how come tomlin has no talent

[squidkid]

when he has a poor year and under performs but has basically had the same roster the previous 2 years when they had talent?
had the team headed in the right direction?

[squidkid]

weird how the steelers are always in the top 3-7 to win the super bowl, according to vegas, without having any talent

[squidkid]

take the betting aspect out of it, and still the steelers are considered a top candidate every year by just about every publication and talking head..............this all with no talent

[flippy]

when he has a poor year and under performs but has basically had the same roster the previous 2 years when they had talent?
had the team headed in the right direction?

We're never as good as we think we are...or as bad either.

It's a fine line between winning and losing.

1 more made kick, 1 fewer INT, 1 fewer penalty, 1 won challenge, etc. and this team is in the playoffs.

But the same holds true during our wins which could have easily been losses - Cincy game 1 and Jax come to mind.

This team isn't that great, but they also were only a handful of plays from being the #1 seed in the AFC imho.

[Northern_Blitz]

when he has a poor year and under performs but has basically had the same roster the previous 2 years when they had talent?
had the team headed in the right direction?

How would you rate our talent at K this year?

[Oviedo]

We're never as good as we think we are...or as bad either.

It's a fine line between winning and losing.

1 more made kick, 1 fewer INT, 1 fewer penalty, 1 won challenge, etc. and this team is in the playoffs.

But the same holds true during our wins which could have easily been losses - Cincy game 1 and Jax come to mind.

This team isn't that great, but they also were only a handful of plays from being the #1 seed in the AFC imho.

We were 2 FGs and one Xtra Point from 12 wins and the #2 seed in the AFC. Not sure how Tomlin was supposed to predict or prevent Boswell from becoming the Steelers' version of Steve Blass but to some everything has to be his fault

[SteelerOfDeVille]

when he has a poor year and under performs but has basically had the same roster the previous 2 years when they had talent?
had the team headed in the right direction?
bell... shazier.

</thread>

[squidkid]

We were 2 FGs and one Xtra Point from 12 wins and the #2 seed in the AFC. Not sure how Tomlin was supposed to predict or prevent Boswell from becoming the Steelers' version of Steve Blass but to some everything has to be his fault


yup, and last year we were a few missed kicks from being out of the playoffs yet some fans said we had talent last year but not this
you are the one always beating the 'no talent' drum for tomlin, so how is it possible with the same basic roster?

[squidkid]

bell... shazier.

</thread>

it should be quite apparent bell was not missed production or locker room wise.................and there was no reason not to address the ilb position thru the draft or FA

[Northern_Blitz]

it should be quite apparent bell was not missed production or locker room wise.................and there was no reason not to address the ilb position thru the draft or FA

Over his career, Bell has fumbled once for every 193 touches.

Conner has fumbled once every 75 touches.

For every 5 fumbles Conner has, we'd expect Bell to have 2.

Fumbles were one of the key things that killed our team this year.

Who would you have drafted (without a crazy trade up) or brought in via UFA (that fit under our cap) to fix the ILB position? Fixing these kinds of issues are easy on Madden. But I think they're hard in real life.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

it should be quite apparent bell was not missed production or locker room wise.................and there was no reason not to address the ilb position thru the draft or FA
so, you agree on Shazier?

as for Bell, if you look at pure stats, nope. but, stats alone don't win games. and if stats were all that mattered, Troy Aikman wouldn't be in the HOF. He was UNDER 3000 yards more times that he was over. Yes, THREE thousand. Broke 20 TDs ONCE during his career. During FOUR seasons, he threw more INT than TD (with another at 13-12).

Back to Bell... the ability to line him up as a WR means nothing? the flexibility? making a defense game plan for that?

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Over his career, Bell has fumbled once for every 193 touches.

Conner has fumbled once every 75 touches.

For every 5 fumbles Conner has, we'd expect Bell to have 2.

Fumbles were one of the key things that killed our team this year.

Who would you have drafted (without a crazy trade up) or brought in via UFA (that fit under our cap) to fix the ILB position? Fixing these kinds of issues are easy on Madden. But I think they're hard in real life.
honestly, my 2 picks in this past draft that i *hoped* would fall are Vander Esch or Jaire Alexander. Both will be pro-bowlers... Leighton's already playing. And, yup, I woulda traded up for him.

[squidkid]

so, you agree on Shazier?

as for Bell, if you look at pure stats, nope. but, stats alone don't win games. and if stats were all that mattered, Troy Aikman wouldn't be in the HOF. He was UNDER 3000 yards more times that he was over. Yes, THREE thousand. Broke 20 TDs ONCE during his career. During FOUR seasons, he threw more INT than TD (with another at 13-12).

Back to Bell... the ability to line him up as a WR means nothing? the flexibility? making a defense game plan for that?


yup, shazier was great. why not address the position then?
how did our offense rank when bell was on this team, yards or points? redzone? what did we win with him?

[squidkid]

Over his career, Bell has fumbled once for every 193 touches.

Conner has fumbled once every 75 touches.

For every 5 fumbles Conner has, we'd expect Bell to have 2.

Fumbles were one of the key things that killed our team this year.

Who would you have drafted (without a crazy trade up) or brought in via UFA (that fit under our cap) to fix the ILB position? Fixing these kinds of issues are easy on Madden. But I think they're hard in real life.


they are hard, thats why asking a fan is retarded. people are paid a lot of money to know these things and when they get it wrong, they SHOULD feel the repercussions

[BURGH86STEEL]

yup, shazier was great. why not address the position then?
how did our offense rank when bell was on this team, yards or points? redzone? what did we win with him?
They did address the MLB position. Bostic played well at times. They were also hoping to replace the loss of Shazier with sub packages. I think injuries to some of the DB's they wanted to use set that plan back a bit.

The fact is there wasn't a LB in the draft that matched Shazier's speed. Not many LB's in the history of the league could match Shazier's speed.

The Bell no show hurt the team by not having his versatility and from a depth perspective. Individuals can help teams win games. Teams win championships.

[NorthCoast]

AB was out 2 of the last 3 games last season. Conner went to IR at the end of last season. Vance McDonald missed 1/4 of the season last year.

It may be the same roster, but who was playing when was very different.

[Northern_Blitz]

honestly, my 2 picks in this past draft that i *hoped* would fall are Vander Esch or Jaire Alexander. Both will be pro-bowlers... Leighton's already playing. And, yup, I woulda traded up for him.

I would have loved it if they fell too. I also would have loved a trade up. But, moving up 11 - 12 spots in the draft is very expensive.

My guess is that they explored moving up, but the price was too high. And they may not have even explored moving up in that range, because going from 28 (660) to 17 (950) would have cost us our 2nd (or next year's first, but Pittsburgh doesn't trade next year's picks...especially 1st rounders). And that's if the Chargers even wanted to move down. If they really loved James, then they may not have been willing to move at all.

[Northern_Blitz]

so, you agree on Shazier?

as for Bell, if you look at pure stats, nope. but, stats alone don't win games. and if stats were all that mattered, Troy Aikman wouldn't be in the HOF. He was UNDER 3000 yards more times that he was over. Yes, THREE thousand. Broke 20 TDs ONCE during his career. During FOUR seasons, he threw more INT than TD (with another at 13-12).

Back to Bell... the ability to line him up as a WR means nothing? the flexibility? making a defense game plan for that?

I really like Conner and think he will be a good back. But last year, he fumbled at more than twice the rate Bell has over his career.

And turnovers (and kicking) sunk this team.

[Ernie]

Over his career, Bell has fumbled once for every 193 touches.

Conner has fumbled once every 75 touches.

For every 5 fumbles Conner has, we'd expect Bell to have 2.

Fumbles were one of the key things that killed our team this year.

Who would you have drafted (without a crazy trade up) or brought in via UFA (that fit under our cap) to fix the ILB position? Fixing these kinds of issues are easy on Madden. But I think they're hard in real life.

And for every million we paid Conner this year... we would have paid LB 15+ times that amount lol I thought we got a bargain considering he made the pro bowl. Bell is the last thing this team needs.... moving forward.

[Ernie]

Conner made a deficiency last year (pass pro) a strength this year.

He will do the same with protecting the football. You will see..
Then the Conner doubters will have nothing to complain about lol

[Northern_Blitz]

And for every million we paid Conner this year... we would have paid LB 15+ times that amount lol I thought we got a bargain considering he made the pro bowl. Bell is the last thing this team needs.... moving forward.

I 100% agree that we should be done with Bell and the talk of a potential transition tag is lunacy.

But, the team would have been better this year if he played out the franchise tag instead of not playing.

The good thing is that we saw that we're OK at RB. We might lose some productivity (or have a few more fumbles), but we can get by on the cheap while there are much bigger issues to take care of on D.

[Northern_Blitz]

Conner made a deficiency last year (pass pro) a strength this year.

He will do the same with protecting the football. You will see..
Then the Conner doubters will have nothing to complain about lol

I hope so.

He certainly got better at pass pro this year (and receiving).

Hoping that the fumbles can be addressed (or that it was just a small sample size thing). He's earned the right to the opportunity IMO

Also hoping that he can stay healthy for a full season (this was also an issue with Bell...and probably most RBs).

[Captain Lemming]

when he has a poor year and under performs but has basically had the same roster the previous 2 years when they had talent?
had the team headed in the right direction?

Tomlin had a horrible season as a coach. True.
But I find it interesting that YOU only now acknowledge that he "had the team headed in the right direction".
Why did you argue vigorously against that contention AT THE TIME squid?

I have no issue for criticism of this season. I think it is warranted.

I take issue with people who ONLY comment on the negative and find reasons to dismiss the positive.

Tomlin has been a "good" not "great" coach overall.

He had a terrible season. I do fear he may have lost the team.
A repeat of this season and it might be time for him to go.

But what you just acknowledge here only further proves my long standing contention that you just dont like the man period.

[squidkid]

They did address the MLB position. Bostic played well at times. They were also hoping to replace the loss of Shazier with sub packages. I think injuries to some of the DB's they wanted to use set that plan back a bit.

The fact is there wasn't a LB in the draft that matched Shazier's speed. Not many LB's in the history of the league could match Shazier's speed.

The Bell no show hurt the team by not having his versatility and from a depth perspective. Individuals can help teams win games. Teams win championships.


bostic, really?
heres one of my problems. everyone in the world knew we needed an ilb. so what do we do, draft a safety, wr and qb................they didnt even try to address it
sure no one in the history is as fast. does that mean dont try to find one until there is?
now guess what, we need a ilb again this year
bell hurt the team because tomlin let him. bell did tomlin a favore by not showing up
we have the same draft needs this year as last. that shouldnt happen.

[squidkid]

Tomlin had a horrible season as a coach. True.
But I find it interesting that YOU only now acknowledge that he "had the team headed in the right direction".
Why did you argue vigorously against that contention AT THE TIME squid?

I have no issue for criticism of this season. I think it is warranted.

I take issue with people who ONLY comment on the negative and find reasons to dismiss the positive.

Tomlin has been a "good" not "great" coach overall.

He had a terrible season. I do fear he may have lost the team.
A repeat of this season and it might be time for him to go.

But what you just acknowledge here only further proves my long standing contention that you just dont like the man period.


wrong, my 'headed in the wrong direction' was quotes from the tomlin fans , not me
im not sure i ever denied not liking tomlin. matter of fact, i hate him now

[squidkid]

AB was out 2 of the last 3 games last season. Conner went to IR at the end of last season. Vance McDonald missed 1/4 of the season last year.

It may be the same roster, but who was playing when was very different.

2 out of 3, what are you talking about? connor on IR..............what?
i gotta believe the steelers were one of the very healthiest teams that last couple years

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Conner made a deficiency last year (pass pro) a strength this year.

He will do the same with protecting the football. You will see..
Then the Conner doubters will have nothing to complain about lol
That's silly.

Does saying Player A is player B make you a player B doubter?

"Jerry Rice was better than Randy Moss"

"All you Randy Moss doubters...."

Not a single soul said Conner sux. He's very damned good. Bell was just better.
But, this thread started as "same talent last 2 years" and has morphed into something else when proven that this wasn't the case (squid even agreed that they miss Shazier's , but, tried to change the discussion)... silly post

[squidkid]

That's silly.

Does saying Player A is player B make you a player B doubter?

"Jerry Rice was better than Randy Moss"

"All you Randy Moss doubters...."

Not a single soul said Conner sux. He's very damned good. Bell was just better.
But, this thread started as "same talent last 2 years" and has morphed into something else when proven that this wasn't the case (squid even agreed that they miss Shazier's , but, tried to change the discussion)... silly post


lol..............thats what ive come to expect from the tomlin fans. 1 great player is missing from this team and they had ample time to address it thru FA or the draft. they chose not to do it. so maybe they needed to change the defensive philosophy without shazier..............lets do neither and then blame lack of shazier for our failure

[Steel Maniac]

We had ample enough time to adequately replace Shazier; but we didn't. We passed on Harold Landry and the Colts stud linebacker in the draft and took Edmonds.

We missed on both those guys and it just seems that if it's not a top, top pick in the first round, Colbert/Tomlin can't seem to hit on linebackers anymore. Maybe we need new talent evaluators who can evaluate LB talent past the first round. Because it's kind of comical how they can't hit at that position after round one.

[RuthlessBurgher]

We had ample enough time to adequately replace Shazier; but we didn't. We passed on Harold Landry and the Colts stud linebacker in the draft and took Edmonds.

We missed on both those guys and it just seems that if it's not a top, top pick in the first round, Colbert/Tomlin can't seem to hit on linebackers anymore. Maybe we need new talent evaluators who can evaluate LB talent past the first round. Because it's kind of comical how they can't hit at that position after round one.

Harold Landry would have been a pick to replace Bud Dupree, not Ryan Shazier. He's a pass rusher, not an ILB.

[Oviedo]

lol..............thats what ive come to expect from the tomlin fans. 1 great player is missing from this team and they had ample time to address it thru FA or the draft. they chose not to do it. so maybe they needed to change the defensive philosophy without shazier..............lets do neither and then blame lack of shazier for our failure

So it is your contention that not getting a very good LB in Free Agency or the draft is Tomlin's fault. Colbert, cap space reality, not finding a trade partner in the draft to trade up are all on Tomlin???

If true, I guess I understand where you burning hatred is coming from. Essentially in your scary world Tomlin is the Anti-Christ bringing about the Steelers End of Days.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

lol..............thats what ive come to expect from the tomlin fans. 1 great player is missing from this team and they had ample time to address it thru FA or the draft. they chose not to do it. so maybe they needed to change the defensive philosophy without shazier..............lets do neither and then blame lack of shazier for our failure
i'm a steelers fan, not a tomlin fan.
you said the team was the same.
i said Bell, Shazier.
It's not.
Period.
keep backpedaling, though.

[Northern_Blitz]

lol..............thats what ive come to expect from the tomlin fans. 1 great player is missing from this team and they had ample time to address it thru FA or the draft. they chose not to do it. so maybe they needed to change the defensive philosophy without shazier..............lets do neither and then blame lack of shazier for our failure

How would you have replaced Shazier?

Your choices are probably trade our 1st + our 2nd + something else to move up in the draft OR maybe last year's first + this year's first +. And didn't others say that many of the early ILBs were limted by injuries this year?

Or, you could have signed a big name UFA. But, I'm not sure how you make room for that during the UFA period while still paying Shazier and having Bell's tag on the books. I thought they shouldn't have tagged Bell (argued with Felt about it at the time) and tried to use the money to get an ILB. But once they put the tag on, there was no real choice for a big UFA upgrade.

[squidkid]

i'm a steelers fan, not a tomlin fan.
you said the team was the same.
i said Bell, Shazier.
It's not.
Period.
keep backpedaling, though.


thats the biggest chicken ---- cop out in the world. one player who was great and another who was easily replaced and you want to go all literal and say it wasnt exactly the same players

[squidkid]

So it is your contention that not getting a very good LB in Free Agency or the draft is Tomlin's fault. Colbert, cap space reality, not finding a trade partner in the draft to trade up are all on Tomlin???

If true, I guess I understand where you burning hatred is coming from. Essentially in your scary world Tomlin is the Anti-Christ bringing about the Steelers End of Days.

obviously im on one end of the spectrum and you are on the other. i hate tomlin for what this team has become and find fault in him. you love him for having the record he has and absolve him of any blame

[Steel Maniac]

Harold Landry would have been a pick to replace Bud Dupree, not Ryan Shazier. He's a pass rusher, not an ILB.

No, you miss my point. We were at red alert in the Linebacker corps regardless; because coming into this year, the only legit linebacker was Watt. At the end of 2018 season, the only legit linebacker is still Watt. We needed an upgrade in linebacker (other the Watt) regardless of weather it was inside or outside linebacker. And we missed.

We would have welcomed whatever linebacker upgrade we got regardless.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

thats the biggest chicken ---- cop out in the world. one player who was great and another who was easily replaced and you want to go all literal and say it wasnt exactly the same players
not even from a literal perspective... you lost 2 pro bowlers (in fact, Bell was an all-pro at one point). it's NOT the same.
it's not like losing Eli Rodgers and replacing him with Justin Hunter. You lost studs.
your post is faulty.
again, keep backpedaling

[Northern_Blitz]

not even from a literal perspective... you lost 2 pro bowlers (in fact, Bell was an all-pro at one point). it's NOT the same.
it's not like losing Eli Rodgers and replacing him with Justin Hunter. You lost studs.
your post is faulty.
again, keep backpedaling

Three after we trade AB this year.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Three after we trade AB this year.

Yeah...Ryan Shazier, Le'Veon Bell, and Antonio Brown...likely the 3 most talented athletes on our roster (and would likely be in the top 5 of any team's roster). That's a lot of talent to lose in a relatively short amount of time. The 2017 was able to give us an impact LB, WR, and RB in Watt, Smith-Schuster, and Conner to help ease the blow somewhat, but that's still a remarkable amount of talent to lose within a small window. Plus, we also somehow lost a Pro Bowl kicker (2017 Boswell) and replaced him with an awful kicker (2018 Boswell). Who knew?

[Oviedo]

Plus, we also somehow lost a Pro Bowl kicker (2017 Boswell) and replaced him with an awful kicker (2018 Boswell). Who knew?

Steve Blass knew!!!!

[Ernie]

I 100% agree that we should be done with Bell and the talk of a potential transition tag is lunacy.

But, the team would have been better this year if he played out the franchise tag instead of not playing.

The good thing is that we saw that we're OK at RB. We might lose some productivity (or have a few more fumbles), but we can get by on the cheap while there are much bigger issues to take care of on D.

I agree that we would have been a better team this past year with Bell on it. Not necessary from a RB production standpoint... but more so due to the philosophy change that Bell brings to the table. I could be wrong but I don't recall seeing us throw it as quite as much when Bell was on the field.

[steelz09]

I like the subject of this thread.

It's 100% spot on.... Tomlin has no talent. Well, maybe one talent.... Cliches and probably mopping the floor.

[Steel Maniac]

I like the subject of this thread.

It's 100% spot on.... Tomlin has no talent. Well, maybe one talent.... Cliches and probably mopping the floor.

Just look at the team for the last 8 years; especially the last 6; 3 playoff wins in the last 8 years is gross underachievement for the teams we've fielded.

[Northern_Blitz]

Just look at the team for the last 8 years; especially the last 6; 3 playoff wins in the last 8 years is gross underachievement for the teams we've fielded.

What do you think would be an "acceptable achievement" for the teams we've fielded over those 8 years?

[RuthlessBurgher]

I've got a question for the board...

Does anyone know how many playoff games that we've won in the last 8 years?

If someone can do this research for me, I'd really like to know.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I've got a question for the board...

Does anyone know how many playoff games that we've won in the last 8 years?

If someone can do this research for me, I'd really like to know.

2 or 4. Not sure which.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I've got a question for the board...

Does anyone know how many playoff games that we've won in the last 8 years?

If someone can do this research for me, I'd really like to know.
you mean, "since we fired Arians"?

[NorthCoast]

I've got a question for the board...

Does anyone know how many playoff games that we've won in the last 8 years?

If someone can do this research for me, I'd really like to know.
Somewhere way back when, I heard something about 3. But I could be misremembering.

[Buzz]

Since losing to the Packers in SB XLV, we've won three playoff games in 8 seasons (Bengals in 2015, Dolphins and Chiefs in 2016).

[Steel Maniac]

I've got a question for the board...

Does anyone know how many playoff games that we've won in the last 8 years?

If someone can do this research for me, I'd really like to know.

Hahahaha...I love it. That factoid of truth is so iron clad that the TBW can't argue with it so they belittle it. The ultimate compliment. :smile:

[Northern_Blitz]

Hahahaha...I love it. That factoid of truth is so iron clad that the TBW can't argue with it so they belittle it. The ultimate compliment. :smile:

So you agree that you belittle us (by calling us Tomlin Ball Washers) because you can't win your argument with truth?

I've always assumed that's why people used ad hominem arguments. It's just rare to see people admit it.

[Steel Maniac]

So you agree that you belittle us (by calling us Tomlin Ball Washers) because you can't win your argument with truth?

I've always assumed that's why people used ad hominem arguments. It's just rare to see people admit it.

Please ..stop trying to deflect....Truth..

Tomlin has won 3 playoff games in the last 8 years. Truth.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Steelers brace for 'tough' reality of losing top talent

Jan 17, 2019

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

PITTSBURGH -- No need to tell Pittsburgh Steelers president Art Rooney II about the difficulties of finding transcendent talents.

He has seen three absurdly good players -- linebacker Ryan Shazier, wide receiver Antonio Brown and running back Le'Veon Bell -- lead his team to victories only to leave the lineup, potentially for good.

When asked about losing top-15 players such as these, Rooney acknowledged the obvious with the trade discussion around Brown: Talent prevails.

"That's one reason why we haven't made any decisions on Antonio yet," Rooney said in a Wednesday interview with a small group of local reporters.

Loose translation: All-Pros are really hard to find, no matter how difficult. That's why any exchange for Brown must produce serious draft capital. And the Steelers are hemorrhaging top talent. As a result, this offseason is shaping up to be a test of mettle for an organization that must strengthen the roster on the fly.

The loss of Shazier to a severe spinal injury in late 2017, coupled with Bell's yearlong holdout and the seemingly inevitable trade of Brown, are nearly impossible to replace on the surface. Shazier wants to continue rehabbing for a return to football, and the Steelers plan to help him with that, but he's not in the plans for the 2019 roster.

To be sure, the Steelers are good enough to win games without those players. And quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who's due an extension this offseason, gives Pittsburgh a chance in every game.

With a little creativity, they can be right back in contention.

They have $27.72 million in salary-cap space, according to OverTheCap.com. They can create more with roster cuts and restructuring the final year on Roethlisberger's deal.

"We have a lot to things to evaluate," Rooney said. "Having a little extra cap space always helps, that's for sure."

Rooney said the Steelers feel good about their running-back lineup with "two good, young players" in James Conner and Jaylen Samuels. The Steelers haven't made a firm decision on whether to place the franchise tag on Bell for a third consecutive year, but Conner made a Pro Bowl in his first season as a starter and Samuels is a natural pass-catcher. They can roll with those two players if Bell's situation has become too explosive.

"We feel like we're in pretty good shape there," Rooney said. "The linebacker position is still something we need to address. It's a challenge, no doubt about it."

That's where the Brown trade could help. Perhaps leveraging Brown for a first-round pick could help the Steelers land a top linebacker such as LSU's Devin White. Getting a first-rounder, though, is hardly a guarantee for a receiver turning 31 in July, no matter how great.

Rooney would like to see more turnovers created on defense and improvement in the secondary. A rangy inside linebacker to pair with Vince Williams would provide balance to the front seven.

Life without Bell and Brown will quell the storylines coming out of Pittsburgh's locker room but hurt the team's talent quotient.

As Rooney points out, the team has seen big personalities come and go.

"We work hard to try to bring people here who are a good fit," Rooney said. "But people are different, and we’ve had some different characters here and there over the years. ... If there are lessons to be learned here, we’ll look at that and see if we can do better.”

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29971/steelers-brace-for-tough-reality-of-losing-top-talent

[Steel Maniac]

Going to be a super pivitol off-season. Will Colbert be the aggressive Colbert that we saw go after Troy P? Or will he run the off-season in the usual manner? Going to be interesting.

[Northern_Blitz]

Please ..stop trying to deflect....Truth..

Tomlin has won 3 playoff games in the last 8 years. Truth.

It is truth (although I would also say earned one bye which is closer to the whole truth). But it's not useful until we can put some context around it.

The context I think we need should be answered by questions like:
1) Is that good enough?
2) Why / why not? (what should the expectation be, what are reasonable benchmarks, why 8 years)
3) What were the major causes for the wins / loses?
4) How much of those causes are within the organization's control at any level?
5) How much of the praise / blame is reasonable to put on the Head Coach?
6) Why? How much of the outcome is because of the Head Coach?

Then repeat 5 and 6 for other important pieces of the Steelers including (but not limited to) the GM, the QB (the player that's most imporant), and the other players.

I think these would be the kind of questions we'd have to answer if (1) we actually had the power to make a decision and (2) we wanted to make a decision based on logic / reason instead of emotional reaction.

[Northern_Blitz]

Going to be a super pivitol off-season. Will Colbert be the aggressive Colbert that we saw go after Troy P? Or will he run the off-season in the usual manner? Going to be interesting.

I agree here.

But, I tend to think that we're already too late to have a very good chance of winning at least next year.

I think that losing 3 of our best players in 2 years (assuming AB goes) is too much talent to lose and remain competitive.

I also think that defensive acquisitions need more than one season to fully integrate into a new scheme (particularly draft picks, but UFAs too).

So, I think that our O will be worse next year with the loss of AB.

And, I don't think our D will be all that much better (but hopefully we peak at the end of the season).

I think we will be stuck with pinning our hopes on improvements in turnovers and kicking. I think both should be better next year (by reversion to the mean if nothing else). I think that will put us in the playoffs, but won't be enough for us to be favorites.

The crappy thing about the off season is that we're forced to wait.

[squidkid]

not even from a literal perspective... you lost 2 pro bowlers (in fact, Bell was an all-pro at one point). it's NOT the same.
it's not like losing Eli Rodgers and replacing him with Justin Hunter. You lost studs.
your post is faulty.
again, keep backpedaling

you lost 1 pro bowl rb and replaced him with another and lost a tonm opf locker room drama.
so again, you lost a pro bowl lb but chose to not even attempt to replace him
tomlins fault shazier got hurt, no
tomlins fault for not even trying to replace him or alter defense , yup
do you think the other teams in the playoffs had as many pro bowlers as us?