How would you react.....

[Oviedo]

...if the Steelers traded up to get Mason Rudolph or Baker Mayfield??????

Since they got stop gap solutions in free agency at Safety and ILB, they could make a move like this if they are in love with one of the QBs

Not sure I would like trading up, but I would love to get either Rudolph or Mayfield...especially the latter

[feltdizz]

I wouldn't like it.

Check this stat out for QB's in the 2018 draft who faced top 10 pass defenses over their FULL careers in

Lamar Jackson 7
Baker Mayfield 4
Darnold 3
Mason Rudolph 1
Rosen 1
Josh Allen 0

I was legit shocked Mayfield played against that many top 10 pass defenses but I think it's due to their OOC cause Big 12 pass defenses are garbage.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Trading up for Mayfield would likely require moving up into the top 10, which is crazy.

And Rudolph is a 2nd round prospect, so trading up in the first for that is crazy as well.

[Slapstick]

If I'm Cleveland, I'm drafting Barkley and Chubb with my 2 top 5 picks...that could very well push one of those QB prospects into the top of the second round...

Taylor has thrown only 16 INTs in the last three years...he led Buffalo to a playoff berth after a 17 year drought...I think if you beef up the defense and the running game, he can manage the game...Jarvis Landry would be a good security blanket underneath and Josh Gordon will most likely demand double coverage...Njoku could also develop into a reliable target...

But, the Browns would most likely F that up...

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I'm ok for Trading up...


For Edmunds, Smith, or LVE, Evans...

For Fitz or James....



But that's it!

[Sugar]

If I'm Cleveland, I'm drafting Barkley and Chubb with my 2 top 5 picks...that could very well push one of those QB prospects into the top of the second round...

Taylor has thrown only 16 INTs in the last three years...he led Buffalo to a playoff berth after a 17 year drought...I think if you beef up the defense and the running game, he can manage the game...Jarvis Landry would be a good security blanket underneath and Josh Gordon will most likely demand double coverage...Njoku could also develop into a reliable target...

But, the Browns would most likely F that up...

I agree on all counts. It's not like Cleveland is a QB away from glory. They would be much better to build their team as a whole than to try and find a Messiah QB.

[feltdizz]

If I'm Cleveland, I'm drafting Barkley and Chubb with my 2 top 5 picks...that could very well push one of those QB prospects into the top of the second round...

Taylor has thrown only 16 INTs in the last three years...he led Buffalo to a playoff berth after a 17 year drought...I think if you beef up the defense and the running game, he can manage the game...Jarvis Landry would be a good security blanket underneath and Josh Gordon will most likely demand double coverage...Njoku could also develop into a reliable target...

But, the Browns would most likely F that up...

Tyrod only threw 16 INT's because he refuses to throw the ball half the time when he drops back.

Dude can move the chains with his feet but he is a pretty below average QB. I think the Browns HAVE to draft a QB #1 or their fans will revolt. I think they have started like 25 QB's since Ben was drafted in 2004.

If they passed up the chance to draft a franchise QB this year... smh. just move the team.

[feltdizz]

I agree on all counts. It's not like Cleveland is a QB away from glory. They would be much better to build their team as a whole than to try and find a Messiah QB.

wait.. what?

The Browns are definitely a QB away from glory.

.and glory is basically a 9-7 season and not having to find another QB the next year.

We just watched SF go from garbage to 5 straight wins with Jimmy G. A franchise QB makes a world of difference.

We have seen the Browns draft OL first, DL first, WR, etc... and none of those picks have done jack. They just drafted Garrett first last year and couldn't win one game.

Draft a QB and stop being scared to fail at drafting a QB first because you already been failing doing the opposite.

[Oviedo]

wait.. what? The Browns are definitely a QB away from glory. .and glory is basically a 9-7 season and not having to find another QB the next year. We just watched SF go from garbage to 5 straight wins with Jimmy G. A franchise QB makes a world of difference. We have seen the Browns draft OL first, DL first, WR, etc... and none of those picks have done jack. They just drafted Garrett first last year and couldn't win one game. Draft a QB and stop being scared to fail at drafting a QB first because you already been failing doing the opposite.

1st BOLD PREDICTION OF 2018: The Browns will finish second in the AFC North behind us

[Iron City Inc.]

Trading up for Mayfield would likely require moving up into the top 10, which is crazy.

And Rudolph is a 2nd round prospect, so trading up in the first for that is crazy as well.
It would not shock me at all if someone who missed on a QB early in the 1st traded up into the back end of the first and grabbed Rudolph.

[feltdizz]

1st BOLD PREDICTION OF 2018: The Browns will finish second in the AFC North behind us

nope, but I could see them winning 5 or 6 games which would be impressive IMO.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

It would not shock me at all if someone who missed on a QB early in the 1st traded up into the back end of the first and grabbed Rudolph.

wouldn't shock me either

teams covet that 5th year option especially when it comes to QBs

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't want them to take a QB and definitely don't want them to trade up for one.

But, I also didn't want them to take a WR early last year and JuJu was a great pick.

So if they do something that I don't want them to do, I will trust the process based on the Steelers past performance.

[RuthlessBurgher]

So if they do something that I don't want them to do, I will trust the process based on the Steelers past performance.

If they do something that I don't want them to do, I'll whine and pout and curse them out because I obviously know better from behind my keyboard than the folks who actually meet these players. ;)

[Rara]

Funny how this topic changed to a Stains thread... come on, guys.

[Steel Maniac]

It would not shock me at all if someone who missed on a QB early in the 1st traded up into the back end of the first and grabbed Rudolph.

I think Rudolph does go in the back end of the first round. Rudolph's resume is as good as any other QB in this draft. And as far as him being a system guy, I just saw another system guy named Kenum who led the Vikings to the NFC championship game before his O-line went belly up on him. I do think 6 QB's will go in the first round

[Sugar]

wait.. what?

The Browns are definitely a QB away from glory.

.and glory is basically a 9-7 season and not having to find another QB the next year.

We just watched SF go from garbage to 5 straight wins with Jimmy G. A franchise QB makes a world of difference.

We have seen the Browns draft OL first, DL first, WR, etc... and none of those picks have done jack. They just drafted Garrett first last year and couldn't win one game.

Draft a QB and stop being scared to fail at drafting a QB first because you already been failing doing the opposite.

Actually, we saw last year that it wasn't a matter of who was passing the ball when the guys on the other end couldn't make plays (like making a routine catch). They even showed that in the game against us.

On topic, I'd be a bit upset if they drafted a QB this year because it would signal to me that the FO feels that they are in a rebuilding mode. Ben was on fire at the end of last year and it seems to me that just about any other position outside of ST's could be had in the first to provide better value.

[Northern_Blitz]

If they do something that I don't want them to do, I'll whine and pout and curse them out because I obviously know better from behind my keyboard than the folks who actually meet these players. ;)

I mean...I'll do that first. But if it works, I'll say that I was behind it from day 1 :tt2

[Captain Lemming]

I wouldn't like it.

Check this stat out for QB's in the 2018 draft who faced top 10 pass defenses over their FULL careers in

Lamar Jackson 7
Baker Mayfield 4
Darnold 3
Mason Rudolph 1
Rosen 1
Josh Allen 0

I was legit shocked Mayfield played against that many top 10 pass defenses but I think it's due to their OOC cause Big 12 pass defenses are garbage.

So true!!!
Last time we drafted a QB in the first who rarely faced tough defenses it was certainly a HUUUGE mistake.

Perhaps that same "logic" is why the Browns passed on Ben.



Now THIS Pac 10 Tom Selleck lookalike played the toughest college schedule of any 1 round QB we drafted in my lifetime:

https://usatsteelerswire.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/gettyimages-2687217.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

[feltdizz]

Ben also completed 70% of his passes his last year of college and had 35 TD‘s...

If you haven’t faced top 10 defenses I expect big numbers.

Josh Allen completed 56% of his passes and only had 16 TD’s his last year. I wouldn’t select him.

[Disco1981]

wait.. what?

The Browns are definitely a QB away from glory.

.and glory is basically a 9-7 season and not having to find another QB the next year.

We just watched SF go from garbage to 5 straight wins with Jimmy G. A franchise QB makes a world of difference.

We have seen the Browns draft OL first, DL first, WR, etc... and none of those picks have done jack. They just drafted Garrett first last year and couldn't win one game.

Draft a QB and stop being scared to fail at drafting a QB first because you already been failing doing the opposite.

Wait...What...

Brady Quinn
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Football

[Disco1981]

And Kizer in the 2nd...Last year

[feltdizz]

Wait...What...

Brady Quinn
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Football

Yeah, they usually go with a QB in the back end of the first instead of drafting one with their first pick.

[Captain Lemming]

Ben also completed 70% of his passes his last year of college and had 35 TD‘s...

If you haven’t faced top 10 defenses I expect big numbers.

Josh Allen completed 56% of his passes and only had 16 TD’s his last year. I wouldn’t select him.

I currently live in Boise, so we see a lot of Josh Allen and I have no idea why he is such a hot commodity. He never seemed all that accurate . I know scouts say he has no help but I don't get it.

[Steel Maniac]

I hope like hell the Browns take Allen. He has “bust” written all over him to me. Lamar Jackson too; both are little time bombs that will set back their franchises for the next 3+ years.

[feltdizz]

I currently live in Boise, so we see a lot of Josh Allen and I have no idea why he is such a hot commodity. He never seemed all that accurate . I know scouts say he has no help but I don't get it.

but he has a big arm!!!

It's his measurables. It's no different than Trubisky. That dude did nothing to show he was a top 5 pick in college but since he is tall with a decent arm Chicago reached.

I swear, Kiper must be paid handsomely by agents because he is always hyping up these players that have average written all over them. In 2010 Kiper said he would retire in 8 years if Jimmy Clausen wasn't a successful NFL QB.

[Northern_Blitz]

I currently live in Boise, so we see a lot of Josh Allen and I have no idea why he is such a hot commodity. He never seemed all that accurate . I know scouts say he has no help but I don't get it.

I think that there are 2 main reasons:

1) QBs are super important so they always get over-drafted. The reward is so great that the risk is worth it.
2) Coaches & GMs have egos and believe that they can turn the measurable / raw talent they see at the combine into a better player than they were in college.

[Shawn]

It would not shock me at all if someone who missed on a QB early in the 1st traded up into the back end of the first and grabbed Rudolph. Thats an interesting thought. Maybe a trade partner if Evans doesn't fall to us.

[Shawn]

I hope like hell the Browns take Allen. He has “bust” written all over him to me. Lamar Jackson too; both are little time bombs that will set back their franchises for the next 3+ years. You are right about Allen but wrong about Jackson.

[Steel Maniac]

You are right about Allen but wrong about Jackson.

Wrong about Jackson? Naw. How many running QB's, that have poor accuracy have been successful in the NFL? Exactly.

Great athleticism isn't a requirement to be a great QB.

[Buzz]

I like Jackson.

[feltdizz]

You are right about Allen but wrong about Jackson.
Yup. Can’t wait to see him in preseason.

The running QB criticism is so lazy. Jackson can sling it

[Steel Maniac]

I like Jackson.

A lot of people do. A lot of people liked Michael Vick & Tim Tebum coming out too.

[Shawn]

Wrong about Jackson? Naw. How many running QB's, that have poor accuracy have been successful in the NFL? Exactly.

Great athleticism isn't a requirement to be a great QB. You seem to make your evaluations on other players performances. I actually break out the film, and watch. IMO, Jackson is by far the best athlete in this draft in any position...first. Second, he has all the physical tools to be a great NFL QB. HUGE arm, crazy speed, and the ability to work through progressions (when he had time). He understood a complex offense and did well reading D's. He had zero supporting cast. Crap OL, crap WRs. He is my number 1 rated QB. He will make some team very happy and make many teams look foolish for passing on him.

[Steel Maniac]

You seem to make your evaluations on other players performances. I actually break out the film, and watch. IMO, Jackson is by far the best athlete in this draft in any position...first. Second, he has all the physical tools to be a great NFL QB. HUGE arm, crazy speed, and the ability to work through progressions (when he had time). He understood a complex offense and did well reading D's. He had zero supporting cast. Crap OL, crap WRs. He is my number 1 rated QB. He will make some team very happy and make many teams look foolish for passing on him.

Okay. I've had this same discussion over 30 years. Thru the Randall Cunninghams, Steve Grogans, Michael Vicks, Tim Tebows, Kapernicks, Vince Youngs, etc. etc. Running QB's first tendencies will always be to run. Period.

After the first check, they take off. They never truly become great passers because in the back of their minds, they don't have to be. Their legs will bail them out. The nature of a runner is the same regardless. You'll see. As long as we don't take him, I'll be elated to see another team stunt their growth for another 3-5 years.

Plus..he's inaccurate when he passes. Remove Josh Allen from the draft, and who's the most inaccurate passer? Jackson. And the accuracy issues translates over to the pros.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

You seem to make your evaluations on other players performances. I actually break out the film, and watch. IMO, Jackson is by far the best athlete in this draft in any position...first. Second, he has all the physical tools to be a great NFL QB. HUGE arm, crazy speed, and the ability to work through progressions (when he had time). He understood a complex offense and did well reading D's. He had zero supporting cast. Crap OL, crap WRs. He is my number 1 rated QB. He will make some team very happy and make many teams look foolish for passing on him.
I disagree on reads. in fact, with the RPO, he made the wrong read OFTEN, but, made up for it because of point #1 that you made - he's just simply a fantastic athlete. Moreover, I was annoyed that he did something that no other QBs under Petrino (at least at Louisville) ever had to do. "Check with me" at the LOS before the play. He'd look over to the sideline, get a play, then run the play. The Brohms', Chris Redman's, Dave Ragone's and NONE of the prior QBs he had here had that. They simply walked up, had the ability (and coach's trust) to audible if they saw something.

On the positive side, He has a cannon. Can throw it 50 yards, and it doesn't get more than 10 feet off the ground like the typical, high-arching passes from most QBs, much like Vick did back in the day. That cannon, also means (like Vick) that he has troubles with touch. Quite a few of his short passes were just dropped because he threw the fastball on every pass - even on the screen pass.

I never understood how a guy who ran RPOs so much made the wrong read so often. Or had to "check with me" at the LOS... Or a guy who clearly had throw many footballs couldn't figure how to throw something other than a fastball. and then... he took the wonderlic and confirmed all of DeVille's concerns. The guy just aint that bright.

Good kid. I hope he succeeds. He'll be fun to watch. But, I hope the steelers pass. It'll be just like defending Vick - so, i hope he lands in the NFC somewhere.

[Steel Maniac]

I"ve seen Jackson all last year and some this year. It's not like I've not watched him. Thank God that he will be long gone by our pick. I don't want any possible hick ups to stop us from really helping our team.

[feltdizz]

It’s no different than passing on a QB because he went to a certain school. Outside of USC it’s just a foolish way to evaluate individual talent.

[Shawn]

Okay. I've had this same discussion over 30 years. Thru the Randall Cunninghams, Steve Grogans, Michael Vicks, Tim Tebows, Kapernicks, Vince Youngs, etc. etc. Running QB's first tendencies will always be to run. Period.

After the first check, they take off. They never truly become great passers because in the back of their minds, they don't have to be. Their legs will bail them out. The nature of a runner is the same regardless. You'll see. As long as we don't take him, I'll be elated to see another team stunt their growth for another 3-5 years.

Plus..he's inaccurate when he passes. Remove Josh Allen from the draft, and who's the most inaccurate passer? Jackson. And the accuracy issues translates over to the pros. You are wrong. First, there were many plays built for Jacksons legs. Second, The UoL OL was the worst in college football. He's not a one check down passer. But, he was indeed running for his life. Running for his life, terrible WRs who kept dropping passes...all that decreased his accuracy numbers. So, I know you haven't pulled up the film or you would know that. I would even go as far to say that Jackson prefers to pass. When he had time, you can watch his head go through progressions. He has a need to prove he is a passing QB. He throws the nicest ball of all the QBs. The amount of force he can generate with just a wrist snap is awe inspiring. His accuracy is quite good. He throws a superb deep ball. I have one criticism and only one. He throws with too much heat on short passes. He needs to learn touch on the easy ones. That's easily correctable.

[Shawn]

It’s no different than passing on a QB because he went to a certain school. Outside of USC it’s just a foolish way to evaluate individual talent. Exactly, it's sloppy and lazy. If you don't do the work to truly evaluate a player then why even act like you know what you are talking about?

[Steel Maniac]

Exactly, it's sloppy and lazy. If you don't do the work to truly evaluate a player then why even act like you know what you are talking about?

Okay. You'll see. :smile:

[Steel Maniac]

You are wrong. First, there were many plays built for Jacksons legs. Second, The UoL OL was the worst in college football. He's not a one check down passer. But, he was indeed running for his life. Running for his life, terrible WRs who kept dropping passes...all that decreased his accuracy numbers. So, I know you haven't pulled up the film or you would know that. I would even go as far to say that Jackson prefers to pass. When he had time, you can watch his head go through progressions. He has a need to prove he is a passing QB. He throws the nicest ball of all the QBs. The amount of force he can generate with just a wrist snap is awe inspiring. His accuracy is quite good. He throws a superb deep ball. I have one criticism and only one. He throws with too much heat on short passes. He needs to learn touch on the easy ones. That's easily correctable.

Okay. You'll see. :smile: I just lock in the captions for future reference.

[Shawn]

I disagree on reads. in fact, with the RPO, he made the wrong read OFTEN, but, made up for it because of point #1 that you made - he's just simply a fantastic athlete. Moreover, I was annoyed that he did something that no other QBs under Petrino (at least at Louisville) ever had to do. "Check with me" at the LOS before the play. He'd look over to the sideline, get a play, then run the play. The Brohms', Chris Redman's, Dave Ragone's and NONE of the prior QBs he had here had that. They simply walked up, had the ability (and coach's trust) to audible if they saw something.

On the positive side, He has a cannon. Can throw it 50 yards, and it doesn't get more than 10 feet off the ground like the typical, high-arching passes from most QBs, much like Vick did back in the day. That cannon, also means (like Vick) that he has troubles with touch. Quite a few of his short passes were just dropped because he threw the fastball on every pass - even on the screen pass.

I never understood how a guy who ran RPOs so much made the wrong read so often. Or had to "check with me" at the LOS... Or a guy who clearly had throw many footballs couldn't figure how to throw something other than a fastball. and then... he took the wonderlic and confirmed all of DeVille's concerns. The guy just aint that bright.

Good kid. I hope he succeeds. He'll be fun to watch. But, I hope the steelers pass. It'll be just like defending Vick - so, i hope he lands in the NFC somewhere.

I won't disagree about the too much heat on easy passes. That showed up on film. As for how bright he is...I have not given him an IQ test. He may not be that bright. Neither was Marino. He may need more film work. He may need more coaching up when it comes to the mental aspects. What I know is he is the best athlete in this draft and has the highest ceiling. I think the things you speak about can be corrected and coached around.

[Shawn]

Okay. You'll see. :smile: Even if I'm wrong, at least I did the work to have an educated opinion about a player.

[Steel Maniac]

Even if I'm wrong, at least I did the work to have an educated opinion about a player.

I did the work too. You just don't want to acknowledge it because it goes against what you believe. And that's fine. I've captioned your quotes.

I've got over 30 years of running QB's research.

[Shawn]

I did the work too. You just don't want to acknowledge it because it goes against what you believe. And that's fine. I've captioned your quotes.

I've got over 30 years of running QB's research. No, I say it because it's clear you haven't. When you have to speak about the success of "running QBs" and the things you say don't show up on film then I will question said opinion. And that goes for anyone on here.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I've captioned your quotes.


What does this mean?

[feltdizz]

I disagree on reads. in fact, with the RPO, he made the wrong read OFTEN, but, made up for it because of point #1 that you made - he's just simply a fantastic athlete. Moreover, I was annoyed that he did something that no other QBs under Petrino (at least at Louisville) ever had to do. "Check with me" at the LOS before the play. He'd look over to the sideline, get a play, then run the play. The Brohms', Chris Redman's, Dave Ragone's and NONE of the prior QBs he had here had that. They simply walked up, had the ability (and coach's trust) to audible if they saw something.

On the positive side, He has a cannon. Can throw it 50 yards, and it doesn't get more than 10 feet off the ground like the typical, high-arching passes from most QBs, much like Vick did back in the day. That cannon, also means (like Vick) that he has troubles with touch. Quite a few of his short passes were just dropped because he threw the fastball on every pass - even on the screen pass.

I never understood how a guy who ran RPOs so much made the wrong read so often. Or had to "check with me" at the LOS... Or a guy who clearly had throw many footballs couldn't figure how to throw something other than a fastball. and then... he took the wonderlic and confirmed all of DeVille's concerns. The guy just aint that bright.

Good kid. I hope he succeeds. He'll be fun to watch. But, I hope the steelers pass. It'll be just like defending Vick - so, i hope he lands in the NFC somewhere.

I think he is more like Cam Newton. Cam didn’t call plays in college either and also lacks touch on short passes. Cam was knocked for looking to the sideline to get plays too.

As far as looking to the sideline for the play. A ton of QB’s in college operate this way because the way the game has changed. Hell, I would be surprised if any QB is audibling and has full control over the offense.

Deshaun Watson did it at Clemson too. It’s just the way offenses are run these days.

Quick question, how did all those other QB’s from the Ville do at the pro level who didn’t look to the sidelines before running plays?

One other thing, Dobbs is a rocket scientist and I’m pretty sure he looked to the sidelines to get plays. Don’t quote me on it but I think it’s just something most college offenses do these days.

[feltdizz]

No, I say it because it's clear you haven't. When you have to speak about the success of "running QBs" and the things you say don't show up on film then I will question said opinion. And that goes for anyone on here.

He said Dobbs wasn’t a running QB at Tennessee.

He is all emotion and rarely uses facts to justify his opinion.

It’s obvious he is using Kipers talking points when talking about Jackson. I bet he never watched a full game.

[Shawn]

He said Dobbs wasn’t a running QB at Tennessee.

He is all emotion and rarely uses facts to justify his opinion.

It’s obvious he is using Kipers talking points when talking about Jackson. I bet he never watched a full game. I fully agree. I mean one of two things is happening here...either he is lying or he is blind. It's one of the two.

[Shawn]

I think he is more like Cam Newton. Cam didn’t call plays in college either and also lacks touch on short passes. Cam was knocked for looking to the sideline to get plays too.

As far as looking to the sideline for the play. A ton of QB’s in college operate this way because the way the game has changed. Hell, I would be surprised if any QB is audibling and has full control over the offense.

Deshaun Watson did it at Clemson too. It’s just the way offenses are run these days.

Quick question, how did all those other QB’s from the Ville do at the pro level who didn’t look to the sidelines before running plays?

One other thing, Dobbs is a rocket scientist and I’m pretty sure he looked to the sidelines to get plays. Don’t quote me on it but I think it’s just something most college offenses do these days. I don't know how bright Jackson is...but I'll say one football scout stated he had strong football intelligence. Take that for what it's worth. That's harder for me to assess from film.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Unfortunate for us it's looking more & more like none of the ILBs will make it to us. My eyes hurt but finally finished watching as much games of ILB prospects as I can. With the Pats getting in front of us I think the last one comes off the Board no later then the 22-23 Duo of Bills & Pats. Now that visits are done..I'll take my guess at what the Plan A, B, & C are. Addressing ILB, S, WR since that seems to be their early focus.


Plan A:


Trade up to Sea #18. Steelers get #18 & #120...Seattle gets #28 & #60.


1. Evans ILB
3. Edmunds/White/Moore/Allen
4. From Trade


The Confirmed visits has me feeling a Trade up if they can. Think they will DOUBLE DIP inside too. Evans will unseat Bostic or VW early. Evans value is he's also a good edge rusher which I think is the Steelers draw to him. He was recruited to Bama for this. Any Questions on Evans? Dunbar has the answers. Address S next pick in 3rd.




Plan B: (ILB Gone)
1. Reid
2. Jefferson


Reid fast Riser. Have this "That's their guy" feeling if Evans gone. Jefferson came out on Advisory Board he's a 1st or 2nd. If he's gone I think pick is Washington or Pettis. They will address ILB in 3rd with Avery, Baker, Leonard, or Hamilton if there.


Plan C: (ILB Gone & Reid Gone)
1.BPA Landry/Guice/Jackson Any Position but OT & DE IMO


Addressing ILB & S in 2 & 3...Besides players mentioned already..Harrison/Bates in 2nd if Jefferson Gone.




AGAIN..What the "Breadcrumbs" have me thinking.

[feltdizz]

I don't know how bright Jackson is...but I'll say one football scout stated he had strong football intelligence. Take that for what it's worth. That's harder for me to assess from film.

Yeah. I’m more concerned with football IQ not overall intrlligence. Bradshaw wasn’t that smart.

I cant wait to see how it pans out for these QB’s this year.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Unfortunate for us it's looking more & more like none of the ILBs will make it to us. My eyes hurt but finally finished watching as much games of ILB prospects as I can. With the Pats getting in front of us I think the last one comes off the Board no later then the 22-23 Duo of Bills & Pats. Now that visits are done..I'll take my guess at what the Plan A, B, & C are. Addressing ILB, S, WR since that seems to be their early focus.


Plan A:


Trade up to Sea #18. Steelers get #18 & #120...Seattle gets #28 & #60.


1. Evans ILB
3. Edmunds/White/Moore/Allen
4. From Trade


The Confirmed visits has me feeling a Trade up if they can. Think they will DOUBLE DIP inside too. Evans will unseat Bostic or VW early. Evans value is he's also a good edge rusher which I think is the Steelers draw to him. He was recruited to Bama for this. Any Questions on Evans? Dunbar has the answers. Address S next pick in 3rd.




Plan B: (ILB Gone)
1. Reid
2. Jefferson


Reid fast Riser. Have this "That's their guy" feeling if Evans gone. Jefferson came out on Advisory Board he's a 1st or 2nd. If he's gone I think pick is Washington or Pettis. They will address ILB in 3rd with Baker, Leonard, or Hamilton if there.


Plan C: (ILB Gone & Reid Gone)
1.BPA Landry/Guice/Jackson Any Position but OT & DE IMO


Addressing ILB & S in 2 & 3...Besides players mentioned already..Harrison/Bates in 2nd if Jefferson Gone.




AGAIN..What the "Breadcrumbs" have me thinking.

Although they could certainly use a LB, Buffalo's biggest needs are QB (A.J. McCarron is a bridge QB for them) and o-line (they lost their top tackle, guard, and center after trading Cordy Glenn and both Richie Incognito and Eric Wood retired). They either package their picks to move up into the top 5 or 6 picks overall to get one of the top QB's, or else they stay put and grab either Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and an o-lineman.

Although they could certainly use a LB, New England's biggest needs are OT (Brady's blindside protector Nate Solder signed with the Giants) and CB (they got torched through the air in the Super Bowl when Belichick benched Malcolm Butler, who has since signed with the Titans). And if they do decide to take a LB, I think they'd prefer an edge-rusher type such as Harold Landry over an off-the-ball type like Leighton Vander Esch or Rashaan Evans.

I think people are freaking out. Roquan Smith, Tremaine Edmunds, Leighton Vander Esch, and Rashaan Evans are all off-the-ball linebackers, which aren't valued as highly as quarterbacks, edge rushers, offensive tackles, cornerbacks, 3-technique defensive tackles, and wide receivers. When was the last time FOUR off-the-ball linebackers came off the board in the top 27 picks? I think at least one and possibly two of them will be available if we just stay put at #28.

I'm the one who originally brought up the possibility of trading our 1st and 2nd to Seattle for their 1st and 4th, but I'm only doing it if a guy who I feel is a top 10 type of talent (such as Roquan Smith or Derwin James) were to fall into the late teens. I really don't like the idea of making that trade for someone like Evans. If he falls to us, then great...that's not a guy I'm trading premium picks for, though.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Although they could certainly use a LB, Buffalo's biggest needs are QB (A.J. McCarron is a bridge QB for them) and o-line (they lost their top tackle, guard, and center after trading Cordy Glenn and both Richie Incognito and Eric Wood retired). They either package their picks to move up into the top 5 or 6 picks overall to get one of the top QB's, or else they stay put and grab either Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and an o-lineman.


Although they could certainly use a LB, New England's biggest needs are OT (Brady's blindside protector Nate Solder signed with the Giants) and CB (they got torched through the air in the Super Bowl when Belichick benched Malcolm Butler, who has since signed with the Titans). And if they do decide to take a LB, I think they'd prefer an edge-rusher type such as Harold Landry over an off-the-ball type like Leighton Vander Esch or Rashaan Evans.


I think people are freaking out. Roquan Smith, Tremaine Edmunds, Leighton Vander Esch, and Rashaan Evans are all off-the-ball linebackers, which aren't valued as highly as quarterbacks, edge rushers, offensive tackles, cornerbacks, 3-technique defensive tackles, and wide receivers. When was the last time FOUR off-the-ball linebackers came off the board in the top 27 picks? I think at least one and possibly two of them will be available if we just stay put at #28.


I'm the one who originally brought up the possibility of trading our 1st and 2nd to Seattle for their 1st and 4th, but I'm only doing it if a guy who I feel is a top 10 type of talent (such as Roquan Smith or Derwin James) were to fall into the late teens. I really don't like the idea of making that trade for someone like Evans. If he falls to us, then great...that's not a guy I'm trading premium picks for, though.




Bills will ill address QB AT 12.


Pats biggest needs are OT & LB. Weak tackle class which is back end of first where Pats will address.




That trade up scenario was an example which is on almost every website you look on because Seattle has no 2 & 3. Wasn't picked up on you.




Whats valued to the Steelers is unique to their roster & where they are at...Always has been. ILB right now is their bleeder & if they feel they need one of the 4 because one won't be there...They very well could
go get. Didn't give up premium picks. Gave up a 2nd & got a 4th back. Premium would be what you would need to give up to move from 28 to Top 10 for Smith...A future 1st..Not happening. I have Evans ranked Higher than LVE.

[feltdizz]

I think Buffalo is drafting a QB.

[Steel Maniac]

Although they could certainly use a LB, Buffalo's biggest needs are QB (A.J. McCarron is a bridge QB for them) and o-line (they lost their top tackle, guard, and center after trading Cordy Glenn and both Richie Incognito and Eric Wood retired). They either package their picks to move up into the top 5 or 6 picks overall to get one of the top QB's, or else they stay put and grab either Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and an o-lineman.

Although they could certainly use a LB, New England's biggest needs are OT (Brady's blindside protector Nate Solder signed with the Giants) and CB (they got torched through the air in the Super Bowl when Belichick benched Malcolm Butler, who has since signed with the Titans). And if they do decide to take a LB, I think they'd prefer an edge-rusher type such as Harold Landry over an off-the-ball type like Leighton Vander Esch or Rashaan Evans.

I think people are freaking out. Roquan Smith, Tremaine Edmunds, Leighton Vander Esch, and Rashaan Evans are all off-the-ball linebackers, which aren't valued as highly as quarterbacks, edge rushers, offensive tackles, cornerbacks, 3-technique defensive tackles, and wide receivers. When was the last time FOUR off-the-ball linebackers came off the board in the top 27 picks? I think at least one and possibly two of them will be available if we just stay put at #28.

I'm the one who originally brought up the possibility of trading our 1st and 2nd to Seattle for their 1st and 4th, but I'm only doing it if a guy who I feel is a top 10 type of talent (such as Roquan Smith or Derwin James) were to fall into the late teens. I really don't like the idea of making that trade for someone like Evans. If he falls to us, then great...that's not a guy I'm trading premium picks for, though.

You could be right Ruth, I don't think all four ILB's will be gone by our pick. I think we will have a shoot at # 28 at two of the four when I factor in a couple of WR's and another QB (Jackson) going in the teens. And if Rudolph goes before # 28, all the better.

I too don't want to trade up unless it is a real special guy like Darwin James. He's a playmaker/game changer. I can't see Smith making it to us past the Raiders.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I think Buffalo is drafting a QB.


Agreed...At 12.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Bills will ill address QB AT 12.


Pats biggest needs are OT & LB. Weak tackle class which is back end of first where Pats will address.




That trade up scenario was an example which is on almost every website you look on because Seattle has no 2 & 3. Wasn't picked up on you.




Whats valued to the Steelers is unique to their roster & where they are at...Always has been. ILB right now is their bleeder & if they feel they need one of the 4 because one won't be there...They very well could
go get. Didn't give up premium picks. Gave up a 2nd & got a 4th back. Premium would be what you would need to give up to move from 28 to Top 10 for Smith...A future 1st..Not happening.

Giving up a 2nd and getting back a 4th is giving up a premium pick.

In our last 5 drafts, the only 2nd round pick who was a bust was Senquez Golson (we got Le'Veon Bell, Stephon Tuitt, Sean Davis, and Juju Smith-Schuster in the 2nd round of those drafts).

In our last 5 drafts, the only 4th round pick who was an impact player was Martavis Bryant (we got Shamarko Thomas, Landry Jones, Doran Grant, Jerald Hawkins, and Joshua Dobbs in the 4th round of those drafts).

There is a big difference between a 2nd and 4th. And I'm only making that trade for a dominant type of player.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

With Foster issues I think you see them go LB & Raiders. 17 picks a long way for Evans & LVE to fall. Hope you guys are right.

[Disco1981]

I don't know how bright Jackson is...but I'll say one football scout stated he had strong football intelligence. Take that for what it's worth. That's harder for me to assess from film.

If our draft unfolded like this...I would wet my pants...And it wouldn't be pee

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

You mean like dominant in college like Jarvis Jones? Our last 5 1st were Watt, Burns, Dupree, Shazier, Jones... Your point now to the 1st.


Smith is a prospect just like Evans. Of course I take him over Evans but price to high. Your not sniffing him for a 2nd. It will cost you a future 1. That's a premium.




If you're chancing a 2nd this year to sure up your weakness to get to a SB in a window...That's a smart move. If you think the drop off to the next guy doesn't help you..you pick up the phone. I'll support them giving up a 2 to go get a ILB if they think he helps them this year.

[Steel Maniac]

...if the Steelers traded up to get Mason Rudolph or Baker Mayfield??????

Since they got stop gap solutions in free agency at Safety and ILB, they could make a move like this if they are in love with one of the QBs

Not sure I would like trading up, but I would love to get either Rudolph or Mayfield...especially the latter

I"m wondering would we dare just trade out of the 1st round all together if none of the top 4 linebackers are there for us at 28.?

[pittpete]

I like that idea....

[SidSmythe]

This QB draft class is the most overrated draft class I can ever remember.
You have 5 equally questionable QBs who would have late first or 2nd round ratings in any other draft class but somehow 4 of them could go to Top 10???

I'd take Mason Rudolph over the top 5 without hesitation but no way i'd take him inside of the top 20.

Out of the Top 5 I think ONE will be a very good QB. The question is no one knows which one it will be.
Something tells me its ROSEN (if he goes to a nice cozy dome) with Mayfield and Allen being the wild cards.

[Disco1981]

This QB draft class is the most overrated draft class I can ever remember.
You have 5 equally questionable QBs who would have late first or 2nd round ratings in any other draft class but somehow 4 of them could go to Top 10???

I'd take Mason Rudolph over the top 5 without hesitation but no way i'd take him inside of the top 20.

Out of the Top 5 I think ONE will be a very good QB. The question is no one knows which one it will be.
Something tells me its ROSEN (if he goes to a nice cozy dome) with Mayfield and Allen being the wild cards.

You would take him over the top 5, but not in the top 20...I don't understand, please explain

[Slapstick]

You would take him over the top 5, but not in the top 20...I don't understand, please explain

He would choose Rudolph over any of the other top 5 consensus QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson), but would not spend a top 20 draft pick on any of them...

[SidSmythe]

He would choose Rudolph over any of the other top 5 consensus QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson), but would not spend a top 20 draft pick on any of them...

Thank you.
I could use a PR man or a Press Secretary.
The job is yours if you want it. :) :p

[feltdizz]

You would take him over the top 5, but not in the top 20...I don't understand, please explain
The QB’s aren’t top 20 talent this year.

[Slapstick]

Thank you.
I could use a PR man or a Press Secretary.
The job is yours if you want it. :) :p

Hey, man, I simply understood you...

My own PR suffers around here sometimes...

[Disco1981]

You would take him over the top 5, but not in the top 20...I don't understand, please explain

Ok...I was half asleep...Guess it wasn't quite as complicated as I tried to make it

[Slapstick]

Ok...I was half asleep...Guess it wasn't quite as complicated as I tried to make it

It happens to all of us at one time or another...

[Steel Maniac]

This QB draft class is the most overrated draft class I can ever remember.
You have 5 equally questionable QBs who would have late first or 2nd round ratings in any other draft class but somehow 4 of them could go to Top 10???

I'd take Mason Rudolph over the top 5 without hesitation but no way i'd take him inside of the top 20.

Out of the Top 5 I think ONE will be a very good QB. The question is no one knows which one it will be.
Something tells me its ROSEN (if he goes to a nice cozy dome) with Mayfield and Allen being the wild cards.

Rudolph and Mayfield are my picks to make it out of this draft class. They are saying that Lamar Jackson is also a top 20 pick which has me happy. Because Rudolph will go right behind him somewhere before we pick at # 28; meaning 6 QB's in the first round (which will be a record) and that pushes someone really good down to us. To be greedy, I'm now hoping more then two wide receivers also go before we pick as well as more than just one runningback. :smile:

[RuthlessBurgher]

To be greedy, I'm now hoping more then two wide receivers also go before we pick as well as more than just one runningback. :smile:

Why do you want more than one RB drafted before us if you want us to draft Guice, who seems to be the consensus #2 RB according to most pundits?

[Steel Maniac]

Why do you want more than one RB drafted before us if you want us to draft Guice, who seems to be the consensus #2 RB according to most pundits?

Well, if all those QB's are taken, and WR's and Runningbacks, I know damn well we will get one of those ILB"s we want! LOL. This runningback class is so deep that I'd be fine waiting until round 2 to address the Bell situation.

My want for the Super Bowl is greater than anything else.

[Slapstick]

And a rookie ILB will put the Steelers in the Super Bowl?

[papillon]

And a rookie ILB will put the Steelers in the Super Bowl?

Well, the veterans didn't work out last year. :p

Pappy

[Slapstick]

Well, the veterans didn't work out last year. :p

Pappy

Fair point...

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Question for the board - is it pretty obvious the FO decided to *Not* go all in to get us to the SB this year?

I only ask because it seems that they didn't plug up our LB and safety holes with Class A FAs this off season. And like was mentioned just above, the chances of rookies doing that well enough this year to get past top-notch QBs are pretty much zero.

Do you guys agree ... the FO is pretty much saying though we might get lucky, the most likely outcome of this year is to tee us up for the SB next year?

On a personal note, that would be very disappointing to me if true. Besides not *really* knowing what Ben's window is, we almost certainly won't have Bell next year. That fact alone probably drops our chances of making the SB next year by a *lot*!

[fordfixer]

What does this mean?
I think it means that they are now engaged ( providing Shawn accepts)

[Slapstick]

Question for the board - is it pretty obvious the FO decided to *Not* go all in to get us to the SB this year?

I only ask because it seems that they didn't plug up our LB and safety holes with Class A FAs this off season. And like was mentioned just above, the chances of rookies doing that well enough this year to get past top-notch QBs are pretty much zero.

Do you guys agree ... the FO is pretty much saying though we might get lucky, the most likely outcome of this year is to tee us up for the SB next year?

On a personal note, that would be very disappointing to me if true. Besides not *really* knowing what Ben's window is, we almost certainly won't have Bell next year. That fact alone probably drops our chances of making the SB next year by a *lot*!

Would you think that the FO was going all in to win a SB this year by dropping Bell and using that money to sign “Class A FAs”? Because that was the alternative...

Bostic supposedly isn’t class A, but started 14 games last year (could have been 15 but the Colts IRd him for game 16) and had 100 tackles...

Morgan Burnett supposedly isn’t class A, but has started at multiple positions in a Don Capers defense (similar to ours) and played well...

If those guys can even maintain their level of play, it will be a huge boost to our defense...

All of the starting spots are filled with capable players, which we could not say last year after Shazier was hurt...now, you just use the draft to improve the team by picking the best players...

Colbert has made sure that there is no burning, desperate need heading into the draft...that means the FO is doing what it needs to do to win this year...

[fordfixer]

I thought the FO did what it thinks it needs to do to win every year :oops:

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Would you think that the FO was going all in to win a SB this year by dropping Bell and using that money to sign “Class A FAs”? Because that was the alternative...

Bostic supposedly isn’t class A, but started 14 games last year (could have been 15 but the Colts IRd him for game 16) and had 100 tackles...

Morgan Burnett supposedly isn’t class A, but has started at multiple positions in a Don Capers defense (similar to ours) and played well...

If those guys can even maintain their level of play, it will be a huge boost to our defense...

All of the starting spots are filled with capable players, which we could not say last year after Shazier was hurt...now, you just use the draft to improve the team by picking the best players...

Colbert has made sure that there is no burning, desperate need heading into the draft...that means the FO is doing what it needs to do to win this year...


That's actually a good point you raise with your question Slap - that we couldn't have afforded two "Class A" defensive backs this year without letting Bell go.

I do think it's a valid question which scenario puts us in a better position to win this year - Class A safety and ILB but no Bell ... vs. serviceable guys in the defensive backfield with Bell. I defer to the wisdom of the FO on this one.

Still rubs me raw that Bell will not show up till after the pre-season. If he starts slow again and it costs us a game and a good post-season spot ... I'll be really P.O.'d (you hear that Leveon?? Yes, I'm lookin' at you!! :-) )

[Steel Maniac]

That's actually a good point you raise with your question Slap - that we couldn't have afforded two "Class A" defensive backs this year without letting Bell go.

I do think it's a valid question which scenario puts us in a better position to win this year - Class A safety and ILB but no Bell ... vs. serviceable guys in the defensive backfield with Bell. I defer to the wisdom of the FO on this one.

Still rubs me raw that Bell will not show up till after the pre-season. If he starts slow again and it costs us a game and a good post-season spot ... I'll be really P.O.'d (you hear that Leveon?? Yes, I'm lookin' at you!! :-) )

It took Bell three games last year to get in sync/shape with the offense. If he does the same thing this year in missing all the camps and pre-season, you can't help but feel it's going to take him that long again...plus, we have a new offensive coordinator who's going to do things differently then Haley did; that has to factored into this as well.

That's why (in my opinion) it is important to have another runningback who's capable and in place to take all the camp reps, attend all the offensive meetings, and to get in sync/shape with the offense so our offense can be at it's best starting game one.

I think if we get (or that Connor proves to be capable) that runningback, and he starts out great, Bell might not be the starter in game one. And might not get the starting job back period. It's possible. Because Bell is leaving it wide open to happen.

The entire Steeler empire wants to be ready game one; None of us wants to see the team going out their with only 70 percent of maximum effectiveness ( possibly giving a game away) because of our primadonna running backs shenanigans. So, it behoves Colbert to get another runningback within the first 3 rounds of this draft. We can't afford to give games away if we have any hope of securing home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

We threw away a game to the Bears last year and look what it cost us? We can't afford to give away games.

I like our opening three games; Those games we should win and be able to establish a rhythm both on offense and defense. If we have to break in new guys at key spots on both sides of the ball, I like how those first 3 look to do that.

[Slapstick]

“Giving away” the Bears game wouldn’t have hurt so much if the Pats* game hadn’t been taken away by Al Riveron...

[Buzz]

“Giving away” the Bears game wouldn’t have hurt so much if the Pats* game hadn’t been taken away by Al Riveron...

Conversely, having the Pats* game taken away by Al Riveron wouldn't have hurt so much if the Bears game hadn't been "given away." Just saying.

[Slapstick]

Conversely, having the Pats* game taken away by Al Riveron wouldn't have hurt so much if the Bears game hadn't been "given away." Just saying.

No doubt...IMO there is a difference between losing a road game to a team who went 4-0 against your division to losing any​ game because a guy more than 300 miles away said you did...

[Buzz]

No doubt...IMO there is a difference between losing a road game to a team who went 4-0 against your division to losing any​ game because a guy more than 300 miles away said you did...

Interesting that you didn't say "there's a difference between losing a game to a team who went 5-11 and losing a game to a team who went 15-4 and represented the AFC in the Super Bowl".

Look, like you, I'm steamed about what happened with Riveron in that Pats* game -- but c'mon, the Steelers should have beaten the Bears handily.

[Slapstick]

Interesting that you didn't say "there's a difference between losing a game to a team who went 5-11 and losing a game to a team who went 15-4 and represented the AFC in the Super Bowl".

Look, like you, I'm steamed about what happened with Riveron in that Pats* game -- but c'mon, the Steelers should have beaten the Bears handily.

Any given Sunday...

I can live with a game being decided on the field, even if it doesn’t go the way I want...

I just can’t deal with bureaucrats who aren’t anywhere near the field deciding the outcome...

[Steel Maniac]

Interesting that you didn't say "there's a difference between losing a game to a team who went 5-11 and losing a game to a team who went 15-4 and represented the AFC in the Super Bowl".

Look, like you, I'm steamed about what happened with Riveron in that Pats* game -- but c'mon, the Steelers should have beaten the Bears handily.

It's called "spin". Spin isn't the truth. I said the truth. We lost to a sorry Bears team.

[Buzz]

It's called "spin". Spin isn't the truth. I said the truth. We lost to a sorry Bears team.

Yep. People can polish that loss up all they want, but it's still a turrd.

[Slapstick]

Yep. People can polish that loss up all they want, but it's still a turrd.

It is...no polishing...

But, any given Sunday...upsets happen every week...

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Iwouldn't be happy trading up to grab any QB. If one falls to us and the FO believes that he is the top prospect there then I'm ok with it. But trading up signals a dire need and I don't think that this team is there right now.

I would much prefer in that scenario that a QB needy team jumps up to 28 to grab their QB (if there is nobody who our FO loves) and the Steelers grab some extra picks. Although, history tells me that the team will have someone they want really bad and almost sprint to the podium. Has any team spent less time on the clock in the first round the last five years or so than the Steelers? Even teams who pick first overall don't get their first round picks in as fast.

[Steel Maniac]

Iwouldn't be happy trading up to grab any QB. If one falls to us and the FO believes that he is the top prospect there then I'm ok with it. But trading up signals a dire need and I don't think that this team is there right now.

I would much prefer in that scenario that a QB needy team jumps up to 28 to grab their QB (if there is nobody who our FO loves) and the Steelers grab some extra picks. Although, history tells me that the team will have someone they want really bad and almost sprint to the podium. Has any team spent less time on the clock in the first round the last five years or so than the Steelers? Even teams who pick first overall don't get their first round picks in as fast.

Hahahhaahahhaha...just look at it as good scouting; We know the prospects and once our turn comes up, we know what we want. That's all. :smile:

[feltdizz]

Yep. People can polish that loss up all they want, but it's still a turrd.

yup.. but a quick glance shows Chicago's defense was ranked in the top 10 and their offense was ranked much lower...

while our O is supposed to put up big numbers that RARELY happens early in the season, especially on the road.

Our D didn't show up at all which is a shame because Chicago's passing offense was GAAAHHHHBAGE so we should have been all over the run in that game.

[Slapstick]

yup.. but a quick glance shows Chicago's defense was ranked in the top 10 and their offense was ranked much lower...

while our O is supposed to put up big numbers that RARELY happens early in the season, especially on the road.

Our D didn't show up at all which is a shame because Chicago's passing offense was GAAAHHHHBAGE so we should have been all over the run in that game.

All Tomlin's fault...:rolleyes:

[feltdizz]

All Tomlin's fault...:rolleyes:

and Bell

I'm trying to remember the last time we won a game in Chicago.

I looked it up and it was 1995.

last 2 games in Chicago we have been ugly on offense and did just enough to lose on defense.

[Slapstick]

and Bell

I'm trying to remember the last time we won a game in Chicago.

I looked it up and it was 1995.

last 2 games in Chicago we have been ugly on offense and did just enough to lose on defense.

I remember a game in Chicago where Skippy Reed missed two FGs...either one would have tied the game...both would have won it...both FGs were under 45 yards...

[feltdizz]

I remember a game in Chicago where Skippy Reed missed two FGs...either one would have tied the game...both would have won it...both FGs were under 45 yards...

2009.. we found some crazy ways to lose games that year

[Oviedo]

I'm starting to believe we may take a QB at #28.

It appears that with the LVE health rumors he may be dropping out of Round 1. Evans could very well be gone well before we pick along with the best Safety prospects.

The best players on the board could very well be Mason Rudolph or Lamar Jackson. If that is the case probably wouldn't be bad to get Ben's replacement

[Slapstick]

If LVE drops off the board due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to lose faith in people...

[RuthlessBurgher]

If LVE drops off the board due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to lose faith in people...

If LVE drops down to us at pick #28 due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to celebrate if we select him...

[Oviedo]

If LVE drops off the board due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to lose faith in people...

I hope we have sufficient evidence to refute the reports and we can get LVE at #28. He is still my favorite choice.

Maybe we started the rumor so he would drop????????

[Slapstick]

I hope we have sufficient evidence to refute the reports and we can get LVE at #28. He is still my favorite choice.

Maybe we started the rumor so he would drop????????

The crazy thing is, THE ENTIRE NFL HAS SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE!!

He received a thorough medical evaluation at the combine. This is a piece explaining the process from a few years ago:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1968230-an-inside-look-into-the-nfl-medical-exam-process-at-the-combine

There is also a re-examination that players are asked to participate in if there are further questions, for example, rehabilitation from an injury. He was not asked to return. He was not red flagged by a comprehensive medical exam. Now, some dude from Walter Football torpedoes his draft stock?

It is crazy...

[Steel Maniac]

If LVE drops down to us at pick #28 due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to celebrate if we select him...

You like LVE now? You were not in his camp early on.

I trust that Colbert has the real skinny on LVE medical condition.

[RuthlessBurgher]

You like LVE now? You were not in his camp early on.

I trust that Colbert has the real skinny on LVE medical condition.

I wasn't? He's been in my sig mock for over a month now. Although my ideal situation has always been a tradeup for Roquan Smith if at all possible (probably not, but one can still hope), Vander Esch has been my default choice at #28 since before free agency started.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Multiple Post Gazette Boys were asked about LVE medical & EVANS non 40 in their chats. They have all said they arent concerned with LVE or Evans. Take that for what it's worth. I don't believe they would pass on either at #28.

[Shawn]

If LVE drops down to us at pick #28 due to an unsubstantiated rumor, one actually refuted by his medical report from the combine, I really will start to celebrate if we select him... Considering at best he is a second round talent...I would be horrified.

[Slapstick]

Considering at best he is a second round talent...I would be horrified.

Not a big difference between 1-28 and the 2nd round...if he’s the highest rated player...

[Shawn]

Not a big difference between 1-28 and the 2nd round...if he’s the highest rated player... If he is, someone on the Steeler staff didn't do their homework. He is Dupree but plays inside.

[Slapstick]

If he is, someone on the Steeler staff didn't do their homework. He is Dupree but plays inside.

If you are correct, then I hope that Cincinnati scoops him up...

For me, it it were between LVE and Guice, I would go RB...

[feltdizz]

I think we take LVE if he is available. He isn’t Shazier but his pass coverage and blitzing is something I bet we are looking for in a LB. He seems a little smallish like Shazier too. Not sure if that will be a liability or not when it comes to run support.

[Shawn]

I think we take LVE if he is available. He isn’t Shazier but his pass coverage and blitzing is something I bet we are looking for in a LB. He seems a little smallish like Shazier too. Not sure if that will be a liability or not when it comes to run support. LVE is a big dude but plays small. Has elite measurables but cant engage/disengage/diagnose and shed. He can track sideline to sideline well. I think he could match up in coverage with some experience. But, I think he would be a huge liability in run support.

[Shawn]

If you are correct, then I hope that Cincinnati scoops him up...

For me, it it were between LVE and Guice, I would go RB... I agree, would rather have Guice but I don't want either. This RB class is super deep. I would rather roll with safety, TE, or even a WR before going running back in the first.

[Slapstick]

Personally, I hope Colbert remembers that he said this:


“When you pass up a highly rated player to take a player lower, significantly lower, you will end up regretting it. I’ve seen it happen, and I’ve been a part of it in the past. We are all guilty of focusing on one year.”

[RuthlessBurgher]

I think we take LVE if he is available. He isn’t Shazier but his pass coverage and blitzing is something I bet we are looking for in a LB. He seems a little smallish like Shazier too. Not sure if that will be a liability or not when it comes to run support.

Vander Esch is not smallish. He's 6'4" and 256 lbs. Rashaan Evans is 6'3" and 232 lbs. That's two dozen pounds heavier!

And still LVE has a significantly better vertical jump (39.5" vs. 30"), broad jump (124" vs. 116"), 3 cone time (6.88 sec vs. 6.95 sec), and short shuttle (4.15 sec vs. 4.36 sec). We don't know what Evans' 40 time is, because he refuses to run it.

Plus, LVE had nearly twice the total tackles that Evans has last season (141 vs. 74), plus more interceptions (2 vs. 0), passes defensed (5 vs. 3) and forced fumbles (4 vs. 1), despite Evans having a MUCH better supporting cast around him, including other potential first round prospects such as DeRon Payne, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Ronnie Harrison.

And LVE isn't anywhere close to a finished product yet, having grown up playing 8 man football and only starting for one year in college. Give me Vander Esch and that tremendous upside...neck roll be damned.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

LVE play strength low. Probably take a couple years for him to elevate. Steelers & fans will have to be patient for ceiling.




Stats not good Guage... Boise had LVE &....Yeah. That conference & superior athlete on D...That's your stats. The saying of Best Player Best Game.




Bama stacked so that's why it's hard to gauge. But in that situation..There are a lot seated at the table feeding off one platter...Go to tape not stats.




Evans plays fast always around ball. Good instincts..Gets there fast gets there angry...On all tape. Evans ranked ahead of LVE IN MY book right now. Higher ceiling to LVE.




Want a good look? Apples for Apples. Big stage..Championship. Go to YouTube watch SMITH vs Alabama then Evans vs Georgia. Watch both to end. There's not 18 spots separating the two. Smith a hell of a player but clearly heads above everyone on that D. Had to make several tackles down field cleaning up mess. Evans had lots feeding around him in that D. You just don't have that kind of opponent tape for LVE. He uses his athleticism a lot to work around blocks & take angles to avoid. I think right now he would be engulfed by OL so he has some work to do. Evans clearly more downhill because he has the play strength to stack & shed and that's pivotal between tackles.


That being said...I would be happy with both. Floor higher with Evans Ceiling higher with LVE.

[RuthlessBurgher]

That being said...I would be happy with both. Floor higher with Evans Ceiling higher with LVE.

Agree with that conclusion...that about sums it up right there. A few years ago, we were making a similar choice between Ryan Shazier (higher ceiling) and C.J. Mosley (higher floor).

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Agree with that conclusion...that about sums it up right there. A few years ago, we were making a similar choice between Ryan Shazier (higher ceiling) and C.J. Mosley (higher floor).

Yep..That's why I be happy with either. Having Bostic here also helps if they need developing. No 40..Neck...No issue. Either there...Send in card.

[feltdizz]

Vander Esch is not smallish. He's 6'4" and 256 lbs. Rashaan Evans is 6'3" and 232 lbs. That's two dozen pounds heavier!

And still LVE has a significantly better vertical jump (39.5" vs. 30"), broad jump (124" vs. 116"), 3 cone time (6.88 sec vs. 6.95 sec), and short shuttle (4.15 sec vs. 4.36 sec). We don't know what Evans' 40 time is, because he refuses to run it.

Plus, LVE had nearly twice the total tackles that Evans has last season (141 vs. 74), plus more interceptions (2 vs. 0), passes defensed (5 vs. 3) and forced fumbles (4 vs. 1), despite Evans having a MUCH better supporting cast around him, including other potential first round prospects such as DeRon Payne, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Ronnie Harrison.

And LVE isn't anywhere close to a finished product yet, having grown up playing 8 man football and only starting for one year in college. Give me Vander Esch and that tremendous upside...neck roll be damned.

I don't know much about Evans. All I know is Bama players are hard to predict because everyone on the team is elite. Less tackles could be because the DL are monsters and Bama is run heavy and plays possession football.

LVE's stats are impressive though, I wouldn't mind if he was the pick. Evans highlight tape is crazy good too.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

It is hard to Guage on stats across the two conferences too. Bama had like 7 players on D with over 50 tackles. Evans Tied with lead. Georgia had 3 with 50 Boise 4. Put on tape..All players but project them. Smith & Evans have 200 playing at Boise Lol The intriguing part of LVE is his stature & athleticism. His ceiling may be higher than Smith. Problem is if he fills out frame does he carry speed...Projection. If he does...Today's nfl...A 6'5" 250 + ILB that can run seam with TE...Ceiling....Projection. But that player "could" be a better player than Smith & Evans. Anyone have crystal ball? Hence Edmunds Grade.

[RuthlessBurgher]

It is hard to Guage on stats across the two conferences too. Bama had like 7 players on D with over 50 tackles. Evans Tied with lead. Georgia had 3 with 50 Boise 4. Put on tape..All players but project them. Smith & Evans have 200 playing at Boise Lol The intriguing part of LVE is his stature & athleticism. His ceiling may be higher than Smith. Problem is if he fills out frame does he carry speed...Projection. If he does...Today's nfl...A 6'5" 250 + ILB that can run seam with TE...Ceiling....Projection. But that player "could" be a better player than Smith & Evans. Anyone have crystal ball? Hence Edmunds Grade.

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...

[Shawn]

Agree with that conclusion...that about sums it up right there. A few years ago, we were making a similar choice between Ryan Shazier (higher ceiling) and C.J. Mosley (higher floor). Shazier was leaps and bounds better than LVE and I still wanted Mosley who ended up runner up for defensive rookie of the year and a three time pro bowler. LVE is no Mosley, Shazier, or Evans...he is Dupree but plays ILB. I don't give two shoot about measurables when the film shows a guy who can't engage, disengage, gets pancaked, plays small, can't diagnose, finds himself out of position. His ceiling is based solely on what he runs in shorts. I'll stand by the evaluation...let him prove me wrong.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...

The Football Gods may not allow it lol. But if they would hit their potential...They would solidify that problem we have of finding "run & hit" guys that could cover.

[Steel Maniac]

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...

Stop playing with our emotions Ruth. :smile:

[Slapstick]

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...

Well, that would just be "the steal of the draft"...

Those two would be "perennial All-Pros" and "sure-fire Hall of Famers"...

Just getting it out of the way now, because everybody always says those things about every Steelers pick...:lol::lol::lol:

[Northern_Blitz]

Well, that would just be "the steal of the draft"...

Those two would be "perennial All-Pros" and "sure-fire Hall of Famers"...

Just getting it out of the way now, because everybody always says those things about every Steelers pick...:lol::lol::lol:

I know that you're joking, but I do believe that the Steelers philosophy of not going into a draft with glaring needs for the upcoming year does reduce the risk of reaching for guys because they don't have a starter at a particular position.

[Steel Maniac]

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...

Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports the 49ers are targeting Virginia Tech LB Tremaine Edmunds with the No. 9 pick.

The 49ers have a need at linebacker and "covet" the high upside three-down profile of Edmunds. They've also been connected to Alabama DB Minkah Fitzpatrick and may look to trade down for Boise State LB Leighton Vander Esch. Edmunds would give San Francisco insurance for MLB Reuben Foster, but has the edge-rush skills to line up at multiple spots.
Source: Draft Analyst


Makes sense for them; Thanks Reuben Foster. :-x:-x

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Well, that would just be "the steal of the draft"...

Those two would be "perennial All-Pros" and "sure-fire Hall of Famers"...

Just getting it out of the way now, because everybody always says those things about every Steelers pick...:lol::lol::lol:

I diasgree.

I declare our second seventh rouder - whoever he may be - as the official and undisputed "steal of the draft". He is not a future HOFer because they are currently measuring his head now for a bust, and he will be the first ever player inducted into the Hall of Fame prior to stepping foot on an NFL field. Needless to say, he has already made the 2018 Pro Bowl and his all-pro status has been reserved for years to come.

This is not subject to debate, and any dissenting opinion is WRONG.

BTW no smiley face emojis here. This post is serious and I will leave the board if everything here does not come true (unless I find a tiny loophole which enables me to weasel out of this declaration.)

[Slapstick]

I diasgree.

I declare our second seventh rouder - whoever he may be - as the official and undisputed "steal of the draft". He is not a future HOFer because they are currently measuring his head now for a bust, and he will be the first ever player inducted into the Hall of Fame prior to stepping foot on an NFL field. Needless to say, he has already made the 2018 Pro Bowl and his all-pro status has been reserved for years to come.

This is not subject to debate, and any dissenting opinion is WRONG.

BTW no smiley face emojis here. This post is serious and I will leave the board if everything here does not come true (unless I find a tiny loophole which enables me to weasel out of this declaration.)

You had better get phillyesq to give this a read...:lol::lol::lol:

[Oviedo]

What if Tremaine Edmunds happened to be the one to fall into the late teens? Imagine being able to trade our 1.28 and 2.60 to Seattle for 1.18 and 4.120 to get LB Tremaine Edmunds and then use pick 3.92 to get his brother SS Terrell Edmunds. Wow...


Me and a buddy were discussing grabbing the brothers just last night. That would be an excellent haul.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Me and a buddy were discussing grabbing the brothers just last night. That would be an excellent haul.

Tremaine would appear to check all the boxes...literally...elite size/speed/athletic specimen, excellent production in a power 5 conference, solid bloodlines (father was a Pro Bowl TE with the Dolphins; brother is obviously also in this draft), we sent our general manager, head coach, defensive coordinator, and ILB coach to Blacksburg for his Pro Day, and he is still only 19 (we drafted the youngest player in the draft last year in Juju). If that guy happens to slide AT ALL, I'd be on the phones immediately if I were Colbert.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Tremaine would appear to check all the boxes...literally...elite size/speed/athletic specimen, excellent production in a power 5 conference, solid bloodlines (father was a Pro Bowl TE with the Dolphins; brother is obviously also in this draft), we sent our general manager, head coach, defensive coordinator, and ILB coach to Blacksburg for his Pro Day, and he is still only 19 (we drafted the youngest player in the draft last year in Juju). If that guy happens to slide AT ALL, I'd be on the phones immediately if I were Colbert.

Looks like I zeroed in on the right family, but the wrong brother. They do share a lot of athletic traits, though. I still can't believe that we didn't trade up for Tremaine when he fell to to mid teens, especially after we gained a second 3rd round pick in the Martavis Bryant trade.

[Steel Maniac]

Looks like I zeroed in on the right family, but the wrong brother. They do share a lot of athletic traits, though. I still can't believe that we didn't trade up for Tremaine when he fell to to mid teens, especially after we gained a second 3rd round pick in the Martavis Bryant trade.

Ruth, your heart was in the right place and at this point, that’s all that matters. :)

[RuthlessBurgher]

Tremaine would appear to check all the boxes...literally...elite size/speed/athletic specimen, excellent production in a power 5 conference, solid bloodlines (father was a Pro Bowl TE with the Dolphins; brother is obviously also in this draft), we sent our general manager, head coach, defensive coordinator, and ILB coach to Blacksburg for his Pro Day, and he is still only 19 (we drafted the youngest player in the draft last year in Juju). If that guy happens to slide AT ALL, I'd be on the phones immediately if I were Colbert.

Outside of the youngest prospect thing (Terrell turned 21 in January, Tremaine turns 20 in May), everything I wrote about Tremaine above still applies to Terrell. While we may not be thrilled with the relative value of the pick at 28 on Thursday, I still liked the player coming in to the draft.

Scouting reports note that he was one of the team leaders on defense who plays with energy and smarts and possesses an impressive combination of NFL size and quick-twitch movement. These are qualities that our front office has shown are important to them over the last couple of drafts.

He's quite similar to T.J. Watt in many respects. The bloodlines, the leadership, the intelligence, the explosive athleticism, and finally the fact that they were both were seen as a second day prospect with upside as opposed to a bona fide first round stud.

While T.J Watt dominated his position group at the combine in measures of explosiveness such as vertical jump and broad jump, Terrell Edmunds dominated the entire draft class in such measures (best vertical jump at the combine among everyone at all positions, and in the broad jump he was second overall among everyone at all position behind only 4th overall pick Denzel Ward).

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Said High Football IQ & communicator. He was QB of defense. He would transition from FS, SS, Nickel Back presnap & get everyone on same page. Sounds like he was high on the Board because of what he has above the shoulders. That's the reason why, for lack of trait, that many of the best athletes coming out of college fail in the NFL. High Floor High Ceiling..See what we can get.




Also just read Jim Wexell reported the Steelers were trying to trade up in front of Titans for Evans but no takers.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Said High Football IQ & communicator. He was QB of defense. He would transition from FS, SS, Nickel Back presnap & get everyone on same page. Sounds like he was high on the Board because of what he has above the shoulders. That's the reason why, for lack of trait, that many of the best athletes coming out of college fail in the NFL. High Floor High Ceiling..See what we can get.

I'm really happy that Edmunds has a veteran mentor in Morgan Burnett, who is also an intelligent communicator and field general who has position flexibility from corner to dime backer.

I would be less enthusiastic if he was try to learn the position playing behind Mike Mitchell instead.

And hopefully our DB's as a whole can develop further under a teacher like Tom Bradley as opposed to Carnell Lake.

[Steel Maniac]

So it as Evans all along; just don’t want anyone thinking Edmunds was our first choice.

[RuthlessBurgher]

So it as Evans all along; just don’t want anyone thinking Edmunds was our first choice.

Edmunds may very well have been our first choice. Just the other Edmunds. ;)

[Slapstick]

I can understand that the Steelers liked Evans...I don’t know that any team at #28 gets their first choice....

I think it’s pretty clear that they liked him more than the other safeties still on the board...

[Steel Maniac]

No, I say it because it's clear you haven't. When you have to speak about the success of "running QBs" and the things you say don't show up on film then I will question said opinion. And that goes for anyone on here.

I've done the homework. You just don't like what history has said.

Dated August 22, 2018

Ravens OC Marty Mornhinweg expressed concern about Lamar Jackson taking too many hits as a runner this preseason.

"Yeah, that's not good," Mornhinweg said. "It's just that simple." Jackson hasn't slid at any point this preseason and took a big shot in Monday's exhibition against the Colts where he lowered his head and flipped over a defender. Jackson has rushed for 72 yards in three contests, while his passing numbers have left a lot to be desired. As a thrower, Jackson is 18-of-43 (41.9%) for 201 yards (4.7 YPA) and 2:1 TD:INT mark. Meanwhile, Joe Flacco is having the summer of his life. Jackson has put minimal pressure on Flacco in regards to the starting job.
Source: ESPN.com

[Steel Maniac]

He can't read defenses, so he takes off running.

[Steel Maniac]

Here we are; a year later............

From the Huddle this morning:

amar Jackson - QB - Baltimore Ravens
Posted 5/24/19 7:03am ET
Baltimore Ravens QB Lamar Jackson struggled with his accuracy in organized team activities, and he especially had trouble in the red zone. Jackson showed increased velocity, but several of his passes wobbled through the air. Jackson has impressed with his work in the team's conditioning program this offseason.

Huddle Up: Jackson has tremendous upside due to his legs, but he's a work in progress through the air. The silver lining is he appears to be a hard worker, which provides hope for future development.

[Buzz]

You don't have to be tops in accuracy when you can run the way he can. And his accuracy will no doubt improve. He will be a challenge for us to defend.

However, if he doesn't change his style of play, he isn't likely to get through many seasons without being injured.

[Oh wow]

Lmao. It’s the first week of OTA’s. We have a whole season or 2 before anyone should pat themselves on the back about their predictions of Jackson.

[Steel Maniac]

You don't have to be tops in accuracy when you can run the way he can. And his accuracy will no doubt improve. He will be a challenge for us to defend.

However, if he doesn't change his style of play, he isn't likely to get through many seasons without being injured.

I kinda disagree Buzz; because first, you can't run around forever because your going to get caught by someone. Ask RG3 and Michael Vick. And accuracy is the most important thing in today's NFL Quarterbacks. That's why if Josh Allen doesn't get his up to the required 60% and above that all successful quarterbacks in today's NFL throw, then he too won't make it long term.

[hawaiiansteel]

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson critical of his throwing

By Herbie Teope
Around The NFL Writer
Published: May 24, 2019

After completing just 58.2 percent of his passes in 2018, Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson knew he had some work to accomplish heading into his second year.

The Ravens have a new offensive scheme with coordinator Greg Roman, who said early in the offseason the offense would be tailored to Jackson's skill set as a dual-threat quarterback.

But Jackson took it upon himself to improve by working out with his receivers in Florida during the offseason and focusing on fundamentals, footwork and mechanics.

So, what's the early assessment with the first week of organized team activities, which involved three days of on-field work, in the books? By all accounts, Jackson appears improved and more than held his own by completing well-placed passes throughout the on-field session.

The signal-caller, though, provided a blunt critique on his three-day performance and knows he can do better.

"I'd say my first day, I sucked," Jackson told reporters Thursday, via the Ravens' official website. "Second day, I did better. ... Today was alright, but it could have been better. I always try and be perfect in practice. It was alright for the first week."

Jackson's desire to adjust his throwing mechanics currently involves spending time in the film room watching himself.

He told reporters that he has spotted some good, such as his hip firing like the coaching staff prefers, but he also identified an issue with how the ball still tends to wobble when it leaves his hands.

Remaining critical of what he's seen, Jackson provided a solution on what he needs to do in order to throw a tighter spiral.

"I would say my hand placement," Jackson said. "I feel like my hand will be a little too high on the football sometimes and that will make the ball go out of whack sometimes. A lot, not sometimes, a lot."

Meanwhile, Jackson's honest evaluation on where he stands now shouldn't cause alarm.

It is May, after all. And the Ravens still have seven days of OTAs remaining followed by a three-day mandatory minicamp from June 11-13 before training camps kick off in late July.

The good news is Jackson has identified what he must improve as he adjusts to a new offensive scheme with a desire to become a well-rounded quarterback.

"I want to focus on everything," Jackson said. "I don't feel like I have everything down pat. I'm not really confident in just saying, 'Oh, yeah, I'm good at this and I'm bad at that.' I'm bad at everything right now where we should be."


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001031865/article/ravens-qb-lamar-jackson-critical-of-his-throwing

[Oh wow]

I think the difference between Jackson and these other QB’s mentioned is his desire to work on his game.

Vick admitted he was lazy and didn’t put in work. RG3 shocked me because I thought his high IQ off the field would translate on the field but that guy is an idiot.

Any guy who gets a tattoo of his GF on his arm while still married to his pregnant wife is plain old dumb.

[Northern_Blitz]

Here we are; a year later............

From the Huddle this morning:

amar Jackson - QB - Baltimore Ravens
Posted 5/24/19 7:03am ET
Baltimore Ravens QB Lamar Jackson struggled with his accuracy in organized team activities, and he especially had trouble in the red zone. Jackson showed increased velocity, but several of his passes wobbled through the air. Jackson has impressed with his work in the team's conditioning program this offseason.

Huddle Up: Jackson has tremendous upside due to his legs, but he's a work in progress through the air. The silver lining is he appears to be a hard worker, which provides hope for future development.

I thought I also heard that Ben threw 2 picks on day 1 of OTAs. Hope that isn't an indication of the regular season.

[Steel Maniac]

I thought I also heard that Ben threw 2 picks on day 1 of OTAs. Hope that isn't an indication of the regular season.

Ben is a Hall of Fame, proven commodity. No one has any worries about what Ben can or will do. LOL

[RuthlessBurgher]

I thought I also heard that Ben threw 2 picks on day 1 of OTAs. Hope that isn't an indication of the regular season.

That means our defense actually intercepted the ball twice on day 1 of OTAs. I hope THAT is an indication of the regular season. ;)

[Oh wow]

Ben is a Hall of Fame, proven commodity. No one has any worries about what Ben can or will do. LOL

Lmao. This isn’t true at all.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

what's not true about it?

[Northern_Blitz]

That means our defense actually intercepted the ball twice on day 1 of OTAs. I hope THAT is an indication of the regular season. ;)

Alex K at the Depot charts picks in camp.

Last year we had the most ever.

Turned out it was more about QB play than DB play.

[hawaiiansteel]

Alex K at the Depot charts picks in camp.

Last year we had the most ever.

Turned out it was more about QB play than DB play.

Ben was just getting ready for the regular season ;)

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben was just getting ready for the regular season ;)

FWIW, my guess is that lots of those picks came from the other 2 QBs as well. They have also shown a penchant for throwing picks in the pre-season.

My overall point was more that we probably shouldn't read too much into results from football in shorts vs. Ben and our QBs throw lots of picks.

I think Ben's pick rate was about league average last year. Although we'd maybe hope for better from a QB in the discussion for elite status, he's a high risk player. Sometimes that gives great results, and other times we get stupid picks in the red zone.

He's not perfect, but he's certainly the best we've had since TB and maybe the best we've ever had.

[Oh wow]

FWIW, my guess is that lots of those picks came from the other 2 QBs as well. They have also shown a penchant for throwing picks in the pre-season.

My overall point was more that we probably shouldn't read too much into results from football in shorts vs. Ben and our QBs throw lots of picks.

I think Ben's pick rate was about league average last year. Although we'd maybe hope for better from a QB in the discussion for elite status, he's a high risk player. Sometimes that gives great results, and other times we get stupid picks in the red zone.

He's not perfect, but he's certainly the best we've had since TB and maybe the best we've ever had.

I think the timing of the picks is more important than the rate.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think the timing of the picks is more important than the rate.

I think if you have a higher rate, you'll throw more picks at bad times (not that there's ever a good time to turn the ball over).

[Buzz]

Alex K at the Depot charts picks in camp.

Last year we had the most ever.

Turned out it was more about QB play than DB play.

Yep, we've heard this chorus before. I'll get excited about the DBs getting turnovers when I see it in the games that count.

[Oh wow]

what's not true about it?

That we don’t have to worry about Ben. His play in the road is something to worry about.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Ben will be one of the best, if not the best player on the team as he has been since the day he was drafted

just because you have an irrational hatred of him won't change that no matter how bad you want it to be different

it's really kind of pathetic at this point

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben will be one of the best, if not the best player on the team as he has been since the day he was drafted

just because you have an irrational hatred of him won't change that no matter how bad you want it to be different

it's really kind of pathetic at this point

I agree that Ben will be the best player on the team. But that's also the expectation.

He will likely make some plays that lead to us winning games we should have lost.

And he'll likely have a few brain farts that lead to us losing games we should have won.

That's who he's always been. We just have to hope that he continues to make more game winning plays than game losing ones. If he plays long enough, the ratio will flip (see: Favre, Brett). FWIW, I don't think he's at that point yet.

[Oh wow]

Ben will be one of the best, if not the best player on the team as he has been since the day he was drafted

just because you have an irrational hatred of him won't change that no matter how bad you want it to be different

it's really kind of pathetic at this point

Lmao. Of course he is one of the best on our team. He is the franchise QB and is paid handsomely.

What does any of that have to do with being concerned about how he plays, especially now that we know we are without our 2 best offensive weapons over the years?

[Oh wow]

I agree that Ben will be the best player on the team. But that's also the expectation.

He will likely make some plays that lead to us winning games we should have lost.

And he'll likely have a few brain farts that lead to us losing games we should have won.

That's who he's always been. We just have to hope that he continues to make more game winning plays than game losing ones. If he plays long enough, the ratio will flip (see: Favre, Brett). FWIW, I don't think he's at that point yet.


Basically. Over the last few years one of the things we say on here is “which Ben will show up?”

I guess anyone who uses the term “Ugly Ben”
has irrational hatred for him.

[Captain Lemming]

Lmao. Of course he is one of the best on our team. He is the franchise QB and is paid handsomely.

What does any of that have to do with being concerned about how he plays, especially now that we know we are without our 2 best offensive weapons over the years?

He was fine without them before.

[Oh wow]

He was fine without them before.

That was a long time ago when we had veteran leadership on D who were older than Ben.

It’s fine if you guys aren’t worried but I’m good over here.