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Steelwolf
09-16-2019, 10:15 PM
To the phins
..for Fitzpatrick

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:16 PM
This was a huge mistake by Colbert. We are not one player away from solving our problems. Plus I wouldn’t have given up a first round pick; a 2nd and a 3rd would have been my offer.

pittpete
09-16-2019, 10:18 PM
Love it....Build the defense up for Rudulph

Steelers trade 2020 first-round pick to Dolphins for DB Minkah Fitzpatrick, per Adam Schefter
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70182881_2611928775496660_7131414331647852544_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQk0OIMC0aa6LDevwsucdNRz4vykO1aI8nU72LFKSud tg7dZYLlSS45SGMK5RkLsSaM&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=de1a76cd89f72b4695073a485b6f4f61&oe=5DF10A40

Rara
09-16-2019, 10:19 PM
It sucks that it's a first round pick..but it was for a good purpose!! Just hope he replaces Davis now.

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:21 PM
Not a possible top 10 pick. I don’t agree with this.

pittpete
09-16-2019, 10:21 PM
This was a huge mistake by Colbert. We are not one player away from solving our problems. Plus I wouldn’t have given up a first round pick; a 2nd and a 3rd would have been my offer.

We dont have a 3rd bro
Would you want us to draft another Burns, Dupree or Jarvis?
This kid can play and is a top notch character guy from what i've read

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:21 PM
Not a possible top 10 pick. I donít agree with this.

Ernie
09-16-2019, 10:21 PM
taking a hell of a gamble that rudolph is their guy

Steelwolf
09-16-2019, 10:22 PM
Horrible pick....Tomlin burning the pit before he gone

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:24 PM
We dont have a 3rd bro
Would you want us to draft another Burns, Dupree or Jarvis?
This kid can play and is a top notch character guy from what i've read

We will get a compensatory 3rd round pick for Bell. Iím not trading a possible top 10 pick.

SteelBucks
09-16-2019, 10:25 PM
Holy crap I love this move! We finally have a safety! A good safety.

phillyesq
09-16-2019, 10:27 PM
If I thought the Steelers would be picking in the 20-32 range, I'd love this deal. But this could easily be a top 10-15 pick. I like this a lot less.

Ernie
09-16-2019, 10:27 PM
We dont have a 3rd bro
Would you want us to draft another Burns, Dupree or Jarvis?
This kid can play and is a top notch character guy from what i've read

hopefully we get a 3rd comp pick for bell

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:27 PM
We are not one player away from solving our problems. Our defense is terrible by schemes. This guy isn’t going to fix that.

NJ-STEELER
09-16-2019, 10:28 PM
wow, thats a dumb trade

I like the player but you're starting an inexperienced QB the rest of the season.
Possibly a top 10 pick. A place we don't draft often

SteelBucks
09-16-2019, 10:31 PM
We dont have a 3rd bro
Would you want us to draft another Burns, Dupree or Jarvis?
This kid can play and is a top notch character guy from what i've read

He was taken with pick #11 in last yearís draft. He proved he can play. Iím with you...I like the trade.

SteelBucks
09-16-2019, 10:34 PM
Love it, love it, love it! (I know I’m in the minority here but we may have solved our Safety problem for years.)

winwithd
09-16-2019, 10:35 PM
Maybe Colbert thinks we can get a first round pick for Ben before the next draft

Disco1981
09-16-2019, 10:35 PM
wow, thats a dumb trade

I like the player but you're starting an inexperienced QB the rest of the season.
Possibly a top 10 pick. A place we don't draft often

Ya...But we have him for 2 more years, plus an option..This signals the end for Davis

Buzz
09-16-2019, 10:36 PM
Glad to get Fitzpatrick, but this could end up looking really bad if we finish in the bottom 10 of the league.

Disco1981
09-16-2019, 10:37 PM
Bye Bye Artie? What can we realistically get for him? A fifth ?

And don't say of liquor ��

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:37 PM
Oh yeah, Davis is dead meat now.

Oh wow
09-16-2019, 10:39 PM
Awesome move. The guy is proven. This is what you want when you draft a DB in the first round.

Steelwolf
09-16-2019, 10:39 PM
Possible thought to use his services and if hes legit package him for some trade value...hope he pans out but I'm leery

SteelBucks
09-16-2019, 10:39 PM
80 tackles and 2 interceptions as a rookie last season. 12 tackles and a forced fumble this year. High price tag but your swapping a first round pick for a former first round pick who is still young. I like it!

(I know I’m going to get criticized but we have to start somewhere with fixing the defense)

Flasteel
09-16-2019, 10:43 PM
I like the move for one very salient reason. Everyone (including myself) is predicting doom and gloom after the horrible display of football-like play we have seen in the first two games and the injury. Going out and getting a talent like Fitzpatrick sends a message to the team and the fan base, that nobody is packing anything in. Whether this turns out to be good or bad, I like the move for the message it sends.

SteelBucks
09-16-2019, 10:45 PM
Ya...But we have him for 2 more years, plus an option..This signals the end for Davis

Davis may be done anyway. Heís getting an MRI on his shoulder injury.

Steelwolf
09-16-2019, 10:47 PM
I like the move for one very salient reason. Everyone (including myself) is predicting doom and gloom after the horrible display of football-like play we have seen in the first two games and the injury. Going out and getting a talent like Fitzpatrick sends a message to the team and the fan base, that nobody is packing anything in. Whether this turns out to be good or bad, I like the move for the message it sends.

Wow this is the best post this year...I'm frustrated and this opens some light

Moonie
09-16-2019, 10:49 PM
The guy plays on a defense that gave up 112 points in 2 games.

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:51 PM
80 tackles and 2 interceptions as a rookie last season. 12 tackles and a forced fumble this year. High price tag but your swapping a first round pick for a former first round pick who is still young. I like it!

(I know Iím going to get criticized but we have to start somewhere with fixing the defense)

We need to start by throwing out inferior schemes. Until we get rid of Butler and get a real DC, doesnít matter if we have Ronnie Lott & Ed Reed at safety.

raycafan
09-16-2019, 10:52 PM
Anyone hear about Davis injury, maybe he is going to IR too, thus the move

spyboots
09-16-2019, 10:52 PM
Love it....Build the defense up for Rudulph


:Clap:Agree:razz:

When Ben took over when Tommy got injured, he had a good defense to help out; good move for Mason,

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:53 PM
I like the move for one very salient reason. Everyone (including myself) is predicting doom and gloom after the horrible display of football-like play we have seen in the first two games and the injury. Going out and getting a talent like Fitzpatrick sends a message to the team and the fan base, that nobody is packing anything in. Whether this turns out to be good or bad, I like the move for the message it sends.

This is a great post; but I donít feel things will pan out in the cold light of reality.

AzStillers1989
09-16-2019, 10:55 PM
Love it, love it, love it! (I know I’m in the minority here but we may have solved our Safety problem for years.)

Don’t assume minority lmao. The ones who bark the loudest are often the most unhappy.

spyboots
09-16-2019, 10:58 PM
I like the move for one very salient reason. Everyone (including myself) is predicting doom and gloom after the horrible display of football-like play we have seen in the first two games and the injury. Going out and getting a talent like Fitzpatrick sends a message to the team and the fan base, that nobody is packing anything in. Whether this turns out to be good or bad, I like the move for the message it sends.

This needed to be said - THANK YOU!

Disco1981
09-16-2019, 10:58 PM
The guy plays on a defense that gave up 112 points in 2 games.

Nick Saban ( ya him ) Said he was the BEST defensive player he ever coached, and a great leader!

He just put on Twitter something to the effect " I'm not a quitter, never was, never will be...and I didn't want to be on a team that was tanking '

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 10:58 PM
Donít assume minority lmao. The ones who bark the loudest are often the most unhappy.

And ones who attack others because they have different opinions are often small minded.

spyboots
09-16-2019, 11:00 PM
Look at it this way.

We got our top 10 draft pick EARLY!

Steel Maniac
09-16-2019, 11:01 PM
Nick Saban ( ya him ) Said he was the BEST defensive player he ever coached, and a great leader!

He just put on Twitter something to the effect " I'm not a quitter, never was, never will be...and I didn't want to be on a team that was tanking '

Love that attitude.

AzStillers1989
09-16-2019, 11:03 PM
And ones who attack others because they have different opinions are often small minded.

attack? What sensitively level are you feeling right now? Lol I even added assumed laughter with the “lmao”.

whatever
09-16-2019, 11:04 PM
So we have no 1st or 3rd next year. Correct?

hawaiiansteel
09-16-2019, 11:05 PM
So we have no 1st or 3rd next year. Correct?

we should receive a 3rd round comp pick for Le'Veon Bell.

Starlifter
09-16-2019, 11:06 PM
seems like it could potentially be a high cost - but the truth is, we've squandered so many picks on DB's that didn't pan out - the idea of getting one that looks like a surefire hit make the trade look good to me.

I'm in favor.

Oh wow
09-16-2019, 11:09 PM
attack? What sensitively level are you feeling right now? Lol I even added assumed laughter with the ďlmaoĒ.

People who always see doom and gloom always feel attacked.

Then turn around and call people ball washers and other names.

For the record I love the aggressive move the FO is making.

No tanking in Pittsburgh.

whatever
09-16-2019, 11:10 PM
we should receive a 3rd round comp pick for Le'Veon Bell.

But we signed Nelson
And we don't seem to get any favors when it comes to receiving comp picks

NorthCoast
09-16-2019, 11:13 PM
seems like it could potentially be a high cost - but the truth is, we've squandered so many picks on DB's that didn't pan out - the idea of getting one that looks like a surefire hit make the trade look good to me.

I'm in favor.^I agree. The Steelers have a demonstrated poor history of drafting DB talent. How anyone can complain about this trade is beyond me. Colbert/Tomlin are not afraid to make changes when they see needs/opportunities.

Great job Colbert!

whatever
09-16-2019, 11:17 PM
Watch him hold out for a huge contract

brothervad
09-16-2019, 11:35 PM
You know for me it's not the trade that really bothers me as much it's the incompetent GM that has wasted so many picks on the DB space that required the use of a 1st round pick to make up for his serious shortcomings on assessing talent in the secondary.

But that's just me I guess...

btw he got other picks in the lower rounds to waste over the next 2 seasons...so there is that to look forward to.

brothervad

fordfixer
09-16-2019, 11:38 PM
BREAKING: Minkah Fitzpatrick traded to Steelers

Updated: Sep 16, 2019

On the heels of another young defensive stud requesting a trade, Minkah Fitzpatrick has had his wish granted.

The Miami Dolphins safety is being traded to the Steelers, along with a 2020 fourth-round pick and a 2021 seventh-round pick, in exchange for a first- and fifth-round pick in 2020 and 2021 sixth-round pick, per NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport.

The deal comes three days after the Fins granted Fitzpatrick and agent Joel Segal permission to seek a trade. Fitzpatrick joins Laremy Tunsil and Kenny Stills on a growing list of talented, young players that Miami has parted ways with in recent months in an effort to rebuild for the future.

Upon the completion of the trade, Miami will possess five first round picks over the next two NFL drafts: two of their own, two from the Texans (in the Tunsil/Stills deal) and, now, one from Pittsburgh.

Symptoms of the deteriorating relationship between Fitzpatrick and the Dolphins had been evident over the last couple months, dating back to mid-August during training camp when Fitzpatrick and his mother publicly commented on how the 2018 11th overall pick was being utilized.

"She's not wrong," Fitzpatrick said after his mother stated on Twitter that her son was being used to suit others' skill sets. "Coach has asked me do something right now. I got to do what they ask me to do. If we have to have some discussions in the future, we'll have those discussions."

The versatility Fitzpatrick showcased in his three years at Alabama made him a tantalizing prospect worthy of a high selection, but he expressed during camp that he didn't feel playing in the box best fit his talents. Head coach Brian Flores and defensive coordinator Patrick Graham seemed uninterested in changing up the gameplan.

Fast forward to the season opener against the Ravens and Fitzpatrick, who spent his rookie year playing safety, his natural position, and slot corner, was featured in several different roles in the Fins' blowout loss to the Ravens.

In Pittsburgh, Fitzpatrick will join a group that already features seven first rounders, including linebacker T.J. Watt, cornerback Joe Haden and fellow 2018 first-round pick safety Terrell Edmunds.

The big-time potential for Fitzpatrick to excel on a team known for their strong defenses is undeniable. He was one of seven rookies last year with 80+ total tackles and 2+ interceptions, per NFL research. Through the first two games of 2019, he has recorded 11 tackles and one forced fumble.

whatever
09-16-2019, 11:55 PM
8 first round starters, 2 seconds and a 3rd. Throw in a couple more 1sts as backups.
Yup, no talent to work with.

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2019, 12:02 AM
this is the first time we traded away our 1st round pick since before the Chuck Knoll era...

SS Laser
09-17-2019, 12:05 AM
8 first round starters, 2 seconds and a 3rd. Throw in a couple more 1sts as backups.
Yup, no talent to work with.
Draft position is no guarantee of anticipated talent at the pro level. See the many vastly talented late rd or Undrafted players. Or the tons of 1st rd busts.
Also many fans want Ben gone it sounds like. Well his fav coach BA is in Tampa and could roll the dice at draft time. BA needs a QB or 2.

BURGH86STEEL
09-17-2019, 12:07 AM
8 first round starters, 2 seconds and a 3rd. Throw in a couple more 1sts as backups.
Yup, no talent to work with.

Will you stop with your constant whining? Life cannot be this bad for you.

AzStillers1989
09-17-2019, 12:07 AM
this is the first time we traded away our 1st round pick since before the Chuck Knoll era...

Wow... told my wife (we are both 30 years old btw) that the Steelers never do this stuff.... didn’t realize it pre dates my conception!

Who was that trade for by the way?

BURGH86STEEL
09-17-2019, 12:16 AM
Draft position is no guarantee of anticipated talent at the pro level. See the many vastly talented late rd or Undrafted players. Or the tons of 1st rd busts.
Also many fans want Ben gone it sounds like. Well his fav coach BA is in Tampa and could roll the dice at draft time. BA needs a QB or 2.

This is true. Simply because not all drafts are created with equal or simlar amounts of talent.

(This is for the trolls information)
For example, a first round pick in 2017 might not be considered a first round pick if he were to wait until 2018 to enter the draft. That player might not get drafted until the 3rd round in 2018. Some drafts are just weak classes.

Teams generally have a majority of roster turnover every 4 or 5 seasons for different reasons.

NJ-STEELER
09-17-2019, 12:36 AM
Ya...But we have him for 2 more years, plus an option..This signals the end for Davis

its poor asset management. if the pick lands in the top 5, you can either draft a QB if Mason doesn't look like he can hack it, or if he shows he iss capable, hold the pick ransom for another QB starved team. we've seen lately what teams are willing to give up to get up that high.

AzStillers1989
09-17-2019, 12:43 AM
its poor asset management. if the pick lands in the top 5, you can either draft a QB if Mason doesn't look like he can hack it, or if he shows he iss capable, hold the pick ransom for another QB starved team. we've seen lately what teams are willing to give up to get up that high.

but you are also assuming this team losses 12+ games. Even with Ben injured this team should be able to win 6-8 games IMO with a wild card upside of 9. But I’m also a homer and a bit buzzed. Sorry for getting a hard on for this defensive minded move lol.

Steel Maniac
09-17-2019, 12:53 AM
but you are also assuming this team losses 12+ games. Even with Ben injured this team should be able to win 6-8 games IMO with a wild card upside of 9. But I’m also a homer and a bit buzzed. Sorry for getting a hard on for this defensive minded move lol.

Hey, I respect the upside that you see even thou I don’t agree that it will turn out the way you think.

NJ-STEELER
09-17-2019, 12:55 AM
but you are also assuming this team losses 12+ games. Even with Ben injured this team should be able to win 6-8 games IMO with a wild card upside of 9. But I’m also a homer and a bit buzzed. Sorry for getting a hard on for this defensive minded move lol.

I hope to hell that's true

but lets look at the facts. we're 0-2, history shows a 90% of the teams that start out 0-2 don't make the playoffs.
Mason will make his 1st career start next week.
this defense has given up an over 70% completion rate in the first 2 weeks. that's not picking on 1 guy over and over. will 1 player improve that?

and I liked the way mason looked yesterday, and like fitzpatrick the player. But if they didn't look at the possible negative ramifications of this deal, then they're not doing their job correctly (big shock)

if they win 6-7 games and that pick is in the teens, then I'll have no problem with this deal. That's a big if right now

AzStillers1989
09-17-2019, 01:33 AM
I hope to hell that's true

but lets look at the facts. we're 0-2, history shows a 90% of the teams that start out 0-2 don't make the playoffs.
Mason will make his 1st career start next week.
this defense has given up an over 70% completion rate in the first 2 weeks. that's not picking on 1 guy over and over. will 1 player improve that?

and I liked the way mason looked yesterday, and like fitzpatrick the player. But if they didn't look at the possible negative ramifications of this deal, then they're not doing their job correctly (big shock)

if they win 6-7 games and that pick is in the teens, then I'll have no problem with this deal. That's a big if right now

Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. Great QBs in the first two games with a lot of new parts trying to figure there place.

All im saying is I’m optimistic and inspired about this team for some odd reason... even more so now with the acquisition of Minkah.

Rara
09-17-2019, 01:47 AM
The guy plays on a defense that gave up 112 points in 2 games.

Joe Haden played with the Stains most of his career...look at him now.

hawaiiansteel
09-17-2019, 01:49 AM
if they win 6-7 games and that pick is in the teens, then I'll have no problem with this deal. That's a big if right now

our record will be 8-8 at least, remember Tomlin never has a losing record.

flippy
09-17-2019, 03:57 AM
Looks like Tomlin and Colbert think we're going 14-2 and winning #7 still. Glad to have them onboard.

flippy
09-17-2019, 04:30 AM
I can't even explain how much I love this trade.

I think we now have a perennial All Pro on D. A guy that teams will have to think about and changes everything we can do on D.

Even if we were to tank, this kid is a top 10 pick in just about any draft class. I remember someone having him as the best safety in the 2018 class and someone else having him rated the top CB in the class. The kid has versatility and is a play maker. He kinda reminds me of the Honey Badger in college with size and character.

I get forced to watch a lot of Alabama and can tell you this kid has just got "it". He's got the clutch gene and seems to come up big in big games.

If Bush and Edmunds reach their full potential and Shazier comes back in another year, our D could be insanely talented in short order. This is a huge get!!!!

flippy
09-17-2019, 05:04 AM
1 more fast fact. Minkah is 1 of 3 players in the history of college ball to win the Bednarik and Thorpe award in the same season. (Best D Player and Best DB)

The other 2 were Charles Woodson and Patrick Peterson.

Those 2 guys were top 5 picks.

So just a little more perspective on trading a high first round pick if that's what it becomes. This is still a good value trade for us no matter how you slice it.

Ernie
09-17-2019, 05:50 AM
seems like it could potentially be a high cost - but the truth is, we've squandered so many picks on DB's that didn't pan out - the idea of getting one that looks like a surefire hit make the trade look good to me.

I'm in favor.

its amazing how many high picks weve invested at DB.. and 3 of our top 4 guys are imports from other teams.

Ernie
09-17-2019, 05:56 AM
8 first round starters, 2 seconds and a 3rd. Throw in a couple more 1sts as backups.
Yup, no talent to work with.

thats the stuff that firings are made of right there

Terrapin
09-17-2019, 06:27 AM
I love the player. If Ben was still the QB, this would be absolutely awesome.

But we're going to be drafting in the top 10, and are banking on either Mason being the future, or a 38 yo QB coming back from major surgery for a year or two. Is Fitzpatrick more important than drafting a future franchise QB next year? Maybe.

Mr.wizard
09-17-2019, 06:36 AM
Everyone is sleeping on Rudolph, this guy can play, while losing Ben hurts, the situation isn't as bad as some are making it out to be. I am actually more concerned about our receivers they are really struggling to get open.

Terrapin
09-17-2019, 06:43 AM
Everyone is sleeping on Rudolph, this guy can play, while losing Ben hurts, the situation isn't as bad as some are making it out to be. I am actually more concerned about our receivers they are really struggling to get open.

Well, offensively, we have a completely unproven QB, no #2 WR, a RB that's always hurt, and are thin at TE. And now we have no #1 pick next year. We already have a defense littered with 1st rd picks (most of which are busts).

Like I said, if Ben wasn't hurt and we were even 1-1, this move is awesome. Now, it kinda reeks of desperation. Hopefully Mason's the real deal, and if we draft in the late teens, this move is great.

Oviedo
09-17-2019, 06:58 AM
I like the move for one very salient reason. Everyone (including myself) is predicting doom and gloom after the horrible display of football-like play we have seen in the first two games and the injury. Going out and getting a talent like Fitzpatrick sends a message to the team and the fan base, that nobody is packing anything in. Whether this turns out to be good or bad, I like the move for the message it sends.

I totally 100% agree. Demonstrates the organization isn't quitting on this season like the fans. IMO this is a great move and we have a very good player who we could have for a decade.

Northern_Blitz
09-17-2019, 07:07 AM
Not a possible top 10 pick. I don’t agree with this.

Yep

A deal like this would have made sense a week ago.

Trading away a 1st round pick that has a pretty good chance to be in the top 10 seems very stupid.

Ernie
09-17-2019, 07:09 AM
if rudolph is our guy.. then im fine with the trade.. problem is its a gamble at this point.

Northern_Blitz
09-17-2019, 07:14 AM
^I agree. The Steelers have a demonstrated poor history of drafting DB talent. How anyone can complain about this trade is beyond me. Colbert/Tomlin are not afraid to make changes when they see needs/opportunities.

Great job Colbert!

Getting a good safety is good.

Trading away the a pick that could reasonably be the next franchise QB is bad.

I think the reaction to this trade will depend on how bad people thing we'd be.

I think we were shaping up to be pretty bad with an unproven QB and an average at best D. Yesterday I was kind of excited about a year where we got to test out Rudolph, but if he failed maybe we end up with some kind of Manning to Luck transition (or Montana to Young for us older folks).

On the bright side, the Dolphins will probably get two very high picks so maybe someone else in that division ends up being competitive.

Mr.wizard
09-17-2019, 07:15 AM
Well, offensively, we have a completely unproven QB, no #2 WR, a RB that's always hurt, and are thin at TE. And now we have no #1 pick next year. We already have a defense littered with 1st rd picks (most of which are busts).

Like I said, if Ben wasn't hurt and we were even 1-1, this move is awesome. Now, it kinda reeks of desperation. Hopefully Mason's the real deal, and if we draft in the late teens, this move is great.

I dont think its desperation, i think it says they believe Rudolph is the real deal and this year is not dead. Rudolph did throw 2 Td's against that Hawks defense and if the defense could of made a stop down the stretch we win that game.

Northern_Blitz
09-17-2019, 07:25 AM
I think it means they think Ben will come back and play till the end of his contract.

The Man of Steel
09-17-2019, 07:32 AM
Fitzpatrick is only 22 so I kind of feel like we’re just getting next year’s first round draft pick right now.

SteelBucks
09-17-2019, 07:35 AM
Fitzpatrick is only 22 so I kind of feel like we’re just getting next year’s first round draft pick right now.

Exactly. We’re giving up a potential top 10 pick for a player that I would have loved to select in the top 10. We’ve been searching for a good safety...we just found one.

SteelBucks
09-17-2019, 07:44 AM
Fitzpatrick is only 22 so I kind of feel like we’re just getting next year’s first round draft pick right now.

Exactly. We’re giving up a potential top 10 pick for a player that I would have loved to select in the top 10. We’ve been searching for a good safety...we just found one.

Northern_Blitz
09-17-2019, 07:47 AM
Was early when I read this and I thought it meant we traded our first for R. Fitz, which would have been obviously catastrophic

Ernie
09-17-2019, 07:49 AM
Was early when I read this and I thought it meant we traded our first for R. Fitz, which would have been obviously catastrophic

i thought the same thing.. lol

SidSmythe
09-17-2019, 07:52 AM
Oh My Goodness People!!
No, you're not getting STAR players "on the cheap" here.
He was the 11th overall pick - worthy of any position the Steelers will be drafting next year!!
Excellent - Steelers get a proven player for a potential player in the future!

Oviedo
09-17-2019, 07:58 AM
Oh My Goodness People!!
No, you're not getting STAR players "on the cheap" here.
He was the 11th overall pick - worthy of any position the Steelers will be drafting next year!!
Excellent - Steelers get a proven player for a potential player in the future!
+1...It is unbelieveable how some just want to complain. As stated he was the #11 player from last year's draft. We got the #10 from this year's. But yet some want to project a pick that they have no idea who it could be and complain. Just too many cry babies.

flippy
09-17-2019, 08:00 AM
Vince Williams loves the trade. It'll spare him the weekly embarrassment of having to cover the opposing team's #1 WR 1 on 1.

Bush and Barron like it too now that we'll have someone to cover RBs and TEs that they can't keep up with.

Oviedo
09-17-2019, 08:02 AM
I can't even explain how much I love this trade.

I think we now have a perennial All Pro on D. A guy that teams will have to think about and changes everything we can do on D.

Even if we were to tank, this kid is a top 10 pick in just about any draft class. I remember someone having him as the best safety in the 2018 class and someone else having him rated the top CB in the class. The kid has versatility and is a play maker. He kinda reminds me of the Honey Badger in college with size and character.

I get forced to watch a lot of Alabama and can tell you this kid has just got "it". He's got the clutch gene and seems to come up big in big games.

If Bush and Edmunds reach their full potential and Shazier comes back in another year, our D could be insanely talented in short order. This is a huge get!!!!

I'm 100% with you. We now have to potential perenial Pro Bowl players in Fitzpatrick and Bush. Add in Watt andwe have some real talent on defense. Isn't that what the majority of this board has been bitching and whing about for the past 5 years?

Where we disagree is with Shazier. He is never playing football again. The legal and liability, plus probably moral, issues for the Steelers will prevent that from happening

Ernie
09-17-2019, 08:08 AM
yea... i hate to admit but shazier isnt coming back. the last few times ive seen him move around... hes still got a "Hitch in his giddy up" lol

SidSmythe
09-17-2019, 08:10 AM
Lets NOT forget that Mike Hilton and Sean Davis are gone next year - I really don't see the Steelers picking in the Top 8 next year so I'm happy!

Ghost
09-17-2019, 08:11 AM
If Fitzpatrick works out, the Steelers should just plan to trade their #1 every 5 to 7 years to get a DB. Let other teams draft our secondary so we avoid years such as 2016 when they went with Burns and Davis as the first 2. Problem solved...

Oh wow
09-17-2019, 08:27 AM
I dont think its desperation, i think it says they believe Rudolph is the real deal and this year is not dead. Rudolph did throw 2 Td's against that Hawks defense and if the defense could of made a stop down the stretch we win that game.

We moved up to get Mason and we traded Dobbs. Mason looked better than any other QB who has relieved Ben except for Batch.... but Mason throws a much better ball.

Other players sound excited for Mason too.

Vance said there are no surprises with Mason.

DeCastro said there won’t be any drama. I wonder what that means? LOL

I had reservations about crowning Mason too early but he came in and looked like a leader.

I’m excited.

Oh wow
09-17-2019, 08:31 AM
If Fitzpatrick works out, the Steelers should just plan to trade their #1 every 5 to 7 years to get a DB. Let other teams draft our secondary so we avoid years such as 2016 when they went with Burns and Davis as the first 2. Problem solved...

I’ve said in the past we need to acquire proven DB’s in FA. Let other teams gamble on them early in the draft.

I know draft gurus always think a first round pick will be an automatic superstar but it’s a crap shoot.

With our history of drafting and developing DB’s.. hell, with everyone’s history of drafting and developing DB’s it’s probably best to poach proven players at this position.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-17-2019, 08:34 AM
I'm Good with this trade especially with Davis going to miss considerable time. You get a 22 year old Top 10-15 talent who took an NFL test drive. On top of that..got dolphins 4th which pencil in as a 3rd for someone who falls out of 3rd at Top of 4. Throw our 5th & still have a 5 Which will be Top of 5th same value as above. Honestly...The only way I see this as a bad trade is if the pick ends up inside Top 8.

Look..All they did is skip the podium in 2020 draft. Davis is gone & more then likely S would of been pick. Pick is in the 15-20 range worse case. They have confidence in MR & this tells me they feel BB will return. They were not drafting a franchise QB unless they had to being in Top 5 & they do not see themselves there. They need to slow teams down now keep points off board..Good Move.

Oviedo
09-17-2019, 08:38 AM
Lets NOT forget that Mike Hilton and Sean Davis are gone next year - I really don't see the Steelers picking in the Top 8 next year so I'm happy!

I think they will find a way to keep Hilton on a team friendly deal. He is probably one of the more productive DBs. I do think Davis will be gone

flippy
09-17-2019, 08:42 AM
We moved up to get Mason and we traded Dobbs. Mason looked better than any other QB who has relieved Ben except for Batch.... but Mason throws a much better ball.

Other players sound excited for Mason too.

Vance said there are no surprises with Mason.

DeCastro said there won’t be any drama. I wonder what that means? LOL

I had reservations about crowning Mason too early but he came in and looked like a leader.

I’m excited.

Mason doesn't have Ben's arm, but he has insane touch on deep balls and has a knack for dropping balls in where only his guy can catch it.

I think people are going to be surprised that Mason might actually make Washington, Johnson, Moncrief, and Holton better quicker than Ben because all those guys have the speed to get open deep and Mason is going to more consistently drop catchable balls on them when they do.

Where Mason will struggle is throwing a 15 yard out to the opposite side of the field and some of those balls might float and get intercepted. I also see a little struggle with crisp passes in rain/wind like we are used to with Ben. It's all good though. We're just going to have to get used to them being slightly different QBs.

Another area that could create challenges is Ds will shorten the field they defend because Mason doesn't have Ben's arm strength. But on the flip side, I think we can become more efficient in the red zone and on a shorter field and it can be a wash. Maybe?

Oviedo
09-17-2019, 08:46 AM
Mason doesn't have Ben's arm, but he has insane touch on deep balls and has a knack for dropping balls in where only his guy can catch it.

I think people are going to be surprised that Mason might actually make Washington, Johnson, Moncrief, and Holton better quicker than Ben because all those guys have the speed to get open deep and Mason is going to more consistently drop catchable balls on them when they do.

Where Mason will struggle is throwing a 15 yard out to the opposite side of the field and some of those balls might float and get intercepted. I also see a little struggle with crisp passes in rain/wind like we are used to with Ben. It's all good though. We're just going to have to get used to them being slightly different QBs.

Another area that could create challenges is Ds will shorten the field they defend because Mason doesn't have Ben's arm strength. But on the flip side, I think we can become more efficient in the red zone and on a shorter field and it can be a wash. Maybe?

I think you will see Mason getting rid of the ball quicker and letting the WRs get YAC versus Ben holding the ball for big plays. It actually could make the offense more challenging to defend against.

It would be nice if we had a quality #2 TE to be an additional security blanket for MR

flippy
09-17-2019, 08:50 AM
I think you will see Mason getting rid of the ball quicker and letting the WRs get YAC versus Ben holding the ball for big plays. It actually could make the offense more challenging to defend against.

It would be nice if we had a quality #2 TE to be an additional security blanket for MR

We have Samuels that can play in an HBack role.

whatever
09-17-2019, 08:52 AM
Great trade. The problem still remains. Tomlin and Butler.
I wonder how many other defenses, that are better than ours, have more 1st rounders.
Can this defense stay together long enough for us to have all 11?

phillyesq
09-17-2019, 09:31 AM
+1...It is unbelieveable how some just want to complain. As stated he was the #11 player from last year's draft. We got the #10 from this year's. But yet some want to project a pick that they have no idea who it could be and complain. Just too many cry babies.

What's the point of having a message board if you're just going to hit your knees and worship every move the team makes with no analysis or discussion?

phillyesq
09-17-2019, 09:33 AM
I think you will see Mason getting rid of the ball quicker and letting the WRs get YAC versus Ben holding the ball for big plays. It actually could make the offense more challenging to defend against.

It would be nice if we had a quality #2 TE to be an additional security blanket for MR

Bruce Arians hasn't been the OC for a long time. Ben threw more passes at or behind the line of scrimmage than any QB last year. But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

phillyesq
09-17-2019, 09:41 AM
I'm Good with this trade especially with Davis going to miss considerable time. You get a 22 year old Top 10-15 talent who took an NFL test drive. On top of that..got dolphins 4th which pencil in as a 3rd for someone who falls out of 3rd at Top of 4. Throw our 5th & still have a 5 Which will be Top of 5th same value as above. Honestly...The only way I see this as a bad trade is if the pick ends up inside Top 8.

Look..All they did is skip the podium in 2020 draft. Davis is gone & more then likely S would of been pick. Pick is in the 15-20 range worse case. They have confidence in MR & this tells me they feel BB will return. They were not drafting a franchise QB unless they had to being in Top 5 & they do not see themselves there. They need to slow teams down now keep points off board..Good Move.

I like the trade better after seeing the fourth and fifth round picks flipped. Fitzpatrick is a great talent. The Steelers now have potentially 3 stars on defense. Watt is there, and Fitzpatrick and Bush have the potential to be there as well. With all the talent on defense, that unit has to show better results.

I still think this trade is a huge gamble on Mason Rudolph. It's also a gamble on Washington and/or Johnson stepping up and becoming a legit #2 WR. Yes, I understand that the Steelers have, in essence, already made their pick for next year and taken a sure fire talent. But the Steelers are going all-in on a team that has shown itself to be very limited offensively before losing a HOF quarterback. It's a huge gamble.

If the Steelers finish this season 8-8 or better (which seems ambitious as they are staring down a likely 0-3 start) this will be a big win. But if they end up with a top 10 pick next year, it might not look nearly as good.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-17-2019, 09:55 AM
great analysis philly

agree w all of it

Eddie Spaghetti
09-17-2019, 10:05 AM
i would feel alot better if we had a competent DC

it's my opinion that butler is an idiot

Steel Maniac
09-17-2019, 10:09 AM
i would feel alot better if we had a competent DC

it's my opinion that butler is an idiot

This is where I"m at as well. I think our scheme is more of the problem then the talent.

SidSmythe
09-17-2019, 10:11 AM
This is where I"m at as well. I think our scheme is more of the problem then the talent.

I agree
However when it's time to put in the right scheme wont it be nice to have a potential All Pro in the secondary w/ versatility?? He's here for 4 yrs at least

Steel Maniac
09-17-2019, 10:15 AM
I agree
However when it's time to put in the right scheme wont it be nice to have a potential All Pro in the secondary w/ versatility?? He's here for 4 yrs at least

No doubt it's nice to have a certified stud back there. But Colbert is only treating the symptoms; he's not addressing the real cause of the problem and the problem is Butler and the defensive schemes.

**I like that Colbert is in a fixing mood, can he also fix the O-line? Because we haven't been able to run the ball either.

steelz09
09-17-2019, 10:29 AM
This will probably surprise a few but I like the aggressiveness with this move. With that said, it's a helluva risk.

It COMPLETELY backfires if the Steelers suck to the point that we get a Top 10 pick.

It's a good deal if we are a middle to late round pick.

It show a lot of faith in Rudolph long term.

It shows that the Steelers do NOT think they are in rebuild mode.

It also show's a lot of faith in Ben returning for the remainder of his contract. This move reminds me of the Broncos making moves to try to get the talent around Peyton Manning to make one last SB run. Fitzpatrick in addition to another couple offensive weapons (WR, TE, RB) should do the trick. I've always been critical of the Steelers not make that 1 move that could get them that SB. It's going to take more than Fitzpatrick but I don't think we are that far away. Like I mentioned, I do think we need some more speed at the above positions but I think we can hit on those easier in the draft.

We are a lot more successful drafting WR, TE and RB than we are with the secondary.

Trading up from the bottom of the mid-to-bottom of the 1st to #11 during the draft to get a guy like Fitzpatrick will cost us more than what we gave up.

Did I mention, we suck at drafting CB/S?

Fitzpatrick is more of a known commodity.

Fitzpatrick is under his rookie contract.

Now, Tomlin has EIGHT..... EIGHT 1st round picks on defense. Being a secondary/defensive coach, I don't know what else you could possibly want.

Eich
09-17-2019, 10:35 AM
i would feel alot better if we had a competent DC

it's my opinion that butler is an idiot

Sadly, I don't disagree. He has to be more intelligent than he looks and sounds. But neither of those things do his image any favors.

flippy
09-17-2019, 11:05 AM
Sadly, I don't disagree. He has to be more intelligent than he looks and sounds. But neither of those things do his image any favors.

Sadly, sometimes I think we play like he sounds.

AzStillers1989
09-17-2019, 11:16 AM
Sadly, sometimes I think we play like he sounds.

Dadgummit!!!!

RuthlessBurgher
09-17-2019, 11:28 AM
To sum up our 2020 draft as I see it right now (let me know if I'm missing anything here):

It appears that we still will have 7 picks overall right now (assuming that we do get the 3rd round comp pick for Bell).

Subtractions:
Our 2020 first round pick now belongs to Miami as a part of the Minkah Fitzpatrick trade.
Our 2020 third round pick now belongs to Denver as a part of the Devin Bush trade.

Additions:
We should get a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round as a result of Le'Veon Bell signing with the Jets.
We received Jacksonville's 2020 fifth round pick in the Josh Dobbs trade.

Flip-flops:
We get Miami's very early fourth round pick in 2020 in exchange for our fifth round pick in 2020.

Should look like this:
#2 (PIT)
#3 (COMP)
#4 (MIA)
#4 (PIT)
#5 (JAX)
#6 (PIT)
#7 (PIT)

Do I have that right?

NorthCoast
09-17-2019, 12:05 PM
I hope to hell that's true

but lets look at the facts. we're 0-2, history shows a 90% of the teams that start out 0-2 don't make the playoffs.
Mason will make his 1st career start next week.
this defense has given up an over 70% completion rate in the first 2 weeks. that's not picking on 1 guy over and over. will 1 player improve that?

and I liked the way mason looked yesterday, and like fitzpatrick the player. But if they didn't look at the possible negative ramifications of this deal, then they're not doing their job correctly (big shock)

if they win 6-7 games and that pick is in the teens, then I'll have no problem with this deal. That's a big if right now

You should know better; one player can definitely change things, does Troy ring a bell?

papillon
09-17-2019, 12:31 PM
If I thought the Steelers would be picking in the 20-32 range, I'd love this deal. But this could easily be a top 10-15 pick. I like this a lot less.

So, if the Steelers draft at any position after 1.10 in 2020 they actually make out in this deal, the Dolphins drafted Fitzpatrick at 1.11. The Broncos drafted 10th last season and were 6-10, the Steelers are going to win more than 6 games this year. This team is not a dumpster fire. There's talent, some of it is young, but there's talent. Rudolph just needs to play within himself and not try to do too much. I like it, a known commodity, so the Steelers took their 2020 #1 pick 7 months early.

Pappy

Shawn
09-17-2019, 12:43 PM
As long as Mason pans out, I'm going to like this trade. Don't we all complain about our porous secondary? Then complain when the organization makes a strong move to fix it? Now, if Mason is a slug then I will call for heads. And that's because this would have been the year to replace Ben. And the organization should know what they have in Mason. I think this trade and the cutting of Dobbs shows us exactly what the organization thinks they have in Mason.

flippy
09-17-2019, 01:03 PM
So, if the Steelers draft at any position after 1.10 in 2020 they actually make out in this deal, the Dolphins drafted Fitzpatrick at 1.11. The Broncos drafted 10th last season and were 6-10, the Steelers are going to win more than 6 games this year. This team is not a dumpster fire. There's talent, some of it is young, but there's talent. Rudolph just needs to play within himself and not try to do too much. I like it, a known commodity, so the Steelers took their 2020 #1 pick 7 months early.

Pappy

There's a couple ways I look at this.

1. 1st round draft picks are 50/50
2. Minkah is 22 and we got him cheap for several more years
3. There's arguably no better DB in college football this year. There's only 2 guys in the history of college football that had his level of success in Patrick Peterson and Charles Woodson. Minkah is very unique.
4. Alabama produces great NFLers. According to their coach, Minkah is the best defensive player he's ever coached.
5. There are a lot of people that argue he's the best slot CB in the game currently. He's so well rounded. He can play man, he can play zone, he's smart, he's hard working, and he's fearless and will make tackles.
6. Even if we get a top 5 pick, Minkah is better than top 5 talent because he's a proven commodity, not 50/50.
7. Is there a can't miss QB in this year's draft? I'm not sure there's anyone better than Mason. And the Steelers must have considered this as well.

Bottom line. Proven players are always worth more than draft picks which are never a given. Add in our track record of selecting DBs and it seems like people should love this move. And I think most will in time.

whatever
09-17-2019, 01:16 PM
Quit trying to rationalize this move based on where he was drafted and where we might draft.
That means nothing.
Look at the proven talent acquired and what was given up for him.
The guy is producing equal to or more than and early first round pick.

NJ-STEELER
09-17-2019, 08:18 PM
You should know better; one player can definitely change things, does Troy ring a bell?
better hope he's at least close.

getting burned for 3 TDs vs. the ravens doesn't look good.

he also told miami he didn't want to play safety. either corner or slot corner.

and now we're playing him at free safety. is he going to like that?

NorthCoast
09-17-2019, 08:28 PM
better hope he's at least close.

getting burned for 3 TDs vs. the ravens doesn't look good.

he also told miami he didn't want to play safety. either corner or slot corner.

and now we're playing him at free safety. is he going to like that?NJ, I have to assume the Steelers had that discussion with him and he was OK with it. He doesn't want to play in the box because he is not that big. At FS, that shouldn't be an issue. The last thing the Steelers want is another malcontent. I give the Steelers FO a bit more credit on doing their homework before such a deal (doesn't always work out, aka Burnett, but I don't think they intentionally try to fleece a player).

fordfixer
09-17-2019, 10:30 PM
To sum up our 2020 draft as I see it right now (let me know if I'm missing anything here):

It appears that we still will have 7 picks overall right now (assuming that we do get the 3rd round comp pick for Bell).

Subtractions:
Our 2020 first round pick now belongs to Miami as a part of the Minkah Fitzpatrick trade.
Our 2020 third round pick now belongs to Denver as a part of the Devin Bush trade.

Additions:
We should get a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round as a result of Le'Veon Bell signing with the Jets.
We received Jacksonville's 2020 fifth round pick in the Josh Dobbs trade.

Flip-flops:
We get Miami's very early fourth round pick in 2020 in exchange for our fifth round pick in 2020.

Should look like this:
#2 (PIT)
#3 (COMP)
#4 (MIA)
#4 (PIT)
#5 (JAX)
#6 (PIT)
#7 (PIT)

Do I have that right?
That sounds right, but it could be wrong.:p

SidSmythe
09-17-2019, 11:10 PM
What about the 6th Round pick for Gilbert from AZ?

hawaiiansteel
09-18-2019, 01:17 AM
That sounds right, but it could be wrong.:p

it is :wink: , just like when Ruthless predicted Conner would never amount to a hill of beans :stirpot

Northern_Blitz
09-18-2019, 05:47 AM
Quit trying to rationalize this move based on where he was drafted and where we might draft.
That means nothing.
Look at the proven talent acquired and what was given up for him.
The guy is producing equal to or more than and early first round pick.

I think this is true.

I think the only way we lose this trade is if we end up sucking and miss out on a franchise QB with the pick we traded.

Unfortunately, I think that the likelihood of that happening isn't negligible. I would have thought it was last week when Ben wasn't injured because even if he's regressing I don't think we're bad enough with him under center.

I wouldn't have placed this bet now because the downside is too costly / likely for me. I think I would have done it before Ben got hurt (but still felt bad about giving up a mid to late first round pick).

The lost year of a cheap deal isn't nothing, but if he's a probowl / all pro player I don't think it's too important (especially since we're generally good at resigning players we want to keep).

But, I'll still hope Mason leads us to at least a middling finish and it's a moot point.

Mr.wizard
09-18-2019, 07:19 AM
I was listening to espn radio, they metioned a stat that only 25% of first round picks end up signing a second contract. If that stat is true then this trade is without question a good deal, regardless of where the Steelers pick.

Northern_Blitz
09-18-2019, 08:53 AM
I was listening to espn radio, they metioned a stat that only 25% of first round picks end up signing a second contract. If that stat is true then this trade is without question a good deal, regardless of where the Steelers pick.

I would have thought that number was higher.

It maybe puts the "all our D is 1st round picks" argument in a different perspective.

Sword
09-18-2019, 08:56 AM
We are not one player away from solving our problems. Our defense is terrible by schemes. This guy isnít going to fix that.
We are two coaches away maybe! :)

flippy
09-18-2019, 08:59 AM
I would have thought that number was higher.

It maybe puts the "all our D is 1st round picks" argument in a different perspective.

Or you could argue out picks are the reason the rate is so low.

SidSmythe
09-18-2019, 09:11 AM
How many don't sign a 2nd contract simply b/c they're busts or have vastly underperformed?
Teams have 5 yrs to determine - I can't think of any 1st Round pick for the Steelers who performed and didn't sign a Veteran Contract after their 5th year.

Oh wow
09-18-2019, 09:25 AM
I would have thought that number was higher.

It maybe puts the "all our D is 1st round picks" argument in a different perspective.

Draft is a crap shoot. Draft gurus love it because they think every first round draft pick is instant Hofer but that’s not the reality.

The reality is most of these guys aren’t going to pan out.

I think it’s always better to get a proven player than a draft pick. It’s more expensive but you know what you are getting.

Draft picks are exciting because you have a ton of college tape and hope he plays the same way in the pros but you never know.

It’s like starting a new business bs buying into a franchise. The news biz is probably more exciting but has a larger fail rate. A franchise usually has a much higher guarantee due to a proven biz model.

Northern_Blitz
09-18-2019, 10:19 AM
Or you could argue out picks are the reason the rate is so low.

Maybe I misinterpreted the stat Wizard put out. I assumed that was 25% across the league (not just on the Steelers).

If it's just us and the league is much higher then I'd agree with your assessment (that scouting, decision making, and / or coaching is screwing up somewhere)

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2019, 11:50 AM
What about the 6th Round pick for Gilbert from AZ?

That trade was made about a month-and-a-half prior to the 2019 draft, so that pick has already been used.

It got us Ulysses Gilbert.

So we traded one Gilbert and got ourselves a different Gilbert with that pick.

In other Marcus Gilbert news, he tore his ACL last week and the Cards placed him on I.R.

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2019, 11:51 AM
it is :wink: , just like when Ruthless predicted Conner would never amount to a hill of beans :stirpot

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsIPQpoXcAARfL-.jpg

NorthCoast
09-18-2019, 01:08 PM
My 2 min. Check found in the last 20 yrs 1st rd players starting at least 80 gms; 257 out of 667 picks

The details might move that % lower, so it's plausible.

Northern_Blitz
09-18-2019, 02:25 PM
My 2 min. Check found in the last 20 yrs 1st rd players starting at least 80 gms; 257 out of 667 picks

The details might move that % lower, so it's plausible.

That's surprising. Again, I would have thought the number was higher.

I wonder if the difference between the 25% above and the 39% in your data here is that the 25% is something like "signed a second contract with the same team"?

If that's the case, someone like Bud will probably be in the 75% of players who don't get signed back to their original team but he could be signed by another team and get to 80 games started (he's at 41 now and probably will get to 55 this year without injury or demotion).

Mr.wizard
09-18-2019, 03:14 PM
That's surprising. Again, I would have thought the number was higher.

I wonder if the difference between the 25% above and the 39% in your data here is that the 25% is something like "signed a second contract with the same team"?

If that's the case, someone like Bud will probably be in the 75% of players who don't get signed back to their original team but he could be signed by another team and get to 80 games started (he's at 41 now and probably will get to 55 this year without injury or demotion).

Could be i dont remember the entire context of the conversation.

pittpete
09-18-2019, 03:30 PM
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71225648_3641594299200064_3448001845467807744_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQlyyqo1GCgQpXkBSx3W_XgYiFgdxDKPS4soyiVqj4n gpjUR15b9dwQkPR70-MwZCIU&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=196f9e53e50a62620cc39362e0e84f48&oe=5E383248