffs and then try to win a single elimination tournament to win the Super Bowl. Some teams, load up trying to win the Super Bowl at the detriment to the team in the future if they are unsuccessful. The Rams come to mind and they actually won the Super Bowl this year, it will be interesting to see where they are in 2 years. Since the Steelers are looking for a ticket to the dance they aren't going to sell an asset that can certainly help them win enough games to get into the playoffs. This year and last were good examples of this, even though the Steelers made the playoffs and were blown out, you never know what happens once the playoff games begin.

Just my opinion

Pappy

I think it depends on what Hayward wants at this point in his career. IF he says he wants to be traded, I think they'll oblige him but I think he's a lifer here. So I think he stays.

[whisper]

Do you think he has a chance to be a legit franchise QB that can compete with the powerhouse QBs in the AFC?

If not, what's the point? We'll just be reliving the 1990's.

If we are lucky we'll be reliving the 1990's. Let's not forget how good those teams were, sans a franchise QB. Those D's were fierce, the OL and running games were very good. We even appeared, and should have won, a SB. Do you really think the current org. is likely to build a team with as much talent as Woodson, Lake, Lloyd, Greene, Seals, Thigpen, John Jackson, John L. Williams, Dirt Dawson, Searcy, Buckner, Steed, Kirkland, Chad Brown, Bettis, Ward, Faneca, etc.? I don't see it.

[feltdizz]

If we are lucky we'll be reliving the 1990's. Let's not forget how good those teams were, sans a franchise QB. Those D's were fierce, the OL and running games were very good. We even appeared, and should have won, a SB. Do you really think the current org. is likely to build a team with as much talent as Woodson, Lake, Lloyd, Greene, Seals, Thigpen, John Jackson, John L. Williams, Dirt Dawson, Searcy, Buckner, Steed, Kirkland, Chad Brown, Bettis, Ward, Faneca, etc.? I don't see it.

yeah.. when people talk about the horrible years before Ben I always laugh.

It was horrible that we kept getting so close but we had some great teams in the 90’s.

and besides the SB I think the worst thing about those teams is the D always blew coverage or made a mistake they never made all season.. or we passed at the GL when the running game was working.

Still mad at the Denver loss. If it wasn’t the end of the quarter I think we run the ball in for a TD but we had time to think and tried to get cute.

[WindyCitySteel]

Point is the QB always held us from the ultimate goal. You need a clutch QB in the playoffs. The AFC gauntlet is insane now, we'd better have a Ravens 2000 type D to compete if we're going with one of the guys left.

[papillon]

I think it depends on what Hayward wants at this point in his career. IF he says he wants to be traded, I think they'll oblige him but I think he's a lifer here. So I think he stays.

I certainly agree that if Heyward were to show interest in leaving that the Steelers would try and oblige him. My point was based on the fact that at this point in time Heyward has not indicated that he wants to be traded and the Steelers haven't indicated that they are willing to trade him. So, I'll stick with my opinion and, like you, I believe he'll be a Steeler next year and help the team get into the playoffs. :D

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Point is the QB always held us from the ultimate goal. You need a clutch QB in the playoffs. The AFC gauntlet is insane now, we'd better have a Ravens 2000 type D to compete if we're going with one of the guys left.

I don’t know if the offense was to blame for that Sam Diego loss.

D blew coverage and let the TE run free 30 yards downfield for an easy TD.

That loss may have hurt the most because we were clearly the better team that year.

[WindyCitySteel]

I don’t know if the offense was to blame for that Sam Diego loss.

D blew coverage and let the TE run free 30 yards downfield for an easy TD.

That loss may have hurt the most because we were clearly the better team that year.

The offense scored 13 points. That day will haunt me forever. Worst loss of my lifetime, bar none.

[T.Ferguson]

The offense scored 13 points. That day will haunt me forever. Worst loss of my lifetime, bar none.

Classic Cowher playoff choke. Steelers almost lost to the inferior Colts the following year in the AFCCG. O'Donnell had to complete a clutch 4th down pass in the 4th quarter and I believe it was Willie Williams that made a shoestring tackle on a 3rd and short in the 4th quarter otherwise Colts likely win. Cowher came from Martyball and it definitely showed in the playoffs.

In regards to the Chargers game, it was a heartbreaker but I seriously doubt the Steelers would've beat the Niners in the SB that year.

[crushedspirit]

Classic Cowher playoff choke. Steelers almost lost to the inferior Colts the following year in the AFCCG. O'Donnell had to complete a clutch 4th down pass in the 4th quarter and I believe it was Willie Williams that made a shoestring tackle on a 3rd and short in the 4th quarter otherwise Colts likely win. Cowher came from Martyball and it definitely showed in the playoffs.

In regards to the Chargers game, it was a heartbreaker but I seriously doubt the Steelers would've beat the Niners in the SB that year.

Well, when you have first and goal at the 9, maybe your QB can make a clutch play? That first pass to Green should have been picked by Gibson, and his 4th down pass was abysmal. Clutch O'Donnell LOL

[WindyCitySteel]

Well, when you have first and goal at the 9, maybe your QB can make a clutch play? That first pass to Green should have been picked by Gibson, and his 4th down pass was abysmal. Clutch O'Donnell LOL

Yup, Cowher got farther with multiple bum QBs than Tomlin did with Ben the last 10 years.

[feltdizz]

Classic Cowher playoff choke. Steelers almost lost to the inferior Colts the following year in the AFCCG. O'Donnell had to complete a clutch 4th down pass in the 4th quarter and I believe it was Willie Williams that made a shoestring tackle on a 3rd and short in the 4th quarter otherwise Colts likely win. Cowher came from Martyball and it definitely showed in the playoffs.

In regards to the Chargers game, it was a heartbreaker but I seriously doubt the Steelers would've beat the Niners in the SB that year.

Don’t forget that hail mary was almost caught if not for the DB raking it out.

Seriously, not sure why but those teams played ridiculously tight.

[feltdizz]

Yup, Cowher got farther with multiple bum QBs than Tomlin did with Ben the last 10 years.

yep.. when you can play physical defense and you aren’t strapped by a huge QB deal you can bring in more studs.

But Cowher didn’t win until he had Ben. We just kept him too long but he is a HOFer so we respected his timeline.


This is why I hope we draft a QB instead of paying bug bucks for a FA Quarterback. Clear the books and spend that money on a CB, ILB and OL.

[NorthCoast]

Rumors now circulating the Steelers are targeting this QB;

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/66/91/4e/66914e43e50ee17c78a2075f715b214a--heaven-can-wait-warren-beatty.jpg

Joe Pendleton would be good veteran competition for Rudolph.

[WindyCitySteel]

yep.. when you can play physical defense and you aren’t strapped by a huge QB deal you can bring in more studs.

But Cowher didn’t win until he had Ben. We just kept him too long but he is a HOFer so we respected his timeline.


Cowher won more without Ben than Tomlin did the last ten years with him. As soon as he got him, AFCC and SB win.

What "studs" did they bring in because Neil and Kordell were cheap? In fact they regularly hemorrhaged free agent talent under Cowher in the Three Rivers Stadium days.

Jesus, they made the AFCC Game the year after they LOST Woodson and Chad Brown. That was a great coaching job by Cowher, who made it to the final four with a 75 rated QB. They lost by 3 pts to a HOF QB who was on the cusp on winning back-to-back Super Bowls.

[flippy]

There’s a QB out there with a SuperBowl ring that was a former 1st round selection that no one is taking about. This is the exact kind of under the radar player the Steelers would be interested in.

None other than…

Blaine Gabbert

[T.Ferguson]

Well, when you have first and goal at the 9, maybe your QB can make a clutch play? That first pass to Green should have been picked by Gibson, and his 4th down pass was abysmal. Clutch O'Donnell LOL

I mean he was clutch on that 4th down pass otherwise Steelers lose with just over 2 minutes left in the game. Yeah he choked in the SB but he was a pretty good QB for that era, definitely better than someone like Brister or Tomczak.

Cowher was a really good coach in a lot of ways but he definitely struggled at times in the playoffs, he also had no clue about QB play (he didn't want to draft Ben and stuck with/had too much confidence in Kordell, see AFCCG 97).

[feltdizz]

Cowher won more without Ben than Tomlin did the last ten years with him. As soon as he got him, AFCC and SB win.

What "studs" did they bring in because Neil and Kordell were cheap? In fact they regularly hemorrhaged free agent talent under Cowher in the Three Rivers Stadium days.

Jesus, they made the AFCC Game the year after they LOST Woodson and Chad Brown. That was a great coaching job by Cowher, who made it to the final four with a 75 rated QB. They lost by 3 pts to a HOF QB who was on the cusp on winning back-to-back Super Bowls.

Sure, young Ben was really good. The older Ben got and the more we paid him, the less we won in the playoffs. Not really that surprising given the way Ben player early on in his career.

I also don’t think Neil and Kordell were bums. Neil was solid and Kordell was really good for a short time. Hence the name slash.

When you aren’t paying big money to a QB you can spend more on other players.

Do we get Bettis if Neil O’Donnell signs our offer? Maybe, Maybe not.

Do we bring in a Kevin Greene if Neil was taking up 12% of the cap?

By no means am I suggesting Cowher wasn’t a great coach. I just think moving forward if we get a solid QB bums like Neil and Kordell we can have similar success.

I also think people downplay the impact Kordell had in that short time as a mobile QB. Dude was a beast until he was forced to win games with his arm.

[Oviedo]

I mean he was clutch on that 4th down pass otherwise Steelers lose with just over 2 minutes left in the game. Yeah he choked in the SB but he was a pretty good QB for that era, definitely better than someone like Brister or Tomczak.

Cowher was a really good coach in a lot of ways but he definitely struggled at times in the playoffs, he also had no clue about QB play (he didn't want to draft Ben and stuck with/had too much confidence in Kordell, see AFCCG 97).

Let's also not forget the great seasons of:

7-9
6-10
6-10
8-8

But those Cowher seasons seem to cause temporary amnesia for some. More than 25% of his seasons were .500 or less. Those never seem to get mentioned...why?

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Rumors now circulating the Steelers are targeting this QB;

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/66/91/4e/66914e43e50ee17c78a2075f715b214a--heaven-can-wait-warren-beatty.jpg

Joe Pendleton would be good veteran competition for Rudolph.

Apparently AR2 just sold the team to Pendleton.

[BURGH86STEEL]

If Tuitt comes back, I'm shopping Heyward. Draft DL in the first round to pair with Tuitt and Loudermilk, accumulate picks, and start what is hopefully a short retooling. Ridder or Strong in the 2nd round, let them sit for a year and watch Rudolph and Haskins improve our draft stock in 2023.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will not be Super Bowl contenders in 2022, and that's OK as long as they act accordingly.
The Steelers will not shop Heyward unless Heyward wants to be shopped.

We don't even know which players will be available to the Steelers in free agency or the draft. No one knows what the Steelers will be in 2022. But since you believe this then don't be overly critical of the organization next season.

IMO the Steelers are an organization that attempts to win games. Doesn't matter who's playing QB, the coach, ect. This organization isn't taking a season off. Why? Because their customers pay a lot of money to watch this team win games.

Think for a second what would happen if the Steelers willingly tanked a season for the unknown benefit of the future. How many fans would continue to watch, show up for games, keep season tickets, ect?

[Ernie]

Heyward and Tuitt will allow you to stay competitive in the trenches...regardless of the opponent. No way do I move on from either if they still want to play football.

[NorthCoast]

See that last line. The hate for Steelers is shining through again by Florio.... I mean really??? Kaepernick?!? The guy has been out of football for half a decade and when he was playing he wasn't exactly a HOFer.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/10/the-door-is-closed-for-colin-kaepernick/

The door is closed for Colin Kaepernick
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2022, 8:18 PM EST


Starting five years ago, the NFL wrongfully colluded against Colin Kaepernick. Five years of collusion later, the NFL has won.

It’s over for Colin Kaepernick. There’s no way that any team will sign him at this point, not after he has gone half of a decade without playing football of any kind.

Yes, he posted a workout video on Thursday. Sure, Schefty quoted an anonymous source who says Kaepernick is in the best shape of his life. (It’s unclear why anonymity is needed for that specific piece of information; it’s hardly a state secret.) It’s still not happening.

I’m a realist. The ability of the NFL to shun Kaepernick for five years slams the door on any effort to return now. If no team was willing to sign him in 2017, 2018, or 2019, no one will be signing him three years later.

It’s not happening. Why would anyone want a quarterback who hasn’t played in five years, especially in light of the inevitably hostile reaction from 30 percent of the fan base if he’s signed at this point?

Is it wrong that he was frozen out for so many years? Yes. Were some in the media complicit in spreading bull**** narratives that allowed teams to justify ignoring him? Absolutely. Regardless, five years removed from his decision to opt out of the last year of his 49ers contract — at a time when the 49ers otherwise would have cut him — it’s over. It’s done. The door has been closed in his face for five years. It’s not opening now.

The Seahawks were the only team to bring Kaepernick in for a visit. They opted not to add Kaepernick to a depth chart led by Russell Wilson, possibly because the team that supposedly embraces competition didn’t want Wilson to have any. Now that Wilson is gone, there’s no impediment to signing Kaepernick.

They won’t. It’s been too long. It’s over. While it would have gotten interesting if former 49ers coach (and Kaepernick advocate) Jim Harbaugh had gotten the Minnesota job, Harbaugh remains at Michigan. Kaepernick remains out of the NFL. That will continue.

At this point, does Kaepernick really want to play? In 2017 and 2018, I think he did. The clumsy and clunky league-organized workout controversy from 2019 strongly suggested that the NFL doesn’t trust Kaepernick, that Kaepernick doesn’t trust the NFL, that neither side is genuinely interested in doing business with the other.

Although Kaepernick previously wanted (and deserved) a contract well in excess of the league minimum, at this point it makes plenty of sense for any team that wants Kaepernick to offer him a bargain-basement contract, if only to see whether he’d take the job. Would he call the bluff? We won’t know until the bluff is made.

It would be stunning if anyone even makes the bluff, regardless of whether Kaepernick would call that bluff. The Kaepernick ship has sailed, and the league’s ability to successfully shun him for five years makes his return to the league at this point incredibly unlikely.

Meanwhile, the quarterback currently at the top of the depth chart in Pittsburgh is Mason Rudolph.

[NorthCoast]

oof.... the kid is having a rough month.....

https://i.redd.it/x4x71wvdc1o81.jpg

[Northern_Blitz]

oof.... the kid is having a rough month.....

https://i.redd.it/x4x71wvdc1o81.jpg

Maybe Josh Dobbs had another girlfriend that he had to steal?

[Chucktownsteeler]

I don't think he is going to have any problem getting tail.

[feltdizz]

oof.... the kid is having a rough month.....

https://i.redd.it/x4x71wvdc1o81.jpg

Maybe he caught her sliding into Trubisky’s DM? :D

[Chucktownsteeler]

Maybe he caught her sliding into Trubisky’s DM? :D

You see Trubisky's wife???? Hot as they come.