Are Steelers Just Not That Good?

[flippy]

Washington was 4-7 coming into the game.

We rushed for 21 yards.

Ben throws for 5.8 YPA.

We couldn’t stop Washington on D in the 2nd half.

[SidSmythe]

Teams are expecting you to pass the ball and you still can't run.
The Defense is very good but its not going to carry you.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Washington has a solid front 7.

If you had to lose a game this was it.

Injuries piling up, as soon as Haden went down they attacked that side.

Play calling sucks, rivals Joe Walton.

Should get Pouncey, Nelson, Connor, and Haden back next week.

Night game, I will take the Steelers at night.

[SteelBucks]

We’re not good at this moment. Maybe the loss will push the right buttons. We can’t go limping into the playoffs with this.

[SteelBucks]

Washington has a solid front 7.

If you had to lose a game this was it.

Injuries piling up, as soon as Haden went down they attacked that side.

Play calling sucks, rivals Joe Walton.

Should get Pouncey, Nelson, Connor, and Haden back next week.

Night game, I will take the Steelers at night.

Any word on Spillane? We are getting really thin at LB.

[NorthCoast]

Teams are expecting you to pass the ball and you still can't run.
The Defense is very good but its not going to carry you.

9 guys up to defend the short pass puts a lot of bodies to get through on the line.
There are some fundamental flaws with this offense but not seeing easy solutions.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Not yet. I didn’t see the injury.

[Terrapin]

There has been exactly one team ever that could consistently throw the ball 60 times a game and still win. They had a coach named Bill and a QB named Tom. Ben, Tomlin, and Sphincter think they can do the same, but they're fooling themselves. Plus, NE was capable of running the ball when they wanted. We can't.

In order for their 'scheme' to work, absolutely everything needs to be perfect. Perfect throws, WRs can't drop balls, the line can't let anyone break up the timing, etc.

Add the injuries on defense, a punt returner that can't catch a punt, and the inept offense, and no, we're not a very good team.

[SteelBucks]

Not yet. I didn’t see the injury.

He went down by friendly fire. Was holding his knee and didn’t return.

[Eich]

9 guys up to defend the short pass puts a lot of bodies to get through on the line.
There are some fundamental flaws with this offense but not seeing easy solutions.

first thing I would try, is not doing the same thing over and over and over, expecting a different result.

we know how teams are going to defend this mess of an offense. Time for better tactics. Earn your salary Fichtner

[flippy]

We’re not good at this moment. Maybe the loss will push the right buttons. We can’t go limping into the playoffs with this.

I was thinking last game was our wake up call. I really feel like we’re in unleash hell mode now where we know we need a fix. It have no idea what to do.

[SteelBucks]

first thing I would try, is not doing the same thing over and over and over, expecting a different result.

we know how teams are going to defend this mess of an offense. Time for better tactics. Earn your salary Fichtner

That’s why this loss may be a blessing in disguise. It should force their hand. They can roll this out week after week and expect it to work. We’ve been flirting with disaster for about a month now.

[MCHammer]

To answer the question: the Steelers are a one dimensional offensive team with a good defense that can create turnovers. This team would be a playoff team most years and a super bowl contender this year because the league generally is weak. KC is overrated too. Mahommes is for real, but the team itself is overrated.

Our Achilles heel is obvious. It will likely cause us a loss in the playoffs. But hope springs eternal. Here’s hoping Ben has a run of great games come winter.

[NorthCoast]

Giants beat them by running to the outside. What did the Steelers do? Most runs were between the tackles.

[BURGH86STEEL]

People overreact after every loss. Cut this player. Bench that player. Coach should be fired. Palm to face.

WFT went after Hilton and failed most of the night. They some success exposing VW in pass coverage in the 2nd half.

The Steelers had opportunities. They blew it. The WFT made the key play in crunch time. Tough loss.

There are 4 games left. The Steelers will make the playoffs regardless of whatever happens for the remainder of the season.

[Buzz]

Giants beat them by running to the outside. What did the Steelers do? Most runs were between the tackles.

I was hopeful we would try to run McFarland to the outside, but did we even have one such play?

[NorthCoast]

To answer the question: the Steelers are a one dimensional offensive team with a good defense that can create turnovers. This team would be a playoff team most years and a super bowl contender this year because the league generally is weak. KC is overrated too. Mahommes is for real, but the team itself is overrated.

Our Achilles heel is obvious. It will likely cause us a loss in the playoffs. But hope springs eternal. Here’s hoping Ben has a run of great games come winter.

Roethlisberger can be perfect but can he catch a ball??

[SteelBucks]

Giants beat them by running to the outside. What did the Steelers do? Most runs were between the tackles.

Inside or outside there is nowhere to run. The offensive line isn’t getting it done run blocking. They’re losing in the trenches in a bad way.

[Buzz]

People overreact after every loss. Cut this player. Bench that player. Coach should be fired. Palm to face.

WFT went after Hilton and failed most of the night. They some success exposing VW in pass coverage in the 2nd half.

The Steelers had opportunities. They blew it. The WFT made the key play in crunch time. Tough loss.

There are 4 games left. The Steelers will make the playoffs regardless of whatever happens for the remainder of the season.

Assuming we make the playoffs (which would be an assumption at this point), unless we can correct some of our deficiencies, we'll be an early out.

[BURGH86STEEL]

To answer the question: the Steelers are a one dimensional offensive team with a good defense that can create turnovers. This team would be a playoff team most years and a super bowl contender this year because the league generally is weak. KC is overrated too. Mahommes is for real, but the team itself is overrated.

Our Achilles heel is obvious. It will likely cause us a loss in the playoffs. But hope springs eternal. Here’s hoping Ben has a run of great games come winter.
I don't think the league is weak. I think the league is more closely matched and more competitive than ever. Any team can win.

[NorthCoast]

3 pts in 2 and a half quarters

[BURGH86STEEL]

Assuming we make the playoffs (which would be an assumption at this point), unless we can correct some of our deficiencies, we'll be an early out.
You don't think the Steelers are going to make the playoffs? Every team has deficiencies.

It's anyone's guess which team will play well enough to win in the playoffs.

[NJ-STEELER]

they stunk, but aside from the over reactions. its just 1 loss that we inevitably got out of the way

the good.
at this moment we are still the # 1 seed.
even if we lose the #1 seed, covid crowds make it easier to play on the road

hopefully this game is a wake up call to some lackluster play the last few weeks.

The bad.
running game. Blame on both the RBs and the OL, we likely need to upgrade both

Losing bud. i'll give highsmith time but he did not look impressive. keyed in on him a few times rushing and he seems to make the same move every time

drops. as someone stated in another thread. looks to be just a lack of concentration/ not keeping the eyes on the ball while bringing in the catch

Vince williams in coverage. had someone on another board try to point out why vince shouldn't be a cap casualty (if it came down to it) at a cap savings of $6M next year.
hope he watched tonight's game

[NorthCoast]

they stunk, but aside from the over reactions. its just 1 loss that we inevitably got out of the way

the good.
at this moment we are still the # 1 seed.
even if we lose the #1 seed, covid crowds make it easier to play on the road

hopefully this game is a wake up call to some lackluster play the last few weeks.

The bad.
running game. Blame on both the RBs and the OL, we likely need to upgrade both

Losing bud. i'll give highsmith time but he did not look impressive. keyed in on him a few times rushing and he seems to make the same move every time

drops. as someone stated in another thread. looks to be just a lack of concentration/ not keeping the eyes on the ball while bringing in the catch

Vince williams in coverage. had someone on another board try to point out why vince shouldn't be a cap casualty (if it came down to it) at a cap savings of $6M next year.
hope he watched tonight's game

I thought Highsmith looked good. Set the edge well on runs. Couple of good tackles. It was his first NFL start, gotta cut him some slack. Probably was better than Dupree on his first start.

[SteelBucks]

they stunk, but aside from the over reactions. its just 1 loss that we inevitably got out of the way

the good.
at this moment we are still the # 1 seed.
even if we lose the #1 seed, covid crowds make it easier to play on the road

hopefully this game is a wake up call to some lackluster play the last few weeks.

The bad.
running game. Blame on both the RBs and the OL, we likely need to upgrade both

Losing bud. i'll give highsmith time but he did not look impressive. keyed in on him a few times rushing and he seems to make the same move every time

drops. as someone stated in another thread. looks to be just a lack of concentration/ not keeping the eyes on the ball while bringing in the catch

Vince williams in coverage. had someone on another board try to point out why vince shouldn't be a cap casualty (if it came down to it) at a cap savings of $6M next year.
hope he watched tonight's game

Nice level headed summary.

We’re going to need help at LB if Spillane is out for any length of time.
We’re dropping like flies on defense.

[NorthCoast]

21 yds rushing. Let's see, if I am a 5'9" RB I could fall forward 4X and gain that many yards.

[D Rock]

To answer the question: the Steelers are a one dimensional offensive team with a good defense that can create turnovers. This team would be a playoff team most years and a super bowl contender this year because the league generally is weak. KC is overrated too. Mahommes is for real, but the team itself is overrated.

Our Achilles heel is obvious. It will likely cause us a loss in the playoffs. But hope springs eternal. Here’s hoping Ben has a run of great games come winter.

Disagree on them being one dimensional on offense. I would argue they are zero dimensional.

They can't run, so that's obviously out. But just because they pass 50 times a game doesn't mean they are good at it. The passing game and scheme are lame.

This offense is zero dimensional, maybe with the ability to become one dimensional.

[MCHammer]

Roethlisberger can be perfect but can he catch a ball??

Drops are a problem for sure, but not THE problem. If the Steelers need to throw 45+ times per game, Ben will have very little room for error. This is a recipe for a first or second round playoff loss. A blind man could see it.

[hawaiiansteel]

second largest blown lead at home in franchise history.

[NorthCoast]

Drops are a problem for sure, but not THE problem. If the Steelers need to throw 45+ times per game, Ben will have very little room for error. This is a recipe for a first or second round playoff loss. A blind man could see it.

Sure. But if those drops the last 2 weeks were catches, we aren't having this discussion and the Steelers are undefeated.
They executed passing well for 10 games, now they aren't. Something's changed.

[Disco1981]

They're not winning squat with this Clown show as Coach! Got by far, your best OL on the bench all the time! Yes, It's Dotson...And yes he is...BY FAR! Decastro, and the rest....SUCK!

[feltdizz]

They're not winning squat with this Clown show as Coach! Got by far, your best OL on the bench all the time! Yes, It's Dotson...And yes he is...BY FAR! Decastro, and the rest....SUCK!


Damn.. I know you are feeling good right now.

11-1 and all this anger at Tomlin. lmao.

Reality, where art thou?

[feltdizz]

21 yds rushing. Let's see, if I am a 5'9" RB I could fall forward 4X and gain that many yards.

its obvious we have no desire to establish the run this year.

we paid Ben $35 mill. If he wants to throw it 50 times a game after sitting out all week then that’s what we have to deal with this year.

[Eich]

its obvious we have no desire to establish the run this year.

we paid Ben $35 mill. If he wants to throw it 50 times a game after sitting out all week then that’s what we have to deal with this year.

How do you establish the run when the opposing d-line lives in our backfield?

I think Ben would love a run game. I seriously doubt he likes what's going on right now.

[Ghost]

Anyone else concerned Tomlin was afraid to send out the kicker for a 45 yarder? I get he’s new but that shouldn’t even be an option at that distance in the NFL. No idea how long Bos is out with the hip but they need to be able to try from 45.

[NorthCoast]

Roethlisberger now has the 5th shortest YPA in the NFL (you don't even want to know the four QBs that are in front of him).

The Steelers offense has become not only one dimensional, but that dimension is shrinking badly. And the drops seem to be increasing with the shortening of the passes. Starting to fear that the QB, route selection and offense is getting into a rut that will be hard to break.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Roethlisberger now has the 5th shortest YPA in the NFL (you don't even want to know the four QBs that are in front of him).

The Steelers offense has become not only one dimensional, but that dimension is shrinking badly. And the drops seem to be increasing with the shortening of the passes. Starting to fear that the QB, route selection and offense is getting into a rut that will be hard to break.

I was a little hard on McFarland at the end of the game but seeing the pass from a different angle he had no chance to catch it. These short passes may be out of nessicity. I think Ben has lost his accuracy. The drops on the short passes may also be a derivative of less time to adjust to the ball. Timing.

[SteelBucks]

Anyone else concerned Tomlin was afraid to send out the kicker for a 45 yarder? I get he’s new but that shouldn’t even be an option at that distance in the NFL. No idea how long Bos is out with the hip but they need to be able to try from 45.

The history on the kid was he’s accurate with no leg. It almost looked like his 38 yarder struggled to get there. I hope Boz is back soon.

[KYPITTFAN]

From my view point its very simple. We can not run block!!!! Walter Payton, Franco Harris, name any great back and they could not get yards behind that blocking. Second is dropped passes. The game against the Ravens would not have been close had most of the dropped passes been caught. Last night we had at least 7 more drops. Those would have extended drives if they did not lead to points. Brady made a career out of those short passes. Its not the scheme it's the execution. While the defense is still good they are now very depleted. IF WE CAN'T run and use the clock they will be exposed.

[SteelBucks]

From my view point its very simple. We can not run block!!!! Walter Payton, Franco Harris, name any great back and they could not get yards behind that blocking. Second is dropped passes. The game against the Ravens would not have been close had most of the dropped passes been caught. Last night we had at least 7 more drops. Those would have extended drives if they did not lead to points. Brady made a career out of those short passes. Its not the scheme it's the execution. While the defense is still good they are now very depleted. IF WE CAN'T run and use the clock they will be exposed.

The run blocking is awful and it’s been a problem that’s festering for weeks. They’re losing in the trenches and the output is proof. No wonder we pass 50 times a game.

[Northern_Blitz]

You don't think the Steelers are going to make the playoffs? Every team has deficiencies.

It's anyone's guess which team will play well enough to win in the playoffs.

Yep...even if we lose out, we have 11 wins.

How many 11 win teams have missed the playoffs in the history of the NFL? My guess is that it has to be pretty close to 0.

And there are more playoff teams this year than ever before.

Remember that we would have made the playoffs last year (with Mason & Duck at QB) if we had the current playoff format.

[Northern_Blitz]

Teams are expecting you to pass the ball and you still can't run.
The Defense is very good but its not going to carry you.

This.

Being 1 dimensional really hurts this team IMO.

We're still a very good team.

But if a team can do well against a short passing attack (or we suddenly can't catch the ball), then we can't seem to counter that (because it doesn't seem like we're that good at running or deep passing).

IMO we just have to try to get that running game to something around average and this O is pretty scary (again).

Being able to catch the ball would also be a big plus.

[Northern_Blitz]

9 guys up to defend the short pass puts a lot of bodies to get through on the line.
There are some fundamental flaws with this offense but not seeing easy solutions.

Hit some deep passes?

Not sure this is really in Ben's wheel house anymore though. Deep ball accuracy has been an issue this year and in his last full season.

[Northern_Blitz]

People overreact after every loss. Cut this player. Bench that player. Coach should be fired. Palm to face.

WFT went after Hilton and failed most of the night. They some success exposing VW in pass coverage in the 2nd half.

The Steelers had opportunities. They blew it. The WFT made the key play in crunch time. Tough loss.

There are 4 games left. The Steelers will make the playoffs regardless of whatever happens for the remainder of the season.

This is true.

Hope we can use these games to right the O a bit.

[Northern_Blitz]

they stunk, but aside from the over reactions. its just 1 loss that we inevitably got out of the way

the good.
at this moment we are still the # 1 seed.
even if we lose the #1 seed, covid crowds make it easier to play on the road

hopefully this game is a wake up call to some lackluster play the last few weeks.

The bad.
running game. Blame on both the RBs and the OL, we likely need to upgrade both

Losing bud. i'll give highsmith time but he did not look impressive. keyed in on him a few times rushing and he seems to make the same move every time

drops. as someone stated in another thread. looks to be just a lack of concentration/ not keeping the eyes on the ball while bringing in the catch

Vince williams in coverage. had someone on another board try to point out why vince shouldn't be a cap casualty (if it came down to it) at a cap savings of $6M next year.
hope he watched tonight's game

I think Vince is pretty much gone even if he plays great down the stretch.

We'll need the cap room elsewhere IMO.

Maybe if he agrees to come back at vet min (after being cut I guess), but that almost never happens.

[Northern_Blitz]

second largest blown lead at home in franchise history.

If Renegade plays in an empty stadium, do the Steelers still get a sack / fumble / pick?

[Northern_Blitz]

Sure. But if those drops the last 2 weeks were catches, we aren't having this discussion and the Steelers are undefeated.
They executed passing well for 10 games, now they aren't. Something's changed.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's this:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/4ZgLPakqTajjVFOVqw/giphy.gif

[feltdizz]

How do you establish the run when the opposing d-line lives in our backfield?

I think Ben would love a run game. I seriously doubt he likes what's going on right now.

Doesn’t matter. This is one of the problems with people falling on love with the no huddle and Ben running the offense. He’s going to pass the ball.. a whole lot.

They even showed yesterday. 6 in the box, you run on that play and Ben decided to pass.

We have no problem throwing for negative yards in this offense half the time so we might as well run it a few more times.

[Northern_Blitz]

I was a little hard on McFarland at the end of the game but seeing the pass from a different angle he had no chance to catch it. These short passes may be out of nessicity. I think Ben has lost his accuracy. The drops on the short passes may also be a derivative of less time to adjust to the ball. Timing.

I was thinking about short passes and timing last week after DJ made a great adjustment to catch one.

But why would it only show up 2/3 of the way through the season?

And I also thought it could be lack of practice.

But then why did the passing game look good when Ben was on the Covid list?

It's a mystery to me, but I think it's the weather (which hopefully we train for)...or if we're lucky (?) maybe they put all the AFC teams in a bubble in Indy and we have perfect weather all game every game in the playoffs.

[Northern_Blitz]

The run blocking is awful and it’s been a problem that’s festering for weeks. They’re losing in the trenches and the output is proof. No wonder we pass 50 times a game.

We actually been pretty bad at running (by YPC) for years (even when Munch was here).

[flippy]

This is true.

Hope we can use these games to right the O a bit.

Wonder if we can take a few more snaps from under C, line up a FB in front of Conner, and run some more play action?

I kinda miss our game plans of 2 runs up the middle and then try to pass on 3rd down.

There’s no way to fix the running game if you don’t try and commit to running.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Wonder if we can take a few more snaps from under C, line up a FB in front of Conner, and run some more play action?

I kinda miss our game plans of 2 runs up the middle and then try to pass on 3rd down.

There’s no way to fix the running game if you don’t try and commit to running.

If I was Tomlin (and I'm not) I'd go with JJSS and Washington at WR, Watt at FB in front of Connor, and Vanimal at TE. That's what I would do.

[Starlifter]

Well I don’t know what the weather will be in Buffalo on Sunday - but if it’s a blizzard and we can’t run.......

[Northern_Blitz]

If I was Tomlin (and I'm not) I'd go with JJSS and Washington at WR, Watt at FB in front of Connor, and Vanimal at TE. That's what I would do.

Seems like we could run out of 5hat formation.

But I don't know how comfortable Ben is under center anymore.

And maybe the interior Oline just gets caved in anyway? I'm not good at watching Oline play. Anyone have info about this?

[Northern_Blitz]

Well I don’t know what the weather will be in Buffalo on Sunday - but if it’s a blizzard and we can’t run.......

To me this is the scary part about not being able to run. It will be cold in the playoffs (unless a bubble in a nice place).

[The Glory Days]

Washington was 4-7 coming into the game.

We rushed for 21 yards.

Ben throws for 5.8 YPA.

We couldn’t stop Washington on D in the 2nd half.

This is who we are and what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. Injuries have hindered us, but this is the best this team will be. This is the same team and same performance we've had for weeks. Anyone telling you different is selling something.

And Tomlin (and others) can talk about bouncing back. They can talk about getting fired up. They can talk about how this loss can/will be used for motivation. They are selling something as well.

We (including the players/coaches) have been pissed off over our performances the past few weeks. The team views those poor performances as losses. We played a crap game against a crap raisins team and THAT wasn't enough to light a fire against a second tier Washington team?

Enough with all the nonsense. We have had the same problems for nearly two seasons now. Don't tell me that we're going to fix things in December or that losing an undefeated record is going to be more inspiring than the struggles over the past 13 weeks.

The wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off. The wheels on the bus are falling off, all through December.

I've been saying this for about 10 weeks now...this team is not ready for prime time. They are the same team with the same warts. They are not a playoff caliber team.

And their style of play, ability (or lack thereof), and poor coaching are not sustainable. Some around here tried to argue with me that our impressive defensive stats actually mattered. They don't. I kept trying to tell everyone that our stats and record won't help us on game day. They didn't. Some tried to argue that we are good enough simply because we haven't lost a game. Well, we lost a game. We're not good enough.

I'm not hating on the team. I'm just a realist.

We won games in the past because of splash plays. That is not sustainable. You can't always rely on splash plays to bail you out.

And we lost because our offense is one-dimensional and anemic and our front 7 could not get enough consistent pressure on Alex Smith to bail out our secondary. When Washington needed to, they tore through our secondary like tissue paper. Why? Because our stats weren't playing. Terrible play calling/decisions didn't help either. We have arguably the best wr corp in the game. Putting a rookie running back out there on 4th down instead of one of our wr's is begging for a loss on the down. And Ben thinking he'd rather take a shot on a running back who's caught 3 passes all season just because of a mismatch is inexcusable. Actually, it's desperate.

And that's really what this team is, and has been all season. Desperate. They have no identity and no swag. The ONLY thing good about this team is stats and record. Unfortunately, neither of those matter. But at least we'll be able to tuck those under our pillows and keep us comfortable when we're watching other teams compete in the post season.

The game is played on the field, not on paper. And we're the best team on paper in the AFC. We've at least got that.

And before someone starts complaining about me showing up with my negativity after a loss, remember, I've been saying the same stuff after our "wins." This is one time I hate that I'm right. Unfortunately, all that Tomlin and his merry band of misfits needed to do to prove me wrong was to play a solid 60 minutes and beat a lesser team.

[Chucktownsteeler]

This is who we are and what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. Injuries have hindered us, but this is the best this team will be. This is the same team and same performance we've had for weeks. Anyone telling you different is selling something.

And Tomlin (and others) can talk about bouncing back. They can talk about getting fired up. They can talk about how this loss can/will be used for motivation. They are selling something as well.

We (including the players/coaches) have been pissed off over our performances the past few weeks. The team views those poor performances as losses. We played a crap game against a crap raisins team and THAT wasn't enough to light a fire against a second tier Washington team?

Enough with all the nonsense. We have had the same problems for nearly two seasons now. Don't tell me that we're going to fix things in December or that losing an undefeated record is going to be more inspiring than the struggles over the past 13 weeks.

The wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off. The wheels on the bus are falling off, all through December.

I've been saying this for about 10 weeks now...this team is not ready for prime time. They are the same team with the same warts. They are not a playoff caliber team.

And their style of play, ability (or lack thereof), and poor coaching are not sustainable. Some around here tried to argue with me that our impressive defensive stats actually mattered. They don't. I kept trying to tell everyone that our stats and record won't help us on game day. They didn't. Some tried to argue that we are good enough simply because we haven't lost a game. Well, we lost a game. We're not good enough.

I'm not hating on the team. I'm just a realist.

We won games in the past because of splash plays. That is not sustainable. You can't always rely on splash plays to bail you out.

And we lost because our offense is one-dimensional and anemic and our front 7 could not get enough consistent pressure on Alex Smith to bail out our secondary. When Washington needed to, they tore through our secondary like tissue paper. Why? Because our stats weren't playing. Terrible play calling/decisions didn't help either. We have arguably the best wr corp in the game. Putting a rookie running back out there on 4th down instead of one of our wr's is begging for a loss on the down. And Ben thinking he'd rather take a shot on a running back who's caught 3 passes all season just because of a mismatch is inexcusable. Actually, it's desperate.

And that's really what this team is, and has been all season. Desperate. They have no identity and no swag. The ONLY thing good about this team is stats and record. Unfortunately, neither of those matter. But at least we'll be able to tuck those under our pillows and keep us comfortable when we're watching other teams compete in the post season.

The game is played on the field, not on paper. And we're the best team on paper in the AFC. We've at least got that.

And before someone starts complaining about me showing up with my negativity after a loss, remember, I've been saying the same stuff after our "wins." This is one time I hate that I'm right. Unfortunately, all that Tomlin and his merry band of misfits needed to do to prove me wrong was to play a solid 60 minutes and beat a lesser team.

So we're not unleashing Hell in December?

[NorthCoast]

Hit some deep passes?

Not sure this is really in Ben's wheel house anymore though. Deep ball accuracy has been an issue this year and in his last full season.Not even talking deep passes. How about intermediate behind the LBs? Playing for YAC on every pass against good defenses isn't a sound strategy in my opinion.

[Northern_Blitz]

This is who we are and what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. Injuries have hindered us, but this is the best this team will be. This is the same team and same performance we've had for weeks. Anyone telling you different is selling something.

And Tomlin (and others) can talk about bouncing back. They can talk about getting fired up. They can talk about how this loss can/will be used for motivation. They are selling something as well.

We (including the players/coaches) have been pissed off over our performances the past few weeks. The team views those poor performances as losses. We played a crap game against a crap raisins team and THAT wasn't enough to light a fire against a second tier Washington team?

Enough with all the nonsense. We have had the same problems for nearly two seasons now. Don't tell me that we're going to fix things in December or that losing an undefeated record is going to be more inspiring than the struggles over the past 13 weeks.

The wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off. The wheels on the bus are falling off, all through December.

I've been saying this for about 10 weeks now...this team is not ready for prime time. They are the same team with the same warts. They are not a playoff caliber team.

And their style of play, ability (or lack thereof), and poor coaching are not sustainable. Some around here tried to argue with me that our impressive defensive stats actually mattered. They don't. I kept trying to tell everyone that our stats and record won't help us on game day. They didn't. Some tried to argue that we are good enough simply because we haven't lost a game. Well, we lost a game. We're not good enough.

I'm not hating on the team. I'm just a realist.

We won games in the past because of splash plays. That is not sustainable. You can't always rely on splash plays to bail you out.

And we lost because our offense is one-dimensional and anemic and our front 7 could not get enough consistent pressure on Alex Smith to bail out our secondary. When Washington needed to, they tore through our secondary like tissue paper. Why? Because our stats weren't playing. Terrible play calling/decisions didn't help either. We have arguably the best wr corp in the game. Putting a rookie running back out there on 4th down instead of one of our wr's is begging for a loss on the down. And Ben thinking he'd rather take a shot on a running back who's caught 3 passes all season just because of a mismatch is inexcusable. Actually, it's desperate.

And that's really what this team is, and has been all season. Desperate. They have no identity and no swag. The ONLY thing good about this team is stats and record. Unfortunately, neither of those matter. But at least we'll be able to tuck those under our pillows and keep us comfortable when we're watching other teams compete in the post season.

The game is played on the field, not on paper. And we're the best team on paper in the AFC. We've at least got that.

And before someone starts complaining about me showing up with my negativity after a loss, remember, I've been saying the same stuff after our "wins." This is one time I hate that I'm right. Unfortunately, all that Tomlin and his merry band of misfits needed to do to prove me wrong was to play a solid 60 minutes and beat a lesser team.

I think we need to get back to where we were earlier in the season at catching the ball and make small improvements in run and deep ball success.

If we can do that (at least 2 / 3), I think we can still contend for the SB.

But I can certainly understand someone not believing that we can make those improvements after the last few games.

I also think WSH and BAL aren't great matchups for us, but all playoff teams are tough matchups (in the AFC at least...the NFC seems to have a lot of bad teams...although we just lost to one of them).

Anyway, until we're done for the year I'm going to continue to believe that we are going to pull it out.

And my guess is that many on this board feel the same way. But dampening expectations helps deal with disappointments like the last few games (and they have been disappointing).

[Sword]

Bad playing calling
Receivers have to catch the ball
Have to run block better

Hate pass plays to the sideline or super short.....just to see them go nowhere....

[Ghost]

Of the 11 wins, 7 of them are against teams with losing records with none of those teams having more than 4 wins. Plus a wiped out Ravens team.

3 of 4 teams remaining all have 8 or 9 wins. We should get a good feel as to how we compete against teams heading to the playoffs.

[NorthCoast]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's this:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/4ZgLPakqTajjVFOVqw/giphy.gifGood one NB (and probably true!)

[Chucktownsteeler]

Good one NB (and probably true!)

Most of our receivers not named JJSS played in cold weather collegiate ball. I'm not buying it. It's a combination of inaccurate passing, quick slants, and trying to run before the secure the catch.

[Northern_Blitz]

Not even talking deep passes. How about intermediate behind the LBs? Playing for YAC on every pass against good defenses isn't a sound strategy in my opinion.

I'd be for this too.

[Northern_Blitz]

Most of our receivers not named JJSS played in cold weather collegiate ball. I'm not buying it. It's a combination of inaccurate passing, quick slants, and trying to run before the secure the catch.

I hope so because those seem like things that can get fixed (or revert back to where they were earlier in the season with some good practice).

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Last year, once the opposing defenses realized that Mason and Duck wouldn't throw intermediate or deep passes, they started bringing everyone closer to the LOS and because of this were better able to defend the run that much better as well. It looks like the same thing is happening now. Defenses are learning not to rush the passer either since Ben is releasing the ball so quickly so there are typically 9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS getting their hands up and flowing to the ball. If they are only going to rush 4 then the offense has to extend their time. Many weeks ago Ben threw a beautiful sluggo TD to Washington with a pump fake. There should be plenty of time to run plays like that against a four man rush and most defenders tight.

[flippy]

Last year, once the opposing defenses realized that Mason and Duck wouldn't throw intermediate or deep passes, they started bringing everyone closer to the LOS and because of this were better able to defend the run that much better as well. It looks like the same thing is happening now. Defenses are learning not to rush the passer either since Ben is releasing the ball so quickly so there are typically 9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS getting their hands up and flowing to the ball. If they are only going to rush 4 then the offense has to extend their time. Many weeks ago Ben threw a beautiful sluggo TD to Washington with a pump fake. There should be plenty of time to run plays like that against a four man rush and most defenders tight.

Maybe all of this is on purpose and the O will light people up come playoff time like we did during Ben's 1st SB run?

[NorthCoast]

Last year, once the opposing defenses realized that Mason and Duck wouldn't throw intermediate or deep passes, they started bringing everyone closer to the LOS and because of this were better able to defend the run that much better as well. It looks like the same thing is happening now. Defenses are learning not to rush the passer either since Ben is releasing the ball so quickly so there are typically 9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS getting their hands up and flowing to the ball. If they are only going to rush 4 then the offense has to extend their time. Many weeks ago Ben threw a beautiful sluggo TD to Washington with a pump fake. There should be plenty of time to run plays like that against a four man rush and most defenders tight.was thinking the exact same thing t.o. This offense is looking strangely familiar to last season (or maybe more correctly, the offensive failures are familiar).

[Disco1981]

Most of our receivers not named JJSS played in cold weather collegiate ball. I'm not buying it. It's a combination of inaccurate passing, quick slants, and trying to run before the secure the catch.

^^^^^ This... Combined with Ben hardly ever practicing...How the hell do you ever get accumemted, or get your timing down!

[Northern_Blitz]

Last year, once the opposing defenses realized that Mason and Duck wouldn't throw intermediate or deep passes, they started bringing everyone closer to the LOS and because of this were better able to defend the run that much better as well. It looks like the same thing is happening now. Defenses are learning not to rush the passer either since Ben is releasing the ball so quickly so there are typically 9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS getting their hands up and flowing to the ball. If they are only going to rush 4 then the offense has to extend their time. Many weeks ago Ben threw a beautiful sluggo TD to Washington with a pump fake. There should be plenty of time to run plays like that against a four man rush and most defenders tight.

I first noticed it this year in the DAL game when Romo kept saying "Dallas is in single high, expect Ben to burn them deep with a double move".

But I don't think we even tried after he was going on about it.

IIRC we had thrown several deep balls earlier that game that were pretty far off target.

We hit a nice one against Cincy.

And we do get the Joe Flacco PI call every now and again (which is useful).

But I wish we were more successful at the deep pass (and the run).

[Captain Lemming]

Last year, once the opposing defenses realized that Mason and Duck wouldn't throw intermediate or deep passes, they started bringing everyone closer to the LOS and because of this were better able to defend the run that much better as well. It looks like the same thing is happening now. Defenses are learning not to rush the passer either since Ben is releasing the ball so quickly so there are typically 9 guys within 5 yards of the LOS getting their hands up and flowing to the ball. If they are only going to rush 4 then the offense has to extend their time. Many weeks ago Ben threw a beautiful sluggo TD to Washington with a pump fake. There should be plenty of time to run plays like that against a four man rush and most defenders tight.

Best analysis yet on the reality of this team.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I saw a great fake pump by Ben last night. He may have to do more of it.

[Notleadpoisoned]

Of the 11 wins, 7 of them are against teams with losing records with none of those teams having more than 4 wins. Plus a wiped out Ravens team.

3 of 4 teams remaining all have 8 or 9 wins. We should get a good feel as to how we compete against teams heading to the playoffs.
I don’t think any of that really matters. The Jets were more than capable of beating a good Raiders team on Sunday. And of course the Raiders are obviously capable of beating the Chiefs. The line between the 32nd worst team in the NFL and the defending Super Bowl Champions is thinner now than it has ever been.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I don’t think any of that really matters. The Jets were more than capable of beating a good Raiders team on Sunday. And of course the Raiders are obviously capable of beating the Chiefs. The line between the 32nd worst team in the NFL and the defending Super Bowl Champions is thinner now than it has ever been.

And any perceived home field advantage is pretty much out the window.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I saw a great fake pump by Ben last night. He may have to do more of it.

If you think back to "vintage Ben" he was known as being great with the pump fake. Now he rarely uses it because he is throwing so quickly. D has adjusted to this. Current defensive schemes should dictate that Ben now use his time to find something else.

[NJ-STEELER]

How do you establish the run when the opposing d-line lives in our backfield?

I think Ben would love a run game. I seriously doubt he likes what's going on right now.

i would have thought that was pretty obvious with the amount of times they tried running it in at the goal line last night and couldn't gain a yard. we've seen a lot of that all year.

the OL gets no push, and the running back core leaves a lot to be desired

[NJ-STEELER]

I thought Highsmith looked good. Set the edge well on runs. Couple of good tackles. It was his first NFL start, gotta cut him some slack. Probably was better than Dupree on his first start.

i am giving him time, he'll need that time to develop some pass rushing moves. set the edge all you want on running plays, but if he doesn't develop into a pass rusher he likely wont be here long.
this defense we run requires pressure from the OLBs

[Northern_Blitz]

If you think back to "vintage Ben" he was known as being great with the pump fake. Now he rarely uses it because he is throwing so quickly. D has adjusted to this. Current defensive schemes should dictate that Ben now use his time to find something else.

He also used to be very good at PA. But I don't think we line up under center much anymore.

[NorthCoast]

He also used to be very good at PA. But I don't think we line up under center much anymore.Fun stat: Roethlisberger's passer rating when under center = 115, in shotgun = 98.4

[Northern_Blitz]

Fun stat: Roethlisberger's passer rating when under center = 115, in shotgun = 98.4

That's interesting.

Do you know the breakdown. I feel like we don't do much under center anymore.

But I don't actually look at the breakdown, so I could easily be wrong.

[NorthCoast]

That's interesting.

Do you know the breakdown. I feel like we don't do much under center anymore.

But I don't actually look at the breakdown, so I could easily be wrong.Your feelings would be spot on;

2020:
Attempts in shotgun = 409
Attempts under center = 19

(this may not include the last two games, but fairly certain it won't change much...:))

[Steelwolf]

Teams smell blood now and will be interesting to see how they respond against Buffalo. How this season unfolds ill ride with it

[Northern_Blitz]

Your feelings would be spot on;

2020:
Attempts in shotgun = 409
Attempts under center = 19

(this may not include the last two games, but fairly certain it won't change much...:))

Thanks NorthCoast!

I think I would have underpredicted the actual rate of attempts in shotgun (>95%).

Do you mind sharing where you find that info?

I think it might be interesting to look at (without having to pester you).

[NorthCoast]

Thanks NorthCoast!

Do you mind sharing where you find that info?

I think it might be interesting to look at (without having to pester you).

Some from;
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/
Some from;
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/
Some from;
nextgenstats.nfl.com

(note first two have gone to fee based so you'll have to pony up $ for the good stuff... which I am finding harder to justify given my insane media bill each month)

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

He also used to be very good at PA. But I don't think we line up under center much anymore.

I agree. Always lining up in the gun limits the number of options that the D has to worry about defending.

[Captain Lemming]

Your feelings would be spot on;

2020:
Attempts in shotgun = 409
Attempts under center = 19

(this may not include the last two games, but fairly certain it won't change much...:))

What this means is that "when" we are under center we are so predictably going to run teams can essentially assume this...the rare pass would be extremely effective. We do it so rarely it is worth that risk to the defense. So just pass more from under center right?

However if we passed more routinely from under center even as little as 20 percent, teams would need to play more honest. That advantage would go away.

[Northern_Blitz]

Some from;
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/
Some from;
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/
Some from;
nextgenstats.nfl.com

(note first two have gone to fee based so you'll have to pony up $ for the good stuff... which I am finding harder to justify given my insane media bill each month)

Thanks.

I'm pretty cheap (and avoid recurring payments as much as I can), so I guess it's nexgenstats for me.

[Northern_Blitz]

What this means is that "when" we are under center we are so predictably going to run teams can essentially assume this...the rare pass would be extremely effective. We do it so rarely it is worth that risk to the defense. So just pass more from under center right?

However if we passed more routinely from under center even as little as 20 percent, teams would need to play more honest. That advantage would go away.

I think the worry here is that Ben would get squashed.

Or maybe that he doesn't feel comfortable with his back to the D anymore?

I've assume that older QBs tend to line up in the gun more.

But I also agree that we need to do some things that make us less predictable.

[NorthCoast]

"Imposing your will".... gone from the playbook.

.....and that dreaded word; predictable. Where is Canada's influence? Yeah, they do some window-dressing pre-snap motion but it's been almost all passing regardless. When they did have pre-snap motion I noticed the defense hardly moved.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Your feelings would be spot on;

2020:
Attempts in shotgun = 409
Attempts under center = 19

(this may not include the last two games, but fairly certain it won't change much...:))

Wonder what it took on those 19 snaps under C. Were they mostly goalline? Short yardage? Audibles from the gun to under center? Victory formation? Ahhhhh, that must be it.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Ben loves the 5 wide set. He has 5 WRs locked in 1-on-1 coverage and feels at least 1 of them will come open.

[NorthCoast]

Ben loves the 5 wide set. He has 5 WRs locked in 1-on-1 coverage and feels at least 1 of them will come open.that's ok, but throwing it 2,3, 4 yds from the LOS isn't going to be successful in the long run. I am hoping he comes around to realizing his game isn't going to work ad infinitum. This is where the HC and OC need to step in and force some changes. But honestly, Roethlisberger is not even on the A- or B- list of team problems.

[flippy]

Your feelings would be spot on;

2020:
Attempts in shotgun = 409
Attempts under center = 19

(this may not include the last two games, but fairly certain it won't change much...:))

Thanks for finding those numbers. I've been thinking about adding more snaps under center, play action, 7 step drops, and trying to push it down field a little. It feels like the took Arians' playbook and made everything the opposite and I feel like we need some middle ground.

I did notice the trends away from snaps under center. I think it helps get rid of the ball quicker. Almost no one is under center that much. Maybe it's footwork issues for an older QB. When I think of quick releases in the old days, I picture Drew Brees going to the 3 step drop and releasing the ball as soon as his back foot hit the ground. Ben might take 3 seconds for a 3 step drop???? But it's the new normal, so I'm not even sure Ben can't do it anymore.

Although, when I think back to play action, I wish Ben learned a little from good ole Bruce Gradkowski. He was a magician with the PA. I still remember watching him at Heinz as a Raider from a mere few feet behind him in the end zone on a couple series, and I couldn't ever tell if he handed the ball or kept it. And I was behind the LOS and it should have been visible where he was hiding the ball and I swear it wasn't.

Ben's best go to fake is his pump fake. Especially when he looks like he's about to launch a bomb and pulls it back. No one else does it as well.

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben loves the 5 wide set. He has 5 WRs locked in 1-on-1 coverage and feels at least 1 of them will come open.

I think most teams will have trouble defending us in this set because we have a very deep group of pass catchers.

JuJu / DJ / Claypool / Washington / Ebron.

That's a lot of guys who can make plays and are hard to cover.

We just need one of those guys to have a good matchup (and to catch the ball).

But I'd like it if we could have success at more than 1 thing (especially since that thing is faltering with the drops).

[Northern_Blitz]

Thanks for finding those numbers. I've been thinking about adding more snaps under center, play action, 7 step drops, and trying to push it down field a little. It feels like the took Arians' playbook and made everything the opposite and I feel like we need some middle ground.

I did notice the trends away from snaps under center. I think it helps get rid of the ball quicker. Almost no one is under center that much. Maybe it's footwork issues for an older QB. When I think of quick releases in the old days, I picture Drew Brees going to the 3 step drop and releasing the ball as soon as his back foot hit the ground. Ben might take 3 seconds for a 3 step drop???? But it's the new normal, so I'm not even sure Ben can't do it anymore.

Although, when I think back to play action, I wish Ben learned a little from good ole Bruce Gradkowski. He was a magician with the PA. I still remember watching him at Heinz as a Raider from a mere few feet behind him in the end zone on a couple series, and I couldn't ever tell if he handed the ball or kept it. And I was behind the LOS and it should have been visible where he was hiding the ball and I swear it wasn't.

Ben's best go to fake is his pump fake. Especially when he looks like he's about to launch a bomb and pulls it back. No one else does it as well.

Honestly, it looks so real that I sometimes wonder if he's only making the decision halfway and just has monster hands / grip strength.

[Northern_Blitz]

Here's a good video from Alex D at the Depot showing some of the stuff we've been talking about in many of these threads (being more predictable, D's keying in on stuff).

I'm a bit hopeful that we'll do better this week. With the short turnaround after the Bal game, there probably wasn't much time t adapt.

Hoping that changes for this week against the Bills and we have a more varied pass attack. And maybe at least keep a back in on ___ and short.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80R1o424dY

[NorthCoast]

Two man rush by BAL and DD ends up on his butt...knocked over like a bowling ball.

[NorthCoast]

My other comment on this; I hope the Steelers don't have the attitude of 'we do what we do' on offense. These are professional opponents looking to stop what you do well. Not every team will have the players to do it, but it's clear that unless the Steelers offense makes some changes it's going to get harder and harder to execute. Batted balls are drive killers. Tackles short of the sticks are drive killers.

[feltdizz]

My other comment on this; I hope the Steelers don't have the attitude of 'we do what we do' on offense. These are professional opponents looking to stop what you do well. Not every team will have the players to do it, but it's clear that unless the Steelers offense makes some changes it's going to get harder and harder to execute. Batted balls are drive killers. Tackles short of the sticks are drive killers.

its hard to defend against batted balls. I pointed it out earlier in the season and was met with skepticism. Its definitely an issue but there isn’t much we can do about it. Guys no they can’t get to Ben so they sag and jump.

[feltdizz]

As for the actual title of this thread. Yeah, I’m not sure we are as good as our record but we are still a good team.

We could easily buy 9-3 but we found ways to win ugly. I’m not into donating victories but if we dropped one of those ugly wins earlier in the year I wonder if expectations would be adjusted a bit.

Then again, I’m seeing teams like KC win ugly and no one mentions it as an issue of concern.

One thing I noticed on here and in real life is my annoying and pessimistic friends definitely feel vindicated after this loss like they knew it all along. So weird for people to pat themselves on the back after seeing a team win 11 games like they are Nostradamus.

[NorthCoast]

its hard to defend against batted balls. I pointed it out earlier in the season and was met with skepticism. Its definitely an issue but there isn’t much we can do about it. Guys no they can’t get to Ben so they sag and jump.They weren't a problem before which means something can be done to stop/reduce them.

[Northern_Blitz]

They weren't a problem before which means something can be done to stop/reduce them.

An interesting point on yesterday's terrible podcast: We need the O-Line to be more physical and punish DL that jump to bat balls down.

Let them know there is a physical price to pay if you leave your feet.

This seems like a good idea. Along with throwing more intermediate and deep passes...maybe after pumping those same DL so they give up on the pass rush?

While I'm glad that we have a more "normal" week to prepare, it does suck to wait for the next game because I want to see if we can make good adjustments.

[feltdizz]

They weren't a problem before which means something can be done to stop/reduce them.

Not sure this is true. I think since we changed to a short passing game its highlighted more but its not like it never happened with Ben until this year.

Tried to find a stat for previous years but couldn’t find one. Just wondering if its happening more or if its the same ratio given Ben is passing 50 times a game now.

The same guy batting 3 passes is one game is definitely a problem. He was known for this and we seemed like we didn’t adjust.

[NorthCoast]

An interesting point on yesterday's terrible podcast: We need the O-Line to be more physical and punish DL that jump to bat balls down.

Let them know there is a physical price to pay if you leave your feet.

This seems like a good idea. Along with throwing more intermediate and deep passes...maybe after pumping those same DL so they give up on the pass rush?

While I'm glad that we have a more "normal" week to prepare, it does suck to wait for the next game because I want to see if we can make good adjustments.All comes back to the OL just not performing well enough. They can't practice in pads as much, very tough to stay in game shape without reps. Defenses are also being smart, sometimes they are dropping to where an OL is not allowed to be on a pass play.

[NorthCoast]

Not sure this is true. I think since we changed to a short passing game its highlighted more but its not like it never happened with Ben until this year.Roethlisberger attempted a career high 675 passes in 2018. I don't think he had anywhere near the number of batted balls that season.

[feltdizz]

Ben taking the blame for everything wrong with the offense. Its noble of him but the one that I think he is spot on about is audibling out of running plays too
much.

105 passes when leading in 7 out of the last 8 quarters is just too much IMO. Burn some clock, make the defense work a bit more and use the PA.

We also need to get that motion back before the snap.

Sandlot works until it doesn’t...

Also said this on Wed. when he doesn’t practice. Av and DD also had the day off even though they weren’t injured.

[feltdizz]

Roethlisberger attempted a career high 675 passes in 2018. I don't think he had anywhere near the number of batted balls that season.

would love to find out that stat for confirmation.

[NorthCoast]

As for the actual title of this thread. Yeah, I’m not sure we are as good as our record but we are still a good team.

We could easily buy 9-3 but we found ways to win ugly. I’m not into donating victories but if we dropped one of those ugly wins earlier in the year I wonder if expectations would be adjusted a bit.

Then again, I’m seeing teams like KC win ugly and no one mentions it as an issue of concern.

One thing I noticed on here and in real life is my annoying and pessimistic friends definitely feel vindicated after this loss like they knew it all along. So weird for people to pat themselves on the back after seeing a team win 11 games like they are Nostradamus.To the OP, it's not that the Steelers are not good. It's that this current scheme has been figured out. This is what good opponents do. The real test for how good the Steelers are is how well are they able to change who they are to overcome what defenses are doing. We started seeing a little of that against WFT with more passes to the RB (in my mind this is key). Unfortunately they probably didn't have enough time to put together a whole lot of stuff after the Ravens game.

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben taking the blame for everything wrong with the offense. Its noble of him but the one that I think he is spot on about is audibling out of running plays too
much.

105 passes when leading in 7 out of the last 8 quarters is just too much IMO. Burn some clock, make the defense work a bit more and use the PA.

We also need to get that motion back before the snap.

Sandlot works until it doesn’t...

Also said this on Wed. when he doesn’t practice. Av and DD also had the day off even though they weren’t injured.

I think the drops are mostly on the people trying to catch the ball.

I think the running game is mostly on the O-Line (and maybe that's why we're calling running plays off).

And I think leaning so heavily on short passes (and being in shotgun so much) is on Ben. The question I have is more about whether we have so much short passing because he's lost deep ball accuracy or not. Hopefully we find this out by calling more deeper passes.

And even if we don't have the ability to connect deep anymore (although we still get the J.Flacco special now and again), maybe we can still be successful because we have a deep group of pass catchers. They just have to catch the passes that are thrown to them.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

its hard to defend against batted balls. I pointed it out earlier in the season and was met with skepticism. Its definitely an issue but there isn’t much we can do about it. Guys no they can’t get to Ben so they sag and jump.

The reason teams have been so successful batting down balls is because they are sacrificing rushing the passer in order to "sag and jump". The remedy is to take the extra time given to run deeper routes. The trajectory of a 15-20 yard pass is much higher than that of a 5 yard pass, and the D is giving you time to get those guys open. Once the D adjusts to that, then it re-opens your short passing game.

[hawaiiansteel]

The reason teams have been so successful batting down balls is because they are sacrificing rushing the passer in order to "sag and jump". The remedy is to take the extra time given to run deeper routes. The trajectory of a 15-20 yard pass is much higher than that of a 5 yard pass, and the D is giving you time to get those guys open. Once the D adjusts to that, then it re-opens your short passing game.

let's see if Fichtner adjusts...

[NorthCoast]

I think the drops are mostly on the people trying to catch the ball.

I think the running game is mostly on the O-Line (and maybe that's why we're calling running plays off).

And I think leaning so heavily on short passes (and being in shotgun so much) is on Ben. The question I have is more about whether we have so much short passing because he's lost deep ball accuracy or not. Hopefully we find this out by calling more deeper passes.

And even if we don't have the ability to connect deep anymore (although we still get the J.Flacco special now and again), maybe we can still be successful because we have a deep group of pass catchers. They just have to catch the passes that are thrown to them.The deep ball threats are Washington, who hasn't played all that much, and Claypool, who in my view has struggled since getting some early (and easy) success. Not sure if it is 'rookie wall' or more likely defenses are playing him like the legitimate threat that he is and he hasn't adjusted his game. It will come but maybe not this season.

[flippy]

Here's a good video from Alex D at the Depot showing some of the stuff we've been talking about in many of these threads (being more predictable, D's keying in on stuff).

I'm a bit hopeful that we'll do better this week. With the short turnaround after the Bal game, there probably wasn't much time t adapt.

Hoping that changes for this week against the Bills and we have a more varied pass attack. And maybe at least keep a back in on ___ and short.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80R1o424dY

Amazing how much pressure those teams seemed to be getting with 3 man rushes. Seems like Ben should have more time and a comfortable pocket to allow guys to get downfield and make some plays.

Even if we were targeted 5 more yards down the field it would open things up. There's just too little field to defend and that's what really jumps out here.

If memory serves correct, Ben's always seem to have trouble passing when teams drop 8.

[NJ-STEELER]

Here's a good video from Alex D at the Depot showing some of the stuff we've been talking about in many of these threads (being more predictable, D's keying in on stuff).

I'm a bit hopeful that we'll do better this week. With the short turnaround after the Bal game, there probably wasn't much time t adapt.

Hoping that changes for this week against the Bills and we have a more varied pass attack. And maybe at least keep a back in on ___ and short.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80R1o424dY


this is happening more and more through out the league.

mahomes got 3 balls batted down Sunday night from the same defensive lineman

[NorthCoast]

Amazing how much pressure those teams seemed to be getting with 3 man rushes. Seems like Ben should have more time and a comfortable pocket to allow guys to get downfield and make some plays.

Even if we were targeted 5 more yards down the field it would open things up. There's just too little field to defend and that's what really jumps out here.

If memory serves correct, Ben's always seem to have trouble passing when teams drop 8.You're right flippy. That was my point on the BAL 2 man rush and DD ends up on his back side.... weak OL.

[flippy]

Seriously, how lucky did we get in those 1st 11 games?

[Northern_Blitz]

Seriously, how lucky did we get in those 1st 11 games?

I don't think it was luck.

I think it was (1) very good D and (2) teams not realizing that we were 1 dimensional on O.

Then we had a bunch of injuries on D (although I still think we played well last night on D) and opposition realizing they didn't have to really defend deep balls or runs.

We are good at the thing(s) we're good at on O. But it seems like we're very bad at everything else. If we could just get something else up to average, I think we'd have much more success.

[Disco1981]

I don't think it was luck.

I think it was (1) very good D and (2) teams not realizing that we were 1 dimensional on O.

Then we had a bunch of injuries on D (although I still think we played well last night on D) and opposition realizing they didn't have to really defend deep balls or runs.

We are good at the thing(s) we're good at on O. But it seems like we're very bad at everything else. If we could just get something else up to average, I think we'd have much more success.

Spot on plus...The Injuries now, more than anything are derailing a once great season...Ben's not right, He is a game manager...Throw the ball 5 yards...

But slinging it every down, no run game, no OL, TE and WR's can't catch, FITCHNER, Bush and Bud, Haden...And Dip**** at the Top...

This is not good!

[flippy]

Spot on plus...The Injuries now, more than anything are derailing a once great season...Ben's not right, He is a game manager...Throw the ball 5 yards...

But slinging it every down, no run game, no OL, TE and WR's can't catch, FITCHNER, Bush and Bud, Haden...And Dip**** at the Top...

This is not good!

I do wonder about the injuries and their effect.

I don't think much has changed other than the players available and I was really asking, how thin was our margin of error? So thin that a couple of next men up and we're on the other side of that fine line.

Usually by this point in the season, we're getting better, so why such a sharp fall off now?

Did the injuries hurt that much? Has Covid and the recent scheduled fudged us up?

We've got so many key FAs coming up at season end, we need to get this figured out cause we're on the verge of being in the 1980s again.

I remember back then, many were saying those 80s years were some of Noll's best coaching seasons. Sounds a little familiar.

[Eich]

let's see if Fichtner adjusts...

LOL

10 characters

[feltdizz]

Seriously, how lucky did we get in those 1st 11 games?

our defense made a lot of plays in a lot of those games.

[NorthCoast]

our defense made a lot of plays in a lot of those games.The defense kept BUF under 20 pts. That's good enough for a win. You can only do so much with 3rd string players. This was a game where the offense​ needed to help the defense out and they laid an egg.

[Steel Maniac]

The defense kept BUF under 20 pts. That's good enough for a win. You can only do so much with 3rd string players. This was a game where the offense​ needed to help the defense out and they laid an egg.

Hey, look on the bright side..We've got another double digit 10 + win season.

[Northern_Blitz]

I do wonder about the injuries and their effect.

I don't think much has changed other than the players available and I was really asking, how thin was our margin of error? So thin that a couple of next men up and we're on the other side of that fine line.

Usually by this point in the season, we're getting better, so why such a sharp fall off now?

Did the injuries hurt that much? Has Covid and the recent scheduled fudged us up?

We've got so many key FAs coming up at season end, we need to get this figured out cause we're on the verge of being in the 1980s again.

I remember back then, many were saying those 80s years were some of Noll's best coaching seasons. Sounds a little familiar.

I think the margin of error is always going to be thin in leagues with a salary cap.

And we lost two pro-bowl caliber players from the LB corps (although I guess that's more likely to happen when you have 3 pro-bowl caliber players on a unit of 4 guys).

Maybe the sliver lining on this is that our current margin of loss is also pretty thin. Although if Fieler and Dotson are both out for the season, I think the o-line play will get even worse.

[feltdizz]

Hey, look on the bright side..We've got another double digit 10 + win season.

Would you prefer a 10 loss season? Its not over yet and honestly, I think we overachieved so far this season and 13-3 or 12-4 would’ve been seen as a successful season by most before the season started.

[NorthCoast]

Kinda strange listening to the media talkin all about the upstart Browns and barely mentioning the Steelers current slide.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Kinda strange listening to the media talkin all about the upstart Browns and barely mentioning the Steelers current slide.

Both the Steelers and the Browns (through no fault of their own) have benefitted from a soft schedule this year. Let's see what the Browns do tonight.

[Northern_Blitz]

Would you prefer a 10 loss season? Its not over yet and honestly, I think we overachieved so far this season and 13-3 or 12-4 would’ve been seen as a successful season by most before the season started.

I absolutely wouldn't prefer it.

But there was something liberating about having no real expectations last season.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Would you prefer a 10 loss season? Its not over yet and honestly, I think we overachieved so far this season and 13-3 or 12-4 would’ve been seen as a successful season by most before the season started.

if we ever want Ben's replacement we'll need a few 4-12 or worse records.

[Steel Maniac]

if we ever want Ben's replacement we'll need a few 4-12 or worse records.

Or we just give almost our entire draft to a team with the #1 pick. For a franchise QB like Trevor Lawrence , I’d do it.

[hawaiiansteel]

Or we just give almost our entire draft to a team with the #1 pick. For a franchise QB like Trevor Lawrence , I’d do it.

just shows how little you know.

we could trade every single draft pick we have and get nowhere the # 1 selection that Trevor Lawrence will be drafted at.

[Northern_Blitz]

Or we just give almost our entire draft to a team with the #1 pick. For a franchise QB like Trevor Lawrence , I’d do it.

We will have so many holes this year that this wouldn't be a good idea.

And we'll have a low pick so no one would make that trade for our whole draft and keep their job.

[KYPITTFAN]

There is only one team that's going to be happy at seasons end all 31 other teams will be disappointed. I very much hope the Steelers are the happy one's but we WILL be in the playoff's when others are watching and we WERE the talk of the league for 11 straight weeks. It's been a good season.

[Oviedo]

There is only one team that's going to be happy at seasons end all 31 other teams will be disappointed. I very much hope the Steelers are the happy one's but we WILL be in the playoff's when others are watching and we WERE the talk of the league for 11 straight weeks. It's been a good season.

Yes. That is the way of the world. The key is to give yourself a chance by getting into the playoffs. We have done that. Unfortunately too many lack perspective and are unrealistic in that winning the Super Bowl is all that matters. Of course all teams want that but the best you have is one out of thirty two chance.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yes. That is the way of the world. The key is to give yourself a chance by getting into the playoffs. We have done that. Unfortunately too many lack perspective and are unrealistic in that winning the Super Bowl is all that matters. Of course all teams want that but the best you have is one out of thirty two chance.

I don't think I generally fall into this way of thinking.

But this year the great start and the fact that I think we're going to lose a fair amount of talented players in the off season makes it harder.

It feels like our last good chance to get another one (potentially in a fairly long time).

[NorthCoast]

I don't think I generally fall into this way of thinking.

But this year the great start and the fact that I think we're going to lose a fair amount of talented players in the off season makes it harder.

It feels like our last good chance to get another one (potentially in a fairly long time).I'll take the brighter view by looking at how the 'Phins have turned things around in a short time. Yes, it took a huge purge last year but they are suddenly a good looking team.

[Northern_Blitz]

I'll take the brighter view by looking at how the 'Phins have turned things around in a short time. Yes, it took a huge purge last year but they are suddenly a good looking team.

I'll cross my fingers.

And while this iteration of Miami's turn around looks pretty good (although I think they miss the playoffs this year), it's been a long time coming for Miami fans.

There were pretty good making the playoffs in the 90s 7/10, but have only made the playoffs in 4/19 years that start with a 2. Imagine some posters here if that was our situation...

Part of that is that Brady was very good and beat the crap out of that division year in and year out.

Hoping that doesn't happen with some of the young QB talent in our division (although maybe it means that we'll be the only one with a good young QB at some point going up against guys on market value contracts).

I think we're not used to that kind of thing after being spoiled for 30 some odd years.