Salary Cap for next year?

[Northern_Blitz]

We've had a lot of talk about what we can do next year and who we might be able to bring in or whatever.

So I thought I'd look at this a bit and see what we can see.

UFA Info:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/pittsburgh-steelers/
Current 2021 Cap info:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/2021/

We currently have 33 players under contract for 2021 with a cap hit of ~ $201M (close to what the actual cap is this year, but way above the $175M floor for next season).

We also have 28 UFAs, many of whom are contributors: e.g. Bud ($16.6M), JuJu ($15.5M), AV, Hilton, Sutton ($7.2M), Conner (5.6M), Spillane and Williamson. I don't know their methodology, but I've included the spotrack's predicted market value for players where it's available (number in brackets). Surprised they don't have a number for Hilton, but I think he's more valuable than Sutton.

Even if we didn't resign any UFAs, we'd need to make some serious changes because bringing in 20 league minimum guys to get to a 53 man roster would cost us $12.2M.

If we assume that the cap stays the same (and doesn't dip to the floor), that would put is about $12.3M over the cap (just with min salary guys at ~ 600k/year). Worst case would be that it dips to $175M and we're >$37M over in that case. The team is clearly pretty bad if we replace contributors with mins everywhere.

Here are the guys who represent the biggest cap savings if cut. Remember that cutting them means they have to be replaced too. Note, I got cap savings as cap hit - dead cap, which I think is correct. I am also totally neglecting restructures and / or extensions because I don't really get how they work. I think restructures / extensions are more likely for middle aged guys with more time remaining on their contracts.



Player
Cap Savings
Do I think it will Happen


Ben
$19M
Didn't think so a month ago, now I say yes.


Hayden
$12.6M
Probably. Still good, but for how long. We won't be good next year anyway IMO


Decastro
$8.75M
I think we do something with him. Need to keep some OL and he should be good. Is he hurt?


Nelson
$8.25M
Would like to keep the younger of our starting corners if possible. I think maybe extension?


Pouncey
$8M
Need a new center IMO


Ebron
$6M
OK letting go, maybe want to keep one of the TEs though? Or go bargain hunting.


Tuitt
$5.7M
Keep if possible


Vance
$5.2M
OK letting go, maybe want to keep one of the TEs though? Or go bargain hunting.


Vince
$4M
Can we keep at low cost? Or maybe resign Spillane / Williamson for cheap? Listing as cut here.


Edmunds
$2M
Not an impact guy, but OK and savings isn't huge. Keep


D. Watt
$1.7M
Doesn't see much time, has been out a lot. Do we get a family discount? Cut.


Boswell
$1.4M
Keep


Washington
$1M
Keep



After that it's a bunch of other $1M or less savings, which don't make sense unless the player is really bad (since min is $600k).

I think the guts I have here are Ben, Haden, Pouncey, Ebron, Vance, Vince, and Derek Watt. That saves us ~ $58M (gets us down to $143M), but puts us at 26 players.

So we'd need to pick up 27 more guys to get a roster using $32M - $57M ($175M cap vs. $200M cap).

I think that's more aggressive than the Steelers will be, but who knows.

Notes: gold numbers were updated after TO pointed out a mistake. I'm still not sure about the Haden cap hit.

[Northern_Blitz]

From the UFA list, the guys I'd want are:
- Bud ($16.6)
- Juju ($15.5)
- Hilton ($9M?) want to keep at slot. Needed to guess a number on my own here. Random guess at something higher than Sutton.
- Sutton (7.2M)
- One of Spillane or Williamson or some other cheap ILB. Let's say $5M? Ideally we'd feel confident in UG3 here, but I don't think we do.

If those numbers are correct, it gets us to 32 players and a cap hit of $196.3M. We still would need 21 guys, including big money positions like LT (although Okorafor is actually listed as LT) and QB.

It also doesn't include the truck load of money we'll pay to Watt next season (I think it's next season), but maybe we can structure that so that the 1st year cap hit isn't crazy?

My guess is that we can't keep Bud or* JuJu here? Probably can't do Hilton and Sutton either?

Let's say that we don't keep Bud or JuJu and we bring back Sutton (I think that would get us to $155M for 29 guys...leaving $20 - $45M to sign 24 players)*.

What would the guys under contract look like (in no particular order)? Let me know if I forgot a position.

Depth chart:
QB: Mason
WR: Washington, Johnson, Claypool
TE: Gentry,
RB: Snell, McFarland, Samuels
FB: < >
LT: Okorafor
G: DeCastro, Dotson
C: < >
RT: < >

FS: Fitzpatrick
SS: Edmunds
CB: Nelson, Sutton, Layne, Pierre
OLB: Watt, Highsmith
ILB: Bush, UGIII, Spillane
DT: Buggs
DE: Heyward, Tuitt, Davis

LS: Canaday
K: Boswell
P:

Needs lots of OL. 2 QBs. 2 TEs, preferably 1 can start. WRs. Backup S. Back LBs. A DT (can we bring back TA on the cheap?). P.

Probably more stuff too.

Stuff in gold is updated after TO pointed out the math errors.

I also guess that all players would be required to take a pay cut if they do lower the cap to $175 so the UFA's don't shoulder all the pain. If so, we'd be closer to the higher number plus whatever we can free up from restructures, less whatever cap hit Watt gets.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Hey North, was just looking at this very thing. I had many of the same ideas for cuts. A couple of errors with the numbers though:

Haden is a $7M savings and your total savings are not $88M, closer to $50M. As far as the cap savings calculations go, you are correct. Another way to determine is by just adding up the base salary plus any bonuses that would be single season due this year, such as roster bonus, for guys who are going into the last year in 2021.

I am waiting to see how the season ends, but if what we have seen the last month is reflective of how the season ends then I agree that we talk to Ben about retiring and then clean house. I would add DD to your list, but not necessarily VW or Watt. Vince saves $4M as a starter and Watt might actually be used by the hopefully new OC. This house cleaning should allow you to re-sign FAs you might want to keep, allowing them to be football decisions, not strictly financial.

Chances are that the 2021 season would be a throwaway and a high first round pick to follow for your next franchise QB. 2021 draft should concentrate on OL, TE, replacement CB for Haden, and only if someone you love falls QB.

Remember though, I would only do this if this awful slide continues, and the Steelers are done in one.


We've had a lot of talk about what we can do next year and who we might be able to bring in or whatever.

So I thought I'd look at this a bit and see what we can see.

UFA Info:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/pittsburgh-steelers/
Current 2021 Cap info:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/2021/

We currently have 33 players under contract for 2021 with a cap hit of ~ $201M (close to what the actual cap is this year, but way above the $175M floor for next season).

We also have 28 UFAs, many of whom are contributors: e.g. Bud ($16.6M), JuJu ($15.5M), AV, Hilton, Sutton ($7.2M), Conner (5.6M), Spillane and Williamson. I don't know their methodology, but I've included the spotrack's predicted market value for players where it's available (number in brackets). Surprised they don't have a number for Hilton, but I think he's more valuable than Sutton.

Even if we didn't resign any UFAs, we'd need to make some serious changes because bringing in 20 league minimum guys to get to a 53 man roster would cost us $12.2M.

If we assume that the cap stays the same (and doesn't dip to the floor), that would put is about $12.3M over the cap (just with min salary guys at ~ 600k/year). Worst case would be that it dips to $175M and we're >$37M over in that case. The team is clearly pretty bad if we replace contributors with mins everywhere.

Here are the guys who represent the biggest cap savings if cut. Remember that cutting them means they have to be replaced too. Note, I got cap savings as cap hit - dead cap, which I think is correct. I am also totally neglecting restructures and / or extensions because I don't really get how they work. I think restructures / extensions are more likely for middle aged guys with more time remaining on their contracts.



Player
Cap Savings
Do I think it will Happen


Ben
$19M
Didn't think so a month ago, now I say yes.


Hayden
$12.6M
Probably. Still good, but for how long. We won't be good next year anyway IMO


Decastro
$8.75M
I think we do something with him. Need to keep some OL and he should be good. Is he hurt?


Nelson
$8.25M
Would like to keep the younger of our starting corners if possible. I think maybe extension?


Pouncey
$8M
Need a new center IMO


Ebron
$6M
OK letting go, maybe want to keep one of the TEs though? Or go bargain hunting.


Tuitt
$5.7M
Keep if possible


Vance
$5.2M
OK letting go, maybe want to keep one of the TEs though? Or go bargain hunting.


Vince
$4M
Can we keep at low cost? Or maybe resign Spillane / Williamson for cheap? Listing as cut here.


Edmunds
$2M
Not an impact guy, but OK and savings isn't huge. Keep


D. Watt
$1.7M
Doesn't see much time, has been out a lot. Do we get a family discount? Cut.


Boswell
$1.4M
Keep


Washington
$1M
Keep



After that it's a bunch of other $1M or less savings, which don't make sense unless the player is really bad (since min is $600k).

I think the guts I have here are Ben, Haden, Pouncey, Ebron, Vance, Vince, and Derek Watt. That saves us ~ $88M (gets us down to $113M), but puts us at 26 players.

So we'd need to pick up 27 more guys to get a roster using $62M - $87M ($175M cap vs. $200M cap).

I think that's more aggressive than the Steelers will be, but who knows.

[Chucktownsteeler]

From the UFA list, the guys I'd want are:
- Bud ($16.6)
- Juju ($15.5)
- Hilton ($9M?) want to keep at slot. Needed to guess a number on my own here. Random guess at something higher than Sutton.
- Sutton (7.2M)
- One of Spillane or Williamson or some other cheap ILB. Let's say $5M? Ideally we'd feel confident in UG3 here, but I don't think we do.

If those numbers are correct, it gets us to 32 players and a cap hit of $166.3M. We still would need 21 guys, including big money positions like LT (although Okorafor is actually listed as LT) and QB.

It also doesn't include the truck load of money we'll pay to Watt next season (I think it's next season), but maybe we can structure that so that the 1st year cap hit isn't crazy?

My guess is that we can't keep Bud and JuJu here...maybe neither? Probably can't do Hilton and Sutton either?

Let's say that we don't keep Bud or JuJu and we bring back Sutton.

What would the guys under contract look like (in no particular order)? Let me know if I forgot a position.

Depth chart:
QB: Mason
WR: Washington, Johnson, Claypool
TE: Gentry,
RB: Snell, McFarland, Samuels
FB: < >
LT: Okorafor
G: DeCastro, Dotson
C: < >
RT: < >

FS: Fitzpatrick
SS: Edmunds
CB: Nelson, Sutton, Layne, Pierre
OLB: Watt, Highsmith
ILB: Bush, UGIII, Spillane
DT: Buggs
DE: Heyward, Tuitt, Davis

LS: Canaday
K: Boswell
P:

Needs lots of OL. 2 QBs. 2 TEs, preferably 1 can start. WRs. Backup S. Back LBs. A DT (can we bring back TA on the cheap?). P.

Probably more stuff too.

I would try and keep DuPree and Hilton. JJSS can walk, I have no love-loss for him. Ebron and McDonald as well. If we can keep Sutton good, but Hilton takes precedence. Pouncey can go as well as DD. I'm torn on AV but he'll probably retire, I suppose.

I wouldn't sacrifice the core of this team to keep a QB that at best has 1 or 2 mediocre years left. Even the Rats upgraded when they cut Flacco. These are hard decisions, no doubt but it is a business.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

so, i've seen teams a number of times convert salary to bonus, so that from a cap perspective the bonus can be spread across remaining years on the contract therefore lowering the current year's cap impact.

* wondering aloud *

is there some way to do the reverse of this (i.e., convert bonus to salary) to eliminate dead money...??

[Northern_Blitz]

Hey North, was just looking at this very thing. I had many of the same ideas for cuts. A couple of errors with the numbers though:

Haden is a $7M savings and your total savings are not $88M, closer to $50M. As far as the cap savings calculations go, you are correct. Another way to determine is by just adding up the base salary plus any bonuses that would be single season due this year, such as roster bonus, for guys who are going into the last year in 2021.

I am waiting to see how the season ends, but if what we have seen the last month is reflective of how the season ends then I agree that we talk to Ben about retiring and then clean house. I would add DD to your list, but not necessarily VW or Watt. Vince saves $4M as a starter and Watt might actually be used by the hopefully new OC. This house cleaning should allow you to re-sign FAs you might want to keep, allowing them to be football decisions, not strictly financial.

Chances are that the 2021 season would be a throwaway and a high first round pick to follow for your next franchise QB. 2021 draft should concentrate on OL, TE, replacement CB for Haden, and only if someone you love falls QB.

Remember though, I would only do this if this awful slide continues, and the Steelers are done in one.


Thanks TO. Great minds thing alike, I guess!

Not surprised that there's math errors here, thanks for the heads up.

The site I linked had Haden's cap hit at $15.5M and his dead money as $3M. I think that means that we'd save $12.5M if he gets cut. But maybe I got it wrong?

I certainly screwed up the addition which is ~$58M if I'm wright about Haden and ~$53M if you're right...I'll adjust this in the original posts.

So, definitely fewer of the UFAs to come back and more bargain bin / vet min guys coming in.

Edited to add: It looks like the difference we have re: Haden is about the prorated portion of the signing bonus. In the link I gave above, they list his dead cap hit as the "restructure bonus" only. But I think you're right that it should be the "restructure bonus" + "pro-rated SB". That would mean that the savings would only be his base salary ($7M). That makes sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something about how the restructure gets treated? I don't think there's any way to minus out the signing bonus portion here. And I don't think it's mislabeled as a roster bonus because he obviously got a signing bonus.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

So, definitely fewer of the UFAs to come back and more bargain bin / vet min guys coming in.

I agree. If the Steelers continue to look like this then it's the end of an era.

[Northern_Blitz]

I agree. If the Steelers continue to look like this then it's the end of an era.

I think this is basically the last real chance even if Ben bounces back.

I think we're going to be hurting for talent next year.

But we might end up being bad enough to get a really high draft pick (especially by our standards). Especially since the AFCN will probably be pretty good outside of us baring big injuries.

[flippy]

I think you try to keep as much of the D together and make another run.

I'd make signing TJ, Bud, Hilton, and Sutton my priorities and try to extend everyone else as best you can to keep the unit together.

This D + some offensive weapons makes Pittsburgh a potential great landing spot for a good enough QB that may be able to get us over the hump. I'd suggest if Cam has worn out his welcome in NE, he might be the kind of guy that Mike Tomlin could get something out of.

Cam's not super accurate, but he's got a strong arm and I think he might be able to hit it big deep from time to time with CC, JW, and DJ. I think he's got a lot of football left and he probably won't have a better option than Pittsburgh if we wanted him.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think you try to keep as much of the D together and make another run.

I'd make signing TJ, Bud, Hilton, and Sutton my priorities and try to extend everyone else as best you can to keep the unit together.

This D + some offensive weapons makes Pittsburgh a potential great landing spot for a good enough QB that may be able to get us over the hump. I'd suggest if Cam has worn out his welcome in NE, he might be the kind of guy that Mike Tomlin could get something out of.

Cam's not super accurate, but he's got a strong arm and I think he might be able to hit it big deep from time to time with CC, JW, and DJ. I think he's got a lot of football left and he probably won't have a better option than Pittsburgh if we wanted him.

Newton might be the kind of interesting low-cost gamble we could make if we cut Ben.

His contract this year is basically $1M, but BB probably had to go full Jedi mind trick on that one.

Still, if Cam's goal was to play himself into a better contract his play on the field did not do that. It was also kind of the perfect storm with guys available and Cam didn't have a chair when the music stopped.

So maybe he'd be up for another cheap prove it deal?

Jameis Winston should also be around for a very low value.

RG3 as well.

Not going to get a good QB, but all of those guys are on cheap deals ($1M or RG3 @ $2.5M).

We need to bring in competition with MR for who gets to drive the bus to a high 1st round pick and these are probably the kind of options we'll get.

I'd also like to keep as much of the D together as possible. I don't think we'll get Bud back, but hope we can do one of the corners. Maybe early picks at LB? But we'll need a lot of help at OL too.

[Northern_Blitz]

I would try and keep DuPree and Hilton. JJSS can walk, I have no love-loss for him. Ebron and McDonald as well. If we can keep Sutton good, but Hilton takes precedence. Pouncey can go as well as DD. I'm torn on AV but he'll probably retire, I suppose.

I wouldn't sacrifice the core of this team to keep a QB that at best has 1 or 2 mediocre years left. Even the Rats upgraded when they cut Flacco. These are hard decisions, no doubt but it is a business.

I agree with your ranking of the defensive UFAs. But I don't think we'll be able to afford Bud or Hilton, so I went with what I think will be the lowest cost of the top 3. Sutton can also play outside and I don't think Hilton can.

Wonder what Layne looks like in practice. The team would benefit a lot if he and UGIII can play.

[flippy]

I'd also like to keep as much of the D together as possible. I don't think we'll get Bud back, but hope we can do one of the corners. Maybe early picks at LB? But we'll need a lot of help at OL too.

Agree on the other points. I think we need to keep Bud somehow because he seems like a nucleus for us. Guys like TJ and Minkah are all biz and I think Bud's one of the few guys that really connects with both of them. I get the sense that Bud is the guy everyone genuinely likes.

If you get rid of him, Haden, Conner, and Juju, you lose a lot of chemistry on this team.

I also think you can't lose Hilton or Sutton. Hilton is a freakish LB / slot CB hybrid. And Sutton is on the verge of being a great cover corner. I almost wish there was a way to move Haden to S with Minkah and move Edmunds to ILB next to Bush. I think Haden's a good enough athlete to have another 5-6 years or more in him at S. But he's gonna eventually lose too much of a step at CB in the coming years.

[NorthCoast]

Bud will be out of reach. But I would keep Hilton over JJSS, or any offensive FA at this point.

[Northern_Blitz]

Bud will be out of reach. But I would keep Hilton over JJSS, or any offensive FA at this point.

I think we probably get rid of Juju too.

And I think that's unfortunate because he seems like a good WR to have for a rookie QB. Like a TE but better

[NorthCoast]

The offense pretty much needs rebuilt and that's going to be a multi-year project. The way they are being dominated on the OL is shocking, I think they should pass on skill position players for the most part until this is done. consistently struggling to gain 1 yd is the tell-all. It will be ugly for a few years but no way around it.

[Northern_Blitz]

The offense pretty much needs rebuilt and that's going to be a multi-year project. The way they are being dominated on the OL is shocking, I think they should pass on skill position players for the most part until this is done. consistently struggling to gain 1 yd is the tell-all. It will be ugly for a few years but no way around it.

I agree with you.

Get the non glamorous guys this season. And focus on QB and other sexy stuff next year.

But we'll have lots of holes this offseason, so should be a good opportunity for BPA.

[NJ-STEELER]

You need to include their dead cap hit if cut.

gor example. We have tuitt as a cap savings of 5 + million.

his dead cap hot for next year looks to be 9 million.
there no way they cut him if that’s accurate

The talk of a Ben extension is because his dead cap hit for next year is over 20m. Lot of dough for someone not on the roster

[Northern_Blitz]

You need to include their dead cap hit if cut.

gor example. We have tuitt as a cap savings of 5 + million.

his dead cap hot for next year looks to be 9 million.
there no way they cut him if that’s accurate

The talk of a Ben extension is because his dead cap hit for next year is over 20m. Lot of dough for someone not on the roster

Thanks NJ.

I believe the dead money is included here. The cap savings listed is cap hit if playing) minus dead money (because the dead money stays.

In Tuitt's case, his cap hit if he plays is about $15m. His dead money is $9m if he gets cut. So the savings would be about $6m. He's still productive and we'd need to replace him if he didn't play, so I think we keep him.

That's how I think it works for all the cuts we'd talk about (including Pouncey or Haden). The numbers I used for the calculations are in the link I provided on guys under contract for next year. Hope I didn't make additional math errors on top of the ones I pointed out. I think TO was right about Haden and my numbers make it look like we have an extra $5M of room that we don't have.

I agree with you on Ben and his dead money. And I was firmly in the extend camp too until the last month. But like Heyward this year, I think the extension has to be pretty long to get some relief.

But let's say he gets the same extension as last time (I think 2 years is too short to get much help). $68M over 2 years including a $33.5M signing bonus (and some roster bonuses included). I think it might need to be longer than that to get much relief from the $41 cap hit we have now and I think he'd get paid more given the market rate for franchise QBs.

If he keeps playing, that means he would count for some combination of $109M over the next three years (the $68 in new money plus the $41 for playing this year). As with his current contract, I'm sure we would kick as much as possible to the last year.

But there are rules for how much you can restructure and back load, so I'd be surprised if we could do all that much over such a short period (although I don't exactly understand the parameters for restructures). He might even get more than this as the market rate for QBs only goes up. If it was all distributed evenly, his cap hit would be $36.3 / year for the next three in this scenario.

As I said, I don't fully understand the rules for extensions and pushing money around. But in his last extension (also 2 years), he got the following percentages of remaining cap hit in the remaining year + the 2 years of the extension. 28% in existing year, 26% in year 2 (after another max restructure), 46% in the final year (next year).

If those percentages hold, I think the cap hits would be $30.5M, $28.3M, $50.1M. But given his current level of play, I don't think they'd do another restructure in the middle, so that ~$78.5M would probably be distributed more evenly across the last 2 years.

Although if he could play 2 more years, we'd end up in a similar position as now just with even more dead money or an even larger cap hit if he played it out.

So, I 100% agree that the dead money is going to suck. But it sucks way less than letting him play out the contract with a $41M cap hit. Or extending him for a market level deal IMO.

The dead money is the price we (gladly) pay for kicking his cap hit down the road for so long to remain competitive. But it means that we'll suck when he's done (or in his last contract year if he ever gets to it).

[feltdizz]

I think you try to keep as much of the D together and make another run.

I'd make signing TJ, Bud, Hilton, and Sutton my priorities and try to extend everyone else as best you can to keep the unit together.

This D + some offensive weapons makes Pittsburgh a potential great landing spot for a good enough QB that may be able to get us over the hump. I'd suggest if Cam has worn out his welcome in NE, he might be the kind of guy that Mike Tomlin could get something out of.

Cam's not super accurate, but he's got a strong arm and I think he might be able to hit it big deep from time to time with CC, JW, and DJ. I think he's got a lot of football left and he probably won't have a better option than Pittsburgh if we wanted him.

Cam looks done too. Billicheat definitely took advantage of the Covid situation with Cam. He couldn’t work out for teams but wanted to start and the Pats gave him that chance.

It failed miserably. Still not sure if Covid impacted him more than some want to admit. He was balling early on and then once he came back after testing positive he was trash.

I would actually give Jameis a look before Cam. He threw for a ton of yards and pushes the ball downfield. INT’s are definitely a problem but I think in our system he is worth a shot and should be affordable.

[Northern_Blitz]

Cam looks done too. Billicheat definitely took advantage of the Covid situation with Cam. He couldn’t work out for teams but wanted to start and the Pats gave him that chance.

It failed miserably. Still not sure if Covid impacted him more than some want to admit. He was balling early on and then once he came back after testing positive he was trash.

I would actually give Jameis a look before Cam. He threw for a ton of yards and pushes the ball downfield. INT’s are definitely a problem but I think in our system he is worth a shot and should be affordable.

I wouldn't be opposed to Winston if we can get him on a deal like the one he's currently on.

Lots of INTs, but TDs too. Almost certainly better then MR.

[NorthCoast]

You need to include their dead cap hit if cut.

gor example. We have tuitt as a cap savings of 5 + million.

his dead cap hot for next year looks to be 9 million.
there no way they cut him if that’s accurate

The talk of a Ben extension is because his dead cap hit for next year is over 20m. Lot of dough for someone not on the rosterThat's pretty close to the hit they took for AB. It's doable but painful. And if he really is cooked as a starter it's got to be done.

[Northern_Blitz]

That's pretty close to the hit they took for AB. It's doable but painful. And if he really is cooked as a starter it's got to be done.

This.

The "nice" thing about the AB hit was that we got a cap reimbursement from the Bell tag that went unused because he didn't play.

Although it would have been MUCH nicer to be able to use the bonus $20M in cap space to make the team better instead of shipping AB off for what seemed like way below market value at the time (especially if the BUF rumors were true).

[Disco1981]

This.

The "nice" thing about the AB hit was that we got a cap reimbursement from the Bell tag that went unused because he didn't play.

Although it would have been MUCH nicer to be able to use the bonus $20M in cap space to make the team better instead of shipping AB off for what seemed like way below market value at the time (especially if the BUF rumors were true).

I really like to your posts! Always up on the salary cap, and the financial ramifications of the Steelers Roster also...

If true ( pretty sure it was ) the Buffalo rumor...I believe it was the no.8 pick...That pick used on a QB would have looked really nice right now in hindsight...But who knows what they woulda done!

[flippy]

Cam looks done too. Billicheat definitely took advantage of the Covid situation with Cam. He couldn’t work out for teams but wanted to start and the Pats gave him that chance.

It failed miserably. Still not sure if Covid impacted him more than some want to admit. He was balling early on and then once he came back after testing positive he was trash.

I would actually give Jameis a look before Cam. He threw for a ton of yards and pushes the ball downfield. INT’s are definitely a problem but I think in our system he is worth a shot and should be affordable.

I think Covid was a lot bigger for Cam than it was reported.

Plus switching offensive systems without the off season is a ton on a QB.

And I'm not 100% sure Bill B is the kind of coach the jives well with Cam's personality.

By all accounts, Cam is still one of the best athletes in the league and he's got a great arm. The player he most reminds me of is Ben if Ben could run too. Just like Ben, Cam plays out of his mind sometimes and no one looks better. Then other times you get Bad Cam just like Bad Ben.

I'd consider Jameis too, but I like Cam a lot more. Cam has always gotten a weird rep and his personality rubs some the wrong way, but from everything I've ever heard about him, he's driven and has a crazy work ethic and I think Tomlin would be the perfect coach for him and might even be able to get an MVP season out of him.

But I haven't followed Jameis close enough. Just have seen a couple games where he was more off than any pro I've ever seen.

[Northern_Blitz]

I really like to your posts! Always up on the salary cap, and the financial ramifications of the Steelers Roster also...

If true ( pretty sure it was ) the Buffalo rumor...I believe it was the no.8 pick...That pick used on a QB would have looked really nice right now in hindsight...But who knows what they woulda done!

Thanks Disco.

I'm trying to learn more about the cap, but I think there's lots I don't know. In particular, I'd like to understand how extensions and restructures work so I could get a sense of what a Ben extension might look like.

I want to try to see if I can understand if there's a reasonable way to extend him (and not gut the rest of the team). I currently don't think there is, but I'm hoping his play proves me wrong in the next couple weeks.

[NJ-STEELER]

That's pretty close to the hit they took for AB. It's doable but painful. And if he really is cooked as a starter it's got to be done.
agreed. It’s a tough pill to swallow but at least it would be a quick turnaround for 2022.
And hopefully most of the defensive pieces are still in play

[NJ-STEELER]

Thanks Disco.

I'm trying to learn more about the cap, but I think there's lots I don't know. In particular, I'd like to understand how extensions and restructures work so I could get a sense of what a Ben extension might look like.

I want to try to see if I can understand if there's a reasonable way to extend him (and not gut the rest of the team). I currently don't think there is, but I'm hoping his play proves me wrong in the next couple weeks.


it would have to be a new deal at a fraction of his previous one

40m for 3 years or something like that. Something to bring down his cap hit to 20-25M
Is that even allowed by the league? Would Ben even sign off on a deal like that?
You know the NFLPA would also freak out over a deal like that too.

looks virtually impossible right now

[Northern_Blitz]

it would have to be a new deal at a fraction of his previous one

40m for 3 years or something like that. Something to bring down his cap hit to 20-25M
Is that even allowed by the league? Would Ben even sign off on a deal like that?
You know the NFLPA would also freak out over a deal like that too.

looks virtually impossible right now

It's not against the rules as long as the cap hits are distributed properly (I think).

I don't think Ben plays for much less than market value (or I think he would have done it last time). A cut from 30+ m per year to 14m seems very unlikely to me.

I think you're right that the union puts pressure on guys to play at market value. But players can ultimately do what they like.

[Sly]

I think you try to keep as much of the D together and make another run.

I'd make signing TJ, Bud, Hilton, and Sutton my priorities and try to extend everyone else as best you can to keep the unit together.

This D + some offensive weapons makes Pittsburgh a potential great landing spot for a good enough QB that may be able to get us over the hump. I'd suggest if Cam has worn out his welcome in NE, he might be the kind of guy that Mike Tomlin could get something out of.

Cam's not super accurate, but he's got a strong arm and I think he might be able to hit it big deep from time to time with CC, JW, and DJ. I think he's got a lot of football left and he probably won't have a better option than Pittsburgh if we wanted him.

I saw Cam play twice this year, and he looked terrible. Granted that you could get him on the cheap, but I don't see how he would be an improvement over Ben. As distasteful as it may be, it may be time for a rebuild. Pittsburgh has to draft a QB. The good news is that you don't have to draft first to get a good one. Wilson wasn't drafted until the 3rd round, and even Mahomes was the 10th selection in his draft class. The reality for Pittsburgh is that the three teams in its division all have young QBs. So I don't think it makes sense for Pittsburgh to try to win with some reclamation project.

[Northern_Blitz]

I saw Cam play twice this year, and he looked terrible. Granted that you could get him on the cheap, but I don't see how he would be an improvement over Ben. As distasteful as it may be, it may be time for a rebuild. Pittsburgh has to draft a QB. The good news is that you don't have to draft first to get a good one. Wilson wasn't drafted until the 3rd round, and even Mahomes was the 10th selection in his draft class. The reality for Pittsburgh is that the three teams in its division all have young QBs. So I don't think it makes sense for Pittsburgh to try to win with some reclamation project.

I think we wait a year into the rebuild to get a QB in the draft.

Cut the dead wood and look for BPAs this year. Keep as many defensive guys as we can.

Suck. QB is MR and competition from a cheap scrap heap QB like Winston or Newton.

Then pick early and shoot for a QB.

Dont reach if there isn't one available. Repeat the tank if no good options (or we get 8 wins or something)

[SteelerMaine83]

Thanks for a realistic look at the Salary Cap mess we’ll be in, NB. Very easy to posit which FAs we’ll keep when you don’t understand the reality of where we are at.

Because of the expected drop in revenues, we will be over the cap by at least $10m or as much as about $25m (if it bottoms at $175m), with a whole bunch of FAs we’d like to keep (nevermind the fact we’ll also have to clear $5-7m for rookies). That means we will be cutting guys before we can even think about keeping guys.

On the bright side, we can actually save money on TJ’s cap hit (10m+) by signing him long term. If we signed him for 8 years at $176m ($22m a year), we could give him a signing bonus of $40m and a base of $1m, making his cap hit only $6m this year (saving $4k+) but giving him a $41m paycheck this year. Let’s face it—that’s a realistic price to keep him and a way to save a little cap space this year.

[Northern_Blitz]

Thanks for a realistic look at the Salary Cap mess we’ll be in, NB. Very easy to posit which FAs we’ll keep when you don’t understand the reality of where we are at.

Because of the expected drop in revenues, we will be over the cap by at least $10m or as much as about $25m (if it bottoms at $175m), with a whole bunch of FAs we’d like to keep (nevermind the fact we’ll also have to clear $5-7m for rookies). That means we will be cutting guys before we can even think about keeping guys.

On the bright side, we can actually save money on TJ’s cap hit (10m+) by signing him long term. If we signed him for 8 years at $176m ($22m a year), we could give him a signing bonus of $40m and a base of $1m, making his cap hit only $6m this year (saving $4k+) but giving him a $41m paycheck this year. Let’s face it—that’s a realistic price to keep him and a way to save a little cap space this year.

No problem. I had a feeling it was bad, but I wanted to at least get an idea. I wish the news was better.

I'm hoping that if the cap does drop (to say the floor of $175), the league and the PA will have guys under contract take a hit (maybe the same ~ 12.5% that a drop to the floor would represent). Otherwise, basically every team will be over the cap, we'll see an insane amount of cuts and anyone who's a UFA will bear the pain (while guys under contract will be fine).

I agree that there will be some extending and restructuring that we do. I don't exactly understand how that stuff works, so I didn't speculate here. Hoping to learn this off season. I think going into this season looked bad and Kahn and friends were able to dig us out with restructures and stuff. But Ben doesn't have any more years to kick the can to...

[NJ-STEELER]

With the cap dropping. We won’t be the only team in this type of situation.

For example the saints are actually worse off right now.
a few other good teams will have to make some cap cuts

I do wonder if they try to work out a deal since this season was played under a pandemic were fans weren’t allowed to attend.
Perhaps they try to go with a salary cap from revenues the year prior.

[Northern_Blitz]

With the cap dropping. We won’t be the only team in this type of situation.

For example the saints are actually worse off right now.
a few other good teams will have to make some cap cuts

I do wonder if they try to work out a deal since this season was played under a pandemic were fans weren’t allowed to attend.
Perhaps they try to go with a salary cap from revenues the year prior.

Just guessing, but I bet that they keep the cap constant this year. Then maybe keep it constant for X number of years until the owners are made whole for the loss they take on their ~ 50% of the revenue this year.

It kind of screws future players in favor of those playing now. But, future players don't get votes on amendments to the CBA.

[Steel Maniac]

With the cap dropping. We won’t be the only team in this type of situation.

For example the saints are actually worse off right now.
a few other good teams will have to make some cap cuts

I do wonder if they try to work out a deal since this season was played under a pandemic were fans weren’t allowed to attend.
Perhaps they try to go with a salary cap from revenues the year prior.

So true; they’ll be a lot of surprise cuts around the league.

[Sword]

No to Cam N.....No!!!!

[hawaiiansteel]

No to Cam N.....No!!!!

you don't think he looks good in black & gold?

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/MjuSMLFu7dkIb8FYToXREhHe4B0=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21881244/Image_from_iOS.jpg

[Sly]

As bad as the cap picture is for the Steelers for 2021, if it's any consolation there are three teams that are in worse shape than the Steelers. Here's a projection with both the $175 and $190M cap limits.
https://overthecap.com/looking-ahead-to-2021-salary-cap-space/