Podcast about Ben's Contract (Inside the Cap with Joel Corry)

[Northern_Blitz]

This podcast was recommended on the Terrible Podcast today. Inside the Cap with Joel Corry: The Future For Big Ben and Baker.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/inside-the-cap/the-future-for-big-ben-and-jPH9wu4sLl1/

Talks about Ben's contract status moving forward. My summary of what was said about Ben (Ben stuff is the last ~ third of the podcast).
- Think A. Smith gets comeback player and not Ben (clearly contract related) .
- Trouble with deep ball (like other older QBs). Hasn't played well in the last month.
- Has highest cap hit in league next year @ $41.25M (because of can kicking)
- Have to decide quickly because roster bonus is due 3rd day of the league year (says March 19)
- Would have to add dummy years on an extension to drop the cap number (up to 2025).
- Minimum cap number under max dummy years would be $26.91M (with $1.075M base salary)
- Need lots of cap room because we have lots of commitments now with 36 guys under contract.
- If he played in 2021 and we cut / retire him in 2022, he says we'd be left with dead money of $14.32M dead money. Not sure if this is addition to other dead money because it seems to me that it would be more than this, but not exactly sure how these calculations work. Sounds like this guy is an agent, so he presumably knows this stuff fairly well.
- Going rate for older QBs like this is ~ $25M (but none of the guys he listed are as successful as Ben). 1 year extension of $25. Needs dummy years to be feasible?
- Thinks we're going to lose early and we should draft a QB next year. As I've said, I'd rather be bad for a year and get a higher pick.
- Says that QB class is deep. I don't know anything about NCAA players.

There's also some info on changes of how 5th year options are calculated at the beginning of the podcast. Now it will be based more on performance (pro bowls, % of snaps, etc.).

Looks like this is going to screw us because Minkah and Edmunds will both require higher numbers on 5th year options than they would have if they came due last year.

I guess on the bright side, we lucked out that TJ came up in the old system.

The Browns kind of lucked out on the 5th year option with Baker because he hasn't made a probowl. They might try to negotiate a long term deal though and get him cheaper.

[Northern_Blitz]

This conversation makes me more open to the potential of extending Ben.

I think in Corry's scenarios for extensions above they include adding dummy years. I don't think this is something that the Steelers have done historically, so they may be reluctant to do that. Although to be frank, I'm not exactly sure what "dummy years" are. I assume that these are years at the end of a contract with base salary that you essentially know the player is never going to get. But adding them lets you spread the pro rated part of the cap hit from a bonus in year 1 (but add dead money when the player gets cut / retires before the end of the contract).

[steeler_george]

Ben has to be extended. There is no way we can take on that sum next year, even not re-singing our own FA but to get somewhere close to a manageable cap.

I think Pouncey and Decastro need to be extended as well, and this is to make room to resign our FA and fill out a roster.
It will probably a better move to keep them aboard than cutting and brining in a FA ( even ours) or draft pick to replace them.
Don't forget we only have Chucks as the only T on the roster. ( Here is where I would us draft and our FA)

Sorry If I hijacked the thread bringing in other names...

[feltdizz]

How do you cut a bunch of players if you make a nice run in the playoffs?

Hell, even one and done it really makes no sense to rebuild a 12-4 team.

I think we extend Ben, Pouncey and DD and try to keep as much of this team together as possible.

4 ugly games shouldn’t trump the other 12 where we looks pretty good in most games. I know they were at the end of the year but I also think we were in bye/rest mode to prepare for a playoff run.

[NorthCoast]

So if I understand correctly, if they max the dummy years the Steelers could be paying Roethlisberger in the mid $20M. But his decline is very worrisome and there's a good chance he won't be a starter for more than next year. And I don't see him willing to sit behind anyone.

Besides that, does he give the Steelers a better chance to win going forward? Despite throwing second most passes in the last 5 years, his yds/gm was the fewest in that time. He was tied for second in the NFL for # of passes behind the LOS, #1 in # of passes 0-10 yds. Whether this is to protect him or not, it's drastically affected the offense.

Man I just don't like paying for something with diminishing returns. I know the argument is yea but he won 12 games this year. But it is also true that the December fade is real for the last few years.

[Northern_Blitz]

So if I understand correctly, if they max the dummy years the Steelers could be paying Roethlisberger in the mid $20M. But his decline is very worrisome and there's a good chance he won't be a starter for more than next year. And I don't see him willing to sit behind anyone.

Besides that, does he give the Steelers a better chance to win going forward? Despite throwing second most passes in the last 5 years, his yds/gm was the fewest in that time. He was tied for second in the NFL for # of passes behind the LOS, #1 in # of passes 0-10 yds. Whether this is to protect him or not, it's drastically affected the offense.

Man I just don't like paying for something with diminishing returns. I know the argument is yea but he won 12 games this year. But it is also true that the December fade is real for the last few years.

And would Ben agree to a contract that has "dummy years" in it when he has said in the past that he wants to play as long as someone like Brady.

The coaching staff and front office have more info than us. But it looks like Ben is getting worse. If they think it's a knee, maybe they move forward with an extension.

But if they think he's just aging out, I think it would be hard to sign him to an extension that would have to be on the order of $75M - $100M (even if they didn't have a strong belief that he'd play much of it).

The part that interested me was the talk of the dead money being lower after an extension if he played next year.

I think that assumes that there wouldn't be a signing bonus in the extension? But I'm not sure.

My understanding is that the dead money part of his contract can't be pushed again extension or not.

Here's an article from the depot (written last off season I think) about different potential scenarios with Ben.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/08/looking-ahead-at-2021-ben-roethlisberger-contract-cap-cutting-scenarios/

It looks to me like the situation discussed in the podcast would fit into the "Faux Max Extension...." scenarios. I think these scenarios have the money he's owed next season turned into a SB and distributed over the length of the new extension without any new money (but I may not be reading this right).

I think I agree with the author that Ben would likely push for one of the last two options if he was doing an extension. Why do an extension and not get any more $$$? Especially when the team is almost certainly going to be worse next year no matter what Ben does.

And these last two scenarios don't really drop his cap hit much and it's very high for 3 years. $36M - $38M cap hit in years 1 - 3 if he's at the high end of the QB market, and $34M - $32.7M if he's in the middle of the QB market. I don't think the team does extensions like this because the cap hit is too high.

For example, if we're going to have Ben at a $34M cap hit next year (and ~$40M the next two years), why not just let him play out his contract at $41M this year (without committing an additional $75M).

[steeler_george]

So if I understand correctly, if they max the dummy years the Steelers could be paying Roethlisberger in the mid $20M. But his decline is very worrisome and there's a good chance he won't be a starter for more than next year. And I don't see him willing to sit behind anyone.

Besides that, does he give the Steelers a better chance to win going forward? Despite throwing second most passes in the last 5 years, his yds/gm was the fewest in that time. He was tied for second in the NFL for # of passes behind the LOS, #1 in # of passes 0-10 yds. Whether this is to protect him or not, it's drastically affected the offense.

Man I just don't like paying for something with diminishing returns. I know the argument is yea but he won 12 games this year. But it is also true that the December fade is real for the last few years.


Your going to be paying for him regardless next year if he plays or doesn't. But if he stays on at just 1 year, that means he is going to kill us, because we will have to cut players such as Heyward, Decastro, Pouncey, Haden or whoever to just get below the cap and fill out the mandatory rooster. I don't think we will have money to even keep Watt. ( I am just picking any high priced player) So what would you rather have a deleted roster, or a QB in decline who by the way is still playing really good.

[NorthCoast]

........r a QB in decline who by the way is still playing really good.But is he?? According to this, he isn't even in the top 20:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
I'm not hating on the guy, but when your time is up, your time is up. If he finds the fountain of youth for the next month then I will eat my words and stay quiet on this.

[Northern_Blitz]

Your going to be paying for him regardless next year if he plays or doesn't. But if he stays on at just 1 year, that means he is going to kill us, because we will have to cut players such as Heyward, Decastro, Pouncey, Haden or whoever to just get below the cap and fill out the mandatory rooster. I don't think we will have money to even keep Watt. ( I am just picking any high priced player) So what would you rather have a deleted roster, or a QB in decline who by the way is still playing really good.

I think it's important to differentiate between salary (what we're paying him) and cap hit (how it counts against the cap).

If they cut him before the league year, I don't think they are actually paying him anything (no game checks because he's not on the roster and they'd have to cut him before the roster bonus in mid-March).

But, he's still have a cap hit of $22.25M from bonuses we paid him in the past whose cap hit was spread over the length of the contract.

FWIW I agree that playing out his contract seems like the least likely option. Didn't know it was the highest cap hit in the league.

[steeler_george]

Your going to be paying for him regardless next year if he plays or doesn't. But if he stays on at just 1 year, that means he is going to kill us, because we will have to cut players such as Heyward, Decastro, Pouncey, Haden or whoever to just get below the cap and fill out the mandatory rooster. I don't think we will have money to even keep Watt. ( I am just picking any high priced player) So what would you rather have a deleted roster, or a QB in decline who by the way is still playing really good.


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/

Ok I cut Decastro,Poucey, Ben, Haden, and EBron save 54 Million but only 30 players on roster and cap space of 32 M... how much do we need to sign rookies? We don't even have a LT on roster. Who plays CB? Layne or Cockrell?

CAP TOTALS



Total Available $181,026,871 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Team Cap $ $148,589,102 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Cap Space:$32,437,769 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Savings:[/COLOR]$54,350,000 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)

TRANSACTIONS LOG (HIDE) (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/#)



Released Ben Roethlisberger
(Saved: $19,000,000)
Released Maurkice Pouncey
(Saved: $8,000,000)
Released Joe Haden
(Saved: $12,600,000)
Released David DeCastro
(Saved: $8,750,000)
Released Eric Ebron
(Saved: $6,000,000)

[Northern_Blitz]

I tried to look at this a bit before Christmas.

It doesn't look good to me, but I'm sure there is some extra room that can be made by restructuring / extending some guys.

It looked bad before this upcoming season too. Although then we could restructure Ben to save a bunch of room...which is why he has that $41M cap hit next year.

[Northern_Blitz]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/

Ok I cut Decastro,Poucey, Ben, Haden, and EBron save 54 Million but only 30 players on roster and cap space of 32 M... how much do we need to sign rookies? We don't even have a LT on roster. Who plays CB? Layne or Cockrell?

CAP TOTALS



Total Available $181,026,871 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Team Cap $ $148,589,102 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Cap Space:$32,437,769 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Savings:[/COLOR]$54,350,000 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)

TRANSACTIONS LOG (HIDE) (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/#)



Released Ben Roethlisberger
(Saved: $19,000,000)
Released Maurkice Pouncey
(Saved: $8,000,000)
Released Joe Haden
(Saved: $12,600,000)
Released David DeCastro
(Saved: $8,750,000)
Released Eric Ebron
(Saved: $6,000,000)



And I think we want to pick up options on Fitz and Edmunds.

And after those cuts we probably have something like 30 guys under contract so we need to squeeze another ~23 under the cap.

This is why I don't make the big bucks!

[NorthCoast]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/

Ok I cut Decastro,Poucey, Ben, Haden, and EBron save 54 Million but only 30 players on roster and cap space of 32 M... how much do we need to sign rookies? We don't even have a LT on roster. Who plays CB? Layne or Cockrell?

CAP TOTALS



Total Available $181,026,871 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Team Cap $ $148,589,102 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Cap Space:$32,437,769 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)
Total Savings:[/COLOR]$54,350,000 (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/)

TRANSACTIONS LOG (HIDE) (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/pittsburgh-steelers/2021/#)



Released Ben Roethlisberger
(Saved: $19,000,000)
Released Maurkice Pouncey
(Saved: $8,000,000)
Released Joe Haden
(Saved: $12,600,000)
Released David DeCastro
(Saved: $8,750,000)
Released Eric Ebron
(Saved: $6,000,000)

In my opinion Haden is playing well enough to merit an extension. The CB FAs that are out there next year that wouldn't cost an arm and leg aren't any better (and could do worse). Maybe save a few million there.

[flippy]

I'm waiting to see how we do in the playoffs before having an opinion either way.

I'd hope we can make another run next year somehow, and the year after, and the year after.

[Northern_Blitz]

I'm waiting to see how we do in the playoffs before having an opinion either way.

I'd hope we can make another run next year somehow, and the year after, and the year after.

That's a good point.

The price of all of these guys will go up after winning the SB.
A good problem to have :tt2:tt2:tt2

[NorthCoast]

I'm waiting to see how we do in the playoffs before having an opinion either way.

I'd hope we can make another run next year somehow, and the year after, and the year after.It is too early to be speculating. If the Steelers do a one and done because of the offense, I say clean house on that side of the ball. There really aren't that many 'must keep' on offense at this point. And the turn around can be quick (pointing to MIA this season).

[flippy]

It is too early to be speculating. If the Steelers do a one and done because of the offense, I say clean house on that side of the ball. There really aren't that many 'must keep' on offense at this point. And the turn around can be quick (pointing to MIA this season).

I've been listening to the talking heads talking about Arron Rodgers today and pointing out that the Packers traded up to get QB Jordan Love in the 1st round. People are suggesting this lit a fire under Rodgers and got him to put up an MVP like season as a result.

Rodgers is only 9 months younger than Ben and he looks like he's in his prime.

Maybe Ben could return to the old Big Ben we all knew if we lit a fire under him by drafting his successor in the 1st round of 2021.

Maybe Ben isn't done. Maybe he just needs motivated. And he's mentioned wanting to play as long as Brady who's said he's playing to 45+. We might have another 10 years left with Ben :)

[NorthCoast]

I've been listening to the talking heads talking about Arron Rodgers today and pointing out that the Packers traded up to get QB Jordan Love in the 1st round. People are suggesting this lit a fire under Rodgers and got him to put up an MVP like season as a result.

Rodgers is only 9 months younger than Ben and he looks like he's in his prime.

Maybe Ben could return to the old Big Ben we all knew if we lit a fire under him by drafting his successor in the 1st round of 2021.

Maybe Ben isn't done. Maybe he just needs motivated. And he's mentioned wanting to play as long as Brady who's said he's playing to 45+. We might have another 10 years left with Ben :)hmm...maybe. They did draft Rudolph in 2018 and Roethlisberger had one of his best seasons. Sadly, I think the effect wore off after he saw how Rudolph played in 2019. No worries there...:-(

[Steel Maniac]

Your going to be paying for him regardless next year if he plays or doesn't. But if he stays on at just 1 year, that means he is going to kill us, because we will have to cut players such as Heyward, Decastro, Pouncey, Haden or whoever to just get below the cap and fill out the mandatory rooster. I don't think we will have money to even keep Watt. ( I am just picking any high priced player) So what would you rather have a deleted roster, or a QB in decline who by the way is still playing really good.

Looks like it may be finally that time that we have to bite the bullet.

[Northern_Blitz]

Looks like it may be finally that time that we have to bite the bullet.

Sad that the end of an era is coming. If it's not next year, I think it's within the next 3.

And this is the last good chance we'll have to win a SB with Ben IMO.

[NorthCoast]

Sad that the end of an era is coming. If it's not next year, I think it's within the next 3.

And this is the last good chance we'll have to win a SB with Ben IMO.He's still a HOF QB but yea, end of an era. Post Roethlisberger, I'm actually kinda pumped by the fact that colleges seem to be cranking out more pro-ready QBs these days. Used to be maybe two or three were worthy of a first round pick. Now you have maybe a half dozen that you have to at least take a look at.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I'm waiting to see how we do in the playoffs before having an opinion either way.

I'd hope we can make another run next year somehow, and the year after, and the year after.

I'm on board with this 100%.

Do you really want to extend Ben? Do you want to cut bait and move on? How he plays over the next month will help me decide more than how he played over the last month.

[Steel Maniac]

I'm on board with this 100%.

Do you really want to extend Ben? Do you want to cut bait and move on? How he plays over the next month will help me decide more than how he played over the last month.

I"m with you; part of me is tired of Ben holding us hostage ; with a ton of options around the league available coming next season (Darnold, Winston, Stafford & Matt Ryan on the move) there could be a legit guy that falls to us in the draft or someone unexpected hitting free agency that is servicable.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

So if I understand correctly, if they max the dummy years the Steelers could be paying Roethlisberger in the mid $20M. But his decline is very worrisome and there's a good chance he won't be a starter for more than next year. And I don't see him willing to sit behind anyone.

Besides that, does he give the Steelers a better chance to win going forward? Despite throwing second most passes in the last 5 years, his yds/gm was the fewest in that time. He was tied for second in the NFL for # of passes behind the LOS, #1 in # of passes 0-10 yds. Whether this is to protect him or not, it's drastically affected the offense.

Man I just don't like paying for something with diminishing returns. I know the argument is yea but he won 12 games this year. But it is also true that the December fade is real for the last few years.
In this case, "extending" is code for "stretching out and lowering cap hit". Don't get caught up in the wording. It's not like they want to keep him longer, it's just a way to be able to field a team without a QB who has a $40-mil+ cap hit. Ultimately, it would lower dead cap on the back end, as well.

Hindsight 2020 (heh): at the beginning of the year, with a fully healthy team, they went downfield more. Remember Claypool's start? That was Ben throwing him the ball. I suspect that the short / quick passing game that showed up as the season progressed is partly due to the o-line struggles due to injuries. Heck even the run game seemed to sputter as the o-line injuries picked up.

Let's not forget that Banner won the starting RT job. Along he way, Feiler (who was a close second) was also injured. The team has also missed games from Decastro and Pouncey. I know i recall a Dotson injury, too.

Considering more of them than we'd like are unrestricted free agents (Villanueva, Banner, Feiler), I'm seeing an o-line heavy draft in 2021.

[Northern_Blitz]

In this case, "extending" is code for "stretching out and lowering cap hit". Don't get caught up in the wording. It's not like they want to keep him longer, it's just a way to be able to field a team without a QB who has a $40-mil+ cap hit. Ultimately, it would lower dead cap on the back end, as well.

Hindsight 2020 (heh): at the beginning of the year, with a fully healthy team, they went downfield more. Remember Claypool's start? That was Ben throwing him the ball. I suspect that the short / quick passing game that showed up as the season progressed is partly due to the o-line struggles due to injuries. Heck even the run game seemed to sputter as the o-line injuries picked up.

Let's not forget that Banner won the starting RT job. Along he way, Feiler (who was a close second) was also injured. The team has also missed games from Decastro and Pouncey. I know i recall a Dotson injury, too.

Considering more of them than we'd like are unrestricted free agents (Villanueva, Banner, Feiler), I'm seeing an o-line heavy draft in 2021.

It just depends if Ben is OK with that. It kind of screws him if he does want to play more than one year (and he's said that he does).

[SteelerOfDeVille]

It just depends if Ben is OK with that. It kind of screws him if he does want to play more than one year (and he's said that he does).
Except it doesn't necessarily screw him. He has yet to make less on any of these extensions. They simply convert salary to signing bonus (which is in instant payout, but can be spread over the duration of the contract).

For the player, i think we'd agree that if you sign a 1-year contract where $8mil is salary and $2mil is bonus, you make the same if it was $1 mil salary and $9mil bonus (assuming you play that year, you get $10 mil).

Now - I'm about to get all weird because, while i know cap explanations been done here before, i believe i'm about to go a step further...

The trick is when you go to multiple years and signing bonus; which is paid immediately, but with respect to the cap, signing bonus is split evenly across contract years (for example, 5 year, $50 mil means this will be $10 mil annually on your cap).

From a cap perspective, cutting someone saves Salary and Roster ("you're on roster as of") bonuses but, signing bonus which is split across years and "restructure" (which is essentially a signing bonus) stays.


For 2021, Ben has $4mil salary, $15 mil in a roster bonus. Simply cutting him would take $19 mil off his anticipated $41 mil cap.
What would the team have hit the cap? $12.5 left in signing bonus and $9.75 in "restructure", a total of $22.25 that you're going to eat whether he's there or not because it has already been paid.


The magic of all this is, you convert 2021's pay/salary to a signing bonus, allowing the team to spread that bonus across any extension years. He's due to pocket $19 mil and as long as that happens in some sort of bonus, he's good.

In my mind, he'll come out of this year's negotiating with a 1-2 year extension where he'll actually pocket a little more than the $19mil than he would have in 2021, BUT has a roster bonus or high "salary" somewhere down the road, allowing for retirement that will be gentle on cap.

Remember the current $22.25 mil in dead money is gone after 2021 - depending on Ben's performance for these playoffs, you figure whether you just want to eat it all in 2021 and suck due to insufficient cap space, or whether you - rather than "kick the can", i'll say - if you want to spread the can across a couple of seasons.

**edit: i had to stop myself. i was working on an actual contract *bwahahaha*

[Northern_Blitz]

Except it doesn't necessarily screw him. He has yet to make less on any of these extensions. They simply convert salary to signing bonus (which is in instant payout, but can be spread over the duration of the contract).

For the player, i think we'd agree that if you sign a 1-year contract where $8mil is salary and $2mil is bonus, you make the same if it was $1 mil salary and $9mil bonus (assuming you play that year, you get $10 mil).

Now - I'm about to get all weird because, while i know cap explanations been done here before, i believe i'm about to go a step further...

The trick is when you go to multiple years and signing bonus; which is paid immediately, but with respect to the cap, signing bonus is split evenly across contract years (for example, 5 year, $50 mil means this will be $10 mil annually on your cap).

From a cap perspective, cutting someone saves Salary and Roster ("you're on roster as of") bonuses but, signing bonus which is split across years and "restructure" (which is essentially a signing bonus) stays.


For 2021, Ben has $4mil salary, $15 mil in a roster bonus. Simply cutting him would take $19 mil off his anticipated $41 mil cap.
What would the team have hit the cap? $12.5 left in signing bonus and $9.75 in "restructure", a total of $22.25 that you're going to eat whether he's there or not because it has already been paid.


The magic of all this is, you convert 2021's pay/salary to a signing bonus, allowing the team to spread that bonus across any extension years. He's due to pocket $19 mil and as long as that happens in some sort of bonus, he's good.

In my mind, he'll come out of this year's negotiating with a 1-2 year extension where he'll actually pocket a little more than the $19mil than he would have in 2021, BUT has a roster bonus or high "salary" somewhere down the road, allowing for retirement that will be gentle on cap.

Remember the current $22.25 mil in dead money is gone after 2021 - depending on Ben's performance for these playoffs, you figure whether you just want to eat it all in 2021 and suck due to insufficient cap space, or whether you - rather than "kick the can", i'll say - if you want to spread the can across a couple of seasons.

**edit: i had to stop myself. i was working on an actual contract *bwahahaha*

I agree with you. But I think it all required Ben being a willing participant who only wants to play for ~ 1 more season (and doesn't want addition money beyond what he's already owed in the current contract).

My understanding of the "dummy year" scenario is that this year's roster bonus goes away and is replaced by a signing bonus and a minimum salary next season. But Ben doesn't get any "new money" next season. He has probably something like market level salaries in the following years but the expectation is that he won't play those years.

If I'm Ben and I sign an extension because I want to play multiple years, I probably want a big signing bonus and lower salaries subsequent years so that it's harder to cut me because the dead money is so big (like next year).

I think the Dummy Year strategy only works if Ben thinks he's only going to play one more year.

If he wants to play more than 1 more year, there will be a lot more money in the deal and a much bigger signing bonus (and much less cap relief next season and much more than $14M dead money in years beyond next season). In a case like this, he'd want a new extension to look like his last one (+ extra for inflation probably)

But I could be wrong...

[NorthCoast]

.......and doesn't want addition money beyond what he's already owed in the current contract).

.this is critical in my mind

[Northern_Blitz]

this is critical in my mind

And who has the leverage.

We can say do it or we cut you.

He can say add more money or I won't retire and you'll have to deal with the bad publicity of forcing me out.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I agree with you. But I think it all required Ben being a willing participant who only wants to play for ~ 1 more season (and doesn't want addition money beyond what he's already owed in the current contract).

My understanding of the "dummy year" scenario is that this year's roster bonus goes away and is replaced by a signing bonus and a minimum salary next season. But Ben doesn't get any "new money" next season. He has probably something like market level salaries in the following years but the expectation is that he won't play those years.

If I'm Ben and I sign an extension because I want to play multiple years, I probably want a big signing bonus and lower salaries subsequent years so that it's harder to cut me because the dead money is so big (like next year).

I think the Dummy Year strategy only works if Ben thinks he's only going to play one more year.

If he wants to play more than 1 more year, there will be a lot more money in the deal and a much bigger signing bonus (and much less cap relief next season and much more than $14M dead money in years beyond next season). In a case like this, he'd want a new extension to look like his last one (+ extra for inflation probably)

But I could be wrong...
this is only a problem if you disagree on how many more years you can get out of him. if you say 1 and he says 2, it's a problem - but, that's when you tell him, "we'l do this annually until you say you're ready to go next year"

[feltdizz]

We aren’t going to play hardball with Ben until his play declines significantly and we have no idea if the last 4 games are the future Ben or just another dry spell.

Ben tends to have a few rough patches during our SB years.. hopefully he turns it on and the decision to extend is an easy one.

But if he plays like trash.. oh boy. Could get interesting.

[Northern_Blitz]

this is only a problem if you disagree on how many more years you can get out of him. if you say 1 and he says 2, it's a problem - but, that's when you tell him, "we'l do this annually until you say you're ready to go next year"

I guess I just don't understand it enough to know if we can do that to a contract with dummy years at the end.

What would happen at that point? We rip up the old contract, add a signing bonus, increase the cap hit in the current year (and future years?)?

Time will tell I guess.

Here's hoping that Ben plays amazing in the next 4 games, grabs another ring, and laughs all the way to the bank on a well deserved extension.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I guess I just don't understand it enough to know if we can do that to a contract with dummy years at the end.

What would happen at that point? We rip up the old contract, add a signing bonus, increase the cap hit in the current year (and future years?)?

Time will tell I guess.

Here's hoping that Ben plays amazing in the next 4 games, grabs another ring, and laughs all the way to the bank on a well deserved extension.
same as we're doing now. you convert that year to a bonus, which means he gets paid, then push the dummy year by one year.