Was it mason or Fitchner???

[Chucktownsteeler]

Look, I have to allegiance to Mason Rudolph other than I hope he does well as the Steelers will do well.

He and Duck got a lot of flack last year for the dink, dank, dunk offense. Maybe they were just running the plays that were called.

If the Steelers had this in mind why:

1.) Didn't we try to sign Tom brady?
2.) Why did we draft the homerun threat in Claypool?

[feltdizz]

We didn’t sign Brady because we have Ben. That’s a silly question.

I agree about the philosophy, I thought it was just because we had Mason nut it appears our O is really trying to extend Ben’s career with this new offense.

Would love to see us open it up once the playoffs start and throw people off.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.

[Eich]

I'm not sure why anyone would conclude that Ben's arm is gone. He's been off here and there but for the most part, I think he's played very well this season.

The receivers on the other hand? Brady would go medieval on them if they dropped that many balls.

The playcalling has been awful. I'm also hoping that we go into a new mode in the playoffs to throw everyone off.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I'm not sure why anyone would conclude that Ben's arm is gone. He's been off here and there but for the most part, I think he's played very well this season.

The receivers on the other hand? Brady would go medieval on them if they dropped that many balls.

The playcalling has been awful. I'm also hoping that we go into a new mode in the playoffs to throw everyone off.

I just think the preponderance of the evidence of a short passing attack and Ben's inaccuracy on any passes over 10 yards leads me to that conclusion. I was cussing out McFarland until I saw the 2nd angle of the pass. He had no chance to catch it.

Did all the receivers forget how to catch at the same time? Most played in inclement weather in college.

My original point is do we keep Ben for another year, maybe 2 and let the solid core of young players walk?

[Eich]

My original point is do we keep Ben for another year, maybe 2 and let the solid core of young players walk?

Without Ben, we're an 8-8 team at best, until we can find his replacement. It's not Rudolph IMO.

Right now, it's too easy for teams to game plan against us. Our run game is short passes behind or near the LOS and our game plan is for Ben to get rid of it in under 3 seconds. So defenses can just light up tight at the line and dare us to do something different.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Without Ben, we're an 8-8 team at best, until we can find his replacement. It's not Rudolph IMO.

Right now, it's too easy for teams to game plan against us. Our run game is short passes behind or near the LOS and our game plan is for Ben to get rid of it in under 3 seconds. So defenses can just light up tight at the line and dare us to do something different.

If we keep Ben and let the core FAs walk I'm afraid we're somewhere in the area of 4-12 or 5-11. Maybe that's what we need to have a chance to draft his replacement. A losing season or 2. Cleveland is on the rise but they should be. They've been drafting in the top 5 for years now, a few with the overall #1 pick. We may need that.

[feltdizz]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.

not sure Brady would fare much better since he sucks at the deep ball and short accurate passes are being dropped by our WR’s right now.

The only plus is Brady is a practice whore so I doubt he would miss a whole week of practice.

I still think we are kind of in a holding pattern with Ben while his knee heals up. I expect our O to step it up the closer we get to the playoffs.

I think we are resting up and Conner, Pouncey come back with something to prove and Ben also gets back to work.

[NorthCoast]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.CTown, they said the same thing about TB in Tampa. Strong defense, lots of weapons on offense. Look where they're at now. And how do you fit two $30M QBs in the cap (BR's dead cap is $46M). Not realistic and never considered.

[steeler_george]

DK of DK Sports hit on this, did they scrap the idea of Ben deep ball when it was not there in training camp, and ran with what was workig with the dink and dunk.

[Chucktownsteeler]

DK of DK Sports hit on this, did they scrap the idea of Ben deep ball when it was not there in training camp, and ran with what was workig with the dink and dunk.

Now the dink, dank, dunk has been figured out. What's next?

[Northern_Blitz]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.

I'm not sure it's an either / or decision here. I think we lose some good young-ish players this off season even if we do cut Ben (e.g. Hilton, Dupree, some of the O-Line guys).

If we cut Ben, we need to sign a QB with a cap hit of ~ $1M to have less cap space going to QBs next year than this year.

He has an enormous hit next year (~$41M if he plays and isn't extended and ~ $21M if he's cut I think).

That's why I think we almost have to extend him if we want to be competitive next season (and that still probably comes with a higher cap number at QB next year vs. this year.

We have to pay the piper for the past at some point.

To the OP, I think it could easily be both. I don't think Fitchner is a good OC (except that he doesn't seem to be a control freak who only wants things done his way) and I don't think the MR is a starting caliber QB in the NFL (although I hope to be proven wrong if he's still around when Ben retires).

[feltdizz]

Now the dink, dank, dunk has been figured out. What's next?

dank, dunk, dink???

[The Man of Steel]

Now the dink, dank, dunk has been figured out. What's next?
The Run and Shoot or maybe a triple option attack like the Flexbone offense. I don’t effin know anymore.

[Eich]

dank, dunk, dink???

As long as it's not sink, sank, sunk

[fordfixer]

dank, dunk, dink???
More like bing, bang, Clank

[Steel Maniac]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.

And you have to think that way; We do have some tough choices ahead. But I"m confident we will look at all our options and come up with at least a serviceable QB in the future.

[pfelix73]

I'm not so sure it is a silly question, although it was tongue in cheek. Do you realize what Brady could do with this defense and the weapons on offense. It probably never would have happened but he's be licking his chops for sure.

If we leave the core group of young players walk for a QB that no longer has a long ball we will be fighting it out with the Bengals for the cellar.

Look, I love ben and what he has brought to our team but there are time difficult decisions have to be made. I think his arm is gone.

I think if we could keep the core group of our younger players together we could still be competitive.

LOL, What? His arm is as good now as it was 2 years ago. They are just in this short game stuff (crap) right now. He's shown that he can still wing it deep.

[Northern_Blitz]

LOL, What? His arm is as good now as it was 2 years ago. They are just in this short game stuff (crap) right now. He's shown that he can still wing it deep.

I think his deep bak accuracy hasn't been good this season or his last full season.

[NorthCoast]

I think his deep bak accuracy hasn't been good this season or his last full season.Agreed... his sideline throws down field have been spotty. There were two passes that never gave the WR a chance as they were OOBs by two yards. Then the throw to McFarland at the end... it's maybe relevant that Brady is having similar problems connecting on long throws.

I am starting to come to the realization that this is the way Roethlisberger wants to run the offense. He's running what he is comfortable playing. Hence the motion and jet sweep have disappeared. The run game is used grudgingly. The play action is as rare as hen's teeth. Short, safe, easy throws for the most part. The coaches have relented.

The thing now is BAL showed how to defend it, WFT picked up on it. Expect the remaining opponents to do the same. May not always work, but chances are it will keep the game close. Two weeks in a row scoring <20 pts. With a 'regular' week to practice, what will they do differently? That's the big question.

[Eich]

I remember a few years ago, Ben made the comment that he and Ryan Switzer were texting while watching Brady run the dink-dunk and Ben said, "Why can't we do that?". Ben and Tomlin have both been interested in emulating the cheater's offense. And at Ben's age, it makes sense for him to get rid of the ball quickly and not take hits. But I think they're finding that a lot of things have to come together for dink-dunk to continue working. You need some threat of a run game. And I think McDaniels is a lot better than Fichtner.

[feltdizz]

Ben, Brady and Brees are all struggling when going downfield this year.

father time is undefeated

[feltdizz]

I remember a few years ago, Ben made the comment that he and Ryan Switzer were texting while watching Brady run the dink-dunk and Ben said, "Why can't we do that?". Ben and Tomlin have both been interested in emulating the cheater's offense. And at Ben's age, it makes sense for him to get rid of the ball quickly and not take hits. But I think they're finding that a lot of things have to come together for dink-dunk to continue working. You need some threat of a run game. And I think McDaniels is a lot better than Fichtner.

Ben texting the wrong guy.. lol.

Text Washington or JuJu.. not the guy on the bubble.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Agreed... his sideline throws down field have been spotty. There were two passes that never gave the WR a chance as they were OOBs by two yards.

I agree that his deep throws have been off for the most part. I am hoping that it is more due to them not trying it enough so Ben is still rusty. It is better than the opposite which is that the reason he isn't throwing downfield is because he can't. If that is the case then you have to consider this being his last year. It's kind of strange if the arm strength is still there but accuracy goes, so hopefully that's not it.


Then the throw to McFarland at the end.

Not blaming Ben on that throw. That was on a rookie RB not understanding how to run a route and give himself separation. Watch the play again. He is out running a LB but staying inside - at least about 8 feet inside the sideline. That kept the window way too tight. Had he run upfield about 2-4 feet closer to the sideline then the ball is dropped into his hands. I'll won't get too down on a rook who is not used to running a route, but he has to learn from that.


I am starting to come to the realization that this is the way Roethlisberger wants to run the offense. He's running what he is comfortable playing. Hence the motion and jet sweep have disappeared. The run game is used grudgingly. The play action is as rare as hen's teeth. Short, safe, easy throws for the most part. The coaches have relented.

I agree that this seems to be Ben's vision on offense, and similar to other new schemes, eventually it gets figured out. If the Steelers try to stick to this O then it will likely be one and done (maybe two and done but that doesn't rhyme) and little chance to make it even to the AFCCG. The good news is that a few adjustments and nobody has game film on the Steelers O. There is still a ton of talent on this team. I think the biggest question to find out is whether or not Ben is willing to absorb any more hits. It seems that the objective on offense right now is to keep the QB from being sacked (which is good) at the expense of making plays (which is bad). If Ben is unwilling to take a hit to make plays then like I said above, the team has to consider not bringing him back.

[/QUOTE]

And here are ten characters so that I can post this.

[NorthCoast]

And here are ten characters so that I can post this.good stuff t.o. and some great points. On QB accuracy, could it be that the surgery has caused some sort of loss of feeling or numbness in the arm? Not totally, but enough that he has trouble with subtle control? Never had this kind of surgery so no clue whether nerves would be involved but it could explain why he has strength but trouble with accuracy. And knowing his personality this would not be something he would even disclose I think.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

good stuff t.o. and some great points. On QB accuracy, could it be that the surgery has caused some sort of loss of feeling or numbness in the arm? Not totally, but enough that he has trouble with subtle control? Never had this kind of surgery so no clue whether nerves would be involved but it could explain why he has strength but trouble with accuracy. And knowing his personality this would not be something he would even disclose I think.

I was wondering as well if it is residual effect of the surgery. If so, is it something that will heal in time, or is his accuracy done?

[Northern_Blitz]

I agree that this seems to be Ben's vision on offense, and similar to other new schemes, eventually it gets figured out. If the Steelers try to stick to this O then it will likely be one and done (maybe two and done but that doesn't rhyme) and little chance to make it even to the AFCCG. The good news is that a few adjustments and nobody has game film on the Steelers O. There is still a ton of talent on this team. I think the biggest question to find out is whether or not Ben is willing to absorb any more hits. It seems that the objective on offense right now is to keep the QB from being sacked (which is good) at the expense of making plays (which is bad). If Ben is unwilling to take a hit to make plays then like I said above, the team has to consider not bringing him back.
....[/QUOTE]

This.

Hopefully at least some of the crappy play has been due to the odd schedule too.

It think that's mostly a cop out, but if it's in player's heads maybe it means something.

Looking for a bounce back game against a good Bills team.

[Northern_Blitz]

good stuff t.o. and some great points. On QB accuracy, could it be that the surgery has caused some sort of loss of feeling or numbness in the arm? Not totally, but enough that he has trouble with subtle control? Never had this kind of surgery so no clue whether nerves would be involved but it could explain why he has strength but trouble with accuracy. And knowing his personality this would not be something he would even disclose I think.

I think he had issues with deep ball accuracy in his last full season.

Remember the "wi-fi" troubles?

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/10/07/Wi-Fi-connection-back-on-for-Ben-Roethlisberger-and-Antonio-Brown-Steelers-quarterback-receiver-Falcons/stories/201810070206

And maybe it was even worse that it looked (the accuracy, not the relationship) because AB was probably able to make up for some issues...because he was amazing despite being crazy.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I dunno, I think it's the system to a point. Ben looks to be getting rid of the ball asap.

Weren't we saying the same thing about mason last year (to a point)?

[flippy]

good stuff t.o. and some great points. On QB accuracy, could it be that the surgery has caused some sort of loss of feeling or numbness in the arm? Not totally, but enough that he has trouble with subtle control? Never had this kind of surgery so no clue whether nerves would be involved but it could explain why he has strength but trouble with accuracy. And knowing his personality this would not be something he would even disclose I think.

Ben would talk about it endlessly.

When there was talk about his bad knee this week, I almost had a flashback that we're going to get classic Ben as a result. Injuries are his tell that he's going to try and be heroic most of the time. And maybe passing past the LOS instead of behind it was that new heroism :)

[skyhawk]

Ben has been throwing harder than ever and with more velocity than ever. He just doesn't have an AB and a (then) Juju type of receiver to make plays on the ball and compete for it.

No one in the league could have gotten AB all his receptions as well as Ben. Give both players credit where credit is due. The current wide receiver bunch needs to step up and make those plays now. Sooooo many catchable balls. Sure, Ben could have made the pass more perfect but 99 pct of those balls dropped (and others) would have been made by AB or a young juju. I understand that's a pretty high bar. We were spoiled.

[feltdizz]

Ben has been throwing harder than ever and with more velocity than ever. He just doesn't have an AB and a (then) Juju type of receiver to make plays on the ball and compete for it.

No one in the league could have gotten AB all his receptions as well as Ben. Give both players credit where credit is due. The current wide receiver bunch needs to step up and make those plays now. Sooooo many catchable balls. Sure, Ben could have made the pass more perfect but 99 pct of those balls dropped (and others) would have been made by AB or a young juju. I understand that's a pretty high bar. We were spoiled.

why is JuJu dropping the ball now? AB caught most passes but he dropped a few as well. The fact that its happened to all the WR’s at the same time means something else is likely at play.

Jugs aren’t the same as catching from a QB. If they aren’t getting reps with the QB the answer is pretty obvious.

Young group of WR’s so we should all expect some growing pains from the young guys. Even Washington who is sure handed is bobbling his catches.

[hawaiiansteel]

why is JuJu dropping the ball now? AB caught most passes but he dropped a few as well. The fact that its happened to all the WR’s at the same time means something else is likely at play.

Jugs aren’t the same as catching from a QB. If they aren’t getting reps with the QB the answer is pretty obvious.


don't Rudolph and Dobbs throw in practice when Ben doesn't?

[Buzz]

don't Rudolph and Dobbs throw in practice when Ben doesn't?

Guess if Ben doesn't go, they just shut practice down :)

Or maybe the passes Rudolph and Dobbs throw are exceedingly easier to catch :D

[feltdizz]

don't Rudolph and Dobbs throw in practice when Ben doesn't?

I would think so but its a Covid year, Fitner implied its jugs but even if its Rudolph and Dobbs... it’s not Ben.

[NorthCoast]

Roethlisberger throws too hard. The other QBs have peepee arms.

:lol::lol: