PDA

View Full Version : Steelers rework DeCastro and Tuitt



feltdizz
02-10-2018, 03:35 PM
Cleared 13.26 mill in cap


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22392343/pittsburgh-steelers-rework-deals-david-decastro-stephon-tuitt-clear-1326m-cap-space-2018

Slapstick
02-10-2018, 03:39 PM
Cleared 13.26 mill in cap


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22392343/pittsburgh-steelers-rework-deals-david-decastro-stephon-tuitt-clear-1326m-cap-space-2018

I was right about Tuitt, but figured AB would restructure and not DeCastro...

Cutting Mitchell would create another $5 million...if they drop Sensabaugh and Wilcox, that would put them around $20 in cap space...

Steel Maniac
02-10-2018, 03:50 PM
Looking good. Would love to see them get one key free agent in an area of need. Maybe SS.

NorthCoast
02-10-2018, 04:05 PM
Prefer they find a FA ILB. This defense is average with the current players.

Iron City Inc.
02-10-2018, 04:22 PM
Rams Joyner would be a huge upgrade over MM. Poe would too be a huge help regardless of Hargrave development. We got to easily pushed around up front by the Jags and a solid zero tech would send Big Dan driving down route 30 which would make many here feel better.

Oviedo
02-10-2018, 04:46 PM
Appears they are serious about resigning Bell

I expect at least 3-4 other restructuring

feltdizz
02-10-2018, 05:30 PM
Appears they are serious about resigning Bell

I expect at least 3-4 other restructuring

Yup. This is my thought as well. Also heard they are trying to work out a new 4 year deal with Ben to free up more money

SteelBucks
02-10-2018, 10:25 PM
I was right about Tuitt, but figured AB would restructure and not DeCastro...

Cutting Mitchell would create another $5 million...if they drop Sensabaugh and Wilcox, that would put them around $20 in cap space...

I’d bet the farm that AB will be the next restructure.

steeler_george
02-11-2018, 06:10 AM
Is this money for Bell or our FA? I hope it is for Bell, but would be crazy if they let Bell go and be smart big players in FA.

steeler_george
02-11-2018, 06:38 AM
With the contracts restructuring of Decastro and Tuit, ( I think Brown and Big Ben might be next) let see if they make an offer by the end of next week ( before Feb 20 date of tag franchising). If Bell counters, that will be a sign that he will be dealt. Still split on what route we should take, with over 25 million cap space, we can sign a starting ILB , Safety, RB or 2, and still have our draft picks.

Paraphrasing charles barkley, on a different topic but can apply here " It is like dating Holly Berry or Rhianna, either way is a win win situation."

Northern_Blitz
02-11-2018, 08:12 AM
Is this money for Bell or our FA? I hope it is for Bell, but would be crazy if they let Bell go and be smart big players in FA.

If it's for Bell, I hope it's for the tag (or that he's coming off his insanely high salary demands...which I would like even better). With his reduced performance this year (YPC down ~ 1 yard), I wouldn't be comfortable offering him the same long term deal he rejected last year. He will likely be looking for more.

The more I hear Bell talk about his contract demands, the more I'm thinking it would be better to (1) let Bell walk, (2) sign or draft 1 - 2 guys (depending on what we think of Conner) to split carries and give use ~ 80% of what Bell would, then (3) use the extra money to sign a playmaker or two on D. The Steelers didn't get knocked out because they didn't have enough fire power. I'm more on the side of having a balanced team than of being O heavy (and I don't really know what FAs could come in to help on D).

feltdizz
02-11-2018, 10:57 AM
If it's for Bell, I hope it's for the tag (or that he's coming off his insanely high salary demands...which I would like even better). With his reduced performance this year (YPC down ~ 1 yard), I wouldn't be comfortable offering him the same long term deal he rejected last year. He will likely be looking for more.

The more I hear Bell talk about his contract demands, the more I'm thinking it would be better to (1) let Bell walk, (2) sign or draft 1 - 2 guys (depending on what we think of Conner) to split carries and give use ~ 80% of what Bell would, then (3) use the extra money to sign a playmaker or two on D. The Steelers didn't get knocked out because they didn't have enough fire power. I'm more on the side of having a balanced team than of being O heavy (and I don't really know what FAs could come in to help on D).

I winder what Ben wants and if that has an impact on the FO.

If I’m Ben I don’t want to gamble on a draft pick protecting me. at this point in my career and I would take a little less to help the FO out.

Conner looked good running the ball in limited action but his pass protection left a lot to be desired.

Slapstick
02-11-2018, 11:18 AM
If you’re worrried about pass pro, then there is always Fitzgerald Toussaint...

Steelerphile
02-11-2018, 11:30 AM
The thing about Conner and his so-called poor blocking ability, just boils down to experience, not a lack of willingness or ability to block. That is what I would hope more people would be able to recognize. There may have been a few instances (one or two) in his rookie season, where Conner was a little late recognizing the blitz or the attacking lb or lineman.

I don't worry about this as much as some people apparently do. Rookie season, people, a player is still learning. If a player is willing to work hard and study and apply themselves, recognition errors are correctable. If Conner were not a willing worker, I would worry, but he is a hard worker and very coachable. If Conner were shy about contact, I would worry, but he is a strong physical back, who will be more than capable of picking up linebackers or other players in the backfield.

So, if blocking is people's main reason for doubting Conner, I don't place much weight into it. Conner will become a good blocker. I feel very confident in that. They could easily go with Conner and another good back next year. They need the money they would give to Bell for defensive help, as was stated above.

phillyesq
02-11-2018, 12:14 PM
If it's for Bell, I hope it's for the tag (or that he's coming off his insanely high salary demands...which I would like even better). With his reduced performance this year (YPC down ~ 1 yard), I wouldn't be comfortable offering him the same long term deal he rejected last year. He will likely be looking for more.

The more I hear Bell talk about his contract demands, the more I'm thinking it would be better to (1) let Bell walk, (2) sign or draft 1 - 2 guys (depending on what we think of Conner) to split carries and give use ~ 80% of what Bell would, then (3) use the extra money to sign a playmaker or two on D. The Steelers didn't get knocked out because they didn't have enough fire power. I'm more on the side of having a balanced team than of being O heavy (and I don't really know what FAs could come in to help on D).

I agree here. Bell still likely wants more than he turned down last year. But he's a year older, with another 400ish touches under his belt. His YPC is way down, he did not look particularly explosive, and had few game breaking runs. Given the limited window with having this group of weapons together, I'm fine with tagging him again, but I'd be thrilled if the Steelers were able to work out a deal and get picks in return. I think it's unlikley that you get the two first round picks, but even if you get a first and a second, or a first and future pick, whatever, I'd take it.

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 12:36 PM
While I am on your side in this debate, looking at the timing of the restructurings, leads me to think the plan is to do a deal term deal with Bell.

I will say this people. We can restructure all we want, but 14 mil is 14 mil that is not available. It may be the difference between getting adequate help versus elite talent on the defensive side, or more than one FA acquisition.

As far as running back? Eagles just scored more in their 1st SB than we have in 8 tries. Their backs ran for considerably more than ours did over the season. Not just more attempts, more yards per attempt (by a wide margin).

Bell is a rare talent true. How hard is it to get the Eagles caliber running backs?


Blount was a dirt cheap free agent and Philly got Ajayi from the fins for a ham sandwich and a bag of chips!!!

Their TOTAL cap hit for TWO SB caliber running backs......LESS THAN 2 MILLION!!!

ANYBODY IN THE LEAGUE could have gotten BOTH guys.

This is the point.

Why pay a guy WAY in excess of the market, when it is SO EASY to acquire running back talent on the cheap?

And before any of you start talking "Nick Foles" was cheap too.....he was an anomaly.
Franchise QBs are the norm...pay them.

Steelers, Patriots, Niners, Cowboys.

Those are the only FRANCHISES with more rings than Legarette Blount.



If it's for Bell, I hope it's for the tag (or that he's coming off his insanely high salary demands...which I would like even better). With his reduced performance this year (YPC down ~ 1 yard), I wouldn't be comfortable offering him the same long term deal he rejected last year. He will likely be looking for more.

The more I hear Bell talk about his contract demands, the more I'm thinking it would be better to (1) let Bell walk, (2) sign or draft 1 - 2 guys (depending on what we think of Conner) to split carries and give use ~ 80% of what Bell would, then (3) use the extra money to sign a playmaker or two on D. The Steelers didn't get knocked out because they didn't have enough fire power. I'm more on the side of having a balanced team than of being O heavy (and I don't really know what FAs could come in to help on D).

NorthCoast
02-11-2018, 12:51 PM
While I am on your side in this debate, looking at the timing of the restructurings, leads me to think the plan is to do a deal term deal with Bell.

I will say this people. We can restructure all we want, but 14 mil is 14 mil that is not available. It may be the difference between getting adequate help versus elite talent on the defensive side, or more than one FA acquisition.

As far as running back? Eagles just scored more in their 1st SB than we have in 8 tries. Their backs ran for considerably more than ours did over the season. Not just more attempts, more yards per attempt (by a wide margin).

Bell is a rare talent true. How hard is it to get the Eagles caliber running backs?


Blount was a dirt cheap free agent and Philly got Ajayi from the fins for a ham sandwich and a bag of chips!!!

Their TOTAL cap hit for TWO SB caliber running backs......LESS THAN 2 MILLION!!!

ANYBODY IN THE LEAGUE could have gotten BOTH guys.

This is the point.

Why pay a guy WAY in excess of the market, when it is SO EASY to acquire running back talent on the cheap?

And before any of you start talking "Nick Foles" was cheap too.....he was an anomaly.
Franchise QBs are the norm...pay them.

Steelers, Patriots, Niners, Cowboys.

Those are the only FRANCHISES with more rings than Legarette Blount.


I agree. Again, the Steelers went nowhere in the playoffs with the current offensive roster and it wasn't (for the most part) because of the offense. The Steelers badly need playmakers on defense, especially ILB and Safety. If they think Sutton is their guy in the backfield, then go after an ILB with everything they've got.

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 12:56 PM
I agree. Again, the Steelers went nowhere in the playoffs with the current offensive roster and it wasn't (for the most part) because of the offense. The Steelers badly need playmakers on defense, especially ILB and Safety. If they think Sutton is their guy in the backfield, then go after an ILB with everything they've got.

To highlight your excellent point......
Please share what is the all time record playoff high score by a Steeler team?

Here.....I'll make it easy:


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 01:11 PM
To highlight your excellent point......
Please share what is the all time record playoff high score by a Steeler team?

Here.....I'll make it easy:


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/playoffs.htm

As a frame of reference......We scored more points on "offense" in this loss, than our 2008 Championship game and SB victory COMBINED.

Slapstick
02-11-2018, 01:36 PM
If a true upgrade at FS is not available in FA (or we are unable to afford one due to Bell’s new contract), then we should move Sutton (if that is believed to be an option) and pursue Pierre Desir in free agency. He would be a good depth signing...he would also be good enough to motivate the players ahead of him to play well as well as good enough to be a capable injury replacement if needed. He would also be good competition for Brian Allen. We could probably get him for a Sensabaugh type contract, if not a little more.

Ernie
02-11-2018, 01:58 PM
Appears they are serious about resigning Bell

I expect at least 3-4 other restructuring

Yes it does. I just hope its not at the expense of upgrading the defense.

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 02:14 PM
Yes it does. I just hope its not at the expense of upgrading the defense.

At what he is demanding....it seriously ĎlimitsĒ our potential ability to upgrade no matter how much we free up elsewhere.
We no doubt can do what Slappy mentioned for example even more.
But Bells money ADDED to any other savings could open up all sorts of possibilities in free agency.

It is foolish to invest that dough in a position that is so relatively easy to fill.

Northern_Blitz
02-11-2018, 02:33 PM
Why pay a guy WAY in excess of the market, when it is SO EASY to acquire running back talent on the cheap?

This. Bell is great. But RB is the easiest position to replace in the NFL. Paying anyone 2x more than the next guy is insane at that position. You wouldn't even pay 2x the 2nd highest contract at QB.

Bell's apparent contact demands are insane.

feltdizz
02-11-2018, 02:59 PM
It’s not so easy to acquire a RB on the cheap.

If if it was so easy every team would have it.

Slapstick
02-11-2018, 03:17 PM
It’s not so easy to acquire a RB on the cheap.

If if it was so easy every team would have it.

I disagree. It is relatively easy to acquire a RB on the cheap...it is very difficult to be a successful RB behind an offensive line that isn’t very good...

Philly has an excellent offensive line, so their cheap RBs worked out...

Our line is pretty good...other RBs not named Bell have been fairly successful behind our line when given the opportunity...

Shoe
02-11-2018, 03:20 PM
Rams Joyner would be a huge upgrade over MM. Poe would too be a huge help regardless of Hargrave development. We got to easily pushed around up front by the Jags and a solid zero tech would send Big Dan driving down route 30 which would make many here feel better.

Joyner would be interesting, but Poe is unnecessary. If you gotta go out and get Poe, then something is really wrong with Cam and Tuitt. You can't have $23m tied up in those two guys, and not be able to trot out a guy like Hargrave, and still be good. If they need Poe, then they need to seriously consider dumping one of those guys!

As for Joyner, I feel like he is a similar minded guy as Mitchell, and I don't think we need that. We have this forward-moving, punch them in the mouth guys, but I feel like we need 1 or 2 guys out there who think a little differently.

Slapstick
02-11-2018, 04:37 PM
They reworked Tuitt and DeCastro so that they could tag Bell, in the event that they can’t come to a long term agreement...free agency will require other moves...

Iron City Inc.
02-11-2018, 06:59 PM
Joyner would be interesting, but Poe is unnecessary. If you gotta go out and get Poe, then something is really wrong with Cam and Tuitt. You can't have $23m tied up in those two guys, and not be able to trot out a guy like Hargrave, and still be good. If they need Poe, then they need to seriously consider dumping one of those guys!

As for Joyner, I feel like he is a similar minded guy as Mitchell, and I don't think we need that. We have this forward-moving, punch them in the mouth guys, but I feel like we need 1 or 2 guys out there who think a little differently.
Getting someone to play a zero is not a reflection on our two good 5 tech's 97 n 91. What I am saying is we could use a 350 lb zero for 1st down , short yardage , goal line , depth. Not a knock on Hargrave but guys get worn down. I believe Poe would be a huge uprgade over Walton n big Dan. Keeping guys fresh upfront is imo a must and going into next season with only 4 solid D linemen gives us almost no margin for error.

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 07:20 PM
It’s not so easy to acquire a RB on the cheap.

If if it was so easy every team would have it.

Every team IS doing it Dizz.

By Bell's standards every team in the league has in fact "acquired a running back on the cheap". :)
THAT is the point.

Slapstick
02-11-2018, 07:32 PM
Getting someone to play a zero is not a reflection on our two good 5 tech's 97 n 91. What I am saying is we could use a 350 lb zero for 1st down , short yardage , goal line , depth. Not a knock on Hargrave but guys get worn down. I believe Poe would be a huge uprgade over Walton n big Dan. Keeping guys fresh upfront is imo a must and going into next season with only 4 solid D linemen gives us almost no margin for error.

Walton does okay...I would consider him a 5th “solid” lineman...you can put him in and the defense doesn’t fall apart....

I do agree that the Steelers will pick up another D lineman at some point...

Captain Lemming
02-11-2018, 08:28 PM
Best Viking team in the over DECADE Adrian Petersen has been in the league?
THIS SEASON with him as a Cardinal.

Can anybody tell me what recent team has had success paying big bucks to a running back?
Marshall Faulk is the last one and he got ONE ring.

He is the last HOF caliber running back to start a SB and get a ring.
My friends that was EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO.

Willie Parker has more rings (2) as a starter than any future HOFer of the era.
Terrell Davis was the last HOFer with 2.
Emmitt Smith is the last HOF caliber running back with more rings than Willie Parker's two.

Legarette Blount has MORE rings than anybody since Emmett Smith.

High paid, elite running backs are simply not a good investment.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-11-2018, 08:42 PM
exactly cap. it's easy to see unless you are just blinded by a love for a player

I just don't think it's fiscally responsible to give bell the type of contract he wants

time will tell

Captain Lemming
02-12-2018, 02:30 AM
If it were still about elite backs Cowboys and Steelers would be battling for championships just like in the 70s.

Captain Lemming
02-12-2018, 05:24 AM
Back on topic, here is an interesting article done before these restructures that says there is a lot more savings to be had.


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2018/2/9/16895806/how-the-steelers-can-manipulate-the-salary-cap-to-free-up-40-million-in-cap-space-kevin-colbert-nfl

Slapstick
02-12-2018, 08:42 AM
I read that as well...

It all depends on how much kicking the proverbial can down the road that the Steelers want to do...

squidkid
02-12-2018, 09:46 AM
the fans that want to 'pay the man' have the same goal as the organization, and that is to compete for the afcn, nothing more

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 09:46 AM
Best Viking team in the over DECADE Adrian Petersen has been in the league?
THIS SEASON with him as a Cardinal.

Can anybody tell me what recent team has had success paying big bucks to a running back?
Marshall Faulk is the last one and he got ONE ring.

He is the last HOF caliber running back to start a SB and get a ring.
My friends that was EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO.

Willie Parker has more rings (2) as a starter than any future HOFer of the era.
Terrell Davis was the last HOFer with 2.
Emmitt Smith is the last HOF caliber running back with more rings than Willie Parker's two.

Legarette Blount has MORE rings than anybody since Emmett Smith.

High paid, elite running backs are simply not a good investment.

Pats great secondary just got carved up by a back up QB.

Should we we get rid of Ben to win a SB next year? Should the Eagles move on from Carson Wentz? No. You keep the guys who give you the best chance to win.

You draft the best players and you try to win with them. Period. I don’t care how many rings Willie Parker has or Emitt or whoever.

Every SB team and scenario is different and every year folks use the SB winner as the example of what to carbon copy. You just tapped about the Pats secondary and look at how that worked out for them when it mattered the most.

We we picked up Haden and still have up 37 points to Bortles. If not for our Ben, AB and Bell we wouldn’t have been anywhere close to winning that game.

It it has nothing to do with how much we pay players and has everything to do with how they perform once they are on the field at crunch time.

squidkid
02-12-2018, 09:50 AM
and exactly how has bell been at crunch time?

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 10:29 AM
and exactly how has bell been at crunch time?

Hes been great.

How has Tuitt, Hayward, Hargrove, Davis, Burns, Watt and Dupree been at crunch time?

squidkid
02-12-2018, 12:18 PM
Hes been great.

How has Tuitt, Hayward, Hargrove, Davis, Burns, Watt and Dupree been at crunch time?

great?
you think his playoff production in 14, 15 and 16 were great?

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 12:22 PM
great?
you think his playoff production in 14, 15 and 16 were great?

2 years ago he broke damn near every Steeler playoff rushing record in the playoffs.

This year we road him to a bye and he had 2 TD's and 155 yards on the ground and in the air.

That's great to me.

The years he missed the playoffs we suffered. We are better with him than without him.

FACTS!!!

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 12:24 PM
Back on topic, here is an interesting article done before these restructures that says there is a lot more savings to be had.


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2018/2/9/16895806/how-the-steelers-can-manipulate-the-salary-cap-to-free-up-40-million-in-cap-space-kevin-colbert-nfl

not sure if those rankings mean anything but Haden was ranked #51? If so his contract definitely needs to be restructured. He is good but he isn't THAT good and still struggles a bit in zone.

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 12:25 PM
While I am on your side in this debate, looking at the timing of the restructurings, leads me to think the plan is to do a deal term deal with Bell.

I will say this people. We can restructure all we want, but 14 mil is 14 mil that is not available. It may be the difference between getting adequate help versus elite talent on the defensive side, or more than one FA acquisition.

As far as running back? Eagles just scored more in their 1st SB than we have in 8 tries. Their backs ran for considerably more than ours did over the season. Not just more attempts, more yards per attempt (by a wide margin).

Bell is a rare talent true. How hard is it to get the Eagles caliber running backs?


Blount was a dirt cheap free agent and Philly got Ajayi from the fins for a ham sandwich and a bag of chips!!!

Their TOTAL cap hit for TWO SB caliber running backs......LESS THAN 2 MILLION!!!

ANYBODY IN THE LEAGUE could have gotten BOTH guys.

This is the point.

Why pay a guy WAY in excess of the market, when it is SO EASY to acquire running back talent on the cheap?

And before any of you start talking "Nick Foles" was cheap too.....he was an anomaly.
Franchise QBs are the norm...pay them.

Steelers, Patriots, Niners, Cowboys.

Those are the only FRANCHISES with more rings than Legarette Blount.



I agree with you Captain.

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 12:31 PM
Best Viking team in the over DECADE Adrian Petersen has been in the league?
THIS SEASON with him as a Cardinal.

Can anybody tell me what recent team has had success paying big bucks to a running back?
Marshall Faulk is the last one and he got ONE ring.

He is the last HOF caliber running back to start a SB and get a ring.
My friends that was EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO.

Willie Parker has more rings (2) as a starter than any future HOFer of the era.
Terrell Davis was the last HOFer with 2.
Emmitt Smith is the last HOF caliber running back with more rings than Willie Parker's two.

Legarette Blount has MORE rings than anybody since Emmett Smith.

High paid, elite running backs are simply not a good investment.

That's why I'm ready to look at Carlos Hyde and consider him a real option for us. I want to use that money on our defense to seriously take it up a notch or two in talent.

The runningback position has been devalued the last 8 years. Yes, I like Bell too but not at the expense of not upgrading this defense to where it needs to be for us to win a Super Bowl.

Northern_Blitz
02-12-2018, 12:43 PM
2 years ago he broke damn near every Steeler playoff rushing record in the playoffs.

This year we road him to a bye and he had 2 TD's and 155 yards on the ground and in the air.

That's great to me.

The years he missed the playoffs we suffered. We are better with him than without him.

FACTS!!!



I think that it's debatable that we're better with him than without him. Or at least that we wouldn't be better spending the money on a pair of average complementary backs and putting the salary cap savings into the D.

When Bell was out, the drop off in play really depended who we replaced him with.
1) When we replaced Bell with a competent NFL back, Williams led the league in rushing in the period in which he was a starter.
2) When we replaced Bell with borderline NFL players, Josh Harris / Ben Tate / Dri Archer / Fitz Toussant / J. Todman were all generally bad.

If we got rid of Bell, I think it's very likely that we would replace him with a back (or group of backs) who were closer in ability to Williams than (Harriss / Tate / Archer / Toussant / Todman).

In other words, I think that our passing attack + OL would allow an average NFL RB to post above average numbers. If they do that at an average salary, we save a ton of money that we can sink into the D to try to shore up a clear weakness. But when you replace a star with a guy who could just as easily be on the street, results will usually be bad (see: Spence, Sean).

Aside: I don't believe in "clutch performance". Players are good or bad. They have some average level of play and some variance. Sometimes, they get very good or very bad games in the playoffs and sometimes they don't. Since there are so few playoff games, I think that "clutch performance" is more about "getting lucky in a game that mattered more".

squidkid
02-12-2018, 12:45 PM
2 years ago he broke damn near every Steeler playoff rushing record in the playoffs.

This year we road him to a bye and he had 2 TD's and 155 yards on the ground and in the air.

That's great to me.

The years he missed the playoffs we suffered. We are better with him than without him.

FACTS!!!


2017 155 total yards 2 tds in 1 game
2016 360 total yards and 2 tds in 3 games
2015 0 yards and 0 tds in 2 games
2014 0 yards and 0 tds in 1 game

so bell has 515 yards and 4 tds in 7 playoff(crunch time) games .
which average 73 yards and .57 tds per game.
those are FACTS
doesnt sound like a rb worth 15 million per year to me.

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 01:15 PM
I think that it's debatable that we're better with him than without him. Or at least that we wouldn't be better spending the money on a pair of average complementary backs and putting the salary cap savings into the D.

When Bell was out, the drop off in play really depended who we replaced him with.
1) When we replaced Bell with a competent NFL back, Williams led the league in rushing in the period in which he was a starter.
2) When we replaced Bell with borderline NFL players, Josh Harris / Ben Tate / Dri Archer / Fitz Toussant / J. Todman were all generally bad.

If we got rid of Bell, I think it's very likely that we would replace him with a back (or group of backs) who were closer in ability to Williams than (Harriss / Tate / Archer / Toussant / Todman).

In other words, I think that our passing attack + OL would allow an average NFL RB to post above average numbers. If they do that at an average salary, we save a ton of money that we can sink into the D to try to shore up a clear weakness. But when you replace a star with a guy who could just as easily be on the street, results will usually be bad (see: Spence, Sean).

Aside: I don't believe in "clutch performance". Players are good or bad. They have some average level of play and some variance. Sometimes, they get very good or very bad games in the playoffs and sometimes they don't. Since there are so few playoff games, I think that "clutch performance" is more about "getting lucky in a game that mattered more".

I disagree. One thing I noticed about most of our playoff collapses is players tend to show up or disappear when the lights are on. The more pressure there is the more chances there are for a player to make a huge gaffe or miss their assignments.

Our loss to the Jags wasn't due to lluck. We were soundly beat on defense and guys were out of place and missing assingments.

Northern_Blitz
02-12-2018, 01:40 PM
I disagree. One thing I noticed about most of our playoff collapses is players tend to show up or disappear when the lights are on. The more pressure there is the more chances there are for a player to make a huge gaffe or miss their assignments.

Our loss to the Jags wasn't due to lluck. We were soundly beat on defense and guys were out of place and missing assingments.

I agree that our loss to the Jags wasn't due to luck. But, I also think it wasn't due to lack of "clutch". Instead, it was due to lack of skill on D.

Against the Jags our D was bad...much worse than in the regular season. I think most of that is because we had a guy on our team that shouldn't have been playing in the NFL (and wasn't two months earlier). I also think that we tried to build our D to match up against the Pats and played their opposite in the Jags (who match up well against us like we match up well against the Chiefs).

On offense we played way better against the Jags in the playoffs...so those guys must be clutch. At least this year they were clutch. Last year they were not clutch...at least against the Pats. They were clutch against the Dolphins last year in the playoffs. So, if being clutch is a personality trait and they can be clutch in the playoffs, why aren't they clutch all the time? I think it's because "clutch" is just a narrative we give good players who played well in a big game. It's not predictive, it's descriptive of previous results.

I think the Ben is a good example of this. Remember when he was new in the league and he'd engineered a ton of 4th Q comebacks? He was billed as being super clutch. But, as he played more games he didn't keep the same rate of 4th Q comebacks. I don't think that's because he ran out of pixie dust. Instead, Ihe's a very good QB who flipped heads a bunch of times in a row early in his career. As he flipped more coins, he got some tails too. Not a perfect analogy because a good player "flips heads" more than 50% of the time. Good players will look more clutch because they are likely to get good results in all situations and we remember the big moments more.

TLDR: The D was bad after 50 got hurt. The problem is that Spence is bad, not that he's not clutch. I think that the O is very good, but they sometimes have bad games. Sometimes the bad games are in the regular season (Jags this year). Sometimes they are in the playoffs (Pats last year).

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 02:01 PM
The defense was so bad.........

Look at the last three drives by the Jags. Made Bortles look like Brady. You stop two out of the three drives, we move on to the AFC championship game. That's where the game was really loss. Not earlier by Ben's fumble. Bortles could only muster one TD drive against Buffalo for an entire game the week before!!!! He scored 17 points on us in the final three drives of the 4th quarter. That's all on our defense. Point blank.

Shawn
02-12-2018, 02:09 PM
not sure if those rankings mean anything but Haden was ranked #51? If so his contract definitely needs to be restructured. He is good but he isn't THAT good and still struggles a bit in zone. What's even more sad? That Haden was ranked #51 and he is clearly the best DB on this team.

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 02:56 PM
What's even more sad? That Haden was ranked #51 and he is clearly the best DB on this team.

Boom..........................

Slapstick
02-12-2018, 03:24 PM
What's even more sad? That Haden was ranked #51 and he is clearly the best DB on this team.

Well, you canít have it both ways...

PFF ranked Artie Burns higher!​

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 03:55 PM
That's why I'm ready to look at Carlos Hyde and consider him a real option for us. I want to use that money on our defense to seriously take it up a notch or two in talent.

The runningback position has been devalued the last 8 years. Yes, I like Bell too but not at the expense of not upgrading this defense to where it needs to be for us to win a Super Bowl.

I disagree. We just watched Gurley put the Rams on his back.

Fournette was drafted top 5 and ran to an AFCCG in his rookie year.

Zeke had a beast beast of a rookie season and should be back for 16 games. He ran all over us 2 years ago. He never should have been suspended either. They looked terrible without him.

McCaffrey was drafted 8th and had 100 catches.

Kareem Hunt had an amazing year.

Now on I know some will say itís proof there is a ton of talent at RB for for every one of these guys there were 5 others who didnít pan out.

RB position is actually trending upwards. We are seeing a rennassaince (pc) at the RB position.

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 03:56 PM
Well, you can’t have it both ways...

PFF ranked Artie Burns higher!​


Those rankings are so odd. I prefer the eye test.

Slapstick
02-12-2018, 04:19 PM
Those rankings are so odd. I prefer the eye test.

Those rankings are the eye test...they just watch individual players on each play and mark whether they were successful or not...

Captain Lemming
02-12-2018, 04:23 PM
Pats great secondary just got carved up by a back up QB.

Should we we get rid of Ben to win a SB next year? Should the Eagles move on from Carson Wentz? No. You keep the guys who give you the best chance to win.

You draft the best players and you try to win with them. Period. I don’t care how many rings Willie Parker has or Emitt or whoever.

Every SB team and scenario is different and every year folks use the SB winner as the example of what to carbon copy. You just tapped about the Pats secondary and look at how that worked out for them when it mattered the most.

We we picked up Haden and still have up 37 points to Bortles. If not for our Ben, AB and Bell we wouldn’t have been anywhere close to winning that game.

It it has nothing to do with how much we pay players and has everything to do with how they perform once they are on the field at crunch time.

From another thread:
14 out of the last 15 Super Bowls, the AFC team was quarterbacked by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Ben Roethlisberger.

3 HOF QBs......FOURTEEN Super Bowls!

THAT is why you pay Ben. Share with me anything close to the successs in recent yeqrs with great runningbacks.

Northern_Blitz
02-12-2018, 04:51 PM
I disagree. We just watched Gurley put the Rams on his back.

Fournette was drafted top 5 and ran to an AFCCG in his rookie year.

Zeke had a beast beast of a rookie season and should be back for 16 games. He ran all over us 2 years ago. He never should have been suspended either. They looked terrible without him.

McCaffrey was drafted 8th and had 100 catches.

Kareem Hunt had an amazing year.

Now on I know some will say it’s proof there is a ton of talent at RB for for every one of these guys there were 5 others who didn’t pan out.

RB position is actually trending upwards. We are seeing a rennassaince (pc) at the RB position.

I don't think the question is:
1) Is Bell very good? or
2) Are running back important?

I think that the question is:
3) In a salary cap league, can you have a successful team if you sign a long term deal with a player at any position that pays him twice as much as the second highest player at that same position?

Bell is good. Running backs are important. But, breaking the market for any position will likely result in you having to underpay the rest of your team (and reap the under-performance there)

The only positions it may be possible for are positions like kicker, punter, and long snapper where the salaries are low enough that it doesn't really matter.

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 05:40 PM
I don't think the question is:
1) Is Bell very good? or
2) Are running back important?

I think that the question is:
3) In a salary cap league, can you have a successful team if you sign a long term deal with a player at any position that pays him twice as much as the second highest player at that same position?

Bell is good. Running backs are important. But, breaking the market for any position will likely result in you having to underpay the rest of your team (and reap the under-performance there)

The only positions it may be possible for are positions like kicker, punter, and long snapper where the salaries are low enough that it doesn't really matter.

Exactly. ..........................

Steelerphile
02-12-2018, 05:45 PM
IMO if they give Bell pretty much what he asks for, A $15 m + yearly salary for a long time, which leaves them cash strapped and unable to sign a big time talent on defense, I don't think it is a smart business decision. AS has been pointed out, there are rookies drafted at RB every year who can be factors and who won't make anywhere near that much. Team up a guy like that with Conner and I think the Steelers would go from the 20th best running team in the NFL to something better.

I think it is a solely a sentimental decision to salve Bell's ego and give him that much. And may have detrimental consequences long term.

Oviedo
02-12-2018, 05:50 PM
I disagree. We just watched Gurley put the Rams on his back.

Fournette was drafted top 5 and ran to an AFCCG in his rookie year.

Zeke had a beast beast of a rookie season and should be back for 16 games. He ran all over us 2 years ago. He never should have been suspended either. They looked terrible without him.

McCaffrey was drafted 8th and had 100 catches.

Kareem Hunt had an amazing year.

Now on I know some will say itís proof there is a ton of talent at RB for for every one of these guys there were 5 others who didnít pan out.

RB position is actually trending upwards. We are seeing a rennassaince (pc) at the RB position.

Note where all those guys were grabbed in the draft...pretty high.

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 06:38 PM
IMO if they give Bell pretty much what he asks for, A $15 m + yearly salary for a long time, which leaves them cash strapped and unable to sign a big time talent on defense, I don't think it is a smart business decision. AS has been pointed out, there are rookies drafted at RB every year who can be factors and who won't make anywhere near that much. Team up a guy like that with Conner and I think the Steelers would go from the 20th best running team in the NFL to something better.

I think it is a solely a sentimental decision to salve Bell's ego and give him that much. And may have detrimental consequences long term.

Of course ego is involved in negotiations. The RB position didnt have dynamic guys like these recent RB's. Teams were able to devalue the position because the talent wasn't there. These last few years we have seen a resurgence of talented RB's. You aren't going to have a 3 down RB who is responsible for 40% of the offense and stay at 8 million.

The Steelers recognize that and hopefully we come up with a contract that both sides can agree on..

Eddie Spaghetti
02-12-2018, 07:02 PM
there have always been talented RBs. that narrative holds zero truth. RBs don't get paid as much because they have a short shelf life

paying bell anywhere close to 15 million a year will severely limit their ability to try and fix this defense which is where the teams problems lie. as long a Ben is playing the offense will be fine as much as you hate to admit that

Steel Maniac
02-12-2018, 07:43 PM
there have always been talented RBs. that narrative holds zero truth. RBs don't get paid as much because they have a short shelf life

paying bell anywhere close to 15 million a year will severely limit their ability to try and fix this defense which is where the teams problems lie. as long a Ben is playing the offense will be fine as much as you hate to admit that

I'm sorry but I'm saving that money for a serious defensive upgrade.

pittpete
02-12-2018, 09:56 PM
2017 155 total yards 2 tds in 1 game
2016 360 total yards and 2 tds in 3 games
2015 0 yards and 0 tds in 2 games
2014 0 yards and 0 tds in 1 game

so bell has 515 yards and 4 tds in 7 playoff(crunch time) games .
which average 73 yards and .57 tds per game.
those are FACTS
doesnt sound like a rb worth 15 million per year to me.

You cant count a game that he missed due to injury you nutjob...LOL
If they can sign Bell to a long contract w/o breaking the bank then we're a better team for it.
If we have to franchise this dope again, it's going to hurt us.

feltdizz
02-12-2018, 10:56 PM
there have always been talented RBs. that narrative holds zero truth. RBs don't get paid as much because they have a short shelf life

paying bell anywhere close to 15 million a year will severely limit their ability to try and fix this defense which is where the teams problems lie. as long a Ben is playing the offense will be fine as much as you hate to admit that

I swear sometimes you disagree just to do it.

2011. Mark Ingram went 28th.

2012. One RB in the top 10 (Trent Richardson) and he was a bust.

2013. No RB in the first round
2014. No RB in the first round.

2015. Todd Gurley top 10
2016. Zeke top 5
2017. Fournette top 5. McCaffrey top 10.

It’s right there if you don’t believe me. Teams are starting to pick RB’s earlier because there is more talent these last few years.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-12-2018, 11:12 PM
talented RBs come along every year, you just can't admit that

whether or not they go in the 1st means nothing

your man crush was had in the 2nd, remember?

fournette and mccaffery went top 10 and finished behind a couple of 3rd rounders in ROY voting

Captain Lemming
02-12-2018, 11:38 PM
Of course ego is involved in negotiations. The RB position didnt have dynamic guys like these recent RB's. Teams were able to devalue the position because the talent wasn't there. These last few years we have seen a resurgence of talented RB's. You aren't going to have a 3 down RB who is responsible for 40% of the offense and stay at 8 million.

The Steelers recognize that and hopefully we come up with a contract that both sides can agree on..

Adrian Peterson who preceded Bell and the "new runningbacks" in his prime was a MUCH more dynamic presence than any current back. And he go paid like it. The Vivkings are currently better than any team he played on.

Captain Lemming
02-12-2018, 11:47 PM
I swear sometimes you disagree just to do it.

2011. Mark Ingram went 28th.

2012. One RB in the top 10 (Trent Richardson) and he was a bust.

2013. No RB in the first round
2014. No RB in the first round.

2015. Todd Gurley top 10
2016. Zeke top 5
2017. Fournette top 5. McCaffrey top 10.

It’s right there if you don’t believe me. Teams are starting to pick RB’s earlier because there is more talent these last few years.

Rookie Runningbacks are a great value. They literally "hit the ground running". They don't tend to have a long learning curve.
A veteran runningback is the easiest position to replace with a rookie, with the least drop off.

A first for a runningback is very smart, great value, after his rookie deal let him be someone elses problem and draft a kid again.

You make my case Dizz

Drafting a rookie in the first is so smart........I hope we shore up the holes on defense with Bells money and DRAFT BA-rb in the first. :)

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 12:20 AM
talented RBs come along every year, you just can't admit that

whether or not they go in the 1st means nothing

your man crush was had in the 2nd, remember?

fournette and mccaffery went top 10 and finished behind a couple of 3rd rounders in ROY voting

Going on the first definitely means something. Teams are putting lore value on the position when they draft RB’s in the top 10.

The term “lack of talented RB’s the last few years” doesn’t mean no one was talented. It means there wasn’t an Adrian Peterson/Tomlinson type RB which is why the market has been stagnant the last few years.

Now that Zeke. Gurley, Fournette and Bell are the focal points of the offense one should expect the market to correct itself.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 12:30 AM
Adrian Peterson who preceded Bell and the "new runningbacks" in his prime was a MUCH more dynamic presence than any current back. And he go paid like it. The Vivkings are currently better than any team he played on.

Thats a lie. The 2009 team was better. They lost to the Saints 28 to 31.

It it took a miracle and an amazing whiff by the Saints to win that game this year. They also got blown out in Philly.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 09:02 AM
You cant count a game that he missed due to injury you nutjob...LOL
If they can sign Bell to a long contract w/o breaking the bank then we're a better team for it.
If we have to franchise this dope again, it's going to hurt us.


why cant i?
is your corvette a great car if it has a history of breaking down when you need it the most?
is your hot ass wife worth keeping if she only cheats on you 3 days a week but is faithful the other 4?
bottom line is bell and feltdizz want the steelers to pay him 15+ because they think he cant be replaced. . the reality is bell is a great back when he is on the field but facts show that bell is off the field for 43% of the steelers playoff games. he is also off the field for being a two time loser for substance abuse.
i want bell tagged and then traded or tagged and paid. signing him to a long term contract will be a huge mistake......i guarantee it.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 10:56 AM
Now that Zeke. Gurley, Fournette and Bell are the focal points of the offense one should expect the market to correct itself.

This is the biggest bunch of crap that you've ever said. And that's saying a lot. LOL

The market "isn't going to correct itself". Go look at where we got Bell in the draft. Great runningbacks can be found in the later rounds. And if Bell didn't go through the diet changed that he did in his second year, you wouldn't see the Bell you see today. Remember how big he was when he came out of MIchigan St??

Runningbacks have proven to be found late and subsequently they have been devalued. Their will be no market correction. Thanks to Shanahan in Denver, he showed that if you put together the O-line, any good runningback will then look great.

We don't need to give Bell a long term deal. I wouldn't. I'd even consider getting Carlos Hyde and we could pay him half (5-7 mil) and still have some coin left over to address the defense.

I'm hoping the Rooneys are stalling. I hope they tag him and then stall it out all the way until the draft and then after that, we see how were looking.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 12:54 PM
This is the biggest bunch of crap that you've ever said. And that's saying a lot. LOL

The market "isn't going to correct itself". Go look at where we got Bell in the draft. Great runningbacks can be found in the later rounds. And if Bell didn't go through the diet changed that he did in his second year, you wouldn't see the Bell you see today. Remember how big he was when he came out of MIchigan St??

Runningbacks have proven to be found late and subsequently they have been devalued. Their will be no market correction. Thanks to Shanahan in Denver, he showed that if you put together the O-line, any good runningback will then look great.

We don't need to give Bell a long term deal. I wouldn't. I'd even consider getting Carlos Hyde and we could pay him half (5-7 mil) and still have some coin left over to address the defense.

I'm hoping the Rooneys are stalling. I hope they tag him and then stall it out all the way until the draft and then after that, we see how were looking.

Huh? We just paid Bell 12 mill.

We just tried to sign Bell for 12 mill a year but I think the guaranteed numbers are the reason he didnít sign.

Thatís a market correction my friend.

The RB salary has been stagnant for years.

Its like you guys arenít paying attention. Before we offered Bell a contract most folks werenít thinking anywhere close to 12 mill per year.

..and what does Bell losing weight have to do with this convo? What a weird thing to point out. Regardless, I think you were the one who swears Tomlin would be fired next year if we didnít make a SB and Art has already laughed at that notion.

Art also says says he wants to sign Bell so we shall see. I think Iím more right than wrong based on last year and this offseason.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 01:07 PM
Let me add that even I was shocked at the numbers we offered Bell. I expected 10 mill per season. I didn’t expect 12 mill.

But I have always said Bell deserved big money and would get a nice contract offer and folks said I was dead wrong.

Just sayin’

I

Captain Lemming
02-13-2018, 01:37 PM
Let me add that even I was shocked at the numbers we offered Bell. I expected 10 mill per season. I didnít expect 12 mill.

But I have always said Bell deserved big money and would get a nice contract offer and folks said I was dead wrong.

Just sayiní

I

"Just sayin" pay him whatever he wants.......no matter how outrageous. :)

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 01:45 PM
Huh? We just paid Bell 12 mill.

We just tried to sign Bell for 12 mill a year but I think the guaranteed numbers are the reason he didn’t sign.

That’s a market correction my friend.

The RB salary has been stagnant for years.

Its like you guys aren’t paying attention. Before we offered Bell a contract most folks weren’t thinking anywhere close to 12 mill per year.

..and what does Bell losing weight have to do with this convo? What a weird thing to point out. Regardless, I think you were the one who swears Tomlin would be fired next year if we didn’t make a SB and Art has already laughed at that notion.

Art also says says he wants to sign Bell so we shall see. I think I’m more right than wrong based on last year and this offseason.

Huh?? Bell got tagged. And he was offered big money but he turned it down. Even LeSean McCoy told him he should have taken that deal based on what the market is (was). But just because ONE guy got offered that does not make it a "market correction". LMFAO!!

Rooney did just say he wants to do something long term with Bell. I'm just hoping that he looks at all options before that happens, if it happens.

In regards to Bell being heavier, in college he was a much bigger runningback and thats how he was projected coming into the pros but when he dropped weight, he became faster and much more elusive. Nobody saw him being that type of RB coming out of college.

And Rooney DID NOT say Tomlin wouldn't ever be fired. He said he wouldn't be fired for this coming season. Stop making up stuff. LOL

Slapstick
02-13-2018, 02:30 PM
Huh?? Bell got tagged. And he was offered big money but he turned it down. Even LeSean McCoy told him he should have taken that deal based on what the market is (was). But just because ONE guy got offered that does not make it a "market correction". LMFAO!!

Rooney did just say he wants to do something long term with Bell. I'm just hoping that he looks at all options before that happens, if it happens.

In regards to Bell being heavier, in college he was a much bigger runningback and thats how he was projected coming into the pros but when he dropped weight, he became faster and much more elusive. Nobody saw him being that type of RB coming out of college.

And Rooney DID NOT say Tomlin wouldn't ever be fired. He said he wouldn't be fired for this coming season. Stop making up stuff. LOL

He isn’t making stuff up. You did say multiple times that Tomlin would be fired if the Steelers didn’t make the SB next year...

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 02:35 PM
He isn’t making stuff up. You did say multiple times that Tomlin would be fired if the Steelers didn’t make the SB next year...

I stick by that part ; and he will. If Tomlin flames out again, it will be bye bye time for him. But not this year. A lot will happen between here and then that will change your tune.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 02:53 PM
Huh?? Bell got tagged. And he was offered big money but he turned it down. Even LeSean McCoy told him he should have taken that deal based on what the market is (was). But just because ONE guy got offered that does not make it a "market correction". LMFAO!!

Rooney did just say he wants to do something long term with Bell. I'm just hoping that he looks at all options before that happens, if it happens.

In regards to Bell being heavier, in college he was a much bigger runningback and thats how he was projected coming into the pros but when he dropped weight, he became faster and much more elusive. Nobody saw him being that type of RB coming out of college.

And Rooney DID NOT say Tomlin wouldn't ever be fired. He said he wouldn't be fired for this coming season. Stop making up stuff. LOL

Rooney laughed when he was asked about the minority owners letter. When did I say he would never be fired? You promised NEXT season if he doesn't make a SB or has another collapse like this year he will be gone. Art said this: Art Rooney II praises Tomlin. “It’s always easy for people to say, well, you know, you should get rid of your coach. OK, well, who are you hiring next?...I’m very comfortable Mike is our coach and happy he’s our coach. I think he’s one of the best coaches in the NFL.”

and Shady said Bell should have taken the deal because it would have changed the market for RB's. That is considered a market correction since the RB position has been stagnant for years. If Bell had taken that deal it would reset the market for RB's. That's how the NFL has always worked.

Who cares what Bell weighed in college. Plenty of great college RB's flop in the NFL. Bell has become the best all around back in the league and will be paid accordingly.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 02:57 PM
"Just sayin" pay him whatever he wants.......no matter how outrageous. :)

within reason.. yes. If Heyward can make 10 mill a year then Bell damn sure should make 12 to 15 per year. Cam doesn't have anywhere near the impact Bell has on the field IMO.

and I like Cam.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 02:58 PM
I stick by that part ; and he will. If Tomlin flames out again, it will be bye bye time for him. But not this year. A lot will happen between here and then that will change your tune.

and you stick by it because??

Seems like this is something you WANT and isn't based on any factual information. The owner straight up clowned the minority owners letter to the press yet you think they have some type of power?

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:07 PM
Rooney laughed when he was asked about the minority owners letter. When did I say he would never be fired? You promised NEXT season if he doesn't make a SB or has another collapse like this year he will be gone. Art said this: Art Rooney II praises Tomlin. ďItís always easy for people to say, well, you know, you should get rid of your coach. OK, well, who are you hiring next?...Iím very comfortable Mike is our coach and happy heís our coach. I think heís one of the best coaches in the NFL.Ē

and Shady said Bell should have taken the deal because it would have changed the market for RB's. That is considered a market correction since the RB position has been stagnant for years. If Bell had taken that deal it would reset the market for RB's. That's how the NFL has always worked.

Who cares what Bell weighed in college. Plenty of great college RB's flop in the NFL. Bell has become the best all around back in the league and will be paid accordingly.


Feltz, I read all that. And what is he suppose to say? " Yeah he flopped the last six years and he's on the hot seat.??"

Feltz, I'm realizing now that for our team, you don't recognize a , " Vote of Confidence" phrasing means. But in the NFL, owners do that all the time and then not to long thereafter a coach gets whacked. But I understand why you feel the way you feel.

I just don't agree with it because we've all seen the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" statement by owners.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:09 PM
And Bell is going to get paid accordingly because he is a top runningback in the NFL. He'll get paid by somebody. No doubt.

Feltz, are you saying that regardless of Bell's signing that we are going to upgrade the defense significantly to reach a Super Bowl?

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 03:14 PM
Feltz, I read all that. And what is he suppose to say? " Yeah he flopped the last six years and he's on the hot seat.??"

Feltz, I'm realizing now that for our team, you don't recognize a , " Vote of Confidence" phrasing means. But in the NFL, owners do that all the time and then not to long thereafter a coach gets whacked. But I understand why you feel the way you feel.

I just don't agree with it because we've all seen the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" statement by owners.

OMFG, when have you ever heard the dreaded vote of confidence from a Steeler owner?

This is like Steeler fans who get mad every year when we don't make a big move on the first day of FA. It's like you have no clue how our franchise operates. You must be a new Steeler fan because how many times have we fired a coach?

will have cheerleaders on the side lines next year too?

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 03:18 PM
And Bell is going to get paid accordingly because he is a top runningback in the NFL. He'll get paid by somebody. No doubt.

Feltz, are you saying that regardless of Bell's signing that we are going to upgrade the defense significantly to reach a Super Bowl?

why do you keep asking me the same question? We are always trying to upgrade to make the SB.

I can't guarantee it though, who would?

I think the fact that you keep screaming about a SB shows you think we are close. 13-3 and you are up here screaming about Tomlin being on the hot seat next year. That's not how this works.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:22 PM
OMFG, when have you ever heard the dreaded vote of confidence from a Steeler owner?

This is like Steeler fans who get mad every year when we don't make a big move on the first day of FA. It's like you have no clue how our franchise operates. You must be a new Steeler fan because how many times have we fired a coach?

will have cheerleaders on the side lines next year too?

LMFAO!!

Feltz, I get it now. You feel things are going to run status quo. I get that. I don't think so. I think if Tomlin flames out again, he's gone. And again, this is not about being mad; this is six or more years in the making.

1. Players and coaches out of control ; doing and saying anything regardless of the situation including a head coach who walks on the field to stop a punt return of the Ravens.
3. Losing to more then a few teams that they have no right losing to.
4. A head coach who's specialty was the secondary when promoted to coach but has failed to put together a decent secondary in his coaching tenure.

So those are not based on just one year.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:24 PM
why do you keep asking me the same question? We are always trying to upgrade to make the SB.

I can't guarantee it though, who would?

I think the fact that you keep screaming about a SB shows you think we are close. 13-3 and you are up here screaming about Tomlin being on the hot seat next year. That's not how this works.

13-3, and didn't make the AFC championship game while in the previous year, they did. That's called regression.

When are you going to get that it's not all about the regular season. If you keep failing in the post season, eventually you get called out. It's what you do in the post season that defines a teams greatness. Our greatness is defined by what we've done in the postseason. You can't run from that as much as you try.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:27 PM
So if we go 14-2 or 15-1 and flame out in the second round of the playoffs again, that's good by you? Because it sure isn't good with me.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 03:29 PM
LMFAO!!

Feltz, I get it now. You feel things are going to run status quo. I get that. I don't think so. I think if Tomlin flames out again, he's gone. And again, this is not about being mad; this is six or more years in the making.

1. Players and coaches out of control ; doing and saying anything regardless of the situation including a head coach who walks on the field to stop a punt return of the Ravens.
3. Losing to more then a few teams that they have no right losing to.
4. A head coach who's specialty was the secondary when promoted to coach but has failed to put together a decent secondary in his coaching tenure.

So those are not based on just one year.

1. Players out of control who tweet or FB live.. and smoke weed. Yet we are always in the hunt.
3. This is some nonsense. We don't have a right to beat every team we play. we went 13-3 and you guys cry cause we didn't go 15-1?
4. Yes, that's a problem and hopefully Lake moving on helps fix things.

what happened to 2?

so this is just based on a wish.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 03:31 PM
So if we go 14-2 or 15-1 and flame out in the second round of the playoffs again, that's good by you? Because it sure isn't good with me.

it would be a good regular season and a bad playoff loss.

but it wouldn't be Tomlin's last season.

I don't think Tomlin leaves until he retires like the other 2 coaches. We do things different in Pittsburgh

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:35 PM
Feltz, I get where your coming from. Your believing in status quo. I'm even more familiar in how we've done things then you but I don't stay in the past.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:37 PM
1. Players out of control who tweet or FB live.. and smoke weed. Yet we are always in the hunt.
3. This is some nonsense. We don't have a right to beat every team we play. we went 13-3 and you guys cry cause we didn't go 15-1?
4. Yes, that's a problem and hopefully Lake moving on helps fix things.

what happened to 2?

so this is just based on a wish.

A wish? Look, I've watched this game over 45 years my friend. I know what an owners "vote of confidence" statement is. We've been fortunate not to have ever been down that road but I think were there now based on what Rooney said. But nothing about Tomlin's shortcomings is based on "one year" like you've been trying to say.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 03:40 PM
A wish? Look, I've watched this game over 45 years my friend. I know what an owners "vote of confidence" statement is. We've been fortunate not to have ever been down that road but I think were there now based on what Rooney said. But nothing about Tomlin's shortcomings is based on "one year" like you've been trying to say.

dude, his career is freaking on par with the great HOF coaches. Sure, he doesn't have 6 SB appearances but his winning percentage is insanely high.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 03:53 PM
dude, his career is freaking on par with the great HOF coaches. Sure, he doesn't have 6 SB appearances but his winning percentage is insanely high.

Regular season............................................ ...... I don't care about regular season. We are not defined by regular season. We are ultimately defined by those 6 trophys and what period were those trophies won? Post season.

Slapstick
02-13-2018, 04:05 PM
Regular season............................................ ...... I don't care about regular season. We are not defined by regular season. We are ultimately defined by those 6 trophys and what period were those trophies won? Post season.

He also has as many or more postseason victories over the last three years than any coach not named Belichick...

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 04:07 PM
Regular season............................................ ...... I don't care about regular season. We are not defined by regular season. We are ultimately defined by those 6 trophys and what period were those trophies won? Post season.
He has a SB trophy and is 8-7 in the playoffs.

and you don’t make the playoffs without the regular seasons.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 04:15 PM
He has a SB trophy and is 8-7 in the playoffs.

and you don’t make the playoffs without the regular seasons.

I’m talking trophies ; your talking regular season. When was the last time Tomlin made the Super Bowl with this HOF QB, HOF Wr and the best rb in football? Rest my case.

Slapstick
02-13-2018, 04:17 PM
I’m talking trophies ; your talking regular season. When was the last time Tomlin made the Super Bowl with this HOF QB, HOF Wr and the best rb in football? Rest my case.

He’s not going to be fired next season...give it up....

Only one coach has more trophies than Tomlin....

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 04:26 PM
He’s not going to be fired next season...give it up....

Only one coach has more trophies than Tomlin....

Because Coughlin became a GM. Lol.

If Tomlin flames out again next year, it’s bye bye time for him.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:40 PM
some are satisfied with afcn titles, some want and expect more.
unfortunately for a variety of reasons, tomlin will remain the coach here.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 04:46 PM
I’m talking trophies ; your talking regular season. When was the last time Tomlin made the Super Bowl with this HOF QB, HOF Wr and the best rb in football? Rest my case.

You just responded to a post where I talked about his SB trophy and playoff record.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 04:48 PM
some are satisfied with afcn titles, some want and expect more.
unfortunately for a variety of reasons, tomlin will remain the coach here.

Yes, for the same reasons Cowher and Noll weren’t fired.

We dont fire coaches, especially ones who win more than they lose.

If Tomlin has a few 3 win seasons then maybe he gets fired. We aren’t firing a coach who went 13-3.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:51 PM
He has a SB trophy and is 8-7 in the playoffs.

and you donít make the playoffs without the regular seasons.

yup, 5-3 with a super win and a super bowl loss with cowhers players
and 3-4 with no super bowl appearances with all his own players except ben(which includes the best wr, best rb and top 3 oline in game)

pittpete
02-13-2018, 04:51 PM
why cant i?
is your corvette a great car if it has a history of breaking down when you need it the most?
is your hot ass wife worth keeping if she only cheats on you 3 days a week but is faithful the other 4?
bottom line is bell and feltdizz want the steelers to pay him 15+ because they think he cant be replaced. . the reality is bell is a great back when he is on the field but facts show that bell is off the field for 43% of the steelers playoff games. he is also off the field for being a two time loser for substance abuse.
i want bell tagged and then traded or tagged and paid. signing him to a long term contract will be a huge mistake......i guarantee it.

Bell nor any other RB in the league is worth 15+...
Bell isnt going to get that $$$ from the Steelers and he knows it.
The Steelers organization is too smart for that.
Also your analogies don't make sense...LOL

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:52 PM
Yes, for the same reasons Cowher and Noll weren’t fired.

We dont fire coaches, especially ones who win more than they lose.

If Tomlin has a few 3 win seasons then maybe he gets fired. We aren’t firing a coach who went 13-3.

yup, thats one of the reasons he wont get fired

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 04:52 PM
yup, 5-3 with a super win and a super bowl loss with cowhers players
and 3-4 with no super bowl appearances with all his own players except ben(which includes the best wr, best rb and top 3 oline in game)

Wow. I didn't want to go there because that usually spins into a whole other conversation.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:54 PM
Bell nor any other RB in the league is worth 15+...
Bell isnt going to get that $$$ from the Steelers and he knows it.
The Steelers organization is too smart for that.
Also your analogies don't make sense...LOL


wow, those were pretty simple analogies to comprehend. maybe you dont own a car or have a spouse/significant other. my bad

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:57 PM
Wow. I didn't to go there because that usually spins into a whole other conversation.


the more tomlin puts his stamp on the team, they farther away they get from winning another super bowl.
it should be painfully obvious that tomlin in fact won with cowhers players running the show with him just standing by and cheering

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 04:57 PM
Bell nor any other RB in the league is worth 15+...
Bell isnt going to get that $$$ from the Steelers and he knows it.
The Steelers organization is too smart for that.
Also your analogies don't make sense...LOL

I think he is going to get between 12 to 15 mill. Times are changing. If we were willing to pay 12 mill we will probably find a way to work out the kinks with the guaranteed money.

Ben will probably have no problem taking a little less to keep Bell. I seriously doubt Ben wants to play 3 more years without Bell behind him.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 04:59 PM
I think he is going to get between 12 to 15 mill. Times are changing. If we were willing to pay 12 mill we will probably find a way to work out the kinks with the guaranteed money.

Ben will probably have no problem taking a little less to keep Bell. I seriously doubt Ben wants to play 3 more years without Bell behind him.


why do you think ben should take less and not bell?

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 04:59 PM
Wow. I didn't to go there because that usually spins into a whole other conversation.

Yes, a stupid conversation.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 05:03 PM
Yes, a stupid conversation.


stupid, or the truth?

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 05:03 PM
why do you think ben should take less and not bell?
Because Ben has already made 150 million (no idea, but he has made a lot of money over the years)

Same reason Brady takes a discount.

If Ben tried to get as much as he can on his last contract then I believe all this anger needs to be focused at Ben and not at Bell when it comes to cap space.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 05:05 PM
stupid, or the truth?

stupid, like those analogies you tried to use.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 05:07 PM
Because Ben has already made 150 million.

Same reason Brady takes a discount.

If Ben tried to get as much as he can on his last contract then I believe all this anger needs to be focused at Ben and not at Bell when it comes to cap space.

ben should hold out for as much as he can, you know, to take care of his family
he currectly is playing for a measly above average qb salary, he really should demand 150%+ more than the current highest paid qb

pittpete
02-13-2018, 05:08 PM
Brady takes a discount most likely because he's getting the $$$$ in some other way.

squidkid
02-13-2018, 05:10 PM
stupid, like those analogies you tried to use.


too tough for you to figure out also?

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 05:12 PM
ben should hold out for as much as he can, you know, to take care of his family
he currectly is playing for a measly above average qb salary, he really should demand 150%+ more than the current highest paid qb

It’s a free country. If that’s what he wants to do then so be it.

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 05:16 PM
Cap is going up a bit but I don't know. All I do know is that Bell said he wants between 30-50 mil guaranteed.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-13-2018, 05:23 PM
I'm really shocked that felt thinks Ben should take less money while bell should bleed the steelers for every nickel

shocked I tell you

the hypocrisy is staggering

Steel Maniac
02-13-2018, 05:26 PM
I'm really shocked that felt thinks Ben should take less money while bell should bleed the steelers for every nickel

shocked I tell you

the hypocrisy is staggering

Exactly. But Bell is playing a position that has been devalued and IS devalued. Let's see what Rooney does.

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 06:21 PM
I'm really shocked that felt thinks Ben should take less money while bell should bleed the steelers for every nickel

shocked I tell you

the hypocrisy is staggering

So foolish. I want every player to get as much as possible on their first big contract, within reason of course.

Ben has been paid handsomely.

He is on the the back side of his career. Itís common for a QB like Ben to take a little less as a courtesy to the team to help with the cap.

and a a little less is say 22 to 24 mill per season or something in that range.

Its not hypocrisy. Itís how itís always been done with franchise QBís who want to win a SB and keep his best players around him.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-13-2018, 06:24 PM
spin spin spin

if bell deserves every nickel so does Ben. they play the same game

your hatred of Ben is showing again

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 06:59 PM
spin spin spin

if bell deserves every nickel so does Ben. they play the same game

your hatred of Ben is showing again

Lmao.. your hatred for me has clouded your thoughts.

Ben has every right to demand top dollar. But will he? I doubt it. Why? Because he has already been paid handsomely.

I have no problem with any player trying to get paid.

It’s not hate for Ben. It’s judt common sense. Most QB’s in Ben’s position aren’t going to try and break the bank on their last contract.

Eddie Spaghetti
02-13-2018, 07:07 PM
there you go again thinking people give more than 2 sh!ts about you. very amusing

you are a hypocrite when it comes to bells contract situation and will say anything to defend your position. nothing more, nothing less

it's really not worth anymore of my time engaging you on the subject

feltdizz
02-13-2018, 07:30 PM
there you go again thinking people give more than 2 sh!ts about you. very amusing

you are a hypocrite when it comes to bells contract situation and will say anything to defend your position. nothing more, nothing less

it's really not worth anymore of my time engaging you on the subject

a hypocrite for pointing out the obvious? Lmao.

Everyone tried to get as many dollars as possible on their first contract. It’s RARE for a football player to push for maximum dollars on their LAST contract. Only QB’s who do that are guys like Stafford who never sniff the playoffs.

Smh... it’s hilarious watching you show your ignorance simply because you don’t like me.

There is nothing hypocritical about wanting a football player to get paid top dollar on their first big contract.

I also expect Bell to be moved or take a hometown discount on the last year of his contract for obvious reasons.

squidkid
02-14-2018, 05:09 PM
spin spin spin

if bell deserves every nickel so does Ben. they play the same game

your hatred of Ben is showing again


geez, i wonder why

squidkid
02-14-2018, 05:11 PM
a hypocrite for pointing out the obvious? Lmao.

Everyone tried to get as many dollars as possible on their first contract. It’s RARE for a football player to push for maximum dollars on their LAST contract. Only QB’s who do that are guys like Stafford who never sniff the playoffs.

Smh... it’s hilarious watching you show your ignorance simply because you don’t like me.

There is nothing hypocritical about wanting a football player to get paid top dollar on their first big contract.

I also expect Bell to be moved or take a hometown discount on the last year of his contract for obvious reasons.


he already got more than top dollar for his first contract
he chose a 1 year contract last year

feltdizz
02-15-2018, 11:57 AM
he already got more than top dollar for his first contract
he chose a 1 year contract last year

that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

RuthlessBurgher
02-15-2018, 12:14 PM
that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fossils-archeology/images/2/2c/D1Z-thats-not-how-it-works-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161213024017