Please don't drink the media KoolAid - at least two SBs have **s

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

They got caught cheating twice during their run (spygate, deflategate ... was there a third?). That should never be forgotten. If this were baseball, in a New York minute the coach and the player would have been bounced out of the league (Pete Rose, anyone?).

Never ever let anyone within earshot talk about how good they are without reminding them that they *cheated* to get there.

That is all! :-)

[Eich]

That doesn't make me detest any less, how the Falcons let'em off the hook yesterday.

[pfelix73]

lol, they sure did. Biggest choke I've ever witnessed, and I saw that Buffalo- Houston Oilers game way back when. Funny, how just yesterday, someone posted that classic Eagles Giants game where the Eagles scored 28 points in the final 8 minutes to come back and beat the Giants. But this one..... wow.

[feltdizz]

Oilers choked but they were in Buffalo. How the freak do you let a team score 31 straight points?

How do do you take a sack once in FG range?

[Northern_Blitz]

I hate them too, but I think you're only lying to yourself if you don't admit that they're the best team of all time. Best coach ever. Best QB ever.

They've been the most feared team in the league for almost two decades in an era where achieving consistent success is harder than it's ever been. In that time, their coach / QB have appeared in and won more SBs than anyone ever. Included in those wins is the most dramatic comeback in SB history (more than double the previous record for a SB comeback).

Should they have lost yesterday? Yes. Did they? No. I don't know if any other QB in the league could lead that kind of a come back.

I f#*cking hate the Patriots. But this team right now is the best NFL team ever. It's hard to imagine that another team will have this kind of consistent dominance of the league in a long time...and they're still not done yet.

[Real Deal Steel]

I hate them too, but I think you're only lying to yourself if you don't admit that they're the best team of all time. Best coach ever. Best QB ever.

They've been the most feared team in the league for almost two decades in an era where achieving consistent success is harder than it's ever been. In that time, their coach / QB have appeared in and won more SBs than anyone ever. Included in those wins is the most dramatic comeback in SB history (more than double the previous record for a SB comeback).

Should they have lost yesterday? Yes. Did they? No. I don't know if any other QB in the league could lead that kind of a come back.

I f#*cking hate the Patriots. But this team right now is the best NFL team ever. It's hard to imagine that another team will have this kind of consistent dominance of the league in a long time...and they're still not done yet.

I've been blessed to have been an Adult to see Joe Montana and Bart Starr.

And the Patriots are blessed to be in a period where they've played in the weakest division in football for the last 20 years and that there are no good organazations in their conference.

49ers had to deal with the Giants and the Redskins...two other dynasties at the same time as theirs.

[D Rock]

I've been blessed to have been an Adult to see Joe Montana and Bart Starr.

And the Patriots are blessed to be in a period where they've played in the weakest division in football for the last 20 years and that there are no good organazations in their conference.

49ers had to deal with the Giants and the Redskins...two other dynasties at the same time as theirs.

In a league designed to induce parity, they have dominated over and over again. It's past anger and just at respect for me now. The only consistent pieces are the FO, coach, and QB. All the other players consistently turn over, but they just keep winning. It's crazy when you stop and really think about it, how much better their system is than all the others to be able to do that.

[Mick'sTeam]

I've been blessed to have been an Adult to see Joe Montana and Bart Starr.

And the Patriots are blessed to be in a period where they've played in the weakest division in football for the last 20 years and that there are no good organazations in their conference.

49ers had to deal with the Giants and the Redskins...two other dynasties at the same time as theirs.

Playing in a weak division doesn't discount their ability to steamroll the playoffs. If the Steelers were experiencing this success instead of the Patriots, we'd all be preaching dynasty and best ever. I struggle to see how anyone can view it differently.

[Real Deal Steel]

Playing in a weak division doesn't discount their ability to steamroll the playoffs. If the Steelers were experiencing this success instead of the Patriots, we'd all be preaching dynasty and best ever. I struggle to see how anyone can view it differently.

Of course as a Steeler fan, we take our wins where we can get them. I hear ya.

But when your talking "all time" talk, that's what I'm refering to. The Patriots are blessed to be in an era where they are basically the ONLY organazation that knows what their doing on a reguar basis. That was not the case in the 80's with the 49ers and Joe Montana. That's all I'm saying.

[papillon]

I hate them too, but I think you're only lying to yourself if you don't admit that they're the best team of all time. Best coach ever. Best QB ever.

They've been the most feared team in the league for almost two decades in an era where achieving consistent success is harder than it's ever been. In that time, their coach / QB have appeared in and won more SBs than anyone ever. Included in those wins is the most dramatic comeback in SB history (more than double the previous record for a SB comeback).

Should they have lost yesterday? Yes. Did they? No. I don't know if any other QB in the league could lead that kind of a come back.

I f#*cking hate the Patriots. But this team right now is the best NFL team ever. It's hard to imagine that another team will have this kind of consistent dominance of the league in a long time...and they're still not done yet.

I disagree that this particular team is the best ever or that any of the Patriot teams were the best ever, what they are is the best organization of the past 18 years because of two guys and that is pretty much indisputable. The names around Brady and Belichick have changed often, but it makes no difference they still play at a high level because of Brady and Belichick. Hell, if Julian Edelman played an entire career with Brady he would likely be a HOF candidate and he won't be close when his career is done. A lacrosse player was made into a hero versus the Steelers and yesterday it was James Wright (who?).

Brady misses a season and Matt Cassell becomes a very wealthy man because he wins 11 games but misses the playoffs. He couldn't carry a team into the playoffs once he left the Patriots. Teams should be leary of Jimmy Garapolo that could be the exact same scenario as Cassell. No team has shed salaries and replaced players like the Patriots have done and they were able to do it because they have Tom Brady.

Many people may not like it but its difficult to argue IMO, when one goes the other will go because neither will have anything left to prove. They'll exit together and enter the HOF together. But as far as the best singular team of all time not in my opinion, but definitely the best organization over the past 17 or 18 years. Their record proves this out.

Pappy

[Real Deal Steel]

I disagree that this particular team is the best ever or that any of the Patriot teams were the best ever, what they are is the best organization of the past 18 years because of two guys and that is pretty much indisputable. The names around Brady and Belichick have changed often, but it makes no difference they still play at a high level because of Brady and Belichick. Hell, if Julian Edelman played an entire career with Brady he would likely be a HOF candidate and he won't be close when his career is done. A lacrosse player was made into a hero versus the Steelers and yesterday it was James Wright (who?).

Brady misses a season and Matt Cassell becomes a very wealthy man because he wins 11 games but misses the playoffs. He couldn't carry a team into the playoffs once he left the Patriots. Teams should be leary of Jimmy Garapolo that could be the exact same scenario as Cassell. No team has shed salaries and replaced players like the Patriots have done and they were able to do it because they have Tom Brady.

Many people may not like it but its difficult to argue IMO, when one goes the other will go because neither will have anything left to prove. They'll exit together and enter the HOF together. But as far as the best singular team of all time not in my opinion, but definitely the best organization over the past 17 or 18 years. Their record proves this out.

Pappy

Bellichek has already told Kraft when he will retire but Kraft is keeping it to himself.

[D Rock]

Of course as a Steeler fan, we take our wins where we can get them. I hear ya.

But when your talking "all time" talk, that's what I'm refering to. The Patriots are blessed to be in an era where they are basically the ONLY organazation that knows what their doing on a reguar basis. That was not the case in the 80's with the 49ers and Joe Montana. That's all I'm saying.

Your argument actually proves why this current Pats dynasty IS the best, not why they are not.

In an era when no one else can consistently stay great, they can and have. The Steelers of the 70's, the 49ers, and the others you mentioned were dyansty level because you could keep a team together easier....Build it once and you're good to go. The current Pat's are at the top because they keep doing it with different pieces.

[Real Deal Steel]

I respectfully disagree.

Because when any organization shows the slightest inkling of knowledge, they slap Bellichek and Brady down.

I use the Giants and the Broncos as proof of that.

It's like if I go to a junior high school and kick every boys @ss. "ohh..he's so great, he's so this, he's so that."

But when I go to a place where their are other "men", then I get my @ss kicked because I'm going up against equal management or competition.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Playing in a weak division doesn't discount their ability to steamroll the playoffs. If the Steelers were experiencing this success instead of the Patriots, we'd all be preaching dynasty and best ever. I struggle to see how anyone can view it differently.

Here's my take, first let me say I hate them as well. However, they must currently be held if not the best, one of the best all-time. In the past 15 years or so they are the best. Belicheater went 3-1 with replacement QBs at the start of the season. The organization is run right "team first", do your job mentality. AB's antics wouldn't last a NY minute there.

With that being said they have been caught cheating tice and for all intense and purposes they should have lost to both the Seahawks and the Falcons, but they didn't. Good teams never give up and always find a way to win.

Lastly, and most importantly if it is found that there is more cheating going on, all titles should be vacated and Belicheater and Brady banned for life, including the HOF. Kraft should be forced to sell the team.

Just my thoughts.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

You know they are still doing some kind of cheating. Cheaters don't voluntarily quit cheating. It goes to their character; they are always looking for a way to get an edge outside the boundaries of the rules.

Whether their cheating will be brought to light, or covered up (like Spygate mostly was), that's another matter.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

You know they are still doing some kind of cheating. Cheaters don't voluntarily quit cheating. It goes to their character; they are always looking for a way to get an edge outside the boundaries of the rules.

Whether their cheating will be brought to light, or covered up (like Spygate mostly was), that's another matter.

This. Why are people talking about their legacy when it was built on a foundation of cheating?

Sure the NFL has a vested interest in propaganda and fake news, to sweep it all under the rug so the owners get more money. But that is no reason for true fans of the game, including/especially Steeler fans to go along with that.

They were caught cheating twice, so you know the number of times they cheated other teams, yes including us, was more than that.

[Real Deal Steel]

This. Why are people talking about their legacy when it was built on a foundation of cheating?



This. Deflating balls, video taping other teams practices, blocking out the opponents radio signals to talk to their quarterbacks, these are the things the Patriots have done.

Ask your self one question:

1. What other legendary (great) coaches were known, confirmed cheaters?

Exactly.

That's why Bellichek will never be "great" in my book.

[feltdizz]

I respectfully disagree.

Because when any organization shows the slightest inkling of knowledge, they slap Bellichek and Brady down.

I use the Giants and the Broncos as proof of that.

It's like if I go to a junior high school and kick every boys @ss. "ohh..he's so great, he's so this, he's so that."

But when I go to a place where their are other "men", then I get my @ss kicked because I'm going up against equal management or competition.

slightest? Really?

[RuthlessBurgher]

slightest? Really?

The Giants and Broncos certainly have proven to all of us that all you need is the slightest inkling of knowledge to slap Belichick and Brady down. Of course, Osi Umenyiora/Justin Tuck/Jason Pierre-Paul/Michael Strahan and Von Miller/DeMarcus Ware/Malik Jackson/Derek Wolfe helped a little bit too. But it's mostly that slightest inkling of knowledge thing. Obviously. ;)

[pfelix73]

I disagree that this particular team is the best ever or that any of the Patriot teams were the best ever, what they are is the best organization of the past 18 years because of two guys and that is pretty much indisputable. The names around Brady and Belichick have changed often, but it makes no difference they still play at a high level because of Brady and Belichick. Hell, if Julian Edelman played an entire career with Brady he would likely be a HOF candidate and he won't be close when his career is done. A lacrosse player was made into a hero versus the Steelers and yesterday it was James Wright (who?).

Brady misses a season and Matt Cassell becomes a very wealthy man because he wins 11 games but misses the playoffs. He couldn't carry a team into the playoffs once he left the Patriots. Teams should be leary of Jimmy Garapolo that could be the exact same scenario as Cassell. No team has shed salaries and replaced players like the Patriots have done and they were able to do it because they have Tom Brady.

Many people may not like it but its difficult to argue IMO, when one goes the other will go because neither will have anything left to prove. They'll exit together and enter the HOF together. But as far as the best singular team of all time not in my opinion, but definitely the best organization over the past 17 or 18 years. Their record proves this out.

Pappy


I totally agree with ya pappy. The best for the last 15 years or so, is one thing, but the the best over al?? no way. That would still go to the team with 6 Lombardies. Look at their resume since 1970..

[tiproast]

I disagree that this particular team is the best ever or that any of the Patriot teams were the best ever, what they are is the best organization of the past 18 years because of two guys and that is pretty much indisputable. The names around Brady and Belichick have changed often, but it makes no difference they still play at a high level because of Brady and Belichick. Hell, if Julian Edelman played an entire career with Brady he would likely be a HOF candidate and he won't be close when his career is done. A lacrosse player was made into a hero versus the Steelers and yesterday it was James Wright (who?).

Brady misses a season and Matt Cassell becomes a very wealthy man because he wins 11 games but misses the playoffs. He couldn't carry a team into the playoffs once he left the Patriots. Teams should be leary of Jimmy Garapolo that could be the exact same scenario as Cassell. No team has shed salaries and replaced players like the Patriots have done and they were able to do it because they have Tom Brady.

Many people may not like it but its difficult to argue IMO, when one goes the other will go because neither will have anything left to prove. They'll exit together and enter the HOF together. But as far as the best singular team of all time not in my opinion, but definitely the best organization over the past 17 or 18 years. Their record proves this out.

Pappy
Good post.

One of the heroes on Sunday was James White, a running back from Wisconsin picked in the 4th round. He was a pretty good player in college; it took him a while to get regular reps for the Pats because when he first got here, he couldn't block very well. If a Patriots RB can't pick up a blitz, he won't see the field.

[Captain Lemming]

The Pats are a great QB and coach and a bunch of interchangeable parts. They are not the greatest team.

What they have accomplished is the greatest team "feat" especially in the free agent era. The system is designed to work against the consistency they have been able to show.

But this is why you cannot judge them as greater than earlier dynasties. In the past MULTIPLE TEAMS assembled a disproportionate amount of the leagues talent. Teams like the Raiders, and Cowboys were great in all phases of the game. A team with major flaws like the recent Broncos team would NEVER steamroll there way to a championship. Even WE won with a pretty weak offense in 2008. And a QB who was garbage in the SB in 2004. Those Giant teams THAT BEAT the Pats were no juggernauts.

Nevertheless, I do believe what the Pats have done is far harder than what we did with what I consider to be a superior team. When half your players are HOFers you SHOULD win championships. I would not begrudge a Pats fan who felt they are the best ever.

[Shawn]

I hate them too, but I think you're only lying to yourself if you don't admit that they're the best team of all time. Best coach ever. Best QB ever.

They've been the most feared team in the league for almost two decades in an era where achieving consistent success is harder than it's ever been. In that time, their coach / QB have appeared in and won more SBs than anyone ever. Included in those wins is the most dramatic comeback in SB history (more than double the previous record for a SB comeback).

Should they have lost yesterday? Yes. Did they? No. I don't know if any other QB in the league could lead that kind of a come back.

I f#*cking hate the Patriots. But this team right now is the best NFL team ever. It's hard to imagine that another team will have this kind of consistent dominance of the league in a long time...and they're still not done yet. I agree. At this point it just sounds like whining. Give credit where credit is due.

[NorthCoast]

A sign of being the best? Would you want your team to be modeled after them? .... and if you said no, you are just being dishonest.

The cliche 'to be the best you must beat the best' holds true.....

[Steelwolf]

I hate the Patriots but damn those *******s are the best team. You have to smack the bully right in the mouth if you plan on moving forward and the steelers coward in the afc game. Period.

[8467thekraken]

With a history of confirmed and admitted cheating during their "reign", I have nothing but contempt for that organization.

I have no problem with them being in the conversation as best team ever. Just as long as ALL the facts are laid out. Cause for me, once the facts have been addressed, there is no more conversation.

[papillon]

Good post.

One of the heroes on Sunday was James White, a running back from Wisconsin picked in the 4th round. He was a pretty good player in college; it took him a while to get regular reps for the Pats because when he first got here, he couldn't block very well. If a Patriots RB can't pick up a blitz, he won't see the field.

I'm not saying Wright is a bad player and he may end up being great. At this point, he's an unknown and showed up big in the Super Bowl, the same as Hogan showed up big versus the Steelers. My point and you understand it, is that Belichcick and Brady carry the team regardless of who's on the field. I thought for sure a Super Bowl run ended when Gronk went down, nope, insert the interchangeable part, keep Brady upright and let Belichick out coach every other coach in the league. Winner.

Congrats by the way, I was certain that you guys were going to win even at 28-3, I could just feel that the Falcons weren't putting the game away. They needed one more score and couldn't find it, a safety, FG, TD anything would have iced the game, but it was not to be.

Pappy

[tiproast]

I'm not saying Wright is a bad player and he may end up being great. At this point, he's an unknown and showed up big in the Super Bowl, the same as Hogan showed up big versus the Steelers. My point and you understand it, is that Belichcick and Brady carry the team regardless of who's on the field. I thought for sure a Super Bowl run ended when Gronk went down, nope, insert the interchangeable part, keep Brady upright and let Belichick out coach every other coach in the league. Winner.

Congrats by the way, I was certain that you guys were going to win even at 28-3, I could just feel that the Falcons weren't putting the game away. They needed one more score and couldn't find it, a safety, FG, TD anything would have iced the game, but it was not to be.

Pappy
Grazie.

I had sort of the opposite feelings about the season and the game than you - I was pretty sure they wouldn't miss Gronk all that much, but I was less certain of a complete comeback in the SB. Although I was confident it wouldn't remain a blowout, I have seen too many late-game miracle catches to be 100% certain that things would work out.

And, of course, you're spot on about Belichick and Brady.

Cheers, my friend, and with luck and good health perhaps both our teams will be in the AFCCG again next year.

[papillon]

Grazie.

I had sort of the opposite feelings about the season and the game than you - I was pretty sure they wouldn't miss Gronk all that much, but I was less certain of a complete comeback in the SB. Although I was confident it wouldn't remain a blowout, I have seen too many late-game miracle catches to be 100% certain that things would work out.

And, of course, you're spot on about Belichick and Brady.

Cheers, my friend, and with luck and good health perhaps both our teams will be in the AFCCG again next year.

:Cheers Maybe someday we'll lift one together, you just never know.

Pappy

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

With a history of confirmed and admitted cheating during their "reign", I have nothing but contempt for that organization.

I have no problem with them being in the conversation as best team ever. Just as long as ALL the facts are laid out. Cause for me, once the facts have been addressed, there is no more conversation.


This^^.

10 charac

[Slapstick]

This. Why are people talking about their legacy when it was built on a foundation of cheating?

Sure the NFL has a vested interest in propaganda and fake news, to sweep it all under the rug so the owners get more money. But that is no reason for true fans of the game, including/especially Steeler fans to go along with that.

They were caught cheating twice, so you know the number of times they cheated other teams, yes including us, was more than that.

Thankfully, one person is unafraid to bring it up:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691294-marshall-faulk-comments-on-tom-bradys-legacy-ahead-of-super-bowl-51

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Yes, bringing it up is hard to do if your livelihood depends on being able to feed at the NFL trough - if you're a talking head, coach, etc.

There's a good reason Goodell destroyed the Spygate tapes - NFL profits would have been threatened if success was equated with cheating. That was a signal to the NFL universe that remains very well understood years later, today - they will not blink about destroying your NFL-associated career if you bring up the NE** cheating scandals.

The sad part is that a lot of men gave their entire careers trying to achieve something they believed was within reach, not knowing the game was rigged.

(If I were an ultra-rich AFC East fan, I'd spend what it takes to look for evidence of more cheating there ... I think the odds are high it could be uncovered).

The bottom line is:

"NE Patriots** : 5-time Superbowl champions, 2-time cheaters (and counting)."