When it comes to the most pessimistic fans in AFC North, the Steelers take the cake

[hawaiiansteel]

When it comes to the most pessimistic fans in the AFC North, the Steelers take the cake

Gauging fans’ confidence shows the Steelers have the least amount of faith compared to their divisional peers.

By Jeff.Hartman May 16, 2019

The Pittsburgh Steelers fan base is a fickle bunch. While there are some realistic fans in the group, the majority of the fan base have a ‘Championship or Bust’ mentality. There is nothing wrong with this thought process, after all, the team has won six Super Bowls and is now tied with the New England Patriots atop the Super Bowl list.

Feeling the heat a bit from another NFL franchise for the first time in a long time, it makes sense the Steelers’ fan base might be a bit more pessimistic than most. Again, the team is coming off a one-and-done playoff departure in 2017, and missing the playoffs altogether in 2018.

The fans were frustrated, and rightfully so. But how frustrated? Take a look at the SB Nation Fan Pulse survey results below. At the end of the 2018 season less than 25% of the fan base was confident in the team’s direction. That number jumped significantly in free agency and the signings of Steven Nelson, Mark Barron and Donte Moncrief, but even after trading up to select Devin Bush in the first round of the 2019 NFL Draft didn’t move the needle too much. Still, less than 75% of the fans were happy with the direction of the team.

But how do these compare to the rest of the AFC North?

As I’m sure this comes as a shock to no one, the Cleveland Browns are more than happy to win the offseason. At the end of the season nearly 100% of the fan base was confident in the direction of the team. And somehow that number continued to go up after trading for Odell Bekham Jr. and throughout the draft.

In Baltimore, things were a little different than Cleveland. At the end of the season fans were all about Lamar Jackson and the direction of the team — then free agency hit. Gone is C.J. Mosley, Terrell Suggs, Joe Flacco (via trade) and Eric Weddle. While they did sign Earl Thomas, the confidence slipped, but started to gain momentum after the draft. More than 75% of the Ravens fans like the direction of the team.

Then there are the Bengals. After a horrible, and injury plagued, 2018 season, their confidence level mirrored that of the Steelers, but they still had more confidence than Pittsburgh’s fans. Little by little, the Bengals fans are starting to believe again. Gone is Marvin Lewis, gone is Vontaze Burfict and the new coach seems to have this team headed in a direction the fans can get behind.

When I see these charts, the one thing I can’t get out of my mind is how pessimistic Steelers fans can be. After being the editor of this establishment for 4 seasons, I realize there are fans, many who comment regularly here, who would complain about a Steelers Super Bowl win.

They would say something to the effect of...

“Yeah, they won the Super Bowl, but the secondary got shredded...AGAIN!”

“Sure, they won, but they threw the ball 55 times and only ran it 15 times! Fire Fichtner!”

“The Steelers won, but should have blown this team out...typical Tomlin. Fire Tomlin!”


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/5/16/18617658/when-it-comes-to-the-most-pessimistic-fans-in-the-afc-north-the-steelers-take-the-cake-fan-pulse

[flippy]

How many fans in the survey? 4 or 4 million?

[The Man of Steel]

I’m not overly pessimistic but maybe just unrealistic. I really do think that the franchise should be sitting on at least a dozen Lombardi’s by now and it kind of annoys me that they aren’t. Too many wasted seasons and wasted talent IMHO.

[hawaiiansteel]

I’m not overly pessimistic but maybe just unrealistic. I really do think that the franchise should be sitting on at least a dozen Lombardi’s by now and it kind of annoys me that they aren’t. Too many wasted seasons and wasted talent IMHO.

if we had only kept John Kuhn we would have at least a dozen Lombardis by now :p

[Eddie Spaghetti]

hot takes like these are why I don't respect or read behind the steel curtain.

having listened to Cleveland radio the in the last 5 years the answer is obvious

Hartman comes off as a schmuck and why I prefer steelers depot as a blog site for opinion and steelers news. they actually back their pieces up with facts. at least they do with Dave Bryan and Alex kozora. the marczi guy that writes for them is a buffoon who only pens puff pieces for the most part

[AzStillers1989]

Who cares about this article?

[Steelerphile]

I’m not overly pessimistic but maybe just unrealistic. I really do think that the franchise should be sitting on at least a dozen Lombardi’s by now and it kind of annoys me that they aren’t. Too many wasted seasons and wasted talent IMHO.


Are you being real with this or is this sarcasm? If you are real, I think this is a problem. Steeler Fans think winning the SuperBowl should be simple and that it is the birthright of the Steelers. There are 31 other teams trying to do this, and it is a big business. The Steelers do not have built in advantages but the fans, it seems, are spoiled and have unrealistic expectations. Possibly by making it look easy in the 70s by winning 4 in 6 years. This was before the era of free agency and before scouting became as exacting and scientific as it has become.

There have been 43 SuperBowls and the Steelers and the Patriots lead with 6 victories. Cowboys and San Fran next with 5. Green Bay and Giants with 4. There are twelve teams that have never won a Superbowl. Bengals, Bills, Browns Cardinals, Chargers, Falcons, Jaguars, Lions, Panthers, Texans, Titans and Vikings. I venture to say that all of these have made tremendous investments in terms of building stadiums, facilities, acquiring talent, coaches for every capacity in the effort to do this. It is a hard goal to achieve with so much competition.

I don't think fans in total have a real sense of the talent on other teams. They only think in terms of talent on the Steelers and always assume it to be far superior. I think the Steelers have maintained the tradition by being competitive for the most part, by making the playoffs, , most of the time and being in the hunt.

[Eich]

Are you being real with this or is this sarcasm? If you are real, I think this is a problem. Steeler Fans think winning the SuperBowl should be simple and that it is the birthright of the Steelers. There are 31 other teams trying to do this, and it is a big business. The Steelers do not have built in advantages but the fans, it seems, are spoiled and have unrealistic expectations. Possibly by making it look easy in the 70s by winning 4 in 6 years. This was before the era of free agency and before scouting became as exacting and scientific as it has become.

There have been 43 SuperBowls and the Steelers and the Patriots lead with 6 victories. Cowboys and San Fran next with 5. Green Bay and Giants with 4. There are twelve teams that have never won a Superbowl. Bengals, Bills, Browns Cardinals, Chargers, Falcons, Jaguars, Lions, Panthers, Texans, Titans and Vikings. I venture to say that all of these have made tremendous investments in terms of building stadiums, facilities, acquiring talent, coaches for every capacity in the effort to do this. It is a hard goal to achieve with so much competition.

I don't think fans in total have a real sense of the talent on other teams. They only think in terms of talent on the Steelers and always assume it to be far superior. I think the Steelers have maintained the tradition by being competitive for the most part, by making the playoffs, , most of the time and being in the hunt.


I would agree with most of this except that there is a miserable, cheating, arrogant, yet extremely well-coached team farther north-east of us, that is accomplishing what most Steelers fans crave.

I think Steelers fans would be more realistic and patient if there wasn't another team doing what the cheaters are doing over the last 2 decades.

[Oh wow]

It’s definitely unrealistic to expect a dozen SB trophies.

I get complaining about years when it looked like we had SB contending teams but c’mon son... a dozen?

One thing that’s always cracked me up is the “we wasted Ben’s years” like Ben has been this super awesome QB and the rest of the team and FO has screwed him over. He makes mistakes just like everyone else. It’s not easy to win a SB let alone make one. You have to really have some luck on your side most years... or have refs who call silly PI’s to keep drives alive or kill drives.

[Oh wow]

I would agree with most of this except that there is a miserable, cheating, arrogant, yet extremely well-coached team farther north-east of us, that is accomplishing what most Steelers fans crave.

I think Steelers fans would be more realistic and patient if there wasn't another team doing what the cheaters are doing over the last 2 decades.

By any means necessary.

Honest to goodness I have never seen a franchise get this many calls and lucky breaks in my 30 years of NFL.

and no, I’m not 30 but I’m not going to act like I have been watching and caring about the NFL since birth.

[pfelix73]

When it comes to the most pessimistic fans in the AFC North, the Steelers take the cake

Gauging fans’ confidence shows the Steelers have the least amount of faith compared to their divisional peers.

By Jeff.Hartman May 16, 2019

The Pittsburgh Steelers fan base is a fickle bunch. While there are some realistic fans in the group, the majority of the fan base have a ‘Championship or Bust’ mentality. There is nothing wrong with this thought process, after all, the team has won six Super Bowls and is now tied with the New England Patriots atop the Super Bowl list.

Feeling the heat a bit from another NFL franchise for the first time in a long time, it makes sense the Steelers’ fan base might be a bit more pessimistic than most. Again, the team is coming off a one-and-done playoff departure in 2017, and missing the playoffs altogether in 2018.

The fans were frustrated, and rightfully so. But how frustrated? Take a look at the SB Nation Fan Pulse survey results below. At the end of the 2018 season less than 25% of the fan base was confident in the team’s direction. That number jumped significantly in free agency and the signings of Steven Nelson, Mark Barron and Donte Moncrief, but even after trading up to select Devin Bush in the first round of the 2019 NFL Draft didn’t move the needle too much. Still, less than 75% of the fans were happy with the direction of the team.

But how do these compare to the rest of the AFC North?

As I’m sure this comes as a shock to no one, the Cleveland Browns are more than happy to win the offseason. At the end of the season nearly 100% of the fan base was confident in the direction of the team. And somehow that number continued to go up after trading for Odell Bekham Jr. and throughout the draft.

In Baltimore, things were a little different than Cleveland. At the end of the season fans were all about Lamar Jackson and the direction of the team — then free agency hit. Gone is C.J. Mosley, Terrell Suggs, Joe Flacco (via trade) and Eric Weddle. While they did sign Earl Thomas, the confidence slipped, but started to gain momentum after the draft. More than 75% of the Ravens fans like the direction of the team.

Then there are the Bengals. After a horrible, and injury plagued, 2018 season, their confidence level mirrored that of the Steelers, but they still had more confidence than Pittsburgh’s fans. Little by little, the Bengals fans are starting to believe again. Gone is Marvin Lewis, gone is Vontaze Burfict and the new coach seems to have this team headed in a direction the fans can get behind.

When I see these charts, the one thing I can’t get out of my mind is how pessimistic Steelers fans can be. After being the editor of this establishment for 4 seasons, I realize there are fans, many who comment regularly here, who would complain about a Steelers Super Bowl win.

They would say something to the effect of...

“Yeah, they won the Super Bowl, but the secondary got shredded...AGAIN!”

“Sure, they won, but they threw the ball 55 times and only ran it 15 times! Fire Fichtner!”

“The Steelers won, but should have blown this team out...typical Tomlin. Fire Tomlin!”


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/5/16/18617658/when-it-comes-to-the-most-pessimistic-fans-in-the-afc-north-the-steelers-take-the-cake-fan-pulse


The pessimism might have something to do with the head coach. He and Colbert did a good job so far leading up to this point in 2019.

Had a good FA period, dropped some dead weight in a few players, had a good draft- well, we will find out here soon enough- so things are looking good for 2019. We'll see if that 25% gets better, or drops by December.

[Shawn]

I consider myself a realist. Do I believe we have a championship caliber team? No. Do I believe we have a competitive team? Yes. I mean without knowing how the rookies and FAs will play out I think that’s a realistic stance.

[The Man of Steel]

It’s definitely unrealistic to expect a dozen SB trophies.

I get complaining about years when it looked like we had SB contending teams but c’mon son... a dozen?
Why not? The way I figure it the Steelers coulda/woulda/shoulda won additional Super Bowls in 1994, 1995, 2001, 2004, 2010 and 2016. Sure it’s unrealistic to think that but what the hell, why not?

[Sugar]

I remember having to be at a work event during Super Bowl XL. My employer put on a Super Bowl party and I got to watch with some colleagues that I didn't normally watch games with that were also Steelers fans. After the game it was crazy. One guy did nothing but complain about how terrible Ben was and how FWP got lucky and Cowher this and that. I'm thinking, "we just won the Super Bowl!!" Crazy.

[Oh wow]

Why not? The way I figure it the Steelers coulda/woulda/shoulda won additional Super Bowls in 1994, 1995, 2001, 2004, 2010 and 2016. Sure it’s unrealistic to think that but what the hell, why not?

While I think we should’ve beat San Diego I don’t know if there is any other year where we were head and shoulders above the rest of the league.

2004 it definitely looked like we were a lock but you have to remember Ben played terrible in both playoff games. He admitted he was scared as hell and we needed 2 missed FG’s by the Jets to even get to the AFCCG.

[Oh wow]

I remember having to be at a work event during Super Bowl XL. My employer put on a Super Bowl party and I got to watch with some colleagues that I didn't normally watch games with that were also Steelers fans. After the game it was crazy. One guy did nothing but complain about how terrible Ben was and how FWP got lucky and Cowher this and that. I'm thinking, "we just won the Super Bowl!!" Crazy.


I mean.. it was one of the worst performances by a SB winning QB.

But yeah, at the time I didn’t care at all about how ugly that game played out. I was in Detroit partying hard.

I think all teams have fans who are pessimistic. I think it’s to protect themselves from disappointment.

Not sure how anyone can complain after a SB victory.

[Eich]

By any means necessary.

Honest to goodness I have never seen a franchise get this many calls and lucky breaks in my 30 years of NFL.

Agree. And every year I think that somehow, the luck will end. And it hasn't yet.

[Steel Maniac]

I consider myself a realist. Do I believe we have a championship caliber team? No. Do I believe we have a competitive team? Yes. I mean without knowing how the rookies and FAs will play out I think that’s a realistic stance.

Ill stand with you on this corner Shawn.

[Captain Lemming]

It’s definitely unrealistic to expect a dozen SB trophies.

I get complaining about years when it looked like we had SB contending teams but c’mon son... a dozen?

One thing that’s always cracked me up is the “we wasted Ben’s years” like Ben has been this super awesome QB and the rest of the team and FO has screwed him over. He makes mistakes just like everyone else. It’s not easy to win a SB let alone make one.

I'm sure Phillip Rivers would LOVE to have landed here instead of poor Ben who's a good coach away from having a dozen rings. :roll::roll:


You have to really have some luck on your side most years.

You mean like the ZERO SB WINS Cowher would have if the most accurate kicker in the league did not choke away a Colts victory?

[Captain Lemming]

Why not? The way I figure it the Steelers coulda/woulda/shoulda won additional Super Bowls in 1994, 1995, 2001, 2004, 2010 and 2016. Sure it’s unrealistic to think that but what the hell, why not?

I believe we were favored in ONE of those games. But you are not unrealistic. :)

[Eich]

You mean like the ZERO SB WINS Cowher would have if the most accurate kicker in the league did not choke away a Colts victory?

Yeah, we had some luck go our way there (and some really bad luck too with the Bettis, turtle on his back, fumble and the Polamalu interception overturn that shouldn't have been). But the kicker didn't choke away sure victory. He choked away a tie and a CHANCE for victory.

[Steel Maniac]

Well the immaculate reception was a planned thing of beauty. :) Just like Noll drew it up.

[Captain Lemming]

Well the immaculate reception was a planned thing of beauty. :) Just like Noll drew it up.

You do know that the "immaculate reception" has nothing to do with Nolls 4 championships right?

Nevertheless, it is in principle yet another proof of Oh Wows valid contention my friend.

[Steel Maniac]

Yeah I know. I was just emphasizing the randomness sometimes in football.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yeah I know. I was just emphasizing the randomness sometimes in football.

So you agree that randomness is important in single game elimination tournaments?

If that's the case, would you also agree that the longer sample size in the regular season gives a better measure of how good a team is?

The reason some of us believe that is because randomness (or luck) has more influence on playoff success than it does regular season success (because there are fewer playoff games and the luck is more likely to even out in a large set of regular season games).

[Steel Maniac]

Stop..........

[ikestops85]

So you agree that randomness is important in single game elimination tournaments?

If that's the case, would you also agree that the longer sample size in the regular season gives a better measure of how good a team is?

The reason some of us believe that is because randomness (or luck) has more influence on playoff success than it does regular season success (because there are fewer playoff games and the luck is more likely to even out in a large set of regular season games).

I think that requires a

BOOM!!!

[Oh wow]

So you agree that randomness is important in single game elimination tournaments?

If that's the case, would you also agree that the longer sample size in the regular season gives a better measure of how good a team is?

The reason some of us believe that is because randomness (or luck) has more influence on playoff success than it does regular season success (because there are fewer playoff games and the luck is more likely to even out in a large set of regular season games).

Haha..

Got’eeeeem

[Buzz]

So you agree that randomness is important in single game elimination tournaments?

If that's the case, would you also agree that the longer sample size in the regular season gives a better measure of how good a team is?

The reason some of us believe that is because randomness (or luck) has more influence on playoff success than it does regular season success (because there are fewer playoff games and the luck is more likely to even out in a large set of regular season games).

I don't know that I buy your theory. Couldn't someone argue that luck has LESS of an influence on playoff success -- otherwise, wouldn't you have a lot more different playoff teams winning Super Bowls than what we've seen?

[RuthlessBurgher]

I don't know that I buy your theory. Couldn't someone argue that luck has LESS of an influence on playoff success -- otherwise, wouldn't you have a lot more different playoff teams winning Super Bowls than what we've seen?

Anything can happen in a one game scenario.

A team could be up 28-3 with 18 minutes left in the Super Bowl, rather than attempting to bleed the clock with your run game, you pass so much that your QB gets sacked 3 times in the final 16 minutes of the game, losing a combined 32 yards in those 3 plays, and fumbling away the ball to the other team on one of those sacks.

A team could be down 4 points in the Super Bowl with under a minute to go and have 2nd and goal from the 1 yard line with the best short yardage back of this generation, plus a timeout in their pocket, but instead of running it in for the TD, you try a risky goalline pass that is intercepted, sealing the game.

In both cases, one team was extremely lucky the opposing coaches were that stupid.

[flippy]

I don't know that I buy your theory. Couldn't someone argue that luck has LESS of an influence on playoff success -- otherwise, wouldn't you have a lot more different playoff teams winning Super Bowls than what we've seen?

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle.

Teams typically aren't as good or bad as the 16 game schedule. They're usually as good as their last 4-5 games imho. And the teams that appear to be lucky are often the better team - playing better football at the right time.

I think you would have to take a look at regular team performance in the last quarter of a season relative to quality of schedule.

I think we'd be better off playing all the best teams in the first 2 quarters of the season to show us how hard we need to work and how much we need to press to improve going into the second half.

[Steel Maniac]

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle.

Teams typically aren't as good or bad as the 16 game schedule. They're usually as good as their last 4-5 games imho. And the teams that appear to be lucky are often the better team - playing better football at the right time.

I think you would have to take a look at regular team performance in the last quarter of a season relative to quality of schedule.

I think we'd be better off playing all the best teams in the first 2 quarters of the season to show us how hard we need to work and how much we need to press to improve going into the second half.

Health of a team at a certain time at the end of the year has an influence as well.

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't know that I buy your theory. Couldn't someone argue that luck has LESS of an influence on playoff success -- otherwise, wouldn't you have a lot more different playoff teams winning Super Bowls than what we've seen?

I think that this is also about having a bigger sample size than one playoff run.

I think that historically we have a small number of teams that (1) have a consistently good process for roster construction and (2) hit the jackpot in the draft (usually at QB).

I think the relative importance of 1 and 2 probably flipped at the introduction of free agency (I think roster construction / cap management is harder now but pre UFA it was mostly draft luck) .

I bet we could all come up with a list of 6 teams or so that included the eventual SB winner most years. But it would be much harder to pick the 1 team that would win in any given year.

As in all things NFL, the Pats seem to screw this up. I think because they are amazing at roster construction and they have the GOAT at QB who doesn't want a market value contract because he values winning more.

[Steel Maniac]

The Pats KNOW what positions to pay and what positions not to pay. They are waaaaaay ahead of that then 99% of the teams in the NFL.

Captain Lemming gave a great example on how they know to pay legit cornerbacks while we're paying high end WR's. :rolleyes:

[RuthlessBurgher]

They are waaaaaay ahead of that then 99% of the teams in the NFL

That is the definition of an outlier.

Compared to the other 30 teams in the league, the Steelers are consistently competitive, winning more games than any team outside of New England during the Belichick/Brady era.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Joe Haden thinks Steelers can use doubts to their advantage

Posted by Josh Alper on May 24, 2019, 1:30 PM EDT

The Steelers spent some time this week talking about the improved atmosphere around the team after things got a bit toxic during the messy end to the 2018 season, but it will take some time to see if that translates to wins on the field.

Until it does, the Steelers are likely to continue to hear doubts that they can return to the playoffs this season. They’ve heard some from oddsmakers who installed the Browns as favorites to win the AFC North and it’s not hard to come across others around the football world who are skeptical of the team.

Cornerback Joe Haden thinks the team can use those doubts “to our advantage.”

“You hear the outside noise,” Haden said, via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. “Usually, Pittsburgh, [outsiders are] always, ‘Aw, they’re going to be in the playoffs.’ They just basically put us in the playoffs. Now to hear people not talk as highly of us has kind of put a chip on our shoulder. I think that’s a great thing. We’ve got something to really work for.”

If the AFC North turns out as the oddsmakers project, it would be a significant change for the division, the Browns and the Steelers. It’s only May, though, and that’s plenty of time for Haden and his teammates to keep things from changing too much.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/05/24/joe-haden-thinks-steelers-can-use-doubts-to-their-advantage/

[Oh wow]

This will probably be my most pessimistic year when it comes to expectations. Maybe after a few games I will change my tune but I’m not feeling like this is a great team right now.

Great as far as atmosphere is concerned but not sure it will translate to wins.

I usually have them slated for at least 11 wins every year but keeping my expectations low.

Maybe they will get better the closer we get to some live action.

[Steel Maniac]

The Pats KNOW what positions to pay and what positions not to pay. They are waaaaaay ahead of that then 99% of the teams in the NFL.

Captain Lemming gave a great example on how they know to pay legit cornerbacks while we're paying high end WR's. :rolleyes:

Gotta win in the playoffs.. can’t just be good in the regular season; our history is defined by what we’ve done in the playoffs.

[NJ-STEELER]

I remember having to be at a work event during Super Bowl XL. My employer put on a Super Bowl party and I got to watch with some colleagues that I didn't normally watch games with that were also Steelers fans. After the game it was crazy. One guy did nothing but complain about how terrible Ben was and how FWP got lucky and Cowher this and that. I'm thinking, "we just won the Super Bowl!!" Crazy.


yinzers are gonna yinz.

Its funny always seeing fans say how terrible Ben was in XL.
aside from the INT, which indeed was a terrible throw, what else stands out in that game as being so bad?

there were 3 - 4 balls that hit receivers in the hands. I think you can spread the blame around on those throws that ended up incomplete.
and how would his numbers look if Hines comes down with the ball in the end zone near the sideline or gains another yard on the 4th down play where ben scrambled to make a play and threw a bomb to hines that ended up on the 1 yard line?

Then Ben does something the yinzer god couldn't do with 2 tries and punches it in for the TD.
Something that's not reflected in QB rating, but if he were scam newton or colin Krapernick he would be applauded every time the SB was brought up.
He also ran a boot leg on 3rd down late in the game to move the chains and kill the clock.

maybe some "fans" should check out some other young QBs SB games? how did Goff look in this last SB with a tremendous amount of more talent at his disposal

Looking back, You know who hasn't played well in superbowl(s) for us and hardly gets a mention?
another future Hall of famer troy polumalu

Beaten by jeremy 'he soft' stevens for a TD in XL.
seattle rang up almost 400 yards on offense

SB43 -Still chasing larry Fitz on the cards go ahead TD. down by double digits entering the final quarter.
407 yards allowed by the Defense

Jennings go ahead TD right in front of TP. green bay passed the ball all over the defense. If not for a number of drops, rodgers would have thrown for 500 yards

and you can throw in the AFCC in 04. brady pumps fakes him for a long TD to put the nail in the coffin

[Oh wow]

Ben played bad in that SB, especially compared to how he played leading up to it.

No need to try and explain it any other way.

[hawaiiansteel]

It’s time we all stop reading negative things into positive Steelers quotes

Steelers players—including quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster—have been saying all the right things regarding the team, Antonio Brown, and the upcoming 2019 regular season. It’s probably best if we all stopped trying to spin these positive quotes into negative stories.

By Anthony Defeo@Defeoman May 28, 2019

“Bullspit!” That’s what many people have been saying all week regarding Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s interview with KDKA’s Bob Pompeani last Monday.

You know the interview I’m talking about, right? The one where he said he was deeply sorry for his actions that caused the rift with Antonio Brown, the guy who, to quote Roethlisberger: ‘made me who I am.’

Roethlisberger said he and Brown were great friends, and that he’s so sorry things between them have gotten to the point where the receiver now has so much contempt for the quarterback, his former buddy, friend, pal.

Roethlisberger wasn’t sincere, was he? I sure didn’t think so when I discussed the interview with my really good friend, Bryan Anthony Davis, on our weekly podcast, The Steelers Hangover.

Obviously, unlike Roethlisberger, I’m genuine, so when I say Bryan is my really good friend, I mean it. But Big Ben and AB really good friends? Big Ben was being his usual disingenuous self. The whole part about Brown making Roethlisberger who he is today. Yeah, right, Roethlisberger, the man who earned his second Super Bowl ring while Brown was still at Central Michigan.

Give me a break.

Don’t get me wrong, as I told Bryan last Monday evening, I was really glad Roethlisberger took the high road and didn’t add any more negative fuel to the on-going fire that has been No. 84 since 2018 turned into 2019, but there was no way I thought the soon to be 16-year veteran quarterback was being honest with Pompeani.

What about the part where Roethlisberger said he reached out to Brown (“Tone”) several times since their rift began and was saddened by a lack of a response? Total bull, right? At least that’s what a really awesome new caller to our show said about that when he talked to Bryan and me last Monday night around 10:30 p.m.

Another person who, like the caller to the Hangover on Monday, didn’t buy Roethlisberger’s story, was ESPN’s Marcus Spears, a former NFL player who out and out called the Steelers quarterback a ‘liar’ regarding the health of his relationship with Brown toward the end of the 2018 season.

Moving on to receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster and some of the things he said on Wednesday during OTAs. In a rather mature interview session with reporters (at least on the surface, hint, hint), Smith-Schuster said, among other things, that he’d sacrifice individual success for team goals. He also said he’d be available to reporters without restrictions in 2019.

Again, very mature. Or maybe it was all a dig at Brown, especially the quote, courtesy of the Trib’s Joe Rutter, where Smith-Schuster said, “I’m not going to be an a**hole.”

At least that’s what Steelers beat reporter Mark Kaboly from The Athletic inferred when he Tweeted another quote: “JuJu Smith-Schuster took the high road with most of his comments today but toss, IMO, a little dart at Antonio Brown: “'I will take 5 catches for 30 yards and win the game than have 10 catches, two touchdowns.'"

Kaboly quickly drew the ire of Steelers linebacker Bud Dupree who Tweeted:”Here u go tryna start beef fat boy leave the past alone.”

A bunch of people came to Kaboly’s defense after Dupree's rather tasteless—and very immature—comments to a reporter that he has to actually be around on a regular basis.

How dare Bud, right? Obviously, JuJu was going after AB with his comments, especially the a-hole part.

Speaking of insincere, that’s what I’ve mostly been up to this point regarding my opinion on the sincerity of both Roethlisberger and Smith-Schuster.

Was Roethlisberger being genuine regarding his feelings toward Brown? Was JuJu covertly taking shots at Brown when he said all of those nice things on Wednesday?

Who cares?

It doesn’t matter what I think. It doesn’t matter what Mark Kaboly thinks. It doesn’t matter what Marcus Spears thinks. The point is, these two guys said all of the right things.

And while Dupree was rather crude and, quite frankly, stupid for his fat-shaming of Kaboly, he was right about one thing: what’s up with everyone trying to start beef out of thin air?

Haven’t Steelers players provided us with enough negative quotes in recent years to write an entire book? Haven’t the fans and the media been pretty darn adamant about these guys either staying off of social media or at least acting mature while engaging with others on various platforms?

When a player says something negative, we take it at face-value. We don’t bother to speculate. We don’t even try to spin it. “That fool was being negative,” we all say.

But when a player says something positive, we say he’s full of it? We call him a liar?

If anyone’s full of it, it’s the people—including yours truly—questioning the sincerity of Roethlisberger, of Smith-Schuster.

Finally, everyone has been dying for the Steelers to say the right things, to act the right way.

They have been lately. Let’s stop spinning positives into negatives.


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/5/28/18639201/its-time-we-all-stop-reading-negative-things-into-positive-steelers-quotes-ben-roethlisberger-nfl

[NJ-STEELER]

Ben played bad in that SB, especially compared to how he played leading up to it.

No need to try and explain it any other way.

not surprising thats your view of it

[Oh wow]

not surprising thats your view of it

That was Ben’s view of it too.. but maybe he was lying.

9 of 21 for 123 yards and 2 INT’s. If that’s good to you.. well. Ok.

Name one person without Steeler goggles on who thinks Ben played well in that SB.

I’ll wait.

[Captain Lemming]

That was Ben’s view of it too.. but maybe he was lying.

9 of 21 for 123 yards and 2 INT’s. If that’s good to you.. well. Ok.

Name one person without Steeler goggles on who thinks Ben played well in that SB.

I’ll wait.

I know nobody else WITH Steeler goggles who think he played well.

He was far, far, far, far better in his last playoff loss than he was in that SB win.

[Buzz]

I know nobody else WITH Steeler goggles who think he played well.

He was far, far, far, far better in his last playoff loss than he was in that SB win.

I'd rather have him play poorly, and win the Super Bowl, than play well, and lose out somewhere short of a seventh Lombardi.

[Oh wow]

I'd rather have him play poorly, and win the Super Bowl, than play well, and lose out somewhere short of a seventh Lombardi.

I think we can all agree on that. This goes for any player too.

However, I don’t think anyone would rewrite history and say it wasn’t that bad or a performance just because we won the game.

I was in Detroit for the game. We partied hard and centered all night.

[Captain Lemming]

I'd rather have him play poorly, and win the Super Bowl, than play well, and lose out somewhere short of a seventh Lombardi.

As would I. But it is a team game. The offense had two record plays in that game.
1. Longest run
2. Longest pass thrown....by a non-QB.

Almost forgot a third record.
3. Ben contributed the worst statistical performance by a SB winning QB.

People we won despite Ben who was saved from to choking away victory.

His contribution to that ring was GETTING US THERE and he deserves credit for that.

Conversely, Ben gets all this blame in a loss when he SCORES MORE PLAYOFF POINTS THAN ANYONE IN STEELER HISTORY?

Equally ridiculous.

I know it seems contrary to my statement "we pay him to win games", but in my opinion those two games are anomalies.

Question:
Independent of all other contributions to those games, what individual performance would you prefer out of Ben week in and week out?

[Captain Lemming]

Fun fact.
Ben threw more TDs in the playoffs LOSS to the Jags than in he threw in ALL THREE SBs HE PLAYED IN COMBINED.

In his 10 seasons as a playoff QB, only ONCE did he have more TDs in an entire playoff run than he had in the Jags loss.

[Northern_Blitz]

As would I. But it is a team game. The offense had two record plays in that game.
1. Longest run
2. Longest pass thrown....by a non-QB.

Almost forgot a third record.
3. Ben contributed the worst statistical performance by a SB winning QB.

People we won despite Ben who was saved from to choking away victory.

His contribution to that ring was GETTING US THERE and he deserves credit for that.

Conversely, Ben gets all this blame in a loss when he SCORES MORE PLAYOFF POINTS THAN ANYONE IN STEELER HISTORY?

Equally ridiculous.

I know it seems contrary to my statement "we pay him to win games", but in my opinion those two games are anomalies.

Question:
Independent of all other contributions to those games, what individual performance would you prefer out of Ben week in and week out?


If I had to pick, I guess I'd go with two early turnovers and lots of yards and points after.

But that's pretty dangerous because you usually loose when the turnover ratio goes in the wrong direction.

Ultimately, I'd rather that he didn't have any turnovers so he didn't need to set records in yards / points / whatever.

[Captain Lemming]

If I had to pick, I guess I'd go with two early turnovers and lots of yards and points after.

But that's pretty dangerous because you usually loose when the turnover ratio goes in the wrong direction.

Ultimately, I'd rather that he didn't have any turnovers so he didn't need to set records in yards / points / whatever.

You know what is more dangerous? A QB who has multiple turnovers AND struggles to score.

Don't forget he had multiple turnovers on BOTH of these games.

The difference in the ultimate outcome has nothing to do with Ben.

In fact we won the SB with far worse QB play which is my point.

[Northern_Blitz]

You know what is more dangerous? A QB who has multiple turnovers AND struggles to score.

Don't forget he had multiple turnovers on BOTH of these games.

The difference in the ultimate outcome has nothing to do with Ben.

In fact we won the SB with far worse QB play which is my point.

Yep. I'd rather have neither performance because the turnovers tend to be very bad.

But if you'd have to pick, you'd clearly take the turnovers and the offensive output.

[Oh wow]

Fun fact.
Ben threw more TDs in the playoffs LOSS to the Jags than in he threw in ALL THREE SBs HE PLAYED IN COMBINED.

In his 10 seasons as a playoff QB, only ONCE did he have more TDs in an entire playoff run than he had in the Jags loss.


All teams aren’t created equal. In those earlier SB’s we paid the D handsomely and had legit stars on defense.

The Jags game we had a sub par D and paid the offense to win games. Those TO’s were much more deadly in the Jags game.

Also have to remember when those turnovers occurred in the SB vs the Jags game.

Turnovers in our red zone that force teams to go the length of the field are much more favorable than turnovers on our side of the field or TO’s that result in 6 points.

The other problem in the Jags playoff loss was anytime the D got a stop the O didn’t score points. We either turned it over on downs or turned it over or punted.

[Oh wow]

Yep. I'd rather have neither performance because the turnovers tend to be very bad.

But if you'd have to pick, you'd clearly take the turnovers and the offensive output.

I’d take a defense that forced turnovers to balance things out.

[Northern_Blitz]

I’d take a defense that forced turnovers to balance things out.

That would certainly help.

Ideally, we'd have a D that created turnovers and an O that didn't give them up.

But last year we had the opposite.

[Captain Lemming]

All teams aren’t created equal. In those earlier SB’s we paid the D handsomely and had legit stars on defense.



Correct Dizz.
Interestingly, that monetary distribution strategy is one "I" have advocated, while you argued the merits of giving top dollar to flashy, elite, backs and receivers.
Then, you blame Ben for losing a game when he throws FIVE touchdowns more than the putrid defense.

If you score 42 you should be able to throw two PICK SIXES and STILL win the game.

Your words my friend......we won when we paid for elite DEFENSIVE talent.

[Steel Maniac]

Correct Dizz.
Interestingly, that monetary distribution strategy is one "I" have advocated, while you argued the merits of giving top dollar to flashy, elite, backs and receivers.
Then, you blame Ben for losing a game when he throws FIVE touchdowns more than the putrid defense.

If you score 42 you should be able to throw two PICK SIXES and STILL win the game.

Your words my friend......we won when we paid for elite DEFENSIVE talent.

Boom..........................

[Oh wow]

Correct Dizz.
Interestingly, that monetary distribution strategy is one "I" have advocated, while you argued the merits of giving top dollar to flashy, elite, backs and receivers.
Then, you blame Ben for losing a game when he throws FIVE touchdowns more than the putrid defense.

If you score 42 you should be able to throw two PICK SIXES and STILL win the game.

Your words my friend......we won when we paid for elite DEFENSIVE talent.

Wrong. You can’t just pay anyone. You have to draft and acquire talent. When you can’t you have to outscore your opponent.

It’s not like we got rid of good defensive players to pay offensive players.

You go to battle with the team you have and when you have a “top flight” offense you need to score points AND not give up pick sixes.

It’s down right offensive to say our O can give a team 14 points and then blame the D.

Defenses always play better when they have a lead and not when they are trailing by 21 points and trying to make plays to compensate for the offenses sloppy play.

[NJ-STEELER]

did you even read the reply I wrote? apparently not since you didn't include the rushing stats I mentioned

AAANNNDDD, this is what I actually said



Its funny always seeing fans say how terrible Ben was in XL.
aside from the INT, which indeed was a terrible throw, what else stands out in that game as being so bad?



there, I even enlarged it for you so you don't skip over it.

I have little doubt that the stage was too big for him and that it did indeed effect his play, as it does with many QBs that get to the big game so early in their career.
that said, he still made plenty of plays which led to a victory.
And he was still by far the Playoff MVP for us in that post season

after the performance in the 3 previous games, as you mentioned,
I agree, it was a let down. Its hard not to have a bit of a let down when you set a record for being the 1st QB to win 3 playoff games on the road while having over 100 QB rating in each game.

so yeah, I can put up with the average game he had because of his play that got em there.

just like I can excuse troy's pitiful Plays in the Playoff games I mposted for the overall greatness he brought each week. Its pretty weird how I don't see them mentioned as much as Ben's Superbowl XL play

[Captain Lemming]

Wrong. You can’t just pay anyone. You have to draft and acquire talent. When you can’t you have to outscore your opponent.



Oh you dont get off that easy.
You asked me that when I suggested we should not have signed Brown.

I replied we should have gone hard after a free agent corner instead.
I SPECIFICALLY said if we could have signed Stephen Gilmore and left Brown walk.

We gave Brown 68 mil over 4 years. Pats signed Gilmore THAT SAME YEAR at 65 over 5 years. We had the dough to SIGNIFICANTLY outbit NE if we let Brown go.

Now we were loyal to our guy (like you wanted) and he punks us for doing it.

Remember how you mocked me when Gilmore had a bad game or two in his first Pats season?

We got no ring with Brown.

Gilmore?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv7xL_OWsAEGKWM.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AVyzNO7Ea2gi-41LCNq0-NfsKzU=/0x0:3479x2319/1200x800/filters:focal(1247x729:1803x1285)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63033577/usa_today_12105824.0.jpg

[Captain Lemming]

did you even read the reply I wrote? apparently not since you didn't include the rushing stats I mentioned

AAANNNDDD, this is what I actually said

[QUOTE]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/SultanThemeVB4R/blackorange/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/images/SultanThemeVB4R/blackorange/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=766064#post766064)Its funny always seeing fans say how terrible Ben was in XL.

aside from the INT, which indeed was a terrible throw, what else stands out in that game as being so bad?


there, I even enlarged it for you so you don't skip over it.

I didnt miss anything. You want to ask, "aside from the interception"?
I dont know....the OTHER interception? :) (did you forget he had TWO?)

How bout 3 and out EVERY SERIES (not one first down) in the first quarter?




I have little doubt that the stage was too big for him and that it did indeed effect his play, as it does with many QBs that get to the big game so early in their career.

Kinda all I'm saying.


that said, he still made plenty of plays which led to a victory.

Fewer than he typically has is a loss.


And he was still by far the Playoff MVP for us in that post season


True....still does not mean he played well in the SB.....my only point.....one you just now conceded.


I agree, it was a let down. Its hard not to have a bit of a let down when you set a record for being the 1st QB to win 3 playoff games on the road while having over 100 QB rating in each game.
so yeah, I can put up with the average game he had because of his play that got em there.


NJ, you talk about "reading what YOU write.
Mirror on that my friend.

You replied to "my" comment that Ben played poorly in the SB.

You come at me with arguments about his playoff record???
Troy? Really?

The ONLY point defending his SB play is a weak point about the 6-inch controversial touchdown he scored. He ran for a first down late in the game?
That is Kordell on a BAD day.

It was literally one of the worst playoff performances of his career.

He was better in the SB LOSS to the Packers.

[Northern_Blitz]

[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;766291]did you even read the reply I wrote? apparently not since you didn't include the rushing stats I mentioned

AAANNNDDD, this is what I actually said





I didnt miss anything. You want to ask, "aside from the interception"?
I dont know....the OTHER interception? :) (did you forget he had TWO?)

How bout 3 and out EVERY SERIES (not one first down) in the first quarter?





Kinda all I'm saying.



Fewer than he typically has is a loss.



True....still does not mean he played well in the SB.....my only point.....one you just now conceded.



NJ, you talk about "reading what YOU write.
Mirror on that my friend.

You replied to "my" comment that Ben played poorly in the SB.

You come at me with arguments about his playoff record???
Troy? Really?

The ONLY point defending his SB play is a weak point about the 6-inch controversial touchdown he scored. He ran for a first down late in the game?
That is Kordell on a BAD day.

It was literally one of the worst playoff performances of his career.

He was better in the SB LOSS to the Packers.

Yep.

Ben got us there, but sucked in the first SB.

[Oh wow]

Oh you dont get off that easy.
You asked me that when I suggested we should not have signed Brown.

I replied we should have gone hard after a free agent corner instead.
I SPECIFICALLY said if we could have signed Stephen Gilmore and left Brown walk.

We gave Brown 68 mil over 4 years. Pats signed Gilmore THAT SAME YEAR at 65 over 5 years. We had the dough to SIGNIFICANTLY outbit NE if we let Brown go.

Now we were loyal to our guy (like you wanted) and he punks us for doing it.

Remember how you mocked me when Gilmore had a bad game or two in his first Pats season?

We got no ring with Brown.

Gilmore?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv7xL_OWsAEGKWM.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AVyzNO7Ea2gi-41LCNq0-NfsKzU=/0x0:3479x2319/1200x800/filters:focal(1247x729:1803x1285)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63033577/usa_today_12105824.0.jpg

You want it both ways. You can’t brag about Ben throwing 5 TD’s (last TD was garbage time) when 2 of them were amazing throws AND catches by a player you didn’t want to sign.

..and we picked up a great CB in FA.

Funny how you keep using the one team who has defied all odds in this era as the difference between us winning a SB or not.

That same Pats team that beat the Rams was a lucky offsides call from losing to KC when Brady threw a pick.

and that same Rams team was a terrible PI not called from losing to the Saints even though they acquired a ton of talent on D as well that year but sputtered offensively when Cooper Krupp had a season ending injury.

My point stands. Don’t turn the ball over and more times than not you will win the game. Especially when your turnovers result in points or extremely short fields.

[Northern_Blitz]

You want it both ways. You can’t brag about Ben throwing 5 TD’s (last TD was garbage time) when 2 of them were amazing throws AND catches by a player you didn’t want to sign.

..and we picked up a great CB in FA.

Funny how you keep using the one team who has defied all odds in this era as the difference between us winning a SB or not.

That same Pats team that beat the Rams was a lucky offsides call from losing to KC when Brady threw a pick.

and that same Rams team was a terrible PI not called from losing to the Saints even though they acquired a ton of talent on D as well that year but sputtered offensively when Cooper Krupp had a season ending injury.

My point stands. Don’t turn the ball over and more times than not you will win the game. Especially when your turnovers result in points or extremely short fields.

There are lots of complicated things about football.

But one thing is super basic. Turnovers are very bad and when you turn the ball over more than the opponent, you usually lose (especially if you're -2 or worse).

[Steel Maniac]

There are lots of complicated things about football.

But one thing is super basic. Turnovers are very bad and when you turn the ball over more than the opponent, you usually lose (especially if you're -2 or worse).

exactly......

[Oh wow]

There are lots of complicated things about football.

But one thing is super basic. Turnovers are very bad and when you turn the ball over more than the opponent, you usually lose (especially if you're -2 or worse).

Indeed. CL loves to say 5 TD’s but the last one was garbage time, the game was essentially over.

Early TO’s that result in quick points puts a defense in a terrible position of over compensating and trying to make a splash play.

What’s crazy is when you rewatch the condensed game (torture) you see the defense making 3 or 4 stops and our offense failed to convert damn near every time. We even blocked a punt but gave the ball back on downs.

[Captain Lemming]

There are lots of complicated things about football.

But one thing is super basic. Turnovers are very bad and when you turn the ball over more than the opponent, you usually lose (especially if you're -2 or worse).

True....turnovers are bad..no brainer.

Score 42 points.....ONE fumble and ONE pick (2 turnovers) should not cost the game.

We once before scored 42 point in a postseason game.
We won 42-14 losing the turnover battle with three turnovers.

Again 42 points are the most points the Steelers have EVER scored in the post season.

Is that unusual?
Of the FOURTEEN highest scoring playoff games in Steeler history, it is the ONLY loss.

NINE of those winning 13 games featured at least 2 turnovers.
FIVE of those games featured 3 or more turnovers.

let me expand beyond the top 14 scoring games.

We scored 30 in playoff games 17 times.
Prior to the JAX loss....the team was 16-1 in those games
Of those games 10 featured multiple turnovers.

THE ONLY OTHER GAME IN STEELER HISTORY when we scored 30 and lost......
....we actually WON the turnover battle turning it over only once and forcing 4.

Bottom line people.
Prior to the Jax game NEVER ONCE IN STEELER HISTORY has scoring 30 points been offset by turnovers. NEVER.

To put the greater blame on 2 turnovers more the defense that got destroyed is ridiculous.

Seriously people, two turnovers is not even a big number for this team.

[NJ-STEELER]

[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;766291]did you even read the reply I wrote? apparently not since you didn't include the rushing stats I mentioned

AAANNNDDD, this is what I actually said





I didnt miss anything. You want to ask, "aside from the interception"?
I dont know....the OTHER interception? :) (did you forget he had TWO?)

How bout 3 and out EVERY SERIES (not one first down) in the first quarter?





Kinda all I'm saying.



Fewer than he typically has is a loss.



True....still does not mean he played well in the SB.....my only point.....one you just now conceded.



NJ, you talk about "reading what YOU write.
Mirror on that my friend.

You replied to "my" comment that Ben played poorly in the SB.

You come at me with arguments about his playoff record???
Troy? Really?

The ONLY point defending his SB play is a weak point about the 6-inch controversial touchdown he scored. He ran for a first down late in the game?
That is Kordell on a BAD day.

It was literally one of the worst playoff performances of his career.

He was better in the SB LOSS to the Packers.

agreed,he was better in the packers superbowl. I just don't think he "sucked" like you say. I've watched plenty of football and Qbs who have "sucked" lose games by 20 points.

hines had an easier catch in the end zone that he didn't come up with then the 28 yard scramble bomb which ben eventually ran in.

you know who also played really bad and got a handful of breaks? the defense.
It gave up tons of yards and was given break after break somehow keeping seattle to a minimum amount of points.
a waived off TD, stevens dropping 2 first downs, 2 missed FGs, jackson barely a yard out of bounds on the sideline bomb, holding on haggan negating a play that would have resulted with seattle at the 2.

we're lucky the breaks were on that side of the ball I guess

[Captain Lemming]

[QUOTE=Captain Lemming;766297]

agreed,he was better in the packers superbowl. I just don't think he "sucked" like you say. I've watched plenty of football and Qbs who have "sucked" lose games by 20 points.

LOL, again YOU TELL ME to read what you write.

NJ, you attempt to quote my words here.
Try this:
Throw the quoted expression you claim I said in advanced search.
Search Captain Lemming and that word you quote.

Nevermind, this thread.....I have never once used that expression on this forum period. :)

I am "descriptive" of peoples play.....not "derogatory" in my wording.


hines had an easier catch in the end zone that he didn't come up with then the 28 yard scramble bomb which ben eventually ran in.

True....one of the worst drops of his career, a good throw by Ben.


you know who also played really bad and got a handful of breaks? the defense.
It gave up tons of yards and was given break after break somehow keeping seattle to a minimum amount of points.
a waived off TD, stevens dropping 2 first downs, 2 missed FGs, jackson barely a yard out of bounds on the sideline bomb, holding on haggan negating a play that would have resulted with seattle at the 2.

we're lucky the breaks were on that side of the ball I guess


We got all kinds of breaks. It all contributed to our winning depite the worst performance by winning SB QB.
Wanna argue the point?

Name the SB winning QB who played worse.

[Oh wow]

True....turnovers are bad..no brainer.

Score 42 points.....ONE fumble and ONE pick (2 turnovers) should not cost the game.

We once before scored 42 point in a postseason game.
We won 42-14 losing the turnover battle with three turnovers.

Again 42 points are the most points the Steelers have EVER scored in the post season.

Is that unusual?
Of the FOURTEEN highest scoring playoff games in Steeler history, it is the ONLY loss.

NINE of those winning 13 games featured at least 2 turnovers.
FIVE of those games featured 3 or more turnovers.

let me expand beyond the top 14 scoring games.

We scored 30 in playoff games 17 times.
Prior to the JAX loss....the team was 16-1 in those games
Of those games 10 featured multiple turnovers.

THE ONLY OTHER GAME IN STEELER HISTORY when we scored 30 and lost......
....we actually WON the turnover battle turning it over only once and forcing 4.

Bottom line people.
Prior to the Jax game NEVER ONCE IN STEELER HISTORY has scoring 30 points been offset by turnovers. NEVER.

To put the greater blame on 2 turnovers more the defense that got destroyed is ridiculous.

Seriously people, two turnovers is not even a big number for this team.



I wonder how many games we won when we gave up a pick 6 or a fumble that was returned for a TD?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the D played well. Going in we knew the D was our weakness so our offense had to play well.

You keep talking about 42 points. Man, we scored our last TD with 1 second left on the clock.

When you throw an INT inside your 20 on the second possession and then cough up a fumble returned for a TD it’s hard to give the offense credit.

[Captain Lemming]

I wonder how many games we won when we gave up a pick 6 or a fumble that was returned for a TD?


The only other time the Steelers scored 42 points in pthe playoffs, one of the opponents (Colts) touchdowns was an interception return pick 6.
It was one of three (not 2) turnovers.

We won 42-14

We won.
Just like EVERY OTHER TIME IN TEAM HISTORY prior to the Jax loss when we scored 30 and had multiple turnovers.

[Captain Lemming]

One guy defends an aweful performance
Another guy blames the QB after he throws 5 touchdowns because he wasn't perfect.

Truth is the dude is neither the blame for every loss, nor is he the reason for every win.

[Captain Lemming]

One more example of games with multiple turnovers, we score at least 30 and a defensive score by the opponant:

NFL Films guy:

"Mike hegman and Tom Henderson stalked him like two burglers, one held him,the other robbed him."

[Captain Lemming]

One more example of games with multiple turnovers, we score at least 30 and a defensive score by the opponant:

NFL Films guy:

"Mike hegman and Tom Henderson stalked him like two burglers, one held him,the other robbed him."

Also happened versus the Ravens 2010
We scored over 30/ multiple turnovers/One turnover was a score

[Oh wow]

Also happened versus the Ravens 2010
We scored over 30/ multiple turnovers/One turnover was a score

So it’s not common. Thanks

and stop saying 5 TD’s when the last one was with 1 second left when the game was already determined.. lol.

[Northern_Blitz]

One guy defends an aweful performance
Another guy blames the QB after he throws 5 touchdowns because he wasn't perfect.

Truth is the dude is neither the blame for every loss, nor is he the reason for every win.

Lemming, timing matters.

The one thing we needed to do against the Jags was not let them get a lead early.

Then, our superior O gets a lead and their anemic O has to take chances and push the ball.

Instead, they got out to a big lead early and we didn't take away their running game.

And our superstar QB gave them 14 points right out of the shoot. We got lots of yards and points back, but were down by 2 scores for most of the game against one of the best D's in the last decade or so.

It was great that Ben didn't give up and got us close to winning. But, I think it's crazy how you don't see that he was also the reason that we needed a heroic offensive effort to even be in the game at the end.

I think that game more than anything is a microcosm of Ben's career (except we lost instead of winning). More stupid mistakes than most great QBs. And more great play than most QBs too.

I think Ben's always been a high variance player, and in that game we got bad Ben and great Ben.

I also get that we win that game if the D didn't suck. The difference is that the D was expected to be bad (especially Spence), where Ben was expected to be the reason we won. He almost was... But he made two huge early turnovers that set the tone for the game.

I also get that that game was better than his 1st SB win. But that game is probably the worst playoff performance in his career.

[flippy]

More stupid mistakes than most great QBs. And more great play than most QBs too.

That pretty much sums up our QB. The best worst player or worst best player in the game.

No player amazes me like Ben. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. There’s definitely nothing ordinary about him.

[Steel Maniac]

if all the things you guys are complaining about Ben are known to you, then they should be known to the coaching staff right? So, give him a good defense so he can function at an optimal level. But or GM and coach have not done that in years.

We’ve all known who he was since 2010 at least. Yet you blame him when he has to constantly cover for defense that has been subpar in the playoffs. The same defense that allowed Blake Bortles to score 17 points in the 4th quarter alone in our last playoff game. Blake Bortles.... but that’s Ben fault too?

[Northern_Blitz]

That pretty much sums up our QB. The best worst player or worst best player in the game.

No player amazes me like Ben. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. There’s definitely nothing ordinary about him.

And I've been lucky to see his career from the beginning (unlike Bradshaw who I basically missed).

Ben is anything but boring.

[Steel Maniac]

if all the things you guys are complaining about Ben are known to you, then they should be known to the coaching staff right? So, give him a good defense so he can function at an optimal level. But or GM and coach have not done that in years.

We’ve all known who he was since 2010 at least. Yet you blame him when he has to constantly cover for defense that has been subpar in the playoffs. The same defense that allowed Blake Bortles to score 17 points in the 4th quarter alone in our last playoff game. Blake Bortles.... but that’s Ben fault too?

[Oh wow]

We’ve tried to put together a good defense but it’s not as easy as snapping your fingers.

The Shazier injury, the inconsistency of Tuitt, Heyward always being dinged up and a 1st Rd CB who lost his confidence.

Not excuses just the reality of how things played out.

Also, Ben played with the best defense while on his rookie contract. Once you pay franchise numbers it gets much harder to keep guys around.

I know everyone wants to blame AB and Bell but we have paid out big money to our OL AND Heyward, Tuitt and Haden aren’t making chump change either.

Ben doesn’t have to cover, he just has to do his job. He had 6 or 7 turnovers against the Jags and pretty sure 5 of them resulted in short fields or were returned for TD’s.

[Steel Maniac]

But wow,

That’s not Ben’s fault that we haven’t had a defense that can perform in the playoffs for a decade. That’s not Ben’s fault. Yes, Ben messes up early in the Jags playoff game. But you act like that was uncommon against that defense. That Jags defense was the best in the league that year. Ben came back and atoned for it by throwing 5 Tds. If the defense plays any type of ball in the second half of that game, we win. We had the entire second half ( especially the 4th quarter) to win that game and we didn’t because we couldn’t stop the run or cover grade C wide receivers.

[Steel Maniac]

If a qb messes up, I want him to do it early so we have the majority of the game of our supposedly SUPERIOR team to come back. What you are failing to see is that as long as we have a subpar defense , it doesn’t matter who we have on offense, we are not going anywhere.

History has shown us that all too heavy teams on offense only have not won a Super Bowl ever. But teams that are too heavy on defense have won Super Bowls.

Defense matters in the end.

[RuthlessBurgher]

We’ve tried to put together a good defense but it’s not as easy as snapping your fingers.

If some fans had access to an infinity gauntlet, they'd snap their fingers and turn guys like Vince Williams, Bud Dupree, and Sean Davis to dust. ;)

[hawaiiansteel]

If some fans had access to an infinity gauntlet, they'd snap their fingers and turn guys like Vince Williams, Bud Dupree, and Sean Davis to dust. ;)

don't forget Artie Burnt, he'd have been vaporized long ago.

[Steel Maniac]

We’ve tried to put together a good defense but it’s not as easy as snapping your fingers.

The Shazier injury, the inconsistency of Tuitt, Heyward always being dinged up and a 1st Rd CB who lost his confidence.

Not excuses just the reality of how things played out.

I hear you. But we knew who Ben was and his short comings. It was up to Colbert/ Tomlin to put together a secondary in an 8 year period. It’s not Ben’s fault that they couldn’t put together a secondary in almost a full decade now.

[Northern_Blitz]

If a qb messes up, I want him to do it early so we have the majority of the game of our supposedly SUPERIOR team to come back. What you are failing to see is that as long as we have a subpar defense , it doesn’t matter who we have on offense, we are not going anywhere.

History has shown us that all too heavy teams on offense only have not won a Super Bowl ever. But teams that are too heavy on defense have won Super Bowls.

Defense matters in the end.

If you think that Ben can't win without a great D, do you think he deserves the contract we game him?

I guess I think we rely on Ben to be way more than a game manager.

I don't get how you can say that he didn't come up short at home in the playoffs.

That doesn't absolve the D. But we live and die with Ben's play and it's tough to come back after giving the best D a 14 point cushion.

Is great that we didn't give up, and that Ben was awesome after his mistakes. But the turnovers were critical to the loss as well.

[Oh wow]

But wow,

That’s not Ben’s fault that we haven’t had a defense that can perform in the playoffs for a decade. That’s not Ben’s fault. Yes, Ben messes up early in the Jags playoff game. But you act like that was uncommon against that defense. That Jags defense was the best in the league that year. Ben came back and atoned for it by throwing 5 Tds. If the defense plays any type of ball in the second half of that game, we win. We had the entire second half ( especially the 4th quarter) to win that game and we didn’t because we couldn’t stop the run or cover grade C wide receivers.

No one is saying others don’t deserve blame.

The problem is everyone keeps using the 5TD’s like they happened in a vacuum.

Let’s stop acting like we were the superior team. Pretty sure the D played well vs the Hags in the first game and we still lost badly because Ben had 4 turnovers.

You simply can’t turn the ball over early vs a team who is good on the ground. It’s too easy to get the D to bite in play action.

Far too many times we see teams fight back from huge deficits and then come up short when they have a chance to seal the deal because you use way more energy when you play uptempo football or basketball.

and we have seen good offenses and middle of the pack defenses in SB’s.

We aren’t even talking SB tho, just a playoff game.

[Steel Maniac]

If you think that Ben can't win without a great D, do you think he deserves the contract we game him?

I guess I think we rely on Ben to be way more than a game manager.

I don't get how you can say that he didn't come up short at home in the playoffs.

That doesn't absolve the D. But we live and die with Ben's play and it's tough to come back after giving the best D a 14 point cushion.

Is great that we didn't give up, and that Ben was awesome after his mistakes. But the turnovers were critical to the loss as well.

North, I hear you...

But after the early mess up, he threw 5 TD's. At that point, all he could do was be good and he was. You can't absolve the defense from it's responsibilities.
At the beginning of the 4th quarter, with us finally back in the game, it was up to the defense to get ONE stop. One. That's all we needed. The game wasn't lost in the 1st quarter,,,the game was lost in the 4th quarter. Our defense made Blake Bortles look like Tom Brady. Remember, the previous week, Bortles scored 10 points in the entire game!...........AT HOME! He scored 17 points alone in the 4th quarter against us.

Our defense made Bortles looked SO good in that game that he got an extension for the following season!!

North, the game wasn't lost in that 1st qtr; Im sorry but I don't' agree with you on that. We lost the game in the 4th quarter when our defense couldn't stop Blake Bortles or their running game. When VW got absolutely trucked by Fournette for an eighteen yard TD.

[Oh wow]

3rd Quarter.

We score on the first drive.
D forced a punt.
Offense does nothing.
D blocks a punt.
Offense runs 4 plays and gives it right back.

You have 2 stops and our O does nothing on 2 drives.

The problem is our O only responded after the D gave up a TD.

You can’t keep having short drives that force an average D to make stops.

Yes. They were bad in the 4th but this is what happens when your O gives a team a 14 point cushion and they play desperate.

[Captain Lemming]

So itÂ’s not common. Thanks


I said "also" the Ravens game.
It was my THIRD example.


We won EVERY TIME (10 times) we have scored at least 30 AND had multiple turnovers.
Per your request, I gave you three examples of games where the opposing defense scored on one of those multiple turnovers.

I am going to repeat my original contention.
If you score 42 it SHOULD NEGATE 2 turnovers EASY.

And the FACT IS UNDENIABLE.....
THIS TEAM HAS NEVER ONCE BEFORE SUFFERED DEFEAT DUE TO MULTIPLE TURNOVERS IN A GAME THAT WE SCORED 30......Nevermind 42.
Your contention that defensive scores would change that? Nope, I gave you THREE examples of that

[Captain Lemming]

Lemming, timing matters.

The one thing we needed to do against the Jags was not let them get a lead early.

Then, our superior O gets a lead and their anemic O has to take chances and push the ball.

Instead, they got out to a big lead early and we didn't take away their running game.

And our superstar QB gave them 14 points right out of the shoot. We got lots of yards and points back, but were down by 2 scores for most of the game against one of the best D's in the last decade or so.

Yes......we scored FORTY TWO against an elite defense.
We scored more than the COMBINED SCORE of BOTH other Jag playoff opponents.

The Pats ALSO fell behind and was behind most of the game.
The Jags had a 28-21 lead on us and a 17-10 lead on the Pats going into the 4th.
The EXACT SAME DIFFERENCE.

We score TWENTY ONE POINTS in the fourth quarter and STILL lost.
The Pats scored 24 point TOTAL and won.

[Captain Lemming]

The problem is everyone keeps using the 5TD’s like they happened in a vacuum.

OK please explain......

Let’s stop acting like we were the superior team. Pretty sure the D played well vs the Hags in the first game and we still lost badly because Ben had 4 turnovers.

Pretty sure those 4 turnovers has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAYOFF GAME score.
You act like TWO pick 6's and two more turnovers are equivalent to what happened in the playoff.

But since you brought it up.......FORTY TWO POINTS wins THAT GAME Dizz :)

[Oh wow]

Yes......we scored FORTY TWO against an elite defense.
We scored more than the COMBINED SCORE of BOTH other Jag playoff opponents.

The Pats ALSO fell behind and was behind most of the game.
The Jags had a 28-21 lead on us and a 17-10 lead on the Pats going into the 4th.
The EXACT SAME DIFFERENCE.

We score TWENTY ONE POINTS in the fourth quarter and STILL lost.
The Pats scored 24 point TOTAL and won.
We aren’t the Pats.

It’s time you accept it.

[Captain Lemming]

We aren’t the Pats.

It’s time you accept it.

You are right.
If our defense was simply like the Bills who allowed only 10 points the prior week....42 points DESTROYS the Jags

[Northern_Blitz]

You are right.
If our defense was simply like the Bills who allowed only 10 points the prior week....42 points DESTROYS the Jags

Exactly. It seems like you're arguing against a strawman because no one is saying that the D was anything close to good that game.

Our D was bad without Shazier, particularly against the run.

How do you make a bad D play better against a team with a good running game and a bad passing game?

You get an early lead and force them to be one dimensional in the thing they're bad at.

Instead, we gave them 14 points off the bat and let their offense use the run and PA pass to gut our D (particularly the middle of our D where we were playing a guy off the street).

Then Ben played awesome and the D continued to suck.

It's not hard to see that we lost because of turnovers and bad D. Or that we could have won if (a) the D wasn't terrible or (b) we didn't have the turnovers.

[Oh wow]

Exactly. It seems like you're arguing against a strawman because no one is saying that the D was anything close to good that game.

Our D was bad without Shazier, particularly against the run.

How do you make a bad D play better against a team with a good running game and a bad passing game?

You get an early lead and force them to be one dimensional in the thing they're bad at.

Instead, we gave them 14 points off the bat and let their offense use the run and PA pass to gut our D (particularly the middle of our D where we were playing a guy off the street).

Then Ben played awesome and the D continued to suck.

It's not hard to see that we lost because of turnovers and bad D. Or that we could have won if (a) the D wasn't terrible or (b) we didn't have the turnovers.

We also turned the ball over on downs twice.

While it isn’t a turnover it’s another knock on the offense that game.

[NJ-STEELER]

[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;766323]

LOL, again YOU TELL ME to read what you write.

NJ, you attempt to quote my words here.
Try this:
Throw the quoted expression you claim I said in advanced search.
Search Captain Lemming and that word you quote.

Nevermind, this thread.....I have never once used that expression on this forum period. :)

I am "descriptive" of peoples play.....not "derogatory" in my wording.



True....one of the worst drops of his career, a good throw by Ben.



We got all kinds of breaks. It all contributed to our winning depite the worst performance by winning SB QB.
Wanna argue the point?

Name the SB winning QB who played worse.

winning QB? maybe elway, his numbers weren't great but he also had a rushing TD not counted on his QB rating numbers.
terry's stats in IX were low for a SB winning QB

plenty of other guys who got to that game and played much worse and not coincidentally ,ended up on the losing side.
something ben didn't do. which is why I wouldn't say he "sucked"

[NJ-STEELER]

Lemming, timing matters.

The one thing we needed to do against the Jags was not let them get a lead early.


Then, our superior O gets a lead and their anemic O has to take chances and push the ball.

Instead, they got out to a big lead early and we didn't take away their running game.

And our superstar QB gave them 14 points right out of the shoot. We got lots of yards and points back, but were down by 2 scores for most of the game against one of the best D's in the last decade or so.

It was great that Ben didn't give up and got us close to winning. But, I think it's crazy how you don't see that he was also the reason that we needed a heroic offensive effort to even be in the game at the end.

I think that game more than anything is a microcosm of Ben's career (except we lost instead of winning). More stupid mistakes than most great QBs. And more great play than most QBs too.

I think Ben's always been a high variance player, and in that game we got bad Ben and great Ben.

I also get that we win that game if the D didn't suck. The difference is that the D was expected to be bad (especially Spence), where Ben was expected to be the reason we won. He almost was... But he made two huge early turnovers that set the tone for the game.

I also get that that game was better than his 1st SB win. But that game is probably the worst playoff performance in his career.

WOW,
talk about a selective memory some yinz have.
the Jags actually went down the field easily on the very first drive. 7-0

secondly,the first turnover left the ball on our 20. of course thats too much to ask from this defense to make a stop. they only have like 8 or 9 starters drafted in the top 2 rounds. probably the most of any other team in the league

and you should go take a look at that 1st INT again. vance fails to come back to the ball making it an easier pick for the jags player. that's a mistake a Pro should not make.He shares the blame on that turnover.

next possession, we drive into Jags territory where we're faced with a 3rd and 2 and our idiot coach and OC try to pitch it out wide to bell not one but twice (4th and 1) against a speed defense.
turnover on downs and once again the Jags drive the length of the field for a TD.
21-0

where is this bull**** "the O gave them 14 points off the bat" coming from?

the defense let up 2 TDs that started in Jax territory on their first 3 scores

[NJ-STEELER]

North, I hear you...

But after the early mess up, he threw 5 TD's. At that point, all he could do was be good and he was. You can't absolve the defense from it's responsibilities.
At the beginning of the 4th quarter, with us finally back in the game, it was up to the defense to get ONE stop. One. That's all we needed. The game wasn't lost in the 1st quarter,,,the game was lost in the 4th quarter. Our defense made Blake Bortles look like Tom Brady. Remember, the previous week, Bortles scored 10 points in the entire game!...........AT HOME! He scored 17 points alone in the 4th quarter against us.

Our defense made Bortles looked SO good in that game that he got an extension for the following season!!

North, the game wasn't lost in that 1st qtr; Im sorry but I don't' agree with you on that. We lost the game in the 4th quarter when our defense couldn't stop Blake Bortles or their running game. When VW got absolutely trucked by Fournette for an eighteen yard TD.

Bortles and that offense scored a whopping 10 points the week before against buffalo AT HOME in sunny florida !

Go take a look at their defensive roster that accomplished that.
Or maybe better to take a look at the coach(s) who came up with that game plan

[Oh wow]

WOW,
talk about a selective memory some yinz have.
the Jags actually went down the field easily on the very first drive. 7-0

secondly,the first turnover left the ball on our 20. of course thats too much to ask from this defense to make a stop. they only have like 8 or 9 starters drafted in the top 2 rounds. probably the most of any other team in the league

and you should go take a look at that 1st INT again. vance fails to come back to the ball making it an easier pick for the jags player. that's a mistake a Pro should not make.He shares the blame on that turnover.

next possession, we drive into Jags territory where we're faced with a 3rd and 2 and our idiot coach and OC try to pitch it out wide to bell not one but twice (4th and 1) against a speed defense.
turnover on downs and once again the Jags drive the length of the field for a TD.
21-0

where is this bull**** "the O gave them 14 points off the bat" coming from?

the defense let up 2 TDs that started in Jax territory on their first 3 scores

The pass to Vance was late. I don’t think it was Vance’s fault. DB made a good play.

Ben has one of the strongest arms in the NFL but the Jags are notorious for jumping his throws outside.

It would’ve been nice if we stopped them after the INT but that’s the problem with turnovers. It puts added stress on the D.

Going 3 and out on our first possession doesn’t help the defense.

Then the D forced a stop and after 3 plays they have to go right back onto the field.

Offense ran 6 plays in their first 2 possession and never got past our own 30.

[Oh wow]

Bortles and that offense scored a whopping 10 points the week before against buffalo AT HOME in sunny florida !

Go take a look at their defensive roster that accomplished that.
Or maybe better to take a look at the coach(s) who came up with that game plan

One thing about Buffalo with Tyrod at QB is they play an ugly conservative brand of football. It reminds me of Cowher ball with Kordell or Jeff Graham or whatever that scrubs name was... . Just ugly. If a guy isn’t wide open by 10 yards he is tucking and running or even running out of bounds for a loss.

That’s how they stay in games but they aren’t built to win much either.

[Northern_Blitz]

WOW,
talk about a selective memory some yinz have.
the Jags actually went down the field easily on the very first drive. 7-0

secondly,the first turnover left the ball on our 20. of course thats too much to ask from this defense to make a stop. they only have like 8 or 9 starters drafted in the top 2 rounds. probably the most of any other team in the league

and you should go take a look at that 1st INT again. vance fails to come back to the ball making it an easier pick for the jags player. that's a mistake a Pro should not make.He shares the blame on that turnover.

next possession, we drive into Jags territory where we're faced with a 3rd and 2 and our idiot coach and OC try to pitch it out wide to bell not one but twice (4th and 1) against a speed defense.
turnover on downs and once again the Jags drive the length of the field for a TD.
21-0

where is this bull**** "the O gave them 14 points off the bat" coming from?

the defense let up 2 TDs that started in Jax territory on their first 3 scores

Sure. "off the bat" was maybe a bit dramatic.

1st possession. 3 and out.

2nd posession. Int that gave Jax the ball at the 20. They score a TD.

3rd posession. Turnover on downs. Jacksonville scored a TD.

4th posession. TD

5th possession. Fumble goes the other way for 6.

So in 5 possessions we got 7 points and gave up 21 on turnovers (although we at least got deep in their territory on the turnover on downs).

Hard to say that the O wasn't bad at the beginning of the game. Or that they helped build the hole we couldn't climb out of (despite a valiant attempt by Ben after the fumble).

The D also sucked, but that doesn't make the O blameless.

[Northern_Blitz]

North, I hear you...

But after the early mess up, he threw 5 TD's. At that point, all he could do was be good and he was. You can't absolve the defense from it's responsibilities.
At the beginning of the 4th quarter, with us finally back in the game, it was up to the defense to get ONE stop. One. That's all we needed. The game wasn't lost in the 1st quarter,,,the game was lost in the 4th quarter. Our defense made Blake Bortles look like Tom Brady. Remember, the previous week, Bortles scored 10 points in the entire game!...........AT HOME! He scored 17 points alone in the 4th quarter against us.

Our defense made Bortles looked SO good in that game that he got an extension for the following season!!

North, the game wasn't lost in that 1st qtr; Im sorry but I don't' agree with you on that. We lost the game in the 4th quarter when our defense couldn't stop Blake Bortles or their running game. When VW got absolutely trucked by Fournette for an eighteen yard TD.

I literally said that I didn't absolve the D.

They were terrible.

But the O was also putrid for most of the first half.

Jax was the better team in both games we played them that year. They deserved to win.

[hawaiiansteel]

Jax was the better team in both games we played them that year. They deserved to win.

as much as it pains me to admit that, I have to agree.

[NJ-STEELER]

The pass to Vance was late. I don’t think it was Vance’s fault. DB made a good play.

Ben has one of the strongest arms in the NFL but the Jags are notorious for jumping his throws outside.

It would’ve been nice if we stopped them after the INT but that’s the problem with turnovers. It puts added stress on the D.

Going 3 and out on our first possession doesn’t help the defense.

Then the D forced a stop and after 3 plays they have to go right back onto the field.

Offense ran 6 plays in their first 2 possession and never got past our own 30.

anddd?
does the offense have to score on every possession? every early possession? that was the same idiotic argument when the chiefs put up 21 points in the 1st quarter even though the offense scored 37

there's a reason why just about every analyst said this would be a close game. a battle of the team's strengths going against each other. no one predicted the jags pop gun offense to go up and down the field like they did.
again...twice in their first 3 scores without the steelers offense giving them a boost as you say

its funny hearing this argument over and over again. the offense can score over 30 but we can't ask the defense to stop a pedestrian Jags offense 50% of the time

what's the percentage of blame you put on the offense that game?


PS. the throw was a bit late and Vance failed to come back to the ball. 2 mistakes ending up in a turnover
but, the offense can't make a mistake, they have to play error free like the defense does, right?
one unit came back from their mistakes to score more points then anyone thought they would

[NJ-STEELER]

Instead, we gave them 14 points off the bat and let their offense use the run and PA pass to gut our D (particularly the middle of our D where we were playing a guy off the street).

.

the Defense let up an opening drive TD and 2 possessions later another TD drive of over 70 yards (turnover on downs... same as a punt would do)

they were getting their ass kicked from the start of the game. without the offense "setting them up"

the first steeler TD wiped out the turnover at our 20 and they were still behind by 14 points

[Northern_Blitz]

the Defense let up an opening drive TD and 2 possessions later another TD drive of over 70 yards (turnover on downs... same as a punt would do)

they were getting their ass kicked from the start of the game. without the offense "setting them up"

the first steeler TD wiped out the turnover at our 20 and they were still behind by 14 points

Yep.

The D was very bad.

The O was also very bad in the first half.

They made it close in the 2nd half, but the hole was too deep.

I don't understand why that's a controversial take.

You don't win many games when your turnover ratio in minus 4. It's amazing that it was a close as it was.

[Oh wow]

Yep.

The D was very bad.

The O was also very bad in the first half.

They made it close in the 2nd half, but the hole was too deep.

I don't understand why that's a controversial take.

You don't win many games when your turnover ratio in minus 4. It's amazing that it was a close as it was.

People have a hard time holding the offense accountable because we scored so many points.

The problem is once you look at situational football and how many times our O didn’t respond when the D made a stop you get to see how the offense failed as well.

Probably the most frustrating plays were the turnover on down plays.

I will admit that if we were the Pats we probably get 2 or 3 PI calls that could’ve changed the game.

[Steel Maniac]

as much as it pains me to admit that, I have to agree.

Well if you guys just want to concede that the Jags were better then case is closed.

[NJ-STEELER]

the controversial take is that you're not taking into account the match up.

most analysts said we wouldn't score 20 points the entire game against the great jax D.
they scored 14 in the 1st half !!!

But regardless, most had us winning the game because they figured the pop gun Jax offense wouldn't do much. even against our below avg defense.

bottom line is the offense did more then its fair share to win this game.
the blame on this loss is 99% on the defense

[hawaiiansteel]

the blame on this loss is 99% on the defense

we gave up 164 rushing yards in that game, it had been a long time since I saw our front 7 get manhandled like that.

[Oh wow]

we gave up 164 rushing yards in that game, it had been a long time since I saw our front 7 get manhandled like that.

Bortles had 35 yards in 5 carries.

Pretty sure 4 of his runs resulted in first downs on 3rd and long’s

[hawaiiansteel]

Bortles had 35 yards in 5 carries.

Pretty sure 4 of his runs resulted in first downs on 3rd and long’s

sounds like great defense!

[NJ-STEELER]

sounds like great defense!


offensive's fault

[Real Deal Steel]

offensive's fault

Huh???????