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View Full Version : Hey guys, I heard something on Sunday; I want your feedback.



Steel Maniac
02-21-2018, 11:22 AM
I was listening to ESPN radio last Sunday. And they dropped some info I found very interesting.

They said that no team with a QB's salary that takes more then 13% of the salary cap has won a Super Bowl since Steve Young did in the the 90's. Quickly, one of the guys said well what about Tom Brady? But Brady has only taken as high as 10% of the Patriots cap and he takes less to allow the Pats to do what they need to do.

So the direction of the conversation was headed toward Cousins and how much he is about to get and to Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers they are saying has told Green Bay he has to have more than Cousins because he's better than Cousins.

All of the guys agreed that the contracts that Cousins and Rodgers are about to get is going basically eliminate those teams from championship contention of any sort because the managements of those teams will be salary cap strapped.

So in light of that discussion, I'm asking, with Ben about to get a new, short term deal, what amount is fair to Ben but is will also be fair to the organization without handicapping us from continuing to build a crediable defense?

Isn't it time for Ben to take a discount?

williar
02-21-2018, 12:45 PM
He should be more than happy to offer a discount. He has had a few "big" contracts. It's time to step aside and let some of the up and coming stars finally get theirs if he wants to continue to win.

Let's be very clear, Ben is not the reason we win, his best days are way behind him. He is a strong, reliable, grizzled veteran, however, he is great at nothing and his game still leaves a lot to be desired; Otherwise, we wouldn't be sitting here lamenting about upgrading the defense or die! Why? Because we all know the offense cannot carry this team to a super bow!

pittpete
02-21-2018, 12:54 PM
Then what do we need Ben for?
Might as well cut him and grab a cheaper veteran.

Oviedo
02-21-2018, 12:54 PM
He should be more than happy to offer a discount. He has had a few "big" contracts. It's time to step aside and let some of the up and coming stars finally get theirs if he wants to continue to win.

Let's be very clear, Ben is not the reason we win, his best days are way behind him. He is a strong, reliable, grizzled veteran, however, he is great at nothing and his game still leaves a lot to be desired; Otherwise, we wouldn't be sitting here lamenting about upgrading the defense or die! Why? Because we all know the offense cannot carry this team to a super bow!


I have to strongly disagree with you. Ben is exactly why we win. He touches the ball every offensive play. Our offense takes two steps back when he isn't playing

williar
02-21-2018, 01:08 PM
I have to strongly disagree with you. Ben is exactly why we win. He touches the ball every offensive play. Our offense takes two steps back when he isn't playing So why are we sitting here talking about defense, then? We should have had a parade last week because I strongly believe we had the best offensive talent in the NFL last year. Stop being delusional! Ben has had more than enough talent around him these past few years to have won another super bowl. So, what is your reasoning for the 10 year drought? Tomlin?

williar
02-21-2018, 02:07 PM
To get back to the point. I am not a fan of these QBS breaking the bank! It is getting ridiculous. This is not the NBA and you need a lot more than one or two superstars, so to speak, to get it done! I hope they enjoy their money because I doubt if any of them are going to win!

I do not begrudge the money that these guys earn, especially in football. But, unless you are Brady, Rogers, Newton, Wilson, Brees, etc where you have proven you can carry a team; for most of these guys, even some that are on their 3rd or 4th contract, it's just a money grab! And it coming at the expense of surrounding yourself with a competitive team. I think it is selfish on their part.

Does Ben really need another 100 million dollars contract? I mean some of you have the nerve to complain about what LB wants or what AB got. Well, I cringe at the thought of what this offense would look like without them.

Steel Maniac
02-21-2018, 02:16 PM
To me, If I were running a team, 20 mil a year is the top I'd ever pay a QB in a year. Period. Because of the way you have to fill in the other positions on the team. And I'd let my franchise QB know that too.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 02:37 PM
Haha... I had this exact conversation in a Bell thread and was low key called a hypocrite and a racist for wanting Ben to take a hometown discount. Bell has yet to get that one big contract. Ben is on his third one. Take a little less and keep this core together. He already said he doesn’t want big changes because he thinks we are close to a SB.

Anyways. I’ve always said the reason Cowher was so competitive is because we never had the huge QB contract around our necks.

Its also the reason we lost 4 AFCCG’s.

I keep saying life after Ben won’t be like the 80’s because we have some serious talent and will be able to add even more without Ben’s cap hit.

Folks think all all we need to do is get rid of Bell and we will be able to do it but I think that’s a mistake. He is a huge part of our offense and we have no idea if we can find his replacement.

I just hope he is willing to shave a few dollars off this last contract since he already made a ton of money.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 02:40 PM
To me, If I were running a team, 20 mil a year is the top I'd ever pay a QB in a year. Period. Because of the way you have to fill in the other positions on the team. And I'd let my franchise QB know that too.

Depends on how things play out at the time. Am I really going to refuse to pay a franchise QB 23 mill per year or 25 mill per year if he is Rogers or Brady or Ben?

Its not like these guys grow on trees.

Now, if I’m Detroit? I’m not paying that guy another huge contract because he hasn’t won jack and we play in a dome.

I wouldnt pay Cousins more than 15 mill. He isn’t that guy.

Steel Maniac
02-21-2018, 02:47 PM
I wouldn't pay Cousins more than 15 mill. He isn’t that guy.

I hear ya that you wouldn't pay Cousins more than 15 mil but let's say Cousins goes to Jacksonville and leads them to a Super Bowl win, and then he says he wants to be bumped up into Rodgers zip code because he's won as many championships as Rodgers?

And if your Jacksonville, you just saw how it was going the game manger rout with Bortles; So you can't just say our defense will do it for us.

squidkid
02-21-2018, 02:49 PM
ben should hold out for more money, not give a home town discount. he has a family to look after. he is underpaid and has outperformed his contract. forget about the team, it is about respect and how much you make compared to other players.
he should be gettin him some mo money

williar
02-21-2018, 03:03 PM
I will say it all day long. Give me a QB who protects the football, doesn't make crucial mistakes and keeps the chains moving. Surround him with a running game and a strong defense and you should be able to compete with anybody.

I truly don't believe you have to have a top-heavy, superstar QB to win. Put some talent around him and see what you get. Ala - Jared Goff/Blake Bortles.

williar
02-21-2018, 03:06 PM
ben should hold out for more money, not give a home town discount. he has a family to look after. he is underpaid and has outperformed his contract. forget about the team, it is about respect and how much you make compared to other players.
he should be gettin him some mo money LOL! I hope he does...

williar
02-21-2018, 03:09 PM
I hear ya that you wouldn't pay Cousins more than 15 mil but let's say Cousins goes to Jacksonville and leads them to a Super Bowl win, and then he says he wants to be bumped up into Rodgers zip code because he's won as many championships as Rodgers?

And if your Jacksonville, you just saw how it was going the game manger rout with Bortles; So you can't just say our defense will do it for us. Jacksonville would have beat NE if the league wouldn't have deployed the officials in that game.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 03:41 PM
I hear ya that you wouldn't pay Cousins more than 15 mil but let's say Cousins goes to Jacksonville and leads them to a Super Bowl win, and then he says he wants to be bumped up into Rodgers zip code because he's won as many championships as Rodgers?

And if your Jacksonville, you just saw how it was going the game manger rout with Bortles; So you can't just say our defense will do it for us.

I actually think Bortles played well enough to win that game. The OC went too conservative in the second half with the run run pass and I also think the Pats got away with a few PIís on those crossing routes.

Romo was correct. Donít wait until 3rd down to pass the ball.

I think it would be a mistake to pay Cousins top dollar if he won a SB with that defense. Once you pay him $130 mill that D sheds some talent due to the cap and then you have the Ravens scenario all over again.

QBís will always get their money though. The league is designed for them to get paid.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 03:43 PM
ben should hold out for more money, not give a home town discount. he has a family to look after. he is underpaid and has outperformed his contract. forget about the team, it is about respect and how much you make compared to other players.
he should be gettin him some mo money

Lmao.. never change.

squidkid
02-21-2018, 03:45 PM
Lmao.. never change.


yet you want bell to do the same.................

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 03:55 PM
yet you want bell to do the same.................

What part of last contract vs first contract do you not understand?

I always want/expect playermakers to get paid on their first big money contract.

Its not hard to comprehend if you are a smart person... which is obviously why you fail to understand the difference.

Everyone else can see it but keep on being who you are. It firs you well.

Disco1981
02-21-2018, 03:59 PM
So why are we sitting here talking about defense, then? We should have had a parade last week because I strongly believe we had the best offensive talent in the NFL last year. Stop being delusional! Ben has had more than enough talent around him these past few years to have won another super bowl. So, what is your reasoning for the 10 year drought? Tomlin?

Ummmmmm Yes

Captain Lemming
02-21-2018, 04:42 PM
He should be more than happy to offer a discount. He has had a few "big" contracts. It's time to step aside and let some of the up and coming stars finally get theirs if he wants to continue to win.

Let's be very clear, Ben is not the reason we win, his best days are way behind him. He is a strong, reliable, grizzled veteran, however, he is great at nothing and his game still leaves a lot to be desired; Otherwise, we wouldn't be sitting here lamenting about upgrading the defense or die! Why? Because we all know the offense cannot carry this team to a super bow!

This “logic” is SO EASY to destroy
Seriously you people really could not come up with a legit reply after all this time?
You disappoint me.

Unassailable answer to the above:

Willar we need to upgrade the defense because the offense run by Ben scored FORTY TWO POINTS and LOST to an offense run by a backup.

42 points is the most points EVER scored in a Steelers post season game period. We have 6 rings and never once scored more than we just scored in this loss.

Brady and the Pats scored 24 and BARELY beat them in a ref aided frantic come back.

Ben singlehandedly outscored (5TD passes if you include extra points) the Jags entire playoff foes. This includes the Bill, the Pats, AND the rest of his own team (Steelers) COMBINED.

Oh, and that 462 and 5 TDS........came against the leagues NUMBER ONE PASS DEFENSE.

That’s 42 point and the QB is the problem?

Captain Lemming
02-21-2018, 04:45 PM
What part of last contract vs first contract do you not understand?

I always want players Ayers to get paid on their first big money contract.


Liar!
I never saw you calling for “Ayers” to get a big money deal. ;)

Captain Lemming
02-21-2018, 04:50 PM
This “logic” is SO EASY to destroy
Seriously you people really could not come up with a legit reply after all this time?
You disappoint me.

Unassailable answer to the above:

Willar we need to upgrade the defense because the offense run by Ben scored FORTY TWO POINTS and LOST to an offense run by a backup.

42 points is the most points EVER scored in a Steelers post season game period. We have 6 rings and never once scored more than we just scored in this loss.

Brady and the Pats scored 24 and BARELY beat them in a ref aided frantic come back.

Ben singlehandedly outscored (5TD passes if you include extra points) the Jags entire playoff foes. This includes the Bill, the Pats, AND the rest of his own team (Steelers) COMBINED.

Oh, and that 462 and 5 TDS........came against the leagues NUMBER ONE PASS DEFENSE.

That’s 42 point and the QB is the problem?

Steeler record playoff points
Steeler record QB yards
Steeler record QB Touch downs

All occurred in this loss

williar
02-21-2018, 05:25 PM
This ďlogicĒ is SO EASY to destroy
Seriously you people really could not come up with a legit reply after all this time?
You disappoint me.

Unassailable answer to the above:

Willar we need to upgrade the defense because the offense run by Ben scored FORTY TWO POINTS and LOST to an offense run by a backup.

42 points is the most points EVER scored in a Steelers post season game period. We have 6 rings and never once scored more than we just scored in this loss.

Brady and the Pats scored 24 and BARELY beat them in a ref aided frantic come back.

Ben singlehandedly outscored (5TD passes if you include extra points) the Jags entire playoff foes. This includes the Bill, the Pats, AND the rest of his own team (Steelers) COMBINED.

Oh, and that 462 and 5 TDS........came against the leagues NUMBER ONE PASS DEFENSE.

Thatís 42 point and the QB is the problem? The problem was as per usual he starts most games like he still needs his newspaper and morning coffee. He served up his as per usual, patented, careless turnovers that resulted in 14-points for the jags. As a result of your in the whole down 28-7. This is where vintage Ben comes in. He excels at garbage ball. Playing catch up, backyard ball where there is no plan nor order. Just run around, throw it up and pray somebody catches it. Then conveniently blames it on Tomlin and Haley for the outcome.

squidkid
02-21-2018, 05:31 PM
What part of last contract vs first contract do you not understand?

I always want players Ayers to get paid on their first big money contract.

Its not not hard to comprehend if you are a smart person... which is obviously why you fail to understand the difference.

Everyone else can see it but keep on being who you are. It firs you well.

hey retard, bell already got his "first contract'. he chose to take a 1 year contract over a 4 or 5 year
you stated in another post that you wouldnt give cousins more than 15. why is that? cousins is working for his first contract.
geez, ben and cousins should take less but bell should hold out for 2 times the next highest rb.
i wonder why youi think that

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 05:32 PM
The problem was as per usual he starts most games like he still needs his newspaper and morning coffee. He served up his as per usual, patented, careless turnovers that resulted in 14-points for the jags. As a result of your in the whole down 28-7. This is where vintage Ben comes in. He excels at garbage ball. Playing catch up, backyard ball where there is no plan nor order. Just run around, throw it up and pray somebody catches it. Then conveniently blames it on Tomlin and Haley for the outcome.

Damn... sadly, this is true.

Oviedo
02-21-2018, 05:45 PM
To me, If I were running a team, 20 mil a year is the top I'd ever pay a QB in a year. Period. Because of the way you have to fill in the other positions on the team. And I'd let my franchise QB know that too.


$20M? Why not $19M? How about $16.5M? So you would pass on a future Hall of Fame QB because he asked for $22M?

QBs, like every position, get paid a combination of performance and the market rate. The reality is that rate is on the high side of $20M

Sugar
02-21-2018, 05:52 PM
The problem was as per usual he starts most games like he still needs his newspaper and morning coffee. He served up his as per usual, patented, careless turnovers that resulted in 14-points for the jags. As a result of your in the whole down 28-7. This is where vintage Ben comes in. He excels at garbage ball. Playing catch up, backyard ball where there is no plan nor order. Just run around, throw it up and pray somebody catches it. Then conveniently blames it on Tomlin and Haley for the outcome.

Yet no matter what Ben did (5 TD's!!) the D couldn't stop anything. Quit with the straw man BS about Ben blaming coaches as if that has anything to do with the discussion. Ben is the best QB this franchise has ever had and is worth every dime. He's been successful with and without all the talent on this Offense.

pittpete
02-21-2018, 08:01 PM
Going rate for RB's is not $15 million per year so throw your dopey Bell, first contract BS out the window...
I would love for Ben to play for free, but unfortunately some moronic owners throw $$$ at QB's like it doesn't matter.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 09:13 PM
hey retard, bell already got his "first contract'. he chose to take a 1 year contract over a 4 or 5 year
you stated in another post that you wouldnt give cousins more than 15. why is that? cousins is working for his first contract.
geez, ben and cousins should take less but bell should hold out for 2 times the next highest rb.
i wonder why youi think that

When did I say Cousins doesn’t have a right to ask for top dollar?

Personally, I think he is trash so I wouldn’t pay top dollar but I have no problem with him trying to get it.

Why is it so hard to understand the difference?

oh, I know why.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 09:21 PM
Going rate for RB's is not $15 million per year so throw your dopey Bell, first contract BS out the window...
I would love for Ben to play for free, but unfortunately some moronic owners throw $$$ at QB's like it doesn't matter.

Going rate wasn’t 12 mill per year but that’s what we offered him.

So... maybe that was the going rate for Bell? Lol

hell, the numbers surprised me at the time but I tried to tell you guys 8 mill for Bell wasn’t market rate.

Dont get mad at me bro, I’m just posting what I believe the FO is going to do.

i don’t want Ben to pay for free. I think they said his starting point is 24.5 mill due to Jimmy G’s contract. I would hope he would take a little less than a max deal for obvious reasons.

pittpete
02-21-2018, 09:30 PM
So now you are posting for the FO?
This way when your wrong, you can blame the FO?
Got ya.....:p

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 09:38 PM
Yet no matter what Ben did (5 TD's!!) the D couldn't stop anything. Quit with the straw man BS about Ben blaming coaches as if that has anything to do with the discussion. Ben is the best QB this franchise has ever had and is worth every dime. He's been successful with and without all the talent on this Offense.

I agree with everything you types except Ben hasn’t always had success. He has ha d a few ugly seasons. The term Ugly Ben has stuck for a reason

but he is by far the best QB this franchise has ever had.

I just hope his every very penny is a hometown discount.

feltdizz
02-21-2018, 09:41 PM
So now you are posting for the FO?
This way when your wrong, you can blame the FO?
Got ya.....:p

Haha.. no. If we donít get a deal done or they refuse to offer him a contract slightly better than last year then I will be wrong.

I have no no problem admitting it if that happens.

However, if we get a deal done I know you guys will continue to call me names and have an attitude like I forced their hand.

I mean, Art and Colbert said they want to get a deal done and feel they are closer than last year.

Maybe itís all lies but I doubt it.

Sugar
02-21-2018, 11:01 PM
I agree with everything you types except Ben hasn’t always had success. He has ha d a few ugly seasons. The term Ugly Ben has stuck for a reason

but he is by far the best QB this franchise has ever had.

I just hope his every very penny is a hometown discount.

He's had success with a variety of different WR's, OL and RB's so it's not like Bell or Brown are making him. If he chooses to devalue his services, then that's his decision- but I'm not hoping for it.

pittpete
02-21-2018, 11:51 PM
Haha.. no. If we don’t get a deal done or they refuse to offer him a contract slightly better than last year then I will be wrong.

I have no no problem admitting it if that happens.

However, if we get a deal done I know you guys will continue to call me names and have an attitude like I forced their hand.

I mean, Art and Colbert said they want to get a deal done and feel they are closer than last year.

Maybe it’s all lies but I doubt it.

I hope we get a reasonable deal done also..Perhaps you have me confused with another poster..I know that i'm in your head constantly but....:p
Like i said as long as we have the capability to add players that the defense sorely needs, signing Bell is good stuff.
If Spence and Mitchell are starting on D this year i might just poke my eyes out so i don't have to watch.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 01:38 AM
If Mitchell and Spence are starting, then Colbert and Tomlin are not serious about winning this season.

Captain Lemming
02-22-2018, 01:43 AM
I mean, Art and Colbert said they want to get a deal done and feel they are closer than last year.

Maybe it’s all lies but I doubt it.

You’re probably right but.....
I have never hoped so badly that I was being lied to. :)

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 08:55 AM
You’re probably right but.....
I have never hoped so badly that I was being lied to. :)

Me too. I’m hoping it’s all a stall routine. Tag him and then see if we sign Hyde for waaaaaay less or draft a runningback and move on.

I like Bell but he can be replaced with a rb that can do at least 80% of what he does and save money to seriously address the defense.

RuthlessBurgher
02-22-2018, 11:19 AM
hey retard

Ixnay on the etardray...

Slapstick
02-22-2018, 11:34 AM
Ixnay on the etardray...

It's pretty pathetic that you have to tell someone that...

williar
02-22-2018, 01:14 PM
Yet no matter what Ben did (5 TD's!!) the D couldn't stop anything. Quit with the straw man BS about Ben blaming coaches as if that has anything to do with the discussion. Ben is the best QB this franchise has ever had and is worth every dime. He's been successful with and without all the talent on this Offense. We wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if it wasn't for that D, who bailed this team out until mid-season because the offense wasn't doing squat! Some of you sure do have short memories! Why does he have to be down by 3 touchdowns (of his own making) before he tries to wake up and start playing ball? Ben cannot carry a team nor an offense. Just admit it and call it a day. He would have no super bowl rings if it weren't for great defensive play. And guess what? He won't get another one if he doesn't have another great defense leading the way telling him to "hop on!" The Rooney's might as well sale the franchise if they give this overrated QB another 100 million dollar contract while letting LeVeon Bell walk. That would be the(LoL) of the century!

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 01:16 PM
We wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs if it wasn't for that D, who bailed this team out until mid-season because the offense wasn't doing squat! Some of you sure do have short memories! Why does he have to be down by 3 touchdowns (of his own making) before he tries to wake up and start playing ball? Ben cannot carry a team nor an offense. Just admit it and call it a day. He would have no super bowl rings if it weren't for great defensive play. And guess what? He won't get another one if he doesn't have another great defense leading the way telling him to "hop on!" The Rooney's might as well sale the franchise if they give this overrated QB another 100 million dollar contract while letting LeVeon Bell walk. That would be the(LoL) of the century!

No short memory; again, we only played against two legit QB's all year. TB and Stafford. We played arguably the softest schedule in the league and it masked how bad our defense truly was.

williar
02-22-2018, 01:20 PM
No short memory; again, we only played against two legit QB's all year. TB and Stafford. We played arguably the softest schedule in the league and it masked how bad our defense truly was. Well, guess what? The offense performed even worse. They were supposed to be the strong suit. and carry the team, I didn't expect a young defense to have to carry the load. But they did well up until Shazier got hurt. The offense never really showed up like they were supposed to. Most of those games shouldn't have even been close if the offense would have been playing up to their potential.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 01:25 PM
Well, guess what? The offense performed even worse. They were supposed to be the strong suit. and carry the team, I didn't expect a young defense to have to carry the load. But they did well up until Shazier got hurt. The offense never really showed up like they were supposed to. Most of those games shouldn't have even been close if the offense would have been playing up to their potential.

I agree with you on that. We had Leveon basically show up and use the first 3 regular season games as his pre-season games. Which upset the chemistry of the run game and offense. So the whole offense was essentially out of wack and spotty because of that.

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 01:34 PM
No short memory; again, we only played against two legit QB's all year. TB and Stafford. We played arguably the softest schedule in the league and it masked how bad our defense truly was.

how good were the defenses Ben faced this year?

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 01:42 PM
I agree with you on that. We had Leveon basically show up and use the first 3 regular season games as his pre-season games. Which upset the chemistry of the run game and offense. So the whole offense was essentially out of wack and spotty because of that.

They weren’t the only reason... lol.

Bryant was terrible and Ben was forcing everything to AB.

Ben was also pretty bad in the road and unfortunately this has been a trend the last few years.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 01:58 PM
Thay wasn’t the only reason... lol.

Bryant was terrible and Ben was forcing everything to AB.

Ben was also pretty bad in the road and unfortunately this has been a trend the last few years.

It's called a trickle down effect Feltz. When the running game is ineffective, then the entire offense is on Ben. So then with no emergence for of a receiver opposite of AB (until later) AB had two guys on him early and yeah, the offense was spotty early. But Ben finished the year as the # 10 QB in the league in overall production.

Ben is not Dan Marino/Aaron Rodgers where he can shoulder the entire offense. Never has been. So stop talking like he should be able to do that.

williar
02-22-2018, 02:11 PM
Ben is not Dan Marino/Aaron Rodgers where he can shoulder the entire offense. Never has been. So stop talking like he should be able to do that.[/QUOTE] I understand his limitations. But, tell that to the rest of these cats who come on here acting like Ben is the Steelers and they couldn't do anything without him. Maybe once upon a time, he had that kind of swag for a little bit. Everybody has should have seen enough of Ben to understand he can be as much bad as he is good!

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-22-2018, 02:11 PM
Let's approach this from another angle.

Right now the Steelers are $6.5M under the cap. Ben has a cap hit of $23.2M in 2018. What if we could make all of that disappear? No dead money hit, just no Ben and a free up of his full cap number.

We now have $29.7M theoretical dollars available. There are also the same questions surrounding the team - what do you do with Bell? How do you upgrade the D? But now there is money to do so. The only condition is that your answers are not sign every big name player to a huge contract with a tiny first year cap hit. Use cap numbers somewhat close to a reasonable average contract value (i.e. if you are going to sign Bell for 4 years, $60M, go with a first year cap hit of $12M or so, not $4M.

What would you do and does it give you a better chance of winning as the current team with Ben?

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 02:20 PM
Let's approach this from another angle.

Right now the Steelers are $6.5M under the cap. Ben has a cap hit of $23.2M in 2018. What if we could make all of that disappear? No dead money hit, just no Ben and a free up of his full cap number.

We now have $29.7M theoretical dollars available. There are also the same questions surrounding the team - what do you do with Bell? How do you upgrade the D? But now there is money to do so. The only condition is that your answers are not sign every big name player to a huge contract with a tiny first year cap hit. Use cap numbers somewhat close to a reasonable average contract value (i.e. if you are going to sign Bell for 4 years, $60M, go with a first year cap hit of $12M or so, not $4M.

What would you do and does it give you a better chance of winning as the current team with Ben?
Uh oh.... you opened up a terrible can of worms with this one.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 02:51 PM
Let's approach this from another angle.

Right now the Steelers are $6.5M under the cap. Ben has a cap hit of $23.2M in 2018. What if we could make all of that disappear? No dead money hit, just no Ben and a free up of his full cap number.

We now have $29.7M theoretical dollars available. There are also the same questions surrounding the team - what do you do with Bell? How do you upgrade the D? But now there is money to do so. The only condition is that your answers are not sign every big name player to a huge contract with a tiny first year cap hit. Use cap numbers somewhat close to a reasonable average contract value (i.e. if you are going to sign Bell for 4 years, $60M, go with a first year cap hit of $12M or so, not $4M.

What would you do and does it give you a better chance of winning as the current team with Ben?

OHHHH...nice question. With that money free, Id use it to upgrade at our weakest areas first; linebackers and secondary . With a focus of who's going to fit into our schemes well which means it might not always be the most obvious choice but definite upgrades non the less. I'd sign Carlos Hyde for way less then what Bell is asking for too. Then look to address overall depth everywhere else.

Sugar
02-22-2018, 02:55 PM
Well, guess what? The offense performed even worse. They were supposed to be the strong suit. and carry the team, I didn't expect a young defense to have to carry the load. But they did well up until Shazier got hurt. The offense never really showed up like they were supposed to. Most of those games shouldn't have even been close if the offense would have been playing up to their potential.

Never showed really showed up? What do you call 42 points against one of the top D's in the league? Heck there were 26 points against the Vikings early in the year that people forget about as well. The AFCN wasn't the strongest this year, but each D in the division is still pretty good. Ben has been a top performer before Bell, Bryant, Brown, JuJu or McDonald were here. He's not perfect, but he's one of the best in the NFL and the best this franchise has ever had.

Northern_Blitz
02-22-2018, 03:01 PM
I agree with everything you types except Ben hasn’t always had success. He has ha d a few ugly seasons. The term Ugly Ben has stuck for a reason

but he is by far the best QB this franchise has ever had.

I just hope his every very penny is a hometown discount.

We will overpay Ben. Just like we overpaid AB. UFAs get overpaid. You just need to gamble that (1) they will stay healthy and (2) they won't decline faster than contract values increase with inflation.

I think that both bets are bad when you're talking about RBs. RBs get significant injuries very often because their job is to get destroyed by huge angry defensive players. Many RBs also decline very rapidly when they start to go. I'd be especially worried about this with Bell because he gets so many touches because we almost never split carries for him and he catches the ball so much.

We've recently complained a lot about how the team treated Harrison. But imagine if we let Blount split carries with Bell and didn't turn him into a malcontent. That would be one heck of a RB by committee situation. Bell would have less crazy stats so he wouldn't be so crazy expensive. Blount is an average to above-average back so we wouldn't have had to rely on Harris / Tate or an almost retired Williams in playoff games when Bell got hurt.

We can make a legit argument that lack of depth behind stars is a big part of our last 3 playoff exits

2015: No legit NFL player behind RB Bell after he got hurt.
2016: AB gets hurt so WR passing game suffers. Then Bell gets hurt in game. 2.4 YPC from Williams meant he was looking for a job with the WWE in the off season. Offensive is terrible. Terrible D is the bigger cause of this loss, but sinking more money into the O doesn't make the D better.
2017: Literally don't have a back up on the team for Shazier. Need to pick up someone off the street.

Letting Bell leave and signing two (or more) average to above-average guys for less make it so that our season isn't screwed if he gets hurt during the season. Not an unlikely thing for a RB who will probably have > 1200 touches in 3 years if he makes it through the regular season uninjured. Is there even a play to compare to that amount of usage?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-22-2018, 03:26 PM
Uh oh.... you opened up a terrible can of worms with this one.

That was my plan ;)

williar
02-22-2018, 03:27 PM
Never showed really showed up? What do you call 42 points against one of the top D's in the league? Heck there were 26 points against the Vikings early in the year that people forget about as well. The AFCN wasn't the strongest this year, but each D in the division is still pretty good. Ben has been a top performer before Bell, Bryant, Brown, JuJu or McDonald were here. He's not perfect, but he's one of the best in the NFL and the best this franchise has ever had. Why do you keep referencing that one good game? but never mention that 5 interception game against the Jags. You can say that cost us the number one seed. Can you imagine if the offense would have been consistently putting up that kind of production all season? We would have been the "untouchables!" That is what a lot of us were expecting. When they fell short of their expectations then, the onus shifted to the defense, which wasn't really fair.

pittpete
02-22-2018, 04:47 PM
Let's approach this from another angle.

Right now the Steelers are $6.5M under the cap. Ben has a cap hit of $23.2M in 2018. What if we could make all of that disappear? No dead money hit, just no Ben and a free up of his full cap number.

We now have $29.7M theoretical dollars available. There are also the same questions surrounding the team - what do you do with Bell? How do you upgrade the D? But now there is money to do so. The only condition is that your answers are not sign every big name player to a huge contract with a tiny first year cap hit. Use cap numbers somewhat close to a reasonable average contract value (i.e. if you are going to sign Bell for 4 years, $60M, go with a first year cap hit of $12M or so, not $4M.

What would you do and does it give you a better chance of winning as the current team with Ben?

Please do your homework because it's not that simple...If Ben is cut before JUN 1 or traded then the team is hit with $12,400,000 in dead $$$$$$.
If he's cut after Jun 1 then the number is $6,200,000

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-22-2018, 05:18 PM
Please do your homework because it's not that simple...If Ben is cut before JUN 1 or traded then the team is hit with $12,400,000 in dead $$$$$$.
If he's cut after Jun 1 then the number is $6,200,000

I understand how the cap works, and how dead money works. That is why I specifically mentioned that we are magically making it disappear. An opportunity for those who claim that Ben does not help the team win to show what they would do without him.

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 06:19 PM
Why do you keep referencing that one good game? but never mention that 5 interception game against the Jags. You can say that cost us the number one seed. Can you imagine if the offense would have been consistently putting up that kind of production all season? We would have been the "untouchables!" That is what a lot of us were expecting. When they fell short of their expectations then, the onus shifted to the defense, which wasn't really fair.

Imagine if Ben didn’t throw that stupid INT vs the Pats on the last play?

we still had a chance to tie that game without that terrible decision.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 06:30 PM
Never showed really showed up? What do you call 42 points against one of the top D's in the league? Heck there were 26 points against the Vikings early in the year that people forget about as well. The AFCN wasn't the strongest this year, but each D in the division is still pretty good. Ben has been a top performer before Bell, Bryant, Brown, JuJu or McDonald were here. He's not perfect, but he's one of the best in the NFL and the best this franchise has ever had.

Ben finished as a top 10 QB in the NFL this year.

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 07:09 PM
Ben finished as a top 10 QB in the NFL this year.

he should be top 3 with all this talent on O.

Steel Maniac
02-22-2018, 07:26 PM
he should be top 3 with all this talent on O.

You need to stop. LOL. He finished right where he needed to finish because your boy Le'veon didn't come to camp and used the first 3-4 games as preseason games. Blame that on YOUR BOY Le'veon. Oh yeah, I forgot , in your eyes Le'veon can't do no wrong LMFAO!!! :p

When Le'veon got caught smoking, Feltz said, " Well pot should be legal anyway! It isn't Le'veon's fault." :D

feltdizz
02-22-2018, 08:40 PM
You need to stop. LOL. He finished right where he needed to finish because your boy Le'veon didn't come to camp and used the first 3-4 games as preseason games. Blame that on YOUR BOY Le'veon. Oh yeah, I forgot , in your eyes Le'veon can't do no wrong LMFAO!!! :p

When Le'veon got caught smoking, Feltz said, " Well pot should be legal anyway! It isn't Le'veon's fault." :D

It should be legal.. lol

thats another debate but you seriously are blaming Bell for Ben’s slow starts?

I blame Bell for his slow start but Ben has a tendency to start slow. Maybe it’s one of the reasons Haley wasn’t retained.

Ben is a good QB but the one knock on him is his slow starts and play on the road.

williar
02-23-2018, 11:03 AM
Imagine if Ben didnít throw that stupid INT vs the Pats on the last play?

we still had a chance to tie that game without that terrible decision. One thing I have learned from being on this board is, Ben rarely gets held accountable for ANYTHING! Can you say FREE PASS! You think he got that crappy attitude on his own?

feltdizz
02-23-2018, 03:00 PM
One thing I have learned from being on this board is, Ben rarely gets held accountable for ANYTHING! Can you say FREE PASS! You think he got that crappy attitude on his own?

The D was terrible in that game when we needed them the most but folks act like the O didn’t have its issues.

and like you said, we were down big early. Imagine if we weren’t in desperation mode and played with that type of hunger on the first few drives?

Sugar
02-23-2018, 04:42 PM
One thing I have learned from being on this board is, Ben rarely gets held accountable for ANYTHING! Can you say FREE PASS! You think he got that crappy attitude on his own?

I guess I'm curious why you even think these things. What have you seen that tells you that Ben hasn't been held accountable or has a bad attitude? He gets interviewed in the media a lot. While there are times where he has down days, he doesn't come off as a diva or anything. So, where are you coming from?

Northern_Blitz
02-23-2018, 05:26 PM
I guess I'm curious why you even think these things. What have you seen that tells you that Ben hasn't been held accountable or has a bad attitude? He gets interviewed in the media a lot. While there are times where he has down days, he doesn't come off as a diva or anything. So, where are you coming from?

I also think that people were critical of Ben at the beginning of this season and for his crazy home / road splits.

But I think he was pretty amazing in the Jags game, despite the turnovers and the points that they got. Maybe we win if he doesn't have those turnovers. But, we certainly don't come back if he's even "above average" for the rest of the game.

squidkid
02-23-2018, 05:53 PM
I guess I'm curious why you even think these things. What have you seen that tells you that Ben hasn't been held accountable or has a bad attitude? He gets interviewed in the media a lot. While there are times where he has down days, he doesn't come off as a diva or anything. So, where are you coming from?

yup, ben always takes the blame when we/he sucks
unfortunately, our head coach has never done the same

Steel Maniac
02-24-2018, 12:35 PM
yup, ben always takes the blame when we/he sucks
unfortunately, our head coach has never done the same

Exactly. A coach who was hired as a defensive guy and specifically the secondary. And the defense has been bad since Cowher's players have left. And the secondary has been especially terrible since Troy left.

Captain Lemming
02-24-2018, 09:14 PM
The problem was as per usual he starts most games like he still needs his newspaper and morning coffee.

As does Tom Brady and Joe Montana quite frequently.
Cant have all those "comebacks" if they get off to good starts.

Difference is that they dont have to score 50 to win the game.

feltdizz
02-24-2018, 09:28 PM
yup, ben always takes the blame when we/he sucks
unfortunately, our head coach has never done the same

yeah, Tomlin never takes the blame for losses..

lmao, you always find a way to double down.

Captain Lemming
02-24-2018, 09:43 PM
As does Tom Brady and Joe Montana quite frequently.
Cant have all those "comebacks" if they get off to good starts.

Difference is that they dont have to score 50 to win the game.

Example is perhaps Montana's most famous SB comeback. They scored ZERO TDs and had SIX POINTS going into the fourth quarter.
2 TDs gave them the huge total of TWENTY POINTS, the total they needed to win the game.

Niners won 20 to 16.

Both teams COMBINED scored far less than the Steelers scored in this loss.

Captain Lemming
02-24-2018, 09:48 PM
Example is perhaps Montana's most famous SB comeback. They scored ZERO TDs and had SIX POINTS going into the fourth quarter.
2 TDs gave them the huge total of TWENTY POINTS, the total they needed to win the game.

Niners won 20 to 16.

Both teams COMBINED scored far less than the Steelers scored in this loss.

Now lets talk about Bradys slow starts.
Bradys Pats scored exacty ZERO in the first quarter through SEVEN SUPERBOWLS.

Finally.....2018....they got ONE SOLITARY FIELD GOAL;

8 superbowls.....Brady has THREE points total in the first quarter.

feltdizz
02-24-2018, 09:58 PM
Example is perhaps Montana's most famous SB comeback. They scored ZERO TDs and had SIX POINTS going into the fourth quarter.
2 TDs gave them the huge total of TWENTY POINTS, the total they needed to win the game.

Niners won 20 to 16.

Both teams COMBINED scored far less than the Steelers scored in this loss.

That was the year Dick Lebeau refined the zone blitz. He spoke at length about that game.

But what hat is your point? We watched the Pats and Eagles defenses get shreaded in the SB until the last possession.

I think there was one punt in that game.

Captain Lemming
02-24-2018, 10:18 PM
But what hat is your point?

My response to the criticism of Ben being a slow starter.

The problem was as per usual he starts most games like he still needs his newspaper and morning coffee.

The two QBs that are argued as being GOAT at the position BOTH have a history of slow starts in big games.
Difference is THEY didnt have to score 50 in attempting a comeback.

feltdizz
02-24-2018, 11:36 PM
My response to the criticism of Ben being a slow starter.


The two QBs that are argued as being GOAT at the position BOTH have a history of slow starts in big games.
Difference is THEY didnt have to score 50 in attempting a comeback.

Ehh.. there is a difference. Ben’s slow starts usually involve turnovers and short fields.

Mot scoring points early is different than throwing an INT in your own territory or having a pick 6.

Montana NEVER threw an INT in the SB.

Northern_Blitz
02-25-2018, 07:49 AM
My response to the criticism of Ben being a slow starter.


The two QBs that are argued as being GOAT at the position BOTH have a history of slow starts in big games.
Difference is THEY didnt have to score 50 in attempting a comeback.

I think this is one of those cases where our perspective gets screwed up by only watching (or at least only really being passionate) about one team.

My guess is that on average all offenses start slow.

I think that the point of the early part of the game is to feel out the game plan for the opposing D. Then, when you do that you know how to attack them and your efficiency gets better.