Mark Madden: Sure, the Steelers are undefeated but skepticism is warranted

[hawaiiansteel]

Mark Madden: Sure, the Steelers are undefeated but skepticism is warranted

MARK MADDEN | Friday, December 4, 2020

The Steelers are 11-0.

It’s a weak 11-0.

That sounds (is) absurd. But the Steelers have three wins of much note. Beating Daniel Jones, Jeff Driskel, Carson Wentz, Garrett Gilbert, Jake Luton and Robert Griffin III doesn’t add up to a championship-level resume. Those victories against rotten quarterbacks duly noted, the Steelers also beat a bad coach (Bill O’Brien) and perennially lousy Cincinnati.

Heck, defeating Baker Mayfield isn’t all that dazzling. But Cleveland is somehow 8-3.

Skeptics unimpressed by the Steelers got a lot of ammunition Wednesday when the Steelers barely got by Baltimore’s JV. For an easy game, it was really difficult.

The Steelers never looked like they would lose, but consider three big plays: Joe Haden’s pick-six, Minkah Fitzpatrick’s breakup to deny Baltimore a go-ahead touchdown at the end of the first half, and James Washington’s third-down catch in traffic that let the Steelers keep the ball late.

Eliminate any of those, and the Steelers could very easily have lost to a Ravens team that only dressed 36 players, with eight of them making their NFL debut.

How would that performance fare against Kansas City?

It’s not too soon to wonder. After starting 11-0, anything less than making the AFC Championship Game would be disastrous. Not winning a playoff game makes the season a total bust. That applies even (and especially) if the Steelers go 16-0.

Rescheduling Thursday’s game three times distracted and disrupted. That doesn’t matter. The Ravens were crippled and easy to look past. That doesn’t matter, either.

Mike Tomlin and Ben Roethlisberger know that. Each was angry after Thursday’s win. (Roethlisberger was also mad at the NFL for making the Steelers play a “doubleheader.”)

Problems keep piling up. Outside linebacker Bud Dupree is out for the season with a torn ACL. The Steelers defense is built on speed and aggression. Dupree brought plenty of both, as did inside ‘backer Devin Bush, also done ‘til ’21.

Fitzpatrick’s speed, savvy and excellence in the middle of the field have helped cover Bush’s absence. Robert Spillane has literally filled Bush’s spot and done fine. Rookie Alex Highsmith will replace Dupree. Highsmith has looked OK in limited duty, but giving a rookie more snaps can be a slippery slope. That said, it’s a simple job. Ola Adeniyi will figure in, too.

The receivers dropped between 5-10 balls Thursday depending on your definition. That’s hopefully temporary, because those don’t look good on TikTok.

It’s trouble if the receivers don’t get more sure-handed, because the Steelers’ offense relies almost exclusively on passing. The running game is feeble and on life support. Roethlisberger seems determined to pull the plug, or maybe smother it with a pillow.

In five of the Steelers’ last six games, Roethlisberger has thrown 42 times or more. He was 36 for 51 for 266 yards Thursday. That’s a good day if half the drops get caught.

In those six games, the Steelers have attempted to pass on 68% of their offensive plays. That’s akin to 2018, when they did so on 70% of their snaps.

That didn’t work in ’18: The Steelers went 9-6-1 and missed the playoffs. It’s working this year against foes like Luton and Griffin.

Will it work in the postseason? Would it work against Patrick Mahomes?

Not if there are 5-10 drops, it won’t. Thursday’s mess included three red-zone drops. That’s suicide against a decent foe.

It’s popular to say the short pass can replace the run. In many respects, that’s true. The Steelers prove that by ranking second in the NFL for time of possession.

But you need to convert a few short-yardage downs on the ground, especially near the goal line where the passing game has less room to work with.

On Thursday, the Steelers had six plays where it was third or fourth down and with 2 yards needed or less. The Steelers passed five times, converting once. The Steelers made the sticks on their only try running the ball.

Whatever works, works. But passing in short-yardage situations doesn’t.


https://triblive.com/sports/mark-madden-sure-the-steelers-are-undefeated-but-skepticism-is-warranted/

[flippy]

Ravens team that only dressed 36 players, with eight of them making their NFL debut.



I didn't realize how few players they dressed and how many of them were brand new to the league.

That sounds even worse than I realized.

[Mr.wizard]

People are acting like what we saw wednsday is how the Steelers perform every week and its just not.

[NorthCoast]

..... But the Steelers have three wins of much note. ......


https://triblive.com/sports/mark-madden-sure-the-steelers-are-undefeated-but-skepticism-is-warranted/

... discounting the good wins and emphasizing the lesser wins... Madden simply parroting the rest of the MSM. Steelers have something to prove in the remaining schedule.

[The Glory Days]

Mark Madden: Sure, the Steelers are undefeated but skepticism is warranted

MARK MADDEN | Friday, December 4, 2020

The Steelers are 11-0.

It’s a weak 11-0.

That sounds (is) absurd. But the Steelers have three wins of much note. Beating Daniel Jones, Jeff Driskel, Carson Wentz, Garrett Gilbert, Jake Luton and Robert Griffin III doesn’t add up to a championship-level resume. Those victories against rotten quarterbacks duly noted, the Steelers also beat a bad coach (Bill O’Brien) and perennially lousy Cincinnati.

Heck, defeating Baker Mayfield isn’t all that dazzling. But Cleveland is somehow 8-3.

Skeptics unimpressed by the Steelers got a lot of ammunition Wednesday when the Steelers barely got by Baltimore’s JV. For an easy game, it was really difficult.

The Steelers never looked like they would lose, but consider three big plays: Joe Haden’s pick-six, Minkah Fitzpatrick’s breakup to deny Baltimore a go-ahead touchdown at the end of the first half, and James Washington’s third-down catch in traffic that let the Steelers keep the ball late.

Eliminate any of those, and the Steelers could very easily have lost to a Ravens team that only dressed 36 players, with eight of them making their NFL debut.

How would that performance fare against Kansas City?

It’s not too soon to wonder. After starting 11-0, anything less than making the AFC Championship Game would be disastrous. Not winning a playoff game makes the season a total bust. That applies even (and especially) if the Steelers go 16-0.

Rescheduling Thursday’s game three times distracted and disrupted. That doesn’t matter. The Ravens were crippled and easy to look past. That doesn’t matter, either.

Mike Tomlin and Ben Roethlisberger know that. Each was angry after Thursday’s win. (Roethlisberger was also mad at the NFL for making the Steelers play a “doubleheader.”)

Problems keep piling up. Outside linebacker Bud Dupree is out for the season with a torn ACL. The Steelers defense is built on speed and aggression. Dupree brought plenty of both, as did inside ‘backer Devin Bush, also done ‘til ’21.

Fitzpatrick’s speed, savvy and excellence in the middle of the field have helped cover Bush’s absence. Robert Spillane has literally filled Bush’s spot and done fine. Rookie Alex Highsmith will replace Dupree. Highsmith has looked OK in limited duty, but giving a rookie more snaps can be a slippery slope. That said, it’s a simple job. Ola Adeniyi will figure in, too.

The receivers dropped between 5-10 balls Thursday depending on your definition. That’s hopefully temporary, because those don’t look good on TikTok.

It’s trouble if the receivers don’t get more sure-handed, because the Steelers’ offense relies almost exclusively on passing. The running game is feeble and on life support. Roethlisberger seems determined to pull the plug, or maybe smother it with a pillow.

In five of the Steelers’ last six games, Roethlisberger has thrown 42 times or more. He was 36 for 51 for 266 yards Thursday. That’s a good day if half the drops get caught.

In those six games, the Steelers have attempted to pass on 68% of their offensive plays. That’s akin to 2018, when they did so on 70% of their snaps.

That didn’t work in ’18: The Steelers went 9-6-1 and missed the playoffs. It’s working this year against foes like Luton and Griffin.

Will it work in the postseason? Would it work against Patrick Mahomes?

Not if there are 5-10 drops, it won’t. Thursday’s mess included three red-zone drops. That’s suicide against a decent foe.

It’s popular to say the short pass can replace the run. In many respects, that’s true. The Steelers prove that by ranking second in the NFL for time of possession.

But you need to convert a few short-yardage downs on the ground, especially near the goal line where the passing game has less room to work with.

On Thursday, the Steelers had six plays where it was third or fourth down and with 2 yards needed or less. The Steelers passed five times, converting once. The Steelers made the sticks on their only try running the ball.

Whatever works, works. But passing in short-yardage situations doesn’t.


https://triblive.com/sports/mark-madden-sure-the-steelers-are-undefeated-but-skepticism-is-warranted/

You're not wrong with this, but I look at this game as an anomaly, not the norm. Ebron and DJ have had their drops this season, for certain, but the WR performance (Ray-Ray's ST blunder as well) on Wednesday was not indicative of their efforts all season. I'm not worried about them making this a habit.

[feltdizz]

I have no issue with anyone being skeptical this year. This isn’t a year where anyone should have confidence based on the schedule changes and unknowns.

However, there is no way I would make any declarations based on a game vs the Ravens on a Wed. I don’t care who was on the field for Baltimore. People act like RGIII is a bum. He still has wheels and that little run up the middle is difficult to defend. Especially when we were missing Tuitt.

[Starlifter]

Doubt is warranted. Happy to be at 11-0 but there are too many wins that lead you to ask - how’d they pull it off and none to say - that’s a dominating team.

[The Glory Days]

I have no issue with anyone being skeptical this year. This isn’t a year where anyone should have confidence based on the schedule changes and unknowns.

However, there is no way I would make any declarations based on a game vs the Ravens on a Wed. I don’t care who was on the field for Baltimore. People act like RGIII is a bum. He still has wheels and that little run up the middle is difficult to defend. Especially when we were missing Tuitt.

This might actually have been our biggest trap game of the year. In years past, we lose this game. In years past, we're 6-5 right now. There's something special about this team. I just hope our deserved skepticism doesn't catch up to us and bite us in the ass when it really matters.

[The Glory Days]

Doubt is warranted. Happy to be at 11-0 but there are too many wins that lead you to ask - how’d they pull it off and none to say - that’s a dominating team.

This.

I can't tell you how many times this season I've wondered DURING games how we are up on the scoreboard. There is nothing conventional about this team, this season, or this year. Maybe that's why we're undefeated?

[hawaiiansteel]

Doubt is warranted. Happy to be at 11-0 but there are too many wins that lead you to ask - how’d they pull it off and none to say - that’s a dominating team.

especially since our run game is way below the line.

with the weather getting worse, this is going to rear its ugly head more and more.

[whisper]

This piece is pure ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Steelwolf]

Doubt is warranted. Happy to be at 11-0 but there are too many wins that lead you to ask - how’d they pull it off and none to say - that’s a dominating team.

Agreed and warranted for he doubts

[feltdizz]

This might actually have been our biggest trap game of the year. In years past, we lose this game. In years past, we're 6-5 right now. There's something special about this team. I just hope our deserved skepticism doesn't catch up to us and bite us in the ass when it really matters.
any team thats undefeated after 11 games will have a few “how did we win this game?” moments.

Its rare for a team to buzz saw their way through 11 games which makes this year extremely special. This is the year for every team to have an excuse for a loss and we’ve yet to have our game.

I will admit I won’t be surprised if we fall short given what we have seen this year. I guess this is everyone’s way of saying they aren’t convinced we are a dominating team.

I will end with this, our defense is special and losing Dupree is scary. Next man up is no slouch, young but talented...but playing the run is where I think Dupree truly shines as an OLB. Hopefully Highsmith shows us that you can feast on that side because TJ is a freaking monster.

[Northern_Blitz]

Steelers are 11-0 and they deserve it.

Few teams get to this kind of record so it's an indication that they are probably a good team.

Does that mean they are perfect? No. It's not the 70s anymore and the salary cap means that every team will have weaknesses. So far, our strengths have outweighed our weaknesses and we've been able to win against the teams that are on our schedule. That schedule includes several teams that are currently in the playoff hunt in the AFC.

It also includes some pretty terrible teams.

Does being 11-0 mean that we are going to be (i) 16-0 and / or (ii) win the SB? No. No team is so good that they are necessarily going to win every game.

I'm happy that we've been able to win games even when we play poorly.

But I'm also concerned about some of our weaknesses. Like inability / lack of confidence to run in short yardage situations. I'm also concerned that building a team that consistently throws so much might bite us in the a$$ in cold weather playoff games.

But, that's why they play the games I guess.

I'll be in my jersey twirling my towel until we've won the trophy or we get eliminated. :tt2

[raycafan]

I didn't realize how few players they dressed and how many of them were brand new to the league.

That sounds even worse than I realized.

They dressed more than that, they had a full team for what dresses for a game. Madden is just pointing out that they were under manned. By taking easy way to do it

[hawaiiansteel]

take this with a grain of salt as Bart Scott is a ex-Raven.

ESPN Analyst Doesn’t Think Steelers Will Win A Playoff Game This Season

The Pittsburgh Steelers could wind up going 16-0 this season, and it still wouldn’t be enough to satisfy the team’s doubters.

Big Ben and the Steelers have more doubters than believers these days, despite going 11-0 to start the season. Winning this many games without losing isn’t a fluke, especially in the NFL.

Yes, Pittsburgh’s schedule hasn’t been too daunting up to his point (the team’s best wins coming against Cleveland and Tennessee). But that shouldn’t take away from the fact the Steelers haven’t lost a game. They’re just the 12th team in the NFL’s Super Bowl era to start the season 11-0 – five of those teams wound up winning the Super Bowl.

ESPN analyst Bart Scott has major doubts about the Steelers, though. So much so, Scott thinks Pittsburgh won’t even win a playoff game when the time comes.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if this Steelers team and all their flaws are one and done,” Scott said on ESPN’s Get Up! on Friday.

The hate directed toward the Steelers is getting a bit absurd. There’s no point in rushing to any playoff conclusions just yet. The Steelers may have flaws, but those same flaws haven’t prevented them from winning every game this season.

The same people hating on the Steelers this season are the same who hated on the 49ers last season when they started the season 8-0. We all know what happened from there as San Francisco went on to win the NFC before falling to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.

Pittsburgh, meanwhile, is on track to earn the No. 1 seed in the AFC Playoff pictures, as long as the team doesn’t fall apart these last few games.

That No. 1 seed could prove crucial for a veteran team like the Steelers, which would then get an extra bye to start the playoffs.


https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-north/pittsburgh-steelers/espn-analyst-doesnt-think-steelers-will-win-a-playoff-game-this-season

[Starlifter]

on the plus side - nothing us amateurs are noting isn't something the Steelers aren't keenly aware of. They have 5 more weeks to dial it in and prepare for January. They also will have 5 more weeks of doubters and shots from folks like Bart Scott (nice that his initials are B.S.) to motivate them.

How they're playing now has been good enough to put the team in a great position. How they play in January is what counts. If it's at the current level, we probably ARE one and done. But if they peak at the right time?........

[The Glory Days]

any team thats undefeated after 11 games will have a few “how did we win this game?” moments.
I would contend that we've had more than a few. I agree that every team has its warts. And I don't expect us to win every game 40-0.

But I do expect to see improvement and better results week to week. I'm not seeing it.

It is nice to see our offense lift up our defense when it isn't clicking on all cylinders and vice versa. Both have been instrumental, and very much needed, to pull out some of these wins. That's reassuring going down the stretch.

I'm convinced that this team can beat any team in the league, and not on "any given Sunday." If they both were to play solid for 60 minutes, our defense could slow down Mahomes and his offense enough for Ben and Co. to out pace them. Doing that is another story. But it's nice to know we could.

[Northern_Blitz]

take this with a grain of salt as Bart Scott is a ex-Raven.

ESPN Analyst Doesn’t Think Steelers Will Win A Playoff Game This Season

The Pittsburgh Steelers could wind up going 16-0 this season, and it still wouldn’t be enough to satisfy the team’s doubters.

Big Ben and the Steelers have more doubters than believers these days, despite going 11-0 to start the season. Winning this many games without losing isn’t a fluke, especially in the NFL.

Yes, Pittsburgh’s schedule hasn’t been too daunting up to his point (the team’s best wins coming against Cleveland and Tennessee). But that shouldn’t take away from the fact the Steelers haven’t lost a game. They’re just the 12th team in the NFL’s Super Bowl era to start the season 11-0 – five of those teams wound up winning the Super Bowl.

ESPN analyst Bart Scott has major doubts about the Steelers, though. So much so, Scott thinks Pittsburgh won’t even win a playoff game when the time comes.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if this Steelers team and all their flaws are one and done,” Scott said on ESPN’s Get Up! on Friday.

The hate directed toward the Steelers is getting a bit absurd. There’s no point in rushing to any playoff conclusions just yet. The Steelers may have flaws, but those same flaws haven’t prevented them from winning every game this season.

The same people hating on the Steelers this season are the same who hated on the 49ers last season when they started the season 8-0. We all know what happened from there as San Francisco went on to win the NFC before falling to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.

Pittsburgh, meanwhile, is on track to earn the No. 1 seed in the AFC Playoff pictures, as long as the team doesn’t fall apart these last few games.

That No. 1 seed could prove crucial for a veteran team like the Steelers, which would then get an extra bye to start the playoffs.


https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-north/pittsburgh-steelers/espn-analyst-doesnt-think-steelers-will-win-a-playoff-game-this-season

We'll see.

By the end of the season, we'll probably have a shot at many of the teams that we'd have the opportunity to play before the AFCC. So far we've beaten the ones on the schedule (Cle, Ten, Bal (2x)). We play three teams fighting for playoff spots in the next 5 (Bills, Colts, and Browns).

I think we'll have a pretty good idea of what we look like against playoff teams (or bubble teams if the Rats and / or Colts don't make it) by the time the season is over. Really we already have a fairly good idea now IMO.

I think we can beat anyone the the playoffs (and I'd favor us against anyone by KC). But I also think we can lose to anyone in the playoffs.

Losing Bud probably hurts, but I'm hopeful that the D will still generate very good pressure (although we might not end up with the lead in sacks for the 3rd? straight year).

[BURGH86STEEL]

I would contend that we've had more than a few. I agree that every team has its warts. And I don't expect us to win every game 40-0.

But I do expect to see improvement and better results week to week. I'm not seeing it.

It is nice to see our offense lift up our defense when it isn't clicking on all cylinders and vice versa. Both have been instrumental, and very much needed, to pull out some of these wins. That's reassuring going down the stretch.

I'm convinced that this team can beat any team in the league, and not on "any given Sunday." If they both were to play solid for 60 minutes, our defense could slow down Mahomes and his offense enough for Ben and Co. to out pace them. Doing that is another story. But it's nice to know we could.

We don't generally see consistent improvement from week to week of any team in this era the NFL. Teams have bad games or don't play well. What we generally seem to witness more in this era of the NFL is improved records or a decrese in records from season to season. Several teams that made the playoffs last year probably won't make the playoffs this year. There are various reasons why this is the case.

[The Glory Days]

We don't generally see consistent improvement from week to week of any team in this era the NFL. Teams have bad games or don't play well. What we generally seem to witness more in this era of the NFL is improved records or a decrese in records from season to season. Several teams that made the playoffs last year probably won't make the playoffs this year. There are various reasons why this is the case.

Fair points. I didn't mean that we should show improvement as a trend, like we start bad and consistantly get better every week. I mean that we should show improvement over our issues/problems. Moreso, correct mistakes.

I totally accept that there are things you can't fix because of personnel. If you don't have the fastest corners, for example, you're not going to be able to have them bump and run all game without help over the top.

So that brings us to coaching and putting the players in the best position to win on every down. I didn't just say "win every down." I said to be in the best position to do so. The outcome of every play is a moving target.

So all that to say that we have not done enough, week in and week out this season, to be a better team than the week(s) before. We are basically seeing the same team with the same struggles. And if we can see it, so can our opponents. We are becomming more and more one dimensional as the season progresses. Game film is becomming more and more definitive on how to play us, so much so that second/third stringers are able to give us fits.

This goes back to my years of criticism of Tomlin, and why I don't think he's a great coach. But I'll save that opinion for another thread at another time.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Fair points. I didn't mean that we should show improvement as a trend, like we start bad and consistantly get better every week. I mean that we should show improvement over our issues/problems. Moreso, correct mistakes.

I totally accept that there are things you can't fix because of personnel. If you don't have the fastest corners, for example, you're not going to be able to have them bump and run all game without help over the top.

So that brings us to coaching and putting the players in the best position to win on every down. I didn't just say "win every down." I said to be in the best position to do so. The outcome of every play is a moving target.

So all that to say that we have not done enough, week in and week out this season, to be a better team than the week(s) before. We are basically seeing the same team with the same struggles. And if we can see it, so can our opponents. We are becomming more and more one dimensional as the season progresses. Game film is becomming more and more definitive on how to play us, so much so that second/third stringers are able to give us fits.

This goes back to my years of criticism of Tomlin, and why I don't think he's a great coach. But I'll save that opinion for another thread at another time.
The Steelers won games a variety of ways. They certainly need to play better and limit mistakes on a more consistent basis. They have 5 games to see how teams will approach them without Dupree. They will have the opportunity to develop a plan. Other players will need to step up. So we will see what happens.

Tomlin is well on his way to the HOF. That's greatness in the making.

[feltdizz]

struggling to be 11-0. I’ll take it.

[The Glory Days]

struggling to be 11-0. I’ll take it.

I hope your optimism in our record is enough. Because I've never seen anyone get help in a game by their record.

So do you think we're a better team now than we were at the beginning of the season?

[BURGH86STEEL]

I hope your optimism in our record is enough. Because I've never seen anyone get help in a game by their record.

So do you think we're a better team now than we were at the beginning of the season?I don't think anyone is expecting help based on the team's record.

If they are not a better team then it's due to injuries. Better in some ways and not better in other ways. That's life in the NFL. The most important things are health and how well they perform on game day. As long as Ben can suit up and play well then they will have a realistic chance every week.

[Northern_Blitz]

I hope your optimism in our record is enough. Because I've never seen anyone get help in a game by their record.

So do you think we're a better team now than we were at the beginning of the season?

The record doesn't help anyone win or lose. And no one is making that argument. I think most of us try to avoid straw man arguments around here because it gets tiresome arguing points no one is making.

I think the argument people are making is that the record shows that the Steelers have been able to win despite their weaknesses (which certainly exist).

If you're arguing that they aren't as good as their record implies, I agree with you.

But it seems like it's in fashion this week to pretend like they're on the level of a playoff bubble team that's has unlikely to win any playoff games (even though we've beat several playoff teams already).

Football fans tend to over react to individual games IMO. I think we get a clearer picture by looking at a bigger sample.

Remember there was an early game when we sucked on 3rd down (Houston I think?). Now after a larger sample, we're 3rd in stopping 3rd down conversions on defense.

[Oviedo]

struggling to be 11-0. I’ll take it.


I'm with you.

Sad how we are undefeated, the only one, and "fans" can't do anything but complain. No one on this board at the start of the season would have bet a penny that we would be undefeated at this point of the season, but now that we are they can't help themselves and complain. Sad...

[NorthCoast]

I'm with you.

Sad how we are undefeated, the only one, and "fans" can't do anything but complain. No one on this board at the start of the season would have bet a penny that we would be undefeated at this point of the season, but now that we are they can't help themselves and complain. Sad...Tomlin himself had a long list of complaints about the team after the last game.

[BURGH86STEEL]

The record doesn't help anyone win or lose. And no one is making that argument. I think most of us try to avoid straw man arguments around here because it gets tiresome arguing points no one is making.

I think the argument people are making is that the record shows that the Steelers have been able to win despite their weaknesses (which certainly exist).

If you're arguing that they aren't as good as their record implies, I agree with you.

But it seems like it's in fashion this week to pretend like they're on the level of a playoff bubble team that's has unlikely to win any playoff games (even though we've beat several playoff teams already).

Football fans tend to over react to individual games IMO. I think we get a clearer picture by looking at a bigger sample.

Remember there was an early game when we sucked on 3rd down (Houston I think?). Now after a larger sample, we're 3rd in stopping 3rd down conversions on defense.

In some ways teams probably need adversity or bad games to improve. Sometimes a bad game is just a bad game. People like to conjure all kinds of blame and fault.

We would like for the Steelers to become the worst undefeated team to win the Superbowl. I just threw that in there considering the 11-0 criticism being thrown around by the talking heads. I think a couple of losses will be good for this team. A couple of losses is probably good for any team that wins a lot.

[Ghost]

All teams are beatable. Everyone talks about KC but they have won their last 3 games by a combined 9 points. They are not blowing people out. They are for sure beatable.

[The Glory Days]

The record doesn't help anyone win or lose. And no one is making that argument. I think most of us try to avoid straw man arguments around here because it gets tiresome arguing points no one is making.
I'm with you on that. I'll try to avoid those types of arguments, but I can't make any promises. ;)

I think the argument people are making is that the record shows that the Steelers have been able to win despite their weaknesses (which certainly exist).
I can'targue that point, either.

If you're arguing that they aren't as good as their record implies, I agree with you.
We're 3 for 3 so far.
But it seems like it's in fashion this week to pretend like they're on the level of a playoff bubble team that's has unlikely to win any playoff games (even though we've beat several playoff teams already).
My contention is that we have a team that CAN beat any team, and not because of parity or "any given Sunday." I believe our defense can disrupt any passing attack, even KC, enough to allow our offense to keep pace. But what scares me, and makes me argue about our weaknesses, is that we are not playing up to our abilities and are allowing our deficiencies to make games far closer than they should be. It isn't as important in the regular season to not stumble and fumble around. But we have not proven that we can put together a championship caliber performance yet. As long as we have a few in our pocket for when it counts, then I'm happy. Only time will tell.

Football fans tend to over react to individual games IMO. I think we get a clearer picture by looking at a bigger sample.
True. But I'm not one of those fans. I have been lamenting the same deficiencies through 2019's suckfest to today.
I have been just as critical during a lost season as a perfect (so far) one.
Remember there was an early game when we sucked on 3rd down (Houston I think?). Now after a larger sample, we're 3rd in stopping 3rd down conversions on defense.Yep. That will happen. I agree. Plenty of anomalies, outliers, and misleading stats make up a season.

It's making me type something here in order to post. So I'm typing something.

[Ghost]

Seattle lost to the NY Giants today. Every team has some imperfections.

[Steel Maniac]

Seattle lost to the NY Giants today. Every team has some imperfections.

Exactly......

[hawaiiansteel]

Seattle lost to the NY Giants today. Every team has some imperfections.

that was an impressive defensive performance by the G-Men today.

[Northern_Blitz]

It's making me type something here in order to post. So I'm typing something.

I don't think I disagree with a thing you said here.

The good news is that KC is also squeaking out games they should win handily.

I'm worried we lose early in the playoffs too.

Because it's a single elimination tournament and we're not a dominant team (I don't think there are dominant teams this year).

[NorthCoast]

I can list warts for every team. Some warts are bigger than others;

http://www.altmedicinezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/wart.jpg

The Steelers have shown they know how to deal with their warts... at least up to now.

[Oviedo]

Seattle lost to the NY Giants today. Every team has some imperfections.

Exactly. Every team in the NFL is staffed with professional athletes. Any team can win any game.

Thats why criticisms of every loss are usually ridiculous

[feltdizz]

I don't think I disagree with a thing you said here.

The good news is that KC is also squeaking out games they should win handily.

I'm worried we lose early in the playoffs too.

Because it's a single elimination tournament and we're not a dominant team (I don't think there are dominant teams this year).

This year is definitely a toss up. However, I always worry about early playoff losses because its single elimination.

countless teams had great seasons and early exits due to matchup nightmares or just catching the wrong team at the right time.

I’m just enjoying it as it happens because we have no idea how this ride will end. Almost feels like some people preparing themselves for their “I told you so’s” but lets be honest, no one thought we would be 11-0 when this season started.

[feltdizz]

Exactly. Every team in the NFL is staffed with professional athletes. Any team can win any game.

Thats why criticisms of every loss are usually ridiculous

now we criticize wins.. lol.

same people bashing the Steelers for taking teams lightly are angry because we didn’t blow a team out. Talk about hypocrisy.

[Oviedo]

now we criticize wins.. lol.

same people bashing the Steelers for taking teams lightly are angry because we didn’t blow a team out. Talk about hypocrisy.

True...among those whose glasses are always half empty, even winning is not enough.

But that is what happens when you create a message board persona to hate a person or some aspect of the team you profess to be a fan of

[Northern_Blitz]

This year is definitely a toss up. However, I always worry about early playoff losses because its single elimination.

countless teams had great seasons and early exits due to matchup nightmares or just catching the wrong team at the right time.

I’m just enjoying it as it happens because we have no idea how this ride will end. Almost feels like some people preparing themselves for their “I told you so’s” but lets be honest, no one thought we would be 11-0 when this season started.

Yep. Luck / chance / bounces end up being a big deal in single elimination tournaments.

It's why March Madness is so much fun. And in the NFL playoffs there's no equivalent to the bracket's 1 seed vs 16 seed.

Most playoff teams are good enough to be at least something like 30% odds to win (or about the same as the chance of winning paper rock scissors).

[feltdizz]

True...among those whose glasses are always half empty, even winning is not enough.

But that is what happens when you create a message board persona to hate a person or some aspect of the team you profess to be a fan of

well you know some of these folks have been on the edge of their seat waiting to bash the team after a loss so its been rough for them this year.. lol.

[Mr.wizard]

well you know some of these folks have been on the edge of their seat waiting to bash the team after a loss so its been rough for them this year.. lol.

They're not even waiting anymore, now they are bashing them because they dont think they look like an undefeated team should look.

[Oviedo]

They're not even waiting anymore, now they are bashing them because they dont think they look like an undefeated team should look.

Pretty crazy isn't it...You are undefeated and have the best record in the NFL, but you suck

[hawaiiansteel]

True...among those whose glasses are always half empty, even winning is not enough.

But that is what happens when you create a message board persona to hate a person or some aspect of the team you profess to be a fan of

seriously, what kind of real Steelers fan has a sig wanting Tomlin fired and then continues to keep it even though we're still undefeated?

[NorthCoast]

Uh oh, somebody better inform Tomlin that these comments are not acceptable when your team wins but plays horribly:


When asked why his team struggled in the red zone against a depleted Ravens defense, all he would offer was, “us sucking”.


“To be bluntly honest, I’m really disappointed in our performance tonight. It was junior varsity—in all three phases”, he told reporters just a short time ago during his post-game press conference

[flippy]

They're not even waiting anymore, now they are bashing them because they dont think they look like an undefeated team should look.

I think there's something extra at work here. The real uber fanatic (the guy that truly lives and dies by the success of the team) is always on the edge of a mental/physical break down. That fan needs the team to be successful in order for his life to make sense and perhaps even have meaning. He hangs on every play. Every action. And nothing goes unnoticed. The joy of our team brings people out of their funk. And life is a funk in 2020 for most people. Seems like everyone is going thru some stuff whether they admit it or not and I think that heightens all reactions. And for some, the Steelers just can't let them down like everyone else does or seems to. The Steelers represent hope just like religion to some and politics to others. And any time you talk Steelers, religion, or politics, someone is going to lose their mind because this is all about emotion, hope, faith, feeling more than reality. And when I see frustration, anger, irritation, whatever, I see it as a desperate need to fill a gap. Some people that seem to hate really just care too much.

They usually care more than those with the flippant or nonchalant attitudes of it's just a game. It's entertainment. It's an escape. It is what it is and we want to keep it light so it satisfies a different need for an escape. These other positive fans can be perceived to be casual fans. They aren't living and dying the same way as the other end of the fan spectrum. Sometimes they do care and just need to put up a facade. Don't let anyone else know you're sweating it. Don't let anyone see that you too are overwhelmed some times too. Gotta hide that weakness. Pain, anger, etc. are signs of weakness.

Both sides are the same on some level. Especially those that respond to one another. They just protect their emotional investment in different ways.

I'll admit, some times these arguments make me feel weird. On the one hand, I absolutely believe we're going 19-0 at the beginning of every season. Then in the heat of a game, I'll blurt out an F bomb when we play below our abilities or make some boneheaded plays. And then I know we can come back, but you can't help but notice all the repeated patterns of things our players and coaches do that they never correct. Overall, I'm about as laid back a person as you'll ever meet, but I can also appreciate the therapy of letting go of emotions in a moment. And I can understand why those emotions linger for some. And I also realize how negativity eventually gets under most people's skin. And that's where the circle completes and everyone irritates everyone at different times and we hate the things we love and love the things we hate and once every thought cancels out every other thought and it doesn't really matter, you might as well expect 19-0 every time. :)

[Chucktownsteeler]

Before the injuries I thought we had a real chance at 19-0. I'm not so sure now.

[The Glory Days]

now we criticize wins.. lol.

same people bashing the Steelers for taking teams lightly are angry because we didn’t blow a team out. Talk about hypocrisy.

I don't know that people are actually "angry" that we aren't blowing teams out. Definitely two camps here, though. One is thrilled with the victories and the big picture. Glass half full crowd. And there's nothing wrong with that. The other camp, glass half empty, are no less passionate about the team or any less legitimate fans. I know this, because I am one. I've been die-hard, don't blink, never leave a game early or turn off the tv early even in lopsided loss, sit the same way, wear same garb, keep terrible towels in same position, and more for over 30 years. I've loved them since I identified with the kid trading his coke for Mean Joe's jersey. I've never wavered.

And because they are such a big part of my life, I obsess. And we spoiled Steeler fans don't long for playoffs. We don't relish in winning seasons. It's a ring or bust. And this crazy, f'd up year is teasing us mercilously with 11 straight wins without a packed stadium. How is that even possible? The Steelers have won 11 straight games and are alone at the top of the league...and we've had less than 30,000 fans attend games ALL SEASON. This is almost as bad as the Pirates.

So I obsess. I admit I'm waiting for the wheels to come off. Why wouldn't I? We're in uncharted territory here. We haven't been the most consistent team over the past decade. I think that's a fair statement. And we've also underachieved with very good teams. So when we win all these games but do so in an underwhelming fashion, I take little pleasure in watching us muddle through. I don't care about how much or little other teams muddle. They are of no consequence unless they are on the same field.

I want the Steelers to grab a ring this season. Ben looks old to me. He is hurting. His body isn't holding up. He is still a top 10 qb and a case can be made for higher, but easily top 10. I don't know if we're going to have him for another year. Hell, I'm still worried that we won't have him for the playoffs. We've got some tough games left against get-after-it defenses. So our window of opportunity is closing because without Ben, we don't have a signal caller on our roster who can move this offense in spite of the play-calling.

So I obsess. I worry about our deficiencies. I discount our record and our statistics because they don't help us on game day. That doesn't mean I don't love being undefeated. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate our efforts. I just worry that we have issues that can and should be fixed in order to get us through the most difficult and rewarding part of the season, when mistakes and deficiencies = golfing.

I'll keep complaining, even if we were to find ourselves 16-0. But please don't confuse that with me wanting to complain more than see the team win.

:tt2

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Pretty crazy isn't it...You are undefeated and have the best record in the NFL, but you suck

It is funny watching the talking heads give their power rankings. They lay out an entire scathing analysis on all the problems that the Steelers have.....and then they place them in the number two spot in their ranking.

[NorthCoast]

and sometimes it simply pushing peoples buttons... kinda like Pittsburgh Dad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm-TiucR-sU

[Buzz]

I don't know that people are actually "angry" that we aren't blowing teams out. Definitely two camps here, though. One is thrilled with the victories and the big picture. Glass half full crowd. And there's nothing wrong with that. The other camp, glass half empty, are no less passionate about the team or any less legitimate fans. I know this, because I am one. I've been die-hard, don't blink, never leave a game early or turn off the tv early even in lopsided loss, sit the same way, wear same garb, keep terrible towels in same position, and more for over 30 years. I've loved them since I identified with the kid trading his coke for Mean Joe's jersey. I've never wavered.

And because they are such a big part of my life, I obsess. And we spoiled Steeler fans don't long for playoffs. We don't relish in winning seasons. It's a ring or bust. And this crazy, f'd up year is teasing us mercilously with 11 straight wins without a packed stadium. How is that even possible? The Steelers have won 11 straight games and are alone at the top of the league...and we've had less than 30,000 fans attend games ALL SEASON. This is almost as bad as the Pirates.

So I obsess. I admit I'm waiting for the wheels to come off. Why wouldn't I? We're in uncharted territory here. We haven't been the most consistent team over the past decade. I think that's a fair statement. And we've also underachieved with very good teams. So when we win all these games but do so in an underwhelming fashion, I take little pleasure in watching us muddle through. I don't care about how much or little other teams muddle. They are of no consequence unless they are on the same field.

I want the Steelers to grab a ring this season. Ben looks old to me. He is hurting. His body isn't holding up. He is still a top 10 qb and a case can be made for higher, but easily top 10. I don't know if we're going to have him for another year. Hell, I'm still worried that we won't have him for the playoffs. We've got some tough games left against get-after-it defenses. So our window of opportunity is closing because without Ben, we don't have a signal caller on our roster who can move this offense in spite of the play-calling.

So I obsess. I worry about our deficiencies. I discount our record and our statistics because they don't help us on game day. That doesn't mean I don't love being undefeated. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate our efforts. I just worry that we have issues that can and should be fixed in order to get us through the most difficult and rewarding part of the season, when mistakes and deficiencies = golfing.

I'll keep complaining, even if we were to find ourselves 16-0. But please don't confuse that with me wanting to complain more than see the team win.

:tt2

Well stated. According to some here, you can't be a "real fan" if you think the way you do (or you're less of one than they are), but know that there are a few of us who understand and can identify.

[The Glory Days]

and sometimes it simply pushing peoples buttons... kinda like Pittsburgh Dad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm-TiucR-sU

Actually, it's his kids who supposedly push all the buttons...until they break something.

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't know that people are actually "angry" that we aren't blowing teams out. Definitely two camps here, though. One is thrilled with the victories and the big picture. Glass half full crowd. And there's nothing wrong with that. The other camp, glass half empty, are no less passionate about the team or any less legitimate fans. I know this, because I am one. I've been die-hard, don't blink, never leave a game early or turn off the tv early even in lopsided loss, sit the same way, wear same garb, keep terrible towels in same position, and more for over 30 years. I've loved them since I identified with the kid trading his coke for Mean Joe's jersey. I've never wavered.

And because they are such a big part of my life, I obsess. And we spoiled Steeler fans don't long for playoffs. We don't relish in winning seasons. It's a ring or bust. And this crazy, f'd up year is teasing us mercilously with 11 straight wins without a packed stadium. How is that even possible? The Steelers have won 11 straight games and are alone at the top of the league...and we've had less than 30,000 fans attend games ALL SEASON. This is almost as bad as the Pirates.

So I obsess. I admit I'm waiting for the wheels to come off. Why wouldn't I? We're in uncharted territory here. We haven't been the most consistent team over the past decade. I think that's a fair statement. And we've also underachieved with very good teams. So when we win all these games but do so in an underwhelming fashion, I take little pleasure in watching us muddle through. I don't care about how much or little other teams muddle. They are of no consequence unless they are on the same field.

I want the Steelers to grab a ring this season. Ben looks old to me. He is hurting. His body isn't holding up. He is still a top 10 qb and a case can be made for higher, but easily top 10. I don't know if we're going to have him for another year. Hell, I'm still worried that we won't have him for the playoffs. We've got some tough games left against get-after-it defenses. So our window of opportunity is closing because without Ben, we don't have a signal caller on our roster who can move this offense in spite of the play-calling.

So I obsess. I worry about our deficiencies. I discount our record and our statistics because they don't help us on game day. That doesn't mean I don't love being undefeated. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate our efforts. I just worry that we have issues that can and should be fixed in order to get us through the most difficult and rewarding part of the season, when mistakes and deficiencies = golfing.

I'll keep complaining, even if we were to find ourselves 16-0. But please don't confuse that with me wanting to complain more than see the team win.

:tt2

I think this is mostly fair.

I'm probably in the glass half full camp.

But I don't think we're "thrilled with the victories" (at least speaking for myself).

I want us to blow everyone out.

I thought we were going to beat Bal by more than we did. Although I think the score doesn't represent the competitiveness of that game well.

It's just that I know we are going to fall short of my expectations / hopes most years.

And it doesn't take me long to get over the disappointments.

I wasn't that way when I was younger and what I thought were great teams would lose another home field playoff game under BC.

I never wanted him fired, but I did think we were disappointing in so many of those years.

But I grew up around Toronto where / when the NFL wasn't that big a deal. And people I knew who did like football were mostly Bills fans that had just gone through the most heartbreaking half decade imaginable (if you only care about SB wins).

That and long suffering Leafs fans.

So maybe I appreciated how good we have it as Steelers fans (even if we often play a few fewer games than I'd prefer).

[The Glory Days]

I think this is mostly fair.

I'm probably in the glass half full camp.

But I don't think we're "thrilled with the victories" (at least speaking for myself).

I want us to blow everyone out.

I thought we were going to beat Bal by more than we did. Although I think the score doesn't represent the competitiveness of that game well.

It's just that I know we are going to fall short of my expectations / hopes most years.

And it doesn't take me long to get over the disappointments.

I wasn't that way when I was younger and what I thought were great teams would lose another home field playoff game under BC.

I never wanted him fired, but I did think we were disappointing in so many of those years.

But I grew up around Toronto where / when the NFL wasn't that big a deal. And people I knew who did like football were mostly Bills fans that had just gone through the most heartbreaking half decade imaginable (if you only care about SB wins).

That and long suffering Leafs fans.

So maybe I appreciated how good we have it as Steelers fans (even if we often play a few fewer games than I'd prefer).

Well said. :Clap

[hawaiiansteel]

Cigar in hand, Colin Cowherd gloats after Steelers loss


https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/08/steelers-washington-loss-unbeaten-colin-cowherd-nfl/

[NorthCoast]

Cigar in hand, Colin Cowherd gloats after Steelers loss


https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/08/steelers-washington-loss-unbeaten-colin-cowherd-nfl/saw that coming a million miles away... hey, even a broken clock, etc, etc....

[feltdizz]

Cigar in hand, Colin Cowherd gloats after Steelers loss


https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/08/steelers-washington-loss-unbeaten-colin-cowherd-nfl/

lmao at predicting a loss after 11 games and gloating about it.

no wonder people on here like this clown.

[Northern_Blitz]

saw that coming a million miles away... hey, even a broken clock, etc, etc....

Ya. It doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that a team won't go undefeated.

It's like when people pick the field vs. one team / coach to win the SB. :stirpot

Or maybe more like the financial talking heads that have predicted 30 of the last 3 recessions.

But his job is to sell advertising slots and apparently he does a good job of it.

[NorthCoast]

He also just made some follow up comments on the Steelers:

"upon closer examination, this isn't a Tomlin problem...Tomlin is a HOF coach. This is a Ben Roethlisberger and whoever is running the offense problem".

"the defense is good, has always been good, that's Tomlin.." the offense is not efficient, has poor yds per attempt, is inconsistent.

sounds like he is pointing the finger at the OC and QB.... well duh.

[hawaiiansteel]

Ya. It doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that a team won't go undefeated.

It's like when people pick the field vs. one team / coach to win the SB. :stirpot


yup, exactly.