Steelers got the best QB in the draft!

[Donnieboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKJ9NYaZp3M

[Shawn]

The write up from NFL.com

Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

[Donnieboy]

The write up from NFL.com

Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

I challenge you and anyone else, to look at the youtube highlight clip and tell me that he isn't a precision QB with above average arm strength. And if you do, tell us why. Look at the slant passes he throws from the run option reads. Accurate, precise, quick, and with zip every time. His arm strength is better than that of Tom Brady coming out of college.

[feltdizz]

I hope so but looking at a few youtube clips of games where they show every pass I still have my reservations.

Pros: nice arm, great touch on the long ball, dude is big as hell but can move

Neg: always in shotgun, looked like he always went with the first read but lacked touch on dump offs to RB's. Threw a lot of questionable passes deep that will be INT's in the pros.

The best thing is he will have a chance to learn for a year or 2 but I see a lot of similarities with Landry Jones.

His tape vs TCU of all 34 passes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZhZd6y7mI4

[Donnieboy]

The write up from NFL.com

Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

Using the same source (NFL.com), who you think it the best QB in the draft, Lamar Jackson...

Overview
Evaluating Jackson against the NFL standards for the position will cause him to come up short. However, he has rare speed and athleticism and can single-handedly win games. Jackson's accuracy is clearly spotty and teams must decide the level of accuracy they are willing to live with relative to his ability to create explosive plays. Jackson may need to operate in an offense ready to integrate RPOs (run/pass options) along with heavy play-action. Like Deshaun Watson in 2017, Jackson has the ability to counter mental mistakes and turnovers with a high number of explosive, touchdown-making plays. He has star potential, but his success will rest heavily upon his ability to stay healthy.

Weaknesses
• Lackadaisical in setup
• Throws with excessively narrow base and stiff front side
• Flips it rather than throws it
• Makes targets work too hard
• Sails throws that can end up in hands of a safety
• At times, hesitates to challenge safeties in the seam
• Low release point leads to tipped passes
• Typically gets through reads 1 and 2 before halting progressions
• Pocket awareness has room for improvement
• Move accuracy on rollouts and scrambles is poor
• Highly inaccurate with throws on the move throughout the 2017 season
• Underthrown deep balls allow cornerbacks to play the ball
• Lacks touch over the heads of middle linebackers into intermediate pockets
• Turnover total still too high

[feltdizz]

I challenge you and anyone else, to look at the youtube highlight clip and tell me that he isn't a precision QB with above average arm strength. And if you do, tell us why. Look at the slant passes he throws from the run option reads. Accurate, precise, quick, and with zip every time. His arm strength is better than that of Tom Brady coming out of college.

of course highlights show all the positive.

I think finding a few games where they show every pass is a better way to see his positives and negatives.

it will be fun watching him this preseason. His long ball is nice but he definitely looked like his mind was made up before the snap on most of his passes.

[Shawn]

I challenge you and anyone else, to look at the youtube highlight clip and tell me that he isn't a precision QB with above average arm strength. And if you do, tell us why. Look at the slant passes he throws from the run option reads. Accurate, precise, quick, and with zip every time. His arm strength is better than that of Tom Brady coming out of college. LMAO...you lost me at youtube highlight clips.

[Slapstick]

Sounds like Big Ben...

[Donnieboy]

I
Neg: always in shotgun, looked like he always went with the first read but lacked touch on dump offs to RB's. Threw a lot of questionable passes deep that will be INT's in the pros.

In today's NFL, most QB's are more times than not in the shotgun. How is that a negative? Ben?.......

Over the course of the 2017 regular season, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger played a total of 1060 snaps, factoring in everything, including no-plays, pre-snap penalties, two-point conversion attempts, etc. he only lined up under center for 295 of those plays, or 27.8 percent of the time.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/ben-roethlisberger-barely-plays-center-anymore/

[Shawn]

Using the same source (NFL.com), who you think it the best QB in the draft, Lamar Jackson...

Overview
Evaluating Jackson against the NFL standards for the position will cause him to come up short. However, he has rare speed and athleticism and can single-handedly win games. Jackson's accuracy is clearly spotty and teams must decide the level of accuracy they are willing to live with relative to his ability to create explosive plays. Jackson may need to operate in an offense ready to integrate RPOs (run/pass options) along with heavy play-action. Like Deshaun Watson in 2017, Jackson has the ability to counter mental mistakes and turnovers with a high number of explosive, touchdown-making plays. He has star potential, but his success will rest heavily upon his ability to stay healthy.

Weaknesses
• Lackadaisical in setup
• Throws with excessively narrow base and stiff front side
• Flips it rather than throws it
• Makes targets work too hard
• Sails throws that can end up in hands of a safety
• At times, hesitates to challenge safeties in the seam
• Low release point leads to tipped passes
• Typically gets through reads 1 and 2 before halting progressions
• Pocket awareness has room for improvement
• Move accuracy on rollouts and scrambles is poor
• Highly inaccurate with throws on the move throughout the 2017 season
• Underthrown deep balls allow cornerbacks to play the ball
• Lacks touch over the heads of middle linebackers into intermediate pockets
• Turnover total still too high

Jackson went in the first round. Second, I didn't use youtube clips to evaluate him...nor did I use NFL or any other scouts information to evaluate him.

[Donnieboy]

LMAO...you lost me at youtube highlight clips.

You lost me at quoting an article instead of giving insight yourself. You listen/read what someone else says and think it's golden pony boy! lol!! Funny.

[Donnieboy]

Jackson went in the first round. Second, I didn't use youtube clips to evaluate him...nor did I use NFL or any other scouts information to evaluate him.

Johnny Manzel went in the first round as well. So what? Every year, the NFL misses on QB's. They do it all the time.

[feltdizz]

In today's NFL, most QB's are more times than not in the shotgun. How is that a negative? Ben?.......

Over the course of the 2017 regular season, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger played a total of 1060 snaps, factoring in everything, including no-plays, pre-snap penalties, two-point conversion attempts, etc. he only lined up under center for 295 of those plays, or 27.8 percent of the time.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/ben-roethlisberger-barely-plays-center-anymore/

It's a negative because you still have to take 27% of your snaps under center. It's pretty much the first thing they will have him working on this preseason. Landry and Dobbs also had to work on this. It's just part of being a well rounded QB since there will be at least 25% of our plays that won't be in shotgun.

dropping back, footwork, handing the ball of to the RB, ball security... it's a negative until he proves he won't struggle and/or limit our playbook.

He may be a natural but I'm just going by the film I watched.

also, is looking to the sideline for the play a negative? HAHA.. I remember someone sued that to bash Lamar Jackson and I just noticed that Rudolph did the same thing. I can't believe people tried to use that as proof Lamar can't make the transition. Most QB's look to the sidelines these days in college

[Donnieboy]

It's a negative because you still have to take 27% of your snaps under center. It's pretty much the first thing they will have him working on this preseason. Landry and Dobbs also had to work on this. It's just part of being a well rounded QB since there will be at least 25% of our plays that won't be in shotgun.

dropping back, footwork, handing the ball of to the RB, ball security... it's a negative until he proves he won't struggle and/or limit our playbook.

He may be a natural but I'm just going by the film I watched.

also, is looking to the sideline for the play a negative? HAHA.. I remember someone sued that to bash Lamar Jackson and I just noticed that Rudolph did the same thing. I can't believe people tried to use that as proof Lamar can't make the transition. Most QB's look to the sidelines these days in college

I hear what you are saying and respect your thoughts however, being under center and turning around to hand off the ball and the foot work required for that isn't all that hard for these QB's...especially when they did that the majority of time in high school and Pop Warner. What is much more important is this...Roethlisberger threw 503 of his 561 passes from the shotgun last year. About 90 pct of the time.

[Shawn]

You lost me at quoting an article instead of giving insight yourself. You listen/read what someone else says and think it's golden pony boy! lol!! Funny. I've actually already done a write up on Rudolph. If you are interested in my opinion, look it up.

[Oviedo]

I hope so but looking at a few youtube clips of games where they show every pass I still have my reservations.

Pros: nice arm, great touch on the long ball, dude is big as hell but can move

Neg: always in shotgun, looked like he always went with the first read but lacked touch on dump offs to RB's. Threw a lot of questionable passes deep that will be INT's in the pros.

The best thing is he will have a chance to learn for a year or 2 but I see a lot of similarities with Landry Jones.

His tape vs TCU of all 34 passes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZhZd6y7mI4

That is why he is in the perfect situation with a team to develop him over the next couple years

[feltdizz]

I hear what you are saying and respect your thoughts however, being under center and turning around to hand off the ball and the foot work required for that isn't all that hard for these QB's...especially when they did that the majority of time in high school and Pop Warner. What is much more important is this...Roethlisberger threw 503 of his 561 passes from the shotgun last year. About 90 pct of the time.

I'm not worried about Ben but he wasn't in shotgun as much when he started.

I think it's important and nope, these days kids are running the spread in HS

It's still brought up as a concern when college QB's hit the pros. They have to show they can take snaps from center.

[feltdizz]

That is why he is in the perfect situation with a team to develop him over the next couple years

yep, but I really believe he is going to be another Landry Jones. I hope he proves me wrong.

[Shawn]

Johnny Manzel went in the first round as well. So what? Every year, the NFL misses on QB's. They do it all the time. My point is this...franchise QBs rarely fall to the 3rd. I have watched the film, and I seen an average armed, average accuracy QB who was a system QB. I'm not saying he doesn't have upside. I like his deep touch. I think he was a solid value in the third. I'm curious to see how he develops.

[Donnieboy]

A couple of things here and I'll be done with this.....for now.

Shawn I do not need to read your write ups. You think Lamar Jackson is the best QB in this draft, or at least at one time you did. Lamar Jackson is probably the most inaccurate QB from this draft. He is a less than 60 pct passer in college. Again, I don't need to read what you have to say about Mason Rudolph. \

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield all pretty much came from the same type of offense as that of Mason Rudolph.

I watched every one of Sam Darnold's games. This past season his completion percentage dropped significantly. His TD's went down and his int's went up. Because he has a slightly stronger arm he's that much better than Mason Rudolph? I think not. Josh Rosen and Josh Allen's performances the past two years? Not really 1st round talent. Look at their numbers. Ho-hum.

Franchise QB's rarely don't last to round 3? I beg to differ. There are quite a few who have. And if we add the second round this list below goes up significantly.

Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton
Norm Van Brocklin
Warren Moon undrafted
Kurt Warner undrafted

[Donnieboy]

My point is this...franchise QBs rarely fall to the 3rd. I have watched the film, and I seen an average armed, average accuracy QB who was a system QB. I'm not saying he doesn't have upside. I like his deep touch. I think he was a solid value in the third. I'm curious to see how he develops.

What film? Youtube? Or do NFL and colleges send you game tape? Never mind. Lol!!

[Shawn]

A couple of things here and I'll be done with this.....for now.

Shawn I do not need to read your write ups. You think Lamar Jackson is the best QB in this draft, or at least at one time you did. Lamar Jackson is probably the most inaccurate QB from this draft. He is a less than 60 pct passer in college. Again, I don't need to read what you have to say about Mason Rudolph. \

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield all pretty much came from the same type of offense as that of Mason Rudolph.

I watched every one of Sam Darnold's games. This past season his completion percentage dropped significantly. His TD's went down and his int's went up. Because he has a slightly stronger arm he's that much better than Mason Rudolph? I think not. Josh Rosen and Josh Allen's performances the past two years? Not really 1st round talent. Look at their numbers. Ho-hum.

Franchise QB's rarely don't last to round 3? I beg to differ. There are quite a few who have. And if we add the second round this list below goes up significantly.

Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton
Norm Van Brocklin
Warren Moon undrafted
Kurt Warner undrafted Well good. If my opinion means that little to you then why are you debating me?

[Shawn]

What film? Youtube? Or do NFL and colleges send you game tape? Never mind. Lol!! Again, I have discussed this ad nauseam in the past. Theres a site that has full game breakdowns. Do some research.

[Donnieboy]

The..."Game Over...Lamar Jackson...Ravens" thread is very telling. I do not need to argue, debate, or go to much into detail with you Shawn. Lamar Jackson is a below average passing QB with many flaws in his game as a QB. But because he can run real fast you are very high on him.

Sounds like you are going to miss the boat on most solid QB prospects.

Have a good day Shawn.

[Donnieboy]

Getting back to my original post, from this youtube clip, can anyone here show me where Rudolph shows a weak arm? Below average arm strength? Not precise or accurate? Lack of escapability? Not able to make plays when things break down in the pocket? This clip is about 7 and half minutes long and about 50 pass attempts.

[Shawn]

The..."Game Over...Lamar Jackson...Ravens" thread is very telling. I do not need to argue, debate, or go to much into detail with you Shawn. Lamar Jackson is a below average passing QB with many flaws in his game as a QB. But because he can run real fast you are very high on him.

Sounds like you are going to miss the boat on most solid QB prospects.

Have a good day Shawn. LOL...if you say so...yet you keep arguing and debating.

[Shawn]

Getting back to my original post, from this youtube clip, can anyone here show me where Rudolph shows a weak arm? Below average arm strength? Not precise or accurate? Lack of escapability? Not able to make plays when things break down in the pocket? This clip is about 7 and half minutes long and about 50 pass attempts. It's a highlight reel for a reason. Never evaluate talent from a youtube clip.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Franchise QB's rarely don't last to round 3? I beg to differ. There are quite a few who have. And if we add the second round this list below goes up significantly.

Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton
Norm Van Brocklin
Warren Moon undrafted
Kurt Warner undrafted

Quite a few, eh?

You listed only one name from this decade (Russell Wilson 2012), one name from the previous decade (Tom Brady 2000), and one name from the decade before that (Kurt Warner 1994). Not exactly the strongest argument, brother..

The rest of your list came from long, long ago when scouting was nothing whatsoever like it is today, back in the 70's (Joe Montana 1979, Warren Moon 1978, Dan Fouts 1973, Joe Theismann 1971), the 60's (Roger Staubach 1964, Fran Tarkenton 1961), the 50's (Bart Starr 1956, Johnny Unitas 1955), and even the 40's (Norm Van Brocklin 1949).

[The Man of Steel]

Neil O’Donnell and Bubby Brister were both 3rd round draft picks and look how spectacular they turned out to be for the Steelers.

[Donnieboy]

I guess I'm not alone. Steelers ranked Mason Rudolph among draft's top QBs

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930369/article/steelers-ranked-mason-rudolph-among-drafts-top-qbs

[feltdizz]

Getting back to my original post, from this youtube clip, can anyone here show me where Rudolph shows a weak arm? Below average arm strength? Not precise or accurate? Lack of escapability? Not able to make plays when things break down in the pocket? This clip is about 7 and half minutes long and about 50 pass attempts.

My TCU game film has all his flaws on display. He isn’t a bad QB but sheesh, are you really asking people to critique his best plays in a highlight real instead all the other tape on YouTube of his individual games?

Did you also just imply YouTube wasn’t an accurate way to critique a player after linking to YouTube?

[Shawn]

My TCU game film has all his flaws on display. He isn’t a bad QB but sheesh, are you really asking people to critique his best plays in a highlight real instead all the other tape on YouTube of his individual games?

Did you also just imply YouTube wasn’t an accurate way to critique a player after linking to YouTube? It's why I can't take this post seriously. It is entertaining though.

[feltdizz]

I guess I'm not alone. Steelers ranked Mason Rudolph among draft's top QBs

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930369/article/steelers-ranked-mason-rudolph-among-drafts-top-qbs

Thank goodness he lasted until the 3rd.

[feltdizz]

It's why I can't take this post seriously. It is entertaining though.

yes, it’s fun to debate this stuff.

I almost posted Sweeds highlight film. “Show me the drops!!! I double dog dare you”

[Donnieboy]

My TCU game film has all his flaws on display. He isn’t a bad QB but sheesh, are you really asking people to critique his best plays in a highlight real instead all the other tape on YouTube of his individual games?

Did you also just imply YouTube wasn’t an accurate way to critique a player after linking to YouTube?

My point is that on the clip there are about 50 throws. More than you would see him make at the combine. In the clip he pretty much covers every single throw a QB is required to make. There are those who question his arm strength, accuracy, and precision. You do not see it here. In fact you see the exact opposite.

I'm not the one who questioned youtube clips. It was Shawn. I just simply threw it back into his face.

[Donnieboy]

It's why I can't take this post seriously. It is entertaining though.

And what does this fall under?

"Game Over...Lamar Jackson...Ravens"

Me using a youtube clip is less serious, less ridiculous than that? :p

[Shawn]

yes, it’s fun to debate this stuff.

I almost posted Sweeds highlight film. “Show me the drops!!! I double dog dare you” Lol...that would be savagery. We are trying to have a civil conversation here Dizz.

[Shawn]

My point is that on the clip there are about 50 throws. More than you would see him make at the combine. In the clip he pretty much covers every single throw a QB is required to make. There are those who question his arm strength, accuracy, and precision. You do not see it here. In fact you see the exact opposite.

I'm not the one who questioned youtube clips. It was Shawn. I just simply threw it back into his face. Listen, you are right...his best 50 throws were quite superb. He is the next Joe Montana. Feel better?

[Shawn]

And what does this fall under?

"Game Over...Lamar Jackson...Ravens"

Me using a youtube clip is less serious, less ridiculous than that? :p After Jackson shreds our porous D...you let me know.

[Donnieboy]

Jackson went in the first round....

MARK SANCHEZ
JOSH FREEMAN
JAMARCUS RUSSELL
VINCE YOUNG
MATT LEINART
BYRON LEFTWICH
DAVID CARR
JOEY HARRINGTON
TIM COUCH
AKILI SMITH
CADE MCNOWN
RYAN LEAF
HEATH SHULER
RICK MIRER
DAVID KLINGLER
ANDRE WARE
KELLY STOUFFER
TODD BLACKLEDGE
ART SCHLICHTER
JACK THOMPSON
JERRY TAGGE
BRANDON WEEDON
Brady QUINN
J.P. LOSMAN
JAY CUTLER
CHRISTIAN PONDER
KYLE BOLLLER
JASON CAMPBELL
REX GROSSMAN
PATRICK RAMSEY
CHAD PENNINGTON
MARK MALONE
RICHARD TODD
JEFF GEORGE
RICH CAMPBELL
TOMMY MADDOX
KELLY STOUFFER
JIM DRUCKEMILLER
MIKE PHIPPS
TIM COUCH
JOHNNY MANZIEL
DAN McGWIRE
TODD MARANOVICH
ROBERT GRIFFIN III
PAXTON LYNCH
TIM TEBOW
BLAINE GABBERT
JAKE LOCKER

......I'm sorry, what was that? :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

[Shawn]

MARK SANCHEZ
JOSH FREEMAN
JAMARCUS RUSSELL
VINCE YOUNG
MATT LEINART
BYRON LEFTWICH
DAVID CARR
JOEY HARRINGTON
TIM COUCH
AKILI SMITH
CADE MCNOWN
RYAN LEAF
HEATH SHULER
RICK MIRER
DAVID KLINGLER
ANDRE WARE
KELLY STOUFFER
TODD BLACKLEDGE
ART SCHLICHTER
JACK THOMPSON
JERRY TAGGE
BRANDON WEEDON
Brady QUINN
J.P. LOSMAN
JAY CUTLER
CHRISTIAN PONDER
KYLE BOLLLER
JASON CAMPBELL
REX GROSSMAN
PATRICK RAMSEY
CHAD PENNINGTON
MARK MALONE
RICHARD TODD
JEFF GEORGE
RICH CAMPBELL
TOMMY MADDOX
KELLY STOUFFER
JIM DRUCKEMILLER
MIKE PHIPPS
TIM COUCH
JOHNNY MANZIEL
DAN McGWIRE
TODD MARANOVICH
ROBERT GRIFFIN III
PAXTON LYNCH
TIM TEBOW
BLAINE GABBERT
JAKE LOCKER

......I'm sorry, what was that? :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

That's a sloppy point. What percentage of NFL starters come from the first round vs the third round?

[Shawn]

Let me give you some help, 60+% of first rounders became NFL starters...and less than 20% third rounders became NFL starters.

[Donnieboy]

After Jackson shreds our porous D...you let me know.

A run first QB who has no clue what he’s doing inside the pocket, and is more of a thrower than a passer, a sub-60 percent completion rate, who struggles with accuracy and ball placement?...yeah I don’t so. You're more off on Jackson than you are on Rudolph. :p

[Donnieboy]

Let me give you some help, 60+% of first rounders became NFL starters...and less than 20% third rounders became NFL starters.

Who cares? And what does that have to do with anything? Mason Rudolph is going to be an exception. Sorry you can't see it.

[Donnieboy]

That's a sloppy point. What percentage of NFL starters come from the first round vs the third round?

You are the one who implied Jackson is better because he was the first round pick. Now what was the sloppy point?

[Iron City Inc.]

You guys are making me wish I was at Latrobe with my Depo buds watching every aspect of this kids development. Soon enough boys. Soon enough.

[Shawn]

A run first QB who has no clue what he’s doing inside the pocket, and is more of a thrower than a passer, a sub-60 percent completion rate, who struggles with accuracy and ball placement?...yeah I don’t so. You're more off on Jackson than you are on Rudolph. :p you get that opinion off YouTube highlights as well?

[Shawn]

Who cares? And what does that have to do with anything? Mason Rudolph is going to be an exception. Sorry you can't see it. lol yes because YouTube highlights told you so. Listen, Rudolph might be the second coming of Dan Marino. But the way you do your homework is sloppy. I like the pick personally. I think he’s a solid third round value. I don’t see a franchise QB but anything can happen. With all that said, you picked a random set of highlights and rolled the dice with your prediction without putting any real work in on evaluation. If that’s the way you roll, that’s cool. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously.

[Donnieboy]

you get that opinion off YouTube highlights as well?

Sub 60pct passer in college are his stats (57pct for his career). That's not an opinion. Everything else said by me regarding him a direct connection to his stats.

[Rara]

A couple of things here and I'll be done with this.....for now.

Shawn I do not need to read your write ups. You think Lamar Jackson is the best QB in this draft, or at least at one time you did. Lamar Jackson is probably the most inaccurate QB from this draft. He is a less than 60 pct passer in college. Again, I don't need to read what you have to say about Mason Rudolph. \

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield all pretty much came from the same type of offense as that of Mason Rudolph.

I watched every one of Sam Darnold's games. This past season his completion percentage dropped significantly. His TD's went down and his int's went up. Because he has a slightly stronger arm he's that much better than Mason Rudolph? I think not. Josh Rosen and Josh Allen's performances the past two years? Not really 1st round talent. Look at their numbers. Ho-hum.

Franchise QB's rarely don't last to round 3? I beg to differ. There are quite a few who have. And if we add the second round this list below goes up significantly.

Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton
Norm Van Brocklin
Warren Moon undrafted
Kurt Warner undrafted

Dak Prescott was a fourth rounder. Did pretty decent.

[Donnieboy]

Dak Prescott was a fourth rounder. Did pretty decent.

yes thank you. Good point. Those were just some off the top of my head.

[Donnieboy]

lol yes because YouTube highlights told you so. Listen, Rudolph might be the second coming of Dan Marino. But the way you do your homework is sloppy. I like the pick personally. I think he’s a solid third round value. I don’t see a franchise QB but anything can happen. With all that said, you picked a random set of highlights and rolled the dice with your prediction without putting any real work in on evaluation. If that’s the way you roll, that’s cool. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously.

Sorry buddy I was saying these things about Mason Rudolph before we drafted him. In fact I posted some here on this side. And it was all based on watching him play.

[Rara]

yes, it’s fun to debate this stuff.

I almost posted Sweeds highlight film. “Show me the drops!!! I double dog dare you”

If you do..PLEASE post the time he was watching himself trying to catch the ball and misses on the jumbotron... that still cracks me up.

[Donnieboy]

Shawn....Lamar Jackson's TD to INT ratio in college, 69 to 27, not all that good. Sorry. Inaccurate and really unimpressive throwing wise. Why is he going to be a great QB in the NFL again?

[NorthCoast]

Maybe this will settle things a bit on which QB will thrive in the NFL. Have to say his metrics are pretty interesting and it might surprise you to find out which QBs end up short and which will shine. btw, this author thinks this QB class isn't all that special to begin with:


https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/5/17046116/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-josh-allen-sam-darnold-projections-hype

btw Shawn, you might be disappointed in who Jackson is projected to be closest to in the pros.

[Prowler]

Lamar Jackson will be a star in a triple option offense........ wait a minute, no teams in the NFL run that offense. With that in mind, he'll be the next RG3 or Vince Young. Athletic but incapable of running a pro style offense, injured often and out of the NFL by the end of his first contract!

[Steel Maniac]

Sorry buddy I was saying these things about Mason Rudolph before we drafted him. In fact I posted some here on this side. And it was all based on watching him play.

I went on record before the draft that I too thought Mayfield and Rudolph would pan out. So I’m not being bias either.

Donnie, this debate won’t get settled today; that’s why I stopped debating Shawn about L. Jackson.

[Shawn]

Sub 60pct passer in college are his stats (57pct for his career). That's not an opinion. Everything else said by me regarding him a direct connection to his stats. Again, when you don't take into account a terrible WR core and a terrible OL and just look at stats and highlight reels its a poor evaluation strategy. But, honestly Im done going rounds with you.

[Shawn]

I went on record before the draft that I too thought Mayfield and Rudolph would pan out. So I’m not being bias either.

Donnie, this debate won’t get settled today; that’s why I stopped debating Shawn about L. Jackson. LOL...yes great minds think alike. You put your opinion together by stats and youtube highlight reels too?

[feltdizz]

Again, when you don't take into account a terrible WR core and a terrible OL and just look at stats and highlight reels its a poor evaluation strategy. But, honestly Im done going rounds with you.
Watch Lamar vs FSU on YouTube. WR’s dropped some beautiful passes in the end zone. Right in the bread basket.

[Steelerphile]

Put me in the category that thinks Rudolph was a really good selection for the Steelers. It is interesting that a lot of the players the Steelers drafted, played on teams on Pitt's schedule. But I remember watching Rudolph light Pitt up last year and thinking the Steelers should consider this guy in the draft. He is reminiscent of Roethlisberger. He is tall 6' 5", and throws a very accurate deep ball. He had a great command of OSU offense. I thought he made great decisions and was clearly the best QB Pitt faced last year.

I think he is much better than your average 3rd round QB and the Steelers were fortunate to get him there. The reason he dropped to the third may have something to do with the fact that 5 QBs went in the first round. And the demand for QBs went down. Maybe they were perceived as being more dynamic in terms of arm strength or athleticism, but I think Rudolph definitely has enough arm strength is more mature and a better decision maker than most of the others.

There was a group of fans last year that argued vehemently against the Ju-Ju selection, and they were proven flatly wrong. It is going to take longer on Rudolph because he isn't going play a lot early in his career, but the Steelers can certainly end their search and I am very comfortable with this pick.

When you look at some of the QBs taken in the 1st round in the recent years; such a Mitchell Trubisky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Jack Lockler, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, I would be willing to bet that Rudolph will turn out better than anyone of this list, but it will take a while to find out.

[Captain Lemming]

Put me in the category that thinks Rudolph was a really good selection for the Steelers. It is interesting that a lot of the players the Steelers drafted, played on teams on Pitt's schedule. But I remember watching Rudolph light Pitt up last year and thinking the Steelers should consider this guy in the draft. He is reminiscent of Roethlisberger. He is tall 6' 5", and throws a very accurate deep ball. He had a great command of OSU offense. I thought he made great decisions and was clearly the best QB Pitt faced last year.

I think he is much better than your average 3rd round QB and the Steelers were fortunate to get him there. The reason he dropped to the third may have something to do with the fact that 5 QBs went in the first round. And the demand for QBs went down. Maybe they were perceived as being more dynamic in terms of arm strength or athleticism, but I think Rudolph definitely has enough arm strength is more mature and a better decision maker than most of the others.

There was a group of fans last year that argued vehemently against the Ju-Ju selection, and they were proven flatly wrong. It is going to take longer on Rudolph because he isn't going play a lot early in his career, but the Steelers can certainly end their search and I am very comfortable with this pick.

When you look at some of the QBs taken in the 1st round in the recent years; such a Mitchell Trubisky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Jack Lockler, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, I would be willing to bet that Rudolph will turn out better than anyone of this list, but it will take a while to find out.


I think this is the best assesment yet. I think Rudolph was 1st round abilty but dropped because this class had so many QBs drafted early so teams with real QB needs got their guy.
It was a rare opportunity to get a guy who has legit potential FAR later that he would otherwise be drafted.

What is funny is that I am not convinced in all the guys who were drafted ahead of him. I dont think the draft class was really all that deep, we just have a few "fools gold" type QBs who were way overdrafted based on "talent" versus "skill".

While it is alway hard to know for sure, I dont see a great difference in the odds of our guy versus the others drafted ahead of him.

Rudolph is a perfect fit for the kind of player who goes later than he should but has a HOF career (not "elite" arm strength, but strong enough and accurate)..
He fits the mold of the Joe Montana and Tom Brady types get missed by every team in the league.

[feltdizz]

A run first QB who has no clue what he’s doing inside the pocket, and is more of a thrower than a passer, a sub-60 percent completion rate, who struggles with accuracy and ball placement?...yeah I don’t so. You're more off on Jackson than you are on Rudolph. :p

How do you throw for over 7200 yards and 57 TD's his last 2 years if you are a run first QB?

[feltdizz]

Put me in the category that thinks Rudolph was a really good selection for the Steelers. It is interesting that a lot of the players the Steelers drafted, played on teams on Pitt's schedule. But I remember watching Rudolph light Pitt up last year and thinking the Steelers should consider this guy in the draft. He is reminiscent of Roethlisberger. He is tall 6' 5", and throws a very accurate deep ball. He had a great command of OSU offense. I thought he made great decisions and was clearly the best QB Pitt faced last year.

I think he is much better than your average 3rd round QB and the Steelers were fortunate to get him there. The reason he dropped to the third may have something to do with the fact that 5 QBs went in the first round. And the demand for QBs went down. Maybe they were perceived as being more dynamic in terms of arm strength or athleticism, but I think Rudolph definitely has enough arm strength is more mature and a better decision maker than most of the others.

There was a group of fans last year that argued vehemently against the Ju-Ju selection, and they were proven flatly wrong. It is going to take longer on Rudolph because he isn't going play a lot early in his career, but the Steelers can certainly end their search and I am very comfortable with this pick.

When you look at some of the QBs taken in the 1st round in the recent years; such a Mitchell Trubisky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Jack Lockler, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, I would be willing to bet that Rudolph will turn out better than anyone of this list, but it will take a while to find out.

It's definitely dd how some QB's are considered first rounders when you see some obvious flaws in their game. I'm not sure why Rudolph dropped but once site said he didn't have that alpha dog in him. With all those yards and all that size it definitely makes me wonder what teams didn't see in him.

One could say Rudolph fell because he needs a few years to develop and those teams don't have the patience/luxury to wait that long.

I watched both PITT games these last 2 years and there is really nothing you can take away from him in those games because PITT's secondary STINKS!!!

It was basically a pro day for Rudolph last year at Heinz Field.

[Captain Lemming]

How do you throw for over 7200 yards and 57 TD's his last 2 years if you are a run first QB?


Unless you run an option, there pretty much is no such thing as a literal "run first" QB.
In this context, I believe he means a guy who constantly looks at running possibilities on passing downs.

During his career Jackson has more rush attempts than he has completions. True his team limitations force him a bit but DANG that is a whole lot of run attempts by a QB,.

[feltdizz]

Unless you run an option, there pretty much is no such thing as a literal "run first" QB.
In this context, I believe he means a guy who constantly looks at running possibilities on passing downs.

During his career Jackson has more rush attempts than he has completions. True his team limitations force him a bit but DANG that is a whole lot of run attempts by a QB,.

Gotcha

I watched him a lot and the last year his WR's were trash. There were games where he had to run because guys were dropping TD's left and right.

That being said, dude was also averaging like 7 yards a pop. Hard not to call running plays when you have that type of average.

[Steel Maniac]

I think this is the best assesment yet. I think Rudolph was 1st round abilty but dropped because this class had so many QBs drafted early so teams with real QB needs got their guy.
It was a rare opportunity to get a guy who has legit potential FAR later that he would otherwise be drafted.

What is funny is that I am not convinced in all the guys who were drafted ahead of him. I dont think the draft class was really all that deep, we just have a few "fools gold" type QBs who were way overdrafted based on "talent" versus "skill".

While it is alway hard to know for sure, I dont see a great difference in the odds of our guy versus the others drafted ahead of him.

Rudolph is a perfect fit for the kind of player who goes later than he should but has a HOF career (not "elite" arm strength, but strong enough and accurate)..
He fits the mold of the Joe Montana and Tom Brady types get missed by every team in the league.

There you have it. His resume is as good or better then the guys who went ahead of him.

[Shawn]

Watch Lamar vs FSU on YouTube. WR’s dropped some beautiful passes in the end zone. Right in the bread basket. When people call Lamar Jackson a run first, inaccurate QB I realize they have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, he is a gifted athlete...and the ability to make plays with his legs is truly special. But, when he has time he wants to progress through his reads, he wants to pass. He throws the nicest ball of all the QBs in this draft. His WR core was junk...his OL even worse than the WR core.

Unfortunately, many casual draft "analysts" truly do all their analysis through youtube highlights and reading a few scouting reports. And that isn't just members on this board. Many in the media who do draft write ups are not watching film....or certainly not enough of it. Maybe they are up against deadlines...maybe they are just sloppy in their approach. What I'll say is QBs are always a crap shoot. But, if I had to put my money on any QB in this draft becoming special it would be Jackson. He's got a bigger arm and faster wheels than Watson. Why wouldn't he be successful?

[Shawn]

Put me in the category that thinks Rudolph was a really good selection for the Steelers. It is interesting that a lot of the players the Steelers drafted, played on teams on Pitt's schedule. But I remember watching Rudolph light Pitt up last year and thinking the Steelers should consider this guy in the draft. He is reminiscent of Roethlisberger. He is tall 6' 5", and throws a very accurate deep ball. He had a great command of OSU offense. I thought he made great decisions and was clearly the best QB Pitt faced last year.

I think he is much better than your average 3rd round QB and the Steelers were fortunate to get him there. The reason he dropped to the third may have something to do with the fact that 5 QBs went in the first round. And the demand for QBs went down. Maybe they were perceived as being more dynamic in terms of arm strength or athleticism, but I think Rudolph definitely has enough arm strength is more mature and a better decision maker than most of the others.

There was a group of fans last year that argued vehemently against the Ju-Ju selection, and they were proven flatly wrong. It is going to take longer on Rudolph because he isn't going play a lot early in his career, but the Steelers can certainly end their search and I am very comfortable with this pick.

When you look at some of the QBs taken in the 1st round in the recent years; such a Mitchell Trubisky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Jack Lockler, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder, I would be willing to bet that Rudolph will turn out better than anyone of this list, but it will take a while to find out.

I really haven't seen any members upset about the Rudolph pick...just skeptics that he is franchise material. I think he was a terrific third round value and I personally had a second round grade on him. I'll always be suspicious of Big 12 system QBs, but there are things to like about Rudolph specifically the value in the third. He does throw a nice deep ball with loft and allows his WRs to get underneath it. I like that he has a home run mentality. With all that said, my main concern is can he throw a deep out. If not, teams will make his field VERY small and he doesn't have enough whip to squeeze tight windows. Some of that might be able to be taught. His footwork at times is suspect and he doesn't drive balls consistently. I mean the dude is big, he should have an arm that can be corrected. I'm curious to see what a good QB coach can do with him.

[Shawn]

Unless you run an option, there pretty much is no such thing as a literal "run first" QB.
In this context, I believe he means a guy who constantly looks at running possibilities on passing downs.

During his career Jackson has more rush attempts than he has completions. True his team limitations force him a bit but DANG that is a whole lot of run attempts by a QB,. Many of them designed running plays because he was the best running back on the team. I mean if he could have caught his own balls too, UL would have been National Champions lol.

[Steel Maniac]

Unless you run an option, there pretty much is no such thing as a literal "run first" QB.
In this context, I believe he means a guy who constantly looks at running possibilities on passing downs.

During his career Jackson has more rush attempts than he has completions. True his team limitations force him a bit but DANG that is a whole lot of run attempts by a QB,.

Boom...............

[RuthlessBurgher]

I'm curious to see what a good QB coach can do with him.

I'm a bit concerned that when Randy Fichtner was promoted to O.C., the team did not hire another QB coach to take his place. Fichtner is still our de facto QB coach as well. With all of those new play-calling responsibilities to worry about for the first time since he was back at Memphis, I'm a bit worried that he won't be able to devote as much time as he normally would have to try to develop young QB's like Mason Rudolph and Josh Dobbs.

[Sugar]

I really haven't seen any members upset about the Rudolph pick...

For the record, I'm in that category. I don't like that they picked ANY QB last year or this year.

[feltdizz]

For the record, I'm in that category. I don't like that they picked ANY QB last year or this year.

I didn't mind the Dobbs pick in the 4th but now that we drafted Rudolph.... wtf? I think we only needed to draft 1 QB to hold a clipboard.

We must really think Rudolph has a chance to be that guy. Then again, if you think he is the guy how do you wait til the 3rd?

[Shawn]

I didn't mind the Dobbs pick in the 4th but now that we drafted Rudolph.... wtf? I think we only needed to draft 1 QB to hold a clipboard.

We must really think Rudolph has a chance to be that guy. Then again, if you think he is the guy how do you wait til the 3rd? I think it's quite possible Jones or Dobbs is gone.

[Shawn]

For the record, I'm in that category. I don't like that they picked ANY QB last year or this year. I'm of the opposite mentality. I'm glad we drafted both Dobbs and Rudolph. We don't know how long Ben has but it's between 1-3 years. And bringing in new talent at QB...each and every year if need be seems prudent to find an heir.

[Sugar]

I didn't mind the Dobbs pick in the 4th but now that we drafted Rudolph.... wtf? I think we only needed to draft 1 QB to hold a clipboard.

While I didn't like the Dobbs pick last year, the fact that we did makes me like the Rudolph pick this year even less (if that makes any sense). It just seems to me that there would have been some Defensive help that would have been at least a depth upgrade in the 3rd or 4th rounds when we already have a Pro Bowl quality starter and a serviceable backup.

I know that horse has been beaten to death, but it's my opinion on the matter.

[Donnieboy]

I think this is the best assesment yet. I think Rudolph was 1st round abilty but dropped because this class had so many QBs drafted early so teams with real QB needs got their guy.
It was a rare opportunity to get a guy who has legit potential FAR later that he would otherwise be drafted.

What is funny is that I am not convinced in all the guys who were drafted ahead of him. I dont think the draft class was really all that deep, we just have a few "fools gold" type QBs who were way overdrafted based on "talent" versus "skill".

While it is alway hard to know for sure, I dont see a great difference in the odds of our guy versus the others drafted ahead of him.

Rudolph is a perfect fit for the kind of player who goes later than he should but has a HOF career (not "elite" arm strength, but strong enough and accurate)..
He fits the mold of the Joe Montana and Tom Brady types get missed by every team in the league.

Cha-ching!! Great post. I think you have hit the nail on the head here.

[Shawn]

While I didn't like the Dobbs pick last year, the fact that we did makes me like the Rudolph pick this year even less (if that makes any sense). It just seems to me that there would have been some Defensive help that would have been at least a depth upgrade in the 3rd or 4th rounds when we already have a Pro Bowl quality starter and a serviceable backup.

I know that horse has been beaten to death, but it's my opinion on the matter. While I understand the win now mentality...the Steelers have a different mentality. They want to be competitive year in and year out. That won't happen without at bare minimum average QB play. They know this...so expect more QBs to be drafted if neither of these two show promise.

[Donnieboy]

Maybe this will settle things a bit on which QB will thrive in the NFL. Have to say his metrics are pretty interesting and it might surprise you to find out which QBs end up short and which will shine. btw, this author thinks this QB class isn't all that special to begin with:


https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/5/17046116/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-josh-allen-sam-darnold-projections-hype

btw Shawn, you might be disappointed in who Jackson is projected to be closest to in the pros.

Good read NorthCoast. I think we would all be very pleased with a Jared Goff type in Mason Rudolph. A Brandon Weedon type? No frickin way. Lamar Jackson couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

[Donnieboy]

Lamar Jackson will be a star in a triple option offense........ wait a minute, no teams in the NFL run that offense. With that in mind, he'll be the next RG3 or Vince Young. Athletic but incapable of running a pro style offense, injured often and out of the NFL by the end of his first contract!

Cha-ching!! Love it!! Yeah athletic QB's who can run yet are not accurate passers and have trouble in a pocket never make it in the NFL. Good stuff Prowler.

[Donnieboy]

When people call Lamar Jackson a run first, inaccurate QB I realize they have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, he is a gifted athlete...and the ability to make plays with his legs is truly special. But, when he has time he wants to progress through his reads, he wants to pass. He throws the nicest ball of all the QBs in this draft. His WR core was junk...his OL even worse than the WR core.

Unfortunately, many casual draft "analysts" truly do all their analysis through youtube highlights and reading a few scouting reports. And that isn't just members on this board. Many in the media who do draft write ups are not watching film....or certainly not enough of it. Maybe they are up against deadlines...maybe they are just sloppy in their approach. What I'll say is QBs are always a crap shoot. But, if I had to put my money on any QB in this draft becoming special it would be Jackson. He's got a bigger arm and faster wheels than Watson. Why wouldn't he be successful?

Don't know what we are talking about? 57 pct career passer in college. In today's standards for the NFL, that pretty much speaks for being an inaccurate passer. Oh and again...69 TD's to 27 INT's. Ouch!

[feltdizz]

Don't know what we are talking about? 57 pct career passer in college. In today's standards for the NFL, that pretty much speaks for being an inaccurate passer. Oh and again...69 TD's to 27 INT's. Ouch!

Ouch? That's in line with every other QB besides Mayfield and Rudolph and those TD's are inflated like crazy because they both played in the Big 12. They still threw a good amount of INT's but damn.. just about every Big 12 game ends with a score of 52 to 39. They literally play no defense in the Big 12 so it's hard to gauge these QB's.

Josh Rosen 59 to 26
Sam Darnold 57 to 22
Josh Allen 44 to 21

Mason Rudolph 92 to 26
Baker Mayfield 131 to 30

and just for fun..

Patrick Mahomes 93 to 29

but I guess the real question is how many Big 12 QB's have turned into real franchise QB's who win playoff games? Is there one in the last 30 years?

[Shawn]

Ouch? That's in line with every other QB besides Mayfield and Rudolph and those TD's are inflated like crazy because they both played in the Big 12. They still threw a good amount of INT's but damn.. just about every Big 12 game ends with a score of 52 to 39. They literally play no defense in the Big 12 so it's hard to gauge these QB's.

Josh Rosen 59 to 26
Sam Darnold 57 to 22
Josh Allen 44 to 21

Mason Rudolph 92 to 26
Baker Mayfield 131 to 30

and just for fun..

Patrick Mahomes 93 to 29

but I guess the real question is how many Big 12 QB's have turned into real franchise QB's who win playoff games? Is there one in the last 30 years?

Boom!!! :D

[feltdizz]

Boom!!! :D

Besides Troy Aikmen transferring to UCLA from Oklahoma I don't see any QB's who have had real success in the NFL from this league.

No disrespect, and I know it only takes one to change history but man... most Big 12 QB's are mentally weak as hell when you really need them to step up.

Weeden - nope
Manzeil - drugged out
Josh Freeman - injured his throwing hand shooting a gun
Dalton - weak minded and safe in playoffs
Sam Bradford - always hurt. ALWAYS! Why do teams keep giving him money I will never know?
RG3 - mentally off and a freaking weirdo
Colt McCoy - SOFT.. ruined the BCS game and was too small
Vince Young - mentally soft.. mama's boy. He cried in the car

All these dudes looked like they could be the next great thing and they all fell short when times got hard. Vince Young and Dalton are probably the best out of that bunch when it comes to wins and losses.

I hope Rudolph can break the cycle but it sure seems like that conference is so wide open with pass defense that it fools folks into thinking that have what it takes. I wonder if that's why Mason dropped?

Mahomes will get to show if he can break the cycle this year.

[Shawn]

Besides Troy Aikmen transferring to UCLA from Oklahoma I don't see any QB's who have had real success in the NFL from this league.

No disrespect, and I know it only takes one to change history but man... most Big 12 QB's are mentally weak as hell when you really need them to step up.

Weeden - nope
Manzeil - drugged out
Josh Freeman - injured his throwing hand shooting a gun
Dalton - weak minded and safe in playoffs
Sam Bradford - always hurt. ALWAYS! Why do teams keep giving him money I will never know?
RG3 - mentally off and a freaking weirdo
Colt McCoy - SOFT.. ruined the BCS game and was too small
Vince Young - mentally soft.. mama's boy. He cried in the car

All these dudes looked like they could be the next great thing and they all fell short when times got hard. Vince Young and Dalton are probably the best out of that bunch when it comes to wins and losses.

I hope Rudolph can break the cycle but it sure seems like that conference is so wide open with pass defense that it fools folks into thinking that have what it takes. I wonder if that's why Mason dropped?

Mahomes will get to show if he can break the cycle this year.

Cha-ching!!! Love it. These observations match my 15 minute observations on youtube.

[Captain Lemming]

Many of them designed running plays because he was the best running back on the team. I mean if he could have caught his own balls too, UL would have been National Champions lol.

Marriotta did it....why can't he? :)

[Steel Maniac]

Cha-ching!! Love it!! Yeah athletic QB's who can run yet are not accurate passers and have trouble in a pocket never make it in the NFL. Good stuff Prowler.

Thank you prowler! Clearly you and Donnie are students of football and know what history says about qb’s like Jackson.

[Steel Maniac]

Marriotta did it....why can't he? :)

Hahahahaha..

[Steel Maniac]

Patriots thought so much of Mayfield that they considered trading up to # 2 for him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/01/agent-says-patriots-considered-trading-up-to-no-2-for-baker-mayfield/

[Donnieboy]

Patriots thought so much of Mayfield that they considered trading up to # 2 for him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/01/agent-says-patriots-considered-trading-up-to-no-2-for-baker-mayfield/

I saw this. I think it's B.S. It appears as if there is a tiff between Brady and Belichick. Brady came out earlier today with how he wished Malcolm Butler had played in the Super Bowl.....knowing darn good and well it was a Belichick decision. Then later today the story is leaked that the Pats considered trading up for a QB? Add all this with Brady's late announcement about whether or not he would return for 2018...something is brewing.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930767/article/brady-on-butler-benching-wish-he-would-have-played

[Slapstick]

OTOH, how many QBs from Louisville have been wildly successful in the NFL? :lol::lol::lol:

[Donnieboy]

OTOH, how many QBs from Louisville have been wildly successful in the NFL? :lol::lol::lol: Exactly!! :p

[NorthCoast]

Maybe this will settle things a bit on which QB will thrive in the NFL. Have to say his metrics are pretty interesting and it might surprise you to find out which QBs end up short and which will shine. btw, this author thinks this QB class isn't all that special to begin with:


https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/5/17046116/2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-josh-allen-sam-darnold-projections-hype

btw Shawn, you might be disappointed in who Jackson is projected to be closest to in the pros.

Bump.

The logic is there. No QB will be as successful in the NFL as he was in college. The defenses are too good, the talent disparity too narrow. What they are in college is their ceiling in the NFL in terms of success rate. Look at the Josh Allen comparison. The author even accounted for the fact that his WRs and system sucked last season so went back to 2016 with only a marginal improvement:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pNRW06qVX_60Mh-g_tWO-8oNo2k=/0x0:1922x1630/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1922x1630):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10591805/BillC_QBStat_Charts_Spread__1_.png

[Donnieboy]

It's funny how some here were bashing USC QB's like they are now with Big 12 QB's. Suggesting that none could ever be good because they all sucked previously in the NFL. But now?....silence. I guess there is an exception like with Sam Darnold. And Mason Rudolph will also be the exception.

[NorthCoast]

Actually if both Baker Mayfield and Rudolph pan out it's gonna be a ton of fun in the AFCN in the future. While it's nice to play doormats, it doesn't help to groom the Steelers for the stiff competition in the playoffs.

[RuthlessBurgher]

It's funny how some here were bashing USC QB's like they are now with Big 12 QB's. Suggesting that none could ever be good because they all sucked previously in the NFL. But now?....silence. I guess there is an exception like with Sam Darnold. And Mason Rudolph will also be the exception.

Carson Palmer played at USC and had a better NFL career than any Big 12 QB in the last few decades. And for the record, I'm not a Darnold fan either (and not just because he looks like the douchebag villian in every 80's movie). For my money, the only QB prospect in the last several drafts that was truly worth a top pick was Carson Wentz.

[feltdizz]

It's funny how some here were bashing USC QB's like they are now with Big 12 QB's. Suggesting that none could ever be good because they all sucked previously in the NFL. But now?....silence. I guess there is an exception like with Sam Darnold. And Mason Rudolph will also be the exception.

Silence? Darnold went to the Jets... no one cares about him AND no one on here said he will be anything special.

[Shawn]

Silence? Darnold went to the Jets... no one cares about him AND no one on here said he will be anything special.. It’s kind of like when a kid builds a sand castle so he can tear it down. So too do some members like to build phantom arguments to debate.

[feltdizz]

Carson Palmer played at USC and had a better NFL career than any Big 12 QB in the last few decades. And for the record, I'm not a Darnold fan either (and not just because he looks like the douchebag villian in every 80's movie). For my money, the only QB prospect in the last several drafts that was truly worth a top pick was Carson Wentz.

yo, that is an awesome description of Sam Darnold. He looks like a drug dealer on Miami Vice or a highway killer on Knight Rider.

[Steel Maniac]

Bump.

The logic is there. No QB will be as successful in the NFL as he was in college. The defenses are too good, the talent disparity too narrow. What they are in college is their ceiling in the NFL in terms of success rate. Look at the Josh Allen comparison. The author even accounted for the fact that his WRs and system sucked last season so went back to 2016 with only a marginal improvement:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pNRW06qVX_60Mh-g_tWO-8oNo2k=/0x0:1922x1630/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1922x1630):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10591805/BillC_QBStat_Charts_Spread__1_.png

Qb is a position that is played 80 percent above the neck. No one knows for 100 percent sure who’s going to pan out. But I like my chances better with a qb that understands schemes and defenses. Unlike a qb that was interviewed before the draft and was dumb as a bag of rocks in understanding those things. :rolleyes:

[Captain Lemming]

yo, that is an awesome description of Sam Darnold. He looks like a drug dealer on Miami Vice or a highway killer on Knight Rider.

LOL.......Hilarious.
Maniac THAT is why you shouldn't block people, you miss out on good stuff :)

[feltdizz]

Folks need to slow down on the dumb comments from anonymous "sources" saying a QB can't read defenses. Same thing was said about Cam Newton. More than likely by a team who didn't have a high pick and wanted Cam to drop to them.

I just heard about a scout saying he passed on Rosen because he saw the UCLA volleyball team at the airport and asked a coach if he knew anything about Rosen. The volleyball coach says "I got nothing to offer you but his girlfriend is on the team, she can tell you about Rosen"

..and that was enough for the scout to scratch Rosen off the list.

WTF?

these reports about players BEFORE the draft from anonymous sources can't be trusted AT ALL.

[Steel Maniac]

LOL.......Hilarious.
Maniac THAT is why you shouldn't block people, you miss out on good stuff :)

That was pretty funny; I have to admit! :smile:

[Steel Maniac]

LOL.......Hilarious.
Maniac THAT is why you shouldn't block people, you miss out on good stuff :)

I'll think about reconsidering it the next couple of days.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Mason Rudolph is the Steelers' great Jimmy G experiment

8:09 AM ET

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

PITTSBURGH -- The Pittsburgh Steelers didn't have to talk themselves into drafting Mason Rudolph. The voices in the halls of Oklahoma State's campus told them to do it.

"They come up to you and, man for man or janitor to janitor, and they're grabbing you and saying 'Man, this is the salt of the earth. This is one of these type of dudes.' That's exciting," offensive coordinator Randy Fichtner said.

So Pittsburgh made the "dude" one of the its most important third-round picks in recent history.

Tom Brady was 36 years old when the New England Patriots selected Jimmy Garoppolo in the second round of the 2014 draft. Four years later, Ben Roethlisberger is 36 and will have a player the Steelers considered a first-round talent inside his quarterback room.

Brady played long enough to force Garoppolo to San Francisco in a trade that affected the Patriots' future plans. The Steelers would love to be faced with such a problem. They'd gladly sign up for Roethlisberger playing another four years, and Roethlisberger himself told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that he’s eyeing another three to five seasons, barring injury.

To be sure, Rudolph one day flashing a Hollywood smile at a media conference announcing a $137.5 million contract, like Garoppolo, is hardly a guarantee. He's a third-round pick that at least one NFL draft evaluation compares to Christian Ponder.

But the presence of Rudolph has deepened the intrigue of a Pittsburgh quarterback lineage that features one Hall of Famer (Terry Bradshaw) and another destined for a bust in Canton, Ohio.

This feels weightier than last year's fourth-round selection of Josh Dobbs, who is talented but considered raw. The Steelers have begun drawing the walls and doors of a succession blueprint. They believe Rudolph's ability to anticipate throws is next-level good.

Rudolph -- described as a devout Christian and obsessive about football prep -- will be ready. In fact, he prayed for this.

"I've gotta believe he would embrace the job and hang onto it as long as those two did if the opportunity presented itself in the future," said Brett Rudolph, Mason's father.

No hobbies, just football

Exactly what to expect from Rudolph is tough to decipher because of the draft's quarterback dynamic. Many around the league considered Rudolph the sixth-best quarterback behind Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson. The Steelers disagreed, with general manager Kevin Colbert revealing Rudolph ranked as high on his board as the others.

Rudolph can point to 13,618 reasons why he disagrees, one for each record-breaking yard at Oklahoma State, which ran a vertical passing offense suited to Rudolph's skill set.

"It'll stick with me every minute of every hour from here going forward until the day I die," Rudolph said about being labeled as a second-tier quarterback in the draft process.

Rudolph is the son of an asset manager for a real estate investment firm, a private-school-educated child until the sixth grade. He attended a Christian private school before joining Northwestern High School and football powerhouse Rock Hill (South Carolina) to see how he stacked up, converting from receiver to quarterback after coaches saw the natural arm talent and mental makeup for the position.

Rudolph's brother, Logan, plays outside linebacker at Clemson. His father played linebacker at North Carolina. He learned football toughness from his family, which believes three different school environments helped Rudolph become well-rounded.

When Rudolph isn't commanding a huddle, he's commanding living rooms by organizing family activities. His strong personality comes out in both settings, his father says.

No hobbies, just football.

"Doesn't ever seem to be satisfied," Brett said. "I've told him that you'll have plenty of years later on to do things you couldn't do as an NFL player, but have no regrets. He's been pretty obsessive about being as good as he can be."

Rudolph had hoped to go higher than 76th overall but also prioritized fit. Teams that showed the most interest had aging quarterbacks: Patriots, Saints, Chargers among them.

None of those drafted a quarterback, but five teams in the first round did, which was hard for Rudolph. Privately, he felt his pro-style quarterbacking and ability to keep his eyes downfield and deliver would erase concerns.

Now he knows only one thing to do.

"Prepare like I'm the starter whether that's the case or not," Rudolph said.

Working to combat 'system' stigma

Between Cowboys practices and film sessions, Rudolph would corral a few young assistant coaches and run through every call sheet, review signals, where plays came from -- "football gymnastics," as offensive coordinator Mike Yurcich calls it.

One 10-play script might take 30 minutes when reviewing each variation or coverage possibility.

If Rudolph didn't have enough information, he'd press Yurcich for more.

"He's the kind of guy you want to go to work with and go to a heated battle with because you know he's done everything in his capability to handle the moment he's stepping into," Yurcich said.

Work ethic is great, but Rudolph might log overtime to conquer the "system" stigma that exists with offenses in the Big 12, where passing windows are bigger than NFL cornerbacks allow.

That stigma irks Yurcich, who got a four-year close-up at a quarterback with the best "sniper's mentality" he has ever seen -- the ability to wait for plays to develop, eyes downfield, while a pass rusher closes in. Rudolph slides in the pocket at a "masterful" level, Yurcich said, has flawless weight transfer on deep balls and punishes intermediate zones. He concedes Rudolph's ability to throw on the run is "average," but adds Rudolph can improve in that area because he's not a bad athlete (4.9 40 time at the combine).

The way he sees it, a Big 12 offense should be the least of the NFL's concern when top-10 picks the past two years (Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes) quarterbacked in the Big 12 and Andy Reid, a West Coast offense disciple, giddily schemes up Big 12-style concepts each Sunday.

"I don't see under-center, seven-step drops in the NFL. I see shotgun, I see spread sets, pick routes, Big 12 offense in the Super Bowl," Yurcich said.

Rudolph points out he had vast control of OSU's offense, pre- and post-snap, which will help him learn at the NFL level. He has already met with Fichtner over the weekend to talk football, Brett said.

The Steelers should feel like they got a first-round pick, Yurcich said, because that's where he belonged.

"It boggles my mind," Yurcich said about Rudolph not being grouped with the quarterbacks ahead of him. "I think it's a slap in the face."

Not Big Ben's job to teach me

The Steelers aren't about to cast Roethlisberger aside. He was one of the league's hottest quarterbacks at season's end, averaging 346 yards per game over his last seven games in 2017.

Center Maurkice Pouncey told ESPN that Roethlisberger wants to play another three years, which would necessitate an update on a contract expiring in 2020.

Drafting a quarterback in the third round allows the Steelers to invest in the future without mortgaging the present. The pick isn't high enough to put the starter on some sort of notice unnecessarily, and the backup quarterback dynamic just got more interesting. Landry Jones is in the final year of his contract, and Dobbs has barely played. He'll want a chance.

"I know you can’t keep four, but any coach is going to say 'give me as much talent as you possibly can,'" said Fichtner, a former quarterbacks coach promoted in January after the team did not renew Todd Haley's contract. "I am going to be excited as hell about this. I keep my fingers crossed that [Roethlisberger] will play as long as, Lord willing, he’s healthy and that he wants to play. That’d be awesome and that’d be great for us. … If it takes three guys in competition to replace him some day, then so be it, and what a better position to be in right now and to keep developing quarterbacks."

That leaves Rudolph seeking a sweet spot between confidence and patience. Rudolph calls himself "competitive to the bone" and would love to play but also sees the value in development.

His reps will be limited to organized team activities, training camp, possibly a preseason start and no guarantees after that.

All this would be new for a player who has long admired Roethlisberger's game but plans to create his own NFL identity.

"It’s not Ben [Roethlisberger's] job to teach me anything. It’s my job to learn and that is the way I am going to look at it," Rudolph said. "Obviously, you’re sitting behind an unbelievable player and a good dude, so we’ll just kind of take it day by day and try to learn what I can each and every day."

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/27823/mason-rudolph-is-the-steelers-great-jimmy-g-experiment

[feltdizz]

great read, thanks

[Steel Maniac]

Mason Rudolph is the Steelers' great Jimmy G experiment

8:09 AM ET

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

PITTSBURGH -- The Pittsburgh Steelers didn't have to talk themselves into drafting Mason Rudolph. The voices in the halls of Oklahoma State's campus told them to do it.

"They come up to you and, man for man or janitor to janitor, and they're grabbing you and saying 'Man, this is the salt of the earth. This is one of these type of dudes.' That's exciting," offensive coordinator Randy Fichtner said.

So Pittsburgh made the "dude" one of the its most important third-round picks in recent history.

Tom Brady was 36 years old when the New England Patriots selected Jimmy Garoppolo in the second round of the 2014 draft. Four years later, Ben Roethlisberger is 36 and will have a player the Steelers considered a first-round talent inside his quarterback room.

Brady played long enough to force Garoppolo to San Francisco in a trade that affected the Patriots' future plans. The Steelers would love to be faced with such a problem. They'd gladly sign up for Roethlisberger playing another four years, and Roethlisberger himself told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that he’s eyeing another three to five seasons, barring injury.

To be sure, Rudolph one day flashing a Hollywood smile at a media conference announcing a $137.5 million contract, like Garoppolo, is hardly a guarantee. He's a third-round pick that at least one NFL draft evaluation compares to Christian Ponder.

But the presence of Rudolph has deepened the intrigue of a Pittsburgh quarterback lineage that features one Hall of Famer (Terry Bradshaw) and another destined for a bust in Canton, Ohio.

This feels weightier than last year's fourth-round selection of Josh Dobbs, who is talented but considered raw. The Steelers have begun drawing the walls and doors of a succession blueprint. They believe Rudolph's ability to anticipate throws is next-level good.

Rudolph -- described as a devout Christian and obsessive about football prep -- will be ready. In fact, he prayed for this.

"I've gotta believe he would embrace the job and hang onto it as long as those two did if the opportunity presented itself in the future," said Brett Rudolph, Mason's father.

No hobbies, just football

Exactly what to expect from Rudolph is tough to decipher because of the draft's quarterback dynamic. Many around the league considered Rudolph the sixth-best quarterback behind Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson. The Steelers disagreed, with general manager Kevin Colbert revealing Rudolph ranked as high on his board as the others.

Rudolph can point to 13,618 reasons why he disagrees, one for each record-breaking yard at Oklahoma State, which ran a vertical passing offense suited to Rudolph's skill set.

"It'll stick with me every minute of every hour from here going forward until the day I die," Rudolph said about being labeled as a second-tier quarterback in the draft process.

Rudolph is the son of an asset manager for a real estate investment firm, a private-school-educated child until the sixth grade. He attended a Christian private school before joining Northwestern High School and football powerhouse Rock Hill (South Carolina) to see how he stacked up, converting from receiver to quarterback after coaches saw the natural arm talent and mental makeup for the position.

Rudolph's brother, Logan, plays outside linebacker at Clemson. His father played linebacker at North Carolina. He learned football toughness from his family, which believes three different school environments helped Rudolph become well-rounded.

When Rudolph isn't commanding a huddle, he's commanding living rooms by organizing family activities. His strong personality comes out in both settings, his father says.

No hobbies, just football.

"Doesn't ever seem to be satisfied," Brett said. "I've told him that you'll have plenty of years later on to do things you couldn't do as an NFL player, but have no regrets. He's been pretty obsessive about being as good as he can be."

Rudolph had hoped to go higher than 76th overall but also prioritized fit. Teams that showed the most interest had aging quarterbacks: Patriots, Saints, Chargers among them.

None of those drafted a quarterback, but five teams in the first round did, which was hard for Rudolph. Privately, he felt his pro-style quarterbacking and ability to keep his eyes downfield and deliver would erase concerns.

Now he knows only one thing to do.

"Prepare like I'm the starter whether that's the case or not," Rudolph said.

Working to combat 'system' stigma

Between Cowboys practices and film sessions, Rudolph would corral a few young assistant coaches and run through every call sheet, review signals, where plays came from -- "football gymnastics," as offensive coordinator Mike Yurcich calls it.

One 10-play script might take 30 minutes when reviewing each variation or coverage possibility.

If Rudolph didn't have enough information, he'd press Yurcich for more.

"He's the kind of guy you want to go to work with and go to a heated battle with because you know he's done everything in his capability to handle the moment he's stepping into," Yurcich said.

Work ethic is great, but Rudolph might log overtime to conquer the "system" stigma that exists with offenses in the Big 12, where passing windows are bigger than NFL cornerbacks allow.

That stigma irks Yurcich, who got a four-year close-up at a quarterback with the best "sniper's mentality" he has ever seen -- the ability to wait for plays to develop, eyes downfield, while a pass rusher closes in. Rudolph slides in the pocket at a "masterful" level, Yurcich said, has flawless weight transfer on deep balls and punishes intermediate zones. He concedes Rudolph's ability to throw on the run is "average," but adds Rudolph can improve in that area because he's not a bad athlete (4.9 40 time at the combine).

The way he sees it, a Big 12 offense should be the least of the NFL's concern when top-10 picks the past two years (Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes) quarterbacked in the Big 12 and Andy Reid, a West Coast offense disciple, giddily schemes up Big 12-style concepts each Sunday.

"I don't see under-center, seven-step drops in the NFL. I see shotgun, I see spread sets, pick routes, Big 12 offense in the Super Bowl," Yurcich said.

Rudolph points out he had vast control of OSU's offense, pre- and post-snap, which will help him learn at the NFL level. He has already met with Fichtner over the weekend to talk football, Brett said.

The Steelers should feel like they got a first-round pick, Yurcich said, because that's where he belonged.

"It boggles my mind," Yurcich said about Rudolph not being grouped with the quarterbacks ahead of him. "I think it's a slap in the face."

Not Big Ben's job to teach me

The Steelers aren't about to cast Roethlisberger aside. He was one of the league's hottest quarterbacks at season's end, averaging 346 yards per game over his last seven games in 2017.

Center Maurkice Pouncey told ESPN that Roethlisberger wants to play another three years, which would necessitate an update on a contract expiring in 2020.

Drafting a quarterback in the third round allows the Steelers to invest in the future without mortgaging the present. The pick isn't high enough to put the starter on some sort of notice unnecessarily, and the backup quarterback dynamic just got more interesting. Landry Jones is in the final year of his contract, and Dobbs has barely played. He'll want a chance.

"I know you can’t keep four, but any coach is going to say 'give me as much talent as you possibly can,'" said Fichtner, a former quarterbacks coach promoted in January after the team did not renew Todd Haley's contract. "I am going to be excited as hell about this. I keep my fingers crossed that [Roethlisberger] will play as long as, Lord willing, he’s healthy and that he wants to play. That’d be awesome and that’d be great for us. … If it takes three guys in competition to replace him some day, then so be it, and what a better position to be in right now and to keep developing quarterbacks."

That leaves Rudolph seeking a sweet spot between confidence and patience. Rudolph calls himself "competitive to the bone" and would love to play but also sees the value in development.

His reps will be limited to organized team activities, training camp, possibly a preseason start and no guarantees after that.

All this would be new for a player who has long admired Roethlisberger's game but plans to create his own NFL identity.

"It’s not Ben [Roethlisberger's] job to teach me anything. It’s my job to learn and that is the way I am going to look at it," Rudolph said. "Obviously, you’re sitting behind an unbelievable player and a good dude, so we’ll just kind of take it day by day and try to learn what I can each and every day."

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/27823/mason-rudolph-is-the-steelers-great-jimmy-g-experiment

Great story. He's into football. Period.

[Shawn]

Excited to see what he can do.

[Donnieboy]

Excited to see what he can do.

I am sure the FO and coaching staff is as well.....

Steelers GM Kevin Colbert said Rudolph was considered by Pittsburgh in "the group of the top quarterbacks"

....they believe they have an elite/franchise QB in Rudolph.

[Sugar]

Steelers GM Kevin Colbert said Rudolph was considered by Pittsburgh in "the group of the top quarterbacks"

....they believe they have an elite/franchise QB in Rudolph.

Who they got as a value pick after choosing two other players.

[Slapstick]

Who they got as a value pick after choosing two other players.

Which is a fine way to draft a franchise QB...stealing him from Cincy doesn't hurt either...

[Donnieboy]

Who they got as a value pick after choosing two other players.

Yeah cause that's the first thing 49ers think of when they think of Joe Montana. lol!

[papillon]

He is already light years ahead of many quarterbacks that come into the league with this statement: "It's not Ben's job to teach me anything. It's my job to learn and that's the way I'm going to look at it." He understands the position that he is in and the opportunity that he has, wise beyond his years. How great would it be to have Ben's replacement in the 3rd round and only giving up a 7th round pick to get him?

Pappy

[Sugar]

Yeah cause that's the first thing 49ers think of when they think of Joe Montana. lol!

If Rudolph is anywhere near as good as Montana as a pro, that will be fantastic. May the odds be ever in his favor.

[Donnieboy]

If Rudolph is anywhere near as good as Montana as a pro, that will be fantastic. May the odds be ever in his favor.

Wouldn't that be great. We all could hope. Just for the record, Montana was the 82nd overall pick. By how some think that where a player is drafted its the ultimate indication of a players ability, I'd say Rudolph is already better. :p

[flippy]

Looking at the history of 3rd round picks, there's 22 guys that became eventual HOFers drafted in round 3. That's 7% of the HOF.

Of those 22, 3 are QBs - Montana, Fouts, and Tarkenton. Although Tarkenton was pick 29 so that's not really a modern day 3rd round pick.

Hope Rudolf is in that class of QBs, but it's doubtful if we're being completely honest. And a guy at pick 76 has never made the HOF before.

But in my Flippy spirit, I expect him to one day be enshrined and buck the trend!!!!!!

[NorthCoast]

Looking at the history of 3rd round picks, there's 22 guys that became eventual HOFers drafted in round 3. That's 7% of the HOF.

Of those 22, 3 are QBs - Montana, Fouts, and Tarkenton. Although Tarkenton was pick 29 so that's not really a modern day 3rd round pick.

Hope Rudolf is in that class of QBs, but it's doubtful if we're being completely honest. And a guy at pick 76 has never made the HOF before.

But in my Flippy spirit, I expect him to one day be enshrined and buck the trend!!!!!!Add to that NFL talent evaluaters are notoriously bad at the QB position, it does end up being pretty much a crap shoot on finding the gem.