TE [Archive] - Pittsburgh Steelers Forum, Message Board & Chat

hawaiiansteel

06-09-2019, 11:17 PM

Buy Or Sell: Xavier Grimble Capable Of Sliding Into No. 2 Role

By Matthew Marczi
Posted on June 9, 2019

The offseason is inevitably a period of projection and speculation, which makes it the ideal time to ponder the hypotheticals that the Pittsburgh Steelers will face over the course of the next year, whether it is addressing free agency, the draft, performance on the field, or some more ephemeral topic.

That is what I will look to address in our Buy or Sell series. In each installment, I will introduce a topic statement and weigh some of the arguments for either buying it (meaning that you agree with it or expect it to be true) or selling it (meaning you disagree with it or expect it to be false).

The range of topics will be intentionally wide, from the general to the specific, from the immediate to that in the far future. And as we all tend to have an opinion on just about everything, I invite you to share your own each morning on the topic statement of the day.

Topic Statement: Fourth-year tight end Xavier Grimble is up to the task of assuming the role of the number two at the position.

Explanation: Grimble has been with the team since 2015, spending that year on the practice squad, and has served as the number three tight end since 2016. He has had a couple of periods in which he saw some playing time, and the coaches appear to be fans of him, but he is now potentially the number two tight end with Jesse James gone.

Buy:

I think to suggest otherwise would be overselling Jesse James, or at the very least who James was through most of his career. For one thing, Grimble has always been a more powerful blocker, and more trusted in-line, which is why the Steelers have for years run a running-game package in which he is the only true tight end on the field, paired either with a fullback or a tackle-eligible.

While he has some consistency issues that can be improved, that’s nothing that wasn’t true for James, of course. And as for his receiving ability, he has made some high-quality catches over the years, even if his opportunities have dwindled. Behind Vance McDonald, and in an offense driven by the wide receivers, it’s really not a huge ask for the number two tight end, anyway.

Sell:

While this offense may be designed to be driven by the wide receivers, however, it’s generally predicated upon having at least two above after players at the position, and currently, the Steelers are only aware of having one. Whether or not they have two is yet to be determined.

In that regard, the number two tight end should be more important in the offense than it has been for a while. And it is now at the weakest that it has been for a while. Grimble is not exactly irreplaceable—not that James was—and the team has already tried to find another tight end through waivers.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/06/buy-or-sell-xavier-grimble-capable-of-sliding-into-no-2-role/

hawaiiansteel

06-24-2019, 06:13 PM

TE prospect Rader brings Heath Miller appreciation to Steelers

By JIM WEXELL

Fans who follow the Steelers have probably seen the play by now.

It was ranked the No. 6 play of 2016 by ESPN, and no doubt No. 1 by Youngstown State and Kevin Rader.

He's the tight end who wrapped one arm around a linebacker to pin the winning touchdown pass to that linebacker's back with one second left of the Division 1 FCS national semifinals.

When Rader, the linebacker, and the ball all went to the ground, Rader held on. Tightly.

"I didn't let go until I was down in that pile for probably 30 seconds," said Rader, a tight end who's returned home to Pittsburgh to compete for a roster spot with the Steelers.

"I knew there wasn't any time left," he said, "so I knew they were going to review it and I didn't want there to be any opportunity of a reversal. I nearly choked whoever was on the bottom of that pile with that ball."

You might also have noticed Rader's number - 83 - the same number fifth-round pick Zach Gentry wore in college. Gentry was given the number when he arrived, but Ben Roethlisberger asked him to change out of respect to Heath Miller, the tight end who made the number famous in Pittsburgh.

The difference between Gentry and Rader is that Rader chose the number at YSU because of Miller, his idol while growing up in nearby Pine-Richland.

"My favorite player was Heath Miller," Rader said. "I wore 83 in college because of him. I actually wore 38 in high school on defense."

The only active player to have worn 83 since Miller retired following the 2015 season was Cobi Hamilton for 11 games in 2016. But he could get away with it as a wide receiver called up off the practice squad.

A tight end wearing Heath's number?

Too soon.

"In my opinion that number should be retired," Rader said. "I think he was the best tight end to play here. It's going to happen eventually."

Rader played at Pine-Richland just before QB Phil Jurkovec and head coach Eric Kasperowicz came along to win WPIAL and PIAA championships, but Rader was still a first-team all-conference defensive end in 2013. That was a year after a growth spurt added 10 inches to Rader's 5-3 frame and turned him into a legitimate prospect.

"I was a late bloomer," said the 6-4, 250-pounder. "But after I put on those 10 inches I was tall and skinny, played wide receiver and defensive end. I was 205 pounds, so I wasn't big enough to play the in-line tight end yet. My senior year I played a little bit of the wing tight end and got to move around more in the offense."

The only D-1 college talking to Rader was West Virginia, but the Mountaineers gave his potential scholarship to someone else a week before signing day. So, Rader walked on at Youngstown State as a defensive end. Bo Pelini was hired as head coach the next year and moved Rader to tight end.

In his first season, Rader started only two games, both when YSU opened in three-TE sets. In 2016, Rader started 13 of 16 games and caught 17 passes for 285 yards and two scores, including the eye-popping TD that moved YSU into the title game, where it lost to James Madison. Rader's other touchdown was a 35-yarder against Robert Morris to give him a then-personal best 62 yards in the game.

Rader topped that total at Heinz Field against Pitt in the 2017 opener, when he caught six passes for 100 yards. Both totals turned out to be personal highs for Rader, who finished his career with 41 catches for 601 yards and four touchdowns - all in an offense that set a school rushing record in 2016 and nearly matched the total in 2017.

Rader wasn't drafted in 2018, but signed with the Green Bay Packers after the draft. He played in three preseason games, didn't catch a pass, and was released on Sept. 1. He turned down the Cleveland Browns to sign with the Steelers last Jan. 9.

"I went to Green Bay and they brought in Jimmy Graham and Marcedes Lewis, so in that room we had those two, Lance Kendricks, two guys from the practice squad the previous year, me and another rookie," Rader said. "There were three guys with at least eight years in the league, so the opportunity was very slim. And they're completely different than what Pittsburgh is. They're more spread out, not running the ball, one tight end base. When I got the opportunity to come here I was really excited because what I did in college was a lot of heavy run game, in line, played wherever they needed me in the run game. That was our go to - run the ball then pass the ball. And I feel that's what they do here in Pittsburgh."

What Rader loved about playing defensive end - "you've got the C gap, you're kicking that guy's ass, and you go tackle the ball; more simple, more physical football" - evolved into more thinking at tight end. But he grew to appreciate all of the nuance.

"My tight end coach in college, Coach (Joe) Ganz, came from Nebraska with Bo Pelini and he played quarterback at Nebraska," Rader said. "He kind of taught us the quarterback perspective of reading coverage and blitzes and all of that stuff. So that's how I was taught in college."

This past spring, Rader was used frequently with the Steelers' second team and was cited by offensive captain Maurkice Pouncey as one of the sleepers to watch in training camp. The Steelers are looking for a third tight end after losing Jesse James and three players from last year's practice squad and injured reserve.

"I feel confident in my play," Rader said. "Now it just comes down to getting an opportunity - and then you've got to do your job. If you don't do your job, the next guy's going to bump up. So when you get those opportunities, if it's blocking, pass-setting and route running, and you're reading coverage corrently - at tight end you've got a lot of stuff - so the more you get correct all the time, day after day after day, that's what's going to make the difference."

At one of the final minicamp practices, Rader drew praise from Mike Tomlin for a downfield block inside the 5-yard line that resulted in a touchdown for wide receiver Tevin Jones after a long catch-and-run.

"That's always been my play - always to the whistle," Rader said. "Just keep going till you hear it."

And even then, hold on to the ball. Tightly.

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Pittsburgh-Steelers-Kevin-Rader-grew-up-admiring-the-great-tight-end-133133263/

Iron City Inc.

06-24-2019, 07:01 PM

I believe everything behind VM is wide open on this team. Camp is just over 30 days away n it will be there n the pre-season to settle TE 2 ,TE3 and perhaps a TE for the PS. I'm not sure if Scotland-Williamson gets a 2nd free year because of the international thing.

Oviedo

06-25-2019, 08:04 AM

Oh wow

06-29-2019, 09:04 AM

Maybe panicked is the wrong word, but Gentry wasn’t going to be drafted. That’s what everyone has said.

Who is everyone?

Depot had Gentry as a potential Steeler before the draft.

Didn’t you also say you liked his “speed” down the seam in another post?

Steel Maniac

06-30-2019, 11:49 AM

Oviedo

07-01-2019, 08:01 AM

Grimble’s fumble against the broncos still has a lot of us upset with him. I too was upset but he’s going to get an opportunity to prove that was an aberration. Looking forward to seeing him step his game up. Hopefully.

He won't. Expect to be underwhelmed. I will predict that by the end of the season Gentry has a bigger role in the offense than Grimble.

hawaiiansteel

07-10-2019, 02:23 AM

Heading into 2019, the Pittsburgh Steelers Tight End depth is just scary

The Pittsburgh Steelers aren’t just thin at the TE position, the cupboard is practically bare.

By F. S. "Flip" Fisher
Jul 9, 2019

For many fans, the thinnest position heading into training camp for the Pittsburgh Steelers is at tight end. A perfect storm could be brewing because of the players who on the team’s depth chart. Starter Vance McDonald has been injury plagued throughout his career, Xavier Grimble has 22 receptions during his four-year career and one giant boneheaded play. Zach Gentry was selected in the fifth round despite a myriad of question marks that ranges from his athleticism to his dropping of passes. While the concerns about the three players listed above are valid, the other three tight ends on the roster make those concerns pale in comparison.

Veteran locks.

Veteran McDonald set career highs in targets, receptions, yards, and tied career highs in both games played and touchdowns. With the departure of Jesse James, could McDonald be inline for increased snaps over his 50 percent from 2018? That will depend on his level of health in 2019. In two seasons with the Steelers, the former Rice Owl has taken part in 25 of 32 possible games. For his career his numbers are even lower — 73 of 96.

Grimble has flashed ability in his three seasons with the Steelers but only has 22 receptions over that span. Playing 174 snaps in 2018 garnered only six receptions. The former USC Trojans saw the biggest catch of his career turn into one of the biggest nightmares of his career against the Denver Broncos. Pittsburgh caught the Broncos defense off guard and dumped a short pass off to Grimble who rumbled to the goal line only to be trucked by Broncos safety Will Parks. Fans point out the myriad of mistakes that the four-year vet made on the play (Carrying the ball in the wrong hand, not wrapping up the football with two hands and not avoiding contact.) and wonder about his football IQ if asked to play numerous snaps in 2019.

Lock based upon draft position?

Gentry had a rough combine with a 4.9 forty time, 12 reps on the bench press and a 7.4 3-cone drill. The former Michigan Wolverines had a productive last two seasons at hauling in 49 receptions for 817 yards and four touchdowns. The 6’8, 265-pound tight end pound tight end needs to make bigger waves than what number he wears to catch the coaching staff’s attention.

The contenders?

The other three tight ends on the Steelers roster are two relative unknowns with limited college production and a former professional rugby player.

2019 undrafted rookie free agent Trevor Wood joined the Steelers after the NFL Draft hoping to land a spot in the NFL. Wood was asked to play defense in the Wildcats bowl game which might not have bode well for his senior year at Arizona, so he transferred to Texas A&M after graduation which meant he did not have to sit a season. His college career was nondescript with 11 catches while taking part in 17 games. The official Steelers roster has him also listed as a long snapper, could this versatility lead to a roster spot?

Kevin Rader has an offseason in the NFL as he spent the 2018 offseason with the Green Bay Packers. Unable to land a roster spot with the Packers or any other team, he spent the rest of the year out of the NFL. The 6’4, 240-pound tight end was signed early in January when the Steelers could expand their roster. The former Youngstown State product had limited production in college snaring 41 passes for 601 yards and four touchdowns. A 24.7 yards per reception his senior season is one reason that Rader is getting a second go around with an NFL team in 2019. The yards per reception is surprising with him running a 4.91 forty time at his pro day.

Turning 26 later this month, Christian Scotland-Williamson is the senior citizen of this group of three players. Twenty-six is not only considered old for a player still trying to make an NFL roster for the first time but old for a player who is better known in rugby than any level of American football.

Scotland-Williamson was awarded to the Steelers through the International Pathway Program which aims to provide international athletes a pathway into the NFL while not counting against the 90 man roster or 10 man practice squad. Pittsburgh had nothing to lose by keeping the towering 6’9 Worcester Warriors on the practice squad for the season. Fast forward to 2019 and it is reported that he has lost 36 pounds which should put him around the 240 range. Will the weight loss allow him more looks than he saw in last seasons preseason where he only caught one pass?

With such limited and questionable depth at tight end, could the Steelers solicit a trade to boost a risky depth chart before training camp? Or does the team feel comfortable with the six players they have under contract? An injury to McDonald, ball security issues from Grimble, or Gentry struggling to make the transition to the NFL would open the door for Wood, Rader, or Scotland-Williamson to showcase their abilities. But can any of the three walk through that opening? This is a situation Steelers fans will hold their collective breaths during camp and preseason especially with the departure of James and AB and their productivity.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/7/9/20685798/heading-into-2019-the-pittsburgh-steelers-tight-end-depth-is-scary-vance-mcdonald-xavier-grimble

hawaiiansteel

07-14-2019, 01:58 PM

Xavier Grimble will have at least 350 yards receiving in 2019

The Pittsburgh Steelers are approaching training camp, and we provide some potential predictions for 2019.

By Simon Chester
Jul 14, 2019

With 11 days to go until the start of training camp for the Pittsburgh Steelers, we continue our 30 predictions in 30 days series with another bold claim for 2019.

Prediction: Xavier Grimble will have at least 350 yards receiving in 2019.

Why it will happen: Given the current state of the depth chart at tight end two weeks away from the start of training camp, there should be little doubt that Xavier Grimble will secure the No.2 role at the position this year. Barring a signing from outside the organization, it is highly unlikely that one of the other names on the roster such as rookie Zach Gentry or International Pathway Program prospect Christian Scotland-Williamson will show enough to challenge him for the job.

Since entering the league in 2014, the most productive season Grimble has ever recorded came in 2016 when he finished the year with 11 receptions for 118 yards. But set to see a significantly increased role in 2019, a projection of at least 350 yards receiving seems like a credible target for the 26-year-old.

When Jesse James was manning the position, this was a number he eclipsed in two of the previous three years, finishing with 423 yards in 2018, 372 yards in 2017 and 338 yards in 2016. Hitting this target will likely require Grimble to record around 35 receptions, a figure very much in line with number of catches James made as the No.2.

Given the Steelers love of using two tight end formations, Grimble should also see his fair share of snaps. And if Vance McDonald struggles to stay healthy once again, the former USC product could find himself logging a significant amount of playing time.

With 104 receptions belonging to Antonio Brown and 30 receptions belonging to James to theoretically distribute throughout the offense now both targets are playing elsewhere, Grimble could figure to be one of more notable beneficiaries this year.

Why it won’t happen: With the arrival of Donte Moncrief via free agency and Diontae Johnson via the draft, Pittsburgh has brought in two receiving options who should figure to see a lot of the targets previously earmarked for Brown. Second-year wide receiver Jamas Washington will feature more offensively, as should the slot combination of Eli Rogers and Ryan Switzer.

Simply put, Ben Roethlisberger has perhaps more viable receiving options than he has had for some time and Grimble is likely to be way down the pecking order in 2019. And with the coaching staff reportedly hoping for an expanded role from McDonald this year, the No.2 tight end may not feature quite as much as he has done in the past. Suggesting Grimble can replicate the production of James merely because he has assumed the backup role might also be considered a disservice to the player who signed a lucrative free agent deal this offseason.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/7/14/20693626/steelers-te-xavier-grimble-will-have-at-least-350-yards-receiving-in-2019-vance-mcdonald-nfl-news

Oviedo

07-14-2019, 05:57 PM

Prediction: Gentry will be bigger part of the offense than Grimble by the end of the season

Eich

07-15-2019, 01:59 PM

Prediction: Gentry will be bigger part of the offense than Grimble by the end of the season

I agree. Only in that Gentry is a part of the offense. And he's bigger than Grimble (and everyone else on the team)!

RuthlessBurgher

07-15-2019, 02:10 PM

I agree. Only in that Gentry is a part of the offense. And he's bigger than Grimble (and everyone else on the team)!

Alejandro Villanueva respectfully disagrees.

https://storage.googleapis.com/www-theplayerstribune-com/uploads/858fa6dd-527139_3472846860425_1262000741_n.jpg

Eich

07-16-2019, 08:20 AM

Alejandro Villanueva respectfully disagrees.

I forgot how big that dude is!

RuthlessBurgher

07-16-2019, 10:10 AM

I forgot how big that dude is!

Maybe you didn't notice because when you looked over at him, he was kneeling. ;) :stirpot

hawaiiansteel

07-22-2019, 02:36 AM

Steelers TE Vance McDonald Had Some Serious YAC In 2018, E-I-E-I-Oh

By Dave Bryan
Posted on July 21, 2019

Due to the loss this offseason of tight end Jesse James via free agency, the Pittsburgh Steelers addressed that position in this year’s draft by selecting Zach Gentry out of Michigan in the fifth-round. Even so, both Gentry and fellow Steelers tight end Xavier Grimble will both play behind starter Vance McDonald in 2019 and he’s coming off a career season that included him catching 50 passes for 610 yards and 4 touchdowns in the 15 games that he played in. Over half of those receiving yards that McDonald registered last season came after the catch and only fellow NFL tight ends George Kittle and Travis Kelce registered more yards after the catch than he did in 2018.

According to Pro Football Focus, McDonald registered 392 receiving yards after the catch in 2018,. His average of 7.8 yards after the catch is obviously a very healthy number and even 2.2 yards better than Kelce’s 2018 stat. That noted, it’s important to remember that one of McDonalds touchdown receptions last season, the 75-yarder for a touchdown against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in Week 3, included 64 yards gained after the catch.

That long catch and run against the Buccaneers last season aside, however, McDonald also had 12 other catches besides that one in which he gained 10 yards after making the reception. Several of those 13 total plays are listed below for you in gif form to remember and in the exact order in which they happened.

As you’ll see in these clips below, McDonald earned quite a few of those yards after the catch last season and a large amount of them came even after having been contacted by two different defensive players.

40 of the 50 receptions that McDonald had in 2018 resulted in successful plays. Additionally 35 of his 50 receptions came when the Steele offense had their 11 personnel grouping on the field.

If McDonald is once again able to stay healthy for at least 15 games in 2019, he should be able to exceed the stat line he posted in 2018. Additionally expect around half of his receiving yards in 2019 to come after the catch and that number could be over 500.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/07/steelers-te-vance-mcdonald-had-some-serious-yac-in-2018-e-i-e-i-oh/

Northern_Blitz

07-22-2019, 07:51 AM

Maybe you didn't notice because when you looked over at him, he was kneeling. ;) :stirpot

Or because it was too hard to see him because he was wearing camo. :p

Oviedo

07-22-2019, 10:39 AM

Or because it was too hard to see him because he was wearing camo. :p

Even more respect for this guy because when in a hostile fire engagement, he was always the biggest target on the battlefield. Someone upstairs had plans for him.

fordfixer

07-23-2019, 09:35 PM

Even more respect for this guy because when in a hostile fire engagement, he was always the biggest target on the battlefield. Someone upstairs had plans for him.
This X2....

hawaiiansteel

08-18-2019, 02:59 PM

Questions Still Linger About Xavier Grimble As No. 2 Tight End In Receiving Game

By Matthew Marczi
Posted on August 18, 2019

The Pittsburgh Steelers had to make do with what they had on-hand at the tight end position last night, with both rookie Zach Gentry and first-year Pathway player Christian Scotland-Williamson unable to participate in their second preseason game. The latter suffered a minor injury in the first preseason game after just a handful of snaps. Gentry played out the game, catching a touchdown pass, but would be nagged by injury during the week.

That left just Vance McDonald, Xavier Grimble, Kevin Rader, and Trevor Wood to man the position for the game, and for obvious reasons, the Steelers had great interest in preserving McDonald, their prized starter at the spot who could be poised for a breakout season.

McDonald is the only player truly assured not only of his roster spot but also his status. While Grimble has been on the 53-man roster for the past three seasons, it has consistently been as the number three option, barring injuries, so he is still auditioning for the full-time role of number two, and last night was an opportunity for him to showcase whether or not he could live up to that task.

And his first real assignment, at least as a passing target, was one that he put on the ground. Late in the first quarter, deep in their own end on second and nine, Grimble was open for Mason Rudolph, but he couldn’t secure it, putting the ball on the ground. The Steelers had to punt one play later.

The question about Grimble hasn’t really been about his blocking. He is a sufficient blocker, and had done well on a series of run plays for James Conner just prior to that play in the passing game. But following the Matt Spaeth era, the team is looking for the number two tight end to be a more versatile two-way player.

Grimble did come back and redeem himself about five minutes into the second quarter. The Steelers needed a big conversion on third and 11 and Rudolph got the ball do him down the field under similar circumstances, completing the catch in traffic.

His only other target in the game came at the end of the first half, with Joshua Dobbs missing him badly low and behind him on a crosser on third and five from the Kansas City Chiefs’ 38-yard line. The Steelers decided to go for it on fourth down, missing a deep shot.

It may have been okay for Spaeth to catch one pass per month, but Jesse James shifted that model, where the team wants to have two pass-catching options at the tight end position. Grimble putting a critical ball on the ground did him no favors in earning confidence, but then he did come back and make a similar play later on.

So where does that leave the discussion? He’s made some big catches before in the past, but they’ve been very sporadic. What kind of overall receiver can he be? Despite being in his fifth year with the organization, we still know somewhat little about him.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/questions-still-linger-about-xavier-grimble-as-no-2-tight-end-in-receiving-game/

Eddie Spaghetti

08-18-2019, 04:03 PM

grimble is a bum and should not have been brought back. it's frustrating when they keep giving guys like him 3rd and 4th chances instead if trying to improve the position

Iron City Inc.

08-18-2019, 05:44 PM

grimble is a bum and should not have been brought back. it's frustrating when they keep giving guys like him 3rd and 4th chances instead if trying to improve the position

If they didn't bring Grimble back the two guys who played last night Wood n Rader would be playing a lot more and sadly neither is as good as Grimble.

SidSmythe

08-18-2019, 06:01 PM

I think i'd be more comfortable w/ Sean Mahan @ TE than GRIMBLE
What a waste of size and athletic ability - he hasn't gotten any better than the day we first saw him.

Eddie Spaghetti

08-18-2019, 06:23 PM

If they didn't bring Grimble back the two guys who played last night Wood n Rader would be playing a lot more and sadly neither is as good as Grimble.

they could have brought in more competition than a 5th round project. grimble shouldn't be given that much job security. they definitely dodnt do enough so far, imo. if Vance goes down they have literally nothing but bodies

I still hope they add someone late

Oviedo

08-19-2019, 08:57 AM

they could have brought in more competition than a 5th round project. grimble shouldn't be given that much job security. they definitely dodnt do enough so far, imo. if Vance goes down they have literally nothing but bodies

I still hope they add someone late
I agree with this. Never saw Grimble as a viable replacement if McDonald is hurt. However, I'm not sure there was an affordable option available in free agency. That is why I advocated going after a TE earlier in the draft. That said, I do have a feeling that Gentry will be good.

hawaiiansteel

08-19-2019, 11:06 PM

Looking for a tight end?

The Steelers may be in the market for a tight end to back up Vance McDonald. Keep an eye on Tampa Bay as a trade option because Tanner Hudson is really making things complicated at tight end for the Buccaneers.

In the first two weeks of the preseason against the Steelers and the Miami Dolphins, Hudson has 13 catches for 177 yards and two touchdowns.

Some are thinking he could steal a job from backup tight end Anthony Auclair. Others are wondering if he may make Cameron Brate’s $7 million price tag expendable.

Before any of that happens, though, Hudson needs to make himself a better blocker. Head coach Bruce Arians ripped his blocking after the Miami game, saying, “He hurts himself when he gets beat on third-and-1 and we don’t make the first down. If he can learn to block he can really be an asset because he can really run and catch.”

At 6-5, 240 pounds, it may be wise to give Hudson’s blocking room to grow and perhaps deal Brate or Auclair.

https://triblive.com/sports/first-call-browns-agent-replies-to-raiders-gm-possible-tight-end-option-for-steelers/

SidSmythe

08-20-2019, 08:32 AM

Saw a Tweet from the DEPOT that DENVER might have too many TEs also

Steel Maniac

08-20-2019, 10:01 AM

Guess we'll be watching the cut list

Northern_Blitz

08-20-2019, 10:22 AM

Guess we'll be watching the cut list

Seems like TE makes the most sense for Colbert's fairly frequent late pre-season roster add.

hawaiiansteel

08-22-2019, 06:06 PM

2019 Steelers Training Camp Recap: Tight Ends

By Alex Kozora
Posted on August 22, 2019

For the rest of the preseason, we’ll give a recap, position-by-position, player-by-player of what I saw during the 2019 Pittsburgh Steelers training camp and preseason games. Let’s review the tight ends.

Tight Ends

Vance McDonald: Save for a couple of drops, that was one issue of his coming over from San Francisco, a very good camp for McDonald. He didn’t get a ton of plays downfield, averaging only 7.6 yards per reception, but that was partially inflated by how often he found the end zone (six touchdowns). That’s the stat that could increase in a big way in 2019. Not his receptions or yards. Randy Fichnter continued to split him out and isolate him on linebackers and even gave him a carry in seven shots for a two-yard score. He’ll be a key cog in the offense and I was thrilled he got through all of camp, his first as a Steeler, healthy and ready to hit the ground running for this season.

Camp Grade: B+

Xavier Grimble: Fairly quiet camp for him. Made a couple plays downfield and like McDonald, found the end zone a ton. Half of his 12 camp receptions went for scores though yes, for a guy who practiced almost every day, 12 receptions in team drills is pretty low. His blocking has continued to improve to the point where coaches let him leave the blocking sled early. It might not be fully ideal, though not dire, but he’s your #2 tight end.

Camp Grade: B-

Christian Scotland-Williamson: It was clearly evident CSW made a jump from Year one to Year Two. He played faster, looked more comfortable, and made strides as a blocker. Mike Tomlin told him if he can block a 4-3 defensive end, he’ll have a job. He recorded 53 yards on four receptions in camp, including a diving touchdown down the middle, a true highlight and testament to the work he’s put in. Few players worked as hard as him during camp.

Unfortunately, he hasn’t been healthy enough to show he can do that against 4-3 fronts like the Chiefs. He lasted five snaps in the opener before suffering a hamstring pull and missed last week. It’s unclear if he’ll be ready to go against the Tennessee Titans this Saturday. While the improvement is encouraging, the lack of availability really sets him back and he feels destined to be the “exempt” player on the practice squad again.

Camp Grade: C+

Zach Gentry: Gentry had his moments and was at his best the way he was at Michigan. Working down the seam. He’s best in a line. Crossers and seam routes. Everything else needs work and he had a low catch rate of 44%, the lowest of anyone at Latrobe.

He can generate some movement as a blocker on down blocks where he can use his size but he still struggles with leverage and creating power. Tight end is an obvious place to address from outside the organization but there may not be a good enough option to justify it. If anyone on this roster is going to be the team’s #3 against New England, it’ll be Gentry.

Camp Grade: C

Kevin Rader: Rader is a serviceable blocker. That’s about all I can say for him. His hands are poor, tying the team lead with five drops in camp, his routes rigid, and he fumbled at the end of the Bucs game while getting flagged for a pair of holds versus Kansas City. Local kid, good story, but there’s not nearly enough there to worth keeping around. Maybe he can snag a practice squad spot somewhere mid-season. The injuries to Gentry and CSW have allowed him to play a lot of snaps and put on a ton of tape for the rest of the league.

Camp Grade: D+

Trevor Wood: Wood has a decent set of hands and long snapped throughout camp, getting work there in team drills when Kameron Canaday suffered a short-term groin injury, but he, like Rader, is stiff as a route runner and an even worse blocker. Just doesn’t generate any power. There isn’t much to get excited about here and at least Rader does something sorta-well.

Camp Grade: D

Micky Crum: Signed the last day of training camp. Not enough information to offer a grade. Feels more like an H-back than a true, in-line tight end.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/08/2019-steelers-training-camp-recap-tight-ends/

RuthlessBurgher

08-26-2019, 12:08 PM

I know folks here tend to get the heebie-jeebies whenever talking about TE's with a significant injury history, but this guy might be a worthwhile risk if he becomes available.

Jake Butt feels pretty good about return to game action

Posted by Josh Alper on August 26, 2019, 7:36 AM EDT

Broncos tight end Jake Butt didn’t do much on-field work early in training camp, but things have sped up with summer winding down.

Butt took part in team drills for the first time last Wednesday and then played in the team’s game against the Rams on Saturday night. It was the first game action for Butt since he tore his ACL in Week Three last year and he caught two passes for 17 yards in his return to the lineup.

He also briefly came out of the game because he “needed to shake something out in my leg,” but quickly returned and ended the night feeling like he’s “turned the corner” in the third ACL recovery of his playing career.

“I’ve got to look at the tape, but I feel pretty good about what I did out there,” Butt said, via the team’s website. “[I] had a couple catches, I thought I blocked well and came out healthy. So it’s all good.”

First-round pick Noah Fant and Jeff Heuerman look like the top two tight ends in Denver this season. We’ll find out this week if Butt will be joining them on the 53-man roster.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/26/jake-butt-feels-pretty-good-about-return-to-game-action/

hawaiiansteel

08-26-2019, 04:00 PM

I like Jake Butt,

I cannot lie...

fordfixer

08-26-2019, 10:04 PM

I know folks here tend to get the heebie-jeebies whenever talking about TE's with a significant injury history, but this guy might be a worthwhile risk if he becomes available.
This guy has torn his ACL like 3 time already. His Luck has got to change ( or retire) soon.

RuthlessBurgher

08-27-2019, 03:23 PM

This guy has torn his ACL like 3 time already. His Luck has got to change ( or retire) soon.

Jake Butt dealing with more knee trouble

Posted by Josh Alper on August 27, 2019, 2:38 PM EDT

Broncos tight end Jake Butt played against the Rams last Saturday night and said after the game that his knee felt good in his first competitive action since tearing his ACL last year.

Butt also said he felt he’s “turned the corner” after dealing with soreness in his knee earlier this summer, but that appears to have been a premature assessment.

Broncos head coach Vic Fangio said at a Tuesday press conference that Butt will not practice on Tuesday and will not play in Thursday’s preseason finale because he’s dealing with renewed problems in his knee. Fangio added that Butt “may miss some time” as the Broncos move forward and that could put a stay on injured reserve on the table once the team makes the cut to 53 players this week.

Butt would have to be on the 53-man roster to be eligible for a return to action during the 2019 season and we’ll find out soon whether that’s the route the Broncos decide to go.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/27/jake-butt-dealing-with-more-knee-trouble/

hawaiiansteel

08-28-2019, 04:04 PM

Andrew Fillipponi
✔
@ThePoniExpress

The Steelers should kick the tires on Antonio Gates. The tight end group behind Vance McDonald is awful.

Aug 27, 2019

https://twitter.com/ThePoniExpress?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etwee tembed%7Ctwterm%5E1166439939577393152&ref_url=http %3A%2F%2Fwww.steelersuniverse.com%2Fforums%2Fshowt hread.php%2F30589-Third-string-TE%2Fpage4

RuthlessBurgher

08-30-2019, 03:08 PM

Raiders release Luke Willson

Posted by Josh Alper on August 30, 2019, 2:42 PM EDT

Tight end Luke Willson won’t be around to celebrate Raiders center Rodney Hudson‘s new contract extension.

Mike Garafolo of NFL Media reports that the Raiders are releasing Willson as they make their way to 53 players ahead of Saturday afternoon’s deadline.

Willson signed with the Raiders in March after spending last season with the Lions. He had two catches for 10 yards while appearing in three of the team’s four postseason games this month. That included Thursday night’s game, which was a pretty good sign that Willson wouldn’t be sticking around as Oakland didn’t dress many players expected to be on the field in Week One.

Garafolo added that the Raiders are keeping three tight ends. Darren Waller, Foster Moreau and Derek Carrier look like the trio that will be sticking around.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/30/raiders-release-luke-willson/

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD

2018 Detroit Lions 14 8 13 87 6.7 13 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2017 Seattle Seahawks 16 7 15 153 10.2 27T 4 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2016 Seattle Seahawks 11 6 15 129 8.6 19 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2015 Seattle Seahawks 14 7 17 213 12.5 24 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2014 Seattle Seahawks 15 10 22 362 16.5 80T 3 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2013 Seattle Seahawks 16 7 20 272 13.6 39T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

TOTAL 102 1,216 11.9 80 11

RuthlessBurgher

08-30-2019, 03:35 PM

Falcons cut tight end Logan Paulsen

Posted by Darin Gantt on August 30, 2019, 3:20 PM EDT

The Falcons have parted ways with a guy who has started for them, recently.

According to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, the Falcons have released tight end Logan Paulsen.

The 32-year-old Paulsen started 10 games for the Falcons last year, after joining them in free agency.

He’s also played for the 49ers, Bears, and Washington in his eight seasons, with 91 career receptions.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/30/falcons-cut-tight-end-logan-paulsen/

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD

2018 Atlanta Falcons 15 10 9 91 10.1 19 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2017 San Francisco 49ers 14 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2016 Chicago Bears 16 12 3 15 5.0 7 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2014 Washington Redskins 16 12 13 78 6.0 16T 1 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1

2013 Washington Redskins 16 14 28 267 9.5 33 3 -- -- -- -- -- 2 2

2012 Washington Redskins 16 10 25 308 12.3 31 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2011 Washington Redskins 16 6 11 138 12.5 24 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

2010 Washington Redskins 11 0 2 10 5.0 9 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --

TOTAL 91 907 10.0 33 7

steelerkeylargo

08-30-2019, 03:44 PM

Logan Paulsen and Luke Wilson on early cuts............YAWN

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

08-30-2019, 03:52 PM

I'm sure McDonald & Wilson had a phone conversation already about playing in Pittsburgh. Don't know if Steelers have interest. Maybe the Steelers are tinkering with the idea of moving Dobbs. Dobbs to Colts for Mo Alie-Cox? Don't know if Colts would do that. They have to be TE sniff'n!

hawaiiansteel

09-04-2019, 02:28 AM

Xavier Grimble out to prove Steelers right not adding tight ends

CHRIS ADAMSKI | Tuesday, September 3, 2019

Xavier Grimble wasn’t necessarily worried he might be a casualty during cutdown day this past weekend. But that didn’t mean the veteran tight end wasn’t keenly aware — too much so, for his liking — of what might have happened as the Pittsburgh Steelers set their 53-man roster.

“I mean, man, c’mon,” Grimble said Monday from UPMC Rooney Sports Complex, “ain’t no way you’re not going to think about it. I say (to block it out) just to mentally put yourself in that perspective the best you can to quiet it out because it will drive you nuts, trust me. I have sat in motels all day, looking at the phone, don’t want to look at it, looking online, looking at it, not looking at it…”

The 72 hours or so after the Steelers’ preseason ended were anxious ones for Grimble and fellow Steelers tight ends such as Zach Gentry and Kevin Rader. it was possible the Steelers would supplement their tight ends corps by adding a veteran via the trade market or waivers.

But the regular season begins Sunday at New England, and the tight end depth chart reads: Vance McDonald, Grimble, Gentry.

Grimble said the three of them and Rader (who made the practice squad) did the best they could to avoid speculation.

“Like I tell the young guys, ‘Stay off the media, shut out the noise, focus on getting better and let’s push each other. Let’s be accountable to each other, and let’s be the best we can be,’ ” Grimble said. “That’s all we can control. What (outsiders) say, what the coaches do upstairs, that’s gonna be on them.”

The Steelers’ decision not to add a tight end reflects positively on Grimble, who for the first time becomes a legitimate No. 2. McDonald is the clear No. 1, and Gentry probably has a role at the bottom of the depth chart as a rookie.

It was almost two years ago as the preseason wound down that coach Mike Tomlin said tight ends “haven’t been consistently varsity enough.” Within 24 hours of that statement, the Steelers traded for McDonald to prop up a group of Jesse James, Grimble and David Johnson.

This year, there was no such maneuvering. Grimble wants to prove that was the right choice.

“The bottom line (is) if you play well, we will all do ourselves a favor,” Grimble said of the mindset among the tight ends. “And it’s a collective thing. I want everybody to be good in the group, so we need everybody to show up every day, get better, push each other, be accountable, focus on the details and try to be as perfect as we can be.”

https://triblive.com/sports/xavier-grimble-appreciative-steelers-didnt-add-another-tight-end-eager-to-prove-decision-right/

hawaiiansteel

01-24-2020, 10:45 PM

Mel Kiper’s Inaugural 2020 Tight End Draft Rankings:

1. Cole Kmet, Notre Dame
2. Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt
3. Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic
4. Thaddeus Moss, LSU
5. Brycen Hopkins, Purdue
6. Hunter Bryant, Washington
7. Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri
8. Adam Trautman, Dayton
9. Colby Parkinson, Stanford
10. Jacob Breeland, Oregon

steeler_george

01-25-2020, 04:49 PM

harrison bryant... that dude can block!

NorthCoast

01-25-2020, 08:36 PM

An easy grab might be to bring back Jesse's James from DET.

He's been a complete after thought there. Had a career low of something like 16 receptions

hawaiiansteel

01-26-2020, 12:00 AM

An easy grab might be to bring back Jesse's James from DET.

He's been a complete after thought there. Had a career low of something like 16 receptions

Jesse James' cap hit the next 3 years:

2020: $5.3 million
2021: $6.4 million
2022: $7.2 milion

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2019/3/13/18263503/jesse-james-contract-details-team-friendly-detroit-lions-tight-end

Buzz

01-26-2020, 12:33 AM

Jesse James' cap hit the next 3 years:

2020: $5.3 million
2021: $6.4 million
2022: $7.2 milion

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2019/3/13/18263503/jesse-james-contract-details-team-friendly-detroit-lions-tight-end

Yeah, we're not touching him for that kind of money. But if they were to cut him, and we could sign him to a new, cheaper deal? I'd be for looking into it.

steeler_george

01-26-2020, 07:31 AM

An easy grab might be to bring back Jesse's James from DET.

He's been a complete after thought there. Had a career low of something like 16 receptions

NorthCoast, your not the only one who wants JJ back, I keep seeing it all over the internet. Don't get me wrong JJ had his time here, he reached his ceiling, as a 2-3rd TE he is "solid". Rather go forward with someone who has more potential.

So for everyone who is on JJ's return party committee, why would you want to bring back mediocrity. There was a reason why he was let go.

steeler_george

01-26-2020, 07:44 AM

Here I go again, Repeat: " Mcdonald is not worthy of being a #1TE, he is too injuried prone and comes up short so many times with drop passes!" We are quick to say replace Conner for being injury prone, McDonald is even worse. Especially since there was no depth there.

My thoughts are :
1) Cut MCdonald, don't resign Vanett he is going to ask for too much, 2M is too much for our cap.
2) Have Gentry penciled in as our starter, and go get 2 rookies in the draft, there is going to be value where we pick, ( Trautman, Harrison Bryant, Hopkins) and sign several UDFA to see if we find a gem. ( that OSU kid)
3) Pre season, if we are still in need, make a trade similar what brought McDonald and Venette here.

Ernie

01-26-2020, 07:49 AM

steeler_george

01-26-2020, 10:12 AM

We are in sad, sad shape if we cant sign Vannett to a 2M deal. Assuming we let McDonald go.. he would be our starting TE. Gentry is nowhere near ready to be TE#1.
I swear i almost think we need to let Dupree and Hargrave both walk in order to keep the bulk of our other pieces in place.

Ernie, I am almost on boat with you, the cap cuts to Mcdonald, Foster, Chicko, and Barron (He is 31, I wonder if it is worth extending his contract, keep him for another year or so)are not in our future plans, where Dupree is in our future.

Vannett played well for us, maybe he would excel with Ben or a stable/solid offense. He was traded out in Seattle in favor of cheaper players Disley, Holsten and Willlson, because they are aware that he is not going to be worth resigning.

I rather go with potential at TE, than just someone who is ok. Put that 2 M with other cap savings ( Ben's 3M) and sign Hilton, Feiler, or our other FA.

hawaiiansteel

02-05-2020, 01:36 AM

Even If Vance McDonald Bounces Back, Steelers Need Serious Help At TE

By Alex Kozora
Posted on February 3, 2020

Let’s cut right to the chase.

The Pittsburgh Steelers need to invest heavily in a tight end. They’re long overdue.

For a franchise built through the draft since Chuck Noll and Bill Nunn arrived on scene, for too long they’ve ignored the position. But Alex, you’ll say, they had Heath Miller. There was no need to invest. Fair enough. But Miller’s been retired since 2015 and Pittsburgh’s far from the only team to have a cornerstone tight end over the last decade.

Here are the facts. The last tight end the organization’s selected on Day One or Two of the draft, top three rounds, was Matt Spaeth.

In 2008.

Their highest selection at the position has been the 5th round. Jesse James in 2015, Zach Gentry last year.

Since 08, every other team has used at least a fourth round pick on a tight end. 31 of the 32, Carolina being the only exception, invested a third round pick or higher on a tight end.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/02/even-if-vance-mcdonald-bounces-back-steelers-need-serious-help-at-te/

steeler_george

02-05-2020, 08:21 AM

Wow... I just went back and read thread from the beginning. Funny reading this post, this was right after the draft. It seemed we all had high hopes for the O, and that TE was our only weakness, only if we would of known.... How things change so quickly...

A year later we are back to the same problem. Is it me, or does it seem like the front office is a year or two late. We need ILB after Schazier, we gathered bums, till we drafted Bush. We need Safeties, we went with Davis and bums, till we drafted Edmunds and got lucky with Fitz. So hopefully we solve the TE this year.

I think we should go all in Ravens draft of 2018. They cleared the house with Pitta and crew, and they went on and drafted 2 TEs- Hurst in the 1st, and Andrews in the 3rd.

Back to rereading this thread....

Ruthless made some good points, one that stuck our was how the Raiders released Willlson ( how many "L" does this guy have in his name?), and Seattle picked him up. He probably is the reason why Vanette was expendible. Willllllson played excellent for Seattle, we should of picked him up and saved the 5th in this draft. ( who would of known right? besides Ruth making that pick)

Oviedeo also made a prediction that Gentry will overtake Grimble in having a bigger role towards end of season, and that Grimble was not a #2 TE. Gentry in last 2 games didn't appear that bad, he looked already equal to JJ, but it was what 5 plays. (Remind me to listen to you more)

Jake Butt what eve happened to that guy?

That Hudson dude too?

hawaiiansteel

02-12-2020, 05:30 PM

Report: Chargers could use franchise tag on Hunter Henry after Rivers departure

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/chargers-franchise-tag-hunter-henry/537583

Buzz

02-12-2020, 06:25 PM

Report: Chargers could use franchise tag on Hunter Henry after Rivers departure

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/chargers-franchise-tag-hunter-henry/537583

I expect that they will. HH is too pricey for us, anyway, and hasn't had a real good track record with injuries thus far.

NorthCoast

02-12-2020, 08:21 PM

I expect that they will. HH is too pricey for us, anyway, and hasn't had a real good track record with injuries thus far.yep... with the Steelers cap space they will be shopping for a TE here:

https://www.wtvm.com/resizer/ZK43mlGZeH4aXDpJSzm_tur7yDs=/1200x600/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NOGIYOSWCNAFXJZGRFJFQWXNCU.jpg

whatever

02-12-2020, 08:27 PM

yep... with the Steelers cap space they will be shopping for a TE here:

https://www.wtvm.com/resizer/ZK43mlGZeH4aXDpJSzm_tur7yDs=/1200x600/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/NOGIYOSWCNAFXJZGRFJFQWXNCU.jpg

True, but in their clearance section.

Ghost

02-13-2020, 11:00 AM

steeler_george

02-13-2020, 11:42 AM

If the Steelers could grab Adam Trautman (Dayton) or Harrison Bryant (FAU) or Albert Okwuegbunam (Missouri) at pick 38 in the 2nd round, that'd be tremendous value. I've seen a couple of mocks where some of not all three are available then.

I really think that we will have the #1 TE on the board at our disposal in the 2nd round. Everyone before us is going to go after the remaining WR and OT, who will have a 1st round grade in the 2nd round. Add a run of CB/S (D) in the begining of the 2nd, RBs, IOL.

I think we will pass though, value probably won't be there compared to other players/positions available.

Oviedo

02-13-2020, 12:12 PM

I really think that we will have the #1 TE on the board at our disposal in the 2nd round. Everyone before us is going to go after the remaining WR and OT, who will have a 1st round grade in the 2nd round. Add a run of CB/S (D) in the begining of the 2nd, RBs, IOL.

I think we will pass though, value probably won't be there compared to other players/positions available.

I still think our 2nd Round pick will be an Offensive Lineman (need to replace Finney and build for future) or Defensive Lineman (Hargrave replacement plus Tuitt injury insurance). TE will be available one or two rounds later.

Oviedo

02-13-2020, 12:19 PM

Buzz

02-13-2020, 09:22 PM

Word is that the Colts have no interest in resigning Eric Ebron because he shut himself down due to an ankle injury knowing he was an upcoming FA. I liked him coming out of college and still like what he offers.

He's likely going to be asking north of 7 million/year ... too rich for the Steelers' blood with current money situation.

whatever

02-13-2020, 10:04 PM

He's likely going to be asking north of 7 million/year ... too rich for the Steelers' blood with current money situation.

Yup. Gotta go with our scrubs and a draft pick for a year or two.

hawaiiansteel

02-14-2020, 03:32 PM

Steelers 2020 Free Agent Market Watch: The Tight Ends

BTSC takes a look at the top free agents at each position whether or not they are in the Steelers price range. Here are the Tight Ends.

By Bryan Anthony Davis
Feb 14, 2020

Disclaimer: The author realizes that the team is burning in Salary Cap Hell and can’t pony up much money for free agents. However, you never know what they have planned and it’s the author’s responsibility to highlight the free agent options. It’s like the lyric in The Rolling Stones song, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”... But if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

The Steelers have am uncertain situation when it comes to the position of tight end. Nick Vannett is a free agent, Zach Gentry was drafted as a project and didn’t contribute his rookie year and Vance McDonald did not perform well last year and is frequently injured. Does a Ben Roethlisberger return mean a better showing by the Vanimal or has that ship sailed? Do they draft one? Do they try to drum up money to bring in one through free agency? As unlikey as the prospect is, Kevin Colbert could get lucky under the couch cushions. Here the list of available free agents should the Steelers find themselves able to shop come March.

Austin Hooper - Atlanta Falcons
2019 Receiving - 13 games, 75 receptions, 787 yards, 6 touchdowns

Hooper is definitely the prize of the free agent pool as far as the TE position goes. The second-leading receiver last year for the pass-happy Falcons, The 6’4” and 254-pound Hooper is also a vey sure-handed receiver that has improved every year since having been drafted in the third round out of Stanford in 2016.

Hunter Henry - Los Angeles Chargers
2019 Receiving - 12 games, 55 receptions, 652 yards, 5 touchdowns

The last time the Steelers landed a Tight End in free agency from the Chargers, it was an injury disaster. But Ladarius Green didn’t have as many red health flags as Hunter Henry. Henry could be in the Kelce/Kittle conversation, but his missing 20 games the previous two seasons is a huge concern. A team is going to either have to take a huge leap of faith and hope he stays football healthy or get him at a bargain price.

Blake Jarwin - Dallas Cowboys
2019 Receiving - 16 games, 31 receptions, 365 yards, 3 touchdowns

Jarwin could be a fabulous, free agent bargain. At 26, he has exhibited plenty signs of promise and would fit it nicely in Pittsburgh, should they find the funds. The stats shouldn’t be a huge concern, as Jarwin split time with Jason Witten in 2020. The 2017 Undrafted Free Agent started seven games last year, but sources around the league think he can be a full-time starter in the NFL.

Eric Ebron - Indianapolis Colts
2019 Receiving - 11 games, 31 receptions, 375 yards, 3 touchdown

Ebron had a phenomenal 2018, but his career has been largely one of disappointment and underachievement. He’s high on athletic talent, but has been suspect with route-running and dropped balls over the course of his career with Detroit and Indy. However, being paired with another veteran QB (13 TDs with Luck in ‘18) like Roethlisberger could greatly improve his fortune and productivity. He may come on the cheap as well.

Greg Olsen - Carolina Panthers
2019 Receiving - 14 games, 52 receptions, 597 yards, 2 touchdowns

Olsen is no longer what he once was in this league. However, he was very productive at age 34 last year. A team on the precipice of a championship should consider Olsen. He has the skill and the experience to help deliver a ring.

Other Notable Free Agent Tight Ends
Jacob Hollister - Seattle Seahawks (RFA)

Nick Vannett - Pittsburgh Steelers

Tyler Eifert - Cincinnati Bengals

Charles Clay - Arizona Cardinals

Dan Arnold - Arizona Cardinals (RFA)

Ricky Seals-Jones - Cleveland Browns (RFA)

Nick O’Leary - Jacksonville Jaguars

Seth DeValve - Jacksonville Jaguars

Blake Bell - Kansas City Chiefs

Luke Willson - Seattle Seahawks

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/2/14/21135007/steelers-2020-free-agent-market-watch-the-tight-ends-hunter-henry-austin-hooper-eric-ebron-nfl-news

Steel Maniac

02-20-2020, 07:45 PM

TE Zach Gentry: ‘I Am Going To Be In The Weight Room All Offseason Working’

ByDave BryanPosted on February 20, 2020 at 6:34 pm

Pittsburgh Steelers tight end Zach Gentry didn’t play much during his 2019 rookie season as the fifth-round draft pick out of Michigan logged just under 50 total offensive snaps in the four games that he dressed and played in. Because of his limited usage, Gentry, a college quarterback-turned-tight end, now enters the 2020 league year as perhaps one of the biggest offensive carryover unknowns on the roster.

Gentry obviously isn’t taking for granted that he’s a lock to make the 2020 Steelers roster and that’s being demonstrated by him staying close to Pittsburgh this offseason in an effort to work on the little things he needs to improve on of which one of them is his overall strength.

“I am going to be in the weight room all offseason working,” said Gentry, according to a recent interview with him posted on steelers.com. “I want to make sure I continue to get stronger. I want to work on flexibility to make sure I can bend my hips and stay lower to the ground.

“It’s a no brainer for me to stay here. I can work with the conditioning staff, I can have the training staff here, everything I need I have here. I don’t see a point in leaving. It’s a new home so I am glad I am staying here.”

Gentry getting stronger this offseason and becoming a better blocker is a must as those deficiencies in his overall game showed up quite easily in his limited offensive snaps played during his 2019 rookie season and especially earlier in the season as I highlighted in the previous post linked to above.

While Gentry might not have had a lot of in-game opportunities to show his overall in-season development during the second half of his rookie year, he indicated in his recent interview with the Steelers official website that he did learn a lot from his teammates and especially from veteran tight end Vance McDonald.

“He helped me out a ton. I call him dad,” said Gentry of McDonald. “He knows so much, knows the offense, he knows about the day to day life. I really appreciate him.

“With him it was small things you might not notice, like on the first step of a cutoff block making sure you get off really quick, something you might not think about. Little things that resonated in my mind, made me a better ball player and I am really thankful for that.”

Currently, McDonald and Gentry are the only two tight ends that ended the 2019 season on the Steelers 53-man roster that are under contract for the 2020 season. We’ll know within a month if McDonald’s 2020 option will indeed be picked up. We’ll also know within a month and a half if the other tight end that ended the 2019 season on the Steelers 53-man roster, Nick Vannett, will be back in the fold to compete for a roster spot in training camp later this summer.

While Gentry is a lock to make it to training camp this summer, he could have yet another young tight end to compete against while at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe if the team spends one of their currently scheduled six draft picks on one like many of us expect them to do. Even if that happens, that prospective young tight end will have to go through what Gentry went through a year ago and that process is one the second-year tight end is glad he doesn’t have to go through this offseason.

“A rookie year is challenging, but it’s what we all signed up for,” said Gentry. “It’s a lot going from the last season of college football, right into combine training, then preparing for the NFL Draft and the season. You have a 20-game season with the preseason. It’s challenging but rewarding at the same time.

“I am excited for this offseason. I can’t wait to work and not have to worry about a hand-held time in the 40-yard dash. I can’t wait to know what is in front of me. I can’t wait for my second season to come and know what I need to work on and just go for it.”

After the Steelers drafted Gentry last year, I did a full contextualization of all his 2018 pass targets at Michigan and the link to that post is below. Gentry posted some fine numbers in his 2018 season at Michigan as the underclassman’s average target depth was just under 10 yards at 9.96 yards. The average depth of Gentry’s 32 receptions in 2018 was 11.09 yards, which is a very strong number. Gentry also averaged 3.53 yards after the catch in 2018, another healthy number.

Could the Steelers be more optimistic about Gentry than most of us on the outside are? We’ll see sooner rather than later as we’ll have our answer to that question right after the 2020 NFL Draft has concluded in late April. In the meantime, however, Gentry is planning on controlling what he can control and that’s him working on getting better this offseason in his attempt to make the 53-man roster.

“It’s a numbers game,” Gentry said. “At the end of the day it is what it is. I am setting myself up to be more of a role and a factor next season.”

steeler_george

02-21-2020, 06:21 AM

I am starting to think that our TE in 2020 will be the same!

And I hate the thought of McDonald being our #1 TE again.

Colbert sounded like he endorses McDonald, who is a cheaper and just as good option compared to the FA TEs. He also endorsed the trade for Vanett, who we gave up a 5th for him. You don't really trade picks for rent a players. And sounds like they had talks or were interested in acquiring him for a while.

Lacking FA money, using the draft is the best way to improve. I think those resources ( only 6 draft picks, 1 in top 100) are better used in adding:

2 play makers ( WR/RB)
2 OL ( Tackle and IOL)
2 on D ( need depth every where excpet CB, and need a NT)

Steel Maniac

02-21-2020, 09:51 AM

That’s why I think all this talk about taking a TE in the draft in the 2nd or 3rd rounds is really just wishful thinking.

It’s not that high on Colbert’s priority list.

Steel Maniac

02-21-2020, 01:20 PM

NFL.com Analyst Tabs TE Hunter Henry As Best Free Agent Fit For Steelers
ByDave BryanPosted on February 20, 2020 at 7:48 pm

NFL free agency officially begins on Wednesday, March 18 and already there’s heavy speculation and suggestions floating around about every NFL team and which free agents each should or likely will have interest in. On Thursday, Marc Sessler of NFL.com joined the free agency frenzy fray by suggesting one free agent fit for each AFC team. Sessler suggested Los Angeles Chargers tight end Hunter Henry for the Pittsburgh Steelers and below is his reasoning for doing so.

With Ben Roethlisberger teed up for a healthy return, the Steelers must focus on surrounding their big-bodied flinger with new weapons. Henry has yet to experience a true breakout campaign, but the 6-foot-5, 250-pound target has produced moments suggesting a lofty ceiling. One year removed from a season-ending ACL tear, Henry spent 2019 competing for touches in a Bolts offense boasting two 1,000-yard pass catchers in Keenan Allen and Mike Williams and nearly a third in Austin Ekeler. We haven’t seen Henry in a genuine feature role. He would fit with plenty of clubs, but the Steelers could use an X-factor at the position to brighten the final chapters of Big Ben’s NFL journey.

On paper and in theory, Henry would indeed be a great fit for the Steelers. Even so, the Arkansas product and former second-round draft pick figures to be this year’s free agent prize at the tight end position, assuming the Chargers don’t place the franchise tag on him by the early March deadline. The Chargers have plenty of salary cap space and not many options at tight end so it’s hard to see them letting Henry walk off uncontested via free agency.

Even if Henry is allowed to test free agency, he’s likely to command a contract that averages more than $9 million a season and that would be too rich for the salary cap-strapped Steelers in the middle of March. Henry would likely have plenty of other suitors bidding for his services as well and at least one of those several teams would likely be willing to guarantee more of his next contract than the Steelers would want to.

If the Steelers are to add another tight end to their offseason roster in the coming months, such a player would likely come via the 2020 NFL Draft. Currently, the Steelers have tight ends Vance McDonald, Zach Gentry, Christian Scotland-Williamson and Kevin Rader all under contract for the 2020 season. The team also seems interested in possibly re-signing tight end Nick Vannett back for cheap in the coming month as well.

In future free agent projections for the Steelers, Sessler needs to lower his target quite a bit. He needs to think cheap and well under the radar. Any suggestion that even remotely resembles a higher profile player is just a waste of internet ink and keyboard typing on his part.

Our very own Alex Kozora will post a list of more realistic 2020 free agent targets for Steelers in the very near future so be on the lookout for that article.

hawaiiansteel

02-21-2020, 10:34 PM

Steelers unlikely to pick up Vance McDonald's 2020 option, but restructured deal could keep him in Pittsburgh

McDonald has been the Steelers' starting tight end since 2017

by Bryan DeArdo

The Steelers have several personnel decisions they will have to make ahead of the start of the league's new year on March 18. Among the team's personnel decisions includes tight end Vance McDonald, whose club option would count $7,127,500 against Pittsburgh's 2020 salary cap.

Given their current salary cap situation (Pittsburgh's current cap space is about $1.58 million, according to Over The Cap), CBS Sports NFL insider Jason La Canfora told 93.7 The Fan on Friday that he does not expect McDonald to be back in Pittsburgh in 2020 at his current cap hit. This means that, unless the Steelers can agree to a restructured deal, the tight end is expected to become a free agent.

While McDonald has been the team's most productive tight end since coming to Pittsburgh (via a trade with San Francisco) just before the start of the 2017 season, he will be turning 30 this season and is coming off a year that saw him catch just 38 passes for 273 yards and three touchdowns. In defense of McDonald, he did not have the luxury of playing with Ben Roethlisberger last season; the Steelers' offense, as a whole, saw a significant decline in production with Big Ben out due to an elbow injury.

After injuries marred his first season in Pittsburgh, McDonald put up career numbers in 2018, catching 60 of 72 targets for 610 yards and four touchdowns. His biggest play of the year took place in Pittsburgh's Week 3 win over Tampa Bay, as his 76-yard touchdown catch -- that included a nasty stiff-arm of defensive back Chris Conte -- propelled the Steelers to their first victory of the season.

The 55th overall pick in the 2013 draft, McDonald has started in 35 of his 39 games with the Steelers. Last season, he started over rookie Zach Gentry (a fifth-round pick out of Michigan) and four-year veteran Nick Vannett, who was acquired during an in-season trade with Seattle. Vannett, who made six starts in 13 games with the Steelers in 2019, is an unrestricted free agent who earlier this offseason stated that he hopes to resign with the Steelers this offseason.

Pittsburgh may elect to spend their first pick in the draft -- the 50th overall pick -- on the tight end position. Two possible options for the Steelers are Purdue's Brycen Hopkins and Vanderbilt's Jared Pinkney. Hopkins, the 48th-best player in CBS Sports' 2020 prospect rankings, caught 61 passes for 830 yards and seven touchdowns last season. Pinkney, the 56th-ranked player on CBS' prospect rankings, caught 114 passes and 14 touchdowns during his time with the Commodores.

While McDonald's contract situation is surely a priority for the Steelers, Pittsburgh's top personnel priority over the next month is outside linebacker Bud Dupree, the team's 2015 first-round pick who is coming off of a career year that saw him record 11.5 sacks with four forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries. The Steelers are expected to franchise tag Dupree if the two sides cannot come to terms on a longterm contract by March 10, the deadline for NFL teams to tag players. Dupree's franchise tag would cost the Steelers about $16.26 million for the 2020 season.

Pittsburgh is also expected to extend 2017 first-round pick T.J. Watt's contract this offseason. Watt, a two-time Pro Bowl selection, was named All-Pro in 2019 after recording 14.5 sacks while leading the league with eight forced fumbles.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-unlikely-to-pick-up-vance-mcdonalds-2020-option-but-restructured-deal-could-keep-him-in-pittsburgh/

Steel Maniac

02-25-2020, 12:40 PM

Oviedo

02-25-2020, 12:43 PM

Looking more and more like we are only going to get a couple of things adequately addressed through the draft and free agency. Notice I used he word adequately.

Did you expect a miracle or were you unaware of our cap situation? Not sure why anyone expected us to be making moves other to retain our own. Been pretty obvious for months.

Steel Maniac

02-25-2020, 03:31 PM

Did you expect a miracle or were you unaware of our cap situation? Not sure why anyone expected us to be making moves other to retain our own. Been pretty obvious for months.

Oh, I was aware. But I thought we'd be able to fix 3 or 4 areas still. Especially freeing up some cap space.

hawaiiansteel

02-25-2020, 03:36 PM

Oh, I was aware. But I thought we'd be able to fix 3 or 4 areas still. Especially freeing up some cap space.

you don't even know what you don't know...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

02-25-2020, 06:00 PM

Did you expect a miracle or were you unaware of our cap situation? Not sure why anyone expected us to be making moves other to retain our own. Been pretty obvious for months.

If....a new CBA is signed before the FA period is too far gone and
If....the 30% rule is no longer applied

Then the Steelers can create as much cap space as they would need in order to be players in FA.
Not saying they will (history suggests they won't but with the end of the Ben era near they have made a few bold moves lately), but they will be able to.

hawaiiansteel

02-26-2020, 02:56 PM

Pittsburgh Steelers

Tight end. The Steelers' tight ends were woefully underutilized and ineffective last season. Much of that is injury-related, with Vance McDonald missing two games and the quarterback carousel failing to find a consistent rhythm with either McDonald or Nick Vannett. With McDonald as a potential cap casualty and Vannett as an unrestricted free agent, the Steelers best option to fortify the group is through the draft, and if the team opts to choose one with their first selection in the second round, they should have their pick of the tight ends in the 2020 class. More positions to watch: RB, G, DT, WR -- Brooke Pryor

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/story/_/id/28745713/2020-nfl-combine-draft-needs-prospects-target-all-32-nfl-teams

whatever

02-26-2020, 03:13 PM

Looking more and more like we are only going to get a couple of things adequately addressed through the draft and free agency. Notice I used he word adequately.

As long as it gets us to .500, I'm happy.

steeler_george

02-27-2020, 09:12 AM

I read on a twitter thread, possible possition switches in the combine. ( the players have to participate in those drills)

WR>TE Claypool, ND

Kind of intresting that he a BIG WR and asked to play TE... could be an interesting selection if he is there at the comp pick or in the 4th. He contribute as the 4th-5th WR while learning the TE postion.

Steel Maniac

02-27-2020, 11:04 AM

As long as it gets us to .500, I'm happy.

Hahahahahaha...you and a lot of fans.

hawaiiansteel

02-27-2020, 01:43 PM

Hahahahahaha...you and a lot of fans.

yeah, non-Steelers fans.

did you fall on your head as a child?

Oviedo

02-27-2020, 01:58 PM

yeah, non-Steelers fans.

did you fall on your head as a child?

TROLLS who just want to get attention and cause chaos!!!!!!!

steeler_george

02-27-2020, 05:34 PM

ALbert 0 just ran the fastest 40.9 and 4.50

Kittle, Fant numbers...

whatever

02-27-2020, 05:41 PM

TROLLS who just want to get attention and cause chaos!!!!!!!

Lol....thanks for playing.

hawaiiansteel

02-28-2020, 01:22 AM

Winner: Albert Okwuegbunam

This is not a jaw-dropping tight end class, but the Missouri tight end provided the first eye-opening moment with a 4.49 in the 40. That is the fourth-fastest time by a tight end since 2003, and it's in elite company with Vernon Davis, who ran a 4.38 in 2006 and became the No. 6 pick in that year's draft. Okwuegbunam's production for the Tigers declined with each season after a breakout freshman year in which he caught 11 touchdowns. He had 23 career TDs on just 98 catches, though, and an impressive workout should vault him up draft boards.

Losers: Harrison Bryant and Adam Trautman

These sleepers did not take advantage of the spotlight. Bryant won the Mackey Award last year as the nation's top tight end after wrapping a fantastic career with Florida Atlantic. He ran a 4.73 in the 40 and managed 13 in the bench press, totals that might cause teams to hesitate. Trautman has the reputation of being a hidden gem after catching 23 touchdowns at FCS Dayton the last two seasons, but he ran a 4.8 in the 40 and hit 18 on the bench press. He did have a 6.78 in the three-cone drill, which was the best among tight ends. Both prospects might have to wait a little longer than expected on draft night.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2020-winners-losers/pgwsi7z45ewe1r3go97x5ies1

Iron City Inc.

02-28-2020, 11:53 AM

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

02-28-2020, 04:51 PM

I would add Claypool to the winners list. Now I know he wants to be a wr n not a TE but many TE's these days are not in line ( Y) anyway so wow this guy was impressive. At his size he can easily dig out safeties and wall off backers so his versatility and miss match problems could be a nightmare for any D.

I was wondering what the rules are regarding motioning someone on and off the line. Can Claypool be lined up at TE and then motion outside? Or at WR and motioned to the end of the line? A hybrid TE/WR?

Iron City Inc.

02-28-2020, 06:19 PM

I was wondering what the rules are regarding motioning someone on and off the line. Can Claypool be lined up at TE and then motion outside? Or at WR and motioned to the end of the line? A hybrid TE/WR?

Yes just formation changes may require movement up to the los or off the los. Example if your in say Pro Open I and your motioning to straight Pro Set the slot receiver motions to the Y where he is not offset as he was in the Pro Open and the Z now needs to offset to have the legal formation.
Here is a classic example of the many options a 6 4 240 sub 4.5 with a 40+ vertical guy creates if you motion him. To me the options are match up advantages all over the board. When D's have to make split decisions in coverage with a guy that big n fast mistakes are sometimes made n when that happens big plays are made.

dreegking

02-28-2020, 08:11 PM

Claypool is def the choice as a hybrid which is what the Steelers should do. There's no one worthy of a second round if they hope to find a starter. SO Claypool it is. He can play inside and I suspect the Steelers will also go a lot more at FB if health prevails. This is enough in today's game with sub packages and small and quicker D. There nothing wrong with the Canadian Claypool kid at all. The dude is a stud. JuJu esque but bigger. If he falls after slowly rising, he is a great snag. I doubt he falls that far though. Im thinking early second round actually.

I have a feeling round two is a DT for the Steelers..

steeler_george

02-29-2020, 10:04 AM

Iron City Inc.

02-29-2020, 12:09 PM

I am also starting to think there is a possibility we go DT or ILB ( Barron/Vance or both replacement) or an unexpected pick.

Concerning Claypool, he killed it, but how was his overall tape?

His tape is good. Third round good perhaps prior to combine. Did he do enough to move up to 2nd IDK but with Kittle and Kelsey and Ertz doing their thing teams that do not have that are looking for that. These guys are evolving to big receivers first and blockers second so a guy like Claypool will be coveted by many.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

02-29-2020, 12:20 PM

His tape is good. Third round good perhaps prior to combine. Did he do enough to move up to 2nd IDK but with Kittle and Kelsey and Ertz doing their thing teams that do not have that are looking for that. These guys are evolving to big receivers first and blockers second so a guy like Claypool will be coveted by many.

I wonder where his value lies. Is there more value in a decent WR or a top TE? Franchise tag values (top 5 paid at position) are $18M+ for a WR and $10M+ for a TE. If we think he is a potential top TE, how far up the ladder is he at WR? Is he a potential WR1? or is he a 2-3? Or is there current value as the hybrid TE/WR who lines up as both?

Iron City Inc.

02-29-2020, 01:29 PM

Based on the $ numbers you just pointed out we know why he wants to be considered a wr!

hawaiiansteel

02-29-2020, 02:33 PM

Pavelle: Thoughts On A Poor 2020 TE Class

By Scott Pavelle
Posted on February 28, 2020

This isn’t going to be the cheeriest article. Alas.

We began the draft process saying two things. First, tight end was the closest thing to a need on Pittsburgh’s roster; and second, that wasn’t good news because the 2020 TE class looked historically bad. A number of prospects seemed to offer developmental traits worthy of a Day 3 draft pick, but even the best would not begin to offer value until Round 3, let alone at the mid-2nd pick held by Pittsburgh.

Hopes crept up a bit as the process inched forward. Junior Cole Kmet declared early, and immediately became the top prospect on the board. Bryce Hopkins displayed a better attitude (in interviews) toward blocking than his film suggested, and we were constantly reassured that he couldn’t be as bad as he looked because his father had been a pro bowl offensive lineman. Adam Trautman appeared out of the small school mist to give us a new name, and then looked like a peer of the big boys at the Senior Bowl. A few other prospects revealed some glimmers of hope too. Maybe one of these could test well enough to be worth serious consideration at #47 overall?

Then came the Combine. Alas. Because it basically reinforced the initial conclusion. Developmental traits abound but there are no complete packages from the athletic point of view.

Kmet has much better than expected size and really looks the part, but he really is “just” a good athlete on the NFL scale and nothing worth writing home about.

Albert Okwuegbunam ran like the wind in a straight line, but we almost expected that from his film. The issue there is that he blocked (in college) like the wind too.

Trautman looks good but his traits aren’t special enough to raise any eyebrows, and the small school stigma exists for a reason.

Harrison Bryant has T-rex arms.

None of the good blockers turned out to have startling athletic skills.

Etc.

The class may not be historically bad, but it certainly isn’t good. There are maybe eight to ten prospects who should, with coaching, develop into legitimate TE2’s. Two to five of those might somehow grow into TE1 status. But none of them project as special talents, and all of them project as 3-4 year projects.

We fans need to focus most of all on that time frame.

Everyone knows that TE’s tend to develop slowly in any event. That is a problem inherent in the position, because TE’s are asked to do so many things. Consider the benefits offered by a superior TE1. He tilts the field because he is a mismatch on every play. Try to cover a guy like George Kittle with a Linebacker or a Safety big enough to counter his strength, and Kittle will catch passes all day long. Especially in crucial 3rd-down situations. Assign a coverage-oriented Safety or a big Corner toward Kittle, and he will block the poor slob into next week, leaving truck-sized holes for his running backs. Catch 22. Premier TE’s make every defensive alignment wrong in some way or the other.

The flip side is that poor TE’s make every defensive move seem stronger. Players like Pittsburgh’s own Terrell Edmunds, Mark Barron, and Devin Bush get draft projections like “TE eraser” because they are big enough to stay in the game on running plays, fast enough to blanket average opponents in coverage, and athletic enough to make plays no matter how the TE tries to prevent it. The mismatch issue can run in both directions!

All three of those positions (TE, ILB, and Safety) take extra time to develop precisely because they have so many disparate duties to learn. For whatever reason, TE’s tend to mature slowest of all. Even the best prospects, like last year’s TE T.J. Hockenson, tend to disappear in their rookie seasons. They start to contribute in Year 2, hit their stride in Years 3-4, and hit their peaks in years 5-10. If I may be permitted to stereotype badly and to merge individuals into a mass, average TE prospect typically take a year longer and develop to a lower ceiling. That projection is the basis for how nerds like me will grade them on Big Boards. The long development time also explains why Tight Ends have traditionally been undervalued compared to many other positions.

This year’s group is not going to produce any rookie-year contributors. That much is clear. Nor, subject to the exception who proves the rule, any players who will help their team significantly in the 2021/22 season. The best of them are likely to mature into starters for 2022 and onwards, with none of them maturing into Kittlesque, field tilting stars.

Are you a Pittsburgh Steelers fan who has every voiced a concern about “Big Ben’s window?” If so, throw any dreams of a TE pick out the window for the 2020 draft. None of these prospects will really help this team before Roethlisberger’s contract is up. All bets are off if he pulls a Brady and continues to play at a high level into his 40’s, but if that’s the case then your window wasn’t exactly closing to begin with.

Does that mean I want to remove TE’s from the Steelers Big Board? Far from it! I do not believe in windows, and certainly not in windows that can be filled with draft picks! The draft exists to build our team for the long haul, and Tight Ends are an important part of that puzzle. I am just saying that the draft isn’t going to offer any TE who will help in the short term. Only a trade or a free agent signing could help for a short term push.

My concern is simpler and more self serving. How should these prospects be graded on the Board I write for this site? What is the value of a good but not great TE prospect? One who projects as a likely TE2 from his third year on, but could end up being a little better than that? In most years the answer would be a “highest value” in the late 3rd round, with bargain steals beginning in Round 5. Anywhere from HV 3:24 to 5:01 using the grading system of our Steelers Big Board and accounting for individual variations.

Question: who in this class do we still believe should grade out any higher? And why do we believe it? That is the debate I think we ought to have in these Comments. For what it’s worth, I would personally give a slight bump to a few prospects who I believe have the upside to become solid-but-not-special TE1’s. Who? We can get to that in the Comments, because I have to acknowledge that my preferences are a matter of taste rather than analysis. What I will say is this: I do not believe that even my favorites are likely to contribute any faster, just that their ceilings are a wee bit higher, and the “bump” is up to a late-2nd or early-3rd grade that would still be a lamentable reach for the pick at #47 overall.

Alas.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/02/pavelle-thoughts-on-poor-2020-te-class/

SteelerMaine83

02-29-2020, 04:07 PM

Yeah, that article pretty much hits it on the head. I don’t see any TE in this class helping us much this year (they are almost TE 2.5–somewhere between Vannett and Gentry). Therefore, I’d be pretty unlikely to go TE early, and I’ll likely keep MacDonald another year because of that reality, despite his cost.

dreegking

02-29-2020, 10:24 PM

Claypool in round 2. Otherwise no.

hawaiiansteel

03-01-2020, 01:10 AM

we’ve had that gigantic British rugby player on the practice squad for about 8 years now, hasn’t he learned how to catch yet?

fordfixer

03-01-2020, 10:28 AM

we’ve had that gigantic British rugby player on the practice squad for about 8 years now, hasn’t he learned how to catch yet?
Can he play Running Back?

Iron City Inc.

03-01-2020, 12:00 PM

we’ve had that gigantic British rugby player on the practice squad for about 8 years now, hasn’t he learned how to catch yet?

Two years and he's Australian but "No" his hands were not where they need to be. Last year at camp to be honest I'm not sure he proved he can block. Christian Scotland Williamson I thought might become a T. Had he not been given the roster exemption because of the international thing he would be gone. However when you are 6'9 and 275 lbs you have to prove you cant play.

hawaiiansteel

03-01-2020, 01:49 PM

Two years and he's Australian but "No" his hands were not where they need to be. Last year at camp to be honest I'm not sure he proved he can block. Christian Scotland Williamson I thought might become a T. Had he not been given the roster exemption because of the international thing he would be gone. However when you are 6'9 and 275 lbs you have to prove you cant play.

actually, he's from England...

Christian Scotland-Williamson

No. 49 – Pittsburgh Steelers
Position: Tight end

Personal information
Born: 5 July 1993 (age 26)
Waltham Forest, England
Height: 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m)
Weight: 274 lb (124 kg)

Career information
High school: Royal Grammar School
(High Wycombe, England)
College: Loughborough (UK)

Christian Scotland-Williamson (born 5 July 1993, in Waltham Forest, England) is an English professional American football tight end for the Pittsburgh Steelers of the National Football League (NFL), and a former rugby union player for the Worcester Warriors.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Scotland-Williamson

Iron City Inc.

03-01-2020, 03:27 PM

England my bad not down under.

Buzz

03-01-2020, 09:24 PM

England my bad not down under.

they all look alike

SteelerMaine83

03-02-2020, 08:36 AM

they all look alike

At 6’9” and 274, I hope not. Damn scary, mate!

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

03-02-2020, 04:15 PM

At 6’9” and 274, I hope not. Damn scary, mate!

Dude is so big you can easily read "Scotland-Williamson" on the back of his jersey.

Steel Maniac

03-04-2020, 03:18 PM

DK Pittsburgh Sports' Dale Lolley reports the Steelers "intend" on keeping Vance McDonald in 2020.

McDonald's pending club option is worth $7.127 million against the cap. A fantasy darling for his projected every-down usage heading into the season, the 29-year-old suffered the same fate as the rest of the Steelers' cast in battling through subpar play under center for a total 38/273/3 receiving last year. Only one season removed from a career-high 50/610/4 in 2018, McDonald will undoubtedly fly under the radar as a late-round bounce-back candidate worth chasing in every format.

SOURCE: Dale Lolley on Twitter
Mar 4, 2020, 2:06 PM ET

Eich

03-04-2020, 04:02 PM

Vance is every bit the Ferrari that Ben referred to him as. Great, but often parked in the garage for repairs.

whatever

03-04-2020, 04:37 PM

Vance is every bit the Ferrari that Ben referred to him as. Great, but often parked in the garage for repairs.

Actually, McDonald has only missed 3 games the last 2 years.

steeler_george

03-04-2020, 05:19 PM

Actually, McDonald has only missed 3 games the last 2 years.

I read that too somewhere, kind of shocking.

But I have a feeling it was like injured early in a game, 1) then sat out next game, then returned next game not able to finish, 2) out again.

Miss leading stat that is out like 4 games.

I am just saying...

But I do believe, and agree with Lolley. Vance is staying this year. He is our best option. Who else in FA is better and cost less than 5 million? And as history says, it take time for a rookie TE to develpe and contribute, just look at Hockenson last year, who was suppose to be a once in a life time generation TE.

whatever

03-04-2020, 05:29 PM

I read that too somewhere, kind of shocking.

But I have a feeling it was like injured early in a game, 1) then sat out next game, then returned next game not able to finish, 2) out again.

Miss leading stat that is out like 4 games.

I am just saying...

But I do believe, and agree with Lolley. Vance is staying this year. He is our best option. Who else in FA is better and cost less than 5 million? And as history says, it take time for a rookie TE to develpe and contribute, just look at Hockenson last year, who was suppose to be a once in a life time generation TE.

Crazy how much more time Bell missed than McDonald.

hawaiiansteel

03-04-2020, 05:47 PM

But I do believe, and agree with Lolley. Vance is staying this year. He is our best option. Who else in FA is better and cost less than 5 million? And as history says, it take time for a rookie TE to develpe and contribute, just look at Hockenson last year, who was suppose to be a once in a life time generation TE.

I read that we could free up $2 mil after we pick up his option with a restructure, so it makes sense...

steeler_george

03-04-2020, 06:17 PM

I read that we could free up $2 mil after we pick up his option with a restructure, so it makes sense...

Do you mean have to redo extend his contract, and he get bonus money instead to cover the difference?

I was thinking we should try to do that to Barron as well.

steeler_george

03-04-2020, 06:24 PM

Crazy how much more time Bell missed than McDonald.

The thing about Bell, when he missed games we had legit back up RBs. And AB to make the running game go!

Oviedo

03-04-2020, 07:36 PM

whatever

03-04-2020, 10:13 PM

The thing about Bell, when he missed games we had legit back up RBs. And AB to make the running game go!

1 year we had DeAngelo. All the other years were similar or worse than we have had the last two.
I'm sure AB wouldn't have been much help if Ben wasn't throwing it to him.

SteelerMaine83

03-06-2020, 08:39 AM

Take the "player hate emotion" out of it and it is the smart decision from a competitive standpoint. We really don't have an option on the roster and going after a free agent or counting on a rookie doesn't make sense.

This. Emotion can be a team’s (and businesses) downfall. He is our best option right now at the price. If Kittle or Kelce (a good player that I can’t stand) gets released and we don’t franchise/re-sign Bud then I’ll be thumbs up on getting them on the cheap,lol

feltdizz

03-06-2020, 01:43 PM

The thing about Bell, when he missed games we had legit back up RBs. And AB to make the running game go!

The thing about Bell is when he played he was a game changer. Top 5 at his position.

Not even sure why Bell is part of this conversation. Nah.. lol, I know why.

Anyways.. someone claims Vance only missed 3 games. You know why that stat is shocking? Because it felt like he missed 7 or 8 because he was a ghost on the field.

and I’m sure he missed significant time in games he dressed. There were a few games he didn’t make it past the first quarter or was scratched at halftime.

He isn’t worth 7 mill.

We really can’t find another TE who can catch 40 to 50 balls for 600 yards and 4 TD’s?

sheesh.

feltdizz

03-06-2020, 01:44 PM

This. Emotion can be a team’s (and businesses) downfall. He is our best option right now at the price. If Kittle or Kelce (a good player that I can’t stand) gets released and we don’t franchise/re-sign Bud then I’ll be thumbs up on getting them on the cheap,lol

He isn’t anything special at the price we are paying.

he isn’t even a weapon in our offense with Ben. He’s an afterthought. I would move on from him and it’s not personal.

whatever

03-06-2020, 03:16 PM

The thing about Bell is when he played he was a game changer. Top 5 at his position.

Not even sure why Bell is part of this conversation. Nah.. lol, I know why.

Anyways.. someone claims Vance only missed 3 games. You know why that stat is shocking? Because it felt like he missed 7 or 8 because he was a ghost on the field.

and I’m sure he missed significant time in games he dressed. There were a few games he didn’t make it past the first quarter or was scratched at halftime.

He isn’t worth 7 mill.

We really can’t find another TE who can catch 40 to 50 balls for 600 yards and 4 TD’s?

sheesh.

...so Vance isn't worth 7 million playing without Ben but Bell is worth 15?
Classic.

feltdizz

03-06-2020, 04:11 PM

...so Vance isn't worth 7 million playing without Ben but Bell is worth 15?
Classic.

I used the stats from Vance in 2018 with Ben.

Do you think 50 receptions for 600 yards and 4 TD’s is worth 7 mill a year? That’s 3.5 receptions a game.

Without Ben? Lmao.. Vance had 38 receptions for 280 yards in 14 games and 3 TD’s.. and 2 of those TD’s were in week 2.

That’s worth 7 mill?

Not even sure why Bell is being brought up in comparison but he averaged 20+ touches and 139 yards a game.

so yes, he was worth twice as much as Vance because he had 4 times the production of Vance per game.

and Bell is gone. He has nothing to do with Vance’s production last year and what he is worth to us this year.

wtf are you really arguing?

whatever

03-06-2020, 07:14 PM

I used the stats from Vance in 2018 with Ben.

Do you think 50 receptions for 600 yards and 4 TD’s is worth 7 mill a year? That’s 3.5 receptions a game.

Without Ben? Lmao.. Vance had 38 receptions for 280 yards in 14 games and 3 TD’s.. and 2 of those TD’s were in week 2.

That’s worth 7 mill?

Not even sure why Bell is being brought up in comparison but he averaged 20+ touches and 139 yards a game.

so yes, he was worth twice as much as Vance because he had 4 times the production of Vance per game.

and Bell is gone. He has nothing to do with Vance’s production last year and what he is worth to us this year.

wtf are you really arguing?

Vance was 9-13th in the league 2 years ago.
I'm sure his pay was in line with where he finished statistically.
Bell finished 30 something but was paid top 2-4....
My point?
You trash Vance or Ben for being hurt and not producing but in reality he was hurt less than Bell and produced closer to his salary than Bell.

Steel Maniac

03-06-2020, 08:47 PM

feltdizz

03-06-2020, 09:10 PM

Vance was 9-13th in the league 2 years ago.
I'm sure his pay was in line with where he finished statistically.
Bell finished 30 something but was paid top 2-4....
My point?
You trash Vance or Ben for being hurt and not producing but in reality he was hurt less than Bell and produced closer to his salary than Bell.

Ohhh, your talking about Bell with the Jets? lmao.

nah, in a Steeler uniform Vance hasn’t produced. You can try to twist it anyway you want but Vance hasn’t lived up to his 35 million dollar contract.

all that other stuff you typed is just to distract from the facts.

He’s 3 years into his contract and has 1100 yards receiving. That’s not impressive given his contract.

and it’s hilarious how you guys scream Super Bowl or failure and how we didn’t win anything with certain players but you defend Vance like he is going to get us to the promise land.

feltdizz

03-06-2020, 09:18 PM

Well, you know why. Hahahha. Nothing new about that.

you guys keep bringing up Bell for some odd reason.

I wonder why?

You can’t hide behind him when it comes to these other players on offense who aren’t performing.

He’s gone... the players we have are the ones you need to worry about.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

03-11-2020, 08:02 PM

Getting back to the TE topic...

So many question marks moving forward. Do the Steelers pick up the option on Vance, and can he be consistent with Ben back at QB? Is he worth the extra $6.4M in savings that the team could receive by cutting him? What will happen with FA Vannett?

I want to take a look at two others on the roster. Neither is close to ready to become a starter in this league, but is there a future for either?

We've talked about Christian Scotland-Williamson a few times. We already know he is an athlete, we already know he is huge. Now, after two years of training, is he an NFL football player? Some guys play their entire lives and then take this long after entering the league. Does CSW finally transfer his skills to the gridiron. Here is an article on him that sounds intriguing. I first read it a few days ago, just after he was discussed on here.

https://www.steelers.com/news/scotland-williamson-keeps-charging-forward

The other guy is 2019 draft pick Zach Gentry. Another massive man who is also undergoing a position change from QB. Here is an article from last month. It's funny, as fans we watch the season, it ends, then we pick it up again next year when camp starts. For the players, their season only ends if they choose for it to. I remembered this article from last month and how hungry Gentry sounds and seems to understand how hard he has to work to get there.

https://www.steelers.com/news/a-learning-experience-for-gentry

Is there a future for either of these two guys?