Are AB and LB leaving enough to change the culture?

[D Rock]

Clearly this team has struggled with what it means to be a professional lately. Are AB and Bell the primary culprits? Will moving on from both of them in dramatic fashion, during their primes, be enough of a message sent to the rest of the players to turn things around?

Both are money driven all-pros, both in the discussion for being the best at their position. Both have seemingly level headed, young, and very talented players behind them in Conner and JuJu who could possibly replicate their production.

Is it enough?

[The Man of Steel]

Tomlin needs to stop being everyone’s homey and focus on being a more mature role model. Say what you want about Belicheck but at least he plays the part of a grown ass football coach.

[Steel Maniac]

No it’s not enough ; you know what really needs to happen. So I’m just waiting patiently until it does so we can get back into the buisness of winning championships.

[Moonie]

Losing those two clowns, and the devastating loss of Shazier, is enormous. I can't remember any team losing that much talent in such a short period. It will have significant impact on us in winning games going forward.

[Steel Maniac]

Losing those two clowns, and the devastating loss of Shazier, is enormous. I can't remember any team losing that much talent in such a short period. It will have significant impact on us in winning games going forward.

It probably will. We need an influx of talent; we can't afford to miss anymore on high draft picks on defense. It burns me up on how we missed on Leonard and Harold Landry. Either one would have been a welcomed addition for our defense.

[Eich]

Is it enough?

Don't forget Porter and Harrison. All 4 of these guys were apparently doing their best to make for an unprofessional atmosphere.

[Oviedo]

I ask again, do two players a culture make. Given the response we have heard from other players it appears Brown and Bell are outliers and the vast majority of the team is united in their culture and their view of behavior outside of the cultural norm.

To me that means that the vast majority of this team isn't going to tolerate that behavior or embrace it.

[brothervad]

I ask again, do two players a culture make. Given the response we have heard from other players it appears Brown and Bell are outliers and the vast majority of the team is united in their culture and their view of behavior outside of the cultural norm.

To me that means that the vast majority of this team isn't going to tolerate that behavior or embrace it.

I get it you refuse to suggest its a culture thing.

it's not two. LeGarratte Blount was part of this...he got his way and went to a SuperBowl winning team thus setting the precedent.
Harrison he got his way and went to a super bowl participant
Bell
Brown


Look you can believe what you want obviously, but to suggest this was two people is inaccurate. There has been some history of this. I would suggest that most of the time things of this nature (cultural aspects) stay in the house. If these incidents come out and are in public imagine how many more issues have occurred.

Let me add this...

Given your position, you would not have thought there was a culture issue behind the scenes within the Seattle Seahawks. They had very little stuff leak out. Suddenly you saw after the purge of all Pro defenders, that there was a huge problem in the locker room. They let some pretty world class talent go (Bennet, Sherman) and still will after this year with Earl Thomas.

Some of the stuff was eerily familiar with sleeping in team meetings or reading a book while the head coach was trying to coach them up (sound familiar)?

Pete Carroll has even gone as far as to admit that there was a need for a change. That happens with most players coaches. I would say seeing what I saw upfront this year, they were hugely successful by addition by subtraction.

borthervad

[SteelDecipher]

Tomlin needs to stop being everyone’s homey and focus on being a more mature role model.

^This

1000%

[Steel Maniac]

I get it you refuse to suggest its a culture thing.

it's not two. LeGarratte Blount was part of this...he got his way and went to a SuperBowl winning team thus setting the precedent.
Harrison he got his way and went to a super bowl participant
Bell
Brown


Look you can believe what you want obviously, but to suggest this was two people is inaccurate. There has been some history of this. I would suggest that most of the time things of this nature (cultural aspects) stay in the house. If these incidents come out and are in public imagine how many more issues have occurred.

Let me add this...

Given your position, you would not have thought there was a culture issue behind the scenes within the Seattle Seahawks. They had very little stuff leak out. Suddenly you saw after the purge of all Pro defenders, that there was a huge problem in the locker room. They let some pretty world class talent go (Bennet, Sherman) and still will after this year with Earl Thomas.

Some of the stuff was eerily familiar with sleeping in team meetings or reading a book while the head coach was trying to coach them up (sound familiar)?

Pete Carroll has even gone as far as to admit that there was a need for a change. That happens with most players coaches. I would say seeing what I saw upfront this year, they were hugely successful by addition by subtraction.

borthervad

he will play down every situation and say management is in control and everything will always be sunny.

[brothervad]

he will play down every situation and say management is in control and everything will always be sunny.

Well at this point Ovi can state what ever he wants. He asked me to provide evidence that this isn't an isolated case to two indviduals. I just did. If he is unwilling to move a little and concede that there may be cultural issues (I don't need him to say that their absolutely are issues, just concede that there is some possibility), then discussing any further with him about this is a waste of both our time.

I also tried to use the Seattle example as to suggest that things may look alright on the outside and be a boiling cauldron underneath (Sherman showed on the field anger issues and the play was bad last year for the hawks, but if Ovi was hawks fan he would have suggested the very same things he is here.) And it was a Sh*t show behind the scenes.

brothervad

[D Rock]

This article about 'Guap Avenue' in the Steelers locker room told me all I needed to know about a handful of guys and what their personalities are like. Now Haden - I don't see any problems from him. But AB, and also Vince Williams and some of his past actions...


https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29787/in-steelers-locker-room-enter-guap-avenue-at-own-risk%3fplatform=amp

[Steel Maniac]

This article about 'Guap Avenue' in the Steelers locker room told me all I needed to know about a handful of guys and what their personalities are like. Now Haden - I don't see any problems from him. But AB, and also Vince Williams and some of his past actions...


https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29787/in-steelers-locker-room-enter-guap-avenue-at-own-risk%3fplatform=amp

woow..that's a heck of a view inside that locker room.

[pittpete]

Wow, guys cant have a little fun?

[Steel Maniac]

LMFAO! okay..if that's what you want to call it! :smile:

[BURGH86STEEL]

If this is the case for the Steelers then the entire league and professional sports in general have "cultural" problems.

People let a few bad or questionable apples let it spoil their opinion of the 95 to 98 percent of the players who are not problems. The large majority of Steelers players don't cause issues.

[Disco1981]

I would guess...That is EVERY SINGLE NFL lockeroom

[Mick'sTeam]

Tomlin is like the parent on Intervention preaching to their child to go to treatment while driving them to meet their dealer. Total enabler.

[pittpete]

LMFAO! okay..if that's what you want to call it! :smile:

You want them to all behave like little soldiers?
Dam, dont you remember playing HS football?

[D Rock]

If this is the case for the Steelers then the entire league and professional sports in general have "cultural" problems.

People let a few bad or questionable apples let it spoil their opinion of the 95 to 98 percent of the players who are not problems. The large majority of Steelers players don't cause issues.

The problem isn't how many players are causing problems, the problem is how many problems are caused that distract other players

[BURGH86STEEL]

The problem isn't how many players are causing problems, the problem is how many problems are caused that distract other players
I don't believe distraction is the same thing as a Steeler cultural issue. I don't believe that AB caused that big of an issue to disrupt the overall culture of the Steelers. Players are professionals and have jobs to do.

I think watching what Shazier had to endure on the field last season was a worse distraction than anything AB could ever do. AB antics are childish. Shazier was a wake up call for all players.

[Steel Maniac]

Yeah, the team really woke up after Shazier. :rolleyes:

[NorthCoast]

It is interesting how views on AB have changed as time has past. 'Hardest worker on the team...", "shows up every game and gives 100%" to "major distraction", "head case", 'not a team player'.

I think the team MVP vote just really hit him hard and drove him over the edge. He probably felt like he busted his butt every game and even his own teammates didn't appreciate what he brought to the team. Instead of taking offense, it may have served AB better if he reflected a bit on why the team voted the way they did. Humility doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

[pittpete]

Poor AB, he always could've counted all the $$$ he was being paid...

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I think the team MVP vote just really hit him hard and drove him over the edge. He probably felt like he busted his butt every game and even his own teammates didn't appreciate what he brought to the team. Instead of taking offense, it may have served AB better if he reflected a bit on why the team voted the way they did. Humility doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

My thoughts when the team voted JuJu MVP was that it was a reinforcement of their faith in him after his fumble in New Orleans. I don't know if the vote was just after, but the results came not long after that game. It was done more as support for a teammate who feels he just let his team down.

I just found it ironic that when the rest of the team placed their votes to support one teammate, another feels that it was a slight towards him.

[Buzz]

I just found it ironic that when the rest of the team placed their votes to support one teammate, another feels that it was a slight towards him.

Only happens when the latter is a narcisstic baby. AB is a tremendously talented player on the outside. Inside, he's little more than an infant.

[Steel Maniac]

Only happens when the latter is a narcissistic baby. AB is a tremendously talented player on the outside. Inside, he's little more than an infant.

Buzz, if you look at his behavior off the field, all the signs were there. Management choose to ignore them. IF...you know what behavior I'm referring to. :smile:

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Buzz, if you look at his behavior off the field, all the signs were there. Management choose to ignore them. IF...you know what behavior I'm referring to. :smile:

I'm guessing that there are behaviors that we as fans know, and there are others that we never hear about. While we hear or see things every few months or so, and then piece them together, these incidents are most likely part of an ongoing pattern that isn't reported on daily.

I saw a stat a few weeks ago stating that a comparatively high percentage of Ben's picks came on passes thrown to AB. I forget the numbers but something like AB was targeted 25% of the throws, but 38% of Ben's picks were on throws targeting Brown. We also know how many times we have seen things like Ben trying to force the ball to AB and causing poor throws. My question is this: How many of those forced throws to AB were a result of Ben trying to keep the peace/make AB happy? How many of those ill-advised passes would he have thrown towards a different receiver? Of course these are questions that we will never get an answer to (unless Ben writes a book post-retirement) but for all the times we saw Ben make a ridiculous throw and wondered "What was he thinking?" Maybe that is an answer to our question.

[Steel Maniac]

I'm guessing that there are behaviors that we as fans know, and there are others that we never hear about. While we hear or see things every few months or so, and then piece them together, these incidents are most likely part of an ongoing pattern that isn't reported on daily.

I saw a stat a few weeks ago stating that a comparatively high percentage of Ben's picks came on passes thrown to AB. I forget the numbers but something like AB was targeted 25% of the throws, but 38% of Ben's picks were on throws targeting Brown. We also know how many times we have seen things like Ben trying to force the ball to AB and causing poor throws. My question is this: How many of those forced throws to AB were a result of Ben trying to keep the peace/make AB happy? How many of those ill-advised passes would he have thrown towards a different receiver? Of course these are questions that we will never get an answer to (unless Ben writes a book post-retirement) but for all the times we saw Ben make a ridiculous throw and wondered "What was he thinking?" Maybe that is an answer to our question.

But what your saying doesn't fit the " It's all Ben's fault" narrative that is floating around this website. You mean Ben was actually trying to cater to Brown? That's just doesn't fit the narrative I've heard.

[Northern_Blitz]

It is interesting how views on AB have changed as time has past. 'Hardest worker on the team...", "shows up every game and gives 100%" to "major distraction", "head case", 'not a team player'.

I think the team MVP vote just really hit him hard and drove him over the edge. He probably felt like he busted his butt every game and even his own teammates didn't appreciate what he brought to the team. Instead of taking offense, it may have served AB better if he reflected a bit on why the team voted the way they did. Humility doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

I think both.

I think he busts his ass to be the best.

But i also think his ego is fragile and he throws fits at percieved slights