Haley, Ben, or both?

[WindyCitySteel]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

[feltdizz]

Ben isn't that smart... great QB but he isn't really one of those QB's who tries to draw the D offsides or snaps the ball before the other team is set.

He is old school, it's all about beating you physically... not mentally.

[papillon]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

This was exactly my thoughts especially after the way he ran the offense last year. On the 3rd and five with a running play called,IMO, Ben has two options, call a timeout or audible out of the play, even with the success the Steelers were having running the football gaining 5 yards on a running play inside the 10 yard line is a rare occurrence. You rarely surprise an NFL team with that play call.

The trickeration play was called too early in the game, with the running game gouging them and Ben moving the ball through the air you keep that play in your back pocket for a crucial time in the game after you have set it up with multiple WR screens or little pitch and catch completions. It failed, IMO, because, the pats weren't set up for the play, they had no reason to bite and come and make a tackle on Brown the Steelers had only run 5 or 6 plays. That play requires a games worth of set up to be successful.

The clock management continues to befuddle me, you would think by now that this would not be an issue, but stunningly it is. A coach in his 9th year and a quarterback in his 11th year should not have issues managing the clock, but its evident that they do.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

I still put more blame on Haley. He takes the ball out of Ben's hands too much in the RZ.

[WindyCitySteel]

I still put more blame on Haley. He takes the ball out of Ben's hands too much in the RZ.

Agreed, but Ben should be able to check out of it. I'm fine with trying to punch it in from the 1, but not the 5 on 3rd down.

Anyway, the schedule gets all kinds of brutal after SF. They simply must win that game and start correcting some of these issues.

[feltdizz]

Agreed, but Ben should be able to check out of it. I'm fine with trying to punch it in from the 1, but not the 5 on 3rd down.

Anyway, the schedule gets all kinds of brutal after SF. They simply must win that game and start correcting some of these issues.

yeah, as much as I want to blame Haley...Ben is in his 11th year. Alsonwouldnt be surprised if Ben checked for he run. There are times when we blame Haley then find out Ben checked into a running play.

[7upnext]

We all agree that some of these play calls are brain dead stupid, but can't Ben check out of them? 11-year vet, franchise QB, team leader - he can't be blameless here.

When seeing the Pats back in a zone, why even run the AB pass play? 3rd and goal from the five and we run DW - can't he check out?

Ditto with the clock mgmt. Why can't Ben stop the clock at the end of the first half, or before the 2:00 minute warning?

The truth is Ben is pretty dumb as far as QB IQ goes. He has never and will never be the kind of QB like Peyton, Manning, Luck, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc that calls successful audibles, has good pre-snap recognition or call for blitz protections. He also is in love with the big play and for most of his career (until Haley finally got him to buy in) he wouldn't take the easier underneath outlets or run (did this in Pats game too). That said, nobody in the history of the league is better at improvisation or extending plays and certainly harder to get down. You take the good with the bad.

The infamous trick play call that killed that drive wasn't a bad call but once the defense showed zone with the safeties able to see the play unfolding before them it should have been changed by Ben at the LOS. Somehow fans that just don't understand football blame Haley. We've now had 11 years of history that shows this sort of play is really on Ben.

The clock management is really on Tomlin. Again...Ben is not cerebral so expecting him to do this is asking too much.

[DBR96A]

Discussions like this are one of the main reasons why I increasingly dissociate myself from other Steeler fans. You wanna know who's really dumb here? People who call a QB who's had only 1.96% of his passes intercepted in the last five seasons dumb. Posts #2 and #7 are null and ****ing void.

[winwithd]

I thought they practice clock management/end of game situations every day in camp. That's why this stuff surprises me when it happens.

[WindyCitySteel]

I thought they practice clock management/end of game situations every day in camp. That's why this stuff surprises me when it happens.

Maybe they bungle them in practice, too.

[WindyCitySteel]

Discussions like this are one of the main reasons why I increasingly dissociate myself from other Steeler fans. You wanna know who's really dumb here? People who call a QB who's had only 1.96% of his passes intercepted in the last five seasons dumb. Posts #2 and #7 are null and ****ing void.

Unbunch your panties. Ben is a HOF QB - gamer, winner, amazing passer, but he's not a smart signal caller. There's no shame in that, it just is what it is. We won four Super Bowls with a similar guy in the 70s.

[Flasteel]

The truth is Ben is pretty dumb as far as QB IQ goes. He has never and will never be the kind of QB like Peyton, Manning, Luck, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc that calls successful audibles, has good pre-snap recognition or call for blitz protections. He also is in love with the big play and for most of his career (until Haley finally got him to buy in) he wouldn't take the easier underneath outlets or run (did this in Pats game too). That said, nobody in the history of the league is better at improvisation or extending plays and certainly harder to get down. You take the good with the bad.

The infamous trick play call that killed that drive wasn't a bad call but once the defense showed zone with the safeties able to see the play unfolding before them it should have been changed by Ben at the LOS. Somehow fans that just don't understand football blame Haley. We've now had 11 years of history that shows this sort of play is really on Ben.

The clock management is really on Tomlin. Again...Ben is not cerebral so expecting him to do this is asking too much.

I think you're tossing out a bunch of crap here. Attacking Ben's quarterbacking acumen is absurd. The primary evolution in his game has been from the head up and I guarantee you that he can diagnose anything he sees out of an opposing defense. His understanding and command of the Steeler offense is also as good as any other quarterback in this league. You have nothing to base your assertions on and the statistical evidence alone is enough to debunk your claim.

As far as the trick play goes...I agree that it wasn't necessarily a bad call, but it certainly wasn't a necessary one. We had that defense on the ropes. If it worked, it would have been a brilliant call in everyone's mind. However, you're not going to audible out of the call because they have two deep safeties who can "see the play". Your hope is that the safeties bite on pass to Brown and the defense flows towards him, leaving someone uncovered or with a step on their defender down field.

I have more of a problem with the design than the call. The intent was clearly and emphatically telegraphed with the backwards pass. Then Brown ran across the formation, which gave the defense time to recover downfield and hunt him down in the wash. To top it off, it looked like there was only one receiver in pattern down field with nobody even crossing back across with Brown or releasing down the middle. Maybe I missed someone, but that's what it looked like on replay.

The clock management is definitely on Tomlin. But to say that Ben is too stupid to be relied upon to call a time out in crunch time is again absurd. It seems to me as if you are inferring that you know how to better manage the clock, yet our own Super Bowl-winning Pro Bowl veteran quarterback is not cerebral enough to grasp such nuances of the game. Either element of that is laughable. The fact that you rag on the football ignorance of other fans really makes this all kind of funny...in an ironic and pathetic way.

[feltdizz]

Unbunch your panties. Ben is a HOF QB - gamer, winner, amazing passer, but he's not a smart signal caller. There's no shame in that, it just is what it is. We won four Super Bowls with a similar guy in the 70s.

exactly... lol.

[feltdizz]

I think you're tossing out a bunch of crap here. Attacking Ben's quarterbacking acumen is absurd. The primary evolution in his game has been from the head up and I guarantee you that he can diagnose anything he sees out of an opposing defense. His understanding and command of the Steeler offense is also as good as any other quarterback in this league. You have nothing to base your assertions on and the statistical evidence alone is enough to debunk your claim.

As far as the trick play goes...I agree that it wasn't necessarily a bad call, but it certainly wasn't a necessary one. We had that defense on the ropes. If it worked, it would have been a brilliant call in everyone's mind. However, you're not going to audible out of the call because they have two deep safeties who can "see the play". Your hope is that the safeties bite on pass to Brown and the defense flows towards him, leaving someone uncovered or with a step on their defender down field.

I have more of a problem with the design than the call. The intent was clearly and emphatically telegraphed with the backwards pass. Then Brown ran across the formation, which gave the defense time to recover downfield and hunt him down in the wash. To top it off, it looked like there was only one receiver in pattern down field with nobody even crossing back across with Brown or releasing down the middle. Maybe I missed someone, but that's what it looked like on replay.

The clock management is definitely on Tomlin. But to say that Ben is too stupid to be relied upon to call a time out in crunch time is again absurd. It seems to me as if you are inferring that you know how to better manage the clock, yet our own Super Bowl-winning Pro Bowl veteran quarterback is not cerebral enough to grasp such nuances of the game. Either element of that is laughable. The fact that you rag on the football ignorance of other fans really makes this all kind of funny...in an ironic and pathetic way.

Well... not to defend 7up but how long did it take for Ben to change his game? It's year 11 so it's not surprising that he has full command of this offense but with all these weapons he should have way more points on the board. It's not all his fault, others make mistakes as well but how many times have we talked about poor clock management and how Ben should have used a TO in crunch time?

I don't know who made that call for the trick play but it was one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen given how well the O was moving the ball. You set a team up to run that play in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Who the hell runs that play on the first drive?

[Mr.wizard]

My question is how do you know? How do you know the pats where not in the right defense for that trick play? How do you know what Ben checks in and out of during a game? I see him all the time yelling, alert! alert! or kill! kill! at line, that usually indicates he is changing the play. It's so easy to play arm chair QB after the play is over and say wow that didn't work he should have checked out of the play. Trick plays are not run on a whim, Field position, down and distance, and defensive personnel packages all dictate when a trick play is called, they work on these play all the time and they thought they had the right situation for it.

[birtikidis]

Well... not to defend 7up but how long did it take for Ben to change his game? It's year 11 so it's not surprising that he has full command of this offense but with all these weapons he should have way more points on the board. It's not all his fault, others make mistakes as well but how many times have we talked about poor clock management and how Ben should have used a TO in crunch time?

I don't know who made that call for the trick play but it was one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen given how well the O was moving the ball. You set a team up to run that play in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Who the hell runs that play on the first drive?
I remember in year two that Ben stated during an interview how he had freedom to call his own plays and run the offense how he wanted. We laughed at the Bengals and another team because their qb's didn't have the freedom to do so.

[DBR96A]

With 2:39 left in the 1st quarter against the Bills, I saw Andrew Luck force an underthrown ball deep into double coverage. He must not be one of those, uh, what's the word the faux connoisseurs of QBing use? Ah, yes, "cerebral." Andrew Luck must not be one of those types of QBs for doing such a thing.

Hmmm, and the Bills just scored a TD and took the lead.

[feltdizz]

With 2:39 left in the 1st quarter against the Bills, I saw Andrew Luck force an underthrown ball deep into double coverage. He must not be one of those, uh, what's the word the faux connoisseurs of QBing use? Ah, yes, "cerebral." Andrew Luck must not be one of those types of QBs for doing such a thing.

Hmmm, and the Bills just scored a TD and took the lead.

LOL... Andrew Luck throws a ton of INT's and also takes a lot of sacks.

Is this going to be one of those threads where every incompletion is posted to prove Ben is a good QB?

pretty sure everyone will agree Ben is one of the best.

[NorthCoast]

OMG. It was one play in the first game of the season and fans are already expecting perfection in playcalling and execution. You can question the OC for the original call but everyone knows Roethlisberger loves the big play so chances of him audibling out are slim. He is fine in hurry up and shows he can make good calls. It's not like he goes suddenly braindead in the normal offense.

[DBR96A]

LOL... Andrew Luck throws a ton of INT's and also takes a lot of sacks.

Is this going to be one of those threads where every incompletion is posted to prove Ben is a good QB?

pretty sure everyone will agree Ben is one of the best.

Well, when people boldly proclaim that Roethlisberger is "dumb" compared to other QBs and then start dropping other QBs' names, don't be surprised if the stupid **** these other QBs do gets noticed. Besides, we're all trying to see exactly what it is that makes these QBs so mentally superior, supposedly. Yet when I was watching Andrew Luck, I just saw him do the same damn thing that Steeler fans have been reaming Roethlisberger for. Plain and simple, if Roethlisberger's critics don't want anybody airing other QBs' dirty laundry, then they shouldn't bring up other QBs, period. (And whether or not they were explicitly brought up in this topic doesn't matter; they've been brought up plenty of other times on this message board.)

The Colts just got shut out in the first half of this game. It's 17-0 Bills at halftime..

[feltdizz]

I think Andrew Luck is propped up by the media way too much.

However, I don't think anyone is talking about completions and incompletio,s when criticizing Ben's QB acumen. I think it's more so time mismanagement and taking 8 or 9 years to check down effectively.

I think Peyton Manning has the best IQ in the game... but this,doesn't mean he isn't a choker in the playoffs and doesn't make bad throws.

I get it, Ben is your guy and you don't think he has any flaws in his game.

I also think Shaq had a low basketball IQ but he is still one of the best centers to ever play in the NBA.

[DBR96A]

I get it, Ben is your guy and you don't think he has any flaws in his game.

No, you clearly don't get it. I've literally never, anywhere, said that Roethlisberger is perfect. All I've said is that most of these other QBs that you and all the other phony-ass, self-appointed connoisseurs of QBing put on a pedestal above him are no better than him, not even mentally. There are only three QBs in the NFL who have consistently demonstrated more football acumen than Roethlisberger: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. End of list. If Roethlisberger's football intelligence was subpar, then he never would have improved his game in any way. He'd be the same QB he was in 2007, 2008, 2009. Meanwhile, I've read Peter King saying that no other QB in the NFL has evolved as much in the last five years as Roethlisberger has; and I've read Greg Cosell, who watches game film for a living, saying that his pocket passing skills are a shockingly underrated aspect of his game. Roethlisberger's INT percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2009, and his sack percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2010, and people still want to act like he has a learning deficit? If anything, the fact that his style of play has changed so radically in recent years proves that there was a teaching deficit, if anything. Face it; QBs who are "kinda dumb" don't change their style of play as radically as Roethlisberger did between 2011 and 2014. They just don't. If you disagree, then you are wrong (again).

[feltdizz]

No, you clearly don't get it. I've literally never, anywhere, said that Roethlisberger is perfect. All I've said is that most of these other QBs that you and all the other phony-ass, self-appointed connoisseurs of QBing put on a pedestal above him are no better than him, not even mentally. There are only three QBs in the NFL who have consistently demonstrated more football acumen than Roethlisberger: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. End of list. If Roethlisberger's football intelligence was subpar, then he never would have improved his game in any way. He'd be the same QB he was in 2007, 2008, 2009. Meanwhile, I've read Peter King saying that no other QB in the NFL has evolved as much in the last five years as Roethlisberger has; and I've read Greg Cosell, who watches game film for a living, saying that his pocket passing skills are a shockingly underrated aspect of his game. Roethlisberger's INT percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2009, and his sack percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2010, and people still want to act like he has a learning deficit? If anything, the fact that his style of play has changed so radically in recent years proves that there was a teaching deficit, if anything. Face it; QBs who are "kinda dumb" don't change their style of play as radically as Roethlisberger did between 2011 and 2014. They just don't. If you disagree, then you are wrong (again).

you sound mad

first off, i,never put out a list of who was smarter and even if I did... it doesn't mean they are "better" than Ben. Ben has more talent than 99% of QB's in the NFL, but that doesn't mean he has a better IQ at the position than some of those other QB's.

You can try and spin it like Ben had this desire to change his game but we forced him to change by firing his OC. Ben didn't wake up one day and start checking down... he woke up one day and found out his OC was fired because they refused to check down and change their philosophy on offense. If it was up to Ben he would still be a vertical offense with BA because Ben always believed they were close to turning a corner and becoming explosive when it was obvious we were feast or famine and needed a top 5 D to save their behinds.

Ben is a top 5 QB and a future HOF. I think your emotions are getting the best of you because you think a few people saying Ben isn't one of the smarter QB's means he isn't one of the best.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.

[DBR96A]

You can try and spin it like Ben had this desire to change his game but we forced him to change by firing his OC. Ben didn't wake up one day and start checking down... he woke up one day and found out his OC was fired because they refused to check down and change their philosophy on offense.

If Roethlisberger had no desire to change, then he never would have changed, regardless of who the offensive coordinator was. Nobody can force another person to learn anything if they don't want to learn, period. The fact that Roethlisberger's style of play changed so radically from one offensive coordinator to the next illustrates a desire, by him, to change. He's made liars out of everybody who's ever accused him of being uncoachable. Furthermore, the fact that his style of play changed so radically in such a short period of time illustrates that he's a lot more savvy at what he does than you or any of the other QB snobs have ever given him credit for. QBs who are "pretty dumb" don't change their style of play so completely or quickly. QBs who "aren't that smart" don't average 51 pass attempts per INT over the course of five years. The reason Roethlisberger never reached his potential under Bruce Arians is because Arians never taught him properly. Todd Haley didn't just sprinkle magic checkdown dust on him to make him get rid of the ball quicker. People who change, change themselves, just as Roethlisberger has.

[feltdizz]

Todd Haley didn't just sprinkle magic checkdown dust on him to make him get rid of the ball quicker. People who change, change themselves, just as Roethlisberger has.

yeah.. i disagree with this statement. If Ben changed himself he would have done it before Arians was fired.

He had help and that's OK.

[feltdizz]

Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.

I don't know anyone who thinks Eli is cerebral..lol. Not one person.

They are getting crucified over this decision.

[WindyCitySteel]

Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.

Agreed, that was awful, but it's not a zero sum game. Ben still exhibits poor situational awareness.

[DBR96A]

yeah.. i disagree with this statement. If Ben changed himself he would have done it before Arians was fired.

He had help and that's OK.

And if he didn't want to change, then there's nothing Todd Haley could have done. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I don't know anyone who thinks Eli is cerebral..lol. Not one person.

They are getting crucified over this decision.

Well, Eli's a Manning, and Mannings tend to be thought of as cerebral QB's in general (at least more cerebral than ol' lunkhead Roethlisbergers anyways).

I realize now that the Giants are getting crucified for this, but I wrote this last night as the game was ending, so I hadn't had the opportunity to see any of the media backlash yet.

[MCHammer]

The truth is Ben is pretty dumb as far as QB IQ goes. He has never and will never be the kind of QB like Peyton, Manning, Luck, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc that calls successful audibles, has good pre-snap recognition or call for blitz protections. He also is in love with the big play and for most of his career (until Haley finally got him to buy in) he wouldn't take the easier underneath outlets or run (did this in Pats game too). That said, nobody in the history of the league is better at improvisation or extending plays and certainly harder to get down. You take the good with the bad.

The infamous trick play call that killed that drive wasn't a bad call but once the defense showed zone with the safeties able to see the play unfolding before them it should have been changed by Ben at the LOS. Somehow fans that just don't understand football blame Haley. We've now had 11 years of history that shows this sort of play is really on Ben.

The clock management is really on Tomlin. Again...Ben is not cerebral so expecting him to do this is asking too much.

So Ben is too dumb to handle advanced concepts such as time passing before his eyes, but he should have been able to read the defense and know Haley's idiotic and unnecessary trick play wouldn't work (even though you wrote just a few sentences before Ben lacks pre-snap recognition of other top tier QBs).

:confused:

[skyhawk]

I can't even gather what to say after seeing all this Ben is dumb BS. The guy can apparently never win some fans' approval no matter what he does.

The fact that he even went to a THIRD super bowl without even a smidge of a decent offensive line and constantly being unselfish in sacrificing his body. Now he is feeding two of the best offensive players the Steelers have ever had. The guy has done it all and some are never happy. I just gotta SMH to all of this.
'

[NorthCoast]

I still put more blame on Haley. He takes the ball out of Ben's hands too much in the RZ.

Uh. Not true.

In the last 3 years Roethlisberger is 3rd in the NFL for pass attempts in the redzone.

The damning part? He is 20th in the NFL in RZ touchdowns. There are a whole lot of NFL QBs that score more often in fewer attempts.

[Flasteel]

Agreed, that was awful, but it's not a zero sum game. Ben still exhibits poor situational awareness.

Really. Because in the last two minutes of either half or in the no-huddle - whenever he is in complete control of the offense - there's nobody better in the league. At least nobody I'd rather have.

[skyhawk]

Uh. Not true.

In the last 3 years Roethlisberger is 3rd in the NFL for pass attempts in the redzone.

The damning part? He is 20th in the NFL in RZ touchdowns. There are a whole lot of NFL QBs that score more often in fewer attempts.

Damn. :(

[feltdizz]

Uh. Not true.

In the last 3 years Roethlisberger is 3rd in the NFL for pass attempts in the redzone.

The damning part? He is 20th in the NFL in RZ touchdowns. There are a whole lot of NFL QBs that score more often in fewer attempts.

ouch... funny how perception can cloud reality.

[feltdizz]

Really. Because in the last two minutes of either half or in the no-huddle - whenever he is in complete control of the offense - there's nobody better in the league. At least nobody I'd rather have.

Yeah... I don't think this is true at all.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/18/nfl-quarterbacks-two-minute-drill-analytics

[feltdizz]

I can't even gather what to say after seeing all this Ben is dumb BS. The guy can apparently never win some fans' approval no matter what he does.

The fact that he even went to a THIRD super bowl without even a smidge of a decent offensive line and constantly being unselfish in sacrificing his body. Now he is feeding two of the best offensive players the Steelers have ever had. The guy has done it all and some are never happy. I just gotta SMH to all of this.
'

or you can step back and realize saying he isn't that smart doesn't mean he isn't one of the best to ever do it.

Charles Haley was a great football player and the guy couldn't read. Being a great football player doesn't mean you are smart. LOL...

Look at his RZ rankings. Obviously he isn't making the smartest decisions in the RZ even though he puts up monster stats between the 20's. Even with 2 great weapons we struggle to score TD's. Back with BA there were times when we went 10 or 11 qtrs without a TD. I'll never forget the Washington game in 2008 where we all thought the OL sucked and this is why Ben was struggling. Leftwitch came in and marched us down the field on our first drive of the second half and made it look easy.

Ben is a Hofer but it's because he is/was BIG Ben... it's certainly isn't because he could read defenses and shred them apart. It's because he is big enough to shed defenders, extend plays and make magic happen downfield.

We have a great offense and we haven't won ANYTHING yet and a big reason why is because we can't score TD's.

[WindyCitySteel]

I don't put it all on Ben in the red zone. When you take AB and Williams off the field and bring in Nix and Will Johnson, you should have your head examined.

[Slapstick]

They scored a TD with Nix and Johnson. The OL jumped when the Pats** simulated the snap, they moved back 5 yards and those guys came off the field.

[feltdizz]

I don't put it all on Ben in the red zone. When you take AB and Williams off the field and bring in Nix and Will Johnson, you should have your head examined.

well, if I see those guys in the backfield I'm thinking pass. LOL

[RuthlessBurgher]

I don't put it all on Ben in the red zone. When you take AB and Williams off the field and bring in Nix and Will Johnson, you should have your head examined.

Hopefully we never see that again once Bell comes back (I'll vote for Nix moving down to the P.S. upon Le'Veon's return).

[NorthCoast]

I don't put it all on Ben in the red zone. When you take AB and Williams off the field and bring in Nix and Will Johnson, you should have your head examined.


Just to be clear, we are talking about RZ passing. TDs per pass attempt in the RZ, Roethlisberger is in the bottom half of the league. and this extends to pre-AB years...

I blame it all on Dick LeBeau.... senile old goat.