PDA

View Full Version : Timmons to be released



steeler_george
02-23-2018, 06:54 AM
I would be intrested in bringing him back on a friendly deal. But what can we expect of 2018 Timmons? Right now, he is better than what we have to pair with Williams, but not the solution. I would like to bring him in for depth and competition with Williams. We still need faster, younger talent at ILB.

Northern_Blitz
02-23-2018, 08:17 AM
I think that he would be great depth. I'd like to bring him back, but not with the intention of having him start (unless he can beat out Vance)

The Man of Steel
02-23-2018, 08:18 AM
I think that he would be great depth. I'd like to bring him back, but not with the intention of having him start (unless he can beat out Vance)
Vance McDonald?

feltdizz
02-23-2018, 08:34 AM
Vance McDonald?
Not sure if it’s a typo but I have seen Vince Williams called Vance on here a few times.

phillyesq
02-23-2018, 10:17 AM
If we are going to look at a veteran ILB on a league minimum contract, I'd prefer Timmons to Sean Spence.

I think Timmons would be ok as a stop gap starter, but I think it's really imperative that the Steelers improve their speed at ILB. Timmons and Vince together are not a fast enough combo. The difficulty with Timmons is that he is not likely to play special teams at this point in his career.

Steel Maniac
02-23-2018, 10:56 AM
Well, Timmons got his big payday that he wanted so badly from the Dolphins. LOL.

Now maybe he'll come back home and mentor and be a platoon guy. Who knows.

Northern_Blitz
02-23-2018, 11:32 AM
Not sure if it’s a typo but I have seen Vince Williams called Vance on here a few times.

Vince is who I meant. I don't think Timmons will start (or be a back up) for us at TE. Sorry for the brain fart.

RuthlessBurgher
02-23-2018, 11:41 AM
Not sure if it’s a typo but I have seen Vince Williams called Vance on here a few times.

I've seen him called Bince here more often. Pretty soon, maybe we'll start seeing him called Bance. ;)

steeler_george
02-23-2018, 11:55 AM
I've seen him called Bince here more often. Pretty soon, maybe we'll start seeing him called Bance. ;)

I crack every time, I read or hear himself to that Bince so he can be a killer "B" too!

NorthCoast
02-23-2018, 01:25 PM
Not on board with Timmons return. His PT was down last season for a reason. He might still be a better tackler than Spence but he is sloooow. Age has caught up. Prefer the promise of an unknown at this point.

Starlifter
02-23-2018, 01:36 PM
once you break up, you can really never go back. it never works out. Steelers moved on from LT for a reason. He was a great draft pick and a solid player for years - but his time is past. I don't think he's the solution inside.

RuthlessBurgher
02-23-2018, 02:58 PM
once you break up, you can really never go back. it never works out.

James Harrison, William Gay, Larry Foote, Willie Williams, Matt Spaeth, Bryant McFadden...

phillyesq
02-23-2018, 03:45 PM
James Harrison, William Gay, Larry Foote, Willie Williams, Matt Spaeth, Bryant McFadden...

Unfortunately, I could see Timmons working out like Harrison. If Timmons didn't start (and hopefully, he wouldn't), I could see it being hard for him to get a hat since I don't think he'll be covering kicks.

pittpete
02-23-2018, 07:12 PM
Vet min. you bring him back....No brainer

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-23-2018, 07:51 PM
Every 2-bit rookie or washed up vet QB is going to look like Joe Montana when they throw crossing patterns against us. Timmons was slowing down a *lot* two years ago when he was with us. If the best we got in the middle is him, we're hosed. All IMO of course!

pittpete
02-23-2018, 08:08 PM
Yes he looked horrible when he went back vs. the Giants and picked the ball off near the goal line.:tt2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_KMPH0WkIs
He's not brought back to be the starter, but to push the others and create competition.

Some of you act like he's 40 years old...
I'd bet half of you don't know how old he is without looking it up...

Captain Lemming
02-23-2018, 08:26 PM
Unfortunately, I could see Timmons working out like Harrison. If Timmons didn't start (and hopefully, he wouldn't), I could see it being hard for him to get a hat since I don't think he'll be covering kicks.

Harrison gave us 3 solid seasons, two of which he lead the team in sacks despite opening every season as a babkup.

Captain Lemming
02-23-2018, 08:46 PM
Every 2-bit rookie or washed up vet QB is going to look like Joe Montana when they throw crossing patterns against us. Timmons was slowing down a *lot* two years ago when he was with us. If the best we got in the middle is him, we're hosed. All IMO of course!

Our biggest need at ilber is not letting guys tear off huge runs against up.

We had that problem ever WITH Shazier. Shazier makes impressive "splash" tackles and is better in coverage (Timmons was never "bad" in coverage).

But while Timmons won't make that behind the line hit on a runner just as he gets the ball.

But Timmons doesn't let guys escape near as much as Shazier.

Fyi, this was Timmons numbers during the playoffs early 2017 in case you guys have forgotten. Lead the league in postseason tackles:

Defensive Leaders 2017

Total Tackles
1 Lawrence Timmons PIT 29
2 Keanu Neal ATL 28
3 Logan Ryan NE 22
4 James Harrison PIT 20
4 Jake Ryan GB 20
4 Deion Jones ATL 20
7 Robert Alford ATL 19

NorthCoast
02-23-2018, 09:17 PM
Yes he looked horrible when he went back vs. the Giants and picked the ball off near the goal line.:tt2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_KMPH0WkIs
He's not brought back to be the starter, but to push the others and create competition.

Some of you act like he's 40 years old...
I'd bet half of you don't know how old he is without looking it up...He isn't legit competition. Steelers need to upgrade, not maintain status quo.

Slapstick
02-23-2018, 09:35 PM
Status quo is Sean Spence...Timmons would be a tremendous upgrade over Spence...

feltdizz
02-23-2018, 10:05 PM
I would prefer Timmons over Spence. Bring him back on the cheap.

Captain Lemming
02-23-2018, 11:40 PM
Status quo is Sean Spence...Timmons would be a tremendous upgrade over Spence...

Exactly!
In our last playoff run with Timmons, his last games as a Steeler, "way back" in 2017 we allowed:
-52 to the Fins (Ajayi was 16 for 33....2ypc)
-61 to the Chiefs
-Pats had 57 yards in 27 carries.....less than 2 ypc

Timmons led not just the "team" but the "league" in playoff tackles....on a team that allowed about 2 yards a carry thoughout the playoffs.
He had considerably more tackles than Shazier.

IF we don't get a free agent but draft a rookie, I absolutely would want Timmons to ease the transition.

pittpete
02-23-2018, 11:57 PM
Timmons had more passes defended than Mike Mitchell last season....LOL

Ernie
02-24-2018, 07:10 AM
Exactly!
In our last playoff run with Timmons, his last games as a Steeler, "way back" in 2017 we allowed:
-52 to the Fins (Ajayi was 16 for 33....2ypc)
-61 to the Chiefs
-Pats had 57 yards in 27 carries.....less than 2 ypc

Timmons led not just the "team" but the "league" in playoff tackles....on a team that allowed about 2 yards a carry thoughout the playoffs.
He had considerably more tackles than Shazier.
IF we don't get a free agent but draft a rookie, I absolutely would want Timmons to ease the transition.

You are absolutely right, Captain. People tend to forget that Timmons played some of the best football of his career down the stretch last year leading up to and including our playoff run.

steeler_george
02-24-2018, 08:21 AM
All right, you football nerds out there, who would you rather have based on last years performances:

Timmons
Avery Williams from Ten.
Zach Brown
D. Davis from Jets

Slapstick
02-24-2018, 08:37 AM
Based strictly on performance? Probably Brown...

Considering how much the team is likely to spend, our team’s need, and how well the player will fit? Timmons...

Ernie
02-24-2018, 08:43 AM
Brown signed with a Skins last year for a really reasonable deal. We should have signed him then!

steeler_george
02-24-2018, 09:52 AM
From what I am reading from so called experts, ( I can't remeber seeing any of these players play) that they are all run-stopping ILb, and above average tacklers. With the exception of Zach Brown who can cover.

Maybe we are going to go in FA for competition/depth for Williams, and we are going to draft our future ILB to pair with the FA/Williams. Worst case senerio, we have a capable starter at ILB.

Thoughtson the players mentioned:

Timmons, he knows what is expected of him (Steeler Culture, knows the D. can sign Cap friendly deal. At worst better than what we have now, and depth equal to Bance Williams.

Avery Williams, he sounds like he can be a tackling machine, stout against the run upgrade over Bance Williams, and adds stability in the future with Bance hitting free agency in 2019.

Zach Brown, we should of signed him last year, we rolled the dice with depth and got bite. I think he would fit in well with Bance, but we still need depth.

Slapstick
02-24-2018, 10:43 AM
Should we have signed Brown last year? With 20/20 hindsight, knowing that Shazier may never again play, then yes...

But, if we had signed Brown, would we still have been able to sign Haden? I don’t think so...

Ernie
02-24-2018, 11:04 AM
Should we have signed Brown last year? With 20/20 hindsight, knowing that Shazier may never again play, then yes...

But, if we had signed Brown, would we still have been able to sign Haden? I don’t think so...

The Haden signing was a "Fluke" if you look at our history. The Brown signing would have taken place months prior. Sensabaugh was our supposed answer for Cockrell's departure. Haden just sort of fell in to our lap. With that being said, I am one of Haden's biggest fans, and very happy we signed him.

As for Shazier, the lack of depth at ILB was painfully obvious,.... and should have been more adequately addressed. Like you said, hindsight is 20/20.

Slapstick
02-24-2018, 11:21 AM
I agree that the Haden signing was a fluke...but, would we have had the cap wherewithal to do it if we had signed Brown?

Buzz
02-24-2018, 12:19 PM
I would prefer Timmons over Spence. Bring him back on the cheap.
Timmons is not able to play the Mack position any longer. He gave it up to Shazier when he was here before, I don't think he's gotten faster since he left. Timmons and V. Williams would be a pairing that opponents would easily exploit, IMO.

feltdizz
02-24-2018, 12:29 PM
Timmons is not able to play the Mack position any longer. He gave it up to Shazier when he was here before, I don't think he's gotten faster since he left. Timmons and V. Williams would be a pairing that opponents would easily exploit, IMO.

Depth. I expect us to draft an ILB but I would prefer Timmons as a back up over Spence.

Buzz
02-24-2018, 02:31 PM
Depth. I expect us to draft an ILB but I would prefer Timmons as a back up over Spence.They will be playing different positions. Timmons would be fine as a backup at the Buck position (probably would be OK as a starter there, but we have V. Williams). At this point in his career, I don't think Timmons would be any better than Spence at the Mack, and Spence would be cheaper. What we need is a really good starting option at the Mack. Unless Shazier makes a miraculous recovery, we don't have that on the roster right now.

Slapstick
02-24-2018, 02:51 PM
I absolutely think that Timmons would be a far superior starter at the Mack than Spence. I think Vince Williams would be a superior starter at the Mack than Spence. Last season, Williams started three games when Shazier was inactive due to injury. In those three starts, playing Mack next to Timmons as the Buck, VW had 25 tackles and 2 sacks...that was why they let Timmons go to Miami...VW rewarded the Steelers with 68 tackles and 8 sacks...

Neither of them are Shazier, but they are both definitely an upgrade over Spence...

Buzz
02-24-2018, 04:10 PM
I absolutely think that Timmons would be a far superior starter at the Mack than Spence. I think Vince Williams would be a superior starter at the Mack than Spence. Last season, Williams started three games when Shazier was inactive due to injury. In those three starts, playing Mack next to Timmons as the Buck, VW had 25 tackles and 2 sacks...that was why they let Timmons go to Miami...VW rewarded the Steelers with 68 tackles and 8 sacks...

Neither of them are Shazier, but they are both definitely an upgrade over Spence...
I respect your opinion but, again, what we really need is a true starting-caliber, sideline-to-sideline, good-in-coverage player at the Mack. That's how Butler's defense is now designed to work, and adding Timmons doesn't solve that. He'd already lost a step in coverage, and teams were exploiting that his last season here. What our D has (barring the return of Shazier) is one not-so-great Mack (Spence), and a wannabe (Fort). I, too, would like an upgrade over Spence. Jatavis Brown would be a much better option than Timmons--he's younger, faster, and and I think he would come fairly cheap. I'd also look for a Mack early on in the draft.

Slapstick
02-24-2018, 08:00 PM
Spence won’t even be on the roster...he is a UFA...

Ernie
02-24-2018, 11:36 PM
I agree that the Haden signing was a fluke...but, would we have had the cap wherewithal to do it if we had signed Brown?

Hard to tell. I'm thinking Brown was signed for quite a bit less than what Timmons signed for in MIA. At least a million or so per year anyways. We would have had to make a tough decision or two to make it happen (or have a chance).

Starlifter
02-25-2018, 09:30 AM
James Harrison, William Gay, Larry Foote, Willie Williams, Matt Spaeth, Bryant McFadden...

I can't argue with those names, but other than James - weren't the other guys released early in their careers and still had lots of miles left when we brought them back? LT is clearly at the backside of his career. I think JH is a freak and a unique circumstance. I suppose if the steelers think THIS year is their best chance for a Lombardi with this group and they're looking for a short term fix to plug a hole - then maybe. But I'm just not excited about bringing him back if that's what they decide.

pittpete
02-25-2018, 01:22 PM
Timmons is only 31.....Cmon guys

Buzz
02-25-2018, 06:39 PM
Timmons is only 31.....Cmon guys31, but he's lost a step, and I don't think he gets it back. And that's critical if he's going to play the Mack in this D.

Slapstick
02-25-2018, 06:41 PM
Again, he wouldn’t have to play Mack. Williams can play Mack and do so at a high level playing next to Timmons.

Buzz
02-25-2018, 10:57 PM
Again, he wouldn’t have to play Mack. Williams can play Mack and do so at a high level playing next to Timmons.Williams is not well suited for the Mack. Could he play the position? Yes. Could he play it at the level we'd need him to play it in order to have a top-flight defense? No. Again, opponents would quickly figure out they could exploit the deficiencies such a lineup would present.

Buzz
02-25-2018, 11:03 PM
A Lawrence Timmons Reunion Wouldn't Fix Steelers Problems
By Alex Kozora February 24, 2018 at 09:30 am

I’m not going to rule out the possibility of a Lawrence Timmons reunion. We’ve seen these things before in Pittsburgh. William Gay and Bryant McFadden going elsewhere before returning comes to mind. But should Timmons return? That’s a much easier answer.

No way.

Yes, Timmons knows the defense. Yes, he would bring a leadership and communication element the front seven sorely lacks. Both would be welcomed additions.

What isn’t welcomed is how he would fit into the defense. As far as I can tell, there isn’t one.

Want him to start? Sure, there’s an inside linebacker spot open with Ryan Shazier’s future in question. But that isn’t where Timmons ended his career in Pittsburgh and Shazier’s Mack linebacker spot isn’t ideal for a 32 year old on the decline. Yesterday, we covered some of the things that made Shazier, well, Shazier. The ability to carry out any assignment on defense, to run with WRs and TEs down the seam, to come across the field to clean up missed tackles or chase down screens. Someone you have complete trust with on any down, any situation, any role.

Timmons didn’t fit that role at the end of his Steelers’ career. I promise that didn’t improve after a failed 2017 in South Beach. Though far from a terrible athlete, if he circled back, he’s return as the Buck linebacker. A spot currently held by Vince Williams, who I’d argue is now better than Timmons, and even if you disagree, benching Williams still means you gotta replace Shazier.

To fix the car’s brakes, you changed the tires. Yeah, you did something, but that doesn’t actually solve anything.

You could argue Timmons would sign as pure depth. No one wants to see the team scramble and sign Sean Spence off the street again. But even then, it’s hard to find the fit. Hard to see him playing special teams without that on his resume. In Miami, he saw just six snaps and was limited in his final years as a Steeler. The backup #3 ILB has to be not only a capable special teamer but a core special teamer, just in the way Tyler Matakevich is. Just in the way VW was before ascending into the top role.

And in reality, whether you disagree or not, the team is high on Matakevich. He was the clear backup at both spots before tearing his shoulder. And when asked about the position, Kevin Colbert was quick to mention his name. A backup isn’t needed. A slam-dunk starter is. Timmons ain’t that guy. Not anymore.

Even if you think I’m wrong about the depth, you can find someone else who can provide that and immediate special teams value. For the starting role, I have three free agents in mind to take that spot. You’ll see that list on Monday.

Signing Timmons sounds good on paper. But lay out a plan for who you use him and it’s a much tougher sell. He’d essentially be an insurance policy for Williams. That’s not what the team needs at the position. All he is a signing for the sake of a signing.


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/lawrence-timmons-reunion-wouldnt-fix-steelers-problems/

pittpete
02-26-2018, 12:31 AM
I don't believe anyone is petitioning to bring Timmons back to pay him to be a starter.
If he came back at vet minimum or a super cap friendly deal to push any draft picks i'm all for it.
He did a decent job in Miami and he offers more than Spence or Moats.

Chadman
02-26-2018, 12:55 AM
If he came back, I’d probably be trying to get him to shed some body mass. He started at 225lbs for the Steelers. I think he bulked to 255lbs in the end. Somewhere between 230-240lbs, he might get some of that quickness back. Worked for James Farrior....extended his career too.

Chadman
02-26-2018, 01:09 AM
Also, and this is now starting to sound like I’m a “Timmons homer” (which is possible, as he was the guy I wanted the Steelers to draft anyway), but this team needs leaders that don’t cause locker room distractions. In all his time in Pittsburgh, I can never remember Timmons putting a foot wrong off the field. He’s more the quiet type, but compared to Mike Mitchell’s ‘leadership’, I know who I’d prefer the younger players to look up to.

Oviedo
02-26-2018, 09:30 AM
He did a decent job in Miami and he offers more than Spence or Moats.

This is very true and I agree that if he sheds some weight some of the quickness would come back

feltdizz
02-26-2018, 09:50 AM
Here is the thing about Timmons. He is disciplined and knows this defense. He doesn’t need to be lightning fast. Guys like him play smart and know where to be to finish plays.

I think he would be a fine addition and would add much needed depth at the ILB position.

Hipefully we find a starter in FA or the draft but in the mean time, he would be great insurance and should be relatively cheap.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-26-2018, 10:05 AM
The coaches will see if he's fast enough. We were getting burned 2 years ago because he was slowing down so much he couldn't keep up with receivers. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he can still do that to an acceptable degree. Leadership is great, but you still need to cover the crossing pattern.

Also, the elephant in the room ... didn't he just quit and disappear on the Dolphins for a day or two?

Northern_Blitz
02-26-2018, 10:27 AM
Also, and this is now starting to sound like I’m a “Timmons homer” (which is possible, as he was the guy I wanted the Steelers to draft anyway), but this team needs leaders that don’t cause locker room distractions. In all his time in Pittsburgh, I can never remember Timmons putting a foot wrong off the field. He’s more the quiet type, but compared to Mike Mitchell’s ‘leadership’, I know who I’d prefer the younger players to look up to.

If all we had was his experience with the Steelers, I'd agree with this.

But, he did go AWOL on the Dolphins last season. So, I'm not sure he's the guy to come in and lead the locker room or anything. Honestly, I just hope that he's OK after the whole Miami thing.

Oviedo
02-26-2018, 10:33 AM
The coaches will see if he's fast enough. We were getting burned 2 years ago because he was slowing down so much he couldn't keep up with receivers.

Timmons was good at keeping up with most of the TEs and RBs he was asked to cover. Watched some Miami games this season and he didn't embarrass himself.

The reality is 90% of the Inside LBs not named Shazier can't keep up with the best TEs or receiving RBs

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 11:07 AM
True...................

RuthlessBurgher
02-26-2018, 11:16 AM
Also, the elephant in the room ... didn't he just quit and disappear on the Dolphins for a day or two?

When he suddenly left the Dolphins last season, it was to come back to Pittsburgh. I think he realized he made a mistake leaving this team to take the money in South Beach, and just wanted to come home again. He was here when Blount pouted his way back to New England, so maybe he thought he'd try something similar to engineer a path back to the Burgh again...

Slapstick
02-26-2018, 11:20 AM
When he suddenly left the Dolphins last season, it was to come back to Pittsburgh. I think he realized he made a mistake leaving this team to take the money in South Beach, and just wanted to come home again. He was here when Blount pouted his way back to New England, so maybe he thought he'd try something similar to engineer a path back to the Burgh again...

Also, it was during the hurricane. He wanted to get the hell out of Miami before the storm and get back with his family, which was still in Pittsburgh, IIRC.

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 11:21 AM
When he suddenly left the Dolphins last season, it was to come back to Pittsburgh. I think he realized he made a mistake leaving this team to take the money in South Beach, and just wanted to come home again. He was here when Blount pouted his way back to New England, so maybe he thought he'd try something similar to engineer a path back to the Burgh again...

That thought crossed my mind when that happens but I thought it was a little far fetched. But now that you've also said it, maybe not. If Timmons wants to come home, I'd take him in place of Williams in a heartbeat. Provided he can still play. He got his big payday so now come back and help stabilize our LB corps.

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 11:22 AM
Also, it was during the hurricane. He wanted to get the hell out of Miami before the storm and get back with his family, which was still in Pittsburgh, IIRC.

He never had Hurricane issues in Pitt. LOL

RuthlessBurgher
02-26-2018, 11:29 AM
What about signing Timmons to be a strongside backer in a 4-3 rather than a mack or buck inside backer in a 3-4?

Does it seem like this personnel might be more suited to have Vince as the MLB with Timmons as the SLB and Watt as the WLB with Hargrave playing 1-technique DT, Tuitt playing 3-technique DT, and Dupree joining Heyward as a full-time DE with his hand in the dirt?

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 11:36 AM
What about signing Timmons to be a strongside backer in a 4-3 rather than a mack or buck inside backer in a 3-4?

Does it seem like this personnel might be more suited to have Vince as the MLB with Timmons as the SLB and Watt as the WLB with Hargrave playing 1-technique DT, Tuitt playing 3-technique DT, and Dupree joining Heyward as a full-time DE with his hand in the dirt?

I've been saying that for about two years but people dismiss the idea of going 4-3. Because it's been hard as hell for us to get the level of linebacking we want to run a 3-4 ..and have quality depth too? But Tomlin has claimed this is HIS defense and this is what he wants to do. Fine.

But I think us going 4-3 and shaking things up might be good for the defense. Our opponents scouting report on our defense hasn't changed in over a decade.

Slapstick
02-26-2018, 11:45 AM
Usually with a 4-3, you need fast, rangy linebackers to make it work...

I don’t think that Timmons, Williams, and Watt are fast enough as a group...

RuthlessBurgher
02-26-2018, 11:53 AM
The 3-4 vs. 4-3 debate isn't quite as important now as it was a decade or more ago, since we are using nickel or dime personnel more than half the time anyway.

feltdizz
02-26-2018, 12:23 PM
If all we had was his experience with the Steelers, I'd agree with this.

But, he did go AWOL on the Dolphins last season. So, I'm not sure he's the guy to come in and lead the locker room or anything. Honestly, I just hope that he's OK after the whole Miami thing.

He went AWOL and came back to Pittsburgh.

That works in his favor with me. LOL.

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 12:23 PM
The 3-4 vs. 4-3 debate isn't quite as important now as it was a decade or more ago, since we are using nickel or dime personnel more than half the time anyway.

I agree with that but still, we are struggling finding linebackers who can play. Period JJ was a bust and as much as I like Dupree's potential, I've got to see it. I'm thinking that Dupree doesn't have the mental make up to be a quality LB. He has the physical tools thou.

Slapstick
02-26-2018, 12:58 PM
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-opinions-reactions-news-updates/2018/2/26/17048090/lawrence-timmons-rejoining-the-steelers-would-solve-some-problems-at-inside-linebacker-ryan-shazier

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 01:26 PM
Thanks Slap

pittpete
02-26-2018, 03:50 PM
Don't think VW could be a 4-3 MLB in today's defenses..

pittpete
02-26-2018, 03:54 PM
Remember Steelers wanted to keep Timmons but he decided on taking the $$$$$$.

Steel Maniac
02-26-2018, 04:11 PM
Well, he got the big payday. Now come home and all will be forgiven.

feltdizz
02-26-2018, 04:39 PM
Remember Steelers wanted to keep Timmons but he decided on taking the $$$$$$.

Its a business.

I get it.

but I guess Timmons found out sometimes it’s more than business.

pittpete
02-26-2018, 10:00 PM
Point was, the Steelers were still interested but couldn't match the $$$$ the fins gave him.
I don't believe they thought he was done.

Northern_Blitz
02-27-2018, 05:09 AM
Point was, the Steelers were still interested but couldn't match the $$$$ the fins gave him.
I don't believe they thought he was done.

I don't think he's done either. I think he can compete for the Buck ILB. But, we don't have anyone on the team who's a good option at the Mack. The general Steeler's philosophy is to get at least a serviceable vet UFA as a starter and then draft a guy. I hope that we do that AND sign Timmons. I think that Timmons will be cheap given that he quit on his team last season.

Then, Timmons or Williams starts at Buck. Incomming UFA penciled in at starter. Top 1-3 rd pick also at ILB. Then, we've hopefully got 4 guys that can play and we know that Timmons and Williams can probably serve as backups at the Mack.

I think that the potential downside of signing Timmons is that he's probably not playing ST if he doesn't start. I think that this was one of the reasons that the team let Harrison go.

Slapstick
02-27-2018, 06:49 AM
I think it is mischaracterizing it a bit to say Timmons quit on his team...

Is it quitting if, AFTER you quit, you finish 3rd in tackles?

Northern_Blitz
02-27-2018, 07:36 AM
I think it is mischaracterizing it a bit to say Timmons quit on his team...

Is it quitting if, AFTER you quit, you finish 3rd in tackles?

He refused to play a game by physically leaving the team without telling them. That's pretty close close to the literal definition of quitting.

The big difference is that they refused to cut him (despite the fact that it seems to be what he wanted). Then, he continued to perform after they let him stay on the team (which is nice).

Ultimately, his actions last season make him more of a liability than another player. I think it's reasonable to ask if we need more potential drama in the locker room.

Given his history with the team, I'd personally give him a chance in Pittsburgh if he was willing to sign a reasonably low contract. But, I think there's added risk with Timmons.

Steel Maniac
02-27-2018, 10:00 AM
He refused to play a game by physically leaving the team without telling them. That's pretty close close to the literal definition of quitting.

The big difference is that they refused to cut him (despite the fact that it seems to be what he wanted). Then, he continued to perform after they let him stay on the team (which is nice).

Ultimately, his actions last season make him more of a liability than another player. I think it's reasonable to ask if we need more potential drama in the locker room.

Given his history with the team, I'd personally give him a chance in Pittsburgh if he was willing to sign a reasonably low contract. But, I think there's added risk with Timmons.

Looking at it from the Dolphins side, it looks like he came there to get the big up front cash..... and then quit. Because it seems like he came to steal money and then go back to Pittsburgh. LOL.

Slapstick
02-27-2018, 10:02 AM
Except, when you knowingly void your guarantees by not reporting, it kind of makes it seem like it wasn’t about money.

feltdizz
02-27-2018, 10:05 AM
Except, when you knowingly void your guarantees by not reporting, it kind of makes it seem like it wasn’t about money.

Yes. If it was about the money he would’ve mailed it in like Mike Wallace.

Timmons was homesick or going through something at the time and needed to be in a familiar place.

I definitely could see other teams being worried or acoiding him but I think the Steelers probably told him to honor his contract and get his ass back to Miami.

Steel Maniac
02-27-2018, 10:09 AM
Except, when you knowingly void your guarantees by not reporting, it kind of makes it seem like it wasn’t about money.

He voided his guarantees? Well then it was obvious he was homesick then. Well, he can come back then as long as he can upgrade over Williams.

williar
02-27-2018, 11:17 AM
After giving this some thought I think it would beneficial to resign Timmons. Revisiting his history here as a Steeler it was all positive. He was always a stand-up guy! a quiet leader, consistent, and made plays when you needed them. I don't fear he would go, rogue, like JH. Timmons was always a team player and I think he would have no problem accepting a lesser/mentoring type of role if need be.

Oviedo
02-27-2018, 11:22 AM
After giving this some thought I think it would beneficial to resign Timmons. Revisiting his history here as a Steeler it was all positive. He was always a stand-up guy! a quiet leader, consistent, and made plays when you needed them. I don't fear he would go, rogue, like JH. Timmons was always a team player and I think he would have no problem accepting a lesser/mentoring type of role if need be.

I'd resign him. Resigning him doesn't guarantee him a roster spot but I bet he proves he is one of the top two ILBs on the team by a far margin.

Northern_Blitz
02-27-2018, 01:10 PM
I'd resign him. Resigning him doesn't guarantee him a roster spot but I bet he proves he is one of the top two ILBs on the team by a far margin.

Yep and last year probably means that we'll be able to sign him on the cheap (because the perceived risk is probably higher for other teams than it is for the Steelers).

But, if the Steelers do bring him back (and even if they don't) I hope that our new Assistant HC in charge of player relations (or whatever the title is) makes sure that he's got a good support system on the psychological side of things.

Slapstick
02-27-2018, 01:40 PM
Terry Cousin is the Coordinator of Player Engagement.

John Mitchell is the Assistant Head Coach.

Northern_Blitz
02-28-2018, 12:07 PM
Terry Cousin is the Coordinator of Player Engagement.

John Mitchell is the Assistant Head Coach.

The article I read about Mitchell's new job said that his responsibilities include reaching out to former players to check on them and see if there is anything that the team can help them out with. I hope it's more than just lip service because I think these guys can really end up suffering after they leave the game.

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2018, 12:09 PM
With Mitchell, it's more than a title

Posted Feb 8, 2018

Bob Labriola

Steelers.com

It's an old title, but the job is one that was created with John Mitchell in mind.

So often in the past, it has been a ceremonial title. At one time, it was bestowed by an NFL team not wanting to lose an assistant coach in a lateral move that probably included a pay raise. Other times it was given to a position coach as recognition for years of faithful service, or sometimes as a way to alert the outside world that he was someone ready to take the next step up the coaching ladder.

Assistant head coach.

Kind of like being the Vice President without the direct line of succession. And in the NFL, the title usually was accompanied by a “slash,” with what follows the “slash” being the guy’s actual job.

For the past 11 years, John Mitchell has carried the assistant head coach title, and in the meantime he was doing what he had been doing for the Steelers since 1994, which was coaching the defensive line. But now, with the Steelers having hired Karl Dunbar to coach the defensive line, Mitchell will become the title he has carried since 2007. He will be Mike Tomlin’s assistant.

“It’s a unique position that requires unique skill-sets and relationships and time spent and understanding,” said Mike Tomlin. “And quite frankly, John Mitchell is the position. His unique service to this organization and the men who have played here, plus his understanding of this organization and its relationship to the community, plus how he can help these guys to grow and have a positive impact on the community all are important elements of this position. And it’s an important element of him being assigned to this position. I know the type of man John Mitchell is. I know he is going to take tremendous pride and detail and attack this new work, and I think it’s going to add value to our cause in some very tangible ways. But I also think there are going to be some great unintended positive consequences of him acting in this role.”

The origin of this job can be traced to college football, with a couple of examples of men currently doing this job being Bob Junko at Pitt and Woody McCorvey at Clemson. It’s usually a guy the head coach respects greatly, maybe a mentor at one time, and typically the assistant head coach is someone who has enough tenure and bonafides to be able to tell the head coach some hardcore truths.

Tomlin envisions Mitchell being a guy who will handle a variety of things, for example the day-to-day management of the staff when the head coach is on the road, either attending the Senior Bowl or the Scouting Combine or Pro Days, or handling Competition Committee business at the NFL Owners Meeting. Or during most of the month of April, when Tomlin spends all day every day in the draft room going over college prospects with the personnel department.

“During the critical first 90 days of each new season, I’m not (available),” said Tomlin. “We have to do a better job of managing and developing and training staff. He will oversee that in my absence.”

Mitchell also will assist Terry Cousin in the player development area, and his experience and contacts within the community will lessen the need for the head coach to have to deal with a lot of minutiae, such as involving himself in vouching for players in the process of buying a car or buying a house or other similar real-life issues. Mitchell and Cousin will form a mini-department designed to meet the needs of current players, and again, it will be Mitchell’s experience and contacts within the community making him the point man.

The assistant head coach also will be charged with adding value and structure to the team’s relationship with former players. Within this task will be the creation of a data base that will include everybody who played even a snap for the Steelers since Tomlin was hired in 2007, and this data base will allow for communication between the team and those players as well as allowing for the possibility of those players communicating with each other. The idea behind this is to allow the Steelers to be in a better position to assist them in their lives beyond their playing days. Connect the dots continually through a guy’s life, so to speak.

And finally, the assistant head coach will be directly involved in community relations as it relates to player participation, and he also will be charged with adding quality to the events that are already on the calendar, with the Rookie Dinner that’s held each year after the draft being just one example.

“We have to do a better job with former players,” said Tomlin. “We’re capable of doing a better job with current players, because the simpler we make their lives the more they’re going to be able to focus on football. John Mitchell has been a part of this community for a long time, so why would anybody on our football team buy a car, or look for a house, or try to buy insurance without stopping by John Mitchell’s office first?”

Now, they won’t.

http://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on/article-4/With-Mitchell-its-more-than-a-title/a9536c08-2d84-467a-8043-ad9fc9e3c937

Northern_Blitz
02-28-2018, 12:55 PM
Thanks Ruthless.

That was the article I was thinking about


The assistant head coach also will be charged with adding value and structure to the team’s relationship with former players. Within this task will be the creation of a data base that will include everybody who played even a snap for the Steelers since Tomlin was hired in 2007, and this data base will allow for communication between the team and those players as well as allowing for the possibility of those players communicating with each other. The idea behind this is to allow the Steelers to be in a better position to assist them in their lives beyond their playing days. Connect the dots continually through a guy’s life, so to speak.

NorthCoast
02-28-2018, 01:54 PM
The article I read about Mitchell's new job said that his responsibilities include reaching out to former players to check on them and see if there is anything that the team can help them out with. I hope it's more than just lip service because I think these guys can really end up suffering after they leave the game.
At the risk of sounding heartless I have to believe 99% of players are aware of the risks of the game. But the brashness of youth and the 'maybe I will beat the odds' thinking skews their judgment . They also see players playing into late 30s thinking it can't be THAT dangerous.while it gets the most publicity pro football is far from the most dangerous occupation out there. ... And the pay in these jobs is far less.

feltdizz
02-28-2018, 02:51 PM
At the risk of sounding heartless I have to believe 99% of players are aware of the risks of the game. But the brashness of youth and the 'maybe I will beat the odds' thinking skews their judgment . They also see players playing into late 30s thinking it can't be THAT dangerous.while it gets the most publicity pro football is far from the most dangerous occupation out there. ... And the pay in these jobs is far less.

Im jumping in blind but I don’t think suffering is primarily physical. I think it’s more so emotionally. I bet a lot of guys have no plans after football other than coaching or being on ESPN.

Guys are lookig for for a new rush, a way to make the same amount of money as they did with football which usually doesn’t materialize...

them you have these these guys who almost made it big, got injured or looked over and next thing you know you are at the club spending money you don’t have on girls who don’t even care that you were once in the league.

As far as the risk? C’mon.. these guys know. They have played all their lives and seen guys get carted off the field since HS. While I can see the initial wave of older players being mad because they were lied to.. they aren’t dumb. They know the risk but the reward is worth it for most of them. Football is a winning lottery ticket on a battlefield and most of these guys are going to run out to claim their ticket because regular life is scary as hell to these guys.

Construction workers, firemen, cops, machine operators... all have more fatalities every year than football.

williar
02-28-2018, 03:26 PM
Im jumping in blind but I don’t think suffering is primarily physical. I think it’s more so emotionally. I bet a lot of guys have no plans after football other than coaching or being on ESPN.

Guys are lookig for for a new rush, a way to make the same amount of money as they did with football which usually doesn’t materialize...

them you have these these guys who almost made it big, got injured or looked over and next thing you know you are at the club spending money you don’t have on girls who don’t even care that you were once in the league.

As far as the risk? C’mon.. these guys know. They have played all their lives and seen guys get carted off the field since HS. While I can see the initial wave of older players being mad because they were lied to.. they aren’t dumb. They know the risk but the reward is worth it for most of them. Football is a winning lottery ticket on a battlefield and most of these guys are going to run out to claim their ticket because regular life is scary as hell to these guys.

Construction workers, firemen, cops, machine operators... all have more fatalities every year than football. I agree with this right here! Also, some of these former, mostly older players didn't do themselves any favors by using steroids in its heyday when they were not illegal. I've talked to college players that I know, mostly relatives of mine who have had injuries of sorts, and they say they have absolutely, no hesitation about playing the game of football even all of the risk involved.

williar
02-28-2018, 03:32 PM
And let's be real - some folk just have emotional problems/mental or "issues" as we say, that make them do crazy stuff regardless of whether they took a hit to the head or not...

feltdizz
02-28-2018, 03:49 PM
I agree with this right here! Also, some of these former, mostly older players didn't do themselves any favors by using steroids in its heyday when they were not illegal. I've talked to college players that I know, mostly relatives of mine who have had injuries of sorts, and they say they have absolutely, no hesitation about playing the game of football even all of the risk involved.

Aliquippa is a football powerhouse in our area and I know a few guys who are close with players like Ty Law, Reno’s and Sean Gilbert. Those guys made tons of money and are living well.

Tony Dorsetts son played a few years in the league and is friends with all of them. He didn’t make big money but he still tries to live that life and is always getting loans from them and they know he isn’t going to able to pay them back. He can’t accept that it’s over.

Then another guy who was great in football and basketball never made it to the league and robbed a small bank in my town that we have never seen anyone use. He drove his gold BMW as te getaway car and drove from the bank back to his house.

Some of these guys cant be saved.

Do you really need 5 cars? Those things don’t hold their value unless you are Jay Leno buying cars that collectors crave.

williar
02-28-2018, 04:49 PM
I won't make light of any player who is seriously suffering effects as a result of playing football because I understand it is legitimate. However, I believe for many of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit it was indeed just a money grab and exploitation, which I probably would have done myself if I would have played.

To be fair, let's not overlook the many former NFL players who are out there living healthy, functional, productive lives away from the gridiron! They do exist!

NorthCoast
02-28-2018, 09:04 PM
I won't make light of any player who is seriously suffering effects as a result of playing football because I understand it is legitimate. However, I believe for many of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit it was indeed just a money grab and exploitation, which I probably would have done myself if I would have played.

To be fair, let's not overlook the many former NFL players who are out there living healthy, functional, productive lives away from the gridiron! They do exist!As with most 'news' these days it's the fringe guys (good or bad) that get the spotlight. Face it, 90% of 'normal people' live mundane, un-newsworthy lives. It's what keeps this country functioning but it's certainly isn't exciting enough to write a story about. It's another reason why I rarely spend time with Facebook.....

"Engineering Manager Works His Day"

"Yea. It was awesome. Got to work today, read through some emails from overseas plants. Then met with a few team members to review weekly progress. Went to a meeting on new medical benefits being rolled out. Then things really got rolling with the phone calls, got into a how-down with the Manufacturing manager complaining about new requirements for operators being put in place. Whew, talk about adrenaline rush... "

Captain Lemming
03-01-2018, 06:39 PM
"Yea. It was awesome. Got to work today, read through some emails from overseas plants. Then met with a few team members to review weekly progress. Went to a meeting on new medical benefits being rolled out. Then things really got rolling with the phone calls, got into a how-down with the Manufacturing manager complaining about new requirements for operators being put in place. Whew, talk about adrenaline rush... "

Forget prez tweets and school shootings.
FINALLY
Now THIS is the kind of news I crave.

Can we get daily updates? :)

NorthCoast
03-01-2018, 09:53 PM
Forget prez tweets and school shootings.
FINALLY
Now THIS is the kind of news I crave.

Can we get daily updates? :)LOL... can't do it..... it would set the internet on fire.

RuthlessBurgher
03-12-2018, 02:09 PM
Dolphins releasing Lawrence Timmons

Posted by Darin Gantt on March 12, 2018, 1:49 PM EDT

The Dolphins made one of the day’s biggest waves by releasing Ndamukong Suh.

This one was far more of the #asexpected variety.

According to Adam Schefter of ESPN.com, the Dolphins have released linebacker Lawrence Timmons.

Frankly, this one seemed apparent from the time he went AWOL last year and was suspended a game, but having signed him to a two-year deal, they apparently felt compelled to keep playing him. The former Steelers regular ended up starting 14 games for the Dolphins.

His release saves $5.4 million in salary cap room, room they’ll need to absorb the much larger hit they’re taking by parting ways with Suh.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/12/dolphins-releasing-lawrence-timmons/

snarky
03-12-2018, 03:54 PM
I think we should try to bring Timmons back.

I live about 10 miles from the Dolphins stadium and a guy I know who works for the county claims that it is an open secret among employees at the stadium that there was an all-out culture war inside that locker room last year and it was mainly driven by Suh. Timmons may have been swept up in that a little bit -- but to my knowledge he was never a problem in Pittsburgh. Operating under the assumption that Shazier is out/done Timmons could be a good stop-gap at ILB.

feltdizz
03-12-2018, 03:58 PM
I think we should try to bring Timmons back.

I live about 10 miles from the Dolphins stadium and a guy I know who works for the county claims that it is an open secret among employees at the stadium that there was an all-out culture war inside that locker room last year and it was mainly driven by Suh. Timmons may have been swept up in that a little bit -- but to my knowledge he was never a problem in Pittsburgh. Operating under the assumption that Shazier is out/done Timmons could be a good stop-gap at ILB.

its a no brainer IMO

he knows the system and can step right in until the draft pick is ready

SteelBucks
03-12-2018, 04:32 PM
its a no brainer IMO

he knows the system and can step right in until the draft pick is ready

Agreed.....

Ernie
03-12-2018, 05:03 PM
its a no brainer IMO

he knows the system and can step right in until the draft pick is ready

x2. Bring him back on a 2 year deal... and let him retire a Steeler.

Chadman
03-12-2018, 05:46 PM
I’d still suggest having him drop weight the way Farrior did in the back end of his career. Didn’t Farrior play at around 15lbs in the end? Timmons came in around 230lbs & ended up leaving Pittsburgh around 255lbs. If we want someone who can cover a bit, I think they need Timmons back down to that 230-235lb range to gain movement.

But I agree- it’s almost a no-brainer decision given the situation. Instantly becomes the signal caller.

SteelBucks
03-12-2018, 06:40 PM
There have been rumors in the past that Timmons and Tomlin didn’t see eye to eye on some things. It may be bogus but if there was tension, let’s hope they can put it behind them. Steelers are in desperate need of an ILB and Timmons would be a perfect short term fit.

NorthCoast
03-12-2018, 07:13 PM
and what does the Steelers defense do on passing downs?... or for that matter how do they prevent teams from exploiting Timmons in pass pro every time he is on the field?

Buzz
03-12-2018, 07:56 PM
I’d still suggest having him drop weight the way Farrior did in the back end of his career. Didn’t Farrior play at around 15lbs in the end? Timmons came in around 230lbs & ended up leaving Pittsburgh around 255lbs. If we want someone who can cover a bit, I think they need Timmons back down to that 230-235lb range to gain movement.

But I agree- it’s almost a no-brainer decision given the situation. Instantly becomes the signal caller.

Timmons never was comfortable calling the signals, was he? I think they gave Shazier that job because LT sucked at it.

I wasn't happy that we let Timmons get away last year, but at this point, I'd rather see the team use the money they'd have to spend on him to hire a younger man who is able to be a three-down player. I'm not convinced that LT is that guy anymore.

Chadman
03-12-2018, 10:03 PM
But who is the younger man ready to step in? FA isn’t exactly offering up a lot of solutions when you pick apart the list. Unless there was a standout option in FA, I’d imagine the ‘answer’ for long term ILB play will come from the draft. And the Steelers will rarely go into the draft with a ‘glaring’ need. Timmons fits the short term solution. He wasn’t terrible in pass protection. He just isn’t as good as Shazier at this point of his career. How do the Steelers combat the 3rd down situations? How about a hybrid Safety/LB like JJ Wilcox, who the Steelers are suggesting might be coming back? I still think a reduction in his playing weight probably extends his career. I think Shazier was given the play calling in a view to transition to ‘post-Timmons’ Steelers D.

His overall run defence is good. He’s not a locker room liability. The coaching staff are going to be comfortable with him. And it won’t force a rookie into starting. I honestly do not see a downside. Even in a ‘bad year’ at Miami, he wasn’t awful.

pittpete
03-12-2018, 11:21 PM
and what does the Steelers defense do on passing downs?... or for that matter how do they prevent teams from exploiting Timmons in pass pro every time he is on the field?

Which downs are exactly passing downs?

pittpete
03-12-2018, 11:25 PM
Vet min for Timmons this year would be $1,015,000...Not bad for depth

Slapstick
03-13-2018, 05:45 AM
Vet min for Timmons this year would be $1,015,000...Not bad for depth

If it is a minimum qualified contract, it would count even less toward the cap...

Buzz
03-13-2018, 09:09 AM
This article states what the OP said, that there may be bad blood between Timmons and Tomlin.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/03/report-lawrence-timmons-has-some-things-to-sort-out-with-tomlin-before-talks-to-return/

Makes it a little less likely that he comes back to the 'Burgh, IMO.

Northern_Blitz
03-13-2018, 11:15 AM
Which downs are exactly passing downs?

All of them. I think that's why the question is important.

Slapstick
03-13-2018, 11:17 AM
For what it's worth, Timmons defended more passes last year than Mike Mitchell...

phillyesq
03-13-2018, 11:48 AM
There have been rumors in the past that Timmons and Tomlin didnít see eye to eye on some things. It may be bogus but if there was tension, letís hope they can put it behind them. Steelers are in desperate need of an ILB and Timmons would be a perfect short term fit.

Aditi Kinkhabwala from NFL network, who is pretty plugged in to the Steelers, reported yesterday that there is some issue with Tomlin and Timmons that would need to be resolved.

On a minimum contract, yes, Timmons is an upgrade over Sean Spence. But he's also an ILB who won't play special teams. Hard to roster a guy like that. I don't think the Steelers should rush out to sign Timmons. After the draft, if they need a veteran, I'm ok with a qualified contract and an opportunity to compete for a roster spot. But I wouldn't go beyond that.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-14-2018, 07:49 AM
Aditi Kinkhabwala from NFL network, who is pretty plugged in to the Steelers, reported yesterday that there is some issue with Tomlin and Timmons that would need to be resolved.

...

FWIW, yesterday I read Bouchette say (or was it Fittipaldi) that the only thing Timmons needs to resolve with Tomlin is why he walked away from the Dolphins for a game or two.