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Eddie Spaghetti
03-10-2019, 05:27 PM
it seems like the usual apologists want to throw up their hands and say what could he do as it relates to the head coach. it seems like they want to pretend this happened in a vacuum when it's obviously been brewing for some time

doesn't managing players and their egos fall under the realm of head coaching duties?

watching a generational talent like AB, albeit an a$$hole walk away for peanuts, reflects poorly on him and Colbert as well. somebody should have seen the need to get out in front of this thing before it mushroomed into the Chernobyl we see today

if his seat wasn't warm before it should be pretty damn hot right now. he gets paid to steer the ship and it looks like a wreck right about now

Buzz
03-10-2019, 05:32 PM
it seems like the usual apologists want to throw up their hands and say what could he do as it relates to the head coach. it seems like they want to pretend this happened in a vacuum when it's obviously been brewing for some time

doesn't managing players and their egos fall under the realm of head coaching duties?

watching a generational talent like AB, albeit an a$$hole walk away for peanuts, reflects poorly on him and Colbert as well. somebody should have seen the need to get out in front of this thing before it mushroomed into the Chernobyl we see today

if his seat wasn't warm before it should be pretty damn hot right now. he gets paid to steer the ship and it looks like a wreck right about now

Agreed.

Knowing what a problem AB was becoming, Tomlin and Colbert should never have given him the big extension 2 years ago.

Steel Maniac
03-10-2019, 05:35 PM
it seems like the usual apologists want to throw up their hands and say what could he do as it relates to the head coach. it seems like they want to pretend this happened in a vacuum when it's obviously been brewing for some time

doesn't managing players and their egos fall under the realm of head coaching duties?

watching a generational talent like AB, albeit an a$$hole walk away for peanuts, reflects poorly on him and Colbert as well. somebody should have seen the need to get out in front of this thing before it mushroomed into the Chernobyl we see today

if his seat wasn't warm before it should be pretty damn hot right now. he gets paid to steer the ship and it looks like a wreck right about now

Of course. If Tomlin killed someone in the middle of Pittsburgh with the gun in his hand, they’d say he didn’t do it. No surprise.

squidkid
03-10-2019, 06:41 PM
You are assuming Rooney cares about winning. He seemed pretty impressed that we almost made the playoffs.

pittpete
03-10-2019, 06:43 PM
Im no Tomlin supporter and i'm not a Tomlin hater but Tomlin is definitely on a short leash.
Lets see what happens this year.
It may just be his last coaching the Steelers.

SS Laser
03-10-2019, 07:00 PM
Both of these players want Guaranteed money or there not playing.
Steelers did screw this up restructuring AB's deal to keep him happy. After a 13-3 season I believe with out looking it up. Plan has been to keep him happy enough to make a run at the Super Bowl.
The AB pattern was fine as long as he had guaranteed money.
Thats all that matters to these 2 former players.
I am glad both are former players at this point.
The locker room problem was AB as I see it. Not sure what Tomlin could do? Soon as Tomlin sits him it all blows up.
If that did not happen and they made the playoffs then lost let's say. AB would have been looking for new money from the Steelers again. But I think he knew they would not do that all season. Hence the trouble all season.

pittpete
03-10-2019, 07:01 PM
Funny how $$$ became a problem once OBJ got his....
Coincidence???

SS Laser
03-10-2019, 07:05 PM
Funny how $$$ became a problem once OBJ got his....
Coincidence???
AB also stood by Bell. Should have seen the writing on the wall last off season.

phillyesq
03-10-2019, 07:26 PM
I think Tomlin has many flaws, but I don't think this is a Tomlin issue. I think AB wanted more money, his agent told him this was how to go about doing it, and their plan worked perfectly. I don't believe for a minute that this was about ego or antyhing else. It was purely about money.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-10-2019, 07:36 PM
I think Tomlin has many flaws, but I don't think this is a Tomlin issue. I think AB wanted more money, his agent told him this was how to go about doing it, and their plan worked perfectly. I don't believe for a minute that this was about ego or antyhing else. It was purely about money.

I guess I can hear that argument up to a point

but also believe that someone at some point should have gotten ben/AB and whoever else into a room and tried to iron some things out

for being lauded as a players coach, it sure seems like tomlin lacks respect from his most visible players

squidkid
03-10-2019, 07:50 PM
I think Tomlin has many flaws, but I don't think this is a Tomlin issue. I think AB wanted more money, his agent told him this was how to go about doing it, and their plan worked perfectly. I don't believe for a minute that this was about ego or antyhing else. It was purely about money.

I want some one to ask Tomlin why he allowed AB to stay off grounds while the rest had to stay in dorms,

Terrapin
03-10-2019, 07:54 PM
I'd still love someone to answer the simple question of 'what exactly is Tomlin good at'?

He obviously has no respect from his players, so he's not a 'players coach'.
His game management speaks for itself
His drafting is atrocious
His defenses have been laughable, especially once Cowhers players left

Aside from having some cool quips, what exactly are his strengths?

flippy
03-10-2019, 08:00 PM
Thereís been problems with the Steelers for a while. Someone is to blame. Itís hard to know if itís Tomlin, Colbert, or Rooney that deserves most of the blame.

We we can speculate, but itís really unknowable.

IMHO, Colbert has the most egg on his face for this one based on all of his comments to the media.

hawaiiansteel
03-10-2019, 08:05 PM
I'd still love someone to answer the simple question of 'what exactly is Tomlin good at'?

He obviously has no respect from his players, so he's not a 'players coach'.
His game management speaks for itself
His drafting is atrocious
His defenses have been laughable, especially once Cowhers players left

Aside from having some cool quips, what exactly are his strengths?

he's never had a losing season :stirpot

squidkid
03-10-2019, 08:11 PM
he's never had a losing season :stirpot

And plenty of people are satisfied with that. Unfortunately, our owner is one of them

Steelwolf
03-10-2019, 08:11 PM
Colbert looked weak in the AB trade....crazy to think the players are turning it back onto the organization. I'll be surprised if we sign a big name FA

Terrapin
03-10-2019, 08:15 PM
he's never had a losing season :stirpot

That is true. I'd bet my house that literally any other coach in the league, in college, and possibly high school would have achieved the same, if not more

brothervad
03-10-2019, 08:18 PM
can it not be all of them

Tomlin - Useful idiots can stay on my team and I will put up with their sh!t until they are worn out.
Colbert - front man for a very badly handled situation including - the 52 kids should listen to Ben comments...you gotta be more polished than that IMO
Rooney - for not laying down the law when he met with AB - you F with us we will Kaizer Soze your A$$...and if you think were kidding, then try us.

Those who refuse to acknowledge that Tomlin played a role in this are in denial. He is the coach and he is closest to the players...if he says I can handle it and then doesn't then he should catch a lionshare of the criticism.

He said he would handle AB after the facebook live fiasco...well he handled it alright...right into the hands of the Oakland Raiders for 3rd & 5th round pick.

But it's not his blame entirely...I don't like Florio but he has an article today that is titled "The Steelers need to slam the door on players talking their way out of town"

And I agree. This has set a bad precedence...and it has to start with a zero tolerance policy from the head coach moving forward.

brothervad

steelz09
03-10-2019, 08:22 PM
If it isn't obvious by now, Tomlin is a total fraud and brings nothing to the table.

- A players coach? Not
- His specialty is the secondary but yet he can't evaluate talent nor help develop players. He can't even get the secondary to be on the same page. The secondary has been the weakest part of the team for years
- His time management sucks
- His challenges are an absolute embarrassment
- His teams have a history of being unprepared especially against lesser competition.
- His teams have a history of having poor discipline
- His "message" has become stale
- Players show him lack of respect with little consequence/discipline

What is he bringing to the table except chest thumping rah rah gestures on the sidelines and the typical post game stupid Tomlinisms / Cliches?

Terrapin
03-10-2019, 08:31 PM
It's also pretty embarrassing that nobody from the organization has uttered a peep about this.

brothervad
03-10-2019, 08:37 PM
Terrapin,

What are they going to say? We got the value we wanted from AB with Oakland?

I think they would be laughed out of the press room.

They lost...they were AB's & Rosenhaus's biotch.

The funny thing is I think it was Ed Bouchetee in a chat that said Rosenhaus and the Steelers FO have a pretty cordial relationship and felt that while he would represent his client, he would not do anything to sabotage the trade efforts.

Now whether I believe that or not isn't really relevant, what will be interesting is to see if the Steelers negotiate with players of his moving forward in FA in the future.

If not, then to me it indicates that the they got intel that he was playing fast and loose with both sides.

Regardless, I think they are going to lie as low as possible on this and probably say "AB is no longer our concern, we are focused on bringing in the right FA signings (but don't expect anything big cause that's not the Steeler way - since it's been working oh so well lately ;) ), and the draft...next question"

brothervad

brothervad

steelz09
03-10-2019, 08:37 PM
It's also pretty embarrassing that nobody from the organization has uttered a peep about this.

A couple reasons come to mind.

1) Arrogance. They want to hang their hat on the "we've only had x amount of head coaches in x amount of years" argument. They need to get off their high horse and acknowledge a change is needed.
2) They don't want to fire Tomlin and contribute to the decline in minority coaches. Not to say, they can't hire another one which is fine but they don't want to ruin the Rooney rule "legacy".

Terrapin
03-10-2019, 08:46 PM
Terrapin,

What are they going to say? We got the value we wanted from AB with Oakland?

I think they would be laughed out of the press room.

They lost...they were AB's & Rosenhaus's biotch.

The funny thing is I think it was Ed Bouchetee in a chat that said Rosenhaus and the Steelers FO have a pretty cordial relationship and felt that while he would represent his client, he would not do anything to sabotage the trade efforts.

Now whether I believe that or not isn't really relevant, what will be interesting is to see if the Steelers negotiate with players of his moving forward in FA in the future.

If not, then to me it indicates that the they got intel that he was playing fast and loose with both sides.

Regardless, I think they are going to lie as low as possible on this and probably say "AB is no longer our concern, we are focused on bringing in the right FA signings (but don't expect anything big cause that's not the Steeler way - since it's been working oh so well lately ;) ), and the draft...next question"

brothervad

brothervad

I know, but usually when a big trade is made, organizations will at least address it. Maybe they should just try telling the truth.

Terrapin
03-10-2019, 08:47 PM
A couple reasons come to mind.

1) Arrogance. They want to hang their hat on the "we've only had x amount of head coaches in x amount of years" argument. They need to get off their high horse and acknowledge a change is needed.
2) They don't want to fire Tomlin and contribute to the decline in minority coaches. Not to say, they can't hire another one which is fine but they don't want to ruin the Rooney rule "legacy".

Well their Rooney Rule cost them a few superbowls.

squidkid
03-10-2019, 09:18 PM
I know, but usually when a big trade is made, organizations will at least address it. Maybe they should just try telling the truth.

The truth, why start now?

NorthCoast
03-10-2019, 09:26 PM
Clearly Tomlin and Colbert are in a can't win situation with some of you.
Fact is AB was happy and the most productive WR on the team up until Juju was drafted.
Colbert did his part by extending AB, accelerating bonus money, and making him the highest paid WR in the league.
Tomlin did his part by treading a light path to keep the guy happy.
Given what we just witnessed at the end of the season, playing hardass with AB earlier in his career probably means he would never have gotten a second contract. Then all we would hear is how Tomlin and Colbert let the best WR in a decade walk.

AB was happy when he was #1 on the team. Lost that to Juju.
He was happy when he was the highest paid. And he lost that title as well.
No coach or GM was going to change that without selling out the entire team.

steelz09
03-10-2019, 09:30 PM
Clearly Tomlin and Colbert are in a can't win situation with some of you.
Fact is AB was happy and the most productive WR on the team up until Juju was drafted.
Colbert did his part by extending AB, accelerating bonus money, and making him the highest paid WR in the league.
Tomlin did his part by treading a light path to keep the guy happy.
Given what we just witnessed at the end of the season, playing hardass with AB earlier in his career probably means he would never have gotten a second contract. Then all we would hear is how Tomlin and Colbert let the best WR in a decade walk.

AB was happy when he was #1 on the team. Lost that to Juju.
He was happy when he was the highest paid. And he lost that title as well.
No coach or GM was going to change that without selling out the entire team.

Sure..if that makes you sleep better at night.

And unicorns do exist.

squidkid
03-10-2019, 09:38 PM
Clearly Tomlin and Colbert are in a can't win situation with some of you.
Fact is AB was happy and the most productive WR on the team up until Juju was drafted.
Colbert did his part by extending AB, accelerating bonus money, and making him the highest paid WR in the league.
Tomlin did his part by treading a light path to keep the guy happy.
Given what we just witnessed at the end of the season, playing hardass with AB earlier in his career probably means he would never have gotten a second contract. Then all we would hear is how Tomlin and Colbert let the best WR in a decade walk.

AB was happy when he was #1 on the team. Lost that to Juju.
He was happy when he was the highest paid. And he lost that title as well.
No coach or GM was going to change that without selling out the entire team.


and they are in an always win situation with some of you

SS Laser
03-10-2019, 10:02 PM
I agree with NC. Though I am not happy with a 3rd and 5th.
Or no playoffs.
Being on the outside I don't see how it could have been better for a guy with no stats but with Ben, 31, looks crazy, has some off the field issues, wants guaranteed money, be highest paid WR.
AB's market dictates his trade value. Most ran away FAST!
Tomlin has warts as does every other coach. Even the super bowl winner.
Tomlin and company found many good to great WR's.
Built a top Oline. Have been trying to rebuild the defense. Had some bad failures but who doesn't? Found some good young players. This draft is big for the whole team!

squidkid
03-10-2019, 10:20 PM
I agree with NC. Though I am not happy with a 3rd and 5th.
Or no playoffs.
Being on the outside I don't see how it could have been better for a guy with no stats but with Ben, 31, looks crazy, has some off the field issues, wants guaranteed money, be highest paid WR.
AB's market dictates his trade value. Most ran away FAST!
Tomlin has warts as does every other coach. Even the super bowl winner.
Tomlin and company found many good to great WR's.
Built a top Oline. Have been trying to rebuild the defense. Had some bad failures but who doesn't? Found some good young players. This draft is big for the whole team!

how many season do we have to hear this?

steelz09
03-10-2019, 10:23 PM
how many season do we have to hear this?

Rinse and repeat.

With Tomlin "leading" this team, just lower your expectations.

SS Laser
03-10-2019, 10:39 PM
I don't know but it can and will get worse. Wait till Ben leaves and some of the Oline.
Every team try's to restock and rebuild. Will there ever be another Troy P? How many games did he win or totally turn the tide? How long for another really good QB? I will enjoy the entertainment even when they hit rock bottom. Not sure what some of you here will do.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 05:11 AM
it seems like the usual apologists want to throw up their hands and say what could he do as it relates to the head coach. it seems like they want to pretend this happened in a vacuum when it's obviously been brewing for some time

doesn't managing players and their egos fall under the realm of head coaching duties?

watching a generational talent like AB, albeit an a$$hole walk away for peanuts, reflects poorly on him and Colbert as well. somebody should have seen the need to get out in front of this thing before it mushroomed into the Chernobyl we see today

if his seat wasn't warm before it should be pretty damn hot right now. he gets paid to steer the ship and it looks like a wreck right about now

There isn't any way to know if Tomlin accelerated or decelerated the AB situation.

The only thing we can really measure is performance.

I think we'll be a worse team next season, but hopefully we'll get some of the bounces we didn't get this year.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 05:13 AM
I guess I can hear that argument up to a point

but also believe that someone at some point should have gotten ben/AB and whoever else into a room and tried to iron some things out

for being lauded as a players coach, it sure seems like tomlin lacks respect from his most visible players

Do you think this was about Ben? About Tomlin? Or about AB wanting a new contract?

I think it's the latter and he would have found an excuse no matter what.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 05:16 AM
I know, but usually when a big trade is made, organizations will at least address it. Maybe they should just try telling the truth.

I think they will do this when the trade is official.

It hasn't happened yet (but I think they won't back out of it)

Eich
03-11-2019, 08:10 AM
I remember a few years ago, hearing about Ben pleading with Tomlin to instill more discipline. Remember these?

https://abc7chicago.com/sports/ben-roethlisberger-calls-out-steelers-on-discipline-accountability/1605659/


https://thebiglead.com/2016/11/14/ben-roethlisberger-asked-mike-tomlin-to-demand-more-urgency-questioned-steelers-team-discipline/

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 08:27 AM
I remember a few years ago, hearing about Ben pleading with Tomlin to instill more discipline. Remember these?

https://abc7chicago.com/sports/ben-roethlisberger-calls-out-steelers-on-discipline-accountability/1605659/


https://thebiglead.com/2016/11/14/ben-roethlisberger-asked-mike-tomlin-to-demand-more-urgency-questioned-steelers-team-discipline/

Stop telling the truth Eich; the Tomlin supporters will attack you.

pittpete
03-11-2019, 08:53 AM
My prediction is when Ben retires, Tomlin will be gone..
It would be make no sense to bring in a new HC at this point.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 08:56 AM
Strong point you made Pete.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 09:55 AM
My prediction is when Ben retires, Tomlin will be gone..
It would be make no sense to bring in a new HC at this point.

You might be right, but if it happens this way, I bet it would be a Tomlin retirement. I could see a long tenured coach not wanting to go through a huge rebuild.

But hopefully their decision on Tomlin isn't contingent on Ben playing.

If the team thinks he can't do it anymore and should go, I think they should fire him


If the team thinks he's good enough to stay, I think they should keep him.

Eich
03-11-2019, 10:03 AM
Stop telling the truth Eich; the Tomlin supporters will attack you.

I am a Tomlin supporter. He's not perfect. But he's as good or better than many of the coaches out there.

I do think that he needs to change his approach to discipline. And I also think that sometimes, a coach needs a new change of scenery.

Tomlin had a LOT to deal with in the 2018 season. Loss of Bell. AB going bezerk. Our kicker forgetting how to kick.

I still think he can keep the team competitive. But I have no problem moving on from him if the front office thinks it's time for fresh blood after this season.

squidkid
03-11-2019, 10:09 AM
My prediction is when Ben retires, Tomlin will be gone..
It would be make no sense to bring in a new HC at this point.

i want tomlin to stay after ben retires. i want him to prove to me that he is this great coach i keep hearing about. show me that it didnt matter that he had a HOF qb his entire time. i want him to win with his players not cowhers.
i will be pissed if he leaves when ben does. of course, tomlin would prove me right if he slinked out.

Eich
03-11-2019, 10:14 AM
i want tomlin to stay after ben retires. i want him to prove to me that he is this great coach i keep hearing about. show me that it didnt matter that he had a HOF qb his entire time. i want him to win with his players not cowhers.
i will be pissed if he leaves when ben does. of course, tomlin would prove me right if he slinked out.

Of course it matters for a coach to have a franchise or HOF QB. What coaches have been as successful as Tomlin without one?

The "Cowher's Players" argument is old and weak. Cowher won with Cowher's players. And Cowher lost with Cowher's players. As has Tomlin.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 10:21 AM
I am a Tomlin supporter. He's not perfect. But he's as good or better than many of the coaches out there.

I do think that he needs to change his approach to discipline. And I also think that sometimes, a coach needs a new change of scenery.

Tomlin had a LOT to deal with in the 2018 season. Loss of Bell. AB going bezerk. Our kicker forgetting how to kick.

I still think he can keep the team competitive. But I have no problem moving on from him if the front office thinks it's time for fresh blood after this season.

Well, I've yet to see a guy, coach change after 12 years. He is what he is at this point.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 10:23 AM
Of course it matters for a coach to have a franchise or HOF QB. What coaches have been as successful as Tomlin without one?

The "Cowher's Players" argument is old and weak. Cowher won with Cowher's players. And Cowher lost with Cowher's players. As has Tomlin.

You just said that it matters for a coach to have a franchise QB and then turn around and say it doesn't in the Cowher/Tomlin comparison? You can't have it both ways.

squidkid
03-11-2019, 10:26 AM
Of course it matters for a coach to have a franchise or HOF QB. What coaches have been as successful as Tomlin without one?

The "Cowher's Players" argument is old and weak. Cowher won with Cowher's players. And Cowher lost with Cowher's players. As has Tomlin.

it may be old but is the truth. tomlin has had 10 years to prove me wrong but he hasnt come close

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 10:35 AM
it may be old but is the truth. tomlin has had 10 years to prove me wrong but he hasnt come close

Exactly. People don't want to hear it but it's been proven true. Tomlin hasn't won with his players/coaches. He hasn't. So people cant argue with it so they say it's a weak argument. It's not even debatable.

And if Ben retired right now, he couldn't win like Cowher won without a franchise QB. Cowher took teams to the AFC championship game/Super Bowl with crap QB's. You think Tomlin could even win 10 games without Ben??? Think again.

But when Cowher got a franchise QB for the first time in his head coaching career, he won a Super Bowl. And weather he wanted Ben or not is irrelevant.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 11:02 AM
Eich, I've got a hypothetical question to ask.

What if the Raiders go on and get Bell and then go and win a Super Bowl next year. If the Raiders win a Super Bowl with Bell , Brown & Bryant, In your opinion, is that an indictment of Tomlin?

SS Laser
03-11-2019, 11:07 AM
Eich, I've got a hypothetical question to ask.

What if the Raiders go on and get Bell and then go and win a Super Bowl next year. If the Raiders win a Super Bowl with Bell , Brown & Bryant, In your opinion, is that an indictment of Tomlin?
Yes and Ben. Oh and the defense.

phillyesq
03-11-2019, 11:42 AM
I guess I can hear that argument up to a point

but also believe that someone at some point should have gotten ben/AB and whoever else into a room and tried to iron some things out

for being lauded as a players coach, it sure seems like tomlin lacks respect from his most visible players

That's a valid criticism and I completely agree. I just don't think Ben and AB ironing things out would have made a difference. I think he wanted more money and was executing the playbook that Rosenhaus first used with TO.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 11:44 AM
We need to do something about Rosenhaus.

phillyesq
03-11-2019, 11:49 AM
We need to do something about Rosenhaus.

Unfortunately, I saw last night that he signed Devin Bush. I'd take him off the draft board. Given the role that Rosenhaus undoubtedly played in this, I'd let it be known that Pittsburgh is closed as a destination to anybody that he represents.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 11:59 AM
Well, I've yet to see a guy, coach change after 12 years. He is what he is at this point.

Didn't you watch the Steelers when Cowher was coach? You must be younger than I thought.

Jooser
03-11-2019, 12:33 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824880-pittsburgh-steelers-wasted-one-of-the-nfls-most-talented-trios-of-all-time


Pittsburgh Steelers Wasted One of the NFL's Most Talented Trios of All Time

Brad Gagnon

The credits are rolling for the Killer B's era in Pittsburgh, and this film has a sad ending.

When the new league year launches Wednesday, superstar Steelers will officially become a member . Not long after that, superstar running back Le'Veon Bell will sign with another team.

The band has broken up, once again leaving 37-year-old future Hall of Fame quarterback Ben Roethlisberger as a solo artist in Allegheny County. Big Ben was there when Brown and Bell arrived in 2010 and 2013, respectively, and he remains there to wave goodbye to them in 2019.

Now, Roethlisberger, the Steelers and their fans are left to dwell on what could have been. The Killer B's wasted a remarkable opportunity to make history, as the Steelers won just three playoff games and made just one AFC Championship Game during the six years Ben, Brown and Bell were together.
Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown formed one of the most talented, accomplished quarterback-running back-wide receiver trios in NFL history, and certainly the most famous one since the Dallas Cowboys "triplets" from the 1990s.
That Troy Aikman/Emmitt Smith/Michael Irvin attack won three Super Bowls in a four-year span. In 10 seasons together, they earned a combined 17 Pro Bowl nods and were first-team All-Pros on a combined five occasions.

In just six seasons together, Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown earned a combined 13 Pro Bowl nods and were first-team All-Pros on a combined six occasions.
In other words, excluding team accolades, an argument could be made that this trio was actually more accomplished than the legendary Dallas grouping.
To find a QB-RB-WR trio with combined individual accolades that trump those belonging to Ben, Bell and Brown, you've gotta jump back nearly another decade for the Joe Montana-Roger Craig-Jerry Rice unit from the 1985-1990 San Francisco 49ers.

That gang also spent exactly six seasons together, it also earned exactly 13 Pro Bowl nods, but Montana, Craig and Rice combined for nine All-Pro honors. They also teamed up for two Super Bowl wins.
Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed made a combined 16 Pro Bowls over a nine-year span, but they combined for only three All-Pro nods. Still, that Buffalo Bills team won a record four consecutive conference title games between 1990 and 1993.


Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Isaac Bruce didn't have the staying power of Ben, Bell and Brown, but that trio still made two Super Bowls (and won one) during their five seasons together with the St. Louis Rams at the turn of the century.
John Elway, Terrell Davis and Rod Smith won two Super Bowls together for the Denver Broncos, while Steve Young, Ricky Watters and Rice won a championship together in San Francisco earlier that decade.
The point, of course, is that almost all of the great triplet-like combos have experienced immense success in the playoff win column.

Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison—who, like Pittsburgh's trio, combined for six All-Pro honors except in a seven-year span—didn't raise a Vince Lombardi Trophy together, but Manning and Harrison did so just a year after James' 2005 departure.


There are no legitimate active comparisons to Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown. The Atlanta Falcons, Devonta Freeman, Julio Jones, Los Angeles Charger and New Orleans Saints, Alvin Kamara, Michael Thomas) are the only other teams in the league that have sent a quarterback, a running back and a wide receiver to multiple Pro Bowls during a shared stretch in the last six years, and not one of those trios has a track record like the one dissolving in Pittsburgh.

In fact, that Ryan-Freeman-Jones trio is the only one in the league with more than half as many combined Pro Bowl nods as Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown.


The jury also remains out on those groupings, and that Falcons trio has at least won an NFC Championship Game.
Meanwhile, we have a verdict on the Killer B's. Their combined individual accomplishments are extraordinary and maybe even unprecedented, depending on the metric being used. But they didn't get it done when it mattered, which is why we'll never reflect on Ben, Bell and Brown the way we look back on Aikman, Smith and Irvin, or Montana, Craig and Rice.

Funnily enough, the largest impediment to top-heavy Pittsburgh's success during the Killer B's era was a counterpart that hasn't possessed anything resembling triplets. Tom Brady has never had an All-Pro running back, and he hasn't had an All-Pro or Pro Bowl wide receiver since 2012. But the Steelers' triplets were in the wrong place at the wrong time simply because they resided in the AFC alongside the most decorated dynasty in NFL history.
Brady's New England Patriots cost the Steelers a first-round bye in 2014 (they lost to the Baltimore Ravens in the AFC Wild Card Round); the Pats beat the Steelers in the only AFC Championship Game of Bell's career in 2016 (it was a 36-17 blowout in Foxborough); and then they cost Pittsburgh the No. 1 seed in 2017 (the Steelers lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars.

There's no telling what kind of damage the Steelers might have done over the last six years if not for the existence of Brady and Bill Belichick.

It also didn't help that Bell and Brown occasionally weren't there for Ben. Not only did Bell sit out the entire 2018 campaign as a result of a contract dispute, but knee injuries also kept him off the field for back-to-back playoff runs in 2014 and 2015, and he was suspended for the first three games of the 2016 season for a violation of the league's substance-abuse policy.

There's no telling what kind of damage the Steelers might have done over the last six years if not for the existence of Brady and Bill Belichick.
It also didn't help that Bell and Brown occasionally weren't there for Ben. Not only did Bell sit out the entire 2018 campaign as a result of a contract dispute, but knee injuries also kept him off the field for back-to-back playoff runs in 2014 and 2015, and he was suspended for the first three games of the 2016 season for a violation of the league's substance-abuse policy.

As this era ends in Pittsburgh, Steelers fans might wonder about an alternate reality in which Bell was more durable and he and Brown were on better terms with management—a parallel universe in which Pittsburgh paid to keep those two happy, and maybe one in which Belichick and Brady retired in 2012.

In that world, the Killer B's are even more historically renowned, the Steelers own more than six Lombardi Trophies and Pittsburgh doesn't owe $21.1 million to rival team's No. 1 receiver.
But hope springs eternal in the cyclical NFL, too, and there just might be a universe in which James Conner becomes better than Bell in the backfield and JuJu Smith-Schuster causes Steelers fans to forget about Brown.

It's possible that's this universe, and that the next film will have a happier ending than the one we just watched.




Geez, maybe it's just me.... but maybe Defense matters when it comes to championships. Maybe Character and Teamwork MATTER? Hello, Mike Tomlin? pffft maybe not....

squidkid
03-11-2019, 12:40 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824880-pittsburgh-steelers-wasted-one-of-the-nfls-most-talented-trios-of-all-time



Geez, maybe it's just me.... but maybe Defense matters when it comes to championships. Maybe Character and Teamwork MATTER? Hello, Mike Tomlin? pffft maybe not....


adding insult to injury.....lol
do you think rooney, colbert or tomlin are taking this public arse pounding to heart?

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 03:10 PM
Didn't you watch the Steelers when Cowher was coach? You must be younger than I thought.

You are hilarious. I was sitting in three Rivers stadium while you were just a twinkle in your dad’s eye. LMFAO!!!

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 04:16 PM
You are hilarious. I was sitting in three Rivers stadium while you were just a twinkle in your dad’s eye. LMFAO!!!

Then you obviously saw a coach who was a perennial underachiever end up winning the Super Bowl.

I really liked Cowher as a coach. I still think he was great at putting together consistently competitive teams. And I think that's super important for success because the playoffs have a significant amount of luck in every game.

Cowher had 4 #1 seeds and in those years
- 1992 Lost in the divisional (I guess you'd consider this success with Noll's players?)
- 1994 Lost in the AFCC (Are these still Noll's players?)
- 2001 Lost in the AFCC (lost at home in the AFCC with his own players, I guess)
- 2004 Lost in the AFCC (see 2001)

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page24


Then won the whole thing in 2005 with a QB he didn't want while trying his best to make sure he never threw the ball too much.

Then went 8 - 8 with his players in 2006 before hanging it up due to be with his ailing wife.

You said a coach can't change after 12 years. Bill Cowher started as the Steelers coach in 1992. He has 12 years of being an amazing regular season coach who just couldn't win that last home field playoff game. Then, he won the SB as a wild card team! You couldn't have picked a better timeline in your post!

You probably would have fired him sometime after he got the #2 seed in 1997 and before he made the playoffs again in 2001.

Then, you probably would have called for his job after he lost on home field in the AFCC as the #1 seed in 2001.

If that didn't do it, you certainly would have been calling for his head after he "blew" another home AFCC home game in 2004.

You'd probably say something like "that guy would never win a SB. His whole legacy was chocking the playoffs". "Sure, he's good in the regular season. Get's lots of #1 seeds. But I don't care about the regular season. I measure success based on what Noll did. Cowher will never win a SB, I guarantee it!"

Of course, he won the next year.

These are all the same kind of things you say about Tomlin.

You also say you don't want to compare to other teams. How about comparing to Cowher's tenure as coach? If you looked at it in the same way you look at Tomlin, you would have absolutely hated Cowher for never winning the big one. Or for almost never winning the one before the big one...and then when he did make a SB in 1995, he threw down the biggest choke job in Steelers history, right?

But, none of that mattered in 2005.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 04:20 PM
North, why do you keep bringing all this up?? My answers are not going to change from last week or the week before that. Listen very closely for the last time...

Cowher only had a franchise QB the final three years of his tenure; Tomlin has had a franchise QB his entire tenure. Yet, he's won as many championships as Cowher. Which means Tomlin is inept. Because Tomlin could not win as many games with Ben as Cowher won without Ben.

End of story my friend.

brothervad
03-11-2019, 04:30 PM
And frankly to add to this...Big Ben had yet to become the Big Ben yet. He was in year 2 and honestly the Ben who played in Super Bowl 40 was not the same Ben who played in Super Bowl

He needed a lot of help from that team in the form of a great D and the Bus...

Against the Cardinals, I really think Ben was the MVP not Santonio Holmes IMHO

Ben was in year 3 when Cowher retired, and I still think finding his HOF form.

brothervad

And before you chime in that Cowher held his reins back I provided stats that show he had more pass attempts in Cowher's final season and had almost 1/2 as many TD's as he did in Tomlin's first year...


Passing Table
Year
Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
QBR
Sk
Yds
NY/A
ANY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD
AV


2004 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/)
22
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004.htm)
QB
7
14
13
13-0-0
196
295
66.4
2621
17
5.8
11
3.7
58
8.9
8.4
13.4
187.2
98.1

30
213
7.41
6.93
9.2
4
5
11


2005 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/)
23
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2005.htm)
QB
7
12
12
9-3-0
168
268
62.7
2385
17
6.3
9
3.4
85
8.9
8.7
14.2
198.8
98.6

23
129
7.75
7.53
7.9
2
2
11


2006 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2006.htm)
QB
7
15
15
7-8-0
280
469
59.7
3513
18
3.8
23
4.9
67
7.5
6.1
12.5
234.2
75.4
55.5
46
280
6.28
4.97
8.9
2
3
11


2007 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/)*
25
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2007.htm)
QB
7
15
15
10-5-0
264
404
65.3
3154
32
7.9
11
2.7
83
7.8
8.2
11.9
210.3
104.1
75.1
47
347
6.22
6.55
10.4
1
2
14

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 04:49 PM
North, why do you keep bringing all this up?? My answers are not going to change from last week or the week before that. Listen very closely for the last time...

Cowher only had a franchise QB the final three years of his tenure; Tomlin has had a franchise QB his entire tenure. Yet, he's won as many championships as Cowher. Which means Tomlin is inept. Because Tomlin could not win as many games with Ben as Cowher won without Ben.

End of story my friend.

So, you don't accept comparisons to other teams with franchise QBs because they aren't the Steelers so they don't matter.

And you don't accept comparisons to the Steelers pre-Ben because Cowher didn't have a franchise QB.

Do you see how that's kind of odd?

squidkid
03-11-2019, 04:51 PM
Then you obviously saw a coach who was a perennial underachiever end up winning the Super Bowl.

I really liked Cowher as a coach. I still think he was great at putting together consistently competitive teams. And I think that's super important for success because the playoffs have a significant amount of luck in every game.

Cowher had 4 #1 seeds and in those years
- 1992 Lost in the divisional (I guess you'd consider this success with Noll's players?)
- 1994 Lost in the AFCC (Are these still Noll's players?)
- 2001 Lost in the AFCC (lost at home in the AFCC with his own players, I guess)
- 2004 Lost in the AFCC (see 2001)

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page24


Then won the whole thing in 2005 with a QB he didn't want while trying his best to make sure he never threw the ball too much.

Then went 8 - 8 with his players in 2006 before hanging it up due to be with his ailing wife.

You said a coach can't change after 12 years. Bill Cowher started as the Steelers coach in 1992. He has 12 years of being an amazing regular season coach who just couldn't win that last home field playoff game. Then, he won the SB as a wild card team! You couldn't have picked a better timeline in your post!

You probably would have fired him sometime after he got the #2 seed in 1997 and before he made the playoffs again in 2001.

Then, you probably would have called for his job after he lost on home field in the AFCC as the #1 seed in 2001.

If that didn't do it, you certainly would have been calling for his head after he "blew" another home AFCC home game in 2004.

You'd probably say something like "that guy would never win a SB. His whole legacy was chocking the playoffs". "Sure, he's good in the regular season. Get's lots of #1 seeds. But I don't care about the regular season. I measure success based on what Noll did. Cowher will never win a SB, I guarantee it!"

Of course, he won the next year.

These are all the same kind of things you say about Tomlin.

You also say you don't want to compare to other teams. How about comparing to Cowher's tenure as coach? If you looked at it in the same way you look at Tomlin, you would have absolutely hated Cowher for never winning the big one. Or for almost never winning the one before the big one...and then when he did make a SB in 1995, he threw down the biggest choke job in Steelers history, right?

But, none of that mattered in 2005.


so you are saying we should hang on to a coach forever because they might actually finally win a super bowl?
maybe if they would have got a new one sooner all those years wouldnt have been wasted, like tomlins last 10

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 04:57 PM
And frankly to add to this...Big Ben had yet to become the Big Ben yet. He was in year 2 and honestly the Ben who played in Super Bowl 40 was not the same Ben who played in Super Bowl

He needed a lot of help from that team in the form of a great D and the Bus...

Against the Cardinals, I really think Ben was the MVP not Santonio Holmes IMHO

Ben was in year 3 when Cowher retired, and I still think finding his HOF form.

brothervad

And before you chime in that Cowher held his reins back I provided stats that show he had more pass attempts in Cowher's final season and had almost 1/2 as many TD's as he did in Tomlin's first year...



Year
Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
QBR
Sk
Yds
NY/A
ANY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD
AV


2004 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/)
22
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004.htm)
QB
7
14
13
13-0-0
196
295
66.4
2621
17
5.8
11
3.7
58
8.9
8.4
13.4
187.2
98.1

30
213
7.41
6.93
9.2
4
5
11


2005 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/)
23
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2005.htm)
QB
7
12
12
9-3-0
168
268
62.7
2385
17
6.3
9
3.4
85
8.9
8.7
14.2
198.8
98.6

23
129
7.75
7.53
7.9
2
2
11


2006 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2006.htm)
QB
7
15
15
7-8-0
280
469
59.7
3513
18
3.8
23
4.9
67
7.5
6.1
12.5
234.2
75.4
55.5
46
280
6.28
4.97
8.9
2
3
11


2007 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/)*
25
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2007.htm)
QB
7
15
15
10-5-0
264
404
65.3
3154
32
7.9
11
2.7
83
7.8
8.2
11.9
210.3
104.1
75.1
47
347
6.22
6.55
10.4
1
2
14




Thanks for putting the data in a table! It's way easier to read that way.

I agree that Ben wasn't peak Ben early in his career. But, the Big Ben that played in SB 40 looked pretty great in the AFCC game against a Broncos team with a very strong D.

But my whole argument is that Ben was on a rookie deal then. That gave us way more flexibility to spend money on great players around Ben. That's the "cheat code" in the NFL. We are seeing the same thing with the Sea Hawks now. It's hard to have a great QB and a great D after the QB's rookie deal.

Great QB on a rookie deal means that you'll be competitive most years on that contract.

After that, you need to spend lots of money on the QB and the rest of the team around them isn't as good. So, success with franchise QBs on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th deals is more sporadic. This seems to be true for all franchise QBs in the cap era outside of Brady.

Northern_Blitz
03-11-2019, 04:59 PM
so you are saying we should hang on to a coach forever because they might actually finally win a super bowl?
maybe if they would have got a new one sooner all those years wouldnt have been wasted, like tomlins last 10

No!

I actually don't care if we fire Tomlin.

I just think that it's foolish to expect that firing Tomlin will solve the problems this team has.

I've tried to say this many times in many different ways. But apparently I'm not good at it.

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 06:13 PM
No!

I actually don't care if we fire Tomlin.

I just think that it's foolish to expect that firing Tomlin will solve the problems this team has.

I've tried to say this many times in many different ways. But apparently I'm not good at it.

No..the problem is that you don't think coaching is that important. When I used the Rams as an example and showed you how McVay took the same group of guys and won 12 games, you called it "Luck" because when something is shown to prove your theories wrong, you dismiss it.

Coaching is waaaaaaaay more important then you think. It's not just about the players. That's why you and I really have nothing to talk about.

**** Take a poll. Go see how many football fans in this poster room agree with you that coaching isn't as important (or more so) then the players. You are waaaaaaaaaaaay wrong in your theories about the importance of coaching in the NFL. Sean Mcvay personally proved you wrong. Also, What Belichick has done should also be proof to you how important coaching is.

pittpete
03-11-2019, 07:26 PM
Look what having the offensive players did for us the last few years.......

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 07:37 PM
Look what having the offensive players did for us the last few years.......

Boom......

steelz09
03-11-2019, 09:19 PM
When I saw what we received for Brown (or lack thereof), I had the same look Tomlin has on the sidelines each week.

https://94c0gqkhy4-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Deer-in-headlights.jpeg

squidkid
03-11-2019, 09:43 PM
No!

I actually don't care if we fire Tomlin.

I just think that it's foolish to expect that firing Tomlin will solve the problems this team has.

I've tried to say this many times in many different ways. But apparently I'm not good at it.

After 10 years Tomlin hasn't solved the problems so why stick with him?

Steel Maniac
03-11-2019, 11:31 PM
He’s ready to go 11, 12, 13..all the way to 20 years with Tomlin. Same as the Dolphins did with an out of touch Shula.

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 09:02 AM
After 10 years Tomlin hasn't solved the problems so why stick with him?

Tomlin exceeded what you said are reasonable expectations for coaching success.

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 09:16 AM
No..the problem is that you don't think coaching is that important. When I used the Rams as an example and showed you how McVay took the same group of guys and won 12 games, you called it "Luck" because when something is shown to prove your theories wrong, you dismiss it.

Coaching is waaaaaaaay more important then you think. It's not just about the players. That's why you and I really have nothing to talk about.

**** Take a poll. Go see how many football fans in this poster room agree with you that coaching isn't as important (or more so) then the players. You are waaaaaaaaaaaay wrong in your theories about the importance of coaching in the NFL. Sean Mcvay personally proved you wrong. Also, What Belichick has done should also be proof to you how important coaching is.

I also took you at your word when you said this.

But, it turns out that you weren't being truthful with this characterization. I don't follow the Rams so I didn't realize it (and I mistakenly thought you'd be arguing in good faith).

From Oh Wow in your Poll thread: The Rams also acquired Suh, Peters, Talib and Cooks because they had 45 mill in cap space

- Suh is a former defensive player of the year. 3 x 1st team all pro. 2x 2nd team all pro. 5x Pro bowler. Defensive rookie of the year.
- Peters honors include: first and second team all pro, defensive rookie of the year, 2 probowls.
- Talib: 1st team all pro, 2nd team all pro, 5x probowler.
- Cooks: Not as significant as the first 3 re awards.

Sounds like they added a **** ton of talent before last year.

What do you think our D would look like if we added 2 1st team all pro CBs and a DPOY in the front 7?

Do you think that infusion of high end talent might change how our D looks?

Before I thought that your argument wasn't unreasonable. Now I realize that it sucks (on top of being disingenuous).

squidkid
03-12-2019, 10:13 AM
Tomlin exceeded what you said are reasonable expectations for coaching success.


no, you took part of what i said and made a chart to make it look that way

Steel Maniac
03-12-2019, 10:22 AM
I also took you at your word when you said this.

But, it turns out that you weren't being truthful with this characterization. I don't follow the Rams so I didn't realize it (and I mistakenly thought you'd be arguing in good faith).

From Oh Wow in your Poll thread: The Rams also acquired Suh, Peters, Talib and Cooks because they had 45 mill in cap space

- Suh is a former defensive player of the year. 3 x 1st team all pro. 2x 2nd team all pro. 5x Pro bowler. Defensive rookie of the year.
- Peters honors include: first and second team all pro, defensive rookie of the year, 2 probowls.
- Talib: 1st team all pro, 2nd team all pro, 5x probowler.
- Cooks: Not as significant as the first 3 re awards.

Sounds like they added a **** ton of talent before last year.

What do you think our D would look like if we added 2 1st team all pro CBs and a DPOY in the front 7?

Do you think that infusion of high end talent might change how our D looks?

Before I thought that your argument wasn't unreasonable. Now I realize that it sucks (on top of being disingenuous).

Nope..you took what Oh wow said but he was wrong. Suh, Peterson, and the rest were not there when Mcvay took over. They only came aboard this past season. Remember, this last season was McVay's second season..not his first. Again, you twist things that are not true to help support a false scenerio. That's why you and I have nothing to really talk about. You live in a fantasy world. You really do.

Steel Maniac
03-12-2019, 10:25 AM
no, you took part of what i said and made a chart to make it look that way

Because that's what he does. He's not a truthful poster who can debate you with truthful things. He's a twister....he twist and lies about things to support his false sceanerios. Like the guy we have in the White House.

Squid, your wasting your time talking to him as am I. I'm not going to debate someone who lies and twist stuff from what was said.

squidkid
03-12-2019, 10:30 AM
Because that's what he does. He's not a truthful poster who can debate you with truthful things. He's a twister....he twist and lies about things to support his false sceanerios. Like the guy we HAD in the White House.

Squid, your wasting your time talking to him as am I. I'm not going to debate someone who lies and twist stuff from what was said.


fixed your post

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 10:31 AM
Nope..you took what Oh wow said but he was wrong. Suh, Peterson, and the rest were not there when Mcvay took over. They only came aboard this past season. Remember, this last season was McVay's second season..not his first. Again, you twist things that are not true to help support a false scenerio. That's why you and I have nothing to really talk about. You live in a fantasy world. You really do.

Didn't realize this was McVay's second season (as I said, I don't follow the Rams). I'd love for you to point to "lies" I've posted.

Do you think the difference between losing in the wild card game and making the SB was the large infusion of talent listed above?

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 10:34 AM
Because that's what he does. He's not a truthful poster who can debate you with truthful things. He's a twister....he twist and lies about things to support his false sceanerios. Like the guy we have in the White House.

Squid, your wasting your time talking to him as am I. I'm not going to debate someone who lies and twist stuff from what was said.

Again with the ad homonym arguments. It's non stop logical fallacies from you (I admit it's how you pull me back in).

Also, I'd point out that one of us often uses Trump's "I'm a counter puncher" type argument. And it's not me.

pittpete
03-12-2019, 02:37 PM
Northern_Blitz will now be called

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815PJgyxYQL._SX425_.jpg

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 02:48 PM
Northern_Blitz will now be called

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815PJgyxYQL._SX425_.jpg

I like the pic!

I'd love to have examples of how I'm "twisting" something. Like so many of Maniac's posts, just saying it doesn't make it true.

Re: Rams. I admitted to being wrong about the Rams and what Maniac was saying...although I think the two year sample says something interesting about coaching vs. talent. A coaching change got them from bad to a WC loss. Elite talent infusion got them from a WC loss to a SB loss. I think getting to the SB is much harder than getting to a WC game (but maybe I'm biased by the success the Steelers have had).

Re: Squid. This is what he said:


yawn, im getting tired
once again, my point is when you are the one of the top talented teams in the afc, #1 or #2, you should be playing in the afcc. if you are #3 or #4, you should be playing in the divisional. if you arent making it that far, you underachieved. if you are getting beat by a wild card team, you seriously underachieved.
and just because you may be ranked a little lower, doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to formulate a game plan and beat that better team once in awhile................it sure seems like that happens against us a bunch.

how can you look at the regular season and not expect the post season to follow suit?

http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page19

He just didn't like how the results looked when I evaluated the Steelers based on his criteria. So he moved the goal posts after the post.

I also like how he tried to cover himself by implying that the Steelers could / should upset other teams, but expected the Steelers to never be upset.

SS Laser
03-12-2019, 03:00 PM
Coaching is important. But the coaching staff might be more important then HC.
Make no mistake how important players are though. Chuck Noll had how many HOF players? Cowher needed Troy and Ben. And Dick Lebeau. With that same formula Tomlin won one and lost one.
Tomlin has had Ben last ten years but who on defense?
This is a way to simple example. But points to my point and others.

pittpete
03-12-2019, 03:00 PM
I was just joking North....:p

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 03:02 PM
I was just joking North....:p

Sorry, I'm way too sensitive today...fasting with my daughter as she preps for a colonoscopy tomorrow.

pittpete
03-12-2019, 03:04 PM
Best of luck.....

Northern_Blitz
03-12-2019, 03:21 PM
Best of luck.....

Thanks...it's rough for her because she's 7 and the prep is tough (especially drinking the magnesium drink to start the poop flowing)