WR Michael Thomas gets 5 yr, $100M w/$61M guaranteed

[Eich]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/saints-wr-michael-thomas-agree-to-recordbreaking-contract-extension-124456471.html

$20M per year for a receiver. That's just crazy money for a wr. Mr. big chest must be feeling a blonde mustache moment about now.

[AzStillers1989]

Lmao ridiculous.

[Oviedo]

Lmao ridiculous.

You won't be laughing when that is what we have to pay to keep JuJu in the next 18-24 months.

[Oh wow]

You won't be laughing when that is what we have to pay to keep JuJu in the next 18-24 months.

They will surely want us to move on to the next rookie WR.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

They will surely want us to move on to the next rookie WR.

like you would like to move on from Ben and start dobbs or rudolph?

see how this works

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

This just in: Antonio Brown sitting out in Oakland in a bid to renegotiate his contract. According to Brown, his "archaic" contract represents "nothing more than slave wages" and he will not report back until he receives a deal that pays him "market value" including back pay "for all the many years that this organization underpaid me".

More to come as this story develops.

[Eich]

How can any team afford to pay a receiver, quarterback money and stay competitive?

[Eddie Spaghetti]

pay the QB

it should be pretty obvious by now. Ben has made alot of guys alot of $$ over the years

I've lost count of all the WRs to get paid somewhere else and we still can plug and play receivers

[Steel Maniac]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/saints-wr-michael-thomas-agree-to-recordbreaking-contract-extension-124456471.html

$20M per year for a receiver. That's just crazy money for a wr. Mr. big chest must be feeling a blonde mustache moment about now.

hahahahahahaha..good one!

[Steel Maniac]

like you would like to move on from Ben and start dobbs or rudolph?

see how this works

boom!!!!!!!!!

[Steel Maniac]

pay the QB

it should be pretty obvious by now. Ben has made alot of guys alot of $$ over the years

I've lost count of all the WRs to get paid somewhere else and we still can plug and play receivers

Exactly. Should be obvious to everybody by now that great QB's for the most part make great WR's.

I

[AzStillers1989]

Exactly. Should be obvious to everybody by now that great QB's for the most part make great WR's.

I

Exactly why laughed. Thomas is excellent. But damn how can he be worth 20$mill per?!?

[NorthCoast]

Bwaahhaaaahaaaa

"Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"

[NorthCoast]

I just did the math; $61M guaranteed over 5 yrs at about 120 catches a season is a hair over $100,000 a catch.

... hard to swallow...

[Oh wow]

like you would like to move on from Ben and start dobbs or rudolph?

see how this works

Hell yeah. We haven’t won much since we paid Ben a ton.

Save that money, play the young QB’s and if they suck we get a high draft pick for a QB.

[Oh wow]

I just did the math; $61M guaranteed over 5 yrs at about 120 catches a season is a hair over $100,000 a catch.

... hard to swallow...

Now do that for QB’s and TD passes.

Any way you slice it a high paid player is going to make stupid money when you average it out.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Hell yeah. We haven’t won much since we paid Ben a ton.

Save that money, play the young QB’s and if they suck we get a high draft pick for a QB.

this is one of the dumber things I've ever read

see how much we win without Ben

[Steel Maniac]

this is one of the dumber things I've ever read

see how much we win without Ben

His hate for Ben knows no rational.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Entertainers of all ilks are over paid. Or maybe they are not? That's the price we place on the value of entertainment.

Thomas is a great player that far out produced his rookie contract. He was an integral part in the Saint's success. Why can't people simply be happy for the man?

[hawaiiansteel]

Thomas is a great player that far out produced his rookie contract. He was an integral part in the Saint's success. Why can't people simply be happy for the man?

since I'm not a Saints fan, I'm very happy for him...

[NorthCoast]

Entertainers of all ilks are over paid. Or maybe they are not? That's the price we place on the value of entertainment.

Thomas is a great player that far out produced his rookie contract. He was an integral part in the Saint's success. Why can't people simply be happy for the man?

Saints are in the same boat as the Steelers. Gotta go all-in, with Brees nearing the end of his career. But it was an interesting quote that came from Colbert the other day... "I don't think we'll ever sell out to win now".... You have to wonder if the LBell and AB drama has changed their approach to how they will build around their franchise QB.

[Oh wow]

this is one of the dumber things I've ever read

see how much we win without Ben

See how much we win without Tomlin.

It’s foolish to act like the ONLY reason we win is because of Ben.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

he's a hell of alot more reason we win than mike tomlin

seems I remember him winning his first 13 games as a starter and a SB before tomlin showed up

you really are delusional when it comes to Ben. it's really strange

[Oh wow]

he's a hell of alot more reason we win than mike tomlin

seems I remember him winning his first 13 games as a starter and a SB before tomlin showed up

you really are delusional when it comes to Ben. it's really strange

Ben doesn’t play defense.

Delusion is thinking Ben won those games by himself.

He was a rookie on a stacked team.

I think we are in rebuilding mode.

I appreciate what Ben has done in the past but he hasn’t done it for a long time.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

but tomlin has, right?

interesting

[Oh wow]

but tomlin has, right?

interesting

Tomlin hasn’t won as much lately but his shelf life as a head coach is much longer than a player.

Tomlin is still young for a HC.

[Steel Maniac]

he's a hell of alot more reason we win than mike tomlin

seems I remember him winning his first 13 games as a starter and a SB before tomlin showed up

you really are delusional when it comes to Ben. it's really strange

................

[Northern_Blitz]

this is one of the dumber things I've ever read

see how much we win without Ben

I don't think it's the right way to go, but there's a reasonable argument if winning the SB is all you care about.

In that case, a good QB on a rookie deal is the best way to go (outside of having Brady and BB).

But it's not the way the Steelers measure success. They want a consistently competitive team that almost always has a chance to win. Having a very good to elite QB will do that better than cycling through young guys who are more than likely going to fail.

[Northern_Blitz]

he's a hell of alot more reason we win than mike tomlin

seems I remember him winning his first 13 games as a starter and a SB before tomlin showed up

you really are delusional when it comes to Ben. it's really strange

This is my argument as well.

Success (and failure) is about player execution more than coaching (outside of NE at least).

QB play is head and shoulders more important than any other position.

QB play drives success (and failure) more than coaching.

[Oh wow]

This is my argument as well.

Success (and failure) is about player execution more than coaching (outside of NE at least).

QB play is head and shoulders more important than any other position.

QB play drives success (and failure) more than coaching.

People like to point out the lack of SB appearances the last 8 years and point to Tomlin as the reason why.

But who was the QB all those years?

I hope Ben proves me wrong and brings home another one but I think the window is about to close or may already be closed.

[Steel Maniac]

I don't think it's the right way to go, but there's a reasonable argument if winning the SB is all you care about.

In that case, a good QB on a rookie deal is the best way to go (outside of having Brady and BB).

But it's not the way the Steelers measure success. They want a consistently competitive team that almost always has a chance to win. Having a very good to elite QB will do that better than cycling through young guys who are more than likely going to fail.

The ultimate job of an organization is to ultimately reward it's fans (fan base)

When you have a team that is " consistently competitive", I see the value in that. No doubt. But after so long of being " consistently competitive", you have to make it a priority to reward the fan base with a championship. You can't just keep saying that being "consistently competitive" is enough and everyone should be happy about that.

For example, .. The Rams have been competitive now for the last two years. But it's not good enough for them down here. The fan base wants them to go all in and do what it takes to bring home the trophy.

Now let's go to us....We have had "consistently competitive" teams for the last 8 years. We've been very close; So close that all we've needed is an "adequate defense" and we'd have made at least one Super Bowl appearance in the last 8 years. But the defense (especially the secondary) has been sub par and the offense has carried this team by and large for this period.

Are you telling me that a fan base that has had a "consistently competitive " team for 8 years should just sit and be content with that? If so, I disagree. There comes a point that you fix the little shortcomings your team has and get over the hump. 8 years of just being " consistently competitive" and we should just be happy with that????? Especially with the career of a franchise QB winding down???

There's no difference in being 4th every year or 31st every year if all your content to be is 4th every year.

We have a good team but with proper adjustments, this could be a championship team. But that's been the case for years now.

I understand what your saying about "constantly being competitive; but you can't forever be happy always being a bridesmaid and never trying to be a bride.

[Oh wow]

Everyone wants to win a SB every year. It’s not easy even though the Pats make it looks like a cake walk most years.

The NFL is built on parody. What works one year can go the exact opposite the next.

Paying top dollar for a QB rarely works out in the NFL if you want to win a SB. There is a reason Russel Wilson hasn’t been to a SB since he signed for big money, same with Ben, Rodgers, Matty, Stamford, etc.

IMO you either have a Brady, Billicheat duo or you spend a few years with losing records to get high draft picks to get back into the mix.

You can’t use the Rams without looking at their QB contract AND their terrible records which helped them build their roster.

We didn’t get Ben by paying Maddox big money and almost winning SB’s before he arrived. We got Ben by going 6-10.

You have to have real pain if you want to build a SB caliber roster and we aren’t the type of team to make that sacrifice yet.

[Oh wow]

and one more thing. I think it’s great that we have gone into the season thinking we have a shot at a SB the last 10 years or so.. that’s a great way to run a franchise.

However, I think that window is closing fast and actually I think it’s already closed.

Would love to be surprised this year. My expectations are low.

[Sword]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/saints-wr-michael-thomas-agree-to-recordbreaking-contract-extension-124456471.html

$20M per year for a receiver. That's just crazy money for a wr. Mr. big chest must be feeling a blonde mustache moment about now.
Insane.....forget that...fans should stop being enablers of this.....WR ..no way.....

[AzStillers1989]

Insane.....forget that...fans should stop being enablers of this.....WR ..no way.....

random question, do you ever call into Tunch and Wolf’s show In The Locker Room?

[Oh wow]

Insane.....forget that...fans should stop being enablers of this.....WR ..no way.....

So only QB’a should make this much?

How does a fan base enable this? What can we do to stop it? The bulk of the money comes from TV contracts. You can’t force a FO to not pay their best players.

Most we can do is call into radio shows or voice our opinion on the internet. $20 mill is still a drop in the bucket when a team is worth a Billion dollars.

[Captain Lemming]

So only QB’a should make this much?

How does a fan base enable this? What can we do to stop it? The bulk of the money comes from TV contracts. You can’t force a FO to not pay their best players.

Most we can do is call into radio shows or voice our opinion on the internet. $20 mill is still a drop in the bucket when a team is worth a Billion dollars.

The HOF QB contemporaries of Ben have been:
Brady- 6
Peyton- 2
Brees- 1
Warner- 1
Ben- 2
Wilson...a couple years will be a shoe in- 1

Make the same list for HOF bound receivers Dizz and count the rings.

THAT is why you pay QBs

[Oh wow]

The HOF QB contemporaries of Ben have been:
Brady- 6
Peyton- 2
Brees- 1
Warner- 1
Ben- 2
Wilson...a couple years will be a shoe in- 1

Make the same list for HOF bound receivers Dizz and count the rings.

HOF Caliber receivers with rings:
1. Harrison

WTH does the HOF have to do with this convo?

Age + Large Cap hit: rarely wins SB’s these days.

I’ll give you Brees. I think they probably make the SB if not for a terrible non call.

But how many QB’s not named Brady (below market rate) are winning SB’s late in their career?

Peyton? He was dragged to a SB by that team. Who else?

Once you hit 35 it’s not likely you will win a SB when your QB eats up a ton of cap space.

[Oviedo]

The ultimate job of an organization is to ultimately reward it's fans (fan base)




Do you really believe this? The organization ultimately wins for the organization! The organization ultimately makes money for the organization and owners? Rewarding fans is way down on the priority list. Fans are a dime a dozen and essentially entertainment junkies. What the fans think and like is probably less than 10%, if that, of what goes into the decisions the team makes.

[Oviedo]

So only QB’a should make this much?

How does a fan base enable this? What can we do to stop it? The bulk of the money comes from TV contracts. You can’t force a FO to not pay their best players.

Most we can do is call into radio shows or voice our opinion on the internet. $20 mill is still a drop in the bucket when a team is worth a Billion dollars.

I've always thought that teams should be able to get a 50% exemption on one salary for a designated period of time. Must be a player with at least 5 years with the team. The escalation of QB salaries is outpacing the growth of the cap. But I guess the league doesn't care because that imposes parity and we don't have an MLB situation.

[Eich]

So only QB’a should make this much?

How does a fan base enable this? What can we do to stop it? The bulk of the money comes from TV contracts. You can’t force a FO to not pay their best players.

Most we can do is call into radio shows or voice our opinion on the internet. $20 mill is still a drop in the bucket when a team is worth a Billion dollars.

The money being a drop in the bucket compared to a team's worth is irrelevant. I couldn't care less what owners want to spend on whatever they want to spend it on. The issue is that there is a salary cap to mange. And these crazy contracts from certain teams screw up the system for the teams who want to spend wisely, in regard to the cap.

Here again, the cheaters do it right. Get rid of the players who are going to demand huge contracts, before they demand them. And I think we did it right with Bell.

[Captain Lemming]

I've always thought that teams should be able to get a 50% exemption on one salary for a designated period of time. Must be a player with at least 5 years with the team. The escalation of QB salaries is outpacing the growth of the cap. But I guess the league doesn't care because that imposes parity and we don't have an MLB situation.

I like your idea, but doing that would only escalate that salary to possibly double what it is now with the aid of the exemption.

I've said it before, I think they should have a cap of no more than say 12 percent for any single players salary.
Easy to pass for the union, as it mean mo money, mo money, mo money, for 95 percent of the players.

The rookie QB contract advantage goes away.

[Captain Lemming]

The money being a drop in the bucket compared to a team's worth is irrelevant. I couldn't care less what owners want to spend on whatever they want to spend it on. The issue is that there is a salary cap to mange. And these crazy contracts from certain teams screw up the system for the teams who want to spend wisely, in regard to the cap.

Here again, the cheaters do it right. Get rid of the players who are going to demand huge contracts, before they demand them. And I think we did it right with Bell.

Cheaters take advantage of the entire leagues stupidity and it adds to their competitive advantage by not wasting cap on the wrong positions (along with the Brady discount).

We weren't so smart.
Bell saved us from our own stupidity by being greedy.

[Captain Lemming]

WTH does the HOF have to do with this convo?

Age + Large Cap hit: rarely wins SB’s these days.

I’ll give you Brees. I think they probably make the SB if not for a terrible non call.

But how many QB’s not named Brady (below market rate) are winning SB’s late in their career?

Peyton? He was dragged to a SB by that team. Who else?

Once you hit 35 it’s not likely you will win a SB when your QB eats up a ton of cap space.

I don't disagree entirely. But at least you can make a case that elite QB play has consistently been a prime factor in championships......so you can make a case for their value.

ELITE RECEIVERS ARE NOT KEY COMPONANTS OF CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS in todays NFL.

Name the top 15 receivers in the NFL Dizz. NOT ONE has won a ring.

Elite QBs with rings are SO PLENTIFUL I made a list and actually forgot Aaron Rogers.....the best QB EVER by some statistical measures.

[Captain Lemming]

Everyone wants to win a SB every year. It’s not easy even though the Pats make it looks like a cake walk most years.

The NFL is built on parody.

You know that's right:


https://youtu.be/eWIxRsE8GM0

[Oh wow]

Do you really believe this? The organization ultimately wins for the organization! The organization ultimately makes money for the organization and owners? Rewarding fans is way down on the priority list. Fans are a dime a dozen and essentially entertainment junkies. What the fans think and like is probably less than 10%, if that, of what goes into the decisions the team makes.

A competitive team is the best reward for a fan base.

If you go into the season thinking you have a shot at a SB your franchise is doing it right.

[D Rock]

You won't be laughing when that is what we have to pay to keep JuJu in the next 18-24 months.


Julio Jones (FA in 2021) will probably get more per year than Thomas got, although maybe a shorter contract. Tyreek Hill is a total wildcard (2020) with his legal issues

I think the biggest thing to watch will be what the Cowboys give Amari Cooper (2020). He hasn't produced to the level of these other guys, so if he gets paid big - that is the contract that would really ruin the market.

Also coming up for new contracts soon: AJ Green (2020), TY Hilton (2021), Keenan Allen (2021)

JuJu would be a free agent in 2021. The market is over-inflated now, but it's only going to get worse still

[Oh wow]

I like your idea, but doing that would only escalate that salary to possibly double what it is now with the aid of the exemption.

I've said it before, I think they should have a cap of no more than say 12 percent for any single players salary.
Easy to pass for the union, as it mean mo money, mo money, mo money, for 95 percent of the players.

The rookie QB contract advantage goes away.

a rookie QB advantage?

You still have to pick the right QB and have everything else in place to make a serious run at a SB.

I think the way it’s set up now is fine.

It was ridiculous to give a QB who went number 1 in the draft a deal worth $75 mill out of the gate.

I think players who prove their worth on their first contract should have a shot at a huge pay day on their 2nd contract.

[Captain Lemming]

Julio Jones (FA in 2021) will probably get more per year than Thomas got, although maybe a shorter contract. Tyreek Hill is a total wildcard (2020) with his legal issues

I think the biggest thing to watch will be what the Cowboys give Amari Cooper (2020). He hasn't produced to the level of these other guys, so if he gets paid big - that is the contract that would really ruin the market.

Also coming up for new contracts soon: AJ Green (2020), TY Hilton (2021), Keenan Allen (2021)

JuJu would be a free agent in 2021. The market is over-inflated now, but it's only going to get worse still

I hope it does and that MOST teams aren't stupid and continue to overpay receivers. I want us to SEE what happens when you lose a great but arrogant receiver as we IMPROVE without Brown and LEARN from it.
Then we will have that same edge NE has by not paying easily replaceable positions in a league that doesnt know any better.

[Steel Maniac]

I hope it does and that MOST teams aren't stupid and continue to overpay receivers. I want us to SEE what happens when you lose a great but arrogant receiver as we IMPROVE without Brown and LEARN from it.
Then we will have that same edge NE has by not paying easily replaceable positions in a league that doesnt know any better.

I think Colbert is on the path to learning just that. But just when that education is received, he may retire or leave and then we have to break in a new GM and then the education starts from zero for him.

[Captain Lemming]

a rookie QB advantage?

You still have to pick the right QB and have everything else in place to make a serious run at a SB.

I think the way it’s set up now is fine.

It was ridiculous to give a QB who went number 1 in the draft a deal worth $75 mill out of the gate.

I think players who prove their worth on their first contract should have a shot at a huge pay day on their 2nd contract.

See....you argue with me when I just supported your point Dizz.
You just implied we are burdened with Bens contract, yet you argue there is no "rookie QB advantage"?

Sure you gotta draft the right QB. But that does not negate the fact that KC has a HUGE cap advantage over Seattle. It means KC can get away with managing the cap poorly. Look at the Browns. I hate overpaying backs and receivers. But the Browns arent gonna hurt for signing OBJ like say the Seahawks would be. While I STILL think the Rams were idiots for extending Gurley EARLY, it doesn't hurt them like a team with a vet QB.

You might be fine as it is....cool.

But to try to make a case that there is no rookie QB contract WHEN YOU YOURSELF implied that is how Wilson got his ring......you just can't help playing "devils advocate" to most of what I say. :)

[Oh wow]

See....you argue with me when I just supported your point Dizz.
You just implied we are burdened with Bens contract, yet you argue there is no "rookie QB advantage"?

Sure you gotta draft the right QB. But that does not negate the fact that KC has a HUGE cap advantage over Seattle. It means KC can get away with managing the cap poorly. Look at the Browns. I hate overpaying backs and receivers. But the Browns arent gonna hurt for signing OBJ like say the Seahawks would be. While I STILL think the Rams were idiots for extending Gurley EARLY, it doesn't hurt them like a team with a vet QB.

You might be fine as it is....cool.

But to try to make a case that there is no rookie QB contract WHEN YOU YOURSELF implied that is how Wilson got his ring......you just can't help playing "devils advocate" to most of what I say. :)

No. It’s just a discussion.

My issue is making a cap of 12% for any other player.

I think teams should be able to spend however they want when it comes to contracts outside of the rookie scale.

So when you say it eliminates the rookie advantage I don’t necessarily agree with that.

If a player exceeds his contract or plays lights out and is a huge part of the teams success why can’t he have the opportunity to make more than 12%?

[Captain Lemming]

My issue is making a cap of 12% for any other player.

Any "other" player?

You do know I am suggesting no more than 12 percent for any player period including QBs.

If nobody can make more than 12 percent it mostly hurts QBs and spreads that to the rest of the team.

That eliminates the rookie QB contract advantage as veteran QBs will not eat up the cap space they do now.

As it stands, the Seahawks are hurt by having to pay so much for the QB as opposed to teams with a QB on his rookie deal. That is all I'm saying.


So when you say it eliminates the rookie advantage I don’t necessarily agree with that.


Why?


If a player exceeds his contract or plays lights out and is a huge part of the teams success why can’t he have the opportunity to make more than 12%?

OK you don't like the idea of this. Fine. Does not invalidate my contention that it would diminish the current rookie QB advantage, and that such an advantage exists.

In my view this is a matter of negotiation Dizz. I think players would vote overwhelmingly for it because everybody wins EXCEPT for a player or rarely 2 players per team. Mostly elite QBs would take the hit.

[Mr.wizard]

I don't think Players would vote for that, all it does is put a cap on how much an individual player can make. That doesn't guarantee more for the rest of the players because the team doesn't have to spend all of the cap.

[Oh wow]

I don't think Players would vote for that, all it does is put a cap on how much an individual player can make. That doesn't guarantee more for the rest of the players because the team doesn't have to spend all of the cap.

This too.

I think teams are trying to stay as competitive as possible when they sign mega deals.

Letting an expensive player walk doesn’t guarantee success and often makes a FO look like they aren’t serious about winning.

[Captain Lemming]

I don't think Players would vote for that, all it does is put a cap on how much an individual player can make. That doesn't guarantee more for the rest of the players because the team doesn't have to spend all of the cap.

But teams DO tend to spend the cap because of competition whether they have to or not. The reality is that MOST players will make more money if this were implemented. It is an EASY sell.

[Captain Lemming]

I think teams are trying to stay as competitive as possible when they sign mega deals.

Letting an expensive player walk doesn’t guarantee success and often makes a FO look like they aren’t serious about winning.

Yet YOU advocate the ridiculous idea of letting Ben walk Dizz despite what you just said.

As it is, a team like ours must choose between allocating disproportionate cap space to our veteran QB.....which creates a competitive disadvantage compared to a team with an elite QB on a rookie deal with much more cash for other positions. Or we don't pay an astronomical amount to one player and let him walk (as you suggest) which creates a worse competitive situation.

Conversely, we had an advantage as did the Seahawks, when our QBs were on there rookie deals.

And dont get me started with the HUGE advantage the Pats have had by having a QB who can afford to be paid like a below average QB.

By creating a single player cap, salaries WILL go up for 95 percent of all players, and keeping a veteran QB does not hurt your teams competitiveness.

[Steel Maniac]

Yet YOU advocate the ridiculous idea of letting Ben walk Dizz despite what you just said.

Boom...........

[Captain Lemming]

Some fun facts:

Mahommes: 2.5 mil
Ben: 26 mil

KC over TWENTY MILLION MORE DOLLARS to buy talent around their QB.

Dizz says there in no rookie QB contract advantage? :)

[Captain Lemming]

More fun facts....on this topic
Is paying big bucks to receivers a good investment?:

The highest paid WR in Patriots history is reining SB MVP.
He will be a 7 mil cap hit to play for the Pats.

The highest paid receiver in Steelers history was AWOL with the playoff on the line.
He will be a 21 million dollar cap hit to the STEELERS to play for the Raiders.
WE ARE HAMSTRUNG BY THE BIGGEST NON-QB cap hit in Steeler HISTORY.

I am happy Thomas got paid.....because he AINT a Steeler.
It was stupid for the team as it always is to pay the stupid amount receivers get paid.

[Mr.wizard]

But teams DO tend to spend the cap because of competition whether they have to or not. The reality is that MOST players will make more money if this were implemented. It is an EASY sell.

They spend the Cap on their stars, taking money from the stars doesn't mean they will spend it on the other players. Also how many players are making more than 12% of the cap, the cap was at like $188 mil, how many guys are exceeding that 12% and by how much. If you're talking about scraping 5-10 million off your top salaries it doesn't seem like it would be worth capping salaries, spread out over the rest of team it becomes an insignificant amount.

[Oh wow]

Yet YOU advocate the ridiculous idea of letting Ben walk Dizz despite what you just said.

As it is, a team like ours must choose between allocating disproportionate cap space to our veteran QB.....which creates a competitive disadvantage compared to a team with an elite QB on a rookie deal with much more cash for other positions. Or we don't pay an astronomical amount to one player and let him walk (as you suggest) which creates a worse competitive situation.

Conversely, we had an advantage as did the Seahawks, when our QBs were on there rookie deals.

And dont get me started with the HUGE advantage the Pats have had by having a QB who can afford to be paid like a below average QB.

By creating a single player cap, salaries WILL go up for 95 percent of all players, and keeping a veteran QB does not hurt your teams competitiveness.

I’ve already stated I think our window has closed.

I prefer to gamble on the young QB’s and if they fail we grab a QB high in the draft given Ben’s age.

We’ve been competitive for a long time with Ben but i think the ride is over.

[Captain Lemming]

They spend the Cap on their stars, taking money from the stars doesn't mean they will spend it on the other players. Also how many players are making more than 12% of the cap, the cap was at like $188 mil, how many guys are exceeding that 12% and by how much. If you're talking about scraping 5-10 million off your top salaries it doesn't seem like it would be worth capping salaries, spread out over the rest of team it becomes an insignificant amount.

If we paid Ben say half his salary....you saying we just pocket that money?
Seahawks and Russell...same question?

You know full well that we either extend more guys with money we dont have now or grab free agent talent we dont have now. Every team would do the same. As we would ALL be competing to add that talent with the new money saved from the top.
The net result is higher salaries for the most players.

If your contention were true why do teams with rookie QB deals spend that extra cap space today?

They SPEND IT on acquiring and keeping talent.

Doesn't take a math "Wizard" to understand that. :)

[Mr.wizard]

If we paid Ben say half his salary....you saying we just pocket that money?
Seahawks and Russell...same question?

You know full well that we either extend more guys with money we dont have now or grab free agent talent we dont have now. Every team would do the same. As we would ALL be competing to add that talent with the new money saved from the top.
The net result is higher salaries for the most players.

If your contention were true why do teams with rookie QB deals spend that extra cap space today?

They SPEND IT on acquiring and keeping talent.

Doesn't take a math "Wizard" to understand that. :)

I don't think we pocket the money I think it still ends up going to a small percentage of players, there is no guarantee that it is spread out to the rest of the team. If you go down that road you are just giving teams an excuse to pocket the money, because they will say they aren't going to pay guys more just because they have the money. It's almost like trickle down economics, put more money in the hands of the company and that means more money for everyone, but we know it usually ends up in top guys pockets. Then you would have to get the most powerful players in the league and the players union to vote for cutting the top salaries.

[Oh wow]

I don't think we pocket the money I think it still ends up going to a small percentage of players, there is no guarantee that it is spread out to the rest of the team. If you go down that road you are just giving teams an excuse to pocket the money, because they will say they aren't going to pay guys more just because they have the money. It's almost like trickle down economics, put more money in the hands of the company and that means more money for everyone, but we know it usually ends up in top guys pockets. Then you would have to get the most powerful players in the league and the players union to vote for cutting the top salaries.
There are only so many great players.

Paying average players more money doesn’t make a team better.

CP acts like if we capped positions every team could stack up on the best talent.

It’s still 53 guys on the roster. The more I think about it the more it doesn’t change anything except probably lowering more salaries across the board.

If you can only offer a great player 12% why would he play for us vs the next team with 12%. It changes nothing.

[Mr.wizard]

There are only so many great players.

Paying average players more money doesn’t make a team better.

CP acts like if we capped positions every team could stack up on the best talent.

It’s still 53 guys on the roster. The more I think about it the more it doesn’t change anything except probably lowering more salaries across the board.

If you can only offer a great player 12% why would he play for us vs the next team with 12%. It changes nothing.

Ya there is a limited amount of top talent, so every team will be bidding with this extra money so the money never leaves the small percentage of players. Then once you have over inflated those salaries you are in exactly the same spot, so what is the next step, cut top salaries to 10%?

[Oh wow]

Ya there is a limited amount of top talent, so every team will be bidding with this extra money so the money never leaves the small percentage of players. Then once you have over inflated those salaries you are in exactly the same spot, so what is the next step, cut top salaries to 10%?

I think top salary for QB is around 16 to 18%.

I don’t think capping it at 12% will change much.

The reality is the QB rookie advantage comes down to timing. You have to draft and acquire top talent and hopefully keep them around for a few years (without major injuries) in order to have a nucleus in place for a rookie QB to have an advantage.

We had a short window with Ben, then we had to pay those players AND Ben.. we tried for one last run and it all fell apart.

My theory is once you get to that 3rd big contract for a franchise QB it’s probably not a bad idea to move him, get picks and cap space try to do it again after a down year or 2.


Also...the Browns have had rookie QB salaries 25 years and they’ve stunk for a looooong time. You still have to pick the right guys.

[Captain Lemming]

I don't think we pocket the money I think it still ends up going to a small percentage of players, there is no guarantee that it is spread out to the rest of the team.

You miss the point. If say the cap were 15 mil. The competitive advantage of having a rookie QB deal diminishes greatly (not altogether gone). If your point is that guys like "Big Dan" wont get raises, I am not arguing that. But many players will make more money, which is why it would pass.

My reason has nothing to do with caring about what a QB makes per se. It would reduce the disadvantage one has for having to pay so much for a veteran QB


If you go down that road you are just giving teams an excuse to pocket the money, because they will say they aren't going to pay guys more just because they have the money. It's almost like trickle down economics, put more money in the hands of the company and that means more money for everyone, but we know it usually ends up in top guys pockets. Then you would have to get the most powerful players in the league and the players union to vote for cutting the top salaries.

AGAIN, no need to speculate on whether teams will keep the extra money.....teams with QBs on rookie deals TODAY and have EXTRA DOUGH NOW.......SPEND IT on talent.

[Captain Lemming]

I think top salary for QB is around 16 to 18%.

I don’t think capping it at 12% will change much.

Perhaps.....just throwing out a number.


The reality is the QB rookie advantage comes down to timing. You have to draft and acquire top talent and hopefully keep them around for a few years (without major injuries) in order to have a nucleus in place for a rookie QB to have an advantage.

True...no argument.


We had a short window with Ben, then we had to pay those players AND Ben.. we tried for one last run and it all fell apart.

My theory is once you get to that 3rd big contract for a franchise QB it’s probably not a bad idea to move him, get picks and cap space try to do it again after a down year or 2.

This is where we part ways. I dont like the fact that a team must consider this just due to salary constraints.


Also...the Browns have had rookie QB salaries 25 years and they’ve stunk for a looooong time. You still have to pick the right guys.

And you want to dump Ben? We do not exactly have a stellar history evaluating QBs.
I am 55 years old and have not seen a franchise QB taken by this team IN MY LIFETIME outside of a top 10 1st round pick.

If you want THAT better be ready to dumb Ben AND Tomlin because Tomlin has that bad habit of not having sub 500 seasons.

[Steel Maniac]

Interesting.....Brady just got a pay raise; now he's making 23 mil a year which is 6th highest in the league. Which is still barely under the dreaded 13% curse of QB's that make that amount or more. (No QB that makes 13% of a teams cap has won a Super Bowl since Steve Young in 1994..the initial salary cap year) Salary Cap this year is 188.2mil

It's amazing to me how on point the Patriots stay and know how to flirt with thresholds. They've got it down to a fine science. I'll give them that.

[Oh wow]

Perhaps.....just throwing out a number.



True...no argument.



This is where we part ways. I dont like the fact that a team must consider this just due to salary constraints.



And you want to dump Ben? We do not exactly have a stellar history evaluating QBs.
I am 55 years old and have not seen a franchise QB taken by this team IN MY LIFETIME outside of a top 10 1st round pick.

If you want THAT better be ready to dumb Ben AND Tomlin because Tomlin has that bad habit of not having sub 500 seasons.

Why would we need to dump Tomlin? I think he stays until he decides to move on.

Having a sub .500 season AFTER we move on from Ben shouldn’t be the end of Tomlin.

What’s the point of paying a QB a ton of money if we continue to miss the playoffs?

That won’t happen but IMO it’s not unrealistic for teams to move on from a HOF QB towards the end of his career.

[Captain Lemming]

Why would we need to dump Tomlin? I think he stays until he decides to move on.

Having a sub .500 season AFTER we move on from Ben shouldn’t be the end of Tomlin.

What’s the point of paying a QB a ton of money if we continue to miss the playoffs?

That won’t happen but IMO it’s not unrealistic for teams to move on from a HOF QB towards the end of his career.

We missed the playoffs all of ONE consecutive year. That a "trend" does not make. :p

You miss my point. I like Tomlin. But we have never drafted a franchise QB outside of a top 10 pick. If you want to be in that position, you need to dump the QB and the coach because Tomlin IS good.

Let's be like the Browns you just described Dizz hoping to hit while drafting bums, instead of taking another shot while we have Ben.

That's smart alright.

[Northern_Blitz]

Interesting.....Brady just got a pay raise; now he's making 23 mil a year which is 6th highest in the league. Which is still barely under the dreaded 13% curse of QB's that make that amount or more. (No QB that makes 13% of a teams cap has won a Super Bowl since Steve Young in 1994..the initial salary cap year) Salary Cap this year is 188.2mil

It's amazing to me how on point the Patriots stay and know how to flirt with thresholds. They've got it down to a fine science. I'll give them that.

I think this is more about Brady than the Pats.

He could easily demand to be the highest paid player in the league, he's certainly earned it. But he doesn't. He's more interested in winning than maximizing his lifetime earnings.

For reference, Ben's extension included $68M in new money for 2 more years.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027628/article/ben-roethlisberger-agrees-to-twoyear-extension

I think Ben is making the choice that basically every other very good to elite player makes.

Brady's different because he's both elite and not interested in being the highest paid player at his position (despite being easily the most prolific).

[Northern_Blitz]

You miss my point. I like Tomlin. But we have never drafted a franchise QB outside of a top 10 pick. If you want to be in that position, you need to dump the QB and the coach because Tomlin IS good.

Let's be like the Browns you just described Dizz hoping to hit while drafting bums, instead of taking another shot while we have Ben.

That's smart alright.

That's an interesting perspective.

Part of the "problem" with Cowher was that he was never really bad enough to pick an elite QB. We really shouldn't have been able to draft Ben either...except Cleveland.

While I do think we should keep taking chances with Ben for as long as he's willing to play, I think the idea of trading him for a king's ransom isn't ridiculous.

I think the Steelers would never trade away a franchise QB because keeping Ben will make us consistently competitive and that's their goal. I think they see the financial value of being in contention for a championship (even though our chances of winning are probably dropping).

I think the dividing line between the success (meaning winning a SB) of these two strategies probably depends on how well our D plays. I've heard a few podcasts being very high on Edmunds. If he takes a big step forward and Bush ends up being the real deal...who knows?

Either way, it's a way better bet to take the field winning the SB instead of the Steelers for the remainder of Ben's career (true no matter what).

[Oh wow]

Brady puts winning above everything else. I don’t think most QB’s are built like him.

I made a post pointing out Brady’s preseason playing time and people acted like it was crazy talk.

There is a reason (besides cheating) that Brady has been the most successful QB in NFL history. I doubt he takes veteran days off like these other QB’s. He doesn’t rest his body. He makes sure he takes as many snaps as possible.

Could he get hurt in the preseason? Sure could... but he hasn’t. It’s a risk he is willing to take and I think one of the only things I really don’t like about Coach T is he gives vets too much rest in the preseason.

[Oh wow]

That's an interesting perspective.

Part of the "problem" with Cowher was that he was never really bad enough to pick an elite QB. We really shouldn't have been able to draft Ben either...except Cleveland.

While I do think we should keep taking chances with Ben for as long as he's willing to play, I think the idea of trading him for a king's ransom isn't ridiculous.

I think the Steelers would never trade away a franchise QB because keeping Ben will make us consistently competitive and that's their goal. I think they see the financial value of being in contention for a championship (even though our chances of winning are probably dropping).

I think the dividing line between the success (meaning winning a SB) of these two strategies probably depends on how well our D plays. I've heard a few podcasts being very high on Edmunds. If he takes a big step forward and Bush ends up being the real deal...who knows?

Either way, it's a way better bet to take the field winning the SB instead of the Steelers for the remainder of Ben's career (true no matter what).

Those 6-10 years we could’ve traded up to get a QB.

Cowher is from the Marty coaching tree and they preferred running and defense over QB play.

I think our motto is definitely draft, draft, draft but we could’ve made moves for better QB play than Kent Graham or Tomzack

[Steel Maniac]

That's an interesting perspective.

Part of the "problem" with Cowher was that he was never really bad enough to pick an elite QB. We really shouldn't have been able to draft Ben either...except Cleveland.

While I do think we should keep taking chances with Ben for as long as he's willing to play, I think the idea of trading him for a king's ransom isn't ridiculous.

I think the Steelers would never trade away a franchise QB because keeping Ben will make us consistently competitive and that's their goal. I think they see the financial value of being in contention for a championship (even though our chances of winning are probably dropping).

I think the dividing line between the success (meaning winning a SB) of these two strategies probably depends on how well our D plays. I've heard a few podcasts being very high on Edmunds. If he takes a big step forward and Bush ends up being the real deal...who knows?

Either way, it's a way better bet to take the field winning the SB instead of the Steelers for the remainder of Ben's career (true no matter what).

When/ IF we see a can't miss QB at or near the top of the draft, since we don't bottom out like a lot of teams to be in a position to get a franchise QB from the draft, We need to to unload damn near our entire draft to get him if need be. That's how important a can't miss franchise QB is.

[Northern_Blitz]

When/ IF we see a can't miss QB at or near the top of the draft, since we don't bottom out like a lot of teams to be in a position to get a franchise QB from the draft, We need to to unload damn near our entire draft to get him if need be. That's how important a can't miss franchise QB is.

That and no team with that pick (i.e. a team that was crappy enough to pick high) is going to trade it away if a QB people think is "can't miss" is available.

[phillyesq]

pay the QB

it should be pretty obvious by now. Ben has made alot of guys alot of $$ over the years

I've lost count of all the WRs to get paid somewhere else and we still can plug and play receivers

Agree. This should be simple.

[Oh wow]

WR’s will always get paid.. just like QB’s.

Doesn’t matter who throws to them, if they can get YAC they will get paid.

[NorthCoast]

Roethlisberger can get the Steelers to the playoffs on his arm alone. Advancing in and making to the SB will, I think mostly depend on the defense. Have they gotten the right pieces together? ... million dollar question

[NorthCoast]

Interesting.....Brady just got a pay raise; now he's making 23 mil a year which is 6th highest in the league. Which is still barely under the dreaded 13% curse of QB's that make that amount or more. (No QB that makes 13% of a teams cap has won a Super Bowl since Steve Young in 1994..the initial salary cap year) Salary Cap this year is 188.2mil

It's amazing to me how on point the Patriots stay and know how to flirt with thresholds. They've got it down to a fine science. I'll give them that.

... and it just came out that Brady's a free agent after 2019 season... NE essentially made it a 3 yr deal to allow them to spread the money out over multiple yrs. He cannot be franchised tagged, cannot be traded.

[Oh wow]

Roethlisberger can get the Steelers to the playoffs on his arm alone. Advancing in and making to the SB will, I think mostly depend on the defense. Have they gotten the right pieces together? ... million dollar question

No he can’t. He threw for over 5K last year and we missed the playoffs.

I think having Ben puts us in the convo for the playoffs ever year but a few missed FG’s, a fumble, an INT, a missed tackle.. any of those things can be the difference.

[NorthCoast]

No he can’t. He threw for over 5K last year and we missed the playoffs.

I think having Ben puts us in the convo for the playoffs ever year but a few missed FG’s, a fumble, an INT, a missed tackle.. any of those things can be the difference.

....'cept for a pathetic kicking performance the Steelers would be in the post season last year....

[Mr.wizard]

Interesting.....Brady just got a pay raise; now he's making 23 mil a year which is 6th highest in the league. Which is still barely under the dreaded 13% curse of QB's that make that amount or more. (No QB that makes 13% of a teams cap has won a Super Bowl since Steve Young in 1994..the initial salary cap year) Salary Cap this year is 188.2mil

It's amazing to me how on point the Patriots stay and know how to flirt with thresholds. They've got it down to a fine science. I'll give them that.

I don't really think Brady taking less money has anything to do with the Pat's winning, it's not like the Pat's have had an abundance of talent. There are a lot of teams with more talent and lower paid QB's who don't win, it comes down to consistency. Brady is so damn good and he is that way every single week, plus the guy rarely makes a mistake. So while Tom Brady is the reason for the Pat's success it doesn't really have anything to do with his contract.

[Shawn]

You won't be laughing when that is what we have to pay to keep JuJu in the next 18-24 months. This is the tell all season for JuJu in my book. Putting up massive numbers with AB getting most of the attention is one thing. Doing it being the man? IMO, he still has something to prove when it comes to being an elite 1A. Call me crazy but I'm a little nervous about JuJu being our number 1 without really any real threat as a 2. Moncrief? Washington? I don't know. Not completely buying into the hype yet.

[Oh wow]

....'cept for a pathetic kicking performance the Steelers would be in the post season last year....

Which is why he can’t do it alone. Everyone else has to do their part.

[Oh wow]

This is the tell all season for JuJu in my book. Putting up massive numbers with AB getting most of the attention is one thing. Doing it being the man? IMO, he still has something to prove when it comes to being an elite 1A. Call me crazy but I'm a little nervous about JuJu being our number 1 without really any real threat as a 2. Moncrief? Washington? I don't know. Not completely buying into the hype yet.

Exactly. I think JuJu is going to make plays but he is no longer benefitting from AB getting doubled and a defense game planning against AB all week.

It really comes down to the other guys making enough plays to keep the D honest and I’m not sure Washington, Switzer and Moncreif are ready to take that next step.

Call me crazy but I think Eli is the X factor since he and Ben have some history and chemistry. I think if he can stay healthy it will help our passing game a ton.

[Oh wow]

I don't really think Brady taking less money has anything to do with the Pat's winning, it's not like the Pat's have had an abundance of talent. There are a lot of teams with more talent and lower paid QB's who don't win, it comes down to consistency. Brady is so damn good and he is that way every single week, plus the guy rarely makes a mistake. So while Tom Brady is the reason for the Pat's success it doesn't really have anything to do with his contract.


People will say it’s because they can afford to offer more money to DB’s but IMO they are so cheap they would have that money available regardless if Brady took more or not.

IMO it’s guys buying in 100% AND Brady is a freaking robot. The guy doesn’t take days off like other vets.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

But we have never drafted a franchise QB outside of a top 10 pick.

Not true. The Steelers drafted a franchise QB in the ninth round in 1955. Unfortunately, the franchise was the Baltimore Colts, and the QB was a skinny kid out of Louisville by the name of Johnny Unitas.

But otherwise point taken. :D

[ikestops85]

The only way the Steelers get a top 10 pick is if Ben gets injured in the preseason (God forbid) and the Steelers do a 2011 Colts where they got to pick Andrew Luck. I do think Trevor Lawrence would look good in Black n' Gold.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

This is the tell all season for JuJu in my book. Putting up massive numbers with AB getting most of the attention is one thing. Doing it being the man? IMO, he still has something to prove when it comes to being an elite 1A. Call me crazy but I'm a little nervous about JuJu being our number 1 without really any real threat as a 2. Moncrief? Washington? I don't know. Not completely buying into the hype yet.

I've had the same concerns. IMO, as long as the receivers opposite can capitalize when Ju Ju receives any double coverage then I think this corps can succeed. I'm not worried about who steps up and puts up numbers, but I do believe that JJSS will receive the support he needs.

Between the speed of Moncrief, the fight of Washington, the quickness of Diontae, Switzer, or Rogers, the mismatch of Vance, and the increased abilities in the running/receiving out of the backfield crew (Conner now a second year starter, Samuels in his second year and a powerful rook in Snell), I don't think that Ben and Ju Ju will have to carry the O themselves.

[Oh wow]

Besides Rogers and Vance I think everyone else is an unknown at WR.

Washington hasn’t shown he can win combat catches yet. Switzer hasn’t shown he can make a play upfield. Moncreif is probably good to go but we shall see.

I’m not too worried about the RB’s but depth and experience can be a concern if Connor goes down again or we stray from the run.

[Northern_Blitz]

Exactly. I think JuJu is going to make plays but he is no longer benefitting from AB getting doubled and a defense game planning against AB all week.

It really comes down to the other guys making enough plays to keep the D honest and I’m not sure Washington, Switzer and Moncreif are ready to take that next step.

Call me crazy but I think Eli is the X factor since he and Ben have some history and chemistry. I think if he can stay healthy it will help our passing game a ton.

The think I worry about re: JuJu is that his RAC yards will suffer without AB (~ 650 yards last year for #5 in the league).

I think he'll still beat guys and make plays. But, I think he will probably have less space after catching the ball because he'll be the primary weapon in the offense and there will be fewer defenders away from the play because their job was to watch AB.

I hope that my fears are blown out of proportion.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Besides Rogers and Vance I think everyone else is an unknown at WR.

Eli Rogers was impressive as a rookie UDFA in 2016 (48 catches for 594 yards and 3 TD), but in the two years since he's only had a combined total of 30 catches for 228 yards and 1 TD.

Donte Moncrief had a dumpster fire at QB last year in Jacksonville, but his stat line last season (48 catches for 668 yards and 3 TD) was still on par with Rogers' best season from 3 years ago.

Moncrief already has more than 5 times as many TD catches than Rogers (21 to 4) while playing with a menagerie of NFL backups at QB for most of his career.

I think we can trust Moncrief as a starter opposite Juju until young guys like Diontae Johnson and James Washington fully blossom.

Rogers, on the other hand, may be on the roster bubble if CFL import Diontae Spencer impresses during the preseason games.

If that is the case, I could easily see us trading Eli to a WR-needy team before cutdown day if we could get back additional depth at safety, TE, or even a late round draft pick next year.

[Captain Lemming]

This is the tell all season for JuJu in my book. Putting up massive numbers with AB getting most of the attention is one thing. Doing it being the man? IMO, he still has something to prove when it comes to being an elite 1A. Call me crazy but I'm a little nervous about JuJu being our number 1 without really any real threat as a 2. Moncrief? Washington? I don't know. Not completely buying into the hype yet.

When has a number 2 receiver been able to put up team leading numbers despite playing with an elite veteran NOT been capable of being the number one guy?

People are wondering if Juju is a "John Taylor" or "Alvin Harper"......beneficiaries of playing with a HOF talent.

But those guys don't MATCH or SURPASS their great team mate EVER. If just playing with a great gave an inferior receiver such an advantage, what Juju did last season would be commonplace. The guy playing with Julio? Dude with Hopkins? Where are they?

When another receiver is a "Robin" he does NOT match "Batman" EVER statistically.

Two guys who joined HOF veteran receivers who quickly matched or surpassed HOF teammates statistically?

Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

I dont think Juju is a "Moss" like freak, but that is rare air.

He sho aint no Alvin Harper either.

If you can statistically match a HOFer IN HIS PRIME, you best believe the guy is a capable number one.

Can Browns production be matched? Unlikely.
But it will hurt Juju just as much as Rice becoming a Raider (like Brown) hurt Owens....not one bit.

If anything Juju will thrive more.....think about the forced passes to Brown.

Steelers got 99 problems....but top receiver aint one

[Captain Lemming]

Eli Rogers was impressive as a rookie UDFA in 2016 (48 catches for 594 yards and 3 TD), but in the two years since he's only had a combined total of 30 catches for 228 yards and 1 TD.

Donte Moncrief had a dumpster fire at QB last year in Jacksonville, but his stat line last season (48 catches for 668 yards and 3 TD) was still on par with Rogers' best season from 3 years ago.

Moncrief already has more than 5 times as many TD catches than Rogers (21 to 4) while playing with a menagerie of NFL backups at QB for most of his career.

I think we can trust Moncrief as a starter opposite Juju until young guys like Diontae Johnson and James Washington fully blossom.

Rogers, on the other hand, may be on the roster bubble if CFL import Diontae Spencer impresses during the preseason games.

If that is the case, I could easily see us trading Eli to a WR-needy team before cutdown day if we could get back additional depth at safety, TE, or even a late round draft pick next year.

The reason I'm confident in the unit is not any one guy, but I do not see a scenario where NONE of THREE potential starters works.

I like you feel good about Moncrief as a legit 2 with a skillset that blossoms under a QB like Ben.

If one of the youngsters beat him out......it will be because "he" is better than we imagined, not because Moncrief aint good enough.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The reason I'm confident in the unit is not any one guy, but I do not see a scenario where NONE of THREE potential starters works.

I like you feel good about Moncrief as a legit 2 with a skillset that blossoms under a QB like Ben.

If one of the youngsters beat him out......it will be because "he" is better than we imagined, not because Moncrief aint good enough.

I don't expect any of our wideouts not named Juju to surpass the century mark individually this year.

Between Moncrief, Washington, Johnson, Switzer, and Rogers, none of us are really sure where they each will land as our WR2/3/4/5/6 at this point yet, but I could easily see one of those guys amassing 700-something receiving yards, another with about 600 receiving yards, another with roughly 500 receiving yards, another with approximately 400 receiving yards, and even the last guy being capable of 300 receiving yards or so.

[Steel Maniac]

The reason I'm confident in the unit is not any one guy, but I do not see a scenario where NONE of THREE potential starters works.

I like you feel good about Moncrief as a legit 2 with a skillset that blossoms under a QB like Ben.

If one of the youngsters beat him out......it will be because "he" is better than we imagined, not because Moncrief aint good enough.

I've said it , ...again and again from day one when he was signed that Moncrief was going to be the guy to emerge behind Juju and he's done nothing so far not to dispel that. There is NO DOUBT in my mind, despite what Keenan Allen has said about JuJu that Juju will be good as our # 1 WR.

Keenan Allen came on NFL website talking that crap about how Juju is going to be shocked when he's the # 1 WR. First of all, Keenan Allen isn't as good as Juju to be giving any type of critique on Juju. Allen is a pedestrian WR at best.

All this talk about questioning Juju's ability to be our # 1 WR is people still hanging on to memories of ACB. I can see Moncrief putting up 1000 yards this year opposite Juju. That's how good I feel about both of these guys.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Earlier this decade, with veteran record-breaking wideout Hines Ward closing out his Steelers career and dynamic young receiving star Mike Wallace rising to prominence, Colbert continued to supplement his WR corps by drafting Manny Sanders and Antonio Brown in 2010 and also signing veteran Jerricho Cotchery in 2011.

More recently, with veteran record-breaking wideout Antonio Brown closing out his Steelers career and dynamic young receiving star Juju Smith-Schuster rising to prominence, Colbert continued to supplement his WR corps by drafting James Washington in 2018 and Diontae Johnson in 2019 and also signing veteran Donte Moncrief in 2019.

It would appear that veteran Moncrief possesses many of the qualities to have a similar impact as Cotchery had as a veteran option for us back then.

It would appear that young Washington possesses many of the qualities to have a similar impact as Sanders had as a young player for us back then.

It would appear that young Johnson possesses many of the qualities to have a similar impact as Brown had as a young player for us back then.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Keenan Allen came on NFL website talking that crap about how Juju is going to be shocked when he's the # 1 WR. First of all, Keenan Allen isn't as good as Juju to be giving any type of critique on Juju. Allen is a pedestrian WR at best.

Over the last 2 years:

WR A has 169 catches for 2343 yards and 14 TD, catching passes from a veteran franchise QB from the vaunted 2004 QB class.

WR B has 199 catches for 2589 yards and 12 TD, catching passes from a veteran franchise QB from the vaunted 2004 QB class.

Which guy is a pedestrian WR at best?

[Shawn]

When has a number 2 receiver been able to put up team leading numbers despite playing with an elite veteran NOT been capable of being the number one guy?

People are wondering if Juju is a "John Taylor" or "Alvin Harper"......beneficiaries of playing with a HOF talent.

But those guys don't MATCH or SURPASS their great team mate EVER. If just playing with a great gave an inferior receiver such an advantage, what Juju did last season would be commonplace. The guy playing with Julio? Dude with Hopkins? Where are they?

When another receiver is a "Robin" he does NOT match "Batman" EVER statistically.

Two guys who joined HOF veteran receivers who quickly matched or surpassed HOF teammates statistically?

Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.

I dont think Juju is a "Moss" like freak, but that is rare air.

He sho aint no Alvin Harper either.

If you can statistically match a HOFer IN HIS PRIME, you best believe the guy is a capable number one.

Can Browns production be matched? Unlikely.
But it will hurt Juju just as much as Rice becoming a Raider (like Brown) hurt Owens....not one bit.

If anything Juju will thrive more.....think about the forced passes to Brown.

Steelers got 99 problems....but top receiver aint one Nice strawman. I don't believe I said any of those things. If I did, please refer me to the statement. My concern isn't JuJu as much as it is the unproven talent around him. JuJu has never seen AB-like double teams. And if our #2 and #3 can't step up, he will likely see them a plenty. That is my concern. Now as for what Dizz said concerning depth at RB, I have zero concerns there. Even with Snell being unproven I would have zero reservations about him as a starter based on what I have seen and the reports coming out of camp. I believe he will be exactly what I believe he is, and that's a Conner like clone.

[Oh wow]

Keenan Allen is far from pedestrian. Wtf.

[Steel Maniac]

Nice strawman. I don't believe I said any of those things. If I did, please refer me to the statement. My concern isn't JuJu as much as it is the unproven talent around him. JuJu has never seen AB-like double teams. And if our #2 and #3 can't step up, he will likely see them a plenty. That is my concern. Now as for what Dizz said concerning depth at RB, I have zero concerns there. Even with Snell being unproven I would have zero reservations about him as a starter based on what I have seen and the reports coming out of camp. I believe he will be exactly what I believe he is, and that's a Conner like clone.

There is no problem with our RB depth. Consider the source of who said that.

[hawaiiansteel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBeS2vAU8AA4KV8?format=jpg&name=small

[Oh wow]

How can Carr and Brown make the top 10 without playing together yet? Same with Mayfield and OBJ. Make no sense.

Lmao

[Captain Lemming]

"Strawman"???
I don't think so.


Nice strawman. I don't believe I said any of those things. If I did, please refer me to the statement.

Ok

. Call me crazy but I'm a little nervous about JuJu being our number 1 without really any real threat as a 2.

I am arguing that the above point is not valid.

When has a player matched or surpassed the performance of a HOF talent and NOT been able to excel without being helped by the HOF player?

You gotta be pretty special to have a season with more yards than a HOFer in his prime.

[Steel Maniac]

I think that Ass Clown Brown became such a security blanket for some that they can't fathom our passing game being good without him. They don't remember that Ben was winning Super Bowls without either Brown or Bell. I get it; but no worries Shawn; Ben will have the passing game working just fine.

Watch what Brown does with a lesser QB in Oakland. Watch him the first game of the season against the Broncos. You'll see that Browns success here was more about Ben they people want to give credit for.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think that Ass Clown Brown became such a security blanket for some that they can't fathom our passing game being good without him. They don't remember that Ben was winning Super Bowls without either Brown or Bell. I get it; but no worries Shawn; Ben will have the passing game working just fine.

Watch what Brown does with a lesser QB in Oakland. Watch him the first game of the season against the Broncos. You'll see that Browns success here was more about Ben they people want to give credit for.

Single games are terrible for evaluating anything.

If Ben has a bad game against NE in game 1 does that mean that he needs Brown to succeed? No.

If JuJu doesn't have a good game against NE, does that mean that he can't succeed at a WR1 without Brown? No. In fact, I expect JuJu to be fine as a #1. But, I also expect that he won't have a good game against NE because I think BB will take away JuJu and make us win with Conner, Montcrief, and McDonald.

[Mr.wizard]

Why is taking a wait and see approach with JuJu as the number 1 ruffling so many feathers? We will see how he does he will get plenty of opportunity there is no need to crown him before the season begins. AB is going to be a loss because he was such a threat, as of right now JuJu does not pose the same threat.

[hawaiiansteel]

Keenan Allen is far from pedestrian. Wtf.

especially when he's being covered 1 on 1 by Jon Bostic.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I've said it , ...again and again from day one when he was signed that Moncrief was going to be the guy to emerge behind Juju and he's done nothing so far not to dispel that. There is NO DOUBT in my mind, despite what Keenan Allen has said about JuJu that Juju will be good as our # 1 WR.

Keenan Allen came on NFL website talking that crap about how Juju is going to be shocked when he's the # 1 WR. First of all, Keenan Allen isn't as good as Juju to be giving any type of critique on Juju. Allen is a pedestrian WR at best.

All this talk about questioning Juju's ability to be our # 1 WR is people still hanging on to memories of ACB. I can see Moncrief putting up 1000 yards this year opposite Juju. That's how good I feel about both of these guys.

Another great call here, man...about both Moncrief as well as Keenan Allen! Keep spouting that genius, brother!


Keenan Allen off to best start of any NFL receiver

Posted by Michael David Smith on September 24, 2019, 4:29 PM EDT

Chargers wide receiver Keenan Allen has been the NFL’s most productive pass catcher this season, and it isn’t even close.

Allen has a league-leading 29 catches, a league-leading 404 receiving yards, a league-leading 20 receiving first downs and a league-leading eight catches of 20 yards or more.

The 27-year-old Allen has made the Pro Bowl each of the last two years, but his big start this year has him on pace for the best season of his career, by far. He has at least eight catches and at least 98 receiving yards in all three games this season.

Allen is, through three games, the best receiver in the league.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/24/keenan-allen-off-to-best-start-of-any-nfl-receiver/

[Oh wow]

Another great call here, man...about both Moncrief as well as Keenan Allen! Keep spouting that genius, brother!

He’s the loud and wrong guy