Fire Mike Tomlin

[Terrapin]

Enough is enough with this underachieving overrated loser. Absolutely 100% unacceptable to lose to a pitiful 2-10 team in a must win game. I don't give a flying **** about injuries either. Every team has them, and our putrid defense is healthy but still can't stop the worst offense in the league.

I know the nut-huggers will be along to post Tomlin's regular season records. If that makes you happy then good for you. But everyone else in the country knows this idiot should have been fired after the Denver playoff game.

And while you're at it, get this piece of **** Boswell off the team already. Eat the contract and be done with this clown

[Steel Maniac]

Enough is enough with this underachieving overrated loser. Absolutely 100% unacceptable to lose to a pitiful 2-10 team in a must win game. I don't give a flying **** about injuries either. Every team has them, and our putrid defense is healthy but still can't stop the worst offense in the league.

I know the nut-huggers will be along to post Tomlin's regular season records. If that makes you happy then good for you. But everyone else in the country knows this idiot should have been fired after the Denver playoff game.

And while you're at it, get this piece of **** Boswell off the team already. Eat the contract and be done with this clown

Nut-huggers??? Hahahahahahahaha. They’ll be along in a minute. We know who they are.

[Ernie]

I don't understand why we didn't call a timeout to kill the clock once they had it inside the 10 and ran the ball on 1st down

[SteelBucks]

I’ve never said it but I’m ready for a change. We know it will never happen.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

that was some brutal time management there at the end

might cost us the playoffs

[SteelCrazy]

Bad drafting on Defense is why we can't stop a college team from scoring. Can't miss on a 1st rounder. Burns and Jones...

[SteelBucks]

that was some brutal time management there at the end

might cost us the playoffs

It will cost us the playoffs. Wouldn’t be surprised if we drop the last 3.

[Terrapin]

I don't understand why we didn't call a timeout to kill the clock once they had it inside the 10 and ran the ball on 1st down

He is awful. I was screaming at the tv.

[pittpete]

Write it down
We will NOT win anything while Tomlin is here.
Enough already with this pretender.

[SteelBucks]

Team is poorly prepared and god help us with in game adjustments. (I’m furious right now)

[pfelix73]

Agreed. It's high time for a change! But... it will never happen. He's awful. I wanted him gone years ago. Hire Munchak.

[pittpete]

4th and a long 1 and cocky Tomlin instead of punting to pin the Raiders thumps his chest and gets stopped with a backup QB.
That IMO changed the game right there.
This team is in so much disserray from ST to defense to our pass happy OC down to not having the right FN cleats even though Switzer was slipping every where.
Boswell was slipping on his XP tries and the snaps were terrible.
Not winning anything with him, this team needs a massive shakeup

[Ernie]

agreed... terrible clock management at the end.. inexcusable

[skyhawk]

Putrid defense? You mean offense? Surely that was a typo ;)

[KYPITTFAN]

We will never win a SB again until we draft defensive backs that can play man to man and stop the zone D. QB's and rules are to good now day's to count on defenses to beat the top QB's, hell they can't even stop a bad QB that has 4 downs and must throw to win.

[Terrapin]

Putrid defense? You mean offense? Surely that was a typo ;)

Yes, putrid defense. To give up a TD on the opening drive was pathetic. To allow 2 long TD drives to end the game was pathetic. Mind you, this was against the worst team in the league.

[KYPITTFAN]

I think ownership is waiting until Ben is gone and then this team will be blown up. As long as Ben is playing we have a chance to win.

[Buzz]

I think ownership is waiting until Ben is gone and then this team will be blown up. As long as Ben is playing we have a chance to win.

When he's on the sideline and the coach chooses not to use him, we don't have much of a chance to win.

[pfelix73]

YES. Since Ben was ok to go back in when he did, why didn't he go in at least the series before???

[Ghost]

I’ve never said it but I’m ready for a change. We know it will never happen.

Thats where I am as well. Never said it but it’s time for a change. The head coach’s message is tired and stale. This team is perpetually unprepared. Season on the line against the worst team in the league and can’t win. Fire someone. Cut someone. Send some sort of message that this play is unacceptable.

Today was was a total embarrassment. And many coach’s decisions are moronic. And it’s happening every game.

[Eich]

I’m ready for a change.

Talk Tony Romo out of the booth. Don’t know if he can coach. But the dude knows football.

[pittpete]

Munchak is available.....;)

[Ernie]

yea I'm def goin with munchak next yr.. he won't be around long otherwise

[Furious]

The front office will never fire Tomlin. He's a coordinator not a HC. When you see someone like McVey (Rams) run around the sidelines. I've never seen an HC be both an Xs and Os cerebral genius and also a motivating player's coach at the same time. That team will host some Lombardi's.

Munchak might be convenient but his previous stint

[Furious]

As a head coach 22 - 26. Not exactly stellar.

[Ernie]

true.. but some guys are just better fits with different organizations.. he's definitely not gonna do any worse than MT at this point

[brothervad]

It's not going to happen but let's use another case study of a successful head coach who has been around for 13 seasons has a .618 win % (125-77-2) and 10-8 post season record with a SB victory. He had a HOF QB under his helm and hasn't been back to the Superbowl since their victory in 2011.

Now let's look at the Steelers...the current head coach has .657 winning % (123-64-1) a 8-7 post season record and is 1-1 in the Superbowl and hasn't won a Superbowl since 2010. This head coach too has a future HOF QB under his helm and has not been back to a Superbowl since their loss to the above team in 2011.

So in a nutshell...the Mike McCarthy can be fired but the Rooneys won't even think about discussing the termination of our current head coach.

Yet I got to tell you quite frankly the regular season winning % of a .049 and a almost .500 post season record shouldn't make you untouchable IMHO.

Brothervad

[squidkid]

ive been saying it for years, tomlin's post season success was with cowhers players and cowhers coaches. tomlin has a fine regular season record and he is able to win lots of games because he has the most talent. come playoff time, when coaching really matters, he is clueless

[Sugar]

The previous coach had 4 losing seasons before winning his first SB. When Tomlin has two of those, then we can (maybe) talk about moving on from him.

[squidkid]

The previous coach had 4 losing seasons before winning his first SB. When Tomlin has two of those, then we can (maybe) talk about moving on from him.


so your fine with what has been golng on here for the past decade?

[SteelBucks]

The previous coach had 4 losing seasons before winning his first SB. When Tomlin has two of those, then we can (maybe) talk about moving on from him.

You’ll see it soon enough when Ben retires. Take a snapshot of the 3Q, that’s the Steelers.

[Sugar]

I'd love to be winning SB's and such, but I don't view Tomlin as the problem. Heck, I think he's one of the best at what he does.

[squidkid]

I'd love to be winning SB's and such, but I don't view Tomlin as the problem. Heck, I think he's one of the best at what he does.


whats the problem then?

[SidSmythe]

whats the problem then?

Dying to hear this answer??

[squidkid]

Dying to hear this answer??

its got to be 53 palyers, colbert and the d and o coordinators

[pittpete]

Well of course its everyone but Tomlin....:rolleyes:

[SteelBucks]

If Tomlin lost the team then he must be replaced. End of story....

[pittpete]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47380431_2923583014334533_2835402860378718208_n.pn g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=e3b1030af65f616d37c183105a1a2d4f&oe=5C699A19

[SidSmythe]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47380431_2923583014334533_2835402860378718208_n.pn g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=e3b1030af65f616d37c183105a1a2d4f&oe=5C699A19

Ouch - on top of that he can't beat NE and made Blake Bortles look like a top tier NFL QB.

I challenge TOMLIN to completely take over the DEFENSE from this point forward to show us what's he's really capable of.

[SteelBucks]

From the Post-Gazette:

Mike Tomlin said Ben Roethlisberger was cleared medically at halftime to return for the second half, but he said he decided against it because the Steelers were “in the flow of the game.”


I’ve heard all I needed to hear from this genius. We’re fighting for a division and you sit the team MVP because the team is in the “flow of the game”? First of all what does that even mean? Second of all you put Ben back in immediately if he’s cleared medically. No questions asked.

[Starlifter]

From the Post-Gazette:

Mike Tomlin said Ben Roethlisberger was cleared medically at halftime to return for the second half, but he said he decided against it because the Steelers were “in the flow of the game.”


I’ve heard all I needed to hear from this genius. We’re fighting for a division and you sit the team MVP because the team is in the “flow of the game”? First of all what does that even mean? Second of all you put Ben back in immediately if he’s cleared medically. No questions asked.

insane right? if he was cleared to play, he should have been in there. to hold him 'just in case' was criminal. all that did was make sure ben had limited chances to win the game. that being said, ben DID win the game. it's just that his defense and special teams had a different idea......

[pfelix73]

I'l just throw this out there for chyts and giggles... W fans aren't the only ones who would like to see change, or see change as necessary now.

I happen to personally know 1 retired Steeler, who lives near me- why he lives here, is surprising but he does. He even works at a local grocery store, 3rd shift as a manager. I talked to him for a good 20 minutes following the Denver game. To my surprise, at that time, he was telling me that Tomlin should have been gone years ago. I was actually shocked to hear this, but throw in his 2 cents worth on this matter, and we even have some ex=players who were in the Steeler organization who thinks we need a new coach.

He was with the team during 1 of the SB wins and always has his ring with him... Yep- I've had it on my finger... so cool.

[brothervad]

The previous coach had 4 losing seasons before winning his first SB. When Tomlin has two of those, then we can (maybe) talk about moving on from him.

Sugar,

That is simply not the case...

McCarthy's record from 2006 - 2011


8-8
13-3
6-10
11-5
10-6 (Winner of SB45)

I will reiterate my point...Tomlin should not be considered untouchable at this point. At least the front office should be demanding changes in staffing and management approach.

brothervad

[NJ-STEELER]

I'd love to be winning SB's and such, but I don't view Tomlin as the problem. Heck, I think he's one of the best at what he does.


how do you explain the constant time mis management. today at the end of the game there was another example of it

[Ghost]

how do you explain the constant time mis management. today at the end of the game there was another example of it

Or his ability to make challenges. From 2015 - 2017 he was 3-12 (25%) with 2017 being 0-4.

[Sword]

good god....we need a shakeup....Green Bay wasn't afraid to do it..........I was done with Tomlin 4 years ago......

[Jooser]

From the Post-Gazette:

Mike Tomlin said Ben Roethlisberger was cleared medically at halftime to return for the second half, but he said he decided against it because the Steelers were “in the flow of the game.”


I’ve heard all I needed to hear from this genius. We’re fighting for a division and you sit the team MVP because the team is in the “flow of the game”? First of all what does that even mean? Second of all you put Ben back in immediately if he’s cleared medically. No questions asked.


This is asinine. This, to me, was a personal Tomlin dig at Ben for some of Ben's mistakes this season. This is as close to benching Big Ben as Tomlin would ever even dream of.

On the Green Bay/McCarthy debate, the one key difference here is that the Packers are a publicly owned franchise, whereas the Rooney's are still the majority stake-holders and ultimately calling the shots.

[Northern_Blitz]

that was some brutal time management there at the end

might cost us the playoffs

Firing Tomlin is obviously and emotionally driven over reaction.

But, Colbert should be pointing to games like this and banging the table to hire some kind or "quality control" coach who's only job is to time management. Maybe it's someone who only has important input 4 times a game, but those decisions are clearly critical.

[Mick'sTeam]

Firing Tomlin is obviously and emotionally driven over reaction.

But, Colbert should be pointing to games like this and banging the table to hire some kind or "quality control" coach who's only job is to time management. Maybe it's someone who only has important input 4 times a game, but those decisions are clearly critical.

I feel like the argument to hire another person to handle time management and/or challenge opportunities is proof that we need a new HC. Those tasks are part of the HC responsibilities, and if he isn't qualified to handle them, he isn't qualified to be a HC. Especially after this long. These are things he has NEVER been good at, and has proven he's incapable of improving upon them.

[Northern_Blitz]

Munchak is available.....;)

This is a great example of how people discount Tomlin's achievements because we are more aware of his mistakes than other coaches in the league. I think that Munchak is an awesome coach for teaching technique. But, I think it's a totally different skill set to be a head coach (my understanding is that HCs spend little time working with players on technique / skills development).

Tomlin's head coaching record:
Regular season: 123 - 64 (no seasons under 500)
Playoffs: 8 - 7 (0.533), 1 SB win, 2 SB appearances, 7 divisions titles.

Munchak's coaching record:
Regular season: 22 - 26 (0.458). Was only above 500 once.
Playoffs: Never made the playoffs. 0 SB wins. 0 SB appearances. 0 Division titles.

You could argue that Tomlin has an advantage here because Munchak only had 3 seasons.

Tomlin's first 3 seasons.
Regular Season: 31 - 17
Playoffs: 3 - 1. 1 SB win, 1 SB appearance, 2 division titles.

We've had an insanely good run with Tomlin at the helm. I don't see the value in replacing him with someone who (1) doesn't seem to have done a good job as a head coach and (2) doesn't seem to want to be a head coach.
But, this team isn't as good as it has been in the past. We have talent at the "skill" positions on O and on the O line. But, our D is not good and lacks elite talent.

I think that lack of elite defensive talent / playmakers and offensive turnovers are the reason that this team won't win the SB this year. Can someone explain to me how firing Tomlin would fix these problems?

I guess I think that Tomlin is one of the things that is reliably good on this team (despite mistakes with clock management that we should hire someone to help fix).

[Northern_Blitz]

From the Post-Gazette:

Mike Tomlin said Ben Roethlisberger was cleared medically at halftime to return for the second half, but he said he decided against it because the Steelers were “in the flow of the game.”


I’ve heard all I needed to hear from this genius. We’re fighting for a division and you sit the team MVP because the team is in the “flow of the game”? First of all what does that even mean? Second of all you put Ben back in immediately if he’s cleared medically. No questions asked.

I think that throughout his career Tomlin has consistently shouldered the blame in press conferences.

That is what a good leader should do.

I would suggest that we don't know whether keeping Ben out was a Tomlin decision or a Ben decision.

[Northern_Blitz]

I feel like the argument to hire another person to handle time management and/or challenge opportunities is proof that we need a new HC. Those tasks are part of the HC responsibilities, and if he isn't qualified to handle them, he isn't qualified to be a HC. Especially after this long. These are things he has NEVER been good at, and has proven he's incapable of improving upon them.

I don't watch many other NFL games anymore because I have young kids and I spend more time with them.

But back when I had the ticket and used to spend all day Sunday watching games, my sense was that most (if not all) HCs were bad at clock management. So, I guess I believe that most if not all coaches are bad at clock management, but Tomlin seems worse to use because we see all of his warts.

But, I think that the "perfect coach" would see this and welcome the addition of a staff member like this. But, I think Tomlin has said in PCs before that he doesn't think it would add value.

I don't think that Tomlin is a perfect coach. But, I do think that he's better than something like 95% of HCs and that replacing him is almost certain to make the team worse.

[Mick'sTeam]

I don't watch many other NFL games anymore because I have young kids and I spend more time with them.

But back when I had the ticket and used to spend all day Sunday watching games, my sense was that most (if not all) HCs were bad at clock management. So, I guess I believe that most if not all coaches are bad at clock management, but Tomlin seems worse to use because we see all of his warts.

But, I think that the "perfect coach" would see this and welcome the addition of a staff member like this. But, I think Tomlin has said in PCs before that he doesn't think it would add value.

I'm with you - I watch the Steelers but don't have time to watch other games. I just don't understand how we seem so bad at clock management. If he was busy calling offensive or defensive plays, I may be able to understand it - he could be distracted by that. But Tomlin isn't doing that. He's just cheerleading. So understanding clock management and when to or not to challenge should be a primary job for him.

[Terrapin]

This is a great example of how people discount Tomlin's achievements because we are more aware of his mistakes than other coaches in the league. I think that Munchak is an awesome coach for teaching technique. But, I think it's a totally different skill set to be a head coach (my understanding is that HCs spend little time working with players on technique / skills development).

Tomlin's head coaching record:
Regular season: 123 - 64 (no seasons under 500)
Playoffs: 8 - 7 (0.533), 1 SB win, 2 SB appearances, 7 divisions titles.

Munchak's coaching record:
Regular season: 22 - 26 (0.458). Was only above 500 once.
Playoffs: Never made the playoffs. 0 SB wins. 0 SB appearances. 0 Division titles.

You could argue that Tomlin has an advantage here because Munchak only had 3 seasons.

Tomlin's first 3 seasons.
Regular Season: 31 - 17
Playoffs: 3 - 1. 1 SB win, 1 SB appearance, 2 division titles.

We've had an insanely good run with Tomlin at the helm. I don't see the value in replacing him with someone who (1) doesn't seem to have done a good job as a head coach and (2) doesn't seem to want to be a head coach.
But, this team isn't as good as it has been in the past. We have talent at the "skill" positions on O and on the O line. But, our D is not good and lacks elite talent.

I think that lack of elite defensive talent / playmakers and offensive turnovers are the reason that this team won't win the SB this year. Can someone explain to me how firing Tomlin would fix these problems?

I guess I think that Tomlin is one of the things that is reliably good on this team (despite mistakes with clock management that we should hire someone to help fix).

Yep, keep posting regular season records. Nobody cares anymore. Keep in mind, we play in one of the worst divisions in football every year. We've won exactly 3 playoff games since 2010. Those wins were against Cincy, Miami, and KC.

In those 8 years, players have changed. Coordinators have changed. What has been consistent? Mike Tomlin. What you call 'reliably good', I call reliably bad. Why? Because it's the same **** every single year. Drama, playing down to competition, humiliating losses, not being prepared, terrible clock management, terrible challenges, etc, etc, etc. Again, reliably bad.

But keep showing us the regular season winning percentage to make yourself feel better.

[Ghost]

Actually we know exactly who made the decision -

Roethlisberger "could have come in a series or so sooner but we were in a rhythm and flow of the game," Tomlin said, per Vic Tafur of the Athletic. And when Ben was asked the question about coming in his response was, "Ask Coach".

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Actually we know exactly who made the decision -

Roethlisberger "could have come in a series or so sooner but we were in a rhythm and flow of the game," Tomlin said, per Vic Tafur of the Athletic. And when Ben was asked the question about coming in his response was, "Ask Coach". f The Athletic.
And this is the problem. As a guy who usually supports Tomlin, I was baffled by the decision to not bring Ben in sooner and put this game away. It would be one thing if the team were up 2 scores, but, the arrogance to think that another professional team couldn't score AND the arrogance to think, "we'll, I could bring Ben in at any time and get a TD" if they score was just a bad decision. I sat and watched Ben squirm on the sidelines KNOWING that as soon as the Raiders scored he'd come in. IMO, you bring him in and do that drive sooner, go up by 11, THEN bring Dobbs back in. It changes the flow of the game (and the mindset of the trailing team).

This one's squarely on Tomlin's shoulders.

[squidkid]

I don't watch many other NFL games anymore because I have young kids and I spend more time with them.

But back when I had the ticket and used to spend all day Sunday watching games, my sense was that most (if not all) HCs were bad at clock management. So, I guess I believe that most if not all coaches are bad at clock management, but Tomlin seems worse to use because we see all of his warts.

But, I think that the "perfect coach" would see this and welcome the addition of a staff member like this. But, I think Tomlin has said in PCs before that he doesn't think it would add value.

I don't think that Tomlin is a perfect coach. But, I do think that he's better than something like 95% of HCs and that replacing him is almost certain to make the team worse.


worse than what?

[Northern_Blitz]

[/B]


worse than what?

I think it would make the process we use to prepare for games worse. I think that would mean that in the long run we would expect to lose more than we have over Tomlin's career.

But, I think that this is part of the problem. Tomlin's career results are exceptional so the expectations are unreasonably high.

So, keeping Tomlin also means that it's likely that we will do worse than we have throughout Tomlin's career because part of our success is based on luck and sometime the breaks go against you.

So maybe the best way to thing about it is that I think that a potential near future with Tomlin as coach will lead to more wins than a potential near future with a replacement. Unless BB is somehow fired by NE...maybe after an overly emotional loss to Miami. In that case, I would park a truck of money on Bill's driveway and fire Tomin if he agreed.

If we did replace Tomlin (which we'll do eventually), I hope that we would follow our previous pattern and go with an up and coming coach (like Tomlin and Cowher) instead of someone that was demonstrably bad at it (like Munchak).

[Northern_Blitz]

Actually we know exactly who made the decision -

Roethlisberger "could have come in a series or so sooner but we were in a rhythm and flow of the game," Tomlin said, per Vic Tafur of the Athletic. And when Ben was asked the question about coming in his response was, "Ask Coach".

I think I would argue that we know exactly what they said in interviews, not that we know what actually happened.

I think this follows previous patterns where Tomlin takes blame when speaking publicly (and Ben arguably doesn't). I think good coaches shield their players like this, but I don't know if that's what's happening here.

I find it impossible to believe that Tomlin (or anyone) would have thought we had a better chance to win by playing Dobbs vs. Ben.

[squidkid]

IMO, this organization would continue to be successful in the regular season almost regardless of who is the head coach.
im more concerned about the post season and its proven that tomlin cant handle that situation
im not afraid of change

[squidkid]

I think I would argue that we know exactly what they said in interviews, not that we know what actually happened.

I think this follows previous patterns where Tomlin takes blame when speaking publicly (and Ben arguably doesn't). I think good coaches shield their players like this, but I don't know if that's what's happening here.

I find it impossible to believe that Tomlin (or anyone) would have thought we had a better chance to win by playing Dobbs vs. Ben.


what?
doesnt ben usually take some blame but tomlin never does?

[Northern_Blitz]

what?
doesnt ben usually take some blame but tomlin never does?

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my perception. I can't remember Tomin calling out players as the reason for losing a game. He'll usually say something that doesn't mean anything like "we weren't up to the standard" or whatever.

After the loss to Denver, Ben was talking about how the game losing int was on AB and not him.

After the loss to the Pats last year:
Ben: "“There were missed opportunities whether we didn’t execute well enough, whether plays weren’t made by me or other guys. At times it felt like maybe it was too big for some of the young guys.” "

I guess he said "by me or other guys" in there. But, the second sentence makes it pretty clear who he thinks made the mistakes (even though the mistake he made on the last pick was huge).

I also feel like Ben was pretty passive-aggressive with Haley even thought the O was doing well. Without watching the interview myself, I feel like Ben saying "ask coach" feels a lot like that.

But, he also said this after the Jags game
Ben: “I feel like I let a lot of people down,” he said. “And I’ll take it all on myself..."

So maybe I'm being too hard on Ben here.

[Starlifter]

can't wait to hear what Ben says tomorrow.

after all, he earned the right.........:HeadBanger:HeadBanger

[squidkid]

can't wait to hear what Ben says tomorrow.

after all, he earned the right.........:HeadBanger:HeadBanger


this week he'll actually be deserving

[Ghost]

I think I would argue that we know exactly what they said in interviews, not that we know what actually happened.

I think this follows previous patterns where Tomlin takes blame when speaking publicly (and Ben arguably doesn't). I think good coaches shield their players like this, but I don't know if that's what's happening here.

I find it impossible to believe that Tomlin (or anyone) would have thought we had a better chance to win by playing Dobbs vs. Ben.

It's been reported by many outlets, both locally and nationally, the medical staff cleared Ben to play by the 3rd Q. That's on the coach 100%. It's his job to tell a player to strap up the helmet and get in there and give it a go. Especially when Dobbs couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. You put Ben out there until he can't raise his arm and throw the ball and then bring Dobbs back in if you are out of options. It's astounding to me you don't think that's the responsibility of the head coach.

[Oviedo]

Irrational hysterics...again

[Buzz]

It's been reported by many outlets, both locally and nationally, the medical staff cleared Ben to play by the 3rd Q. That's on the coach 100%. It's his job to tell a player to strap up the helmet and get in there and give it a go. Especially when Dobbs couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. You put Ben out there until he can't raise his arm and throw the ball and then bring Dobbs back in if you are out of options. It's astounding to me you don't think that's the responsibility of the head coach.

$$$$
Ben was back, ready to go in. This was on Tomlin. He told us --"we were in the flow of the game." Translation: he was coaching by his gut again. When it comes to in-game decisions and clock management, that often doesn't turn out well.

[Buzz]

Irrational hysterics...again

Yeah, pretty irrational for someone to be upset about this team, with all its potential, going in the crapper for the past month. Everyone should just calm down and be happy we've never had a losing season under Tomlin. Quit hoping for Super Bowls and be content to be better than the Browns. (Well, the Browns could actually finish ahead of us this year, so we might need to find another scrub team to compare to.)

[steelz09]

Sit back and think about Tomlin's statement....

The QB position is the most important position on the field and our HC's answer for not playing his HOF QB in a critical game was "we were in the flow of the game".

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What "flow"? Ben can roll out of bed and play better than Dobbs was playing. He didn't want to disprut the flow? Really? What does that even mean?

[Steel Maniac]

It's been reported by many outlets, both locally and nationally, the medical staff cleared Ben to play by the 3rd Q. That's on the coach 100%. It's his job to tell a player to strap up the helmet and get in there and give it a go. Especially when Dobbs couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. You put Ben out there until he can't raise his arm and throw the ball and then bring Dobbs back in if you are out of options. It's astounding to me you don't think that's the responsibility of the head coach.

100% on Tomlin. Period.

[Steel Maniac]

Sit back and think about Tomlin's statement....

The QB position is the most important position on the field and our HC's answer for not playing his HOF QB in a critical game was "we were in the flow of the game".

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What "flow"? Ben can roll out of bed and play better than Dobbs was playing. He didn't want to disprut the flow? Really? What does that even mean?

Exactly. Tomlin is a bum. But even now, their making excuses why this season is a lost season because they know their going to get spanked by the Pats and Saints.

[Steel Maniac]

Irrational hysterics...again

Just wanted to capture this for the future.

[steelz09]

Yeah, pretty irrational for someone to be upset about this team, with all its potential, going in the crapper for the past month. Everyone should just calm down and be happy we've never had a losing season under Tomlin. Quit hoping for Super Bowls and be content to be better than the Browns. (Well, the Browns could actually finish ahead of us this year, so we might need to find another scrub team to compare to.)

It's not Tomlin's fault.

Horrific time management and challenges

Discipline

Poor secondary draft picks and player development (include LBs). Our HC's "specialty".

Communication issues

Poor defense. The secondary in particular for years. Our HC's "specialty".

Little to no in-game adjustments (just ask Rivers)

Playing down to competition for years

Poor preparation

If none of that falls on the HC then I seriously question how much responsibility the HC even has outside of being a puppet and a talking head for press conferences.

[squidkid]

i think the fans that support and defend tomlin are the same people that wont divorce their wives even tho they cheat on them.
their mindset is, 'oh well, i probably did something to make her cheat and she is kinda good looking. besides, i might not find someone else to marry'.
i know a few of guys like that. i dont agree with it, but i guess i can sorta understand their point. scared and set in their way. comfortable, good enough etc.

[Steel Maniac]

Terrepin called the Tomlin lovers " nut-huggers". LMFAO. Two of them are riding around each thread posting Tomlin's regular season record. Hahahahaahahahaha.

I'm waiting on the 3rd one right now. He'll be in sometime today. He likes to post late for dramatic effect. Hahahahahahahahahaah

[Steel Maniac]

i think the fans that support and defend tomlin are the same people that wont divorce their wives even tho they cheat on them.
their mindset is, 'oh well, i probably did something to make her cheat and she is kinda good looking. besides, i might not find someone else to marry'.
i know a few of guys like that. i dont agree with it, but i guess i can sorta understand their point. scared and set in their way. comfortable, good enough etc.

Oh yeah. With irrational statements like, " Where would we get our next coach?" WHAT??? We get our next coach just like the Rams, Bears, Colts found their next coach. That's weak talk to me when you make a lame reason of, " Where would we get our next coach?" :rolleyes:

[Steel Maniac]

It's not Tomlin's fault.

Horrific time management and challenges

Discipline

Poor secondary draft picks and player development (include LBs). Our HC's "specialty".

Communication issues

Poor defense. The secondary in particular for years. Our HC's "specialty".

Little to no in-game adjustments (just ask Rivers)

Playing down to competition for years

Poor preparation

If none of that falls on the HC then I seriously question how much responsibility the HC even has outside of being a puppet and a talking head for press conferences.



They sould like 1990 dolphins fans still wanting to hand on to Shula for what he did in the early 1970's.

[Terrapin]

It's not Tomlin's fault.

Horrific time management and challenges

Discipline

Poor secondary draft picks and player development (include LBs). Our HC's "specialty".

Communication issues

Poor defense. The secondary in particular for years. Our HC's "specialty".

Little to no in-game adjustments (just ask Rivers)

Playing down to competition for years

Poor preparation

If none of that falls on the HC then I seriously question how much responsibility the HC even has outside of being a puppet and a talking head for press conferences.

He comes up with some cool quips. That's all that really matters

[Steel Maniac]

With the funnies one being, " we will defend every blade of grass" LMFAO!!!!

[Terrapin]

Sit back and think about Tomlin's statement....

The QB position is the most important position on the field and our HC's answer for not playing his HOF QB in a critical game was "we were in the flow of the game".

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What "flow"? Ben can roll out of bed and play better than Dobbs was playing. He didn't want to disprut the flow? Really? What does that even mean?

If Dobbs was playing even remotely well, I could see having Ben sit. But that was only one of Tomlin's colossal F ups this game.

Not having the team ready (as usual), horrible clock management at the end, and making zero adjustments all game long are just as big

[steelz09]

Isn't it a bit strange that Tomlin is supposed to secondary guru but our secondary has been the laughing stock of the league for years?

Our secondary is plagued by:
Poor communication
Terrible ability to identify and draft talent
Inability to develop players
Terrible technique and tackling

What if Sean McVay and Sean Payton (both offensive gurus) had an offense as bad as our defense for several consecutive years? They would be fired.

Someone that has a particular "specialty" better be well skilled in that area of expertise or they are a fraud.

[Northern_Blitz]

Oh yeah. With irrational statements like, " Where would we get our next coach?" WHAT??? We get our next coach just like the Rams, Bears, Colts found their next coach. That's weak talk to me when you make a lame reason of, " Where would we get our next coach?" :rolleyes:

I'd love to hear rational evidenced based arguments for how getting a new coach makes the Steeles better.

Instead, it sounds more like entitled kids complaining they only got most of they toys on their Christmas list.

I think it's pretty clear that Tomlin is one of the best in the league (without being the best). Those that disagree seem to want to disregard any data to the contrary (record doesn't matter, SB win doesn't count, etc).

I'm glad that the Steelers don't make emotional knee jerk reactions

[brothervad]

Gonna play devil's advocate here...

So those of you who think Tomlin is not the problem let's hear your take on a solution

How do you fix a defense that has not been fixed since Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Lawrence Timmons, James Farrior have parted ways?
How do you trust a head coach who has not shown the ability to hire talent on his coaching staff to assist in gameplanning to account for the defensive shortcomings mentioned above?
How do you improve the current head coaches ability to evaluate defensive talent that has been unable to replace the defenders above. Let's be clear I didn't expect him to replace it with HOF's such as some of the above will be, but the replacements in the secondary haven't even been serviceable (note on my draft thread since 2011 40% of all defensive selections are out of the league with highest rate being DB's at 23%)?
How do you stop the drama? You know the Lev Bell, Ben's sniping on his radio program, AB's temper tantrums
How do you solve the gameday/time management issues? Mr. Ego says he doesn't want to waste money on an expert, yet the data show he sucks and frankly it has caused issues at the end of a game where he is out of time outs and his D has once again given up the lead or tie?

Please don't give me the bad luck routine both the Seahawks and Ravens have rebuilt their defenses...fact is the Seahawks did it within on season. The Ravens were able to rebuild having the similar aging issues that the Steelers had (Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, etc., etc.).

So what is it? Get rid of Butler? Porter? Both?
Do the Steelers replace Colbert?
Do the Steelers do nothing because everything is working and it's just the bounce of the ball?


I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I am going to be pretty straight here. A lot of you on the pro Tomlin side fixate on his .500 and above record. I think it's a fair statement on face value. However, I think it's also a bit of a menagerie. I think there is another thread titled "Life without Ben". Ask/answer yourself this question...what would this team's record be with a journeyman QB or Landry Jones?

I think a lot of the shortcomings of this head coach are being masked by the play of a future HOF QB. You may not agree and that is fine but I will venture to say a lot of those last minute wins are all Ben and none of Tomlin. So I will stick by my statement that there is somewhere between 2-4 games a season that Ben's greatness will win for you. Conversely, I think there are 1-2 games a year he probably loses but that is the problem with not having a D rebuilt to have his back. He can no longer have that lousy game in which the D says "Got your back Ben we will shut this down for you."

Ultimately, the guy in charge needs to take a hit.

Someone responded that the difference between McCarthy and Tomlin is that the Packers are publicly owned. I agree with that statement. Because results matter in Green Bay. In Pittsburgh the Rooneys are more enamored with their legend status than with results. Don't get me wrong they do have expectations, it's just secondary to their legendary/mythical status of continuity.

brothervad

[steelz09]

I'd love to hear rational evidenced based arguments for how getting a new coach makes the Steeles better.

Instead, it sounds more like entitled kids complaining they only got most of they toys on their Christmas list.

I think it's pretty clear that Tomlin is one of the best in the league (without being the best). Those that disagree seem to want to disregard any data to the contrary (record doesn't matter, SB win doesn't count, etc).

I'm glad that the Steelers don't make emotional knee jerk reactions

Knee jerk? He's been the coach for how many years?

I'll say this... We will never win a SB again with Tomlin as our HC. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

[Northern_Blitz]

Isn't it a bit strange that Tomlin is supposed to secondary guru but our secondary has been the laughing stock of the league for years?

Our secondary is plagued by:
Poor communication
Terrible ability to identify and draft talent
Inability to develop players
Terrible technique and tackling

What if Sean McVay and Sean Payton (both offensive gurus) had an offense as bad as our defense for several consecutive years? They would be fired.

Someone that has a particular "specialty" better be well skilled in that area of expertise or they are a fraud.

Why do you think Tomlin is a defensive guru. Wasn't he a WR coach, and a WR in college? Then he coached on D and became more well rounded.

He's a different kind of coach than McVay and Payton.

Can you explain why Payton is great and Tomlin sucks when they've basically had the same career?

I think the difference is that we see all of Tomlin's mistakes and few of Payton's.

[squidkid]

I'd love to hear rational evidenced based arguments for how getting a new coach makes the Steeles better.

Instead, it sounds more like entitled kids complaining they only got most of they toys on their Christmas list.

I think it's pretty clear that Tomlin is one of the best in the league (without being the best). Those that disagree seem to want to disregard any data to the contrary (record doesn't matter, SB win doesn't count, etc).

I'm glad that the Steelers don't make emotional knee jerk reactions


why dont you give us a rational argument of how keeping tomlin will make us better?

[Sword]

Gonna play devil's advocate here...

So those of you who think Tomlin is not the problem let's hear your take on a solution

How do you fix a defense that has not been fixed since Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Lawrence Timmons, James Farrior have parted ways?
How do you trust a head coach who has not shown the ability to hire talent on his coaching staff to assist in gameplanning to account for the defensive shortcomings mentioned above?
How do you improve the current head coaches ability to evaluate defensive talent that has been unable to replace the defenders above. Let's be clear I didn't expect him to replace it with HOF's such as some of the above will be, but the replacements in the secondary haven't even been serviceable (note on my draft thread since 2011 40% of all defensive selections are out of the league with highest rate being DB's at 23%)?
How do you stop the drama? You know the Lev Bell, Ben's sniping on his radio program, AB's temper tantrums
How do you solve the gameday/time management issues? Mr. Ego says he doesn't want to waste money on an expert, yet the data show he sucks and frankly it has caused issues at the end of a game where he is out of time outs and his D has once again given up the lead or tie?

Please don't give me the bad luck routine both the Seahawks and Ravens have rebuilt their defenses...fact is the Seahawks did it within on season. The Ravens were able to rebuild having the similar aging issues that the Steelers had (Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, etc., etc.).

So what is it? Get rid of Butler? Porter? Both?
Do the Steelers replace Colbert?
Do the Steelers do nothing because everything is working and it's just the bounce of the ball?


I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I am going to be pretty straight here. A lot of you on the pro Tomlin side fixate on his .500 and above record. I think it's a fair statement on face value. However, I think it's also a bit of a menagerie. I think there is another thread titled "Life without Ben". Ask/answer yourself this question...what would this team's record be with a journeyman QB or Landry Jones?

I think a lot of the shortcomings of this head coach are being masked by the play of a future HOF QB. You may not agree and that is fine but I will venture to say a lot of those last minute wins are all Ben and none of Tomlin. So I will stick by my statement that there is somewhere between 2-4 games a season that Ben's greatness will win for you. Conversely, I think there are 1-2 games a year he probably loses but that is the problem with not having a D rebuilt to have his back. He can no longer have that lousy game in which the D says "Got your back Ben we will shut this down for you."

Ultimately, the guy in charge needs to take a hit.

Someone responded that the difference between McCarthy and Tomlin is that the Packers are publicly owned. I agree with that statement. Because results matter in Green Bay. In Pittsburgh the Rooneys are more enamored with their legend status than with results. Don't get me wrong they do have expectations, it's just secondary to their legendary/mythical status of continuity.

brothervad

$$$$$$$$$^^^^^^^^

[Steel Maniac]

Gonna play devil's advocate here...

So those of you who think Tomlin is not the problem let's hear your take on a solution

How do you fix a defense that has not been fixed since Ike Taylor, Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Lawrence Timmons, James Farrior have parted ways?
How do you trust a head coach who has not shown the ability to hire talent on his coaching staff to assist in gameplanning to account for the defensive shortcomings mentioned above?
How do you improve the current head coaches ability to evaluate defensive talent that has been unable to replace the defenders above. Let's be clear I didn't expect him to replace it with HOF's such as some of the above will be, but the replacements in the secondary haven't even been serviceable (note on my draft thread since 2011 40% of all defensive selections are out of the league with highest rate being DB's at 23%)?
How do you stop the drama? You know the Lev Bell, Ben's sniping on his radio program, AB's temper tantrums
How do you solve the gameday/time management issues? Mr. Ego says he doesn't want to waste money on an expert, yet the data show he sucks and frankly it has caused issues at the end of a game where he is out of time outs and his D has once again given up the lead or tie?

Please don't give me the bad luck routine both the Seahawks and Ravens have rebuilt their defenses...fact is the Seahawks did it within on season. The Ravens were able to rebuild having the similar aging issues that the Steelers had (Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, etc., etc.).

So what is it? Get rid of Butler? Porter? Both?
Do the Steelers replace Colbert?
Do the Steelers do nothing because everything is working and it's just the bounce of the ball?


I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I am going to be pretty straight here. A lot of you on the pro Tomlin side fixate on his .500 and above record. I think it's a fair statement on face value. However, I think it's also a bit of a menagerie. I think there is another thread titled "Life without Ben". Ask/answer yourself this question...what would this team's record be with a journeyman QB or Landry Jones?

I think a lot of the shortcomings of this head coach are being masked by the play of a future HOF QB. You may not agree and that is fine but I will venture to say a lot of those last minute wins are all Ben and none of Tomlin. So I will stick by my statement that there is somewhere between 2-4 games a season that Ben's greatness will win for you. Conversely, I think there are 1-2 games a year he probably loses but that is the problem with not having a D rebuilt to have his back. He can no longer have that lousy game in which the D says "Got your back Ben we will shut this down for you."

Ultimately, the guy in charge needs to take a hit.

Someone responded that the difference between McCarthy and Tomlin is that the Packers are publicly owned. I agree with that statement. Because results matter in Green Bay. In Pittsburgh the Rooneys are more enamored with their legend status than with results. Don't get me wrong they do have expectations, it's just secondary to their legendary/mythical status of continuity.

brothervad

Boom.............................

[Northern_Blitz]

why dont you give us a rational argument of how keeping tomlin will make us better?

He won't make us better. Keeping Tomlin is like the control in an experiment.

He's very good but not perfect. But the evidence suggests that keeping him is likely better than having anyone not named Bill B.

I've made several posts showing how Tomlin has fared as well or better than almost all other coaches with "franchise QBs" in the regular and post seasons. The exceptions are the Pats (the best team ever in the NFL) and the Seahawks (all of their data was with a fQB on a rookie deal). So, I think Tomlin is as good or better than all coaches except BB. If we want better results than we get, I think we need to get a franchise QB on a rookie deal (which is not easy to do).

We have some terrible games under Tomlin. Every other coach also loses terrible games (see NE games played 8n Miami). But, focusing on the negative outcomes and neglecting the positive ones is a recipe for cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Steel Maniac]

I'd love to hear rational evidenced based arguments for how getting a new coach makes the Steeles better.

Instead, it sounds more like entitled kids complaining they only got most of they toys on their Christmas list.

I think it's pretty clear that Tomlin is one of the best in the league (without being the best). Those that disagree seem to want to disregard any data to the contrary (record doesn't matter, SB win doesn't count, etc).

I'm glad that the Steelers don't make emotional knee jerk reactions

And how is keeping Tomlin going to get us better when we've been in a slow decent for the last 3 years??

Our feelings on Tomlin are based on 5 plus years of underachievement. Not just yesterday's game. Stop coming in and trying to discredit people like their basing their feelings on Tomlin on one game. How disrespectful is that.

[steelz09]

Why do you think Tomlin is a defensive guru. Wasn't he a WR coach, and a WR in college? Then he coached on D and became more well rounded.

He's a different kind of coach than McVay and Payton.

Can you explain why Payton is great and Tomlin sucks when they've basically had the same career?

I think the difference is that we see all of Tomlin's mistakes and few of Payton's.

Not true. Ive had the Sunday ticket for as long as I can remember. I watch many games, not just the Steelers so please spare me the "we only see Tomlin's" mistakes. That might be true for some but definitely not me.

Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guru. That is his NFL coaching experience which led to him being hired as a HC. Arguing that is like arguing that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.

Everyone should watch today's ESPN First take coverage on yesterday's game.

[Northern_Blitz]

Knee jerk? He's been the coach for how many years?

I'll say this... We will never win a SB again with Tomlin as our HC. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Betting not to win the SB is a super safe bet. You would only expect it to happen once every 32 years or so.

[Steel Maniac]

He won't make us better. Keeping Tomlin is like the control in an experiment.

He's very good but not perfect. But the evidence suggests that keeping him is likely better than having anyone not named Bill B.

That is utter poppycock. Evidence doesn't suggest anything of the sort. That's made up stuff in your mind. We are descending (trending down) and have been doing so at a rapid pace making this the third season in a row.

1. 2016-- eliminated in the AFC championship
2. 2017--eliminated in the simi finals
3. 2018--already worse then the previous two years mentioned

That's fact!



That's trending down!!!

[Northern_Blitz]

Not true. Ive had the Sunday ticket for as long as I can remember. I watch many games, not just the Steelers so please spare me the "we only see Tomlin's" mistakes. That might be true for some but definitely not me.

Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guru. That is his NFL coaching experience which led to him being hired as a HC. Arguing that is like arguing that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.

Everyone should watch today's ESPN First take coverage on yesterday's game.


And why do you view two guys with basically the same results so differently?

[steelz09]

https://youtu.be/KK_mT2iUnzA

[Steel Maniac]

Not true. Ive had the Sunday ticket for as long as I can remember. I watch many games, not just the Steelers so please spare me the "we only see Tomlin's" mistakes. That might be true for some but definitely not me.

Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guru. That is his NFL coaching experience which led to him being hired as a HC. Arguing that is like arguing that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.

Everyone should watch today's ESPN First take coverage on yesterday's game.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tomlin came into the head coaching job as a secondary/guru. Yet, he's never drafted or coached up any secondary player since he's been hired. Never.

[steelz09]

I didn't say Payton is a great coach. You did.

I said that if you have a proclaimed "specialty" then clearly that specialty/expertise should be evident over the years.

Payton's specialty is offense and over the years, it's been evident that the Saints have had a very diverse / high powered offense but his defenses havent been very good. That's not shocking

What is shocking is that our HC is supposed to be a defensive guru (particularly the secondary) yet our secondary has been completely inept after he lost the players that were gift wrapped for him.

Would you hire a contractor that sucks at their "speciality"?

You sound like you would hire an electrician that has a history of bad wiring causing houses to burn down.

[Northern_Blitz]

And how is keeping Tomlin going to get us better when we've been in a slow decent for the last 3 years??

Our feelings on Tomlin are based on 5 plus years of underachievement. Not just yesterday's game. Stop coming in and trying to discredit people like their basing their feelings on Tomlin on one game. How disrespectful is that.

Steelers results in the last 4 years
13 wins. Bye. Loss in Divisional round.
11 wins. Loss in AFCC
10 wins. Loss in Divisional round
11 wins. Loss in WC game.

So your definition of abject failure is making it past the WC game in the playoffs in 3 of 4 years.

How are you going to be happy with any coach (or any team)?

Can you not see how it sounding like whining?

[Northern_Blitz]

That is utter poppycock. Evidence doesn't suggest anything of the sort. That's made up stuff in your mind. We are descending (trending down) and have been doing so at a rapid pace making this the third season in a row.

1. 2016-- eliminated in the AFC championship
2. 2017--eliminated in the simi finals
3. 2018--already worse then the previous two years mentioned

That's fact!



That's trending down!!!

I'm confused.

This sounds like you doing a parody of yourself.

This year looks like it will be bad.

The previous 4 years were very good.

[Sword]

internet blowing up over fire Tomlin!!! This is gaining traction.....weather Rooney's want it or not it's a Storm that is here.....
Yes we should fire him and Butler and shake up this team..........

[brothervad]

Northern Blitz,

Perhaps my thread was too long, but you have yet to address what you suggest the Steelers should do to correct the issue?

Are you suggesting everything is alright and it's a bad bounce here or there? Basically there is nothing the Steelers need to do.

I hate to say this but time is running out. Ben is 36 and has a lot of mileage on him. Perhaps he still has 1 to 2 seasons of excellent play left, but perhaps he is closer to the cliff that Eli Manning finds himself over today.

People have been spoiled here since 2004. Hell some don't remember the QB hell from Bradshaw to Ben Rothlisberger but let me remind you here and now:

1983
Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
David Woodley
Scott Campbell
Bubby Brister
Steve Bono
Todd Blackledge
Neil O'Donnell
Jim Miller
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Kent Graham
Tommy Maddox
2003

And then 2004 the drought ended...with Big Ben. My point is it took 20 years to find a HOF QB. The window is closing. There are no guarantees of getting another franchise QB. Changes need to be made if the Steelers want to have a shot of going back to the Super Bowl.

So what say you NB?

thanks,
brothervad

[AzStillers1989]

https://youtu.be/KK_mT2iUnzA
Misery love company and I sure am feeling lonely. So I thoroughly enjoyed that and I usually can’t stand stephen a.

[Steel Maniac]

Northern Blitz,

Perhaps my thread was too long, but you have yet to address what you suggest the Steelers should do to correct the issue?

Are you suggesting everything is alright and it's a bad bounce here or there? Basically there is nothing the Steelers need to do.

I hate to say this but time is running out. Ben is 36 and has a lot of mileage on him. Perhaps he still has 1 to 2 seasons of excellent play left, but perhaps he is closer to the cliff that Eli Manning finds himself over today.

People have been spoiled here since 2004. Hell some don't remember the QB hell from Bradshaw to Ben Rothlisberger but let me remind you here and now:

1983
Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
David Woodley
Scott Campbell
Bubby Brister
Steve Bono
Todd Blackledge
Neil O'Donnell
Jim Miller
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Kent Graham
Tommy Maddox
2003

And then 2004 the drought ended...with Big Ben. My point is it took 20 years to find a HOF QB. The window is closing. There are no guarantees of getting another franchise QB. Changes need to be made if the Steelers want to have a shot of going back to the Super Bowl.

So what say you NB?

thanks,
brothervad

Brothervad, he has no logical answer. he just wants to hold on to Tomlin as the ship goes down. He's like the band on the Titanic, just keep playing as the ship sinks in the ocean.

[Northern_Blitz]

Northern Blitz,

Perhaps my thread was too long, but you have yet to address what you suggest the Steelers should do to correct the issue?

Are you suggesting everything is alright and it's a bad bounce here or there? Basically there is nothing the Steelers need to do.

I hate to say this but time is running out. Ben is 36 and has a lot of mileage on him. Perhaps he still has 1 to 2 seasons of excellent play left, but perhaps he is closer to the cliff that Eli Manning finds himself over today.

People have been spoiled here since 2004. Hell some don't remember the QB hell from Bradshaw to Ben Rothlisberger but let me remind you here and now:
1983
Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
Bubby Brister
Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
2003

And then 2004 the drought ended...with Big Ben. My point is it took 20 years to find a HOF QB. The window is closing. There are no guarantees of getting another franchise QB. Changes need to be made if the Steelers want to have a shot of going back to the Super Bowl.

So what say you NB?

thanks,
brothervad

My guess is that there isn't anything we can do to have an excellent chance at winning the SB while Ben is still here.

I would probably fire Butler (and Porter) and try to find the best replacements I could in the off season.

I would also do just about anything I could to get impact defenders at LB and in the secondary.

Then I'd hote we could get better learning a new scheme with new players in season so that we were peaking at the right time. Tomlin has shown an ability to do this fairky well (present season excluded). Small sample playoff runs are more luck based than regular seasons, so I'd hope for a few lucky breaks in the playoffs (like our first SB win with Ben).

I wish I had a more positive outlook for the near future, but I think missing on a few early picks on D and the Shazier injury really screwed the near future. I personally don't think we will be able to have the talent on D to be favorites to win.

So, I would also to listen to offers on Ben to see if I could give him the Joe Montana treatment and Kickstart the rebuild.

I think the best way to be a dominant team in the NFL is to have a very Good QB on a rookie deal. If we don't think we can turn it around on D in one year, maybe that's the best way forward (although it would be disappointing not to have gotten another win with Ben)

How do you think firing Tomlin makes our issue (no elite taleny on D and too many turnovers particularly by a HoF QB that makes some absolutely terrible ints) any better?

I don't think firing Tomlin gives any better shot at getting elite talent or reduces the frequency of Ben's brain farts.

I do think firing him means we're likely to get a HC that makes more frequent mistakes than Tomlin.

This is different than saying everything is perfect the way it is.

[Ghost]

Unless the Steelers break character and go out and spend on a big free agent; I don't believe there is anyway they can fix this secondary. Burns is done here and has been passed by guys who should be playing in the Arena league. They are regressing as the year goes on instead of finding their groove and getting better as a team. Would the team spend on a FA like Eric Rowe or Bradley Roby at the CB position or Landon Collins or HaHa Clinton-Dix at Safety (safety hasn't been much better than CB)?

If they believe they have the players necessary to run the schemes than prepare to be frustrated all next season.

[Steel Maniac]

Unless the Steelers break character and go out and spend on a big free agent; I don't believe there is anyway they can fix this secondary. Burns is done here and has been passed by guys who should be playing in the Arena league. They are regressing as the year goes on instead of finding their groove and getting better as a team. Would the team spend on a FA like Eric Rowe or Bradley Roby at the CB position or Landon Collins or HaHa Clinton-Dix at Safety (safety hasn't been much better than CB)?

If they believe they have the players necessary to run the schemes than prepare to be frustrated all next season.

You need to do like me and emotionally divest from this team and get back on board emotionally after Tomlin is let go. Let the Tomlin lovers continue to ride into a brick wall with Tomlin; you , me and the other few can get out the car and just let Tomlin crash and burn by himself. And we can continually do that until we get a new head coach. No sense in getting lathered up when we know he's never going to win anything. Just enjoy the ride; then jump, tuck and roll out the vehicle as Tomlin crashes. LOL

Gotta find some humor in this sad state of affairs.

[squidkid]

My guess is that there isn't anything we can do to have an excellent chance at winning the SB while Ben is still here.

I would probably fire Butler (and Porter) and try to find the best replacements I could in the off season.

I would also do just about anything I could to get impact defenders at LB and in the secondary.

Then I'd hote we could get better learning a new scheme with new players in season so that we were peaking at the right time. Tomlin has shown an ability to do this fairky well (present season excluded). Small sample playoff runs are more luck based than regular seasons, so I'd hope for a few lucky breaks in the playoffs (like our first SB win with Ben).

I wish I had a more positive outlook for the near future, but I think missing on a few early picks on D and the Shazier injury really screwed the near future. I personally don't think we will be able to have the talent on D to be favorites to win.

So, I would also to listen to offers on Ben to see if I could give him the Joe Montana treatment and Kickstart the rebuild.

I think the best way to be a dominant team in the NFL is to have a very Good QB on a rookie deal. If we don't think we can turn it around on D in one year, maybe that's the best way forward (although it would be disappointing not to have gotten another win with Ben)

How do you think firing Tomlin makes our issue (no elite taleny on D and too many turnovers particularly by a HoF QB that makes some absolutely terrible ints) any better?

I don't think firing Tomlin gives any better shot at getting elite talent or reduces the frequency of Ben's brain farts.

I do think firing him means we're likely to get a HC that makes more frequent mistakes than Tomlin.

This is different than saying everything is perfect the way it is.


really?....lol
so firing butler and porter..........how can you guarantee we will hire someone better?
tomlin had a chance to get a lb and db last off season and chose not to.
how does tomlin go about all od a sudden be better at learning new schemes? its his scheme and he cant get the players to understand it......for years now
missed on picks?......who made those picks? do you suggest tomlin not be allowed in the draft process?
so you want tomlin to get rid of the one player that has covered up his inability to coach all this talent up?....even tomlin isnt that stupid.
the main problem with this team is attitude.......and that comes directly from the HC

[steelz09]

I wasn't upset at the loss yesterday because quite honestly, I was prepared for it. I'm not shocked that we lost to the Raiders who are easily the worst team in the NFL. The standard is the standard and Tomlin defined it.

We've seen it before and we'll see it again. It's a broken record.

If we make the playoffs and that's a BIG "if", I don't see us getting past the 1st round.

One and done.

[brothervad]

NB,

I appreciate you providing your well thought out opinion of where the Steelers are at and what you think they should do. However, let me point out that some would attack/question your approach of trading away a franchise QB ala Montana as a complete rebuild and find that also a knee-jerk reaction not founded in practical/logical execution.

Just as you are suggesting those who want to rid themselves of Coach Tomlin.


In a nutshell, you are suggesting that find a good/great head coach is harder than finding a good QB (on his first contract). I apologize if it sounds like I am putting words in your text box, however, by saying given the circumstance you would keep Tomlin and not Ben because of all the holes...you are suggesting that approach.


Let me profess to you that I do think the Rooney family has a pretty good track record at finding the right head coach. 30 years of success is the sample data I can point to.

In that same 30 year period of time I just showed you that amount of times the franchise has picked a good/great QB. it happened twice 1969/2004. they are 2-15 at picking good/great QB's (13% success rate).

On head coaches (3/3 100%).

So if you ask me...I think they have less risk in getting rid of this head coach and hiring his replacement...than trading there HOF QB and rebuilding.

Furthermore, given Tomlin/Colbert track record of failed d-picks especially in the secondary, I have little faith in their ability at this point of rebuilding this defense.

Again, I do appreciate you providing your counterpoint, but I do think to suggest that others who are on the negative of Tomlin are coming from a knee jerk opinion

Regards,
brothervad

[SteelBucks]

Unless the Steelers break character and go out and spend on a big free agent; I don't believe there is anyway they can fix this secondary. Burns is done here and has been passed by guys who should be playing in the Arena league. They are regressing as the year goes on instead of finding their groove and getting better as a team. Would the team spend on a FA like Eric Rowe or Bradley Roby at the CB position or Landon Collins or HaHa Clinton-Dix at Safety (safety hasn't been much better than CB)?

If they believe they have the players necessary to run the schemes than prepare to be frustrated all next season.

They got a lot of cash leftover from LB.

[Terrapin]

Why do you think Tomlin is a defensive guru. Wasn't he a WR coach, and a WR in college? Then he coached on D and became more well rounded.

He's a different kind of coach than McVay and Payton.

Can you explain why Payton is great and Tomlin sucks when they've basically had the same career?

I think the difference is that we see all of Tomlin's mistakes and few of Payton's.

If he wasn't a defensive guru, and had zero experience coaching anything on the offensive side of the ball, what EXACTLY were his credentials for getting hired? Seriously. A guy that had almost zero experience , and as you said and by evidence of what we've seen, doesn't have a 'specialty' seems an odd choice for one of the most storied franchises in sports....

[flippy]

Biggest question is who could the Steelers hire right now if they fired Tomlin?

[Northern_Blitz]

NB,

I appreciate you providing your well thought out opinion of where the Steelers are at and what you think they should do. However, let me point out that some would attack/question your approach of trading away a franchise QB ala Montana as a complete rebuild and find that also a knee-jerk reaction not founded in practical/logical execution.

Just as you are suggesting those who want to rid themselves of Coach Tomlin.


In a nutshell, you are suggesting that find a good/great head coach is harder than finding a good QB (on his first contract). I apologize if it sounds like I am putting words in your text box, however, by saying given the circumstance you would keep Tomlin and not Ben because of all the holes...you are suggesting that approach.


Let me profess to you that I do think the Rooney family has a pretty good track record at finding the right head coach. 30 years of success is the sample data I can point to.

In that same 30 year period of time I just showed you that amount of times the franchise has picked a good/great QB. it happened twice 1969/2004. they are 2-15 at picking good/great QB's (13% success rate).

On head coaches (3/3 100%).

So if you ask me...I think they have less risk in getting rid of this head coach and hiring his replacement...than trading there HOF QB and rebuilding.

Furthermore, given Tomlin/Colbert track record of failed d-picks especially in the secondary, I have little faith in their ability at this point of rebuilding this defense.

Again, I do appreciate you providing your counterpoint, but I do think to suggest that others who are on the negative of Tomlin are coming from a knee jerk opinion

Regards,
brothervad

Thanks BV

I agree that trading Ben would be a last resort type of thing and I don't think we should do it. I think that we won't be favorites before he's retired, but the chance of winning (though slight) is probably worth keeping him. But, asking around to see if anyone wants to dramatically overpay isn't a bad idea IMO.

I don't think that finding a good / great head coach is harder than finding a good QB on a rookie contract. Finding a good HC is hard (ask CLE), but finding a good QB is the hardest thing in football (also ask CLE). I think we currently have good / great HC and a good / great QB. But, I think that the skills of the athlete erode infinitely more quickly than the skills of a coach. I also think that firing the HC won't make the QB (or the defense in this case) dramatically better the next season.

We will need to be looking for a good QB on a rookie contract in the next few years anyway and I'd rather just be looking for a QB than a QB and a coach.

I would also ask again why you think firing Tomlin would solve our problems (which I think are no impact players on D and too many turnovers...often by brain fart of a vet QB that I don't think will get coached out of it by the HC, OC, or a QB coach). My post was also long and I could see how you could have missed it.

[Northern_Blitz]

really?....lol
so firing butler and porter..........how can you guarantee we will hire someone better?
tomlin had a chance to get a lb and db last off season and chose not to.
how does tomlin go about all od a sudden be better at learning new schemes? its his scheme and he cant get the players to understand it......for years now
missed on picks?......who made those picks? do you suggest tomlin not be allowed in the draft process?
so you want tomlin to get rid of the one player that has covered up his inability to coach all this talent up?....even tomlin isnt that stupid.
the main problem with this team is attitude.......and that comes directly from the HC

Re: replacing coaches: You can never guarantee anything like and no one is asking anyone to for any replacement at any coaching decision.

But, I think you're being intentionally obtuse if you don't see that there's a difference between replacing
(a) an average / below average DC
(b) a LB coach who's biggest contribution is probably goading an opposing player into a personal foul
and
(c) a HC who has probably outperformed something like 95% of head coaches that have been in the league since he was hired.

I think two of those things pretty much grow on trees, while the third one is pretty rare.

Re: impact players. I think that there will be significantly different constraints on the team this upcoming off season vs. last season (with Shazier and Bell off the books). It also looks like we'll get a much higher draft pick (which is probably the best way to get impact players). I also don't understand why people think the HC has the primary responsibility for roster composition. He clearly has input, but acquiring player is the primary job of the GM so I'd say the "blame" for those picks falls mostly on Colbert. Like Tomlin, Colbert isn't perfect and has made mistakes. But, like Tomlin I'd take him over the vast majority of options out there.

Re: Schemes. I've not been an NFL player, but my understanding is that the OC and DC implement the schemes and the position coaches teach the technique. I agree that our D players seem to have difficulty grasping new schemes and communicating. Maybe it's because we seem to optimize for SPARQ score and should focus more on football IQ?

Re: getting rid of players. I assume that you mean Ben here. I don't think they should get rid of Ben. But, I also don't think we're good enough to win the SB while he's still here. So, I think there is some logic in testing the market. I think they won't trade him and I also think that's the right choice. But, I also think Colbert wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't consider all the options.

Re: Attitude. I think that coaches in today's NFL are kind of screwed when star players have crappy attitudes. Coaches are more disposable than elite players, so they enforce stricter rules on non-stars and try to manage the **** that stars stir up. For example, if Bell's absence from the practice before the playoff game last year was unexcused (not clear from the reports I've read) benching him would have still been stupid. I think you can point to BB here where excessive discipline probably cost them a championship.

[Oviedo]

Biggest question is who could the Steelers hire right now if they fired Tomlin?

Why think about something like that when you can feed the pirahnas with some red meat by firing a coach who averages double digit wins almost every year. Tomlin isn't perfect but better than 75% of the other coaches in this league and is second in win percentage to only Belicheck

[Terrapin]

Re: replacing coaches: You can never guarantee anything like and no one is asking anyone to for any replacement at any coaching decision.

But, I think you're being intentionally obtuse if you don't see that there's a difference between replacing
(a) an average / below average DC
(b) a LB coach who's biggest contribution is probably goading an opposing player into a personal foul
and
(c) a HC who has probably outperformed something like 95% of head coaches that have been in the league since he was hired.

I think two of those things pretty much grow on trees, while the third one is pretty rare.

Re: impact players. I think that there will be significantly different constraints on the team this upcoming off season vs. last season (with Shazier and Bell off the books). It also looks like we'll get a much higher draft pick (which is probably the best way to get impact players). I also don't understand why people think the HC has the primary responsibility for roster composition. He clearly has input, but acquiring player is the primary job of the GM so I'd say the "blame" for those picks falls mostly on Colbert. Like Tomlin, Colbert isn't perfect and has made mistakes. But, like Tomlin I'd take him over the vast majority of options out there.

Re: Schemes. I've not been an NFL player, but my understanding is that the OC and DC implement the schemes and the position coaches teach the technique. I agree that our D players seem to have difficulty grasping new schemes and communicating. Maybe it's because we seem to optimize for SPARQ score and should focus more on football IQ?

Re: getting rid of players. I assume that you mean Ben here. I don't think they should get rid of Ben. But, I also don't think we're good enough to win the SB while he's still here. So, I think there is some logic in testing the market. I think they won't trade him and I also think that's the right choice. But, I also think Colbert wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't consider all the options.

Re: Attitude. I think that coaches in today's NFL are kind of screwed when star players have crappy attitudes. Coaches are more disposable than elite players, so they enforce stricter rules on non-stars and try to manage the **** that stars stir up. For example, if Bell's absence from the practice before the playoff game last year was unexcused (not clear from the reports I've read) benching him would have still been stupid. I think you can point to BB here where excessive discipline probably cost them a championship.

These are all very good points. But that begs the question then; 'what exactly does a HC actually do?' If it's game/clock management, he falls 'well below the line'. If it's being a good public speaker, then he's great.

Point is, if you excuse him for all of those things you listed, what exactly are you giving him credit for?

[Northern_Blitz]

These are all very good points. But that begs the question then; 'what exactly does a HC actually do?' If it's game/clock management, he falls 'well below the line'. If it's being a good public speaker, then he's great.

Point is, if you excuse him for all of those things you listed, what exactly are you giving him credit for?

I think that Tomlin does a very good job at managing people. I think he manages egos (players and coaches) and motivates player to play at a high level while generally keeping the team focused on the task at hand. I think he's also been able to work well with other coaches (Hard Knocks this year showed us that this isn't always the case when you have good coordinators).

There are bumps in the road (like taking live video in the dressing room), but I think that he does a pretty good job of navigating star players and their idiosyncrasies.

I think he should also be responsible for promoting / hiring / firing staff. I think good leaders hire good people and do their best to remove barriers so those good people can do their jobs to the best of their ability. The results suggest that Tomlin is better at this than all but the very best coaches in the league.

I don't think it would be the end of the world if they fire Tomlin. But, I think it's likely to be a downgrade at the position and I don't think it would have any direct positive impact on the biggest problems with the team.

[brothervad]

Thanks BV

I agree that trading Ben would be a last resort type of thing and I don't think we should do it. I think that we won't be favorites before he's retired, but the chance of winning (though slight) is probably worth keeping him. But, asking around to see if anyone wants to dramatically overpay isn't a bad idea IMO.

I don't think that finding a good / great head coach is harder than finding a good QB on a rookie contract. Finding a good HC is hard (ask CLE), but finding a good QB is the hardest thing in football (also ask CLE). I think we currently have good / great HC and a good / great QB. But, I think that the skills of the athlete erode infinitely more quickly than the skills of a coach. I also think that firing the HC won't make the QB (or the defense in this case) dramatically better the next season.

Will will need to be looking for a good QB on a rookie contract in the next few years anyway and I'd rather just be looking for a QB than a QB and a coach.

I would also ask again why you think firing Tomlin would solve our problems (which I think are no impact players on D and too many turnovers...often by brain fart of a vet QB that I don't think will get coached out of it by the HC, OC, or a QB coach). My post was also long and I could see how you could have missed it.

Northern Blitz,

I am not in the "Fire Tomlin" camp completely. What I am in though is it is time for the seat temperature to be turned up if they end up not making the playoffs.

The PG's Gerry Dulac has stated in several chats that Tomlin is actively involved in defensive playcalling/scheming this year. So he does have to take a share of the blame for how this defense has performed this year.

I also believe a lot of the drama that goes on is because it is allowed. Case in point you point to the Patriots and his playcalling...it's also how he handles personnel and their off the field antics or lack thereof.

So what I think needs to happen is at the end of the season the ownership needs to talk to both Colbert and Tomlin

1) Need to start doing a better job of assessing talent both in FA and draft
2) Need to stop being a players coach - I use this term loosely but its time to start putting the hammer down on the drama. If Ben wants to single out players do it behind the scenes. You carry on in the field with a temper tantrum you get to sit on the bench for a quarter...start looking like you manage the asylum.
3) Need to replace the current defensive staff (Butler, Porter, Bradley -- sorry it's Bradley's secondary and I see no improvement throughout the year whatsoever). Here's the deal - Tomlin gets to handpick his staff (if he hasn't already)...your chance to make this team totally in your image. It fails, you fail
4) Establish the bar and make it high...they have 14 million in savings from Lev Bell with that and the cap increase they can't be the cheapskates in FA. You need LB/Secondary help. So you got money use it and get a #1 seed and an AFC championship game at Heinz Field. (I want to say super bowl or bust but I think the other one is pretty harsh as well).
5) Make him hire a challenge assistant. Tell him in his end of year review that his gameday management needs to improve.

Do I fire Tomlin if he doesn't get all of these ? No but it has to be the bar.

In the end, I am amenable to something less than the above, but I think there needs to be more accountability. Comparing our coordinators from last year looking solely at stats and production and not the personality/playcall issues Butler would've been the one purged not Haley.

I think Haley being let go was obviously the right call, but the fact they did very little on the d side of the ball was unacceptable.

It's time to send a message that the coaching staff needs to be held accountable.

So my only difference is that I want Tomlin to know that the Steelers are expecting more of him next year not less or the same.

just my .02...

brothervad

[squidkid]

Re: replacing coaches: You can never guarantee anything like and no one is asking anyone to for any replacement at any coaching decision.

But, I think you're being intentionally obtuse if you don't see that there's a difference between replacing
(a) an average / below average DC
(b) a LB coach who's biggest contribution is probably goading an opposing player into a personal foul
and
(c) a HC who has probably outperformed something like 95% of head coaches that have been in the league since he was hired.

I think two of those things pretty much grow on trees, while the third one is pretty rare.

Re: impact players. I think that there will be significantly different constraints on the team this upcoming off season vs. last season (with Shazier and Bell off the books). It also looks like we'll get a much higher draft pick (which is probably the best way to get impact players). I also don't understand why people think the HC has the primary responsibility for roster composition. He clearly has input, but acquiring player is the primary job of the GM so I'd say the "blame" for those picks falls mostly on Colbert. Like Tomlin, Colbert isn't perfect and has made mistakes. But, like Tomlin I'd take him over the vast majority of options out there.

Re: Schemes. I've not been an NFL player, but my understanding is that the OC and DC implement the schemes and the position coaches teach the technique. I agree that our D players seem to have difficulty grasping new schemes and communicating. Maybe it's because we seem to optimize for SPARQ score and should focus more on football IQ?

Re: getting rid of players. I assume that you mean Ben here. I don't think they should get rid of Ben. But, I also don't think we're good enough to win the SB while he's still here. So, I think there is some logic in testing the market. I think they won't trade him and I also think that's the right choice. But, I also think Colbert wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't consider all the options.

Re: Attitude. I think that coaches in today's NFL are kind of screwed when star players have crappy attitudes. Coaches are more disposable than elite players, so they enforce stricter rules on non-stars and try to manage the **** that stars stir up. For example, if Bell's absence from the practice before the playoff game last year was unexcused (not clear from the reports I've read) benching him would have still been stupid. I think you can point to BB here where excessive discipline probably cost them a championship.

ummm, butlers record is the same as tomlins. so is porter.
are then saying you have no faith in the organization to find another successful HC like they did with cowher and tomlin?

i do appreciate your well thought out responses, but im just not buying it.
we will have to agree to disagree. you are one type of fan that is satisfied and happy with this team under tomlin, and i am another type that wants more.

[Steel Maniac]

ummm, butlers record is the same as tomlins. so is porter.
are then saying you have no faith in the organization to find another successful HC like they did with cowher and tomlin?

i do appreciate your well thought out responses, but im just not buying it.
we will have to agree to disagree. you are one type of fan that is satisfied and happy with this team under tomlin, and i am another type that wants more.

Boom................

[Northern_Blitz]

ummm, butlers record is the same as tomlins. so is porter.
are then saying you have no faith in the organization to find another successful HC like they did with cowher and tomlin?

i do appreciate your well thought out responses, but im just not buying it.
we will have to agree to disagree. you are one type of fan that is satisfied and happy with this team under tomlin, and i am another type that wants more.

I'm not sure that team record is the metric to use to evaluate a DC and an OLB coach.

How much of the Steelers recent performance do you think is due to (1) excellence on D and (2) excellence at OLB?

I don't think those are the elements that were driving our success over the past 4 years. Do you?

I would probably be OK giving Butler an incomplete this year and half of last year because of the loss of Shazier. But, I think it's reasonable to start looking at results more critically next season when 50 is off the cap.

I think that the issue with Butler is that he's trying to optimize for sacks. He's doing a good job of that actually. But, I don't think sacks are as important as they used to be because it's getting easier and easier to pass the ball for big yardage. Especially when the secondary is bad. The lack of turnovers is bad.

If you want to keep Butler, I'd be OK with that too. But I think he's the weakest link of the HC / OC / DC group. We could probably make similar arguments against the OC, but I don't think we change OC's again while Ben is here.

[steelz09]

Why think about something like that when you can feed the pirahnas with some red meat by firing a coach who averages double digit wins almost every year. Tomlin isn't perfect but better than 75% of the other coaches in this league and is second in win percentage to only Belicheck

Says the pirahna that bitched and moaned for years about calling for the firing of Dick Lebeau.

[pittpete]

Irrational hysterics...again
You're great at putting down people who criticise Tomlin.
Everyone overreacts or is moronic, an idiot and you're just so cool.
Its great you're satisfied and happy with mediocrity.
Stop putting people down because they don't agree with you, your schtick has grown old.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

In terms of replacement, I have never liked the idea of taking the OC or DC of a great unit and turning that guy into your next HC. HC requires a much different skillset and all you end up doing is removing a great co-ordinator from another team - or your own. It is like taking your top sales person and turning them into a sales manager. Because he can sell doesn't mean that he can teach, manage, and motivate others, and you just lost your top sales guy.

That would be my reasoning behind saying no WRT Munch. He wasn't a good HC prior to coming to Pittsburgh, and he would no longer have the time to spend teaching linemen.

[NorthCoast]

Oh yeah. With irrational statements like, " Where would we get our next coach?" WHAT??? We get our next coach just like the Rams, Bears, Colts found their next coach. That's weak talk to me when you make a lame reason of, " Where would we get our next coach?" :rolleyes:Great idea! It so easy to find a winning coach. Rams last SB appearance, 17 yrs ago... been through 6 HCs since then. Bears? another good one, last SB 12 yrs ago, 3 HCs since then. Colts.... last SB 9 yrs ago... 3 HCs since then.

Since 2000 there have been only 4 repeat SB appearances by a HC; Belichick with an untouchable 8 appearances; Tomlin, Coughlin, Carroll, Fox with 2 each. Every other HC has been a one and done. And some of these HCs have had HOF QBs and still not gotten back to the SB. McCarthy with Rodgers, Payton with Brees, Dungy with Manning. It's just not as easy as replacing the HC.... a lot of things have to go right (that are beyond the HC's control) for a team to make it to the finale.

[Northern_Blitz]

In terms of replacement, I have never liked the idea of taking the OC or DC of a great unit and turning that guy into your next HC. HC requires a much different skillset and all you end up doing is removing a great co-ordinator from another team - or your own. It is like taking your top sales person and turning them into a sales manager. Because he can sell doesn't mean that he can teach, manage, and motivate others, and you just lost your top sales guy.

That would be my reasoning behind saying no WRT Munch. He wasn't a good HC prior to coming to Pittsburgh, and he would no longer have the time to spend teaching linemen.

This is how I feel about hiring a HC as well.

[flippy]

ummm, butlers record is the same as tomlins. so is porter.
are then saying you have no faith in the organization to find another successful HC like they did with cowher and tomlin?

i do appreciate your well thought out responses, but im just not buying it.
we will have to agree to disagree. you are one type of fan that is satisfied and happy with this team under tomlin, and i am another type that wants more.

Good for both of you, but what do the Rooney’s want? That’s all that really matters.

Do SuperBowl victories really matter to them? Or is it about making money and they’re content selling out games, merch, etc.

Perhaps they want some more home playoff games to make a little more. Perhaps another SuperBowl would increase the team’s valuation. Maybe some of the minority owners care more.

[Steel Maniac]

You're great at putting down people who criticise Tomlin.
Everyone overreacts or is moronic, an idiot and you're just so cool.
Its great you're satisfied and happy with mediocrity.
Stop putting people down because they don't agree with you, your schtick has grown old.

I agree. It's either he or "another poster who will remain nameless" that use personal attacks on people who criticize Tomlin. Needs to stop.
Just agree to disagree and move on. But no personal insults are needed. Calling other posters names is against the rules.

[Steel Maniac]

Great idea! It so easy to find a winning coach. Rams last SB appearance, 17 yrs ago... been through 6 HCs since then. Bears? another good one, last SB 12 yrs ago, 3 HCs since then. Colts.... last SB 9 yrs ago... 3 HCs since then.

Since 2000 there have been only 4 repeat SB appearances by a HC; Belichick with an untouchable 8 appearances; Tomlin, Coughlin, Carroll, Fox with 2 each. Every other HC has been a one and done. And some of these HCs have had HOF QBs and still not gotten back to the SB. McCarthy with Rodgers, Payton with Brees, Dungy with Manning. It's just not as easy as replacing the HC.... a lot of things have to go right (that are beyond the HC's control) for a team to make it to the finale.

You don't run from change out of fear. Change is always uncomfortable and initially awkward but you don't run from it when it's necessary out of fear. We can find another good coach. When the proper due diligence is done, I believe we'll find our next great coach.

You don't operate and make moves (or no moves) out of fear.

[brothervad]

You don't run from change out of fear. Change is always uncomfortable and initially awkward but you don't run from it when it's necessary out of fear. We can find another good coach. When the proper due diligence is done, I believe we'll find our next great coach.

You don't operate and make moves (or no moves) out of fear.

I agree with this statement.

The one thing this franchise has shown a penchant a core competency if you will is finding a good head coach. I think its worth repeating in 50 years this organization has been 3/3 in finding very good/great head coaches.

On the other hand this organization is 2/15 in finding a a great QB. Looking at the current braintrust their is even greater uncertainty in their ability to identify talent at the QB position. Being fair they did not have to really look but since Tomlin/Colbert here are the picks

Dennis Dixon
Landry Jones
Josh Dobbs
Mason Rudolph

There is nothing here for me to be critical of...you have a HOF QB, the only negative I can point to is that the two earlier picks (Dixon/Jones) are out of the league.

Two things that indicates to me is that...

1) There isn't a lot of data out there to suggest these guys will have "it" when finding Ben's replacement
2) I shudder to think how this team will perform given it's current trajectory when #7 decides to hang it up.

As I mentioned earlier in this post...I don't know if it's time to fire Coach Tomlin...but I do KNOW that it is time for him to receive a wake up call. People can point to this record and yes it is pretty impressive. But there are also the numbers that don't get posted like the amount of losses when favored by 10 points. The blowing of challenges/time outs. The drama.

But Steel Maniac is right...you can't be afraid of change. It is coming soon enough. The big question I have is this current staff (Tomlin/Colbert) capable of rebuilding the defense in the timeframe to at least minimize the impact of losing our HOF QB to retirement. If the answer is "no" then you need to act sooner than later.

IMO

brothervad

[NorthCoast]

I agree with this statement.

The one thing this franchise has shown a penchant a core competency if you will is finding a good head coach. I think its worth repeating in 50 years this organization has been 3/3 in finding very good/great head coaches.

On the other hand this organization is 2/15 in finding a a great QB. Looking at the current braintrust their is even greater uncertainty in their ability to identify talent at the QB position. Being fair they did not have to really look but since Tomlin/Colbert here are the picks

Dennis Dixon
Landry Jones
Josh Dobbs
Mason Rudolph

There is nothing here for me to be critical of...you have a HOF QB, the only negative I can point to is that the two earlier picks (Dixon/Jones) are out of the league.

Two things that indicates to me is that...

1) There isn't a lot of data out there to suggest these guys will have "it" when finding Ben's replacement
2) I shudder to think how this team will perform given it's current trajectory when #7 decides to hang it up.

As I mentioned earlier in this post...I don't know if it's time to fire Coach Tomlin...but I do KNOW that it is time for him to receive a wake up call. People can point to this record and yes it is pretty impressive. But there are also the numbers that don't get posted like the amount of losses when favored by 10 points. The blowing of challenges/time outs. The drama.

But Steel Maniac is right...you can't be afraid of change. It is coming soon enough. The big question I have is this current staff (Tomlin/Colbert) capable of rebuilding the defense in the timeframe to at least minimize the impact of losing our HOF QB to retirement. If the answer is "no" then you need to act sooner than later.

IMO

brothervad
So the Steelers brass is incapable of finding player talent, but somehow know how to find the next great coach waiting to be hired?!? Interesting.
Not sure how fear entered the conversation but reality is a whole generation of fans could pass before the next great one is hired. The Steelers understand this and it is one reason why they dont make these decisions lightly.

[Steel Maniac]

Anytime you use the excuse, " But who are we going to hire if we fire Tomlin?" line, that's an indication of fear of the unknown. And nothing else. If that were the case, no coach would ever get canned.

Steeler brass (management) is not totally incompetent. They can do somethings well. And there's no reason to think that they can't do their due diligence and find our next great coach.

This team is on a fast downward spiral starting in 2016 to now. The reality is that at this rate of spiralling, it won't take a whole generation. A five game losing streak to end the season and you won't have to wait more then this off-season to see major change.

[squidkid]

lets get this straight. tomlin was a good hire. we needed a fresh, hungry guy with new rah rah talk...........he did the job.
he lost the fire, desire and motivation skills. its time to find the next hungry guy. hopefully one that can win with scheme and good talent

[NorthCoast]

Anytime you use the excuse, " But who are we going to hire if we fire Tomlin?" line, that's an indication of fear of the unknown. And nothing else. If that were the case, no coach would ever get canned.

.......What? Teams get rid of HCs all the time when their team is not winning. Tomlin is the HC because he wins. The fear, if there is any, is in the next guy being lesser than the current guy. That's why teams don't get rid of winning coaches. It's risk/reward. If Tomlin goes on a losing streak he can't turn around, then the risk with a new guy is all upside. The fact is, Tomlin has set a pretty high bar for the next guy.

[NJ-STEELER]

they're certainly not "winning" because of him.

what moves has he made that make people think otherwise

[papillon]

lets get this straight. tomlin was a good hire. we needed a fresh, hungry guy with new rah rah talk...........he did the job.
he lost the fire, desire and motivation skills. its time to find the next hungry guy. hopefully one that can win with scheme and good talent

I don't see how you can make that determination about Tomlin losing his fire, desire and motivation skills. I'm fairly certain that earlier in the year there were threads saying that this may be the best job Tomlin has done keeping the team together, motivated and playing as a team. Now, all of a sudden, he doesn't want to be there anymore? I don't see it. He clearly enjoys the game, coaching and his players, they need to figure this out as a team.

Pappy

[papillon]

they're certainly not "winning" because of him.

what moves has he made that make people think otherwise

This whole team is his team, save for Ben, I'd say him and Colbert have made plenty of moves to keep this team and other teams of his winning.

Pappy

[steelz09]

Tomlin is a rah rah coach. Always has been always will be. He's never been a x-and-o coach.

[NorthCoast]

Tomlin is a rah rah coach. Always has been always will be. He's never been a x-and-o coach.He doesn't need to be. That's what coordinators are for. If they can't do their job, he hasn't been afraid to make a change. This is in stark contrast with his predecessor who would hang on to 'his guys' to a fault.
Again, if the team is winning and Tomlin is the HC then he gets the credit. If the team is losing, he gets the blame. This isn't anything new or revolutionary.

[papillon]

He doesn't need to be. That's what coordinators are for. If they can't do their job, he hasn't been afraid to make a change. This is in stark contrast with his predecessor who would hang on to 'his guys' to a fault.
Again, if the team is winning and Tomlin is the HC then he gets the credit. If the team is losing, he gets the blame. This isn't anything new or revolutionary.

He rarely gets credit for anything, so this isn't anything new. I hate the way the team has not been finishing games for whatever reason, defense, special teams, offense, coaching decisions, etc. I hope they can get it straightened out. The Pats have lost 4 games to average to below average teams, the Steelers can win this game, they need to finish the game. I believe they'll have the lead in the 2nd half of this game, they need to not implode.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

Not that it will sway some fans on Tomlin, but this article sheds some further light on holding Roethlisberger out of the game:


https://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-happened-with-ben-roethlisberger-on-sunda-1830980286

Sunday’s loss to the Tankin’ Grudens has sent Yinzer Nation into a full-on panic. The Steelers are still in first place in the AFC North, but they’re only a half-game up on the Ravens and they’ve lost three straight after a 7-2-1 start, with the Patriots and Saints up next. But what’s had every Greg in Wexford frantically dialing every sports-talk show in Western Pennsylvania the last two days is the following question: Why was quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who injured his ribs shortly before halftime, held out until 5:20 remained in the fourth quarter and the Steelers had fallen behind? According to the Steelers, it’s because the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum’s X-ray machine is an antiquated piece of ****.
At least that’s the story Roethlisberger and head coach Mike Tomlin told today. In the immediate aftermath of Sunday’s game, per The Athletic’s Mark Kaboly (https://theathletic.com/703541/2018/12/10/the-breakdown-curious-decision-not-to-put-ben-roethlisberger-back-in-game-earlier-encapsulates-loss-to-raiders/), they both said something quite different:
“I was just waiting for the coach to tell me when to go,” Roethlisberger said.
[...]
“You know, he got looked at halftime, and he got treatment, and he came back out,” Tomlin said. “We were waiting to see if he was going to be able to come back in and he was. (He) probably could’ve come in a series or two but we were in a rhythm and the flow of the game …”





Naturally, these comments didn’t go over too well. If what Roethlisberger and Tomlin said there was true—that Roethlisberger was ready to go back in but Tomlin opted to keep his franchise QB on the sideline because of, well, who the hell really knows—it was coaching malpractice. Why wait so long when Roethlisberger’s replacement, Joshua Dobbs, played four series in which he either turned the ball over or constantly seemed to be about to? Did the Steelers think they could just coast by counting on Dobbs and their (LOL) defense to win the game? Once Roethlisberger actually returned, he promptly went 6-for-6 and engineered a touchdown drive that (briefly) gave the Steelers the lead. (Now, another theory that went around is that it was Roethlisberger, not Tomlin, who initially elected not to return to the game, at least until the Steelers fell behind. Again, though: Why? Was Roethlisberger still hurt and exercising some agency over his health?) If you’re still with me at this point, good—I’m finally about to get to Oakland’s allegedly bum-ass X-ray machine.


In separate interviews today, both Roethlisberger and Tomlin explained Roethlisberger’s prolonged absence by saying the X-ray machine at the Raiders’ stadium could not give anyone on the Steelers an adequate reading (https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/sean-gentille/2018/12/11/ben-roethlisberger-rib-injury-josh-dobbs-steelers-patriots/stories/201812110099) on the extent of Roethlisberger’s injury. Roethlisberger had been given an X-ray at halftime, and the possibility of one or more broken ribs raises the possibility of a punctured lung, so some amount of caution was in order.
“We got the result of the X-rays, they weren’t readable,” Tomlin said during a press conference (https://twitter.com/steelers/status/1072536540889473024). “It was into the third quarter by the time we got to the logistics of actually even getting the X-rays, and then they were less than readable.” The reason? “It was probably a dated piece of equipment, or what have you,” Tomlin said.
Here’s Roethlisberger, who is expected to play against the Patriots this Sunday, on his weekly show on 93.7 The Fan (https://937thefan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/ben-roethlisberger-show-12-11mp3): “The X-ray was inconclusive, I believe, because the machine was old—you’ll have to ask Doc [team doctor James] Bradley. But we never knew until yesterday when I went and got an MRI, that’s when we got officially the word of what it is. But, yeah, we never really knew. But by that time the medicine was kicking pretty good. I told coach, ‘I’ll give you everything I got,’ so I went in there and I tried to give it everything I have.”
As a result, or so the story goes, GM Kevin Colbert and the coaching staff chose to proceed by keeping Roethlisberger on the sidelines unless he’d be needed for what Tomlin described as an “emergency-like situation.” Roethlisberger and Tomlin both likened the scenario to what happened during a playoff game three years against the Bengals (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601090cin.htm). Both Roethlisberger and Tomlin also revealed that Roethlisberger had been given a painkiller, which took some time to take effect.

“Because of lack of information and the situation not being a comfortable or ideal one, we would only re-insert him into the game if we felt it was necessary,” Tomlin said today. “As the game unfolded, obviously, it became necessary.”
However:

Tomlin was also asked during today’s presser whether falling behind created an emergency, even given the lack of information about Roethlisberger’s health. “If we felt like we needed Ben to win the game, we were willing to do it,” he said, before detailing why he brought none of this up during his postgame presser.
“I was not interested in discussing it after the game because I’m not a comfort-seeker; I don’t want to blame others,” Tomlin said. “I don’t care about the equipment, the speed in which the thing transpired, whether or not we were able to read it. That was the same equipment for both teams, et cetera, et cetera. So I said very little after the game. But obviously this [story] has had legs, and it had grown, and we want to minimize the senseless distractions, so I’m being very transparent with you in terms of what transpired, how, and why.”

In conclusion, the Steelers didn’t know how injured Roethlisberger was, but they somehow were confident enough he could return once his pain meds kicked in, if necessary, which turned out to be right after they fell behind, in a game they would lose anyway.

Also, their defense can’t hold a lead and their kicker can’t make a kick. I can’t imagine why their season seems to be falling apart

[squidkid]

He doesn't need to be. That's what coordinators are for. If they can't do their job, he hasn't been afraid to make a change. This is in stark contrast with his predecessor who would hang on to 'his guys' to a fault.
Again, if the team is winning and Tomlin is the HC then he gets the credit. If the team is losing, he gets the blame. This isn't anything new or revolutionary.


what changes did he make?

[squidkid]

Not that it will sway some fans on Tomlin, but this article sheds some further light on holding Roethlisberger out of the game:


https://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-happened-with-ben-roethlisberger-on-sunda-1830980286

Sunday’s loss to the Tankin’ Grudens has sent Yinzer Nation into a full-on panic. The Steelers are still in first place in the AFC North, but they’re only a half-game up on the Ravens and they’ve lost three straight after a 7-2-1 start, with the Patriots and Saints up next. But what’s had every Greg in Wexford frantically dialing every sports-talk show in Western Pennsylvania the last two days is the following question: Why was quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who injured his ribs shortly before halftime, held out until 5:20 remained in the fourth quarter and the Steelers had fallen behind? According to the Steelers, it’s because the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum’s X-ray machine is an antiquated piece of ****.
At least that’s the story Roethlisberger and head coach Mike Tomlin told today. In the immediate aftermath of Sunday’s game, per The Athletic’s Mark Kaboly (https://theathletic.com/703541/2018/12/10/the-breakdown-curious-decision-not-to-put-ben-roethlisberger-back-in-game-earlier-encapsulates-loss-to-raiders/), they both said something quite different:
“I was just waiting for the coach to tell me when to go,” Roethlisberger said.
[...]
“You know, he got looked at halftime, and he got treatment, and he came back out,” Tomlin said. “We were waiting to see if he was going to be able to come back in and he was. (He) probably could’ve come in a series or two but we were in a rhythm and the flow of the game …”





Naturally, these comments didn’t go over too well. If what Roethlisberger and Tomlin said there was true—that Roethlisberger was ready to go back in but Tomlin opted to keep his franchise QB on the sideline because of, well, who the hell really knows—it was coaching malpractice. Why wait so long when Roethlisberger’s replacement, Joshua Dobbs, played four series in which he either turned the ball over or constantly seemed to be about to? Did the Steelers think they could just coast by counting on Dobbs and their (LOL) defense to win the game? Once Roethlisberger actually returned, he promptly went 6-for-6 and engineered a touchdown drive that (briefly) gave the Steelers the lead. (Now, another theory that went around is that it was Roethlisberger, not Tomlin, who initially elected not to return to the game, at least until the Steelers fell behind. Again, though: Why? Was Roethlisberger still hurt and exercising some agency over his health?) If you’re still with me at this point, good—I’m finally about to get to Oakland’s allegedly bum-ass X-ray machine.


In separate interviews today, both Roethlisberger and Tomlin explained Roethlisberger’s prolonged absence by saying the X-ray machine at the Raiders’ stadium could not give anyone on the Steelers an adequate reading (https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/sean-gentille/2018/12/11/ben-roethlisberger-rib-injury-josh-dobbs-steelers-patriots/stories/201812110099) on the extent of Roethlisberger’s injury. Roethlisberger had been given an X-ray at halftime, and the possibility of one or more broken ribs raises the possibility of a punctured lung, so some amount of caution was in order.
“We got the result of the X-rays, they weren’t readable,” Tomlin said during a press conference (https://twitter.com/steelers/status/1072536540889473024). “It was into the third quarter by the time we got to the logistics of actually even getting the X-rays, and then they were less than readable.” The reason? “It was probably a dated piece of equipment, or what have you,” Tomlin said.
Here’s Roethlisberger, who is expected to play against the Patriots this Sunday, on his weekly show on 93.7 The Fan (https://937thefan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/ben-roethlisberger-show-12-11mp3): “The X-ray was inconclusive, I believe, because the machine was old—you’ll have to ask Doc [team doctor James] Bradley. But we never knew until yesterday when I went and got an MRI, that’s when we got officially the word of what it is. But, yeah, we never really knew. But by that time the medicine was kicking pretty good. I told coach, ‘I’ll give you everything I got,’ so I went in there and I tried to give it everything I have.”
As a result, or so the story goes, GM Kevin Colbert and the coaching staff chose to proceed by keeping Roethlisberger on the sidelines unless he’d be needed for what Tomlin described as an “emergency-like situation.” Roethlisberger and Tomlin both likened the scenario to what happened during a playoff game three years against the Bengals (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601090cin.htm). Both Roethlisberger and Tomlin also revealed that Roethlisberger had been given a painkiller, which took some time to take effect.

“Because of lack of information and the situation not being a comfortable or ideal one, we would only re-insert him into the game if we felt it was necessary,” Tomlin said today. “As the game unfolded, obviously, it became necessary.”
However:

Tomlin was also asked during today’s presser whether falling behind created an emergency, even given the lack of information about Roethlisberger’s health. “If we felt like we needed Ben to win the game, we were willing to do it,” he said, before detailing why he brought none of this up during his postgame presser.
“I was not interested in discussing it after the game because I’m not a comfort-seeker; I don’t want to blame others,” Tomlin said. “I don’t care about the equipment, the speed in which the thing transpired, whether or not we were able to read it. That was the same equipment for both teams, et cetera, et cetera. So I said very little after the game. But obviously this [story] has had legs, and it had grown, and we want to minimize the senseless distractions, so I’m being very transparent with you in terms of what transpired, how, and why.”

In conclusion, the Steelers didn’t know how injured Roethlisberger was, but they somehow were confident enough he could return once his pain meds kicked in, if necessary, which turned out to be right after they fell behind, in a game they would lose anyway.

Also, their defense can’t hold a lead and their kicker can’t make a kick. I can’t imagine why their season seems to be falling apart


so after 4 different stories of how it went down, now everybody got together and made up one that sorta sounds believeable.........

[Terrapin]

Not that it will sway some fans on Tomlin, but this article sheds some further light on holding Roethlisberger out of the game:


https://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-happened-with-ben-roethlisberger-on-sunda-1830980286

Sunday’s loss to the Tankin’ Grudens has sent Yinzer Nation into a full-on panic. The Steelers are still in first place in the AFC North, but they’re only a half-game up on the Ravens and they’ve lost three straight after a 7-2-1 start, with the Patriots and Saints up next. But what’s had every Greg in Wexford frantically dialing every sports-talk show in Western Pennsylvania the last two days is the following question: Why was quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who injured his ribs shortly before halftime, held out until 5:20 remained in the fourth quarter and the Steelers had fallen behind? According to the Steelers, it’s because the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum’s X-ray machine is an antiquated piece of ****.
At least that’s the story Roethlisberger and head coach Mike Tomlin told today. In the immediate aftermath of Sunday’s game, per The Athletic’s Mark Kaboly (https://theathletic.com/703541/2018/12/10/the-breakdown-curious-decision-not-to-put-ben-roethlisberger-back-in-game-earlier-encapsulates-loss-to-raiders/), they both said something quite different:
“I was just waiting for the coach to tell me when to go,” Roethlisberger said.
[...]
“You know, he got looked at halftime, and he got treatment, and he came back out,” Tomlin said. “We were waiting to see if he was going to be able to come back in and he was. (He) probably could’ve come in a series or two but we were in a rhythm and the flow of the game …”





Naturally, these comments didn’t go over too well. If what Roethlisberger and Tomlin said there was true—that Roethlisberger was ready to go back in but Tomlin opted to keep his franchise QB on the sideline because of, well, who the hell really knows—it was coaching malpractice. Why wait so long when Roethlisberger’s replacement, Joshua Dobbs, played four series in which he either turned the ball over or constantly seemed to be about to? Did the Steelers think they could just coast by counting on Dobbs and their (LOL) defense to win the game? Once Roethlisberger actually returned, he promptly went 6-for-6 and engineered a touchdown drive that (briefly) gave the Steelers the lead. (Now, another theory that went around is that it was Roethlisberger, not Tomlin, who initially elected not to return to the game, at least until the Steelers fell behind. Again, though: Why? Was Roethlisberger still hurt and exercising some agency over his health?) If you’re still with me at this point, good—I’m finally about to get to Oakland’s allegedly bum-ass X-ray machine.


In separate interviews today, both Roethlisberger and Tomlin explained Roethlisberger’s prolonged absence by saying the X-ray machine at the Raiders’ stadium could not give anyone on the Steelers an adequate reading (https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/sean-gentille/2018/12/11/ben-roethlisberger-rib-injury-josh-dobbs-steelers-patriots/stories/201812110099) on the extent of Roethlisberger’s injury. Roethlisberger had been given an X-ray at halftime, and the possibility of one or more broken ribs raises the possibility of a punctured lung, so some amount of caution was in order.
“We got the result of the X-rays, they weren’t readable,” Tomlin said during a press conference (https://twitter.com/steelers/status/1072536540889473024). “It was into the third quarter by the time we got to the logistics of actually even getting the X-rays, and then they were less than readable.” The reason? “It was probably a dated piece of equipment, or what have you,” Tomlin said.
Here’s Roethlisberger, who is expected to play against the Patriots this Sunday, on his weekly show on 93.7 The Fan (https://937thefan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/ben-roethlisberger-show-12-11mp3): “The X-ray was inconclusive, I believe, because the machine was old—you’ll have to ask Doc [team doctor James] Bradley. But we never knew until yesterday when I went and got an MRI, that’s when we got officially the word of what it is. But, yeah, we never really knew. But by that time the medicine was kicking pretty good. I told coach, ‘I’ll give you everything I got,’ so I went in there and I tried to give it everything I have.”
As a result, or so the story goes, GM Kevin Colbert and the coaching staff chose to proceed by keeping Roethlisberger on the sidelines unless he’d be needed for what Tomlin described as an “emergency-like situation.” Roethlisberger and Tomlin both likened the scenario to what happened during a playoff game three years against the Bengals (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601090cin.htm). Both Roethlisberger and Tomlin also revealed that Roethlisberger had been given a painkiller, which took some time to take effect.

“Because of lack of information and the situation not being a comfortable or ideal one, we would only re-insert him into the game if we felt it was necessary,” Tomlin said today. “As the game unfolded, obviously, it became necessary.”
However:

Tomlin was also asked during today’s presser whether falling behind created an emergency, even given the lack of information about Roethlisberger’s health. “If we felt like we needed Ben to win the game, we were willing to do it,” he said, before detailing why he brought none of this up during his postgame presser.
“I was not interested in discussing it after the game because I’m not a comfort-seeker; I don’t want to blame others,” Tomlin said. “I don’t care about the equipment, the speed in which the thing transpired, whether or not we were able to read it. That was the same equipment for both teams, et cetera, et cetera. So I said very little after the game. But obviously this [story] has had legs, and it had grown, and we want to minimize the senseless distractions, so I’m being very transparent with you in terms of what transpired, how, and why.”

In conclusion, the Steelers didn’t know how injured Roethlisberger was, but they somehow were confident enough he could return once his pain meds kicked in, if necessary, which turned out to be right after they fell behind, in a game they would lose anyway.

Also, their defense can’t hold a lead and their kicker can’t make a kick. I can’t imagine why their season seems to be falling apart

So, in 2018, I can walk into any Med Express, Urgent Care, etc in the United States, and get an xray. Also can have it read by the PA or Nurse Practitioner and have the results within 10 minutes of the xray. Yet, in 2018, in a professional football facility, with what I assume is a pretty damn good doctor reading the xray, the results were inconclusive? Seriously?

[Steel Maniac]

so after 4 different stories of how it went down, now everybody got together and made up one that sorta sounds believeable.........

Yep...because Tomlin knows how rediculous he looks not putting Ben back in the game immediately.

[squidkid]

Yep...because Tomlin knows how rediculous he looks not putting Ben back in the game immediately.


is so utterly absurd. sounds like the stories you would get from a little kid trying to get out of a lie

[JAR]

​It was reported Tuesday that Tomlin also said the process of getting the X-ray was “not very fluid” and that the X-ray technician at the Coliseum was temporarily unavailable. Tomlin said the Steelers got the X-rays at some point in the third quarter.
The setup in Oakland is awful. The X-ray machine is a long way from the field and up three flights of stairs.
There are certainly complications there that don’t arise in other stadiums.
In 1998, Chargers right tackle Vaughn Parker suffered a broken fibula while playing in Oakland. Our staff could not get him up the stairs, so Parker had to be carted out the opposite side of the stadium via a circuitous route.
Halfway up the ramp, the cart ran out of power. I sat with Parker while we waited for another cart.
After moving to the second cart, we had to travel outside the stadium, back to the opposite side of the Coliseum while enduring the catcalls of Raiders fans who were still tailgating in the parking lot during the game.
Even after the 20-minute process required to travel to the X-ray facility confirmed a broken ankle, we had no easy way to get Parker to the locker room. We actually took material to splint him in the X-ray room and then had him hobble down two flights of stairs with assistance.
Perhaps the best explanation, though, lies in Tomlin saying he decided in the second half to only use Roethlisberger if “necessary.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-ben-roethlisberger-ribs-xrays-1211-story.html

[squidkid]

its also been reported that ben was cleared as soon as he left the locker room
ben said the x rays were hard to read and inconclusive, not that it took a long time to develop and read.
tomlin said ben could have played a couple/few series earlier.....and on and on
just admit that you were so cocky that you thought you could beat a terrible team with your back up qb

[Steel Maniac]

its also been reported that ben was cleared as soon as he left the locker room
ben said the x rays were hard to read and inconclusive, not that it took a long time to develop and read.
tomlin said ben could have played a couple/few series earlier.....and on and on
just admit that you were so cocky that you thought you could beat a terrible team with your back up qb

Tomlin was being cocky; He thought he had the game in control. You could tell by his demeanor on the sideline at the time. He took the Raiders for granted because they were the worse team and the league and it bite him in the @ss. Which is consistant to how this team always plays down to bad teams; It starts at the top with Tomlin and he displayed it for all of us to see.

So when people in this poster room lie, and say Tomlin isn't the reason this team plays down to lesser teams, you can show them this tape where Tomlin specifically, held Ben out because he took the Raiders for granted.

Like Mark Schlereth said,.. the Steelers are an emotionally immature team and it starts with Tomlin.

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't see how you can make that determination about Tomlin losing his fire, desire and motivation skills. I'm fairly certain that earlier in the year there were threads saying that this may be the best job Tomlin has done keeping the team together, motivated and playing as a team. Now, all of a sudden, he doesn't want to be there anymore? I don't see it. He clearly enjoys the game, coaching and his players, they need to figure this out as a team.

Pappy

Agree strongly with this. This board is staring to be like listening to talking heads filling 5 minute segments before going to commercial. That format means that they pretty much have to stick to narrative BS instead of actually supporting ideas with evidence. Instead, they look to see if they won or lost last week. If won: players are amazing, coach is the best, team bound for the super bowl. If lost: players are terrible, coach should be fired, team destined for rebuild. It's super shallow because they need to fill up 24 hours of content in 5 minute increments without having any time to think.

We don't have that problem of format on a message board. I find message boards and podcasts far superior to main stream media because they can flesh out ideas.

[Steel Maniac]

Squid, the next idiot who tells you that Tomlin isn't the reason this team plays down to lesser teams, please remind them of how Tomlin did just that by holding Ben out til damn near the end of the game. Text book example.

[squidkid]

Squid, the next idiot who tells you that Tomlin isn't the reason this team plays down to lesser teams, please remind them of how Tomlin did just that by holding Ben out til damn near the end of the game. Text book example.


this team acts entitled because the coach acts entitled.
the attitude of this team is the biggest problem.

[Ghost]

https://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/breakfastwithbenz/14393296-74/tim-benz-are-the-steelers-liars-or-just-dumb

Interesting take if you have 2 minutes. The gist of the article: Are the Steelers liars or just dumb?

[SteelerOfDeVille]

just admit that you were so cocky that you thought you could beat a terrible team with your back up qb
period. end of story.

[NorthCoast]

So, in 2018, I can walk into any Med Express, Urgent Care, etc in the United States, and get an xray. Also can have it read by the PA or Nurse Practitioner and have the results within 10 minutes of the xray. Yet, in 2018, in a professional football facility, with what I assume is a pretty damn good doctor reading the xray, the results were inconclusive? Seriously?That professional football facility is 52 yrs old. Add in the fact that the Raiders are exiting in the next year, do you really think they would invest in state of the art equipment? I would not be shocked if it was 15 yr old technology.

[Northern_Blitz]

period. end of story.


There was an interesting interview with "Dr. Mel" on the Terrible Podcast.

She thought it was legitimate that the x-rays could be inconclusive, but that a doctor could clear Ben to play based on clinical judgement. Said that if lower ribs were broken, could be life threatening if they punctured organs. But that "inconclusive" probably meant no obvious break, so this probably wasn't an issue. Thought it was a mistake by Tomlin.

Also brought up another interesting point re: Tomlin seeming to legit care about well being of his players. She brought up the example of Ryan Clark being cleared to play in Denver after having his spleen removed, but Tomlin holding him out anyway due to safety concerns. She thought that this could be a similar thing.

So, I think that holding him out was a judgement call by Tomlin. I think it was probably a mistake because the Doctors seemed fairly sure that there wasn't a significant issue. But, I also think that Tomlin probably did it out of concern for Ben and not hubris (as implied by squid's post saying he should "just admit that [Tomin was] so cocky that [he] thought [he] could beat a terrible team with [his] back up QB").

Not saying it was the right decision. But, I do think it's understandable and not inconsistent with how he's treated players in the past.

[brothervad]

There was an interesting interview with "Dr. Mel" on the Terrible Podcast.

She thought it was legitimate that the x-rays could be inconclusive, but that a doctor could clear Ben to play based on clinical judgement. Said that if lower ribs were broken, could be life threatening if they punctured organs. But that "inconclusive" probably meant no obvious break, so this probably wasn't an issue. Thought it was a mistake by Tomlin.

Also brought up another interesting point re: Tomlin seeming to legit care about well being of his players. She brought up the example of Ryan Clark being cleared to play in Denver after having his spleen removed, but Tomlin holding him out anyway due to safety concerns. She thought that this could be a similar thing.

So, I think that holding him out was a judgement call by Tomlin. I think it was probably a mistake because the Doctors seemed fairly sure that there wasn't a significant issue. But, I also think that Tomlin probably did it out of concern for Ben and not hubris (as implied by squid's post saying he should "just admit that [Tomin was] so cocky that [he] thought [he] could beat a terrible team with [his] back up QB").

Not saying it was the right decision. But, I do think it's understandable and not inconsistent with how he's treated players in the past.

To be fair NB...

That is just as speculative if not moreso.

Ryan Clark has sickle cell anemia. Coach Tomlin was well aware of the risks in advance by medical staff.

Ben was cleared. There is a big difference between the two.

I will never know for sure (none of us will), but it is fair to say so. I am sure I can go back through Coach Tomlin's history and cherry pick an example where there was a significant injury in which he allowed a player to play.

I won't do it because frankly, I don't think that would prove or disprove your point. I just think it's fair to be critical given that Sunday was a must win for this club.

brothervad

[Northern_Blitz]

To be fair NB...

That is just as speculative if not moreso.

Ryan Clark has sickle cell anemia. Coach Tomlin was well aware of the risks in advance by medical staff.

Ben was cleared. There is a big difference between the two.

I will never know for sure (none of us will), but it is fair to say so. I am sure I can go back through Coach Tomlin's history and cherry pick an example where there was a significant injury in which he allowed a player to play.

I won't do it because frankly, I don't think that would prove or disprove your point. I just think it's fair to be critical given that Sunday was a must win for this club.

brothervad

My understanding is that Clark was cleared too (that was what they said in the interview anyway). But Tomlin still held him out of games in Denver after his incident.

I agree that it's pure speculation. Same as saying he did it because he was cocky. Well never know why. Only that he waited longer than he had to before putting Ben in.

[Steel Maniac]

If we lose this weekend to the pats, does the website firemiketomlin.com get started?

[NJ-STEELER]

That professional football facility is 52 yrs old. Add in the fact that the Raiders are exiting in the next year, do you really think they would invest in state of the art equipment? I would not be shocked if it was 15 yr old technology.

I'd say the NFLPA makes it mandatory. its the player's health at risk

and its not as expensive as you think to get latest technology. for any NFL team spending the amount they do on salaries, its pennies

[steelz09]

I'd say the NFLPA makes it mandatory. its the player's health at risk

and its not as expensive as you think to get latest technology. for any NFL team spending the amount they do on salaries, its pennies

Yup. The NFL and it's owners are swimming in cash.