Mason rudolph

[KYPITTFAN]

Ok, let's talk about MR. 22/33 for 315yards 2Td and 1INT.
Deep ball was great all day. I counted 3 absolute dropped balls and 2 others that could have been caught. He made the right reads and got the ball out on time for the most part. He was only sacked once. He was supported by a running game that only gained 85 yards. He outplayed Mayfield. Difference in the game was a no call PI on the 2pt try and Chubbs 47 yard TD run.
My impression is Mason had a really good day with only one real mistake.
One other thing. If Tomlin thought it was a good idea to bring in Dobbs on short yardage situations then why not 2 yards to tie the game?

[NJ-STEELER]

missed the first half

were there a lot of short quick throws like we've seen in weeks prior to today? aside from the colts 2nd half

[steelerkeylargo]

He had a nice showing. Good for him. I feel much better if we can't draft a QB in 2021 after what I saw today. Having said that. I'm not sure he could be anything better than a lower half of the league QB

[Steelerphile]

Ok, let's talk about MR. 22/33 for 315yards 1Td and 1INT.
Deep ball was great all day. I counted 3 absolute dropped balls and 2 others that could have been caught. He made the right reads and got the ball out on time for the most part. He was only sacked once. He was supported by a running game that only gained 85 yards. He outplayed Mayfield. Difference in the game was a no call PI on the 2pt try and Chubbs 47 yard TD run.
My impression is Mason had a really good day with only one real mistake.

Absolutely. I like Mason and I think he can be a good QB. I am not totally sure he is a stud and the future of the franchise but I think he can be a bridge QB. I would not bring in Haskins or Darnold to replace Mason. I like Mason better than those guys. They may have a bit more arm strength but I still think Mason has adequate arm strength and is overall better with his reads and accuracy.

I am also dubious about bringing in a failed guy like Carson Wentz. I like the Ohio St. QB if he happens to fall. The thing I wish he had a bit more of is athleticism but I think he can be comparable to the Rams QB.

[NorthCoast]

He's still slow getting through his progressions. Against better pass rushing it will be his Achilles heel.
But, that is something that can improve with more PT.

[SteelBucks]

Rudolph can be a good backup like Charlie Batch. I’m not giving him the keys to the offense though. We still need a QB.

[Ghost]

I thought he acquitted himself nicely today. 2 TDS. A nice drive to almost tie it up. The 2pt throw was not good though. Too high.

In the game thread I asked why they don’t have a 2pt play designed for Dobbs. Seems as if that would be a no brainer.

[hawaiiansteel]

Rudolph can be a good backup like Charlie Batch. I’m not giving him the keys to the offense though. We still need a QB.

I agree...

[steeler_george]

He had a nice showing. Good for him. I feel much better if we can't draft a QB in 2021 after what I saw today. Having said that. I'm not sure he could be anything better than a lower half of the league QB

Agreed, I would skip drafting a QB if they extend Ben. (Invest in OL, RB,TE, D). Then go into 2022 drafting a QB ( franchise one) and a stop gap FA QB since both Mason and Ben will both be off the books.

[RichD]

I missed the 1qr. But what I saw from Mason has given me some hope. Wish he moved around better in the pocket and made quicker reads, but like most have said more playing time should help. If Ben plays one more year then Mason will be a FA after next season. We should be able to sign him on a cheap prove it deal.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Mason did some good things and not so good things. Kind of what's expected out of a back up. The Steelers need to develop a better run game regardless of who the QB of the future might be.

[Northern_Blitz]

He had a nice showing. Good for him. I feel much better if we can't draft a QB in 2021 after what I saw today. Having said that. I'm not sure he could be anything better than a lower half of the league QB

I think he'll get a shot at competing for the job next year (assuming we retire / cut Ben).

Keep the seat warm and we probably try to draft a longer term replacement the following year.

[SidSmythe]

Mason picked up where he left off last yr (Pre Earl Thomas hit).

He throws a good ball and his deep ball well above average.
He has some mobility ... and spreads the ball around.

My takeaway from today... Rudolph has a future....its up to him how far he takes it.

[Ernie]

I think he'll get a shot at competing for the job next year (assuming we retire / cut Ben).

Keep the seat warm and we probably try to draft a longer term replacement the following year.

I cant imagine Ben being back next year. Hes so stinking fragile... basically a player/coach at this point... you cant be a legit contender with a QB that doesnt practice through the week.

[SteelBucks]

I cant imagine Ben being back next year. Hes so stinking fragile... basically a player/coach at this point... you cant be a legit contender with a QB that doesnt practice through the week.

We’re not a legit contender with Rudolph.

[Ernie]

We’re not a legit contender with Rudolph.

Who said we were?

[SteelBucks]

Who said we were?

I’m just making a point that Rudolph doesn’t move the needle in improving this team. I think we can all agree that OL and RB are in serious need of upgrades.

[Ernie]

I’m just making a point that Rudolph doesn’t move the needle in improving this team. I think we can all agree that OL and RB are in serious need of upgrades.

Dumping Ben's 40 million a year would go a long way towards filling much needed voids. We made a mistake by extending him prior to last season.. at this point in his career.. it shouldve been 1 year at a time. He wasn't in danger of going anywhere

[SteelBucks]

Dumping Ben's 40 million a year would go a long way towards filling much needed voids. We made a mistake by extending him prior to last season.. at this point in his career.. it shouldve been 1 year at a time. He wasn't in danger of going anywhere

They could always restructure. I’d just feel uncomfortable going into next season without a QB. Maybe I have too much of the 80s and 90s memories. Always good but always lacking the major QB piece.

[Northern_Blitz]

I cant imagine Ben being back next year. Hes so stinking fragile... basically a player/coach at this point... you cant be a legit contender with a QB that doesnt practice through the week.

I also think he'll be given the 43 treatment.

I don't think we can let him play out his contract because of the cap hit.

And I don't see us extending him and committing to another ~ $75 - $100 M.

But who knows. He's certainly earned a lot of good will with the franchise for his play.

[KYPITTFAN]

Two dropped passes and one that could have been caught ended drives. Defense did not show to start also.





missed the first half

were there a lot of short quick throws like we've seen in weeks prior to today? aside from the colts 2nd half

[Northern_Blitz]

They could always restructure. I’d just feel uncomfortable going into next season without a QB. Maybe I have too much of the 80s and 90s memories. Always good but always lacking the major QB piece.

Next year is his last year, so I don't think we can restructure. We did restructure him this year to kick more cap hit into next year and make more room this year.

We can extend him and try to kick more cap down the road. But I think we'd need to extend him at least 2 and maybe 3 years. And it makes the mountain of cap hit at the end of the deal even bigger.

And it looks to me like we won't have a great team next year because we are already over what the cap should be with about 20 roster spots to fill.

I think a big rebuild starts next season.

But I also don't understand all the ways that we can move cap hits to future years.

[KYPITTFAN]

Does not only being sacked once and a good completion percentage not imply quick and good reads?






He's still slow getting through his progressions. Against better pass rushing it will be his Achilles heel.
But, that is something that can improve with more PT.

[SteelBucks]

Next year is his last year, so I don't think we can restructure. We did restructure him this year to kick more cap hit into next year and make more room this year.

We can extend him and try to kick more cap down the road. But I think we'd need to extend him at least 2 and maybe 3 years. And it makes the mountain of cap hit at the end of the deal even bigger.

And it looks to me like we won't have a great team next year because we are already over what the cap should be with about 20 roster spots to fill.

I think a big rebuild starts next season.

But I also don't understand all the ways that we can move cap hits to future years.

That’s why we have Omar Khan. I also don’t understand all the ways to move money around without tearing apart the team.

[Ernie]

Next year is his last year, so I don't think we can restructure. We did restructure him this year to kick more cap hit into next year and make more room this year.

We can extend him and try to kick more cap down the road. But I think we'd need to extend him at least 2 and maybe 3 years. And it makes the mountain of cap hit at the end of the deal even bigger.

And it looks to me like we won't have a great team next year because we are already over what the cap should be with about 20 roster spots to fill.

I think a big rebuild starts next season.

But I also don't understand all the ways that we can move cap hits to future years.

I agree that the big rebuild starts next year...and keeping Ben around takes away from that.

[NorthCoast]

Does not only being sacked once and a good completion percentage not imply quick and good reads?He wasn't under a lot of blitz pressure. But a check of the stats says he did release the ball in an avg 2.6 sec. so maybe not as slow as my perception (probably biased by Roethlisberger's game).

[NJ-STEELER]

I seriously doubt there is any sort of rebuild next year. unless they just stink it up in the playoffs.
we saw with some coaching adjustments, the offense look a lot better in the 2nd half of the colts game

this team was a #1 seed before they starting losing players to season ending injuries
watt, fitz, bush, edmonds, chase, DJ still on rookie deals.

i'll wait to see what omar can do with ben's cap hit before declaring we need a re build.

that said, if someone like trask is there in the 1st and they feel he can step in quickly. Im all for it

[Ernie]

I seriously doubt there is any sort of rebuild next year. unless they just stink it up in the playoffs.
we saw with some coaching adjustments, the offense look a lot better in the 2nd half of the colts game

this team was a #1 seed before they starting losing players to season ending injuries
watt, fitz, bush, edmonds, chase, DJ still on rookie deals.

i'll wait to see what omar can do with ben's cap hit before declaring we need a re build.

that said, if someone like trask is there in the 1st and they feel he can step in quickly. Im all for it

Unless Omar can walk on water.. theres no way hes going to be able to retain all the talent that this year's team has.. there will be several key departures in the off season.

[NJ-STEELER]

Unless Omar can walk on water.. theres no way hes going to be able to retain all the talent that this year's team has.. there will be several key departures in the off season.

pretty sure bud's gone and so is juju,
vance, vince and connor (Yaaawn) too

you want to totally rebuild this team cause we're going to lose 1 really good player on defense and an above average slot receiver in juju?
there's a 3rd round pick from last year already getting snaps in place of bud

plus, we don't even know what the cap will be. the estimate now is already higher then it was a few weeks ago.
they played during a pandemic this year, of course revenue will be down. maybe the owners and players association agree to a change in the cap next year due of it. there could be a clause in there for all we know

there are other good teams in just as bad of shape in next years cap.
the saints are actually in worse position.

let's see whats decided before freaking out

[NorthCoast]

pretty sure bud's gone and so is juju,
vance, vince and connor (Yaaawn) too

you want to totally rebuild this team cause we're going to lose 1 really good player on defense and an above average slot receiver in juju?
there's a 3rd round pick from last year already getting snaps in place of bud

plus, we don't even know what the cap will be. the estimate now is already higher then it was a few weeks ago.
they played during a pandemic this year, of course revenue will be down. maybe the owners and players association agree to a change in the cap next year due of it. there could be a clause in there for all we know

there are other good teams in just as bad of shape in next years cap.
the saints are actually in worse position.

let's see whats decided before freaking outThe defense is fine. Highsmith showing he can step into Dupree's spot. Get back key players and this defense is again top 5; draft for depth, especially ILB.
Offense on the other hand needs major work; aging QB, OL that has faded badly in the last two months, TEs that are just OK, RBs that are just OK, WRs that lack consistency (except for the one that will likely be leaving)... who's left?

[Ernie]

The "Rebuild" consists of more than just finding the money to retain key pieces.. it involves upgrading in several areas (as Northcoast has mentioned). With the right pieces (through the draft, free agency, and player development) it doesnt have to be a several year process.. the Dolphins went from "Tanking for Tua" last year... to almost making the playoffs this year with a revamped roster.

[NJ-STEELER]

The defense is fine. Highsmith showing he can step into Dupree's spot. Get back key players and this defense is again top 5; draft for depth, especially ILB.
Offense on the other hand needs major work; aging QB, OL that has faded badly in the last two months, TEs that are just OK, RBs that are just OK, WRs that lack consistency (except for the one that will likely be leaving)... who's left?

i know.
this has to be an offensive heavy draft. OL and RB in first 3 rounds

a wr core of chase, DJ, washington to start isn't exactly bad.

a better line/running game will make the passing game more effective

[NJ-STEELER]

The "Rebuild" consists of more than just finding the money to retain key pieces.. it involves upgrading in several areas (as Northcoast has mentioned). With the right pieces (through the draft, free agency, and player development) it doesnt have to be a several year process.. the Dolphins went from "Tanking for Tua" last year... to almost making the playoffs this year with a revamped roster.

perhaps retool would be a better term then rebuild in that case.
i think most would think the term rebuild means an overhaul

[KYPITTFAN]

We need Ben for one more year. Pitt needs to build offensive support for Mason or whomever is the QB after next season. We need top grade run blocking linemen and a bruising RB. That will make any QB better. I truly believe Mason (and not because of today) can be our QB and do well. Ben has made this O Line look good. They have been overrated for years.

[Steel Maniac]

Rudolph can be a good backup like Charlie Batch. I’m not giving him the keys to the offense though. We still need a QB.

He isn’t good Enough to even be a bridge qb in my book.

[hawaiiansteel]

He isn’t good Enough to even be a bridge qb in my book.

so are the Steelers going to still trade ALMOST their entire draft choices to move up for Trevor Lawrence this year?

hahahahahahahahahahaha

[feltdizz]

so are the Steelers going to still trade ALMOST their entire draft choices to move up for Trevor Lawrence this year?

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Lawrence did not impress on Saturday night.

[hawaiiansteel]

Lawrence did not impress on Saturday night.

he didn't play well in last year's national championship against LSU either.

18/37 for 234 yards with zero TDs.

[Steel Maniac]

The "Rebuild" consists of more than just finding the money to retain key pieces.. it involves upgrading in several areas (as Northcoast has mentioned). With the right pieces (through the draft, free agency, and player development) it doesnt have to be a several year process.. the Dolphins went from "Tanking for Tua" last year... to almost making the playoffs this year with a revamped roster.

I agree with you. Addressing areas of need has to be strategic.

[NorthCoast]

Can Canada turn Rudolph into a starting NFL QB?... it's the first year the QBs have had a real coach. I look at Allen in BUF and am in awe at his progression.

[Steel Maniac]

Can Canada turn Rudolph into a starting NFL QB?... it's the first year the QBs have had a real coach. I look at Allen in BUF and am in awe at his progression.

Whoever is the Bills QB coach , we need to steal him. LOL.

[Northern_Blitz]

I seriously doubt there is any sort of rebuild next year. unless they just stink it up in the playoffs.
we saw with some coaching adjustments, the offense look a lot better in the 2nd half of the colts game

this team was a #1 seed before they starting losing players to season ending injuries
watt, fitz, bush, edmonds, chase, DJ still on rookie deals.

i'll wait to see what omar can do with ben's cap hit before declaring we need a re build.

that said, if someone like trask is there in the 1st and they feel he can step in quickly. Im all for it

The rebuild won't be by choice.

Our cap situation isn't good, especially if we want to keep Ben.

[Northern_Blitz]

pretty sure bud's gone and so is juju,
vance, vince and connor (Yaaawn) too

you want to totally rebuild this team cause we're going to lose 1 really good player on defense and an above average slot receiver in juju?
there's a 3rd round pick from last year already getting snaps in place of bud

plus, we don't even know what the cap will be. the estimate now is already higher then it was a few weeks ago.
they played during a pandemic this year, of course revenue will be down. maybe the owners and players association agree to a change in the cap next year due of it. there could be a clause in there for all we know

there are other good teams in just as bad of shape in next years cap.
the saints are actually in worse position.

let's see whats decided before freaking out

I'm assuming the cap doesn't go down, but stays about the same at $200M. Maybe they have to borrow from future cap increases to do that.

I had a post about this somewhere, but were above that number with something like 30 guys under contract.

And that doesn't include the big deal that Watt has earned.

It does include Ben's $41M IIRC. And cutting / retiring him saves us $20M.

I think that's something that will happen now given his play over the last month and that keeping him means there won't be much around him.

And if I'm wrong and it's not next year, I think it's certainly in the next 3.

Doing it now means there's one year of bad cap. If we extend Ben, it's probably more than 1 year.

I'd rather rip off the bandaid. But the Rooneys might go another way.

[Northern_Blitz]

perhaps retool would be a better term then rebuild in that case.
i think most would think the term rebuild means an overhaul

If you lose your franchise QB, it a rebuild IMO.

If we keep Ben, I'm happy to think of it as retooling.

[Northern_Blitz]

We need Ben for one more year. Pitt needs to build offensive support for Mason or whomever is the QB after next season. We need top grade run blocking linemen and a bruising RB. That will make any QB better. I truly believe Mason (and not because of today) can be our QB and do well. Ben has made this O Line look good. They have been overrated for years.

I think they're is no way we let Ben play his last contract year.

Eating that cap hit means we lose too many of the players your talking about.

Take a year to rehab the cap.

If we're bad under MR or whatever cheap QB he competes with, it's good because we get a better shot at a franchise QB.

[NorthCoast]

I'm assuming the cap doesn't go down, but stays about the same at $200M. Maybe they have to borrow from future cap increases to do that.

I had a post about this somewhere, but were above that number with something like 30 guys under contract.

And that doesn't include the big deal that Watt has earned.

It does include Ben's $41M IIRC. And cutting / retiring him saves us $20M.

I think that's something that will happen now given his play over the last month and that keeping him means there won't be much around him.

And if I'm wrong and it's not next year, I think it's certainly in the next 3.

Doing it now means there's one year of bad cap. If we extend Ben, it's probably more than 1 year.

I'd rather rip off the bandaid. But the Rooneys might go another way.Roethlisberger said "I'm playing to get my OL a Superbowl"... but if those guys are cut/gone next season then there is probably little incentive for him to stick around. So the way to go about this is to release DD, Pouncey and AV. Then see what BR decides before making the decision for him.

[Northern_Blitz]

Roethlisberger said "I'm playing to get my OL a Superbowl"... but if those guys are cut/gone next season then there is probably little incentive for him to stick around. So the way to go about this is to release DD, Pouncey and AV. Then see what BR decides before making the decision for him.

I think we keep DD, but not Pouncey and AV.

We'll see how much Ben is motivated for the game checks (which are considerable, even if you already have more money than you could spend). And if the organization would actually cut him if he doesn't want to retire.

[flippy]

I hate thinking this, but I think Mason might give us a better chance to win now than Ben.

MR is a little slow on the decisions, but he doesn’t look afraid to hold the ball to go downfield. And I even think he might have more arm than Ben right now.

The best thing Mason does is his touch on his long ball. He gives WRs a chance to make a play and despite our cases of the dropsies, I think our top 4 WRs are all capable of beating defenders for balls.

If we can stretch the field a little, I think Conner can still be pretty effective both running and catching short passes.

The only thing I didn’t like yesterday was Mason getting pulled for Dobbs after a long completion. Guy makes a play then our own coaches disrupt his rhythm. Doh!!!

[Chucktownsteeler]

I hate thinking this, but I think Mason might give us a better chance to win now than Ben.

MR is a little slow on the decisions, but he doesn’t look afraid to hold the ball to go downfield. And I even think he might have more arm than Ben right now.

The best thing Mason does is his touch on his long ball. He gives WRs a chance to make a play and despite our cases of the dropsies, I think our top 4 WRs are all capable of beating defenders for balls.

If we can stretch the field a little, I think Conner can still be pretty effective both running and catching short passes.

The only thing I didn’t like yesterday was Mason getting pulled for Dobbs after a long completion. Guy makes a play then our own coaches disrupt his rhythm. Doh!!!

Flippy,

I couldn't agree more with you. Especially pully MR after the completion. It reminded of the Cowher - TZak - Kordell years.

MR throws a nice long ball. Gives the WRs a fighting chance.

[hawaiiansteel]

I think they're is no way we let Ben play his last contract year.

Eating that cap hit means we lose too many of the players your talking about.


I honestly don't believe the Rooneys would cut Ben after everything he's done for this franchise.

[feltdizz]

I honestly don't believe the Rooneys would cut Ben after everything he's done for this franchise.

Yeah.. I don’t see it happening either. I think Ben has our FO in his hip pocket until he decides to hang them up.

I could see them extending him this year if he plays well in the playoffs.

While I’m not a fan of paying big money to aging QB’s and people think I hate Ben.. I really can’t see how the FO moves on from him because he had a rough patch after an 11-0 start.

It will be frustrating when we have a few games of WTF ball when Ben takes weeks off but in the end, moving on from a QB with a 12-3 record just sounds weird.

[pittpete]

Mason picked up where he left off last yr (Pre Earl Thomas hit).

He throws a good ball and his deep ball well above average.
He has some mobility ... and spreads the ball around.

My takeaway from today... Rudolph has a future....its up to him how far he takes it.

Id definitely agree with this statement
I thought Mason looked good except for the bonehead INT and not taking the checkdown on his only sack

[Northern_Blitz]

I honestly don't believe the Rooneys would cut Ben after everything he's done for this franchise.

But we could certainly let him know that he won't play if he comes back and that he should retire.

We did something to make Troy walk away (even though it seriously hurt the relationship).

But it's possible that we go with loyalty on this one.

Letting him play out his contract is probably also a good way to tank. We'll just lost more players that way.

I wonder if he'll want to play after we cut Pouncey and he sees what the roster looks like when the QB's cap hit takes up ~40% of the cap room? Or even if we keep Pouncey and we have even less room for other players.

[pittpete]

Cutting Pouncey costs us $6,475,000 in dead $$$$
Cutting Ben costs us $22,250,000 in dead $$$$
If Ben retires wouldnt he have to give back the signing bonus for 2021?

[Ghost]

As of 12/21 - ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on Monday that 38-year-old Roethlisberger intends to fulfill the final year of his contract and return as Steelers QB in 2021. Why? Schefter says that the QB is enjoying himself too much to hang it up yet.

As I understand it - Ben has a roster bonus of $15M due in March. Retiring would save the Steelers $19M (bonus + 2021 salary of $4M) with a cap hit of $22.25 in dead money for 2021.

[Northern_Blitz]

Cutting Pouncey costs us $6,475,000 in dead $$$$
Cutting Ben costs us $22,250,000 in dead $$$$
If Ben retires wouldnt he have to give back the signing bonus for 2021?

I'm pretty sure cutting Ben (or him retiring) saves us $19M against the cap.

If he plays out his contract his cap hit is $41.25M.

You are correct that cutting him will leave a significant dead money cap hit ($22.25M)*.

If you want to calculate the cap savings, you can look at a site like the one below and subtract the "dead money" column from the "cap hit" column in the year that he gets cut.

In Ben's case, we save $19M if we cut him (or he retires). That's $41.25M - $22.25M = $19M.

I agree that the dead money sucks. But it's there because we kicked his cap hit down the line as far as we could (including a max restructure last off season that moved almost $10M from this year to next year).

Source:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/ben-roethlisberger-3595/

* I think there are some timing issues here because we'd want to cut him before the roster bonus ($15M) comes into play. I think that means that we won't be able to cut him later and spread the cap hit over 2 years.

I think this is why players / agents put big roster bonuses like this into the end of contracts. It means that cutting the player hurts the team if they don't do it early. Getting cut early give the player time to find a new team if they want so they don't get stuck taking a super cheap deal like Cam Newton.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Cutting Pouncey costs us $6,475,000 in dead $$$$
Cutting Ben costs us $22,250,000 in dead $$$$
If Ben retires wouldnt he have to give back the signing bonus for 2021?

It isn't just what it costs in dead money because the team does not pay out the money, it has already been paid out and counts against the cap whether the player plays or not. The only difference is the savings, which is typically salary, roster bonuses/workout bonuses etc.

So, Pouncey costs $6.475M bonus + $8M salary in 2021. Either way the team accounts for the bonus money, but if he is cut/traded/retired then the team saves $8M real money, cap money. If you can find a replacement in the draft, or via FA, under $8M in 2021 cap hit then you save money against the cap.

As far as Ben retiring, no, he doesn't give it back nor is there cap relief on the $22.5M prorated bonus, but there is $19M in cap relief.

[SteelerMaine83]

The organization is such that I think they may stand pat with Ben, and let him play the last year of his contract in 2021. After that, if he still wants to play, the hardball begins. If he plays next year at an acceptable level for a starting pro-QB (say as he has done this year), I think they could offer him a series of one year contracts at seriously below-average QB salary, say $10m base with performance based incentives of up to $10m more. If he makes all the bonuses, we’d win the Super Bowl with a $20m QB. Hmmmm.

That cap hit for 2021 means we will have to cut $20-25m to meet the cap, cut another $5m to pay the rookie pool, and that is before we even entertain keeping some of our FA or adding others. Cutting Haden (age and performance vs. Nelson) saves $7m; cutting Pouncey (to help make Ben consider retirement) saves $8m; cutting MacDonald saves $5.2m; and giving TJ a 8 yr, $176m contract with a signing bonus of $40m and a first year salary of $1m saves $4m more. That’s $24.2m to get to cap compliance. Also means that C, CB will be added to our other pressing needs such as OT, RB, etc. Grim off-season it will be.

Let’s make this year count.

[SteelerMaine83]

Also, as a follow up, Mason showed me yesterday that he is an okay backup for us. As I said, Ben plays out his contract in 2021, let’s assume retires, we wheel and deal in this years draft to move off our 1st to get a 2nd and 3rd, add two OL from the deep draft, Jamie Newman as a dual threat QB, and a CB with our four top 100 picks.
That way, Newman sits a year, we give Mason a $5m one year deal (with incentive bonuses to add some of he starts/performs to get to $10m total) and they compete for a starting job. That way, you pay $6-11m for your starting QB with an open competition. If neither works out, you’ll be drafting a QB high in 2023 (the 2022 QB class looks lean right now).

[NJ-STEELER]

The organization is such that I think they may stand pat with Ben, and let him play the last year of his contract in 2021. After that, if he still wants to play, the hardball begins. If he plays next year at an acceptable level for a starting pro-QB (say as he has done this year), I think they could offer him a series of one year contracts at seriously below-average QB salary, say $10m base with performance based incentives of up to $10m more. If he makes all the bonuses, we’d win the Super Bowl with a $20m QB. Hmmmm.

That cap hit for 2021 means we will have to cut $20-25m to meet the cap, cut another $5m to pay the rookie pool, and that is before we even entertain keeping some of our FA or adding others. Cutting Haden (age and performance vs. Nelson) saves $7m; cutting Pouncey (to help make Ben consider retirement) saves $8m; cutting MacDonald saves $5.2m; and giving TJ a 8 yr, $176m contract with a signing bonus of $40m and a first year salary of $1m saves $4m more. That’s $24.2m to get to cap compliance. Also means that C, CB will be added to our other pressing needs such as OT, RB, etc. Grim off-season it will be.

Let’s make this year count.
thx for that.

this is why I say let’s wait until we hear what the cap actually is.

Then we can see what Omar can come up with. I don’t know what he can or cannot do with the cap figures, but if there’s a way, I’m think he’ll find it

[SteelerMaine83]

thx for that.

this is why I say let’s wait until we hear what the cap actually is.

Then we can see what Omar can come up with. I don’t know what he can or cannot do with the cap figures, but if there’s a way, I’m think he’ll find it

I would worry that finding a way to make it work would continue kicking the can down the road, giving extensions to guys that probably shouldn’t be in your future plans.

I would give an extension to Nelson to save some cap room. He’s still young, and after a slow start has been our best CB the second half of the season. I hate cutting Haden, as he is a team guy that still makes some key plays for us, but his age and salary just don’t justify keeping him over Nelson.

Who do we extend other than Nelson? DeCastro? Vince? Ebron? I don’t see it.

[NJ-STEELER]

I would worry that finding a way to make it work would continue kicking the can down the road, giving extensions to guys that probably shouldn’t be in your future plans.

I would give an extension to Nelson to save some cap room. He’s still young, and after a slow start has been our best CB the second half of the season. I hate cutting Haden, as he is a team guy that still makes some key plays for us, but his age and salary just don’t justify keeping him over Nelson.

Who do we extend other than Nelson? DeCastro? Vince? Ebron? I don’t see it.

Haden is the one guy I wouldn’t want to cut either.
vince and Vance would be fine with me. AV another and maybe one of DD/pouncey

im def don’t know the intricacies of extending contracts and making cap room. Or if something like this is even allowed.

but for example , a $50M two yr extension where u take the due roster bonus in March ( 15m) and convert it to signing bonus.
then take the annual salary (4m) for next yr and convert that to signing bonus as well. Say your left with 1m annual salary for next year.
now ur spreading 18m of next years salary cap into 3 years

takes 12m off of next years cap and spreads it to the last two yrs of the contract extension ( 6 & 6)

then you have 32m to pay out in the 2 years left

16+6 in 2023 and 2024. For a 22m cap hot in 2022 & 2023
with a dead cap space of 6m if cut after 2021 season

Again, not sure if this is even allowed but if is it doesn’t sound totally impossible

[NJ-STEELER]

Actually I think the signing bonus would have to be more because I’m taking salary from the old contract.

it’s definitely confusing.

[SteelerMaine83]

Actually I think the signing bonus would have to be more because I’m taking salary from the old contract.

it’s definitely confusing.

It is confusing. Any extension (you can’t restructure a contract that has one year left—you either pay that amount or cut them and eat the dead money) will require proration of all the bonus money. I read somewhere that the maximum we could save in extending Ben two more years is $14m this year, but then you kick the can down the road again. You will need to pay somewhere, but the cap room will get better when we get to post-pandemic football and economics.

BTW, can’t cut AV, he’s a FA (hence the desperate need to draft an LT). Vince probably doesn’t make as much sense because all your ILBs besides Bush are FA (okay, Gilbert isn’t but he can’t stay healthy and has back issues two years running) and his cap savings if cut isn’t all that big. He’s also an emotional leader of the D and he’s a really solid run/pass rush ILB. Just don’t ask him to cover (Bush will be back). No great options except hitting multiple home runs in the draft.

[hawaiiansteel]

Rudolph Better Than Expected: A Look At The Advanced Metrics


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/rudolph-better-than-expected-a-look-at-the-advanced-metrics/

[NorthCoast]

Roethlisberger's contract is just a bit ahead of others and the timing stinks because of covid reductions. Rodgers in 2022 will cost ~$40M against the cap. Wilson $37M. Brady always seems to take less than the going rate.

[NorthCoast]

Rudolph Better Than Expected: A Look At The Advanced Metrics


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/rudolph-better-than-expected-a-look-at-the-advanced-metrics/I'm not downplaying what Rudolph did last week but we need to temper things with the fact that CLE defense is ranked 22nd in passer rating against with a QB avg 95.9. Rudolph's rating for the game was 89.2 which is his fifth best game in the last two seasons. Add to this the fact they were missing their best DB in Ward.

[Northern_Blitz]

Rudolph Better Than Expected: A Look At The Advanced Metrics


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/rudolph-better-than-expected-a-look-at-the-advanced-metrics/

Thanks for this.

One of the things I usually forget / repress / overlook is that Rudolph didn't get to play with many good skill players last year.

He wasn't good, but he didn't have many good pieces around him either.

Hopefully yesterday is a better representation of who he is in case we need him to play sometime.

[Shawn]

He had a nice showing. Good for him. I feel much better if we can't draft a QB in 2021 after what I saw today. Having said that. I'm not sure he could be anything better than a lower half of the league QB I must completely agree.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

i suspect that his showing means the team doesn't take a 1st round QB unless a stud just falls.

[feltdizz]

I would worry that finding a way to make it work would continue kicking the can down the road, giving extensions to guys that probably shouldn’t be in your future plans.

I would give an extension to Nelson to save some cap room. He’s still young, and after a slow start has been our best CB the second half of the season. I hate cutting Haden, as he is a team guy that still makes some key plays for us, but his age and salary just don’t justify keeping him over Nelson.

Who do we extend other than Nelson? DeCastro? Vince? Ebron? I don’t see it.

I would extend Haden, DD, Vince and Ebron.

Not sure why some people don’t like Ebron. He’s strictly a passing weapon but he’s been solid in that role. A few drops but thats expected given his history.

Vance can go, he’s too expensive for what he provides... that stiff arm was lovely but it was a long time ago.

[feltdizz]

I'm not downplaying what Rudolph did last week but we need to temper things with the fact that CLE defense is ranked 22nd in passer rating against with a QB avg 95.9. Rudolph's rating for the game was 89.2 which is his fifth best game in the last two seasons. Add to this the fact they were missing their best DB in Ward.

and we didn’t play all our starters on offense. Browns were desperately
needing a win too.

Rudolph played extremely well. I’ve seen better QB’s play worse against that Browns defense.

[Steel Maniac]

thx for that.

this is why I say let’s wait until we hear what the cap actually is.

Then we can see what Omar can come up with. I don’t know what he can or cannot do with the cap figures, but if there’s a way, I’m think he’ll find it

Yeah.. can’t plan accurately until we get a real cap figure and not speculation.

[NorthCoast]

Interesting discussion on another message board. Some believe the transition to Rudolph began with the hiring of Canada. He is a big proponent of RPO and Rudolph was supposedly good at that (haven't fact checked that). They certainly didn't bring Canada's concepts in for Roethlisberger so the point has some validity.

[Oviedo]

Interesting discussion on another message board. Some believe the transition to Rudolph began with the hiring of Canada. He is a big proponent of RPO and Rudolph was supposedly good at that (haven't fact checked that). They certainly didn't bring Canada's concepts in for Roethlisberger so the point has some validity.

That is what I said when Canada was hired. He wasn't here for Ben...he is here for MR and to be in place to take over as OC. If they can't solve the cap hit issue with Ben that will be in 2021

[Northern_Blitz]

Interesting discussion on another message board. Some believe the transition to Rudolph began with the hiring of Canada. He is a big proponent of RPO and Rudolph was supposedly good at that (haven't fact checked that). They certainly didn't bring Canada's concepts in for Roethlisberger so the point has some validity.

FWIW: in his pregame presser, Mason specifically called out how having a QB coach really helped him this year. It was idiotic not to have a QB coach last season IMO.

There's no reason not to get an edge by spending money that doesn't count against the cap.

[NorthCoast]

That is what I said when Canada was hired. He wasn't here for Ben...he is here for MR and to be in place to take over as OC. If they can't solve the cap hit issue with Ben that will be in 2021Well Ovi, I owe you a couple of these...:Clap:Clap

[hawaiiansteel]

Watch: How Good Was Mason Rudolph Sunday?


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/watch-how-good-was-mason-rudolph-sunday/

[NorthCoast]

Watch: How Good Was Mason Rudolph Sunday?


https://steelersdepot.com/2021/01/watch-how-good-was-mason-rudolph-sunday/Man, AV looked so stiff blocking on that TD to Claypool. And DD, smh... we need a better OL!

[SteelerMaine83]

Interesting discussion on another message board. Some believe the transition to Rudolph began with the hiring of Canada. He is a big proponent of RPO and Rudolph was supposedly good at that (haven't fact checked that). They certainly didn't bring Canada's concepts in for Roethlisberger so the point has some validity.

Not going to argue with your point here, because that very well may be the case. However, I do have a hard time imagining MR being an RPO type at the pro-level. I mean, doesn’t that require a QB that can at least scare the D a little with their running ability? (At least Dobbs can do that).

[NorthCoast]

Not going to argue with your point here, because that very well may be the case. However, I do have a hard time imagining MR being an RPO type at the pro-level. I mean, doesn’t that require a QB that can at least scare the D a little with their running ability? (At least Dobbs can do that).That's valid. I was surprised that someone mentioned he did it college. Even that seems strange. Not sure if it is true.

[NorthCoast]

Not sure who the author is but a good read on what Rudolph is at QB...maybe Canada can do something with him?:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/mason-rudolph-pittsburgh-steelers-oklahoma-state-cowboys-contextualized-quarterbacking-2018-nfl-draft

REVISITING MASON RUDOLPH: CONTEXTUALIZED QUARTERBACKING
BY: BENJAMIN SOLAK SEPTEMBER 18TH, 2019 THE DRAFT NETWORK

Photo: © Charles LeClaire-USA TODAY Sports
Did you know that Ben Roethlisberger has never started less than 11 games in a season? I didn't. For a guy that's injured all the time, he sure plays a lot.

In this, his age 37 season, Roethlisberger will lose the majority of a season to injury for the first time in his career, and the Steelers will get a long look at the young quarterback they drafted for just a misfortune: Oklahoma State alum Mason Rudolph. A less-heralded member of the storied 2018 quarterback class, Rudolph was subject to my Contextualized Quarterbacking charting, and was one of the more interesting data studies I had. Here, I review what the CQ told us about Rudolph's pro projection, and how we should expect the Steeler offense to cater to his strengths and maximize his potential success.

The 2018 (and 2019) Contextualized Quarterbacking portfolios can both be found here.


WHAT RUDOLPH IS
A spread quarterback

When you hear "spread quarterback," what do you think of? A quarterback who can tuck and run? Exclusively shotgun alignments? An offense rife with bubble screens and nine balls?

To that I'd say: not necessarily, yeah, and no. Spread quarterbacks can and often do run, as their mobility adds to the threat of the horizontal stretch that all spread offenses attempt to impose on the defense. Spread systems are run almost exclusively from the shotgun -- or at the very least, the pistol -- to facilitate those quick passes to the boundary, as well as the zone read running game.

But spread offenses don't need rely on the quick game or the short game -- they just need to use it enough to force the defense to respect it, and accordingly achieve that horizontal stretch. The spread offense quite literally spreads you out, and in doing so, creates space to attack at all depths of the field.

Mike Gundy and Mason Rudolph? They attacked intermediate, and they attacked deep. No quarterback in the class had a greater percentage of his throws go into the intermediate area of the field (10-19 yard target depth), and Rudolph was Top-4 in target depth beyond 20 yards. The RPO game that Gundy ran with Rudolph looked to get receivers like current Steeler James Washington into the third level, not the second; isolate him against safeties and off-cover corners. Rudolph worked both outside and between the numbers on these long-riding RPO looks, these 3-step drops from the gun -- but that bread and butter was found 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
So you might see Rudolph's frame, immobility, and penchant to go deep and think he isn't a spread player; he is.

Comfortable around tight windows

You might also errantly think that spread quarterbacks -- of which we've established Rudolph is one -- enjoy massive throwing lanes that other quarterbacks don't in their respective systems. This is hogwash of the highest degree. There isn't an offensive philosophy in the world that doesn't want to create wide open lanes for its quarterback and receivers in the passing game -- those are notoriously easier to throw through than tight windows. The spread system accomplishes this via the horizontal spread, but that can look a lot of different ways

For Rudolph, that looks like a ton of quick-developing, quick closing windows between layers of the defense. Rudolph wasn't throwing slant routes as they uncovered right in front of his nose. He was dropping layered balls over linebackers and in front of safeties, squeezing deep comebacks between closing corners and the immovable sideline. Oklahoma State's system helped him other ways -- ensuring he got one-on-one looks, keeping him in the pocket -- but it trusted him to throw it into tight windows. Nobody attempted more tight window passes than Rudolph did, who threw into a tight window on 28% of his passes -- that's 7% more than the next drafted quarterback (Baker Mayfield) from the 2018 class.

That number isn't all scheme. Rudolph plays with a ton of trust in both his arm and his receivers -- and some of that trust is misplaced, as Rudolph also had the second-highest number of his passes thrown to interceptable locations among drafted QBs. Only Buffalo's Josh Allen was higher. So while Rudolph was trusted with tight window throws, he also created them, with some aggressive decisions and slow processing on rapidly-closing windows.

Which brings us into the things that Rudolph is decidedly not.

[NorthCoast]

Part II:

WHAT RUDOLPH ISN'T
Pinpoint accurate

The Contextualized Quarterbacking portfolio understand ball location on each individual throw in two separate ways: accuracy and placement. Accuracy is unaware of any situational context besides the location of the receiver and the ball: it is interested in whether or not a ball is catchable, and that's all. Placement, on the other hand, considers the context of each individual throw, taking into account defender location, player momentum, down and distance, game situation, and field position. It is more specific than accuracy.

Put another way, quarterbacks with good accuracy give their wide receivers a chance to make a play, and quarterbacks with good placement put their receivers in a spot where they can make a play. Rudolph is an accurate quarterback, but he isn't a placement quarterback -- the difference between his accuracy and placement scores is almost double that of a Lamar Jackson or Josh Rosen, two of the CQ's favorite passers.

This is not nearly a death knoll. His delta is roughly comparable to that of Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Josh Allen. But what is concerning with Rudolph is the degree to which that drop-off, from general accuracy to pinpoint accuracy, expresses itself under messy contexts. When throwing "Beyond First Read" or "Under Pressure", Rudolph is able to get a catchable ball in play, but he's below his peers in terms of ball placement.

The only context under which Rudolph retains his unimpeded level of ball placement is, interestingly enough, that "Into Tight Window" context. That's where he's experienced and comfortable, which is good news for the Steelers.

Afraid

Rudolph don't give a hoot, man -- and I love that. I love that from a player without top-flight arm strength or escapability. Only 5% of Rudolph's throws came outside of the pocket, on my charting, yet he's out there playing like a gunslinger regardless. That mentality and approach isn't reserved for the physically exceptional.

Rudolph not only attacks tight window at a high clip, throws a high degree of interceptable balls -- he also was the most effective 3rd down quarterback among his peers in 2018, and only lost out to Lamar Jackson in 3rd and 5+ to go situations. Unlike many of the other quarterbacks who graded strong on the money down, such as Jackson and Mayfield, Rudolph rarely broke for a scramble (2.7% of his dropbacks) -- so this was almost entirely due to his arm.

Rudolph was willing to push the ball beyond the sticks and -- you'll notice a theme here -- give his receivers a chance to make a play. Sometimes, it was a pure arm punt that James Washington made look good on the stat sheet. But that's okay! Because Rudolph once again has Washington, and as a second-year player in his first career start, likely won't struggle with the typical young mistake of playing timid, balking at the teeth of the NFL defense, refusing to throw into coverage. Sure, he's going to make mistakes -- but he's also going to give your playmakers an opportunity to do just that: make plays.

WHAT RUDOLPH CAN DELIVER
In the summary section of the Contextualized Quarterbacking profile on Rudolph, here's what I wrote:

Mason Rudolph presents an interesting evaluation and a tough riddle. He throws a very catchable football, but his ball placement is over-estimated, likely due to the wide-open nature of his offense. Well-built, Rudolph has a strong arm that can reach 60+ yards down the field, and his greatest strength is his downfield accuracy and placement—but again, one wonders the extent to which scheme/WRs assisted with those numbers. Surprising, perhaps, are Rudolph’s numbers beyond his first read, outside of the pocket, and even throwing into tight windows—there are signs of promise in all three, which indicate that Rudolph could indeed grow beyond his scheme. Rudolph’s struggles with ball placement, zip, and off-platform launches limit him as a creative passer, but he certainly has fringe starting potential in a vertical-based offense with a strong offensive line...Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Pittsburgh all could make sense. Any team, regardless of scheme, should see top-tier backup potential in Rudolph as well.
In that I liked Rudolph as a solid backup with fringe starting ability when he declared, and he has thrown 19 NFL passes between then and now, I remain unchanged in my opinion on Rudolph. Now, fringe starter ability is bad news for the team who rosters you: just ask Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Nick Foles how their careers are going. You might make money and worm your way into a starting gig or two, but you bounce around a lot, and can never seem to clear the hill.

Is that the future for Rudolph? Perhaps, but for now, the Steelers are oriented on the short-term, with a bold Minkah Fitzpatrick trade despite starting the season 0-2 and losing Roethlisberger to injury. They'll need to get Rudolph to the upper limit of his NFL projection, fast -- and that means letting him live and die on his roller-coaster. Rudolph must be trusted to make deep throws, even as he characteristically shorts them, and receivers like Washington, Donte Moncrief, Vance McDonald, and JuJu Smith-Schuster need to deliver with wins in contested situations. The middle of the field should be opened with seams and Bang-8 posts -- I like McDonald for that a lot -- and third-level RPO concepts must be incorporated to give Rudolph the time and space he needs to function.

The offense will move in fits and starts, relying on chunk plays and low-percentage, high-return throws. It may not be tenable long-term, but that's a different topic we'll be sure to tackle as we transition into the 2020 Draft season. For now, the Steelers are tied to Rudolph, and Rudolph requires a certain environment to thrive. But thrive he can, if you get it just right,

[Eich]

Photo: © Charles LeClaire-USA TODAY Sports
Did you know that Ben Roethlisberger has never started less than 11 games in a season? I didn't. For a guy that's injured all the time, he sure plays a lot.


Interesting article but it starts off immediately incorrect. Ben didn't start 11 games last season. And prior to that, it was no less than 12 games in a season from what I see.

Edit: I see the article was written in 2019. So he Jinxed Ben!

[SteelerMaine83]

Part II:

WHAT RUDOLPH ISN'T
Pinpoint accurate

The Contextualized Quarterbacking portfolio understand ball location on each individual throw in two separate ways: accuracy and placement. Accuracy is unaware of any situational context besides the location of the receiver and the ball: it is interested in whether or not a ball is catchable, and that's all. Placement, on the other hand, considers the context of each individual throw, taking into account defender location, player momentum, down and distance, game situation, and field position. It is more specific than accuracy.

Put another way, quarterbacks with good accuracy give their wide receivers a chance to make a play, and quarterbacks with good placement put their receivers in a spot where they can make a play. Rudolph is an accurate quarterback, but he isn't a placement quarterback -- the difference between his accuracy and placement scores is almost double that of a Lamar Jackson or Josh Rosen, two of the CQ's favorite passers.

This is not nearly a death knoll. His delta is roughly comparable to that of Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Josh Allen. But what is concerning with Rudolph is the degree to which that drop-off, from general accuracy to pinpoint accuracy, expresses itself under messy contexts. When throwing "Beyond First Read" or "Under Pressure", Rudolph is able to get a catchable ball in play, but he's below his peers in terms of ball placement.

The only context under which Rudolph retains his unimpeded level of ball placement is, interestingly enough, that "Into Tight Window" context. That's where he's experienced and comfortable, which is good news for the Steelers.

Afraid

Rudolph don't give a hoot, man -- and I love that. I love that from a player without top-flight arm strength or escapability. Only 5% of Rudolph's throws came outside of the pocket, on my charting, yet he's out there playing like a gunslinger regardless. That mentality and approach isn't reserved for the physically exceptional.

Rudolph not only attacks tight window at a high clip, throws a high degree of interceptable balls -- he also was the most effective 3rd down quarterback among his peers in 2018, and only lost out to Lamar Jackson in 3rd and 5+ to go situations. Unlike many of the other quarterbacks who graded strong on the money down, such as Jackson and Mayfield, Rudolph rarely broke for a scramble (2.7% of his dropbacks) -- so this was almost entirely due to his arm.

Rudolph was willing to push the ball beyond the sticks and -- you'll notice a theme here -- give his receivers a chance to make a play. Sometimes, it was a pure arm punt that James Washington made look good on the stat sheet. But that's okay! Because Rudolph once again has Washington, and as a second-year player in his first career start, likely won't struggle with the typical young mistake of playing timid, balking at the teeth of the NFL defense, refusing to throw into coverage. Sure, he's going to make mistakes -- but he's also going to give your playmakers an opportunity to do just that: make plays.

WHAT RUDOLPH CAN DELIVER
In the summary section of the Contextualized Quarterbacking profile on Rudolph, here's what I wrote:

Mason Rudolph presents an interesting evaluation and a tough riddle. He throws a very catchable football, but his ball placement is over-estimated, likely due to the wide-open nature of his offense. Well-built, Rudolph has a strong arm that can reach 60+ yards down the field, and his greatest strength is his downfield accuracy and placement—but again, one wonders the extent to which scheme/WRs assisted with those numbers. Surprising, perhaps, are Rudolph’s numbers beyond his first read, outside of the pocket, and even throwing into tight windows—there are signs of promise in all three, which indicate that Rudolph could indeed grow beyond his scheme. Rudolph’s struggles with ball placement, zip, and off-platform launches limit him as a creative passer, but he certainly has fringe starting potential in a vertical-based offense with a strong offensive line...Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Pittsburgh all could make sense. Any team, regardless of scheme, should see top-tier backup potential in Rudolph as well.
In that I liked Rudolph as a solid backup with fringe starting ability when he declared, and he has thrown 19 NFL passes between then and now, I remain unchanged in my opinion on Rudolph. Now, fringe starter ability is bad news for the team who rosters you: just ask Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Nick Foles how their careers are going. You might make money and worm your way into a starting gig or two, but you bounce around a lot, and can never seem to clear the hill.

Is that the future for Rudolph? Perhaps, but for now, the Steelers are oriented on the short-term, with a bold Minkah Fitzpatrick trade despite starting the season 0-2 and losing Roethlisberger to injury. They'll need to get Rudolph to the upper limit of his NFL projection, fast -- and that means letting him live and die on his roller-coaster. Rudolph must be trusted to make deep throws, even as he characteristically shorts them, and receivers like Washington, Donte Moncrief, Vance McDonald, and JuJu Smith-Schuster need to deliver with wins in contested situations. The middle of the field should be opened with seams and Bang-8 posts -- I like McDonald for that a lot -- and third-level RPO concepts must be incorporated to give Rudolph the time and space he needs to function.

The offense will move in fits and starts, relying on chunk plays and low-percentage, high-return throws. It may not be tenable long-term, but that's a different topic we'll be sure to tackle as we transition into the 2020 Draft season. For now, the Steelers are tied to Rudolph, and Rudolph requires a certain environment to thrive. But thrive he can, if you get it just right,

Nice read, thanks for sharing.

My bottom line evaluation of MR is that he is not a Super Bowl caliber QB, even if coached up and gained experience. He is a solid backup and I don’t mind him in that role.

[NorthCoast]

Nice read, thanks for sharing.

My bottom line evaluation of MR is that he is not a Super Bowl caliber QB, even if coached up and gained experience. He is a solid backup and I don’t mind him in that role.One thing is clear reading the description; he's the anti-Roethlisberger (at least the current version of Roethlisberger). I think that is one reason why Rudolph was successful against the Browns. They weren't expecting the intermediate and deep throws, which by the way Roethlisberger is 20th or worse in completions among starting QBs this season.

[feltdizz]

That's valid. I was surprised that someone mentioned he did it college. Even that seems strange. Not sure if it is true.

He was in shotgun 99% at OSU

pretty sure it was mostly handing off or passing.. I don’t think I ever seen him running that much but its because I only watched a few games vs PITT and it was bombs away all day vs their secondary.

[flippy]

Nice read, thanks for sharing.

My bottom line evaluation of MR is that he is not a Super Bowl caliber QB, even if coached up and gained experience. He is a solid backup and I don’t mind him in that role.

I had been thinking the same thing and I’m not a huge Mason fan, but I also think he could work and improve and the jury is still out.

He doesn’t have the best arm, he can’t move, and he’s not really accurate which all seem bad, but he throws a nice intermediate and long ball that WRs can make plays on and with the talent and upside of the WRs we have, these guys may be able to make it work with Mason.

Let’s strengthen the D and improve the Oline to take some pressure off Mason and he just might be good enough. The thing I do like about him is he is fearless in the pocket. He will stand in there to make a play. If coaching could help him make decisions quickly a la Tommy Maddox or he could gain the confidence and most of a Duck Hodges, I think he can be good enough. It might just be time and reps and there’s no reason he can’t have the upside of a Neil ODonnel and get us to a SuperBowl.

He’s by no means perfect and probably would be one of the bottom tier of starters, but if he works at it, I think we could get more out of him than any of us realize. His game last week was a huge improvement.

[NorthCoast]

He's compared to Fitzpatrick. Might not be a franchise QB, but with the Steelers defense you could win a SB with a Fitzpatrick.

[SteelerMaine83]

He's compared to Fitzpatrick. Might not be a franchise QB, but with the Steelers defense you could win a SB with a Fitzpatrick.

Yeah, I can’t compare him to Fitzmagic yet. Fitzmagic can win (or lose) games on his own. Fitzmagic can throw receivers open, establish timing routes, etc; he’s been the best backup (and often temp starter) in the league for the past ten years.

That said, as much as I love Fitzmagic as a player and (from what I’ve seen) as a person, I am hesitant to say with a good D and him you can win a Super Bowl. To win a SB your QB needs to not play a bad game in 3-4 games, according to your seed. Fitzmagic has always had a hard time putting that many good games together, and his bad games are lose it by himself atrocious.

Not a knock on him, but my experience of being a long time football fanatic is that there have been so many really fun to watch and good (but not great) QBs that can lead you to the playoffs but not to the SB. Every team in the playoffs is good, and a QB having a crap day usually sends you home.

I like MR as a solid backup, but we won’t win a SB with him, even if he becomes a capable starter (I hope I gladly eat these words).