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View Full Version : Yikes, highlight tape of Marcus Allen great on tackles, but not much on pass defense



SanAntonioSteelerFan
05-13-2018, 05:14 PM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13641328-74/new-steelers-safety-marcus-allen-gets-guidance-from-godfather-curtis-martin

Should I be worried that his highlight reel is so light on pass D?

SidSmythe
05-13-2018, 06:02 PM
Gerald Hollman (Louisville) was great on Pass D but terrible vs. the Run.
Maybe we could splice them together??

Buzz
05-13-2018, 06:27 PM
It's why he lasted until round 5 and why he almost certainly won't be utilized as a deep safety in the NFL. He's terrific in run support, bu unless he can improve his pass coverage abilities on short and intermediate routes, he may not be able to be much more than a special teams contributor. I think the hope is that he can develop his coverage skills enough to help the D as a "dimebacker"/SS role player.

Steel Maniac
05-13-2018, 06:30 PM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13641328-74/new-steelers-safety-marcus-allen-gets-guidance-from-godfather-curtis-martin

Should I be worried that his highlight reel is so light on pass D?

Oh no!!!! Not another MM!

Steel Maniac
05-13-2018, 06:31 PM
It's why he lasted until round 5 and why he almost certainly won't be utilized as a deep safety in the NFL. He's terrific in run support, bu unless he can improve his pass coverage abilities on short and intermediate routes, he may not be able to be much more than a special teams contributor. I think the hope is that he can develop his coverage skills enough to help the D as a "dimebacker"/SS role player.

Wow.. our first early strike of the season

pittpete
05-13-2018, 09:56 PM
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/13/17348474/mike-tomlin-impressed-with-steelers-rookie-safety-tandem-terrell-edmunds-marcus-allen-2018-nfl-draft

The Pittsburgh Steelers have a pair of rookies at minicamp this weekend, and Mike Tomlin likes what he sees — so far.

Buzz
05-13-2018, 10:00 PM
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/13/17348474/mike-tomlin-impressed-with-steelers-rookie-safety-tandem-terrell-edmunds-marcus-allen-2018-nfl-draft

The Pittsburgh Steelers have a pair of rookies at minicamp this weekend, and Mike Tomlin likes what he sees — so far.

Of course he does. What's he going to say after 2 days of minicamp, "Oops, don't know if we made such a good choice with these two"? :)

Seriously, something would be very wrong if those two DIDN'T stand out in this pool of rookies/undrafted FAs/tryout players. There will be much tougher tests to come. Hopefully they continue to shine when facing a better caliber of talent.

Steel Maniac
05-14-2018, 01:14 AM
Yep............
Tomlin isn’t going to say anything negative about anyone at this stage.

The Man of Steel
05-14-2018, 07:16 AM
Gerald Hollman (Louisville) was great on Pass D but terrible vs. the Run.
Maybe we could splice them together??
14 picks in just one season of college football sounded pretty impressive at the time though. I guess interceptions are just another one of those overrated statistics.

RuthlessBurgher
05-14-2018, 10:54 AM
I think that the team will ultimately ask Marcus Allen to bulk up a little bit and convert to a full time ILB like Mark Barron and Deone Buchanon did. He could be a backup to Jon Bostic at the Mack, while Tyler Matakevich backs up Vince Williams at the Buck. He may not get many (or any) snaps on defense as a rookie, though, as he attempts to make this transition. I expect him to be inactive more often than not in year one, since Nat Berhe is a more experienced special teams player.

Meanwhile, although not a starter per se, I think that Terrell Edmunds will be used on defense quite a bit during his rookie season as the third safety who enters the field in the big nickel or dime situations. He must know some linebacker concepts to function in that dimebacker role. Edmunds will be groomed as Morgan Burnett's eventual replacement at SS in time, though. If Burnett gets hurt, Edmunds starts at SS. If Davis gets hurt, Burnett slides over to FS and Edmunds starts at SS.

Slapstick
05-14-2018, 11:50 AM
I mentioned something similar in an earlier post...

Allen’s frame looks like it could add some additional weight...if he’s good around the line of scrimmage and good at tackling, keep him there...

feltdizz
05-14-2018, 12:45 PM
Worried about a 5th rounder? Not really... I keep expectations low for anything after the 4th round.

Iron City Inc.
05-14-2018, 02:27 PM
That Fiesta Bowl game showed some of Allen's weaknesses. Qb TD run for 50+ yds n he could not run him down. Reverse where he took himself out of the play. So he needs play recognition n his 2nd gear isn't there (4.63 40) but it's more then fast enough for a box safety n reading on the move can be taught so though to me he is a liability in cover 1 he should not be and won't be playing single high. He is more linebacker n there as a hybrid he looks the part. Allen was listed as a 3rd rounder by a lot of the so called experts but as a few of us discussed here prior to the draft his tape said 5th rounder as his strength is as a hybrid. He should do well for us in sub packages and after all we are in those packages 70% or more. He will get a hat on Sundays if he can bring it on special teams. All that will be determined at Latrobe n in pre-season so we'll have time to see exactly how he fits.

Shawn
05-15-2018, 05:29 AM
I think that the team will ultimately ask Marcus Allen to bulk up a little bit and convert to a full time ILB like Mark Barron and Deone Buchanon did. He could be a backup to Jon Bostic at the Mack, while Tyler Matakevich backs up Vince Williams at the Buck. He may not get many (or any) snaps on defense as a rookie, though, as he attempts to make this transition. I expect him to be inactive more often than not in year one, since Nat Berhe is a more experienced special teams player.

Meanwhile, although not a starter per se, I think that Terrell Edmunds will be used on defense quite a bit during his rookie season as the third safety who enters the field in the big nickel or dime situations. He must know some linebacker concepts to function in that dimebacker role. Edmunds will be groomed as Morgan Burnett's eventual replacement at SS in time, though. If Burnett gets hurt, Edmunds starts at SS. If Davis gets hurt, Burnett slides over to FS and Edmunds starts at SS. THIS...When I watched his tape I was thinking to myself this guy isn't much of a safety...not sure why some are excited. But, I started thinking we might be in an era where we start converting poor covering box safeties into LBs. Just like in the days that the Steelers began seeing value in tweeners...converting DEs into OLBs. I think we are there...and I agree that Allen will be asked to bulk a bit and play an ILB or at bare minimum a hybrid role where he isn't asked to play deep safety.

Ernie
05-15-2018, 06:28 AM
I see it as an investment on a great size/speed tackling machine. As Shawn stated he may very well be asked to put on 12-15 lb and play some ILB. In the days of the "Hybrid"...this kid looks to be a solid pick up in the 5th.

Oviedo
05-15-2018, 06:41 AM
I think that the team will ultimately ask Marcus Allen to bulk up a little bit and convert to a full time ILB like Mark Barron and Deone Buchanon did. He could be a backup to Jon Bostic at the Mack, while Tyler Matakevich backs up Vince Williams at the Buck. He may not get many (or any) snaps on defense as a rookie, though, as he attempts to make this transition. I expect him to be inactive more often than not in year one, since Nat Berhe is a more experienced special teams player.

Meanwhile, although not a starter per se, I think that Terrell Edmunds will be used on defense quite a bit during his rookie season as the third safety who enters the field in the big nickel or dime situations. He must know some linebacker concepts to function in that dimebacker role. Edmunds will be groomed as Morgan Burnett's eventual replacement at SS in time, though. If Burnett gets hurt, Edmunds starts at SS. If Davis gets hurt, Burnett slides over to FS and Edmunds starts at SS.

how much weight could his frame handle

Timmons had the body to handle 20-30 pounds. Not sure Allen has that body

Slapstick
05-15-2018, 08:33 AM
how much weight could his frame handle

Timmons had the body to handle 20-30 pounds. Not sure Allen has that body

He doesn’t need 20-30 pounds...some seasons, Farrior played at about Allen’s weight...10-15 pounds would be sufficient...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
05-15-2018, 09:19 AM
He doesnít need 20-30 pounds...some seasons, Farrior played at about Allenís weight...10-15 pounds would be sufficient...

With all this hybrid talk and stuff, is the elephant in the room still that we don't have a safety with strong 1-on-1 high coverage skills to cover the other team's #1 speedy WR?

Slapstick
05-15-2018, 10:05 AM
With all this hybrid talk and stuff, is the elephant in the room still that we don't have a safety with strong 1-on-1 high coverage skills to cover the other team's #1 speedy WR?

The idea is that both Burnett and Davis are capable of playing high safety...IMO, and I’ve posted it before, I think Mitchell and Davis should have flip-flopped positions...but, I think they trusted the veteran Mitchell with communicating and getting everyone lined up instead of the rookie and second year player Davis...

Now, Davis is in his third year with this defense and should be able to fill that role...Burnett can be an insurance policy...

Davis has the speed and range to be the high safety when needed...

Steel Maniac
05-15-2018, 10:10 AM
With all this hybrid talk and stuff, is the elephant in the room still that we don't have a safety with strong 1-on-1 high coverage skills to cover the other team's #1 speedy WR?

Why are you coming in here and saying realistic stuff? Can't you see we are in fantasy/ball washing land right now? Gzzzzz. Why confuse things with the truth?

RuthlessBurgher
05-15-2018, 10:22 AM
He doesn’t need 20-30 pounds...some seasons, Farrior played at about Allen’s weight...10-15 pounds would be sufficient...

Tampa drafted Mark Barron as a 213 pound safety. He is now a starting ILB for the Rams at 225 pounds.

Slapstick
05-15-2018, 10:39 AM
Why are you coming in here and saying realistic stuff? Can't you see we are in fantasy/ball washing land right now? Gzzzzz. Why confuse things with the truth?

Wow. Interesting post from someone who is so sensitive to being "attacked"...somebody might be offended...:lol::lol::lol:

Slapstick
05-15-2018, 10:40 AM
Tampa drafted Mark Barron as a 213 pound safety. He is now a starting ILB for the Rams at 225 pounds.

Kind of like Carnell Lake (the player) in reverse...

RuthlessBurgher
05-15-2018, 11:00 AM
Breaking down just how Marcus Allen can help the Steelers secondary

Seeing if Marcus Allen can give the Steelers’ secondary another weapon, or if he will be nothing more than a special teams ace.

By Jeff Hartman
May 15, 2018, 9:53am EDT

Many readers will probably roll their eyes when seeing this article and think, “Great. Another article about Marcus Allen.”

While Allen has been in the news, and on BTSC, the past week for signing his contract and wrapping up rookie minicamp, it is my goal to give fans a good look at the new players entering the fold for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Highlight reels are awesome, but they don’t tell the whole story with a player. This is where Draft Breakdown comes into play, and is a wonderful tool to help isolate a specific player on the field of play.

When watching a few breakdowns on Allen, which you can see below, you notice several things:

•He is a communicator

This is something Mike Tomlin noted about both Allen and first round pick Terrell Edmunds at rookie minicamp. It is usually Allen who is directing traffic in the back end of the secondary. A very positive sign for the often communication deficient Steelers’ secondary.

•The kid can tackle

Is he a perfect tackler? Not by any means, but he is a more sound tackler than a defensive back who simply throws his shoulder at the lower body of the ball carrier.

•Can overpursue

When you watch him coming down from the deep secondary into the box to make a play inn the open field, he often overpursues the ball carrier. I realize there are occasions when forcing someone inside, or outside, is important, but in most of these occasions you are expected to make the one-on-one tackle. Not a huge red flag, but something which needs attention at the NFL level.

•Has a tendency to disappear

No, he isn’t David Copperfield, but for a safety who is considered hard-hitting, there are occasions when you expect to see No. 2 flashing, but he rarely does. This likely has a lot to do with coverage responsibilities, and if the Steelers can put him in a position where his job is more singular, there is no doubt he can be successful.

After watching plenty of these breakdowns, it is difficult for me to see Allen being anything more than a special teams player in his rookie season. If he does etch out a niche for himself, it would be in a heavy sub package where he plays a box linebacker. He certainly needs work in the open field and playing a deep half position in the secondary.


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/15/17354138/breaking-down-just-how-marcus-allen-can-help-the-steelers-secondary-defense-2018-nfl-draft-news

Note: there are videos of Allen in the above link.

feltdizz
05-15-2018, 11:08 AM
He doesnít need 20-30 pounds...some seasons, Farrior played at about Allenís weight...10-15 pounds would be sufficient...

I saw Farrior in the Casino in Pittsburgh and I was surprised at how big he wasn't... lol.

Steel Maniac
05-15-2018, 11:08 AM
Thank you Ruth, that was frankly discouraging. LMFAO!!

SanAntonioSteelerFan
05-15-2018, 11:14 AM
The idea is that both Burnett and Davis are capable of playing high safety...IMO, and Iíve posted it before, I think Mitchell and Davis should have flip-flopped positions...but, I think they trusted the veteran Mitchell with communicating and getting everyone lined up instead of the rookie and second year player Davis...

Now, Davis is in his third year with this defense and should be able to fill that role...Burnett can be an insurance policy...

Davis has the speed and range to be the high safety when needed...

Hi Slap, that is encouraging news, I was wondering where the "young ones" as we used to call them were going to fit into this.

Fingers crossed!

Shawn
05-15-2018, 01:21 PM
The idea is that both Burnett and Davis are capable of playing high safety...IMO, and Iíve posted it before, I think Mitchell and Davis should have flip-flopped positions...but, I think they trusted the veteran Mitchell with communicating and getting everyone lined up instead of the rookie and second year player Davis...

Now, Davis is in his third year with this defense and should be able to fill that role...Burnett can be an insurance policy...

Davis has the speed and range to be the high safety when needed... Agreed. Davis does have the tools to fill this role. But, IMO this the year...and he needs to show consistent play.

Slapstick
05-15-2018, 01:24 PM
Agreed. Davis does have the tools to fill this role. But, IMO this the year...and he needs to show consistent play.

I also agree. I would like to see how he can react with everything in front of him...

RuthlessBurgher
06-04-2018, 11:28 AM
Joe Haden and Marcus Allen reflect on Steelers OTAs, helping young players and Tom Bradley

The Steelers’ defensive secondary has undergone some turnover, and two members of this unit talk about the changes, as well as expectations.

By Jeff Hartman
Jun 3, 2018, 12:44pm EDT

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ secondary will certainly have a new look to is in 2018. Gone are Mike Mitchell, Robert Golden and William Gay, and in their place are a slew of young athletes brimming with potential.

While fans don’t know the Steelers’ exact plans for players like Sean Davis, Terrell Edmunds, Marcus Allen and Cameron Sutton, there is a good chance they will have a ton of options in the back half of the defense when it comes to the utilization of defensive packages and alignment.

The one player in the defensive secondary who is labeled as a true veteran would be Joe Haden. Haden, who was a first round draft pick by the Cleveland Browns in the 2010 NFL Draft, recently spoke with media regarding his thoughts on the young players on the team, the new secondary coach Tom Bradley and expectations for the defense as a whole.

Check out Haden’s interview below:

Joe Haden talks about filling the leadership role in defensive backfield, his support for the @cavs in the #NBAFinals, building chemistry during OTAs and more. pic.twitter.com/W4iOaY6jdp
— Pittsburgh Steelers (@steelers) June 1, 2018

Speaking of those young, athletic and talented safeties on the team’s roster, Marcus Allen would certainly make the list. While fans have a decent idea what will be happening with Terrell Edmunds, Allen’s skill set is different. He is a downhill player who loves to play in the box and attack ball carriers. Outside of special teams, what will the Steelers do with him?

Only Keith Butler and Tom Bradley know for sure, but Allen is excited to contribute anyway possible — including on special teams. He was the recipient of the Player Spotlight for the Steelers official website, and you can hear him talk about being around the veterans, his new secondary coach and of course his expectations heading into the season.

Marcus Allen talks about hitting the field with the veterans, the advice they have provided, learning from DB Coach Bradley, rooming with Terrell Edmunds and more. pic.twitter.com/bFDDKZgFIu
— Pittsburgh Steelers (@steelers) May 30, 2018


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/6/3/17418024/joe-haden-marcus-allen-reflect-on-steelers-otas-helping-young-players-and-tom-bradley-defense-nfl