Are we experiencing the same thing with Ben that happened to Lamar?

[Captain Lemming]

Do you remember when it became clear teams were figuring out how to play Lamar? Make him throw outside?

Has the same things happened to us and Ben? It took time to figure out what we were doing so successfully. Ben was impressive with his quick release. Ben has a reputation for the deep ball, so teams had to respect it even if he wasn't throwing deep.

As time has gone on everyone started to realize Ben no longer has the deep ball prowess he used to have. When teams crown the los not only an they disrupt the short passing game, they clog running lanes.

It is worse than Baltimores issue as ours kills the run game too.

In fact our run game may not be as garbage as it looks. Without the fear of getting beat deep it is just too congested inside.

Our only chance is to hope Ben gets that part of his game back.

My tiny glimmer of hope:

If by some miracle the deep game does come back, and the receivers start hanging on to the ball, we could destroy opponents punishing them for crowding the los.

[hawaiiansteel]

unfortunately Ben can't run like Lamar.

did you see LJ last night against the Browns, some unbelievable runs.

[Northern_Blitz]

Do you remember when it became clear teams were figuring out how to play Lamar? Make him throw outside?

Has the same things happened to us and Ben? It took time to figure out what we were doing so successfully. Ben was impressive with his quick release. Ben has a reputation for the deep ball, so teams had to respect it even if he wasn't throwing deep.

As time has gone on everyone started to realize Ben no longer has the deep ball prowess he used to have. When teams crown the los not only an they disrupt the short passing game, they clog running lanes.

It is worse than Baltimores issue as ours kills the run game too.

In fact our run game may not be as garbage as it looks. Without the fear of getting beat deep it is just too congested inside.

Our only chance is to hope Ben gets that part of his game back.

My tiny glimmer of hope:

If by some miracle the deep game does come back, and the receivers start hanging on to the ball, we could destroy opponents punishing them for crowding the los.

Are you listening Santa.

This is what we want for Christmas. :tt2

[The Glory Days]

Do you remember when it became clear teams were figuring out how to play Lamar? Make him throw outside?

Has the same things happened to us and Ben? It took time to figure out what we were doing so successfully. Ben was impressive with his quick release. Ben has a reputation for the deep ball, so teams had to respect it even if he wasn't throwing deep.

As time has gone on everyone started to realize Ben no longer has the deep ball prowess he used to have. When teams crown the los not only an they disrupt the short passing game, they clog running lanes.

It is worse than Baltimores issue as ours kills the run game too.

In fact our run game may not be as garbage as it looks. Without the fear of getting beat deep it is just too congested inside.

Our only chance is to hope Ben gets that part of his game back.

My tiny glimmer of hope:

If by some miracle the deep game does come back, and the receivers start hanging on to the ball, we could destroy opponents punishing them for crowding the los.

Totally agree with this. The thing with LJ, however, is that even though he and the raisins' offense have been figured out, his talent is a threat. on every play. Ben and the Steelers' offense is not a threat unless the defense misses tackles. We might complete passes (catching required, however) but 5 yard dink and dunk with no threat of a running game is not going to keep defensive coordinators up at night.

Our problem is not the running game, receivers, Ben, or any combination of the three. Our problem is our OL. They can't block. And that goes back to last season. They can't run block OR pass block. If they could, Ben wouldn't be leading the league in release time. You can't run an efficient offense when you can't allow plays to develop.

[feltdizz]

I think we are experiencing a lack of talent on offense. We have some good young players but we don’t have any stars. Claypool is the closest thing but he is still raw and teams are taking him out of the game plan. Washington is great at combat catches but he is slow as hell and scares no one. DJ could be that gut but his hands have betrayed him.

Our RB’s just aren’t cutting it IMO. Yeah, the OL could be better but damn, Conner just runs into guys.. I think he needs contacts. They lack the speed to hit the edge and Conner is the only one we trust to protect Ben.

When the Bills needed offense their star player made plays.

[hawaiiansteel]

The thing with LJ, however, is that even though he and the raisins' offense have been figured out, his talent is a threat. on every play.

I agree, LJ's incredible athletic talent and playmaking ability is what our Steelers' offense sorely misses.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think we are experiencing a lack of talent on offense. We have some good young players but we don’t have any stars. Claypool is the closest thing but he is still raw and teams are taking him out of the game plan. Washington is great at combat catches but he is slow as hell and scares no one. DJ could be that gut but his hands have betrayed him.

Our RB’s just aren’t cutting it IMO. Yeah, the OL could be better but damn, Conner just runs into guys.. I think he needs contacts. They lack the speed to hit the edge and Conner is the only one we trust to protect Ben.

When the Bills needed offense their star player made plays.

FWIW, I think JuJu is a very high level player (not sure what counts as a "star"). He's kind of like Hines. Consistently very good, but not elite.

I actually like our WR corps (although I wish DJ could catch). I think we probably have four #2 type guys. JuJu is probably really a #1 and Washington is probably really a #3, but I think we should always have someone that creates a mismatch (if they can catch it).

We should be a passing team where a team doesn't really have a clear choice on who to take away. Where any of those guys should be able to put up 100+ multiple TD games if they have the opportunity.

[feltdizz]

FWIW, I think JuJu is a very high level player (not sure what counts as a "star"). He's kind of like Hines. Consistently very good, but not elite.

I actually like our WR corps (although I wish DJ could catch). I think we probably have four #2 type guys. JuJu is probably really a #1 and Washington is probably really a #3, but I think we should always have someone that creates a mismatch (if they can catch it).

We should be a passing team where a team doesn't really have a clear choice on who to take away. Where any of those guys should be able to put up 100+ multiple TD games if they have the opportunity.

JuJu isn’t a #1. He’s a 2WR and does his best work in the slot. He also was extremely helpful in the running game.

[Northern_Blitz]

JuJu isn’t a #1. He’s a 2WR and does his best work in the slot. He also was extremely helpful in the running game.

This might depend on what #1 WR means. I'll use "in the top 32" as a rough metric because that would mean that there should be at least 1 team that you'd be the best WR on.

I get it if you prefer to think a WR1 is an elite player that's almost always in the probowl and usually on or in the conversation for 1st team all pro. I'd call that an elite WR, and JuJu hasn't been that yet. At least consistently (although at least part of that is QB play...but part of his early success was QB play too).

Here are his receiving totals and rank since he's been in the league

2017 917 22nd
2018 1,479 5th (ahead of AB)
2019 552 (only played 12 games, on pace for 736, which is outside of top 32)
2020 655 (currently ranked 38. Currently 22 yards...or ~ 2/game out of the top 32).

So, do his first 2 years behind AB with a QB able to throw more than 15 yards represent his ability better? Or is his ability better represented by the last two years?

Even if it's the average of the two, he's probably in the top 32 WRs in the league.

Does that make someone a #1 WR?
Maybe?

I think he probably is a low end #1 in the same way Hines was (and he's not as good as Hines without doing it for as long as Hines did). Consistent. Can be the best WR on a team. Maybe a probowler, but probably not a 1st team all pro.

He looked like a "star" in year 2. But maybe that was very high level QB play and being behind an all-world talent like AB. He has not looked like a star since then. Although I think he might not be the biggest reason for that (especially last year...but maybe this year too).

My guess is that we probably mostly agree on the concept here? Even if we might differ on what a WR1 means.

[feltdizz]

This might depend on what #1 WR means. I'll use "in the top 32" as a rough metric because that would mean that there should be at least 1 team that you'd be the best WR on.

I get it if you prefer to think a WR1 is an elite player that's almost always in the probowl and usually on or in the conversation for 1st team all pro. I'd call that an elite WR, and JuJu hasn't been that yet. At least consistently (although at least part of that is QB play...but part of his early success was QB play too).

Here are his receiving totals and rank since he's been in the league

2017 917 22nd
2018 1,479 5th (ahead of AB)
2019 552 (only played 12 games, on pace for 736, which is outside of top 32)
2020 655 (currently ranked 38. Currently 22 yards...or ~ 2/game out of the top 32).

So, do his first 2 years behind AB with a QB able to throw more than 15 yards represent his ability better? Or is his ability better represented by the last two years?

Even if it's the average of the two, he's probably in the top 32 WRs in the league.

Does that make someone a #1 WR?
Maybe?

I think he probably is a low end #1 in the same way Hines was (and he's not as good as Hines without doing it for as long as Hines did). Consistent. Can be the best WR on a team. Maybe a probowler, but probably not a 1st team all pro.

He looked like a "star" in year 2. But maybe that was very high level QB play and being behind an all-world talent like AB. He has not looked like a star since then. Although I think he might not be the biggest reason for that (especially last year...but maybe this year too).

My guess is that we probably mostly agree on the concept here? Even if we might differ on what a WR1 means.

I believe the #1WR demands the most attention by opposing teams and still finds ways to get open. IMO thats not where JuJu shines.

There is a reason he had crazy stats when AB was getting all the attention and hasn’t come anywhere close to that same impact since AB has left.

I don’t think anyone is saying “we have to stop JuJu to have the best chance to win” when they face us. I think they say “we have to stop Claypool”

..and that’s fine. It’s not a knock on JuJu, I just think he is more of a possession WR who has the most impact when facing the 2nd best DB.

[Northern_Blitz]

I believe the #1WR demands the most attention by opposing teams and still finds ways to get open. IMO thats not where JuJu shines.

There is a reason he had crazy stats when AB was getting all the attention and hasn’t come anywhere close to that same impact since AB has left.

I don’t think anyone is saying “we have to stop JuJu to have the best chance to win” when they face us. I think they say “we have to stop Claypool”

..and that’s fine. It’s not a knock on JuJu, I just think he is more of a possession WR who has the most impact when facing the 2nd best DB.

I think we're basically saying the same thing.