Numbers stacked against Steelers' Timmons

[SteelCrazy]

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/10534947-74/timmons-steelers-contract

Lawrence Timmons recently took a glance at the Steelers roster. He really didn't like what he saw.

“It's not good, I will tell you that,” Timmons said.

Timmons' disgust had nothing to do with a defense that is seemingly on the rise after a couple of thin years while rebuilding. Instead, it all had to do with the number that is now next to his name — 30.

Timmons — Mike Tomlin's first draft pick a decade ago — turned 30 two weeks ago. Timmons is the third oldest defensive player on the team and is one of a dozen thirty-somethings on the Steelers roster.

Some grow old gracefully. Timmons doesn't want to be one of those guys.

“Having that number next to my name is a little weird for me,” Timmons said. “But I guess it is growing on me.”

As Timmons starts his 10th NFL season, his age isn't his only concern.

His contract situation could trump that.

Despite Timmons' still playing at a high level at his inside linebacker position, this could be his final season with the Steelers.

Timmons is in the final year of a $48 million contract he signed in 2011. Due to contract restructures in 2012, 2013 and 2015, his salary cap hit has ballooned to $15.1 million this year — trailing only Ben Roethlisberger's $24 million.

A cap hit as significant as Timmons', combined with his ability to play at a high level, usually suggests a contract extension, which the Steelers did two years ago with aging veterans with big cap hits Troy Polamalu and Heath Miller. But the Steelers needed money then. They don't now, at least not to add years to a 30-year-old veteran's contract.

As the second week of offseason workouts kicks off Tuesday at the UPMC Rooney Sports Complex, there has been no such extension for Timmons, bringing it closer to a reality that this could be his last year with the Steelers.

If an extension isn't worked out by the start of the season, Timmons will be an unrestricted free agent in March.

The Steelers have Vince Williams who could fill the void left by Timmons, but Williams will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. The Steelers lost Sean Spence and Terence Garvin to free agency, leaving the position strapped in heir apparents.

As expected, Timmons downplayed his contract situation.

“Whatever happens, happens,” Timmons said. “It is a business. I am just going to show up and do the best that I can. It is not about the money, it is about the love of the game. I am not petty like that. I am not about that. I am not about the money, I am about the team.”

There's no doubt Timmons is still playing at a high level despite his age. Inside linebackers tend to have longer shelf lives than a lot of positions. Nearly half of the projected starting inside linebackers in the NFL are older than Timmons.

“Timmons is a known commodity around here,” defensive end Cam Heyward said.

And a dependable one

Timmons has played in 104 games, and started 85 in a row. Between 2013-14, he played in 1,814 consecutive snaps. Last year, he played in every snap until Week 13 against the Bengals when he was replaced in some passing situations by safety Robert Golden.

Over the final four games, Timmons played in only 83 percent of the Steelers' snaps, which didn't set particularly well with him.

“I always feel that I should be on the field helping my team,” Timmons said.

Even with a change in defensive philosophy, Timmons led the team with 119 tackles, had a team-high four 10-tackle games and was third on the team with five sacks.

Until — or if — Timmons' contract situation is resolved, he's approaching the offseason practices like he always has, and that's improving his game.

“You can always get better,” Timmons said. We feel that we can take that next step. The young guys are really stepping up. We are excited.”

[Shoe]

Class guy, the kind of guy you always want on the team... But he is now 10 years in the league. Ten years is also a nice round number to play for the team. He also has been paid pretty well this contract, so no complaints there. And in the end, he's good (but not great).

I agree that Williams could effectively take his place at this point in both's careers. (Williams is no "prime" Timmons.) I think it's Shazier's show now, or it should be if he can stay healthy. I think the young kid we drafted may be a good backup in future years. And yes, maybe even Zumwalt will get it together to play a nice back-up role for a couple years.

In the end, we probably won't be able to afford Timmons anymore.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

He may be willing to take a hometown discount to stay with the team for a few more years.

[squidkid]

that cap hit is ridiculous
should restructure him for about 6 million this year and 4 next

[Iron City Inc.]

Timmons saw his playing time drop when we went big nickle later in the year as Shazier became the "mike" in our 2-3-3-3 D. it often looked like this:
.................................................. ...wr...........wr...................te........... ......wr..
.................................................. .......................48...91....97........95.... ..........

.................................................. ...41...........22............ 50....21................31

.................................................. .....................23......................20... ..........

Golden over the TE and Gay locked up on the slot. So who was left out? You guessed it Timmons. Now with all our sub packages it appears though 94 remains an above average player his role decreased late in 15. For him he knows that will likely have an impact on his next contract. Still a valuable chess piece but a piece that will have to play for less in the future.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Some numbers may be working against him, but with the kind of salary he's making, definitely some number$ working in his favor this year!

[Slapstick]

The only reason his cap hit is so high is due to multiple restructurings...his salary may be a tiny bit high ($8 million) but not unreasonable for what he brings to the team...he played 95% of defensive snaps...

[birtikidis]

that cap hit is ridiculous
should restructure him for about 6 million this year and 4 next
Two things:
1) that's not how restructures work.
2) he's a free agent NEXT March.

[birtikidis]

http://www.21cpw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/d1Z-thats-not-how-it-works-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.jpg

[SteelCrazy]

we dont need to restructure Timmons this year because we have the cap space we need, so that'll save us money in the future for other signings without restructuring more then we have to.

[Captain Lemming]

that cap hit is ridiculous
should restructure him for about 6 million this year and 4 next

Makes zero sense for him to sign for 5 mil less over 2 years than the team already agreed to pay him for one season. Why would he do that? You better be willing to cut him and if we do he gets more that 5 mil average elsewhere easy. If we cut him will we be a better team especially considering how fragile Shazier has been thus far?

[birtikidis]

we dont need to restructure Timmons this year because we have the cap space we need, so that'll save us money in the future for other signings without restructuring more then we have to.
We CAN'T restructure Timmons becasue he's in the last year of his contract.

[phillyesq]

Makes zero sense for him to sign for 5 mil less over 2 years than the team already agreed to pay him for one season. Why would he do that? You better be willing to cut him and if we do he gets more that 5 mil average elsewhere easy. If we cut him will we be a better team especially considering how fragile Shazier has been thus far?

I think you are overstating his value on the open market. James Laurinaitis got 3 years, $8.25 million - total. Signing bonus was $1.8 million. Both have a very similar career track record - Timmons has more sacks, Laurinaitis has more tackles. Laurinaitis is a bit younger and has played 2 fewer seasons.

I'd either look for Timmons to take a Heath Miller / Troy Polamalu type extension, with little or no new money to spread out his cap hit, or simply let him play out this year and offer him a deal similar to what Laurinaitis got next year.

[Slapstick]

Makes zero sense for him to sign for 5 mil less over 2 years than the team already agreed to pay him for one season. Why would he do that? You better be willing to cut him and if we do he gets more that 5 mil average elsewhere easy. If we cut him will we be a better team especially considering how fragile Shazier has been thus far?

But, that is not the case. Timmons isn't making $15 million this year...that is just his cap hit...$6 million of that figure
comes from multiple contract restructurings that he and the Steelers agreed to do...it's a proration...

If the Steelers can withstand Timmons' cap hit this year and sign him to a deal similar to Laurinaitis, that would be best for them...

[Oviedo]

We CAN'T restructure Timmons becasue he's in the last year of his contract.

They will extend not restructure

[Oviedo]

I've never seen so many fans of a team so desperate to get rid of a player who has been a rock of consistency, never misses a game, rarely comes off the field, just made the Pro Bowl and was selected 2nd Team All Pro.

I'm betting Timmons retires as a Steeler because he wants to and the front office will want him to. Acting like Vince Williams can do on the field what Timmons does is laughable.

[phillyesq]

I've never seen so many fans of a team so desperate to get rid of a player who has been a rock of consistency, never misses a game, rarely comes off the field, just made the Pro Bowl and was selected 2nd Team All Pro.

I'm betting Timmons retires as a Steeler because he wants to and the front office will want him to. Acting like Vince Williams can do on the field what Timmons does is laughable.

Where does anybody say they want to get rid of Timmons?

[RuthlessBurgher]

I've never seen so many fans of a team so desperate to get rid of a player who has been a rock of consistency, never misses a game, rarely comes off the field, just made the Pro Bowl and was selected 2nd Team All Pro.

I'm betting Timmons retires as a Steeler because he wants to and the front office will want him to. Acting like Vince Williams can do on the field what Timmons does is laughable.

On the other hand, other fans were so desperate to get rid of a defensive coordinator who has been a rock of consistency...just sayin'.

[ikestops85]

On the other hand, other fans were so desperate to get rid of a defensive coordinator who has been a rock of consistency...just sayin'.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPHECmEUEAA_CBi.png

[Oviedo]

On the other hand, other fans were so desperate to get rid of a defensive coordinator who has been a rock of consistency...just sayin'.

...until he wasn't! After stringing three sub-par and decreasing performance seasons together any player would have been let go to. It's not an accident that in the first season he is in charge, Butler was able to increase sacks and turnovers after they had gotten to 30 year lows.

If Timmons, or any other player, has declining performance for tree years they should be gone too not having a litany of past successes recited on a regular basis.

[phillyesq]

...until he wasn't! After stringing three sub-par and decreasing performance seasons together any player would have been let go to. It's not an accident that in the first season he is in charge, Butler was able to increase sacks and turnovers after they had gotten to 30 year lows.

If Timmons, or any other player, has declining performance for tree years they should be gone too not having a litany of past successes recited on a regular basis.

Timmons absolutely regressed last year, and his loss of speed has been noticeable. Although you state that he was a Pro Bowler and an All Pro, that was after the 2014 season, not the 2015 season. He earned no accolades for his play last year.

Yet, despite his decline, nobody has started a crusade against him, certainly not on the scale of your anti-Lebeau / anti 3-4 crusade which dated back to the Trib Board....

[Slapstick]

Timmons regressed? He did have 13 fewer tackles than 2014...to go along with 3 more sacks, 5 more passes defended and an INT...are all superior to his 2014 season...

[phillyesq]

Timmons regressed? He did have 13 fewer tackles than 2014...to go along with 3 more sacks, 5 more passes defended and an INT...are all superior to his 2014 season...

From watching the games, his loss of speed is noticeable. Not that this is a definitive source, but PFF did not rank him well at all last year:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-an-steelers-hanging-timmons-out-to-dry-not-putting-players-in-position-to-succeed/

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Timmons missed a lot of tackles in the first half of last season.

[Oviedo]

From watching the games, his loss of speed is noticeable. Not that this is a definitive source, but PFF did not rank him well at all last year:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-an-steelers-hanging-timmons-out-to-dry-not-putting-players-in-position-to-succeed/


Ahhhhhh...the "eye test" statistics be damned. Where can I get one of them calibrated eye balls that measures speed on a TV?

[Oviedo]

Timmons regressed? He did have 13 fewer tackles than 2014...to go along with 3 more sacks, 5 more passes defended and an INT...are all superior to his 2014 season...


I'll trade 13 less tackles for 3 more sacks and 5 more passes defended anytime.

[fordfixer]

Ahhhhhh...the "eye test" statistics be damned. Where can I get one of them calibrated eye balls that measures speed on a TV?

Just send me 3 easy payments of $99.95 +S&H And you will get your very own calibrated eye ball speed gun, Its works on T.V. or at the ballpark and the race track yes you heard me right just 3 easy payments of $99.95 +S&H. But wait there's more.................... Okay really there isn't more, I've' just all ways wanted to say that :D

[phillyesq]

Ahhhhhh...the "eye test" statistics be damned. Where can I get one of them calibrated eye balls that measures speed on a TV?

Why do you think Timmons was getting pulled on passing downs later in the season? Because of his stellar coverage. He's getting slower as he gets older. It happens. And if you are going to blindly count stats, how about the missed tackles. Through week 13 (last count I could find), he had 19, second only to Blake.

I'm not saying to get rid of him by the way. Simply pointing out that he has regressed.

[Captain Lemming]

I think you are overstating his value on the open market. James Laurinaitis got 3 years, $8.25 million - total. Signing bonus was $1.8 million. Both have a very similar career track record - Timmons has more sacks, Laurinaitis has more tackles. Laurinaitis is a bit younger and has played 2 fewer seasons.

I'd either look for Timmons to take a Heath Miller / Troy Polamalu type extension, with little or no new money to spread out his cap hit, or simply let him play out this year and offer him a deal similar to what Laurinaitis got next year.

My comment was in response to the suggestion that he restructure his current deal, not what we might offer after it. Why would he restructure his deal? The teams only leverage is to threaten to cut him, my point is with Shaziers health history are they willing to do that? If not Timmons has leverage. Why would he scrap his deal? The point is moot as already the point was made that it is too late to restructure anyway.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

its funny how ovi gets so worked up over timmons, yet wanted James Harrison run out of town

just another replaceable carbon unit, imo

[RuthlessBurgher]

My comment was in response to the suggestion that he restructure his current deal, not what we might offer after it. Why would he restructure his deal? The teams only leverage is to threaten to cut him, my point is with Shaziers health history are they willing to do that? If not Timmons has leverage. Why would he scrap his deal? The point is moot as already the point was made that it is too late to restructure anyway.

Restructuring isn't a possibility when you are entering the last year of your contract.

[Captain Lemming]

But, that is not the case. Timmons isn't making $15 million this year...that is just his cap hit...$6 million of that figure
comes from multiple contract restructurings that he and the Steelers agreed to do...it's a proration...

If the Steelers can withstand Timmons' cap hit this year and sign him to a deal similar to Laurinaitis, that would be best for them...

I am not talking about what to do AFTER this season. I am not saying we need to keep paying him this much. I was addressing Squids comment that we should restructure Timmons NOW (which apparently can't be done anyway). Nevertheless, my point is the only leverage to force a restructure is to threaten to cut him. Otherwise he has no incentive to do a restructure.

Do you think we should cut Timmons now? We can still do that. If not we agree on my general premise.

[Captain Lemming]

Restructuring isn't a possibility when you are entering the last year of your contract.

Yes, I got that. Therefore, my calling the point "moot" based on Birts earlier comment.

[phillyesq]

My comment was in response to the suggestion that he restructure his current deal, not what we might offer after it. Why would he restructure his deal? The teams only leverage is to threaten to cut him, my point is with Shaziers health history are they willing to do that? If not Timmons has leverage. Why would he scrap his deal? The point is moot as already the point was made that it is too late to restructure anyway.

Ah, got it.

[phillyesq]

Restructuring isn't a possibility when you are entering the last year of your contract.

Not a straight restructure, but you can generally restructure through an extension (similar to what Troy and Heath did).

[birtikidis]

Not a straight restructure, but you can generally restructure through an extension (similar to what Troy and Heath did).
You could absolutely tear up his current deal and give him an extension. It's what we've done with players in the past (Troy, Bettis, etc). It's what we SHOULD do. We don't have ANY proven players in the middle. We have a couple "could be's" but nothing consistent.

[Shoe]

Why do you think Timmons was getting pulled on passing downs later in the season? Because of his stellar coverage. He's getting slower as he gets older. It happens. And if you are going to blindly count stats, how about the missed tackles. Through week 13 (last count I could find), he had 19, second only to Blake.

I'm not saying to get rid of him by the way. Simply pointing out that he has regressed.

I may have the same calibrated eye-balls as phillyesq... I see many of the same things that he sees with Timmons. The trick here, is trying to see the cracks in the dam early, and make decisions accordingly. Yes, his stats look good still (i.e. dam is fine). By that rationale, you gotta pay the man. But there are signs: watching him lumber a bit as he chases guys, noticing slight body changes, etc.

I like him for his quiet toughness and class. But it is better to let a guy walk a year early than a year late.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Report: Lawrence Timmons, Steelers “not close” on extension
Posted by Josh Alper on July 28, 2016, 11:44 AM EDT

Linebacker Lawrence Timmons is entering the final year of his contract with the Steelers and, thanks to his $15.1 million cap number, he looked like a possible candidate for an extension when the offseason opened.

The months went by without any change in Timmons’ status, however, and it doesn’t look like any change is imminent either. Mark Kaboly of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports that the two sides are “not close” to a new deal and that the Steelers’ aversion to in-season negotiations would leave him on track for free agency if that remains the case.

Timmons told the team’s website that he is “willing to do whatever” to remain with the Steelers. With any desire to add cap space lessened at this point of the offseason, it seems part of what he’ll have to do is show the team that he has something left to give them over the course of the 2016 season.

Timmons was the Steelers’ first-round pick in 2007 and has been a fixture in the starting lineup since the 2009 season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/28/report-lawrence-timmons-steelers-not-close-on-extension/