Tomlin Has To Be Fired.

[flippy]

I’m done with Tomlin after the fake punt. That should be the end of his time in Pittsburgh.

No one can trust his gut at this point. Even if we win a SuperBowl this year, Tomlin should be fired IMHO.

[brothervad]

Like I said if you are going to go on 4th and 5 why not use your HOF QB and All world WR

[flippy]

Like I said if you are going to go on 4th and 5 why not use your HOF QB and All world WR

agreed. There’s no excuse.

[brothervad]

Sick of this guy playing by his gut and not with his head...

[Eich]

Worst decision of the game. Can’t overcome that AND phantom PI calls.

Stick a fn fork in’em

[Steel Maniac]

Like I said, my mind is already on next week against the bengals. Cause we’re not beating the best team in football.

[flippy]

It’s a shame. This team has enough talent. Tomlin held them back.

[Steel Maniac]

Dont say that flippy; the Tomlin ball washers will be here any minute to show you his regular season record and everything.

[Buzz]

Coaching matters. A lot. But other than last week, our coaching has been a big FAIL down the stretch this season.

Oh, but some will be really happy, because MT will still have his no-losing-season record intact.

[Moonie]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

[SteelBucks]

It’s almost like Tomlin wants to get fired. Run Ridley? Fake punt? Wtf is going on

[pfelix73]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

As they say.... The Standard is the Standard..

[Sword]

Like I said if you are going to go on 4th and 5 why not use your HOF QB and All world WR that is exactly what I was thinking!!!

[pittpete]

Honestly wouldnt be upset if they canned Butler and sent Tomlin with him.
Tired of this soft predictable porous defense.

[MCHammer]

It’s almost like Tomlin wants to get fired. Run Ridley? Fake punt? Wtf is going on

It wasn't just Ridley. It was turning from what had been working to run the ball 3 times in the row. Had Ridley not fumbled, it would still have been a stupid sequence that cost us possession. We'd only be punting instead.

This team has a lot of talent and has consistently been able to lose close games and even win games despite giving the ball away constantly. They almost did it again tonight. Almost.

Tomlin's call on the fake punt is just plain football malpractice. It wouldn't matter if it had worked or if we had managed to overcome it and win anyway. There is no excuse for it. It is awful and just plain objectively wrong.

Tomlin does a lot of things right, but continues to showcase glaring deficiencies in football basics.

[pittpete]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

Unless Samuels was hurt why line up in an I and run with a cold Ridley when you're cutting up the Saints D like a Thanksgiving turkey?
The fake punt is genius if it works IMO because with Butlers zone a blind bat could complete a pass.

[Eich]

Tomlin won’t be fired, though I’m ready for a change.

But someone sure as hell should be fired. Too much talent to have a season like this.

Pathetic.

[SteelBucks]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

IMO both calls were dumb. At some point you have to play good situational football...especially with the season on the line. Tomlin failed miserably.

[papillon]

Unless Samuels was hurt why line up in an I and run with a cold Ridley when you're cutting up the Saints D like a Thanksgiving turkey?
The fake punt is genius if it works IMO because with Butlers zone a blind bat could complete a pass.

100% agree, the really only play call I hated all day, was putting in Ridley to run that play. I haven't seen the shovel pass all year, I feel like the shovel to McDonald (like Heath used to run) would have been a good play right there, he's big and strong and can fall forward for a couple yards.

Pappy

[KYPITTFAN]

Fake punt giving Brees a short field, stupid. 3rd and 2 run when Ben was on fire, stupid (he has on a head set he could have called off the run), Not calling a time out on the plus side of the 2 min warning, stupid.
Let's not even talk about all the bad losses ie Raiders, Broncos, Browns, etc.
Tomlin will never win another SB!!!

[Moonie]

Tomlin doesn't get fired for almost beating the best team in football in their dome. We left it all on the field (except the weird Ridley run).

That demented PI call in the first quarter should get that idiot official fired!

Tomlin's low moments were that Raiders loss.

[Steel Maniac]

We are in this position because we lost to the worse team in football in the Raiders.

[brothervad]

Pap/Pete,

We will just have to disagree here.

You will never convince me that a 4th and 5 at the hands of a FB and ST vs a QB with 380 yards and WR with 185 yds (both by end of game) that had been almost perfect up to that point was not the better play call than a cutesy Fake Punt by a S.T. coach that has been mainly maligned this year.

brothervad

[Northern_Blitz]

Tomlin doesn't get fired for almost beating the best team in football in their dome. We left it all on the field (except the weird Ridley run).

That demented PI call in the first quarter should get that idiot official fired!

Tomlin's low moments were that Raiders loss.

This is a reasonable post at a time when it's ease (and understandable) to be unreasonable.

This season has been very dissapointing. Seems like we've just been on the wrong side of the bounces from fumbling of our the end zone to the missed false start to horrendous FG kicking from a guy that was clutch last year to the terrible PI in the end zone today.

Seems like everything that could go wrong did this year. Sucks because you never know how many Ben had left.

But maybe we'll be able to pick up an impact defender with an earlier pick than usual

[SteelCrazy]

Tomlin will never get fired. I hate his coaching and his big rotten gut, but it'll never happen.

TJ Watt is an animal!

[pittpete]

I hear ya brother but did you really think our defense would stop them?
I didnt hate the call because he took a shot for the win.

[Iron City Inc.]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

Ridley play was a head scratcher but it's one of about 75 plays. Fake punt I can live with. Thought we used our TO's well n we had a shot to tie it or win it on that last drive. Saints are as tough as it gets in their place. If we don't get to the post season it was more about blowing lead in Cleveland , losing to Raiders n tanking 2nd half against SD rather then today.

[papillon]

Pap/Pete,

We will just have to disagree here.

You will never convince me that a 4th and 5 at the hands of a FB and ST vs a QB with 380 yards and WR with 185 yds (both by end of game) that had been almost perfect up to that point was not the better play call than a cutesy Fake Punt by a S.T. coach that has been mainly maligned this year.

brothervad

I'm not saying there weren't better options, I'm saying that I don't have a problem with the call. I think the offense can put it away if they make the 1st down. Maybe, a better option would have been to keep the offense on the field and see if you can get them to jump or get up to the line and snap it on 1st sound while the defense is settling in, but I don't have a problem with trying to win the game with the fake either.

Pappy

[brothervad]

I have not been calling for Tomlin to be fired but I am calling for changes. Not only his assistants, but also on how he manages/goes by gut and his challenges.

I want everyone to take a moment and think about what you saw today. There is a chance Big Ben will never be in another super bowl.

It's one of the hardest things to do when you are healthy. Pittsburgh has been relatively healthy last 2 years.
Ben has been very healthy last 2 seasons
The Oline has been relatively healthy last 2 seasons.

That is unlikely to last.

Aaron Rodgers hasn't been back since he beat the Steelers
Ben is on the south side of his career. I am not saying he will hit the wall next year but it is going to happen eventually. He will get hurt again or his weapons around him.

That is why some of us on the anti-Tomlin side are so angry.

There isn't a lot of time left and seeing all of this talent going to waste is infuriating to say the least.

So I am suggesting before you get mad at the Anti-Tomlin camp understand where we are coming from right now

Well at least from my standpoint.

brothervad

[Captain Lemming]

I hear ya brother but did you really think our defense would stop them?
I didnt hate the call because he took a shot for the win.

Wait....you and I are on the wrong sides on this thing.

[pittpete]

Tomlin knows Butlers d wouldnt hold the lead so im not pissed about it.
When was the last time this defense put a team away?

[KYPITTFAN]

Ridley play was a head scratcher but it's one of about 75 plays. Fake punt I can live with. Thought we used our TO's well n we had a shot to tie it or win it on that last drive. Saints are as tough as it gets in their place. If we don't get to the post season it was more about blowing lead in Cleveland , losing to Raiders n tanking 2nd half against SD rather then today.

Stupid to not call a time out on the plus side of the 2 min waning at the end of the game. Would have made Saints run a play and use up a down.

[Disco1981]

I've been harder than anybody on Tomlin...The Refs gave the Saints the 1st 2 TD's...And ****in Ridley...They played their hearts out, this week and last but...The Oakland loss, Denver loss, Charger loss, Cleveland tie...Is on Tomlin!

[SteelBucks]

Tomlin doesn't get fired for almost beating the best team in football in their dome. We left it all on the field (except the weird Ridley run).

That demented PI call in the first quarter should get that idiot official fired!

Tomlin's low moments were that Raiders loss.

IMO, on gameday it’s the coaches jobs to put their players in the best position to win. Did they do that today? I don’t think the Ridley run or the fake punt were in the best interests of the team. The team played hard only to be done it by some really questionable play calls. (The leaky defense didn’t help matters...or the terrible PI calls)

[NorthCoast]

I have not been calling for Tomlin to be fired but I am calling for changes. Not only his assistants, but also on how he manages/goes by gut and his challenges.

I want everyone to take a moment and think about what you saw today. There is a chance Big Ben will never be in another super bowl.

It's one of the hardest things to do when you are healthy. Pittsburgh has been relatively healthy last 2 years.
Ben has been very healthy last 2 seasons
The Oline has been relatively healthy last 2 seasons.

That is unlikely to last.

Aaron Rodgers hasn't been back since he beat the Steelers
Ben is on the south side of his career. I am not saying he will hit the wall next year but it is going to happen eventually. He will get hurt again or his weapons around him.

That is why some of us on the anti-Tomlin side are so angry.

There isn't a lot of time left and seeing all of this talent going to waste is infuriating to say the least.

So I am suggesting before you get mad at the Anti-Tomlin camp understand where we are coming from right now

Well at least from my standpoint.

brothervad

And bringing in a new HC at this point in the QB's career will lead to more wins?? I think not... likely set the team back another 3 years by the time they learn a new system. No thanks.

[brothervad]

And bringing in a new HC at this point in the QB's career will lead to more wins?? I think not... likely set the team back another 3 years by the time they learn a new system. No thanks.


Please read the first sentence again...

I have not been calling for Tomlin to be fired but I am calling for changes. Not only his assistants, but also on how he manages/goes by gut and his challenges.

All I was trying to say is that there are valid reasons to be irate at Coach Tomlin. Please don't tell me you think all is well. If you do then we have nothing further to discuss.

I will repeat what I typed earlier...The window is closing. If you are happy with the winning record thing and want to keep things the same then you will unlikely see another super bowl in Ben's tenure here.

There needs to be changes in defensive scheme, talent assessment, gameday coaching and the silly a$$ drama. You can say it had no impact, but 7-2-1 is now likely at best to be 9-6-1.

That is "unleash hell" type of numbers IMO.

brothervad

[pittpete]

Why would Ben have to learn a new system if you brought in a defensive minded HC?

[Steel Maniac]

I've been harder than anybody on Tomlin...The Refs gave the Saints the 1st 2 TD's...And ****in Ridley...They played their hearts out, this week and last but...The Oakland loss, Denver loss, Charger loss, Cleveland tie...Is on Tomlin!

Boom..........

[Steelhere10]

The dumb call was Ridley run.

Fake punt was fine.

I agree, 100%. He was asked about that and said if Riddley does not fumble that it was two down territory.

[NorthCoast]

Please read the first sentence again...

I have not been calling for Tomlin to be fired but I am calling for changes. Not only his assistants, but also on how he manages/goes by gut and his challenges.

All I was trying to say is that there are valid reasons to be irate at Coach Tomlin. Please don't tell me you think all is well. If you do then we have nothing further to discuss.

I will repeat what I typed earlier...The window is closing. If you are happy with the winning record thing and want to keep things the same then you will unlikely see another super bowl in Ben's tenure here.

There needs to be changes in defensive scheme, talent assessment, gameday coaching and the silly a$$ drama. You can say it had no impact, but 7-2-1 is now likely at best to be 9-6-1.

That is "unleash hell" type of numbers IMO.

brothervad

I agree with changes to Defensive evaluators. The proof is Steelers fails rarely go on to succeed elsewhere. Meanwhile the defense doesn't get better in the backfield.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Tomlin knows Butlers d wouldnt hold the lead so im not pissed about it.
When was the last time this defense put a team away?
Last week vs the Pats. They also made several stops vs the Saints. The game was loss because of two costly turnovers. Coaches and teams have a difficult time over coming turnovers.

[Captain Lemming]

Tomlin knows Butlers d wouldnt hold the lead so im not pissed about it.
When was the last time this defense put a team away?

Ummmm.
Last week.

[Ernie]

Tomlin knows Butlers d wouldnt hold the lead so im not pissed about it.
When was the last time this defense put a team away?

Last week versus the Pats...lol

[Ernie]

Last week vs the Pats. They also made several stops vs the Saints. The game was loss because of two costly turnovers. Coaches and teams have a difficult time over coming turnovers.

The Defense played well enough to win. Same with the Offense. It comes down to a few critical points... costly penalties...turnovers...and poor situational play calling.

[pittpete]

The Pats handed us the game...LOL

[NorthCoast]

The Defense played well enough to win. Same with the Offense. It comes down to a few critical points... costly penalties...turnovers...and poor situational play calling.

Yep. Lose the turnover margin usually loses the game. Especially against the best team in football. This time not on the QB, but others.... same result though.

[Buzz]

Last week vs the Pats. They also made several stops vs the Saints. The game was loss because of two costly turnovers. Coaches and teams have a difficult time over coming turnovers.

The turnovers were big, no doubt. So was the inability to stop the Saints when we needed to. So was the stupid fake on 4th that gave NO a short field. So was the decision to run fumble-prone Ridley right up into the teeth of one of the best run defenses in the league on a crucial 3rd down late in the 4th quarter.

[Terrapin]

The good news is, we won't have a losing season. That's all that matter to the Tomlin jock sniffers. Yaaayyy.

[Steel Maniac]

The good news is, we won't have a losing season. That's all that matter to the Tomlin jock sniffers. Yaaayyy.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.... the Tomlin propaganda will start soon

[Starlifter]

the fake punt was not a bad decision. although I don't think tomlin meant to indict his defense in the presser but that's exactly what he did and why I thought the fake was a reasonable call. make it and the game is likely over, miss it and they have a short field and your defense won't stop them so you'll have enough time to try and win/tie.

but if I had to point to items in this game, doesn't it once again come down to discipline and critical mistakes at critical times? red zone turnovers. missed turnover opportunities on defense. penalties such as AB's false start on the first play of the last drive. It's not about the effort the players give - but I think tomlin's teams largely are too much emotion and not enough discipline. both are important and the steelers failures this year have largely been of their own doing. Of the 6 losses, perhaps KC is the only one were we didn't beat ourselves.

mistakes happen, turnovers happen, coaches take a gamble and sometimes miss. that's part of football. But the steelers have made critical mistakes this year at the worst possible times. Do we lead the league in red zone turnovers? If not, we must be near the top. Other than the stop against the pats - has our defense made a game saving stand this year? how do you suddenly go zone on 3rd and 20??

it's always the chicken or the egg argument. players make the mistakes, not the coaches. but I subscribe to the theory that a coach isn't unlucky when his team makes mistakes or is highly penalized - he's accountable.

but I doubt the rooney's agree.....

[BURGH86STEEL]

The turnovers were big, no doubt. So was the inability to stop the Saints when we needed to. So was the stupid fake on 4th that gave NO a short field. So was the decision to run fumble-prone Ridley right up into the teeth of one of the best run defenses in the league on a crucial 3rd down late in the 4th quarter.
Short field wasn't an issue. I doubt the defense would had stop the Saints offense regardless of field position with 4 minutes remaining with 3 time outs. At least the Steelers offense had an opportunity to tie the game and Juju blew it with a fumble.

Coaches make mistakes. Show me coaches that don't make mistakes. Teams can live with and win with coaching and player mistakes. Teams can live with and win with injuries. What's difficult to win and live with are turnovers. The Steelers probably won't make the playoffs because they gave the ball away to much this season. Turnovers are the main reason this team is 8-7-1 right now.

[MCHammer]

For those of you defending the fake punt (run!) up the middle for 5 yards while on our own side of the field while in the lead on grounds that our defense couldn't be trusted, I'd point out that our defense today put in the following performance:

Saints 1st drive ----> interception

Saints 2nd drive ---> stopped them on 4th down only to have it taken away by refs on what everyone agrees was a horrible fake PI call, leading to a 1 yard touchdown run.

Saints 3rd drive ---> gave up touchdown.

Saints 4th drive ----> forced a punt.

Saints 5th drive ---> gave up field goal.

Saints 6th drive ---> gave up touchdown

Saints 7th drive---> forced a punt

Saints 8th drive ---> forced a punt

Saints 9th drive ---> blocked a FG

Saints 10th drive ---> gave up a touchdown following giving Saints a short field due to a failed fake punt.

In reality, the Steelers defense gave up 24 points and stopped the Saints on half of their drives. Saints had 57 total yards rushing. Steelers had 2 sacks and 5 QB hits.

Our defense played well enough to win the game. The referees, turnovers by our offense and bad coaching decisions cost us this game. I would put the turnovers at the front of that list, followed by coaching but reasonable people can disagree.

I don't see a basis, however, for a high-risk fake punt from your own side of the field when protecting a 4 point lead with 4 minutes left in the game. If your defense is stopping the other team from scoring on 50% of the drives and you have a 4 point lead, you don't need to call whacky trick play bull**** in that scenario.

[NorthCoast]

For those of you defending the fake punt (run!) up the middle for 5 yards while on our own side of the field while in the lead on grounds that our defense couldn't be trusted, I'd point out that our defense today put in the following performance:

Saints 1st drive ----> interception

Saints 2nd drive ---> stopped them on 4th down only to have it taken away by refs on what everyone agrees was a horrible fake PI call, leading to a 1 yard touchdown run.

Saints 3rd drive ---> gave up touchdown.

Saints 4th drive ----> forced a punt.

Saints 5th drive ---> gave up field goal.

Saints 6th drive ---> gave up touchdown

Saints 7th drive---> forced a punt

Saints 8th drive ---> forced a punt

Saints 9th drive ---> blocked a FG

Saints 10th drive ---> gave up a touchdown following giving Saints a short field due to a failed fake punt.

In reality, the Steelers defense gave up 24 points and stopped the Saints on half of their drives. Saints had 57 total yards rushing. Steelers had 2 sacks and 5 QB hits.

Our defense played well enough to win the game. The referees, turnovers by our offense and bad coaching decisions cost us this game. I would put the turnovers at the front of that list, followed by coaching but reasonable people can disagree.

I don't see a basis, however, for a high-risk fake punt from your own side of the field when protecting a 4 point lead with 4 minutes left in the game. If your defense is stopping the other team from scoring on 50% of the drives and you have a 4 point lead, you don't need to call whacky trick play bull**** in that scenario.Still like the Offense's chances with Roethlisberger sharp all day vs a 50/50 chance on defense.

[pittpete]

DEfense gave up 31 points and people are defending it.
The defense was average at best, seriously.

[winwithd]

For those of you defending the fake punt (run!) up the middle for 5 yards while on our own side of the field while in the lead on grounds that our defense couldn't be trusted, I'd point out that our defense today put in the following performance:

Saints 1st drive ----> interception

Saints 2nd drive ---> stopped them on 4th down only to have it taken away by refs on what everyone agrees was a horrible fake PI call, leading to a 1 yard touchdown run.

Saints 3rd drive ---> gave up touchdown.

Saints 4th drive ----> forced a punt.

Saints 5th drive ---> gave up field goal.

Saints 6th drive ---> gave up touchdown

Saints 7th drive---> forced a punt

Saints 8th drive ---> forced a punt

Saints 9th drive ---> blocked a FG

Saints 10th drive ---> gave up a touchdown following giving Saints a short field due to a failed fake punt.

In reality, the Steelers defense gave up 24 points and stopped the Saints on half of their drives. Saints had 57 total yards rushing. Steelers had 2 sacks and 5 QB hits.

Our defense played well enough to win the game. The referees, turnovers by our offense and bad coaching decisions cost us this game. I would put the turnovers at the front of that list, followed by coaching but reasonable people can disagree.

I don't see a basis, however, for a high-risk fake punt from your own side of the field when protecting a 4 point lead with 4 minutes left in the game. If your defense is stopping the other team from scoring on 50% of the drives and you have a 4 point lead, you don't need to call whacky trick play bull**** in that scenario.

You missed the fact that on 4th and 2 just 2 minutes to play Haden gets called for PI when the ball was tipped. Then the TD was scored when there was a 2 handed push off that causes Haden to fall. The defense did play pretty well, unfortunately they fell victim to some $#/€€¥ reffing. And the offense fumbled twice in the 4th quarter while in FG range.

[Steel Maniac]

You missed the fact that on 4th and 2 just 2 minutes to play Haden gets called for PI when the ball was tipped. Then the TD was scored when there was a 2 handed push off that causes Haden to fall. The defense did play pretty well, unfortunately they fell victim to some $#/€€¥ reffing. And the offense fumbled twice in the 4th quarter while in FG range.

Considering who we played, I thought the defense played well enough but obviously Tomlin didn’t agree because he did the fake punt.

[Moonie]

Tomlin may have called the fake punt for the usual assortment of reasons you call fake punts. It probably had nothing to do with his relative lack of confidence in the defense. I don't think it was a bad call, or any more of a bad call than any other fake punt.

Also, aren't around 90% of punts, and therefore fake punts, from your own side of the field? It seems we were in the best place to try a fake punt, the worst being from your own 1.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I’m done with Tomlin after the fake punt. That should be the end of his time in Pittsburgh.

No one can trust his gut at this point. Even if we win a SuperBowl this year, Tomlin should be fired IMHO.

I didn't hate the idea of the fake punt - didn't love it but didn't hate it. My big concern is that with 5 yards to go you run it up the gut with your 250 pound fullback. If you are handing it to a guy behind the line of scrimmage in that situation make sure it is someone who actually has the speed to go 5 yards before the entire D realizes that he has the ball. I'd otherwise prefer throwing it to someone who has already gone 5 yards.

[NJ-STEELER]

how does this coach think running a 250 lbs.fullback thru the middle of a defense for a good 10 yards from where he's set up to get a first down has a better chance then leaving you're offense on the field?

and for all the ebb and flow talk 2 weeks ago, the defense was actually performing well, so yeah, making the saints drive the whole length of the field was probably a better option as well.

I'm done with this dumb ass. all season long challenging plays that don't need to be challenged, then letting 2 go when the saints were well into our territory which ended in TDs.
i'm reading that 4th and 2 play in the last few minutes where they called PI on haden, the ball was tipped slightly at the line. when the camera's show the sideline we don't see any of the staff trying to find out if it did or not, all we get a shot of is coach woodsy the owl

[NJ-STEELER]

For those of you defending the fake punt (run!) up the middle for 5 yards while on our own side of the field while in the lead on grounds that our defense couldn't be trusted, I'd point out that our defense today put in the following performance:

Saints 1st drive ----> interception

Saints 2nd drive ---> stopped them on 4th down only to have it taken away by refs on what everyone agrees was a horrible fake PI call, leading to a 1 yard touchdown run.

Saints 3rd drive ---> gave up touchdown.

Saints 4th drive ----> forced a punt.

Saints 5th drive ---> gave up field goal.

Saints 6th drive ---> gave up touchdown

Saints 7th drive---> forced a punt

Saints 8th drive ---> forced a punt

Saints 9th drive ---> blocked a FG

Saints 10th drive ---> gave up a touchdown following giving Saints a short field due to a failed fake punt.

In reality, the Steelers defense gave up 24 points and stopped the Saints on half of their drives. Saints had 57 total yards rushing. Steelers had 2 sacks and 5 QB hits.

Our defense played well enough to win the game. The referees, turnovers by our offense and bad coaching decisions cost us this game. I would put the turnovers at the front of that list, followed by coaching but reasonable people can disagree.

I don't see a basis, however, for a high-risk fake punt from your own side of the field when protecting a 4 point lead with 4 minutes left in the game. If your defense is stopping the other team from scoring on 50% of the drives and you have a 4 point lead, you don't need to call whacky trick play bull**** in that scenario.

you would think a coach who knows the ebb and flow of the game would know how his defense was performing

[Captain Lemming]

Still like the Offense's chances with Roethlisberger sharp all day vs a 50/50 chance on defense.

It is not 50 percent.
They needed a touchdown, not just a score.
They had scored TWO legit touchdowns at the point where they did the fake punt.

[Ernie]

the fake punt was not a bad decision. although I don't think tomlin meant to indict his defense in the presser but that's exactly what he did and why I thought the fake was a reasonable call. make it and the game is likely over, miss it and they have a short field and your defense won't stop them so you'll have enough time to try and win/tie.

but if I had to point to items in this game, doesn't it once again come down to discipline and critical mistakes at critical times? red zone turnovers. missed turnover opportunities on defense. penalties such as AB's false start on the first play of the last drive. It's not about the effort the players give - but I think tomlin's teams largely are too much emotion and not enough discipline. both are important and the steelers failures this year have largely been of their own doing. Of the 6 losses, perhaps KC is the only one were we didn't beat ourselves.

mistakes happen, turnovers happen, coaches take a gamble and sometimes miss. that's part of football. But the steelers have made critical mistakes this year at the worst possible times. Do we lead the league in red zone turnovers? If not, we must be near the top. Other than the stop against the pats - has our defense made a game saving stand this year? how do you suddenly go zone on 3rd and 20??

it's always the chicken or the egg argument. players make the mistakes, not the coaches. but I subscribe to the theory that a coach isn't unlucky when his team makes mistakes or is highly penalized - he's accountable.

but I doubt the rooney's agree.....

When we pulled the fake punt, I'm thinking there was something close to 4 minutes left...and the Saints had all 3 of their timeouts. The game was far from over, even if we convert the fake punt. Other than that... I agree 100% with your post.

[MCHammer]

It is not 50 percent.
They needed a touchdown, not just a score.
They had scored TWO legit touchdowns at the point where they did the fake punt.

Good point. And the Steelers defense had stymied them on the prior 3 possessions. I'm really surprised by the number of people on here who are defending the fake punt call. It's just flat out dumb. But the older I get, the more I realize people simply see the world differently no matter the facts.

[Ernie]

It sure was a dumb play call. Just like the 3rd and 3 run with Ridley.

[Eich]

I didn't like the call and I saw/guessed it coming before they ran it.

But at the same time, if it had worked, then it would have been thought of by many as aggressive, playing to win. Of all the dumb things Tomlin has done, I don't put this in the top 5. But I didn't like it. At all.

IMO, that's the kind of call you make when you're behind and need multiple scores and really need your offense on the field. Like the surprise on-sides that Cowher ran in the Super Bowl. Not the kind of call you want, with the way this game was unfolding. And the ridiculous celebration after only adds insult to injury.

These past 5 losses, it seems like we willed a way to screw up. EVERYONE from Offense, to defense to special teams, kept finding ways to lose. Fumbles, interceptions, penalties, missed kicks, bad decisions, bad scheme, bad timing. It's hard to come away with any conclusion other than major underachieving.

[NorthCoast]

I didn't like the call and I saw/guessed it coming before they ran it.

But at the same time, if it had worked, then it would have been thought of by many as aggressive, playing to win. Of all the dumb things Tomlin has done, I don't put this in the top 5. But I didn't like it. At all.

IMO, that's the kind of call you make when you're behind and need multiple scores and really need your offense on the field. Like the surprise on-sides that Cowher ran in the Super Bowl. Not the kind of call you want, with the way this game was unfolding. And the ridiculous celebration after only adds insult to injury.

These past 5 losses, it seems like we willed a way to screw up. EVERYONE from Offense, to defense to special teams, kept finding ways to lose. Fumbles, interceptions, penalties, missed kicks, bad decisions, bad scheme, bad timing. It's hard to come away with any conclusion other than major underachieving.Turnovers were the Steelers undoing this season. They were -10 in turnover margin! Last year, they were +2.

And more importantly, of the 15 giveaways, 6 were in the 4th quarter. In tight games, this is all the difference really between a win or loss.

(need further proof?... last season CLE was an incredible -28 in TO margin.. this season they are 4th best at +9).

[Oviedo]

Tomlin doesn't get fired for almost beating the best team in football in their dome. We left it all on the field (except the weird Ridley run).

That demented PI call in the first quarter should get that idiot official fired!

Tomlin's low moments were that Raiders loss.

A measured and rational post...how refreshing

[NorthCoast]

Steelers were #7 in the NFL in pts/drive at 2.35. Those 6 TOs in the 4th quarter could have yielded 14 pts. That converts to 4 extra wins if you divving up those points in tight losses.

[Steel Maniac]

Steelers were #7 in the NFL in pts/drive at 2.35. Those 6 TOs in the 4th quarter could have yielded 14 pts. That converts to 4 extra wins if you divving up those points in tight losses.

Here we go. :rolleyes: if my aunt had a package, she’d be my uncle. Lol

[Shawn]

I will fully disagree. I actually said to my wife after we failed that it was a solid decision, and certainly one I would have made. Now trying to run it that distance? Maybe not but going for it made sense. Why? Well, two reasons. What happens when we punt the ball? Brees has 4 minutes to dice us up and I had zero expectation that this secondary could stop him. Brees is a HOF QB for a reason. The decision was made because two positive outcomes could happen. One, is we get the 4th conversion and are in prime position to close the game. Two, if we fail Ben will have enough time to do what Ben does. I want the ball in the hands of our HOF QB not theirs. That’s exactly how it played out. The O just didn’t close.

[brothervad]

I will fully disagree. I actually said to my wife after we failed that it was a solid decision, and certainly one I would have made. Now trying to run it that distance? Maybe not but going for it made sense. Why? Well, two reasons. What happens when we punt the ball? Brees has 4 minutes to dice us up and I had zero expectation that this secondary could stop him. Brees is a HOF QB for a reason. The decision was made because two positive outcomes could happen. One, is we get the 4th conversion and are in prime position to close the game. Two, if we fail Ben will have enough time to do what Ben does. I want the ball in the hands of our HOF QB not theirs. That’s exactly how it played out. The O just didn’t close.

I am okay with the decision to go for it. But again, you have a rarely used FB, a suspect Special teams, and a team that may, just may be on the lookout for a fake punt given what you said above (they after all watch game film too).

So again, your HOF QB torches them all day for nearly 400 yds (380) two all pro WR's who had well over 100yds each to gain 5 yards. My only point is if you are gonna go for it...put it in your best players hands not get cutesy about the fake punt.

brothervad

[Ernie]

I will fully disagree. I actually said to my wife after we failed that it was a solid decision, and certainly one I would have made. Now trying to run it that distance? Maybe not but going for it made sense. Why? Well, two reasons. What happens when we punt the ball? Brees has 4 minutes to dice us up and I had zero expectation that this secondary could stop him. Brees is a HOF QB for a reason. The decision was made because two positive outcomes could happen. One, is we get the 4th conversion and are in prime position to close the game. Two, if we fail Ben will have enough time to do what Ben does. I want the ball in the hands of our HOF QB not theirs. That’s exactly how it played out. The O just didn’t close.

Sounds great. Problem is... we wouldn't have been in a "Prime position to close the game" even if we had converted. Like you said, the Saints had all of their timeouts.. a first down conversion there wouldn't even have gotten us to mid field. and if we do somewhere get it into field goal range.... well... you know what Bozwell has been for us this season.

[steelz09]

It's not the loss to the saints that should get Tomlin fired.

It's the unacceptable losses, bad coaching and decision making.

The season shouldn't have come down to this game or the Pat's game.

Tomlin is a joke. It's time to move on. If the Rooneys dont fire him then I have to believe it has something to do with their legacy with the Rooney's Rule. There is simply no other explanation at this point.

But hey.... He achieved a .500 record. Pop the cork and pour the champagne.

[Shawn]

I am okay with the decision to go for it. But again, you have a rarely used FB, a suspect Special teams, and a team that may, just may be on the lookout for a fake punt given what you said above (they after all watch game film too).

So again, your HOF QB torches them all day for nearly 400 yds (380) two all pro WR's who had well over 100yds each to gain 5 yards. My only point is if you are gonna go for it...put it in your best players hands not get cutesy about the fake punt.

brothervad. All fair points and I can’t disagree. Imo we should have gone for it. But we should have let Ben and brown do what they do.

[Steel Maniac]

It's not the loss to the saints that should get Tomlin fired.

It's the unacceptable losses, bad coaching and decision making.

The season shouldn't have come down to this game or the Pat's game.

Tomlin is a joke. It's time to move on. If the Rooneys dont fire him then I have to believe it has something to do with their legacy with the Rooney's Rule. There is simply no other explanation at this point.

But hey.... He achieved a .500 record. Pop the cork and pour the champagne.



Green Bay fired McCarthy for being the same half-way coach that Tomlin is. I too feel the only reason he is there is because of the Rooney rule. I’ve posted a couple of times of the clear regression of this team since 2016. It has nothing to do with
Black, white, green or purple. It has to do with winning and more specifically winning in the post-season. Winning is colorless.

Tomlin is a coach who at best got B & C grades for the regular season but got D & F grades in the post season. But as of late, he’s even failing in the regular season. He needs to be let go. We will not win another super bowl with him as coach.

[Buzz]

It's not the loss to the saints that should get Tomlin fired.

It's the unacceptable losses, bad coaching and decision making.

The season shouldn't have come down to this game or the Pat's game.

Tomlin is a joke. It's time to move on. If the Rooneys dont fire him then I have to believe it has something to do with their legacy with the Rooney's Rule. There is simply no other explanation at this point.

But hey.... He achieved a .500 record. Pop the cork and pour the champagne.

I don't always agree with Cowherd, but I do with what he says in this video about the Steelers. He had a "reliable source" tell him that Steelers players are on their cell phones at halftime of ball games. Pretty hard to keep focus that way, I would think. But that goes directly to the head coach and what he allows.


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/12/24/18155395/the-herd-take

There need to be some changes.

[Steel Maniac]

Boom.............

[flippy]

I actually said to my wife after we failed that it was a solid decision, and certainly one I would have made.

What are you doing on Sundays between September and Februrary? Sounds like you might be just as qualified as Tomlin to coach this team with those kind of gut instincts :)

Seriously though, I get it. Let the Saints hurry up and score so we get the ball back and have time to score. But then again, why not call a timeout before the 2 min warning? Or why not let the Saints score quicker if that was the thinking? IMHO, it wasn't the thinking. It was Tomlin's gut in a moment of confused desperation. It was Tomlin trying to be cute. I dunno what it was, but there was no follow through on the subsequent series to follow through and let the Saints score immediately.

But let's go back to Tomlin's gut. He's essentially admitting he doesn't trust his D. He's supposed to be a D coach. He's used 1st round draft picks on how many D players recently. He's admitting his D sucks. And that's what he does. So the way I look at it, he deserves to be fired because either 1. He makes dumb choices lead by his gut (see recent results) or 2. He's admitting his D sucks and he's done nothing to fix it for years.

Either way, he should go.

How many years does Ben have left? Does Ben's career deserve to be held hostage to Tomlin's gut? Or his drafting? Or his D?

[Ernie]

Im sorry boys but I refuse to pin this one on the defense. We had held the best team in the league to 24 points... up until the fake punt debacle.

We've got 7 pro bowl caliber players on offense. I put it on them and the coaches. The "Minority ownership" was right to call for Tomlin's firing last year after the JAGS game... and I would imagine those calls will start again after this week. No excuse for a team of this talent to miss the playoffs.

[NorthCoast]

Green Bay fired McCarthy for being the same half-way coach that Tomlin is. I too feel the only reason he is there is because of the Rooney rule. I’ve posted a couple of times of the clear regression of this team since 2016. It has nothing to do with
Black, white, green or purple. It has to do with winning and more specifically winning in the post-season. Winning is colorless.

Tomlin is a coach who at best got B & C grades for the regular season but got D & F grades in the post season. But as of late, he’s even failing in the regular season. He needs to be let go. We will not win another super bowl with him as coach.

Do you understand the Rooney rule? Teams are not required to hire a minority coach. They are required to interview one. The Steelers satisfied this before they met with Tomlin when they interviewed Rivera. If you felt a coach would get you to a SB why would you not hire him?

[Northern_Blitz]

Green Bay fired McCarthy for being the same half-way coach that Tomlin is. I too feel the only reason he is there is because of the Rooney rule. I’ve posted a couple of times of the clear regression of this team since 2016. It has nothing to do with
Black, white, green or purple. It has to do with winning and more specifically winning in the post-season. Winning is colorless.

Tomlin is a coach who at best got B & C grades for the regular season but got D & F grades in the post season. But as of late, he’s even failing in the regular season. He needs to be let go. We will not win another super bowl with him as coach.

I think it's crazy to reduce all the success he's had to the hiring process.

I think it also suggests that lots of people made up their minds that he didn't deserve the job and have blocked out all the positive data.

Regardless of whether or not it's time to move on now, his accomplishments prove that his hire was reasonable... Especially since it's virtually the same way they hired Cowher (unknown at the time, but young and hungry).

Pointing back to the racial element of the hiring process is likely why people like Felt thought there was a racial reason people didn't like Tomlin.

[Ernie]

Tomlin was a good hire. He was able to take Cowher's players to a few Superbowls. From a fan's perspective... I don't regret it a bit. With that being said, it's time to move on.

It's just like Pouncey said about James Conner prior to the start of the season... "Stars are born every day".. There's a brilliant young mind out there waiting for a Head Coaching opportunity. We were able to find Cowher and Tomlin (who at the time of their hires were relative unknowns). I'm confident we will find the next rising star... which will get this team back into serious super bowl contenders.

[Ernie]

If for no other reason... us fans need a "Breath of fresh air" lol

something to get excited about.

[steelz09]

Tomlin was a good hire. He was able to take Cowher's players to a few Superbowls. From a fan's perspective... I don't regret it a bit. With that being said, it's time to move on.

It's just like Pouncey said about James Conner prior to the start of the season... "Stars are born every day".. There's a brilliant young mind out there waiting for a Head Coaching opportunity. We were able to find Cowher and Tomlin (who at the time of their hires were relative unknowns). I'm confident we will find the next rising star... which will get this team back into serious super bowl contenders.

Couldn't agree more.

[Oviedo]

If for no other reason... us fans need a "Breath of fresh air" lol

something to get excited about.

The Rooneys value continuity and consistency. They could care less about what air the fans are breathing which is why they have been as successful as they have been

[Ernie]

The Rooneys value continuity and consistency. They could care less about what air the fans are breathing which is why they have been as successful as they have been

oh I'd say they care a lot about their fans lol.. I feel sorry for you if you think Tomlin is the best this franchise can do

[flippy]

oh I'd say they care a lot about their fans lol.. I feel sorry for you if you think Tomlin is the best this franchise can do

I think the truth is in the middle. Tomlin was a godsend to this organization when we hired him, but now his time has passed. It’s time to move on to someone greater.

And i I think we need to hurry because Ben has limited time remaining. Let’s get something done while his window is still open. We don’t want to look back and wonder what if.

[Steel Maniac]

I think it's crazy to reduce all the success he's had to the hiring process.

I think it also suggests that lots of people made up their minds that he didn't deserve the job and have blocked out all the positive data.

Regardless of whether or not it's time to move on now, his accomplishments prove that his hire was reasonable... Especially since it's virtually the same way they hired Cowher (unknown at the time, but young and hungry).

Pointing back to the racial element of the hiring process is likely why people like Felt thought there was a racial reason people didn't like Tomlin.

And felt’s use of making race the excuse for other people not liking Tomlin was absurd. Again, I’ve also been lobbying for McCaffrey firing for years as well. Has nothing to do with race.

[Steel Maniac]

I think the truth is in the middle. Tomlin was a godsend to this organization when we hired him, but now his time has passed. It’s time to move on to someone greater.

And i I think we need to hurry because Ben has limited time remaining. Let’s get something done while his window is still open. We don’t want to look back and wonder what if.

Tomlin was good with Cowher’s players and coaches. The farther he got away from them, the worse Tomlin became. He was never a real coach in the sense. He can’t hire or fire his coaches; now reports players are on cell phones during games? AB video taping players only meetings? It’s been time for a change.

[Northern_Blitz]

And felt’s use of making race the excuse for other people not liking Tomlin was absurd. Again, I’ve also been lobbying for McCaffrey firing for years as well. Has nothing to do with race.

Then why point to the Rooney rule?

I don't know how you can say

" I too feel the only reason he is there is because of the Rooney rule."

And

Your position "[h] as nothing to do with race."

These two statements seem pretty contradictory to me.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Tomlin was good with Cowher’s players and coaches. The farther he got away from them, the worse Tomlin became. He was never a real coach in the sense. He can’t hire or fire his coaches; now reports players are on cell phones during games? AB video taping players only meetings? It’s been time for a change.

That's just not a reasonable thought process. 2014 Steelers 11-5. 2015 Steelers 10-6. 2016 Steelers 11-5. 2017 Steelers 13-3.

Never a real coach? A lot of people that coach and play in the league would disagree with you. Tomlin is a leader and good coach.

Sometimes people don't know how to place things in the proper perspective because they let negative emotions and disappointment cloud their brains. You seem to fall into that category.

I know the team fell short of winning the SB. I also believe Tomlin deserves better based on the above records over the past 4 seasons and overall track record with this team. Especially when one considers the reasons why the team loss in the playoffs.

There's been a lot of positives with Tomlin as HC. If you simply continue focus on the negatives you won't see the positives and find any enjoyment in the sport. I suppose the same can be said for life in general.

[Northern_Blitz]

That's just not a reasonable thought process. 2014 Steelers 11-5. 2015 Steelers 10-6. 2016 Steelers 11-5. 2017 Steelers 13-3.

Never a real coach? A lot of people that coach and play in the league would disagree with you. Tomlin is a leader and good coach.

Sometimes people don't know how to place things in the proper perspective because they let negative emotions and disappointment cloud their brains. You seem to fall into that category.

I know the team fell short of winning the SB. I also believe Tomlin deserves better based on the above records over the past 4 seasons and overall track record with this team. Especially when one considers the reasons why the team loss in the playoffs.

There's been a lot of positives with Tomlin as HC. If you simply continue focus on the negatives you won't see the positives and find any enjoyment in the sport. I suppose the same can be said for life in general.

Fwiw I agree strongly with this. Especially the gold.

[Shawn]

Yes, I agree Tomlin is a good coach. Great coach? That's up for debate.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yes, I agree Tomlin is a good coach. Great coach? That's up for debate.

I think it depends on how your define great.

I think he's in the 2nd tier of coaches today with only 1 guy in the 1st tier. To me that means he's probably great relative to his peers now, but not great historically (like I think it's clear he's not currently in the running for the HoF without at least one more SB win).

But, I think that this season has somewhat diminished my opinion of him.

[Steel Maniac]

That's just not a reasonable thought process. 2014 Steelers 11-5. 2015 Steelers 10-6. 2016 Steelers 11-5. 2017 Steelers 13-3.

Never a real coach? A lot of people that coach and play in the league would disagree with you. Tomlin is a leader and good coach.

Sometimes people don't know how to place things in the proper perspective because they let negative emotions and disappointment cloud their brains. You seem to fall into that category.

I know the team fell short of winning the SB. I also believe Tomlin deserves better based on the above records over the past 4 seasons and overall track record with this team. Especially when one considers the reasons why the team loss in the playoffs.

There's been a lot of positives with Tomlin as HC. If you simply continue focus on the negatives you won't see the positives and find any enjoyment in the sport. I suppose the same can be said for life in general.

Your entitled to your belief. I’m not looking for you to necessarily agree. The playoff win / loss speaks for itself. Just look at the last three years.

[Steel Maniac]

That's just not a reasonable thought process. 2014 Steelers 11-5. 2015 Steelers 10-6. 2016 Steelers 11-5. 2017 Steelers 13-3.

Never a real coach? A lot of people that coach and play in the league would disagree with you. Tomlin is a leader and good coach.

Sometimes people don't know how to place things in the proper perspective because they let negative emotions and disappointment cloud their brains. You seem to fall into that category.

I know the team fell short of winning the SB. I also believe Tomlin deserves better based on the above records over the past 4 seasons and overall track record with this team. Especially when one considers the reasons why the team loss in the playoffs.

There's been a lot of positives with Tomlin as HC. If you simply continue focus on the negatives you won't see the positives and find any enjoyment in the sport. I suppose the same can be said for life in general.

To imply that I don’t find enjoyment is an assumption by you that is flat out wrong. You read post and assume emotions and feelings that are wrong. I love football and most likely have loved it longer then you. The yellow comment is just a way to be little someone when they don’t agree with your opinion.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Yes, I agree Tomlin is a good coach. Great coach? That's up for debate.
That question won't be answered for years from now. Tomlin still appears to have passion for the game. His story is still being written

[Ernie]

Tomlin has been a good coach for us historically. it's obvious he's taking this team in the wrong direction. it will be interesting to see how long his past reputation will keep him in his current job.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Your entitled to your belief. I’m not looking for you to necessarily agree. The win / loss speaks for itself.
Yes the win/loss record with Tomlin as HC of this team speaks for itself.

[Steel Maniac]

Playoffs..........

[BURGH86STEEL]

To imply that I don’t find enjoyment is an assumption by you that is flat out wrong. You read post and assume emotions and feelings that are wrong. I love football and most likely have loved it longer then you. The yellow comment is just a way to be little someone when they don’t agree with your opinion.
I am sorry. I didn't mean to belittle you. Plenty of people find happiness and get jollies focusing on negativity.

There are plenty of positives if you choose to see them and properly weigh the negatives and positives. Wins and fielding competitive teams being at the top of the list of positives. That's why Tomlin still has a job.

We will truely know when it's time to fire Tomlin. That time isn't now.

[Steel Maniac]

That question won't be answered for years from now. Tomlin still appears to have passion for the game. His story is still being written Tomlin’s time is coming to an end. He won’t be here by 2020.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Playoffs..........

Teams have to have success in the regular season to make the playoffs. Tomlin helped this team win games in the playoffs. See the positive? They didn't win in the playoffs every year for different reasons. Not one team in the league wins every game in every year of the playoffs. That's one reason why the NFL is such an exciting sport.

I don't know................

[Ernie]

Tomlin’s time is coming to an end. He won’t be here by 2020.

I saw you call that a year ago.. a lot of folks will be eating crow if you are right!

[BURGH86STEEL]

Tomlin’s time is coming to an end. He won’t be here by 2020.

Maybe you are right? Maybe you will be wrong? Only time will tell.

[Northern_Blitz]

Playoffs..........

Didn't we show that he had the same or better playoff record than other coaches with franchise QBs except the Pat's (dynasty) and the Hawks (QB on rookie contract)?

[Northern_Blitz]

To imply that I don’t find enjoyment is an assumption by you that is flat out wrong. You read post and assume emotions and feelings that are wrong. I love football and most likely have loved it longer then you. The yellow comment is just a way to be little someone when they don’t agree with your opinion.

Sorry that you felt belittled.

I meant that is easy to get caught up in the negative, not you specifically.

[Buzz]

Over a ten year span, which would you rather have for the Steelers:

1) they never have a sub-.500 season, but they never get to the Super Bowl

or

2) they are sub-.500 in up to 5 of those years, but they win a Super Bowl or two during that decade


I'd go with #2.

[Northern_Blitz]

Over a ten year span, which would you rather have for the Steelers:

1) they never have a sub-.500 season, but they never get to the Super Bowl

or

2) they are sub-.500 in up to 5 of those years, but they win a Super Bowl or two during that decade


I'd go with #2.

Why is it a choice between those two?

I've the next decade, there a pretty good chance we'll have a bunch of sub 500 seasons and no SBs. That's actually the expected result of any particular decade in the NFL.

And I think the best way to win SBs is to be in the playoffs consistently and get hot at the right time.

[Buzz]

My point is, a Super Bowl win is worth more than a bunch of non-losing seasons. The ultimate prize in the NFL is the Lombardi trophy, not the Andy Reid award.

[Ernie]

Lets be honest... how many of you feel like Tomlin and co are going to outcoach teams in the playoffs? Getting there is one thing...

do we currently have the coaching talent (other than Munchak) to win a SB?

[Steel Maniac]

Lets be honest... how many of you feel like Tomlin and co are going to outcoach teams in the playoffs? Getting there is one thing...

do we currently have the coaching talent (other than Munchak) to win a SB?

And that’s it in a nutshell. Tomlin has done fine in the regular season; but he’s been bad in the playoffs. And to constantly point to what he’s done in the regular season to justify keeping him isn’t good enough anymore.

It’s been 10 years since we’ve won a super bowl.

[Northern_Blitz]

My point is, a Super Bowl win is worth more than a bunch of non-losing seasons. The ultimate prize in the NFL is the Lombardi trophy, not the Andy Reid award.

Is rather win a SB too.

But it's nice not to write off seasons early in the year. I'm also a Leafs fan and it really sucks to have multiple decades of futity (for every team in the city) .

I wonder if fans in Pittsburgh really appreciate that.

Edited to add: we've had a decade with 1 SB win 1 SB loss and been consistently competitive and people aren't satisfied. So I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be happy in your case either.

Rereading your post, you said "a superbowl or two". So that pretty much exactly what we have had... Except it's been almost 11 years instead of a literal decade.

[NorthCoast]

Is rather win a SB too.

But it's nice not to write off seasons early in the year. I'm also a Leafs fan and it really sucks to have multiple decades of futity (for every team in the city) .

I wonder if fans in Pittsburgh really appreciate that.

Edited to add: we've had a decade with 1 SB win 1 SB loss and been consistently competitive and people aren't satisfied. So I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be happy in your case either
You're trying to convince the instant gratification crowd.

[NorthCoast]

Over a ten year span, which would you rather have for the Steelers:

1) they never have a sub-.500 season, but they never get to the Super Bowl

or

2) they are sub-.500 in up to 5 of those years, but they win a Super Bowl or two during that decade


I'd go with #2.

You're lucky. The Steelers have done both. Won a SB in 2008 and haven't gone sub .500.

[SteelCrazy]

The fact is this: The Steelers have way too much talent to be 8-6-1!

Who's to blame for having the talent to win, but can't?

Being reported 10 players were on their cell phones at halftime vs Patriots.

Who's to blame for allowing nonsense in the locker room at halftime in a must win game?

Tomlin does just enough because he can coast with this talented team.

Who's to blame?

[NorthCoast]

The fact is this: The Steelers have way too much talent to be 8-6-1!

Who's to blame for having the talent to win, but can't?

Being reported 10 players were on their cell phones at halftime vs Patriots.

Who's to blame for allowing nonsense in the locker room at halftime in a must win game?

Tomlin does just enough because he can coast with this talented team.

Who's to blame?

They won the game against NE. Maybe they should be on their phones at every halftime?

[Northern_Blitz]

The fact is this: The Steelers have way too much talent to be 8-6-1!

Who's to blame for having the talent to win, but can't?

Being reported 10 players were on their cell phones at halftime vs Patriots.

Who's to blame for allowing nonsense in the locker room at halftime in a must win game?

Tomlin does just enough because he can coast with this talented team.

Who's to blame?

Honestly, sometimes you flip tails a bunch of times in a row.

We're too talented to have so many turnovers and our kicker is too talented to miss so many kicks.

That, plus a few terrible calls, easily cost us three to four wins this year.

I agree that it sucks, but I don't think we want to make a ton of huge changes immediately. It's like the economic fable about the fool in the shower.

[SteelCrazy]

They won the game against NE. Maybe they should be on their phones at every halftime?

They'll have the entire playoffs to be on their phones....more Twitter gold

[Buzz]

The fact is this: The Steelers have way too much talent to be 8-6-1!

Who's to blame for having the talent to win, but can't?

Being reported 10 players were on their cell phones at halftime vs Patriots.

Who's to blame for allowing nonsense in the locker room at halftime in a must win game?

Tomlin does just enough because he can coast with this talented team.



I had a teacher when I was in elementary school who would just sit on her a$$$, lazy as could be, and never teach us anything ... unless a parent or administrator came around to check on her. Then she turned on her charm, unloaded her intellectual talk, had all the answers, and put on a jolly good show. Once the grownup was out of the picture, she'd put her feet up and go back to her romance novel. We loved it -- had a free-for-all most of the time. But we never learned a thing in that classroom, unless it was a day when an adult showed up.
Bit us hard the next year when we had to learn everything we should have learned in that grade.

[BURGH86STEEL]

The fact is this: The Steelers have way too much talent to be 8-6-1!

Who's to blame for having the talent to win, but can't?

Being reported 10 players were on their cell phones at halftime vs Patriots.

Who's to blame for allowing nonsense in the locker room at halftime in a must win game?

Tomlin does just enough because he can coast with this talented team.

Who's to blame?
Turnovers are mostly to blame. Coaches don't turn the ball over. Attempting to blame one person in a team sport isn't an accurate of fair assessment.

Only 3 teams are in the playoff race have a negative turnover ratio. The Steelers, Ravens, and Eagles. 2 of those 3 teams might not make the playoffs. The Steelers are fortunate to even have a chance to make the playoffs considering they are -10 in turnovers.

[pittpete]

Heres a list of NFL coach of the year awards.
Jusy saying, Tomlin never made the list.

2017 Sean McVay
2016 Jason Garrett
2015 Ron Rivera
2014 Bruce Arians
2013 Ron Rivera
2012 Bruce Arians
2011 Jim Harbaugh
2010 Bill Belichick
2009 Marvin Lewis
2008 Mike Smith
2007 Bill Belichick

[Eich]

Heres a list of NFL coach of the year awards.
Jusy saying, Tomlin never made the list.

2017 Sean McVay
2016 Jason Garrett
2015 Ron Rivera
2014 Bruce Arians
2013 Ron Rivera
2012 Bruce Arians
2011 Jim Harbaugh
2010 Bill Belichick
2009 Marvin Lewis
2008 Mike Smith
2007 Bill Belichick

I don’t think that says much with regard to Tomlin. There’s a lot of coaches not on that list. And 2 of those years, we went to the super bowl.

I heard ALL of the same criticisms about Cowher until 2005. And now he’s revered as a great coach.

[NorthCoast]

Turnovers are mostly to blame. Coaches don't turn the ball over. Attempting to blame one person in a team sport isn't an accurate of fair assessment.

Only 3 teams are in the playoff race have a negative turnover ratio. The Steelers, Ravens, and Eagles. 2 of those 3 teams might not make the playoffs. The Steelers are fortunate to even have a chance to make the playoffs considering they are -10 in turnovers.

×100000.

Couple this with the Steelers SOS being the toughest since 2015. That year they had Shazier, Gay, Harrison, and Timmons on defense. That defense had 17 INTs. They have 4 this season. This defense is just not that good to consistently beat the better teams in the league.

And btw, even with that defense they ended the season at 10-6.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Is rather win a SB too.

But it's nice not to write off seasons early in the year. I'm also a Leafs fan and it really sucks to have multiple decades of futity (for every team in the city) .

I wonder if fans in Pittsburgh really appreciate that.

Edited to add: we've had a decade with 1 SB win 1 SB loss and been consistently competitive and people aren't satisfied. So I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be happy in your case either.

Rereading your post, you said "a superbowl or two". So that pretty much exactly what we have had... Except it's been almost 11 years instead of a literal decade.

Interestingly enough Northern, the whole Tomlin debate resembles the Raptors more than the Leafs. Duane Casey coached the Raptors from 2011-2018. He took over an awful team (22-60 the year before). From then on his regular season records were:
23-43 (strike year)
34-48
48-34
49-33
56-26
51-31
59-23

The last five years of his tenure the team finished top four in the east and made the playoffs with a first round home court advantage. Every year but one was an improvement over the last. The team finished first in the East once and once second. An amazing re-birth for a disastrous franchise.

The downside? The five playoff years gave the team a playoff record of 21-30. They made the East Finals once. They regularly struggled against teams beneath them in the standings and players who were dominant during the season underachieved in the playoffs.

Who pays the price for those losses? Players or coaches? The Raptors let Casey - a beloved fan favorite - go after last season. What was good enough for the team in the early years was no longer acceptable after 5 playoff seasons. They also shipped out one of the teams iconic players, who also was the top underachiever in the post-season - Demar Derozan.

In both cases I say there are valid arguments to keep the coach. The are also very legitimate reasons to let the coach go. The biggest difference is that Tomlin coaches for a team who believes that once you find the right coach you keep him as long as you can. Remember, Neither Noll nor Cowher were fired. When did they last push a HC out? I personally don't see them firing Tomlin over this season. Not because he is black, not because of the Rooney rule, but because the team just doesn't believe that firing the coach is the answer.

[steelz09]

https://youtu.be/ZAPM_Tcs2Bo

Yup. What most have been saying for quite awhile now. Thanks James for the brutal honesty and reality check some need. The truth hurts.

[Ernie]

Yep... and I think Shannon and Skip were on point with their analysis also.

[Steel Maniac]

Don’t worry, Oviedo will come here and dismiss what Harrison said too. Oviedo says he knows more then all.. even guys who’ve actually played. :rolleyes:

[Ernie]

I'd love to see them bring Don Martindale in for an interview.

[NorthCoast]

https://youtu.be/ZAPM_Tcs2Bo

Yup. What most have been saying for quite awhile now. Thanks James for the brutal honesty and reality check some need. The truth hurts.
Harrison is a disgruntled former employee.
Sharpe didn't play in the era of social media or free agency. Did Sharpe have a player lie to him about joining the team? Bell was the one bringing the media into his negotiations. .. rapping and all.
It's Interesting how these guys filter things.

[Northern_Blitz]

Harrison is a disgruntled former employee.
Sharpe didn't play in the era of social media or free agency. Did Sharpe have a player lie to him about joining the team? Bell was the one bringing the media into his negotiations. .. rapping and all.
It's Interesting how these guys filter things.

Their filter is "what can I say to maximize clicks?"

[steelz09]

Don’t worry, Oviedo will come here and dismiss what Harrison said too. Oviedo says he knows more then all.. even guys who’ve actually played. :rolleyes:

Wait, I thought Tomlin was the genius that unlocked Harrison's potential and made him millions? Now, it's Harrison that has it out for Tomlin?!? He can't possibly be telling the truth?!?? It's some kinda hidden agenda for Harrison!?!? His agenda is probably race-related. Oh, wait... Nevermind. That card can't be used in this case can it? Quick, let's switch gears and call it "disgruntled employee". Lol.

Harrison just said what most already know. Tomlin is a fraud that was gift wrapped a SB team and a HOF QB. We've invested a ton of high draft picks on defense and it still sucks yet Tomlin is a defensive minded coach. He's never built a secondary himself (his "specialty"), let alone an entire defense or team.

Tomlin is a FRAUD. A PHONEY!

https://www.creditrepair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/shutterstock_344117816-1.jpg

[Terrapin]

I'd love to see them bring Don Martindale in for an interview.

I'd take Wink Martindale over Tomlin