Brady is not the goat

[KYPITTFAN]

Brady is now 5 and 3 in the SB. If not for a stupid play call vs the Seahawks he would be 4 and 4. One more note, if Atlanta does not melt down and give up a 21 point second half lead he is 3 and 5 in the SB.
Brady is a great player but 3 and 5 is what he should be in the SB that's not the GOAT!

[CapnCrunch]

And us being 0-3 against him in the afcc doesn't help.

[Captain Lemming]

Brady is now 5 and 3 in the SB. If not for a stupid play call vs the Seahawks he would be 4 and 4. One more note, if Atlanta does not melt down and give up a 21 point second half lead he is 3 and 5 in the SB.
Brady is a great player but 3 and 5 is what he should be in the SB that's not the GOAT!

You do realize defense is a part of the reason a team "wins" or loses right?
He had 500 plus yards, 3 TDs, zero picks, and scored 34 in a "loss" right?

Do you realize that NO TEAM HAS EVER SCORED 35 against Ben his entire playoff career......TWENTY STRAIGHT GAMES until Jax this season?
In other words, if Ben did what Brady just did.......he would not had a single playoff loss against those teams until 2018!!!

The scariest thing was that stinking "hail mary" was SO CLOSE to being caught. It was a perfectly executed hail Mary pass.

You know you can "what if" those Giant loses into victories too. Could have been 7-1 in SBs.

"What if" JH does not make a most improbable 99 yard pick 6 on a play he was supposed to be rushing the passer? That play was "at least" a 10 point swing as we had field goal range. Quite possibly a 14 point swing. On a game we BARELY won.

Ben "could be" 1-2 in SBs. His ONE victory......being his worst SB performance.

What if Jackie Smith makes the easiest of catches, or Swannie doesnt get an EXTREMELY questionable pi call BOTH is the same nail biter game against the Cowboys?

Fact is if you judge Brady by rings.....he has the most.

"What ifs" dont matter unless you do that for evrybody.

[squidkid]

brady is the best ever.
how many times was he on the team that had the most talent in those superbowls?

[The Man of Steel]

brady is the best ever.
how many times was he on the team that had the most talent in those superbowls?
Best of his generation yes. He never played QB under pre-1978 rules so you can’t say “best ever.” One could argue that Otto Graham or Johnny Unitas was the GOAT given the ERA they played in was more challenging.

[KYPITTFAN]

And if the tuck rule had not happened Brady would have not gotten to the SB that season. Point is, yes Brady is great but a lot has went his way big games other than the Steelers have not been good to him.


You do realize defense is a part of the reason a team "wins" or loses right?
He had 500 plus yards, 3 TDs, zero picks, and scored 34 in a "loss" right?

Do you realize that NO TEAM HAS EVER SCORED 35 against Ben his entire playoff career......TWENTY STRAIGHT GAMES until Jax this season?
In other words, if Ben did what Brady just did.......he would not had a single playoff loss against those teams until 2018!!!

The scariest thing was that stinking "hail mary" was SO CLOSE to being caught. It was a perfectly executed hail Mary pass.

You know you can "what if" those Giant loses into victories too. Could have been 7-1 in SBs.

"What if" JH does not make a most improbable 99 yard pick 6 on a play he was supposed to be rushing the passer? That play was "at least" a 10 point swing as we had field goal range. Quite possibly a 14 point swing. On a game we BARELY won.

Ben "could be" 1-2 in SBs. His ONE victory......being his worst SB performance.

What if Jackie Smith makes the easiest of catches, or Swannie doesnt get an EXTREMELY questionable pi call BOTH is the same nail biter game against the Cowboys?

Fact is if you judge Brady by rings.....he has the most.

"What ifs" dont matter unless you do that for evrybody.

[feltdizz]

Brady is great...

at cheating

[Steel Maniac]

You do realize defense is a part of the reason a team "wins" or loses right?
He had 500 plus yards, 3 TDs, zero picks, and scored 34 in a "loss" right?

Do you realize that NO TEAM HAS EVER SCORED 35 against Ben his entire playoff career......TWENTY STRAIGHT GAMES until Jax this season?
In other words, if Ben did what Brady just did.......he would not had a single playoff loss against those teams until 2018!!!

The scariest thing was that stinking "hail mary" was SO CLOSE to being caught. It was a perfectly executed hail Mary pass.

You know you can "what if" those Giant loses into victories too. Could have been 7-1 in SBs.

"What if" JH does not make a most improbable 99 yard pick 6 on a play he was supposed to be rushing the passer? That play was "at least" a 10 point swing as we had field goal range. Quite possibly a 14 point swing. On a game we BARELY won.

Ben "could be" 1-2 in SBs. His ONE victory......being his worst SB performance.

What if Jackie Smith makes the easiest of catches, or Swannie doesnt get an EXTREMELY questionable pi call BOTH is the same nail biter game against the Cowboys?

Fact is if you judge Brady by rings.....he has the most.

"What ifs" dont matter unless you do that for evrybody.

Yep..your right Captain. "What if's" goes both ways. Brady has 5 rings. We just have to accept that and move on.

[Steel Maniac]

Brady is great...

at cheating

And at lying about concussions thus, throwing his wife under the bus. That was such a douche bag move by him.

[Steel Maniac]

Best of his generation yes. He never played QB under pre-1978 rules so you can’t say “best ever.” One could argue that Otto Graham or Johnny Unitas was the GOAT given the ERA they played in was more challenging.

I'm sorry but I'm still taking Joe Montana over Brady.

[feltdizz]

I'm sorry but I'm still taking Joe Montana over Brady.

Montana never fumbled or dropped a pass!!!!!

[Steel Maniac]

Montana never lost 3 super bowls either.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Best of his generation yes. He never played QB under pre-1978 rules so you can’t say “best ever.” One could argue that Otto Graham or Johnny Unitas was the GOAT given the ERA they played in was more challenging.
Was looking at the record last night for most yards in a SB... was blown away to see Montana still up there at #4 for playing in THAT era... there's MY GOAT at QB... In the clutch, I'd take him over anybody... ever.

When Brady goes to a midling team like Tampa and makes them an INSTANT contender (see: Montana goes to Chiefs), then, we'll have a discussion.

[Sugar]

Wow, really people?? I'll have to agree with the Captain on this. Brady had a heck of a game last night and was not the reason his team lost. The guy has been the model of sustained excellence over an amazingly long period of time. Let's not be "those" Steelers fans.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Brady was a good QB earlier in his career that was carried by a great defense. Brady eventually evolved into a great QB. I think there were QB's that were just as good as Brady. It's hard to give anyone the GOAT moniker because football is a great team sport.

[Steel Maniac]

Wow, really people?? I'll have to agree with the Captain on this. Brady had a heck of a game last night and was not the reason his team lost. The guy has been the model of sustained excellence over an amazingly long period of time. Let's not be "those" Steelers fans.

Brady was a game manager QB the first 3 Super Bowls they won. Then he became Super Brady afterwards and didn't win another ring for 10 years.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Wow, really people?? I'll have to agree with the Captain on this. Brady had a heck of a game last night and was not the reason his team lost. The guy has been the model of sustained excellence over an amazingly long period of time. Let's not be "those" Steelers fans.
Most aren't saying he's BAD... in fact, most are calling him GREAT... just not the GOAT.

That's being a football fan... it's the same as the MJ vs Kobe vs Lebron debate.

[Sugar]

Most aren't saying he's BAD... in fact, most are calling him GREAT... just not the GOAT.

That's being a football fan... it's the same as the MJ vs Kobe vs Lebron debate.

OK, whatever. I would probably go in the direction of saying that there is no GOAT. If there was, it would probably be Brady. That said, there were years where I would not have taken him over Ben. The OL's that we had wouldn't have gotten Brady killed. That's just to say, it just depends on what you value in a QB.

[Mick'sTeam]

Montana never lost 3 super bowls either.

He never won 5 either.

I hate the Patriots as much as anyone, but Brady is the best I've ever seen. If Brady had the rosters that Montana had, who knows how many SB's he'd have. He's done it for a ridiculous long time with supporting casts that in general do not lend themselves to great teams. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this - and as much as I hate to say it - Brady is the GOAT.

[feltdizz]

He never won 5 either.

I hate the Patriots as much as anyone, but Brady is the best I've ever seen. If Brady had the rosters that Montana had, who knows how many SB's he'd have. He's done it for a ridiculous long time with supporting casts that in general do not lend themselves to great teams. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this - and as much as I hate to say it - Brady is the GOAT.

Did you see Montana play?

I think Brady is the GOAT of the modern era due to the rings but personally I still think Rodgers is a better QB overall.

Also remember the rules are so favorable these days for a QB vs back when Montana was QB.

[Slapstick]

He never won 5 either.

I hate the Patriots as much as anyone, but Brady is the best I've ever seen. If Brady had the rosters that Montana had, who knows how many SB's he'd have. He's done it for a ridiculous long time with supporting casts that in general do not lend themselves to great teams. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this - and as much as I hate to say it - Brady is the GOAT.

Not blasted...

But, Montana did it without cheating...

[Mick'sTeam]

Did you see Montana play?

I think Brady is the GOAT of the modern era due to the rings but personally I still think Rodgers is a better QB overall.

Also remember the rules are so favorable these days for a QB vs back when Montana was QB.

I did see him play, and I'll admit it was during my youth when I may not have understood the game as much, so it's certainly possible that my perspective is somewhat impacted by that. I saw him play with Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig and a cast of others. Aside from Randy Moss one year and Gronk, the mixes of Deion Branch, Wes Welker and all the others don't come close to the teams the 49ers had.

I'm not discounting Montana at all. I knew the rules favoring QB's & cheating arguments would be made, which I understand completely. I'm not sure I've watched a game in the last 15 years in which I thought Brady would lose. He just seems that in control of everything. And while some may hate it - I like his competitive spirit and wish we'd see it more on our sideline.

[feltdizz]

I was young as well but knew Montana was great. I didn’t like those 49er teams but I loved watching Ronny Lott and Roger Craig.

While I definitely think the Pats win because of Brady I also think I have seen enough shenanigans by the refs that made it hard for them to lose most games.

[The Man of Steel]

All of this “GOAT” talk on here makes me wonder if some of the posters on this forum aren’t aware of the fact that the NFL has been in existence for nearly a Century now.

[Ernie]

Best of his generation yes. He never played QB under pre-1978 rules so you can’t say “best ever.” One could argue that Otto Graham or Johnny Unitas was the GOAT given the ERA they played in was more challenging.

In what ways would you say it was a more challenging era than today? Not trying to be a smarta$$.. it's a worthy debate.

[The Man of Steel]

In what ways would you say it was a more challenging era than today? Not trying to be a smarta$$.. it's a worthy debate.
Since 1977 was considered the final season of the so-called “dead ball era” let’s start there and compare it with the 2017 season.
So in 1977 Fran Tarkenton lead the NFL in completion percentage with 60%. In 2017 it was Drew Brees who led with 72%.
In 1977 Joe Ferguson led the NFL with 2,803 passing yards (14 games).
In 2017 it was who led Tom Brady with 4,577 yards.
In 1977 Bob Griese led the NFL with a QBR of 87.8. In 2017 it was Alex Smith leading the league at 104.7.
Also in 1977 Lydell Mitchell led the NFL with 71 receptions. In 2017 it was Jarvis Landry with 112 receptions.

Today’s rules completely favor QB’s and diva WR’s which is why the statistics are so getting more and more extreme now. Put 40 year old Tom Brady in a time machine to 1977 and he probably couldn’t even beat out Steve Grogan for the starting job as the Patriots QB.

[msp26505]

Since 1977 was considered the final season of the so-called “dead ball era” let’s start there and compare it with the 2017 season.
So in 1977 Fran Tarkenton lead the NFL in completion percentage with 60%. In 2017 it was Drew Brees who led with 72%.
In 1977 Joe Ferguson led the NFL with 2,803 passing yards (14 games).
In 2017 it was who led Tom Brady with 4,577 yards.
In 1977 Bob Griese led the NFL with a QBR of 87.8. In 2017 it was Alex Smith leading the league at 104.7.
Also in 1977 Lydell Mitchell led the NFL with 71 receptions. In 2017 it was Jarvis Landry with 112 receptions.

Today’s rules completely favor QB’s and diva WR’s which is why the statistics are so getting more and more extreme now. Put 40 year old Tom Brady in a time machine to 1977 and he probably couldn’t even beat out Steve Grogan for the starting job as the Patriots QB.

I was thinking how interesting it would be to have the 70's Steelers play the current pats* using the 70's rules, and then today's rules.

Playing by the 70's rules...at least pre-1978...Brady, wearing a skirt, would complete about 50% of his passes before being carted off on a stretcher, and the Steelers would win by about 3 TD's despite committing 7 turnovers.

Following the current rules, the Steelers would pick up about 300 yards in penalties, and probably wouldn't have enough eligible players to finish the game, meaning that the pats* would win by about 3 TD's. (Unless Brady, still wearing a skirt, was carted off on a stretcher before picking up 10+ PI penalties.)

[Ernie]

Since 1977 was considered the final season of the so-called “dead ball era” let’s start there and compare it with the 2017 season.
So in 1977 Fran Tarkenton lead the NFL in completion percentage with 60%. In 2017 it was Drew Brees who led with 72%.
In 1977 Joe Ferguson led the NFL with 2,803 passing yards (14 games).
In 2017 it was who led Tom Brady with 4,577 yards.
In 1977 Bob Griese led the NFL with a QBR of 87.8. In 2017 it was Alex Smith leading the league at 104.7.
Also in 1977 Lydell Mitchell led the NFL with 71 receptions. In 2017 it was Jarvis Landry with 112 receptions.

Today’s rules completely favor QB’s and diva WR’s which is why the statistics are so getting more and more extreme now. Put 40 year old Tom Brady in a time machine to 1977 and he probably couldn’t even beat out Steve Grogan for the starting job as the Patriots QB.

These are interesting stats, and are certainly hard to argue with. I guess it all comes down to the definition of "Challenging". In terms of the modern day athlete, versus the athletes of 40+ years ago... obviously today's athletes are much bigger, faster, and stronger. I also believe the coaching is better in today's game (fundamental teachings). So in terms of "Challenging" or "Competitive" from those aspects, I think today's game is much more competitive across the board. Just look at the overall "Parity" in the league today. If you are looking strictly at "The rules"... the Bradshaw/Griese era certainly would have been more challenging... no question about it.

[NorthCoast]

These are interesting stats, and are certainly hard to argue with. I guess it all comes down to the definition of "Challenging". In terms of the modern day athlete, versus the athletes of 40+ years ago... obviously today's athletes are much bigger, faster, and stronger. I also believe the coaching is better in today's game (fundamental teachings). So in terms of "Challenging" or "Competitive" from those aspects, I think today's game is much more competitive across the board. Just look at the overall "Parity" in the league today. If you are looking strictly at "The rules"... the Bradshaw/Griese era certainly would have been more challenging... no question about it.The physicality just isn't in the game as much (or maybe more correctly, the brutality). It would be interesting to speculate whether a modern era QB could ever have a sustained career in the pre-modern era.

[Steel Maniac]

Not blasted...


But, Montana did it without cheating...
Brady’s first 3 rings were cheat rings. So he’s really not all that great

[Ghost]

Not just QBs. It was 1977 when the new “Mel Blount” rule went into effect limiting the touching of WRs within the first 5 yards. Before that guys got manhandled all over the field. Lots of WRs today would fail miserably if not allowed to run free.

[Starlifter]

games change and evolve. all games. NFL, baseball, hockey, etc. So there will always be the problem of comparing one generation to another. So I generally just try to look at the results of the players playing in their generation. In the modern era - brady has been to 8 superbowls. That's 15% of all the superbowls ever played. That statistic alone is simply amazing in this era of parity. So while there can always be a debate about GOAT - I don't believe there can be any doubt about his career, numbers, HOF status etc. He can make his hotel reservations for Canton the day after his retires. The vote will be a formality.

But how lucky are we as steeler fans to know that OUR team has also played in 15% of all superbowls. So between the steelers and the pats over 1/3rd (18 out of 52) of all the superbowls played have included those teams. THAT is also amazing - and great for Steeler fans!

[Mick'sTeam]

games change and evolve. all games. NFL, baseball, hockey, etc. So there will always be the problem of comparing one generation to another. So I generally just try to look at the results of the players playing in their generation. In the modern era - brady has been to 8 superbowls. That's 15% of all the superbowls ever played. That statistic alone is simply amazing in this era of parity. So while there can always be a debate about GOAT - I don't believe there can be any doubt about his career, numbers, HOF status etc. He can make his hotel reservations for Canton the day after his retires. The vote will be a formality.

But how lucky are we as steeler fans to know that OUR team has also played in 15% of all superbowls. So between the steelers and the pats over 1/3rd (18 out of 52) of all the superbowls played have included those teams. THAT is also amazing - and great for Steeler fans!

I agree, very cool that we've played in 15% of SB's. With Brady though, he's played in 45% of the SB's that have happened during his career. THAT is an absurd rate of success.

[Northern_Blitz]

games change and evolve. all games. NFL, baseball, hockey, etc. So there will always be the problem of comparing one generation to another. So I generally just try to look at the results of the players playing in their generation. In the modern era - brady has been to 8 superbowls. That's 15% of all the superbowls ever played. That statistic alone is simply amazing in this era of parity. So while there can always be a debate about GOAT - I don't believe there can be any doubt about his career, numbers, HOF status etc. He can make his hotel reservations for Canton the day after his retires. The vote will be a formality.

But how lucky are we as steeler fans to know that OUR team has also played in 15% of all superbowls. So between the steelers and the pats over 1/3rd (18 out of 52) of all the superbowls played have included those teams. THAT is also amazing - and great for Steeler fans!

Agree that you can't really compare across generations.

I tend to think that the newest generation would almost always dominate over the older generations due to better size / strength / speed as a result of better training methods.

The only possible exception I can think of is Gretzky, who was just absurdly off the charts better than everyone else (I know some here might argue Mario). But even then, I'm pretty sure that Crosby would put up a whole lot of points on the 80s Oilers.

[Ernie]

The physicality just isn't in the game as much (or maybe more correctly, the brutality). It would be interesting to speculate whether a modern era QB could ever have a sustained career in the pre-modern era.

Physicality... No... "Brutality".. very possible... and that is only because of the rules changes to protect players (rightfully so).

[Chadman]

I think we just have to accept that Brady is very, very good on a team, with a HC and system, designed to make him maximize his ability. The Patriots have been ‘great’ for about the length of Brady’s tenure. So acknowledging that he’s probably the most consistently great QB of his era makes sense. It’s just too hard to compare with previous generations. Not only on the field rules have made it a different game, but the ability to switch teams through FA has allowed coaching staff to accumulate players to fit a system designed to maximize abilities more, the Combine gives organizations the opportunity to better evaluate younger talents to fit into a team.

The Patriots, for all of their shadiness, have the greatest ability to accumulate the talent to make key players great, and carry out the HC plans.

what I don’t buy is this belief they are surrounding Brady with ‘lesser talent’. The Patriots do 2 things very well- accumulate high draft picks and sign former high draft picks that washed out of the system from the team that drafted them. They surround the football team with highly rated athletes. They just don’t go out after the bigger flash players so much, if that makes sense.

Whoever is responsible for putting the talent on the playing roster is potentially the best in the business at doing that.

[feltdizz]

I think we just have to accept that Brady is very, very good on a team, with a HC and system, designed to make him maximize his ability. The Patriots have been ‘great’ for about the length of Brady’s tenure. So acknowledging that he’s probably the most consistently great QB of his era makes sense. It’s just too hard to compare with previous generations. Not only on the field rules have made it a different game, but the ability to switch teams through FA has allowed coaching staff to accumulate players to fit a system designed to maximize abilities more, the Combine gives organizations the opportunity to better evaluate younger talents to fit into a team.

The Patriots, for all of their shadiness, have the greatest ability to accumulate the talent to make key players great, and carry out the HC plans.

what I don’t buy is this belief they are surrounding Brady with ‘lesser talent’. The Patriots do 2 things very well- accumulate high draft picks and sign former high draft picks that washed out of the system from the team that drafted them. They surround the football team with highly rated athletes. They just don’t go out after the bigger flash players so much, if that makes sense.

Whoever is responsible for putting the talent on the playing roster is potentially the best in the business at doing that.

great post. I doubt we would ever see Martavis Bryant catching bubble screens in a Pats offense.

[winwithd]

I agree, very cool that we've played in 15% of SB's. With Brady though, he's played in 45% of the SB's that have happened during his career. THAT is an absurd rate of success.

I'm not a Manning fan, but he would have done the same if he had played for the Pats. Drew Brees, Rodgers, Ben, Ryan, even Kirk Cousins could have gotten to that many SB s in the same situation . Cheating, playing for a cheating coach who also is maniacal about preparation, drills his team like military, surrounded by talent every year.

Brady has been fortunate to be the situation he is in.

[RuthlessBurgher]

games change and evolve. all games. NFL, baseball, hockey, etc. So there will always be the problem of comparing one generation to another. So I generally just try to look at the results of the players playing in their generation. In the modern era - brady has been to 8 superbowls. That's 15% of all the superbowls ever played. That statistic alone is simply amazing in this era of parity. So while there can always be a debate about GOAT - I don't believe there can be any doubt about his career, numbers, HOF status etc. He can make his hotel reservations for Canton the day after his retires. The vote will be a formality.

But how lucky are we as steeler fans to know that OUR team has also played in 15% of all superbowls. So between the steelers and the pats over 1/3rd (18 out of 52) of all the superbowls played have included those teams. THAT is also amazing - and great for Steeler fans!

I still think it's crazy that in 14 out of the last 15 Super Bowls, the AFC team was quarterbacked by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Ben Roethlisberger.

[Steel Maniac]

I'm not a Manning fan, but he would have done the same if he had played for the Pats. Drew Brees, Rodgers, Ben, Ryan, even Kirk Cousins could have gotten to that many SB s in the same situation . Cheating, playing for a cheating coach who also is maniacal about preparation, drills his team like military, surrounded by talent every year.

Brady has been fortunate to be the situation he is in.

And that pretty much sums it up. Timing (being lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time) is everything. Because it's not like he set it up to be passed over 5 times before the Patriots took him in the 6th round. He lucked out.

[Northern_Blitz]

And that pretty much sums it up. Timing (being lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time) is everything. Because it's not like he set it up to be passed over 5 times before the Patriots took him in the 6th round. He lucked out.

Why wouldn't you say the same thing about Montanan (who got to play in a revolutionary offense with the GOAT at WR) or Terry (who got to play with the best D of all time in my totally unbiased opinion)?

[Steel Maniac]

Because you can say all those things about Montana up to a point but there are a few things that work in Montana's favor that Brady can't say:

1. Montana never lose a Super Bowl
2. Montana played in an era where there were other dynasties to compete with ( Redskins & Giants)
3. A much tougher brand of football overall.

[Captain Lemming]

Because you can say all those things about Montana up to a point but there are a few things that work in Montana's favor that Brady can't say:
1. Montana never lose a Super Bowl

So NOT MAKING as many Superbowls....losing in the playoffs is somehow BETTER than BOTH playing in far more Superbowls than anybody AND winning more than Montana?
Would he be better this year if he failed to make the Super Bowl, have a all time record performance, with over 500 yards and zero picks just so he DIDNT have another SB blemish?
How many victories does Joe Montana have over a team that scored 42 points? Is it Bradys fault that Nick Foles passing numbers are only surpassed by Brady himself and Kurt Warner?

2. Montana played in an era where there were other dynasties to compete with ( Redskins & Giants)

Do you know why their are no other dynasties? Free agency rips teams apart today. NE should not even be able to be a dynasty today which makes Brady MORE not less impressive. He is literally a one man dynasty. The Niners were LOADED with talent on the level Brady could only dream of.

3. A much tougher brand of football overall.

True, but the as much as we dis Brady for being “soft” Montana was no Ben in the ability to take punishment either. Add to that much bigger faster defenders and it evens out. Bottom line they both read defenses and got the ball out quickly.

[Captain Lemming]

Let me add.....TWO highest scoring 90s Niner teams.........Montana was a Chief.

[Captain Lemming]

While Montana best Young overall as Young choked at times.......The GOAT Niner single season was Steve Young 1994.
Not only did they score more, they AVERAGED 40 plus in the post season.

[Northern_Blitz]

So NOT MAKING as many Superbowls....losing in the playoffs is somehow BETTER than BOTH playing in far more Superbowls than anybody AND winning more than Montana?
Would he be better this year if he failed to make the Super Bowl, have a all time record performance, with over 500 yards and zero picks just so he DIDNT have another SB blemish?
How many victories does Joe Montana have over a team that scored 42 points? Is it Bradys fault that Nick Foles passing numbers are only surpassed by Brady himself and Kurt Warner?


Do you know why their are no other dynasties? Free agency rips teams apart today. NE should not even be able to be a dynasty today which makes Brady MORE not less impressive. He is literally a one man dynasty. The Niners were LOADED with talent on the level Brady could only dream of.


True, but the as much as we dis Brady for being “soft” Montana was no Ben in the ability to take punishment either. Add to that much bigger faster defenders and it evens out. Bottom line they both read defenses and got the ball out quickly.

Beat me too it.

[feltdizz]

Brady is the modern day GOAT but there is a *** next to it.

Just seems like there there is always some cheating or funny business with that team.

[Northern_Blitz]

Brady is the modern day GOAT but there is a *** next to it.

Just seems like there there is always some cheating or funny business with that team.

Remember that there are plenty of folks who think the same thing about the Steelers of the 70s with steroid use.

I don't like the Patriots either. But, I'm done complaining about cheating and fixed games and lucky calls.

I think it's a lot like what you said in another thread:


I hate the Pats* but I also hate how sports always circles back a few weeks after the game to point out a missed call.

Except it's not just missed calls.

[feltdizz]

Remember that there are plenty of folks who think the same thing about the Steelers of the 70s with steroid use.

I don't like the Patriots either. But, I'm done complaining about cheating and fixed games and lucky calls.

I think it's a lot like what you said in another thread:



[/COLOR]Except it's not just missed calls.

I could except that if we were the only ones on roids but who wasn't on roids in the 70's? I think the refs in SB 40 is a better argument. I definitely think we got the benefit of some calls vs Seattle. I'll take them but I'm not one of those fans who can't admit that the refs seemed to favor us a bit in that game.

With the Pats tho...

1. Tuck Rule
2. Spygate.. and the NFL destroyed the tapes. Seems real shady.
3. Then deflategate happened and while I didn't think it was a big deal...Brady destroyed his phone.
4. This year we see some of the most head scratching calls that always seemed to benefit the Pats until the SB. Then you had Collinsworth confused and butt hurt like "why aren't they getting the calls they usually get?"

in closing, this team and owner just feels slimy. Kraft chilling with Goodell at the Rams playoff game during their 1st round bye week? Refs laughing and celebrating with the Pats. Just feels odd IMO.

I definitely think Brady is a beast but I also think he gets more than a bit of help from the NFL because their villain role makes boat loads of cash for the league.

[Slapstick]

There was really only one call that the refs blew in XL...when they called a 15 yard penalty on Hasselbeck during Ike’s INT return...

[feltdizz]

There was really only one call that the refs blew in XL...when they called a 15 yard penalty on Hasselbeck during Ike’s INT return...

The push off on the TD was a play on IMO.

Im glad we won but I felt like that crew was flag happy.

[Slapstick]

The push off on the TD was a play on IMO.

Im glad we won but I felt like that crew was flag happy.

I don't know...to me, it was more than just a brief nudge...Jackson pretty much stiff armed Chris Hope as he cut...full arm extension and everything...

[feltdizz]

I don't know...to me, it was more than just a brief nudge...Jackson pretty much stiff armed Chris Hope as he cut...full arm extension and everything...

nah.. I remember at our SB party, all Steeler fans and most of us were like "whew, I don't know about that one but I will take it!"

I still think we were the better team but man, I've always been one to question NFL refs and that game was a flag fest. I definitely understand why folks yap about that SB.

Flip all those calls and I guarantee we are calling it a conspiracy.

Still glad we won. I didn't drive up to Detroit for nothing!!!

[Slapstick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tlqtif6228&feature=player_embedded

[Captain Lemming]

Brady is the modern day GOAT but there is a *** next to it.

Just seems like there there is always some cheating or funny business with that team.

I can agree with that. I think that is more an issue with the legacy of the team.

We get all excited with Bens drive in the 2008 SB. Montanas come back on the Bengals.

Last season Brady against Falcons was next level clutch drive after drive.

[Steel Maniac]

Brady's first 3 rings were cheat rings. And we are going to have to wait and see which players on these last two rings decides to break code and tell what other type of antics the Patriots did for these last two rings.