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Steelhere10
04-20-2015, 11:03 AM
Workouts, looking for new deal.

Steelhere10
04-20-2015, 11:05 AM
It could be the reason the Steelers have been bringing in many wr for visits.

K Train
04-20-2015, 11:06 AM
Not surprised at all considering Torrey Smith and Pierre Garcon make more than him now

Steelhere10
04-20-2015, 11:11 AM
I hope the Steelers don't play hardball, and pay maybe a back loaded deal.

squidkid
04-20-2015, 11:55 AM
f. him.....

Steelhere10
04-20-2015, 12:16 PM
I just read his guaranteed money is ranked 27 worst in the league or the lowest, maybe he does have a point.

squidkid
04-20-2015, 12:31 PM
[QUOTE=Steelhere10;642750]I just read his guaranteed money is ranked 27 worst in the league or the lowest, maybe he does have a point.[/QUOTE

i'm sure if he keeps producing he will see all of the money in his contract that he agreed to play for

Oviedo
04-20-2015, 12:38 PM
Very disappointed if AB goes this route. He is one of the thre or four best WRs in the NFL but his cap hit for 2015 is also over $9M so he can't dry poor.

The problem is other teams like the Dolphins pay a bum like Wallace stupid money that distorts the whole system.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-20-2015, 12:40 PM
its all wallaces fault!!!!

birtikidis
04-20-2015, 12:51 PM
So if he wants a new deal, how does it effect the restructure he JUST did last year? I hate these restructures because it pushes money into the future and it's guaranteed money. If they work out a new deal, is that guaranteed money from the restructure still owed and on the books?

K Train
04-20-2015, 01:01 PM
his average guaranteed per year was like $1.7 million

people scoff at this so hard, but he gave the steelers elite production for two cheap seasons after they bet on him with the new deal (that he hadnt really earned at that point)

The restructuring is irrelevant. they wont negotiate a new deal with 3 years remaining...they may extend and reallocate some of his already due later salary into bonuses more up front but the "pushing the money" argument is a dumb one

Slapstick
04-20-2015, 01:10 PM
So if he wants a new deal, how does it effect the restructure he JUST did last year? I hate these restructures because it pushes money into the future and it's guaranteed money. If they work out a new deal, is that guaranteed money from the restructure still owed and on the books?

Once the bonus money is given, it doesn't go away...

birtikidis
04-20-2015, 01:14 PM
Once the bonus money is given, it doesn't go away...
That's what I thought and why I hate restructured contracts. He probably deserves a new deal, but they screwed themselves by restructuring his last one.

hawaiiansteel
04-20-2015, 01:17 PM
It could be the reason the Steelers have been bringing in many wr for visits.

yeah, I didn't make that connection at all until I heard this news but that's undoubtedly why the Steelers have been hosting so many potentional first and second round WRs...

K Train
04-20-2015, 01:20 PM
That's what I thought and why I hate restructured contracts. He probably deserves a new deal, but they screwed themselves by restructuring his last one.

No they didnt, especially since the deal ended up being the bargain of the decade

They got the cheap deal, were able to make it even more flexible with the restructures for two years...now they will probbaly pay him the 10-11 million he deserves rather than the 6 he is getting now

hawaiiansteel
04-20-2015, 01:25 PM
Column: AB’s holdout threat hypocritical, hollow

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/461058280.jpg

Antonio Brown emerges from the Heinz Field tunnel for the playoff game vs. Baltimore.

BY DEJAN KOVACEVIC
APRIL 20, 2015

Antonio Brown didn’t show for the opening of the Steelers’ voluntary workouts this morning on the South Side, and he might not show for quite a while if his existing contract isn’t redone, according to multiple media reports headed by Mike Garafolo of Fox Sports.

I’d like not to believe this.

I’d like not to have it so much as breach my brain that Brown could be so hypocritical that he’d attempt an act this hollow when he isn’t even halfway through the five-year, $42 million extension he happily signed just two years ago.

I’d like not to, but what’s the option?

Brown won’t talk about this today and, in fact, we might not hear from him any sooner than we see him. That’s how these holdouts tend to work. Agents advise their clients to lay low. And Brown’s agent, Drew Rosenhaus, is the very best in his business, better known than most of his clients.

But that’s OK, you know, because here’s what Brown already has had plenty to say about his existing contract, if one can turn the calendar way, way back to, oh, July 28, 2012, and a press conference at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe:

• “It’s special. With a unique organization such as the Steelers, knowing I’m going to be around here for the long term is something amazing and really special. It’s something I take pride in, and I know that it’s a tremendous honor.”

• “It provides me with some security and allows me to play football and focus on winning games.”

• “What I do realize is that I’ve been given a great opportunity to be around an organization that is really special. I’m really honored and thankful about that. All I can do now is work to give them my best as long as I’m here.”

This is where this column could end, in all candor. A signed contract is a signed contract. Kevin Colbert signed it for the Steelers. And Brown signed it, with the enthusiastic backing of Rosenhaus.

That’s how this works.

Sure, the NFL is different than the other three major professional sports in that it doesn’t guarantee contracts. That gives teams more leverage and, both theoretically and in reality, allows them to reduce the amount paid to a player who under-performs. It isn’t always fair, in this context alone.

That said, Brown’s case is anything but Exhibit A. Or X, Y or Z, for that matter.

The Steelers have gone above and beyond where he’s concerned from day he was drafted in the sixth round out of Central Michigan, undersized at 5 feet 10 and mostly raw. They gave him a shot when everyone else passed more than a handful of times. They hooked him up with an elite quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger. That “great opportunity” Brown cited in that 2012 press conference was very real.

And it became that much greater with the extension itself because, with that stroke of the pen, Colbert and Mike Tomlin made what a lot of folks felt was a bold if not dubious decision in choosing to invest in Brown rather than big-play man Mike Wallace. Wallace was fresh off a season in which he caught a career-high 72 passes for 1,193 yards and eight touchdowns. He was only 26. He was seen as one of the top stretch-the-field receivers in the game.

Brown?

He’d only made three career starts to that point.

The Steelers chose Brown and let Wallace walk, and no one needs to be told that was maybe the smartest single personnel move of the Colbert/Tomlin tenure, even topping the drafting of Le’Veon Bell. And not just because Wallace’s career has been a dumpster fire since departing.

Colbert and Tomlin had Brown’s back. And now, apparently, he’s ready to turn his back on them.

That’s too bad. Really is.

In addition to being a brilliant receiver, the very best in the league in 2014 and on pace to be the very best in a franchise lore that already boasts Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Louis Lipps and Hines Ward, Brown exceeds all superlatives when it comes to his work ethic, dedication and leadership. In practice, he puts his fellow receivers through every rigor he himself endures. That’s why that group is invariably last off the field. In games, even on plays when he knows the ball isn’t headed his way, he commits to every route and sprints out every step. And on a personal level, I rank Brown among my absolutely favorites with any local sports team. He’s a gem in every way.

If he’s getting bad advice, he needs to rise above. The Steelers aren’t about to set any precedent for restructuring contracts, not for Brown, not for Rosenhaus, not for anyone. If it didn’t work for the iconic Ward — he crawled back to Latrobe after a 15-day holdout in 2005 — it won’t work for anyone. The Rooneys still run the place, last I checked.

If he’s being told bad information, he needs to do his own math. He’ll make $6 million this season, $8.25 million in 2016, $8.71 million in 2017, all non-guaranteed. That’s unquestionably below his performance level. But the fact is, not many NFL receivers are getting a ton more, unless one counts the $12.82 million deals Deymarius Thomas and Dez Bryant are about to get on franchise tags, which are almost always outside the norm. And, of course, the chief outlier in Calvin Johnson’s $16.2 million.

And if Brown thought of this himself … well, he needs to rethink this particular route. And recommit.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/04/20/column-abs-holdout-threat-hypocritical-hollow/

squidkid
04-20-2015, 01:26 PM
No they didnt, especially since the deal ended up being the bargain of the decade

They got the cheap deal, were able to make it even more flexible with the restructures for two years...now they will probbaly pay him the 10-11 million he deserves rather than the 6 he is getting now


it was a good deal for both sides.

steelz09
04-20-2015, 01:40 PM
Trade him for Ray, Cooper and a few more draft pics.

birtikidis
04-20-2015, 01:46 PM
I'd let him sit until he comes crawling back. AB is probably my favorite player on the team. But no player is greater than the team.
Like I said, He probably deserves more money, but he has played two years of his current deal.

squidkid
04-20-2015, 01:48 PM
I'd let him sit until he comes crawling back. AB is probably my favorite player on the team. But no player is greater than the team.
Like I said, He probably deserves more money, but he has played two years of his current deal.


i dont see where brown has any leverage.
whats he gonna do, sit out 3 years?
hows that ,"looking out for my family" excuse going to work out if you go 3 years without a paycheck?

hawaiiansteel
04-20-2015, 01:49 PM
I'd let him sit until he comes crawling back. AB is probably my favorite player on the team. But no player is greater than the team.

Like I said, He probably deserves more money, but he has played two years of his current deal.

I agree with you, the Steelers are not about to set a precedent of renegotiating contracts that still have 3 years remaining...

Steelhere10
04-20-2015, 01:49 PM
With three years left, they don't have to do a thing. Maybe they should or just let him rot away a career.

papillon
04-20-2015, 02:23 PM
The Steelers still have Ben Roethlisberger and probably 3 or 4 elite level years from him. What's Brown's worth in a trade prior to draft day? Would a team drafting in the top 10 take AB for their 1st and maybe a 4th? Or more? The Bears look to be taking Kevin White. Would they be willing to give up the 1.7 for a "proven" WR and not a rookie? In all likelihood the Steelers would be able to draft Waynes at 1.7 and take what falls to 1.22. They would in all likelihood be upgrading two positions very cheap by trading Brown for a 1st round pick and downgrading one. The upgrades would be on the side of the ball that needs to be upgraded and the downgrade on the side of the ball that carried the team last year. And, with Ben, he can make up for the downgrade.

One thing that Colbert/Tomlin have been pretty good at is finding WRs and getting them productive quickly. If I got the right deal for AB, I'd trade him and is cheap contract to another team and then Rosenhaus would have to open negotiation with an entirely new team to increase AB's salary. The Steelers have the elite quarterback, a nice stable of WRs behind AB (including Bell at RB) and all the leverage. I'm not sure who is giving him this advice, but AB should fire him/her, extend the olive branch back to the Steelers and move on with his career.

Pappy

Shawn
04-20-2015, 02:23 PM
There is certainly a risk that he decides to squat on his contract. With that said, I say let him try it.

steelblood
04-20-2015, 02:23 PM
I love Brown. He is underpaid at this point.

However, the Steelers cannot tear up his deal. They won't renegotiate a deal with three years on it. It sets a precedent that they cannot afford.

But, really, this can be easily solved. Tell him we won't tear up his current deal, but we can negotiate a two year extension. Final offer = Two years 20 million with 6 million guaranteed. If Brown stays healthy, this should be a relative bargain. He should still be very effective as he'd only be around 29-30 years old. It is not a horrible risk, Brown gets another 6 million now in case of injury, and if it plays out as it should, we get Brown for two more years at a fair price. Brown may not love the deal, but he has little to bargain with and may take the deal for the peace of mind.

pfelix73
04-20-2015, 02:32 PM
Trade bait? :stirpot

phillyesq
04-20-2015, 02:34 PM
Of the $42 million contract that he signed, Brown has roughly $23 million remaining in base salaries for 2015 - 2017. Which means that he made roughly $19 million since he signed the contract. It's been a great deal for both sides. Remember, AB had only 3 career starts when he signed the deal. His pay at the time out-performed his production. Players, Rosenhaus clients in particular, always seem to forget about the early years of their deal. Having AB for $23 million over the next 3 years is a great bargain; but he got paid earlier than he had to and did quite well for himself early on.

squidkid
04-20-2015, 02:39 PM
I love Brown. He is underpaid at this point.

However, the Steelers cannot tear up his deal. They won't renegotiate a deal with three years on it. It sets a precedent that they cannot afford.

But, really, this can be easily solved. Tell him we won't tear up his current deal, but we can negotiate a two year extension. Final offer = Two years 20 million with 6 million guaranteed. If Brown stays healthy, this should be a relative bargain. He should still be very effective as he'd only be around 29-30 years old. It is not a horrible risk, Brown gets another 6 million now in case of injury, and if it plays out as it should, we get Brown for two more years at a fair price. Brown may not love the deal, but he has little to bargain with and may take the deal for the peace of mind.


the easiest solution is to tell brown "we already gave you an extension 2 years earlier than we had to, or than you deserved. come see us 2 years from now"

papillon
04-20-2015, 02:44 PM
Trade bait? :stirpot

See my post above. ;)

Pappy

birtikidis
04-20-2015, 03:14 PM
The Steelers still have Ben Roethlisberger and probably 3 or 4 elite level years from him. What's Brown's worth in a trade prior to draft day? Would a team drafting in the top 10 take AB for their 1st and maybe a 4th? Or more? The Bears look to be taking Kevin White. Would they be willing to give up the 1.7 for a "proven" WR and not a rookie? In all likelihood the Steelers would be able to draft Waynes at 1.7 and take what falls to 1.22. They would in all likelihood be upgrading two positions very cheap by trading Brown for a 1st round pick and downgrading one. The upgrades would be on the side of the ball that needs to be upgraded and the downgrade on the side of the ball that carried the team last year. And, with Ben, he can make up for the downgrade.

One thing that Colbert/Tomlin have been pretty good at is finding WRs and getting them productive quickly. If I got the right deal for AB, I'd trade him and is cheap contract to another team and then Rosenhaus would have to open negotiation with an entirely new team to increase AB's salary. The Steelers have the elite quarterback, a nice stable of WRs behind AB (including Bell at RB) and all the leverage. I'm not sure who is giving him this advice, but AB should fire him/her, extend the olive branch back to the Steelers and move on with his career.

Pappy
Pap, I agree with being able to upgrade by getting waynes, but there isn't a receiver in this draft that is an upgrade over Brown. I've seen plenty of #1 receivers who never caught 129 passes in their career, let alone a year.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-20-2015, 03:15 PM
I'm always torn about these things. ON the one hand, a contract is a contract, a handshake is a handshake, and breaking that is like breaking one's word.

But, from the player's point of view, they know their "contract" can be torn up in an instant if they get injured ... so the incentive to do things like work stoppages (which I guess is a term that can be used for "sitting out") is not small.

I'm sure it will work out, but I hope there is no bad blood left over ...

Snatch98
04-20-2015, 03:16 PM
We do not want Brown going anywhere else. He deserves a new contract I just wish he went about it differently. Rosenhaus is a bit of a schmuck but this is on Brown. Could he not just approach the team? Or maybe he did and they told him to pound sand.

squidkid
04-20-2015, 03:21 PM
We do not want Brown going anywhere else. He deserves a new contract I just wish he went about it differently. Rosenhaus is a bit of a schmuck but this is on Brown. Could he not just approach the team? Or maybe he did and they told him to pound sand.


why do you think he deserves a new contract?
42 million over 5 years= 8+ a year
he was over paid the first couple years and now underpaid 1 year.(if we are using production compared to other wrs) who knows what he does the next 3.
if he and his agent didnt like the contract, they shouldnt have signed it.

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 03:21 PM
its all wallaces fault!!!!

curse you, young moneyyyy!!!

K Train
04-20-2015, 03:23 PM
why do you think he deserves a new contract?
42 million over 5 years= 8+ a year
he was over paid the first couple years and now underpaid 1 year.(if we are using production compared to other wrs) who knows what he does the next 3.
if he and his agent didnt like the contract, they shouldnt have signed it.
They could end up just guaranteeing a large portion of his remaining contract and tack on an additional 1-2 years. The restructures have allowed him to turn some salary into bonus but the deal originally guaranteed him 1.7 million a year which is very low considering his production

RuthlessBurgher
04-20-2015, 03:24 PM
cure you, young moneyyyy!!!

curse you, letter "s"!!!! ;)

Snatch98
04-20-2015, 03:25 PM
why do you think he deserves a new contract?
42 million over 5 years= 8+ a year
he was over paid the first couple years and now underpaid 1 year.(if we are using production compared to other wrs) who knows what he does the next 3.
if he and his agent didnt like the contract, they shouldnt have signed it.

Fair argument. He may be the best in the league right now, deserves is probably a poor choice of words. He has earned more money BUT he was paid without a whole lot of performance. I think its just a bump in the road. He won't miss training camp.

K Train
04-20-2015, 03:26 PM
Missing training camp costs a fortune now with the fining system

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 03:27 PM
curse you, letter "s"!!!! ;)

man, you guys are fat ;)

papillon
04-20-2015, 04:31 PM
Pap, I agree with being able to upgrade by getting waynes, but there isn't a receiver in this draft that is an upgrade over Brown. I've seen plenty of #1 receivers who never caught 129 passes in their career, let alone a year.

I agree, but what I'm saying is that between having Ben and Tomlin/Colbert's ability to find WR talent in nearly any round of the draft I'm not that concerned trading AB away and the Steelers getting to draft in the top 10 this year and, in all likelihood another rather premium pick this year or next. Losing AB would suck, but this particular FO has proven to be able to find WR talent in the draft. I wouldn't concede anything to AB, he signed a deal that overpaid him early after 3 starts and is now paying him "OK" money for his production. If he thought he was going to be the best WR in the league he could have not signed the deal and let things play out. He opted for 42 million dollars worth of security and now he has to live with his pay scale. The Steelers aren't ruthless and in all likelihood if he produces again this year they will talk to him about an extension and paying him very well. I just don't see it happening less than 1/2 way into the contract he signed.

Pappy

Oviedo
04-20-2015, 04:33 PM
its all wallaces fault!!!!

Actually it is Miami's fault for giving a WR who is decent but not great top flight money. It just distorts the system and was a bad deal for the Dolphins which is why they couldn't get rid of Wallace fast enough in the off season.

Slapstick
04-20-2015, 05:25 PM
Brown may have been overpaid in year one, but only if you count the signing bonus. He has absolutely not been overpaid over the last two seasons: well over 200+ catches, 3000+ yards and 20+ TDs

He is not currently being paid like the best WR in the game, but that was the risk he took in order to take the security of an $8.5 million bonus and a 5 year deal. I agree that there is no way that the Steelers should or would agree to renegotiate two years into a five year deal.

But, he has not been overpaid by any means...

K Train
04-20-2015, 05:30 PM
I could really see them guaranteeing a high percentage of his remaining deal

Chadman
04-20-2015, 05:53 PM
How nice of AB to give Wheaton an opportunity to show what he can do as the #1. Isn't that the way it works? WR's are replaceable. Ben makes them who they are. The board got all over Hines Ward for holding out, labelled Wallace greedy for demanding his money- Brown gets the same. He got his deal. Boo Hoo if he regrets the value of it now. Trade him, move on.

K Train
04-20-2015, 05:55 PM
Im suprised Brown is being treated like the anti christ for this....like message boards take this much more personally than the steelers front office

Chadman
04-20-2015, 06:13 PM
Im suprised Brown is being treated like the anti christ for this....like message boards take this much more personally than the steelers front office

On the other hand the board is quick to anoint him a saint, or other players as evil....

As good as he is, it's a 'next man up' position. There are other WR's that can do the job...

K Train
04-20-2015, 06:23 PM
On the other hand the board is quick to anoint him a saint, or other players as evil....

As good as he is, it's a 'next man up' position. There are other WR's that can do the job...

Oh is that right lol....2nd all time in receptions in a season does not happen very frequently. If more WRs could catch 5+ passes in every game for 2 seasons dont you think we would see it happen sometimes?

If you can find one play last season where brown wasnt open at some point Id be very interested. Lets not act like elite production is replaceable with any 6th round pick off the street of small michigan schools.

The guy lives an breathes football and has looked like Jerry Rice for two seasons now. He might have the 13th highest salary for a WR on a per year basis but only 20% was guaranteed...meanwhile Torrey Smith....TORREY SMITH, just signed the same deal with over half guaranteed. Smith has caught 5 passes in a game 15 times in his career...brown has done it 48 times in the last 4 seasons, including 30 some in a row now.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-20-2015, 06:31 PM
Actually it is Miami's fault for giving a WR who is decent but not great top flight money. It just distorts the system and was a bad deal for the Dolphins which is why they couldn't get rid of Wallace fast enough in the off season.

You castigated Mike Wallace for wanting his market value, now AB wants his deal torn up less than halfway thru and somehow you want to pin this on Wallace and Miami. Here's a fact, Mike Wallace wasn't the first WR and he won't be the last to be overpaid by some desperate team with alot of cap space. your blindspot for him is insane

AB needs to shut his mouth and show up, IMO. If the steelers want to guarantee a large chunck of remaining salary, immfine with that as he is a great player, but this doesn't reflect well and you would have absolutely hammered Wallace for it.

Show some consistency

Chadman
04-20-2015, 06:33 PM
I probably didn't explain myself well enough- the position is a replaceable position. Will the next WR be as good as Brown? Probably not. Do the Steelers need a WR to play as well as Brown to be successful? Probably not. His catches would be shared around by other players, but the production would still be there. Brown is clearly a very, very good player. But Ben was a successful QB before Brown, the Steelers were a successful team before Brown. It's a replaceable position.

Iron City Inc.
04-20-2015, 06:53 PM
Top 3 salaries are Megatron 16.2 Dez 12.8 and D Thomas 12.8 per year. So what is AB worth? We're paying him 8 per now with 3 years to go. He is a keeper so trading him is not something I would want to do at all. Adding a few 12 million per years on his contract gives us him for next 5 and he would have made himself a better deal n it would still be good for us. AB is special and at this point we know just how good he is so a deal like this may just be what both sides could live with. Toss him a bonus when he holds up the Lombardi.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-20-2015, 07:26 PM
Steelers took a chance on AB when he was unproven, and he gladly agreed to the deal. When he signed his latest contract, he got an $8.5 million signing bonus, and when he restructured last year, he happily took another $9.1 in "restructuring bonuses."

I like him a lot as a player. As a person? Not so much anymore. Glad I didn't buy a #84 jersey, as I was about to.

Got to agree with Chadman. Good a player as AB is, he's replaceable. Steelers have to take a serious look at getting another WR in the draft, and be ready to ship Brown's ar$$e if he holds out.

pittpete
04-20-2015, 07:30 PM
Brown has no leverage in this what so ever.....
He can sit out for 3 years and then we franchise him...
Invest your $$$$ wisely AB and in 2 years lets talk again..
Next

squidkid
04-20-2015, 07:39 PM
can you imagine what our team would look like if the steelers paid every player that the 'fans' said "pay the man"?
ben is elite, pay him top 3 money
lets give brown 12mil per now
bell is awesome, lets give him top 3 rb money
pouncey is best center is league, lets pay him like it
pay decastro too!
heyward is gonna be great, lock him up long term with a huge contract so he doesnt go anywhere
what happens to jarvis, shazier tuitt and bryant when they reach their potential. where's their money gonna come from?

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 07:54 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZT4czUIUAAxp69.jpg

Just sayin'

BradshawsHairdresser
04-20-2015, 07:56 PM
can you imagine what our team would look like if the steelers paid every player that the 'fans' said "pay the man"?
ben is elite, pay him top 3 money
lets give brown 12mil per now
bell is awesome, lets give him top 3 rb money
pouncey is best center is league, lets pay him like it
pay decastro too!
heyward is gonna be great, lock him up long term with a huge contract so he doesnt go anywhere
what happens to jarvis, shazier tuitt and bryant when they reach their potential. where's their money gonna come from?

You get it. But you're right...a lot of fans don't.

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 08:05 PM
You get it. But you're right...a lot of fans don't.

A lot of fans realize WR's will try to get as much money as possible when they are at the height of their career.

I don't know if he will get it but I'm not mad at him for trying. If and when his play declines we will ask him to take a discount. Its the business of football.

SidSmythe
04-20-2015, 08:23 PM
Pay the Man.

Big difference between he and Wallace. #1 is the fact he's the hardest working WR in the NFL.

hawaiiansteel
04-20-2015, 08:34 PM
Scott Brown, ESPN.com: "Brown and his camp have to know that they have virtually no leverage with three years still left on Brown’s contract. The Steelers aren’t going to budge as far as a new deal for several reasons: They simply don’t do new contracts with players who aren’t even halfway through their current one.

"And they are not about to start, especially since All-Pro running back Le’Veon Bell would demand a new contract before the ink dried on Brown’s new deal, and rightfully so.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Dont-expect-a-new-deal-for-Brown-writers-say-36880190

Mr.wizard
04-20-2015, 08:47 PM
Pay the man!

BradshawsHairdresser
04-20-2015, 08:50 PM
Scott Brown, ESPN.com: "Brown and his camp have to know that they have virtually no leverage with three years still left on Brown’s contract. The Steelers aren’t going to budge as far as a new deal for several reasons: They simply don’t do new contracts with players who aren’t even halfway through their current one.

"And they are not about to start, especially since All-Pro running back Le’Veon Bell would demand a new contract before the ink dried on Brown’s new deal, and rightfully so.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Dont-expect-a-new-deal-for-Brown-writers-say-36880190

$$$$
Exactly what Squid was talking about. If the Steelers opened that can of worms with Brown, how would they put the lid back on when other players (Bell, Heyward, Bryant, Pouncey, DeCastro, Timmons, etc.) decided mid-contract that they were underpaid and should also be able to tear up the old deal and get a new, better one?

Can't do it.

SidSmythe
04-20-2015, 08:54 PM
BEN has 5 yrs left.

BROWN is 27. Give him 5 yrs at $12 million. Give BELL his contract and everyone else can walk on offense. It's clear this offense is Ben, Brown and Bell.

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 09:01 PM
$$$$
Exactly what Squid was talking about. If the Steelers opened that can of worms with Brown, how would they put the lid back on when other players (Bell, Heyward, Bryant, Pouncey, DeCastro, Timmons, etc.) decided mid-contract that they were underpaid and should also be able to tear up the old deal and get a new, better one?

Can't do it.

Bell is coming off injury and has a DUI.

Pouncey just resigned, Decastro and Timmons dont have the stats to back up their demands.

WR's always hold out because they are on an island and have stats that are easy to measure vs their competition.

I doubt he gets it but then again, this FO has done things differently the past few years

Chadman
04-20-2015, 09:04 PM
If nothing else, the NFL has proven that RB's are replaceable. I like Bell, but I wouldn't overpay for Bell. Not that long ago Adrian Peterson was the greatest player in the history of the NFL. Now the Vikings are not convincing anyone Peterson is in their future plans. Wring as much out of Bell as you can, but in 3-4 years his replacement will be available in the draft.

Brown replaced Wallace, who replaced Ward etc, etc.... there are good WR's in every draft.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-20-2015, 09:18 PM
BEN has 5 yrs left.

BROWN is 27. Give him 5 yrs at $12 million. Give BELL his contract and everyone else can walk on offense. It's clear this offense is Ben, Brown and Bell.

And what will happens in a year or two when the league average for top-flight WRs is $14 million, and AB decides $12 million isn't enough?

Brown just accepted a $9+ million "restructuring bonus" last year. He needs to swallow his ego, honor his commitment, and wait his turn.

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 09:26 PM
If nothing else, the NFL has proven that RB's are replaceable. I like Bell, but I wouldn't overpay for Bell. Not that long ago Adrian Peterson was the greatest player in the history of the NFL. Now the Vikings are not convincing anyone Peterson is in their future plans. Wring as much out of Bell as you can, but in 3-4 years his replacement will be available in the draft.

Brown replaced Wallace, who replaced Ward etc, etc.... there are good WR's in every draft.

Not sure about this. Ben had a great year because he dumped the ball off the Bell a ton. Maybe we can find a replacement but Bell is a monster in the passing game.

AB is also better than Ward. He isnt a better blocker but he is probably the total package at WR and will surely go down as one of the best in history if he keeps this up.

We can definitely replace them but we will see a difference.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-20-2015, 09:26 PM
Bell is coming off injury and has a DUI.
So? Doesn't mean he won't feel entitled to more money if he has another season like last year.


Pouncey just resigned
So? If AB can get a new, richer deal by holding out with 3 years left, why couldn't Pouncey decide to take the same route?


Decastro and Timmons dont have the stats to back up their demands.
What if 2015 is a monster season for these two, so that they are deemed the best in the league at their respective positions?

It wouldn't be wise for the Steelers to crack that door open, IMO.

Discipline of Steel
04-20-2015, 09:29 PM
Im sure his agent egged him on. If not for that, Brown might just have been satisfied.
Bettter for agents to have active contract negotiations on their star players every year if possible.

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 09:33 PM
So? Doesn't mean he won't feel entitled to more money if he has another season like last year.


So? If AB can get a new, richer deal by holding out with 3 years left, why couldn't Pouncey decide to take the same route?


What if 2015 is a monster season for these two, so that they are deemed the best in the league at their respective positions?

I dont think its possible for any of those players to prove they are the best at their position like a WR or RB.


Bell could if he didnt have the suspension but he would need 5 or 6 games like he had vs the Panthers but its unlikely.

Chadman
04-20-2015, 09:43 PM
Not sure about this. Ben had a great year because he dumped the ball off the Bell a ton. Maybe we can find a replacement but Bell is a monster in the passing game.

AB is also better than Ward. He isnt a better blocker but he is probably the total package at WR and will surely go down as one of the best in history if he keeps this up.

We can definitely replace them but we will see a difference.

Bell is a monster, absolutely. And so was Peterson. And before him, so was Jones-Drew etc, etc. Every year there are good new RB's in the NFL. Do they 'need' to be as good as Bell for the Steelers to have success?

Brown might be a better WR than Ward. But then, how many SB's did we win with Ward compared to Brown? Do you need to be as good as Brown is to be successful?

K Train
04-20-2015, 10:28 PM
Bell is a monster, absolutely. And so was Peterson. And before him, so was Jones-Drew etc, etc. Every year there are good new RB's in the NFL. Do they 'need' to be as good as Bell for the Steelers to have success?

Brown might be a better WR than Ward. But then, how many SB's did we win with Ward compared to Brown? Do you need to be as good as Brown is to be successful?this is just a strange position to take

feltdizz
04-20-2015, 11:24 PM
Bell is a monster, absolutely. And so was Peterson. And before him, so was Jones-Drew etc, etc. Every year there are good new RB's in the NFL. Do they 'need' to be as good as Bell for the Steelers to have success?

Brown might be a better WR than Ward. But then, how many SB's did we win with Ward compared to Brown? Do you need to be as good as Brown is to be successful?

Hines Ward held out and he also played 7 years before he won a ring.

Chadman
04-20-2015, 11:51 PM
Hines Ward held out and he also played 7 years before he won a ring.

Ward held out in the last year of his contract, not 2 years into one. How many years did it take for Ward to win a SB with a high quality QB throwing to him?

SS Laser
04-21-2015, 12:00 AM
this is just a strange position to take Not really I agree with Chadman. A FOOTBALL TEAM with a salary cap can not pay everyone top dollar. Have to pick and choose the correct players to pay top money and field a successful team. Sometimes a " A-" player or "B+" player on a "good" money deal for the team is better for the TEAM over a high paid "A+" player depending on the position of course. Plus I am the kind of guy that honors my deals. AB did end up with more money in his pocket with the restructure right? Thought he was more a TEAM PLAYER then that. I also disagree with the argument that he has to get the most money incase he gets hurt. What happens when any great player gets top dollar then gets hurt bad. It hurts the building of the TEAM because of the money owed. Look at Woodley deal for crying out loud. I really like AB. But seeing him paid well and not a true team player in my eyes now. Maybe it is time to put him on the trading blocks and move on. :) IT will hurt the TEAM but can be over come. But I also see maybe coming to a compromise and give him a restructure of sorts. Kind of like the K. Lewis getting more guaranteed money. That's the only "issue" I see with his deal at this point. He is a very good player on and off the field and fan favorite. But again the team overall matters more to me IMO.

flippy
04-21-2015, 04:04 AM
Brown is one of my favorites on the team, but he's just a WR. Trade him and move on.

At the end of the day, we're winning another SuperBowl with Ben and Defense. This might actually be a blessing if it can somehow turn into a jolt for our D with a star player upgrading that unit.

This all really does suck. We haven't ever had a player as electrifying as AB on the field. The guy is pure amazing talent. But oh well, he's just a WR. Let someone else over pay him. I wonder what we could realistically get for him?

papillon
04-21-2015, 06:22 AM
Brown is one of my favorites on the team, but he's just a WR. Trade him and move on.

At the end of the day, we're winning another SuperBowl with Ben and Defense. This might actually be a blessing if it can somehow turn into a jolt for our D with a star player upgrading that unit.

This all really does suck. We haven't ever had a player as electrifying as AB on the field. The guy is pure amazing talent. But oh well, he's just a WR. Let someone else over pay him. I wonder what we could realistically get for him?

A first and a fourth according to Pappy's Pro Football trade value, see my sig. :D Nearly everyone has the Raiders taking a WR, so why wouldn't they be willing to take the best receiver in the NFL plus a 4th round pick and make the deal? AB is only 26 years old he'll be there for 5 more years at a high level.

Pappy

Slapstick
04-21-2015, 06:23 AM
You know who was underpaid relative to the rest of his peers at his position for a few seasons? Ben Roethlisberger...

Did Ben complain or hold out? No...

Did Ben get paid when his turn came? Yes..

Hopefully, AB can see that if Drew Rosenhaus can't...

Sword
04-21-2015, 07:35 AM
Very disappointing...
Work the draft, trade him , let players know you cannot be in the middle of a good contract and play blackmail...Ben can make a decent WR look great...
We need defense players, so trade his ass...

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 08:46 AM
Ward held out in the last year of his contract, not 2 years into one. How many years did it take for Ward to win a SB with a high quality QB throwing to him?

Oh..., so it's when you hold out. Got it.

and Ben had a huge chip on his shoulder when he entered the league. Maybe when the next QB we draft has a high quality arm AB will get a ring or 2.

cause trust me, we aren't getting a ring with older Ben and young inexperienced WR.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 10:23 AM
Just throwing something out there.

Folks are talking about wanting to get a couple of first round picks for Antonio Brown because he is holding out.

Kansas City has a franchise player who is holding out, and it would require a couple of first round picks to pry him away.

Both guys are 26. The Chiefs WR corps sucks (zero TD's thrown to WR's last season). They replaced Dwayne Bowe with Jeremy Maclin in free agency, but that still suck. They could certainly use someone who accounted for over 3000 receiving yards and over 20 TD catches in the last 2 seasons. And we could certainly use a guy who had 22 sacks last year (plus 11 more sacks in only 11 games the year before).

Just sayin'...

Moonie
04-21-2015, 10:27 AM
A. Brown may be the best player in the league. There will be no more discussion of letting him go. End of story.

Shawn
04-21-2015, 10:37 AM
A. Brown may be the best player in the league. There will be no more discussion of letting him go. End of story. Agreed. With our D? We ride the O...find a way to make him happy.

papillon
04-21-2015, 11:20 AM
Agreed. With our D? We ride the O...find a way to make him happy.

At what cost to future negotiations with players? I don't the Steelers alter his contract at this point. I also doubt that they are considering trading him, that's what we do on message boards. Hopefully, he'll understand the business of the game and continue to put in his outstanding work ethic. He has no real leverage at all right now.

Pappy

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 11:45 AM
At what cost to future negotiations with players? I don't the Steelers alter his contract at this point. I also doubt that they are considering trading him, that's what we do on message boards. Hopefully, he'll understand the business of the game and continue to put in his outstanding work ethic. He has no real leverage at all right now.

Pappy

who knows... but with 5 years of Ben left a lot of fans were in "win now" mode.

I think we are entering a new era of players who want big money and we will see more threats of sitting out when they perform well.

I hope he comes around as well.

Slapstick
04-21-2015, 11:48 AM
who knows... but with 5 years of Ben left a lot of fans were in "win now" mode.

I think we are entering a new era of players who want big money and we will see more threats of sitting out when they perform well.

I hope he comes around as well.

And this is exactly why the Steelers can't cave....

K Train
04-21-2015, 11:49 AM
I think they should fully guarantee the remainder of his deal (or like 75%-90% of it) and tack on 1-2 additional years at market value that is non guaranteed

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 11:53 AM
Agreed. With our D? We ride the O...find a way to make him happy.

That's what makes the Hines Ward angle funny..

our D was top 5 and created sacks, turnovers and scored TD's during that era.

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 11:56 AM
And this is exactly why the Steelers can't cave....

maybe...

or we continue to cave when guys like AB come along which is once every lifetime.

A little hyperbole but honestly, when is the last time we have seen a player like AB on our team?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 12:14 PM
My best guess is that team does absolutely nothing with his contract, since he has 3 years left and that sets a horrible precedent. Brown sits out the voluntary stuff which is his prerogative. Rosenhaus pushes him to also sit out mandatory minicamp and training camp too, but he talks to some other people (like his mentor Hines Ward, who has been down this road before) and gets convinced that a prolonged holdout isn't good for either side. It would be one thing if he were GROSSLY underpaid, but he isn't. His deal may be slightly below market value, but that is a risk you take when you sign a 6 year deal in which the bar gets re-set every year). They already converted much of his non-guaranteed base salary into guaranteed bonus money this offseason, and will likely do the same next offseason, but won't get that big extension he's looking for until 2017, when he will have 1 year left on his deal.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 12:26 PM
So let me get this straight, let's trade a top 10 PLAYER IN ALL OF football now for a chance to draft a top PROSPECT IN COLLEGE. Now this is real FUNNY.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 12:27 PM
I'm glad some of you don't run the team or we will have no team.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 12:33 PM
So let me get this straight, let's trade a top 10 PLAYER IN ALL OF football now for a chance to draft a top PROSPECT IN COLLEGE. Now this is real FUNNY.

hey, never know when you might have the opportunity to land the next Jarvis Jones...

Slapstick
04-21-2015, 12:34 PM
maybe...

or we continue to cave when guys like AB come along which is once every lifetime.

A little hyperbole but honestly, when is the last time we have seen a player like AB on our team?

Every player thinks they are a once in a lifetime player. That's why it sets a horrible precedent.

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 12:37 PM
Every player thinks they are a once in a lifetime player. That's why it sets a horrible precedent.

and yet, every player doesn't hold out.

it's usually players who have the film, stats and respect of their peers who hold out.

95% of the players know they are replaceable. It's that 5% who know they more than likely can't be replaced that hold out.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 12:39 PM
hey, never know when you might have the opportunity to land the next Jarvis Jones...lol I BET that would make em happy.

NorthCoast
04-21-2015, 12:40 PM
My best guess is that team does absolutely nothing with his contract, since he has 3 years left and that sets a horrible precedent. Brown sits out the voluntary stuff which is his prerogative. Rosenhaus pushes him to also sit out mandatory minicamp and training camp too, but he talks to some other people (like his mentor Hines Ward, who has been down this road before) and gets convinced that a prolonged holdout isn't good for either side. It would be one thing if he were GROSSLY underpaid, but he isn't. His deal may be slightly below market value, but that is a risk you take when you sign a 6 year deal in which the bar gets re-set every year). They already converted much of his non-guaranteed base salary into guaranteed bonus money this offseason, and will likely do the same next offseason, but won't get that big extension he's looking for until 2017, when he will have 1 year left on his deal.

I agree. It's the precedent the team has to think about. Once you go down that path there is no returning.

It's an interesting dilemma for the team. You certainly want to richly reward the difference-makers, the role models, the hardest workers. You want to promote the kind of behavior Brown is all about. But it can't be done recklessly by abandoning principles behind what made the franchise great... team before player.

K Train
04-21-2015, 12:42 PM
So let me get this straight, let's trade a top 10 PLAYER IN ALL OF football now for a chance to draft a top PROSPECT IN COLLEGE. Now this is real FUNNY.

as a last resort, sure

Shawn
04-21-2015, 12:58 PM
Contract extensions happen all the time...make him a Steeler for life. Precedent? I mean how many Brown's come along? Let the Timmons, DeCastros and the Pounceys sit out for three years and watch us replace them. This team isn't competitive without Brown...he knows it...the team knows it. Figure it out.

papillon
04-21-2015, 01:10 PM
So let me get this straight, let's trade a top 10 PLAYER IN ALL OF football now for a chance to draft a top PROSPECT IN COLLEGE. Now this is real FUNNY.

Well, here's the thing, if AB is a top 10 player and Ben is certainly a top 10 player, how many top 10 players do the Steelers need to win a Super Bowl? You have to have an elite quarterback to be successful in the NFL, the Steelers do, you don't need an elite WR to be successful, the Patriots just proved that by winning the Super Bowl with Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman and LaFell. Trading AB for draft picks wouldn't be the end of the world, as currently constituted the Steelers defense isn't good enough to get the Steelers to the Super Bowl.

As Ruthlessburgher mentioned the Chiefs have a disgruntled OLB with 22 sacks and a pathetic receiving corps, the Steelers have a semi-disgruntled top 1 or 2 WR and an average defense, how about a swap with the Chiefs? Both teams improve what they do worst and each teams loses a little of what they do best, but in the end I think each team is better.

Pappy

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 01:12 PM
You mean Justin Houston who wants twice as much as AB. Ok smart move.

Oviedo
04-21-2015, 01:16 PM
hey, never know when you might have the opportunity to land the next Jarvis Jones...

You just made me throw up in my mouth:(

Oviedo
04-21-2015, 01:19 PM
Contract extensions happen all the time...make him a Steeler for life. Precedent? I mean how many Brown's come along? Let the Timmons, DeCastros and the Pounceys sit out for three years and watch us replace them. This team isn't competitive without Brown...he knows it...the team knows it. Figure it out.

Got to agree somewhat. While I feel a man's word should mean something he is probably one of the best WRs in the game if not the most complete with his pass catching and punt returning. This is not like the sham job Wallace was trying to pull when everyone, except Miami, knew he wasn't worth close to what he was asking. Renegotiate Brown's contract and make it a win-win where we get additional cap relief.

papillon
04-21-2015, 01:28 PM
You mean Justin Houston who wants twice as much as AB. Ok smart move.

Maybe, maybe not, the Steelers aren't winning a Super Bowl until the defense gets better, whether that be by Jones, Shazier and Thomas becoming the players the Steelers believed they would be when they drafted them; drafting CBs, safeties and OLBs again or trading for a proven commodity, either way, the Steelers need an upgrade of defense. Ben is good enough to live without AB, he lived with below average offensive lines for years and was successful, he can find a way to move the offense without AB.

Pappy

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 01:47 PM
I don't disagree but look at it this way. If you trade him for picks maybe in three years that draft pick might pan out to be good and if not those are three of Ben years down the drain. We can agree Houston wants twice as much because he won't even sign his 14 mill tender. So the next best thing is to outscore your opponents until the defense catches up and that ain't happening without AB regardless of how Good Ben is. Remember this was Ben best year and he couldn't have done it without AB.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 01:48 PM
Imaging Wheaton and Lance more starting the season, do you serious think Ben would have a career year.

Slapstick
04-21-2015, 02:08 PM
maybe...

or we continue to cave when guys like AB come along which is once every lifetime.

A little hyperbole but honestly, when is the last time we have seen a player like AB on our team?

With a once in a lifetime player, perhaps you renegotiate with two years left on the contract...

The Steelers knew AB was special, which is why they gave him the contract extension after only two years...if he wanted more money, he could have just played out his contract and hit the open market, like Wallace did.

He didn't. He took the deal and was grateful​. Now, he has become ungrateful...

Cinnjerm3000
04-21-2015, 02:13 PM
Not sure if anyone asked yet (I didn't bother reading every comment), but if the workouts are voluntary, why is this even a story at this point?

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 02:20 PM
Not sure if anyone asked yet (I didn't bother reading every comment), but if the workouts are voluntary, why is this even a story at this point?

good point.

if AB begins to miss any mandatory practices then it might be time to start worrying...

Shawn
04-21-2015, 02:35 PM
Got to agree somewhat. While I feel a man's word should mean something he is probably one of the best WRs in the game if not the most complete with his pass catching and punt returning. This is not like the sham job Wallace was trying to pull when everyone, except Miami, knew he wasn't worth close to what he was asking. Renegotiate Brown's contract and make it a win-win where we get additional cap relief.

The way Brown is playing, statistically he isn't just the best in the game...if he continues he will be one of the best to ever play the game.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-21-2015, 02:35 PM
Not sure if anyone asked yet (I didn't bother reading every comment), but if the workouts are voluntary, why is this even a story at this point?


It's only a THREAT of a holdout, at this point. If AB really does skip MANDATORY workouts/training, THEN it goes to a serious level.

I believe there are a half-dozen plus stars around the NFL who aren't planning to show up for voluntary workouts.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 02:38 PM
AB deserves more money - PERIOD
He just saw his record setting 'white" QB get huge money and who was a very part of that record? AB!
What did AB do during training camp for the fans? This guy has been POSTER BOY STEELERS all the way and something tells me AB tried to ask for a new contract prior to this story being released. I'm sure the Steelers painted him in the corner a bit to see how far he would take it in regard to next season. It's released EARLY enough to get something done prior to camp and just like Hines Ward and the many others who did this same thing he will get paid.

Steelers saved a ton of money by seeing the potential early and AB wasted a lot of money by signing that early deal but after that deal was signed AB has done nothing more but been a great player. He was the last guy to leave the field for autographs in camp and he sure made good on his promise to his fans that couldn't make it to camp. This guy deserves top 10 money and has for awhile now.

Give him Troy's savings and lets move on already.

Slapstick
04-21-2015, 02:53 PM
Rewarding this behavior is a terrible idea over the long term.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 03:00 PM
AB deserves more money - PERIOD

He just saw his record setting 'white" QB get huge money

what does the fact that Ben is "white" have anything to do with it?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 03:03 PM
AB deserves more money - PERIOD
He just saw his record setting 'white" QB get huge money and who was a very part of that record? AB!
What did AB do during training camp for the fans? This guy has been POSTER BOY STEELERS all the way and something tells me AB tried to ask for a new contract prior to this story being released. I'm sure the Steelers painted him in the corner a bit to see how far he would take it in regard to next season. It's released EARLY enough to get something done prior to camp and just like Hines Ward and the many others who did this same thing he will get paid.

Steelers saved a ton of money by seeing the potential early and AB wasted a lot of money by signing that early deal but after that deal was signed AB has done nothing more but been a great player. He was the last guy to leave the field for autographs in camp and he sure made good on his promise to his fans that couldn't make it to camp. This guy deserves top 10 money and has for awhile now.

Give him Troy's savings and lets move on already.

The "white" QB (not sure why that is relevant whatsoever) had one year left on his deal. Brown has three years left on his deal. I'm sure Ben wanted to renegotiate with 3 years left for big dollars too (he waited 7 out of the 8 years he signed for before the renegiation...Brown can wait for 5 out of the 6 years for his). Brown can get an extension when he has 1 year left on his deal too. He'll be 28 then, a new deal then would take him up until he's ready to hang 'em up at 32 or 33 (unless he's a freak like Steve Smith who turns 36 next month and is still playing at a reasonably high level).

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:16 PM
1. rewarding his behavior? Which behavior? The one in which he signed all those autographs or the behavior in which he has yet to miss any practice time?
2. White / black - ok lets pretend that doesn't bother black athletes a bit.

Shawn
04-21-2015, 03:16 PM
The "white" QB (not sure why that is relevant whatsoever) had one year left on his deal. Brown has three years left on his deal. I'm sure Ben wanted to renegotiate with 3 years left for big dollars too (he waited 7 out of the 8 years he signed for before the renegiation...Brown can wait for 5 out of the 6 years for his). Brown can get an extension when he has 1 year left on his deal too. He'll be 28 then, a new deal then would take him up until he's ready to hang 'em up at 32 or 33 (unless he's a freak like Steve Smith who turns 36 next month and is still playing at a reasonably high level). The relevance is some saying the Steelers are willing to pay the white star but not the black star.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:17 PM
AB has 3 years left on a STEAL of a deal looking back on it! Anyone who can't see that is crazy and or blind.
AB deserves to be paid and once he's paid he will go right back to be an amazing guy for the city of PIttsburgh just like AKA Hines Ward who also held out.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:19 PM
Every team pays the WHITE QB. See Joe Flacco.
Would you be upset if you were a black star receiver if you just saw Joe Flacco get 100 million and you were locked in for 3 more years getting a few million instead?

We all know the position itself drives the price and we can pretend its not a black and white thing all day long but something in my gut and my life experiences tells me that would bother some players.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 03:19 PM
When we gave extensions to Maurkice Pouncey, Marcus Gilbert, Cortez Allen, etc. last offseason, did anyone at all mention that they are all black?

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 03:23 PM
Every team pays the WHITE QB. See Joe Flacco.
Would you be upset if you were a black star receiver if you just saw Joe Flacco get 100 million and you were locked in for 3 more years getting a few million instead?

We all know the position itself drives the price and we can pretend its not a black and white thing all day long but something in my gut and my life experiences tells me that would bother some players.

Does white superstar LB Luke Kuechly care what the Panthers are paying his black superstar QB Cam Newton? This is so stupid.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:30 PM
Yes it is stupid because none of us can speak to how he feels but we can all clearly see he deserves more money.

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 03:30 PM
AB has 3 years left on a STEAL of a deal looking back on it! Anyone who can't see that is crazy and or blind.
AB deserves to be paid and once he's paid he will go right back to be an amazing guy for the city of PIttsburgh just like AKA Hines Ward who also held out.
And we had Ben on a STEAL of a deal, but he waited until he had one year left on his deal. Point?

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:34 PM
I've been in the military for a long time and I've been called the TOKEN white boy before. If that way of thinking is in the military where we all do get the same money if we are the same rank. In the military however you are ranked by your peers and that token white boy label does come into play at that time. We are talking the difference of a few hundred dollars a month vs lets say a QB and a WR.

Comparing a LB who doesn't help his Black QB at all to this is the dumb part. Ben's STATS drove up his pricetag correct? who helped him achieve those stats? #1 WR in the league right? Call it what you want or how you want it but this is been a very LOW KEY news story because I believe AB is trying his best to get a deal without making it a bigger deal then necessary.

I love the Steelers way of never paying those crying for more money but this situation is way different in my opinion even if you take the black and white label from it.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:35 PM
Ben on a Steal Deal? What QB is on a steal deal?

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 03:44 PM
I've been in the military for a long time and I've been called the TOKEN white boy before. If that way of thinking is in the military where we all do get the same money if we are the same rank. In the military however you are ranked by your peers and that token white boy label does come into play at that time. We are talking the difference of a few hundred dollars a month vs lets say a QB and a WR.

Comparing a LB who doesn't help his Black QB at all to this is the dumb part. Ben's STATS drove up his pricetag correct? who helped him achieve those stats? #1 WR in the league right? Call it what you want or how you want it but this is been a very LOW KEY news story because I believe AB is trying his best to get a deal without making it a bigger deal then necessary.

I love the Steelers way of never paying those crying for more money but this situation is way different in my opinion even if you take the black and white label from it.
I think the main point is that AB HAS outperformed his contract BUT the Steelers are a team that that don't renegotiate in middle of a contract. They haven't done it for anyone. And they shouldn't for Brown. They gave him a huge raise before he earned it.

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 03:44 PM
Ben on a Steal Deal? What QB is on a steal deal?
When you have a super bowl winning qb and he's paid less than qb's that haven't won the super bowl, you're getting a steal.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 03:45 PM
AB deserves to be paid and once he's paid he will go right back to be an amazing guy for the city of PIttsburgh just like AKA Hines Ward who also held out.

Hines had one year remaining on his contract when he held out...not three.

Oviedo
04-21-2015, 03:46 PM
Just to be clear Brown hasn't missed anything required yet has he? Until the very end, Troy always missed voluntary sessions too. I don't think anyone doubts Brown is working at least as hard on his own as the guys on the Southside.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 03:48 PM
Yes it is stupid because none of us can speak to how he feels but we can all clearly see he deserves more money.


man i wish i had stuff to sell you. i would make a fortune

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:49 PM
this is a different situation. Steelers really took a chance on AB and that kid has shined and hasn't said a word until now. He has lead this team for 2 seasons, its not like it was one exceptional year. I bring up the Ben deal because that just happened and you don't think his teammates harass him a little? THEY SHOUD! The QB takes his OL on vacations right? Buys the OL gifts? Leveon Bell bought the OL gifts this year as well for xmas. Why do they do that guys? Because they all know they are the ones making the cash money. AB has quietly had 2 amazing seasons and has done everything like a POSTER BOY should! I got his autograph on the first day of camp last year and as soon as I hung his jersey over the rail he grabbed it and signed it! He's good people and I think he makes an excellent case to be the exception to the Steeler Policy. He could have made this a story before Ben got paid and maybe Ben would of said hey i'll take less to keep AB happy? Who knows but maybe AB wanted to make sure the token QB got his cash. (I didn't say white) LOL. We don't know but we all know he deserves the money! His is a DUAL THREAT at WR and PUNT returner and some returners in this league get millions just for doing that job. I don't want this to become a story because the Steelers will lose an amazing team player if it does come down to him skipping practice time.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:50 PM
Squidkid - I'm a salesman, I have stuff to sell you. LOL

Oviedo
04-21-2015, 03:52 PM
Hines had one year remaining on his contract when he held out...not three. Other than a philosophical stand with three years left, the Steelers could probably turn this to their advantage by renegotiating and gaining some more cap freedom. It is really all just about the guaranteed money in the end.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 03:52 PM
Squidkid - I'm a salesman, I have stuff to sell you. LOL

I would be very interested in buying whatever it is you've been smoking...

squidkid
04-21-2015, 03:53 PM
some of you guys crack me up.
so because some other teams were ignorant and over paid their wrs, AB is now underpaid and had outproduced his contract?
yup, let's be even more ignorant than them and give him a new contract that pays him a lot more than the very highest wr contract.
that will help us build a strong team.........lol

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 03:54 PM
Other than a philosophical stand with three years left, the Steelers could probably turn this to their advantage by renegotiating and gaining some more cap freedom. It is really all just about the guaranteed money in the end.

hey, it worked for Keenan Lewis in New Orleans...

hausparty
04-21-2015, 03:59 PM
Anyone log into steelers.com and watch the videos. Ever see the AB videos? Dude is all over the place and always in the locker room filming the guys.
Guy is a stud.

I believe his first few years he rode his bike to the steelers facilities to train and such. He's been a constant true Steeler type player and I'd hate for that to be tarnished over money for either side.

K Train
04-21-2015, 04:00 PM
some of you guys crack me up.
so because some other teams were ignorant and over paid their wrs, AB is now underpaid and had outproduced his contract?
yup, let's be even more ignorant than them and give him a new contract that pays him a lot more than the very highest wr contract.
that will help us build a strong team.........lol

The market is the market though....the steelers bet on Brown big time and he rewarded them. It has to be a balance.

People are quick to take a high and mighty approach and say "honor your contract" but lets not act like it doesnt go both ways....if brown had reproduced his 2012 numbers the last two years and struggled without the presence of wallace he would have surely been cut or asked to take a pay cut. There has to be a medium between the two sides because it isnt as cut and dry as "honor your contract you dumb *****"

Steelers bet on a player that grew into one of the most dominant players in the NFL....no reason why he shouldnt be rewarded additionally for elite production. I dont think they would ever just tear up his deal and give him highest paid WR money...but they could guarantee the current deal and tack on a few seasons at a top market rate

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 04:03 PM
When you have a super bowl winning qb and he's paid less than qb's that haven't won the super bowl, you're getting a steal.

NFL stands for Not For Long... and these QB's who are getting huge paydays are winning playoff games and going to SB's the last few years while we have lost at home to Flacco and on the road to Tim Tebow.


I value Ben but we need to be honest about where he is in his career. He isn't tossing guys off his back and scoring game winning TD's like he used to. 2 years ago we saw ugly Ben a ton, then we saw fantastic Ben last year who dumps a lot of passes off the Bell and AB.

Not trying to knock the guy but I think Ben is paid handsomely considering his past success AND off field troubles.

At some point in time Ben is going to have to win a few playoff games to justify this last contract. That playoff game last year wasn't pretty.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 04:05 PM
When you have a super bowl winning qb and he's paid less than qb's that haven't won the super bowl, you're getting a steal.To be fair Ben 2nd contract wasn't a steal compared to others at the time, he was one of the highest paid at the time.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 04:05 PM
Anyone log into steelers.com and watch the videos. Ever see the AB videos? Dude is all over the place and always in the locker room filming the guys.
Guy is a stud.

I believe his first few years he rode his bike to the steelers facilities to train and such. He's been a constant true Steeler type player and I'd hate for that to be tarnished over money for either side.

I don't disagree with any of this, but the Steelers NEVER re-do a contract with 3 years on it. Wait until you have 1 year left, then we'll talk...the ONLY exceptions that they ever make are extending QB's with 2 years left on a deal, but this last time, they made Ben wait until he had 1 year left (while guys like Jay Freaking Cutler were getting PAID while Ben patiently worked off the same deal crafted 7 years ago when everyone made much less money on average since it was during a different T.V. deal).

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:06 PM
No its called Inflation and the rise of salary cap. OH MY some of you need math class.
If the cap was 80 million 10 years ago and its now at 150 million that means players today and please key on the word TODAY make more money than those paid years ago.

Ben was a top paid QB when he was signed last time and AB was not! AB is now a top player while Ben remains a top player and again just got paid like one in today's standards not yesterdays.

If Superbowls is your measuring stick then again its a STAT and BEN is earning his value with RINGS. AB wants to earn it by making PRO BOWLS and by setting team RECORDS I guess but regardless those are stats and AB's current value is less then what it should be in todays NFL. PERIOD. Some pretty bad names out there making more than him.

lets get it done.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:09 PM
I don't disagree with any of this, but the Steelers NEVER re-do a contract with 3 years on it. Wait until you have 1 year left, then we'll talk...the ONLY exceptions that they ever make are extending QB's with 2 years left on a deal, but this last time, they made Ben wait until he had 1 year left (while guys like Jay Freaking Cutler were getting PAID while Ben patiently worked off the same deal crafted 7 years ago when everyone made much less money on average since it was during a different T.V. deal).

And I don't disagree with this however I simply ask how many times have the Steelers given a contract such as AB"s at the time they gave it to him? Everyone expected Wallace to be paid and instead they locked up AB and not one of us saw that coming. If the Steelers can do something different in that regard then why can't they do it again for the same player? If Wallace didn't leave would that have happened? Questions we don't know but the Steelers put themselves in this position and to me its a great position to be in because this guy is a beast and we need him to win.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 04:11 PM
lets get it done.

and as soon as the ink is dry on AB's new contract how many other Steelers players will want to also renegotiate their contracts that they believe they have outperformed?

you simply can't set that kind of dangerous precedent and I am positive the Steelers won't...

squidkid
04-21-2015, 04:12 PM
The market is the market though....the steelers bet on Brown big time and he rewarded them. It has to be a balance.

People are quick to take a high and mighty approach and say "honor your contract" but lets not act like it doesnt go both ways....if brown had reproduced his 2012 numbers the last two years and struggled without the presence of wallace he would have surely been cut or asked to take a pay cut. There has to be a medium between the two sides because it isnt as cut and dry as "honor your contract you dumb *****"

Steelers bet on a player that grew into one of the most dominant players in the NFL....no reason why he shouldnt be rewarded additionally for elite production. I dont think they would ever just tear up his deal and give him highest paid WR money...but they could guarantee the current deal and tack on a few seasons at a top market rate

AB got more money early than he deserved. he was rewarded before he produced. im sure the steelers will fulfill their end of the deal the next 2 years if AB produces even at top 10 wr stats, that is guaranteed.

Moonie
04-21-2015, 04:12 PM
Hines had one year remaining on his contract when he held out...not three.

Yeah, but he wasn't really black.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but he wasn't really black.

good point, half black doesn't really count...;)

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 04:14 PM
NFL stands for Not For Long... and these QB's who are getting huge paydays are winning playoff games and going to SB's the last few years while we have lost at home to Flacco and on the road to Tim Tebow.


I value Ben but we need to be honest about where he is in his career. He isn't tossing guys off his back and scoring game winning TD's like he used to. 2 years ago we saw ugly Ben a ton, then we saw fantastic Ben last year who dumps a lot of passes off the Bell and AB.

Not trying to knock the guy but I think Ben is paid handsomely considering his past success AND off field troubles.

At some point in time Ben is going to have to win a few playoff games to justify this last contract. That playoff game last year wasn't pretty.
Really? when was the last time that Romo won a playoff game? How about Rivers? Their contracts were comparable to Ben's.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:15 PM
LOL see this thread needed some humor and we got it.

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 04:16 PM
And I don't disagree with this however I simply ask how many times have the Steelers given a contract such as AB"s at the time they gave it to him? Everyone expected Wallace to be paid and instead they locked up AB and not one of us saw that coming. If the Steelers can do something different in that regard then why can't they do it again for the same player? If Wallace didn't leave would that have happened? Questions we don't know but the Steelers put themselves in this position and to me its a great position to be in because this guy is a beast and we need him to win.
The Wallace situation wasn't very surprising. They let another team over pay a guy that they didn't see the value in. And they paid a guy who they saw something. It's not rare for them to do that. Brown is a stud with the way he works out. They probably recognized that early on.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:17 PM
he's going to get a new deal. COUNT IT

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 04:17 PM
AB got more money early than he deserved. he was rewarded before he produced. im sure the steelers will fulfill their end of the deal the next 2 years if AB produces even at top 10 wr stats, that is guaranteed.
Exactly. And that is exactly what they should do.

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 04:18 PM
good point, half black doesn't really count...;)

Unless you are the President. ;)

phillyesq
04-21-2015, 04:19 PM
AB has 3 years left on a STEAL of a deal looking back on it! Anyone who can't see that is crazy and or blind.
AB deserves to be paid and once he's paid he will go right back to be an amazing guy for the city of PIttsburgh just like AKA Hines Ward who also held out.

AB had 3 starts when the Steelers gave him a $8.5 million dollar signing bonus and a $42 million contract. A contract that many questioned at that time, thinking it was too high.

Lets not re-write history. AB got paid.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 04:21 PM
Unless you are the President. ;)

Hines and the President both have something else in common too.

neither was born in the United States...:stirpot

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:26 PM
and he appreciated that in 2012, 2013, and 2014.
I think in the corporate office many of us go into our boss's office and demand raises or at least inquire. Maybe they are taking on a little more than they did 3 years ago and feel like they deserve more money? You can either accept NO for an answer or you can quit your job. PERIOD. We already had a guy quit on our team who could have received 10 million a year possibly. It can happen.
AB is in his PRIME and he knows it and he is also smart and knows the Steelers have free money NOW. All the key players are locked up and despite others who claim that this will lead others to do the same thing. Really? Who is this caliber that we can't afford to let walk? Huge difference and it should be treated as such. AB is a true STUD and the ultimate game changer and what he does for this franchise and fans is one of a kind.

Even this story was pretty low key in my opinion which means he probably already asked behind the scenes and was told NO and therefore a small story in April about him missing practices pops up. I mean really, this is a non story and its going to be a non issue pretty soon. Ben for President because he's white, AB for Vice.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 04:27 PM
me and a buddy of mine went to a bar the other day for a beer and burger. i ordered a bacon double cheese and he had a chili burger, each was $8. my burger was fantastic. my buddies was dry and skimpy on the meat.
when the waitress asked about our meals, i told her mine was great but my buddies was disappointing. she came back later with the bills. when i cashed out, i voluntarily gave her an additional $8. she asked what the extra money was for. i said, 'well my buddies burger sucked, mine was great, so i thought i should give more money for it even tho the price on the menu was $8".
she looked at me and said, "are you f@cking retarded"

RuthlessBurgher
04-21-2015, 04:27 PM
AB had 3 starts when the Steelers gave him a $8.5 million dollar signing bonus and a $42 million contract. A contract that many questioned at that time, thinking it was too high.

Lets not re-write history. AB got paid.

Yup...a modest signing bonus of $8.5 million in case he did not pan out once he was counted on to be a regular starter. But if he did pan out (and he did, of course), then he would be rewarded later with base salaries of $6 million in 2015, $8.25 million in 2016, and $8.71 million in 2017 (and he gets more and more of that guaranteed each year when they restructure and convert base salary into signing bonus for cap purposes). That may not be the payouts that the franchise-tagged Demaryius Bryant and Dez Bryant are expected to get when they sign long term deals, but their contracts are up now, so they can take advantage of being free agents at the right time. Neither guy signed long term deals after their second year in the league like AB did, which means that they are eligible to cash in even more now...Brown does not have that leverage at his disposal.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:28 PM
unless you guys can find a better White WR for cheaper we need to get this done. :)

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:30 PM
RuthlessBurgher's POST - SMART

Burger story is dumb as hell and that waitress was correct. :)

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 04:31 PM
AB had 3 starts when the Steelers gave him a $8.5 million dollar signing bonus and a $42 million contract. A contract that many questioned at that time, thinking it was too high.

Lets not re-write history. AB got paid.

but as we see it wasn't too high.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:31 PM
I just noticed my Join date was 2012. Wait what else happened that year? AB was signed. Maybe I'm AB! :)

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:33 PM
Ben tries to get laid a little to aggressive.
Bell doesn't understand smoking and getting high in a car is DUI

Both getting paid!

Brown was a low draft pick, wasn't paid right away like those #1's above and yet has done nothing but excel both on and off the field and yet we are all having issues with his contract and feel he should play it out. "COME ON MAN"

K Train
04-21-2015, 04:35 PM
me and a buddy of mine went to a bar the other day for a beer and burger. i ordered a bacon double cheese and he had a chili burger, each was $8. my burger was fantastic. my buddies was dry and skimpy on the meat.
when the waitress asked about our meals, i told her mine was great but my buddies was disappointing. she came back later with the bills. when i cashed out, i voluntarily gave her an additional $8. she asked what the extra money was for. i said, 'well my buddies burger sucked, mine was great, so i thought i should give more money for it even tho the price on the menu was $8".
she looked at me and said, "are you f@cking retarted"

Ok well 3 years later after rave reviews that same burger led the league in receiving yards, was second all time in catches, and was damn near uncoverable. You go back, now that the burger is famous and world renowned on the food network the price is now $11....do you demand the burger for $8 because you got it for that price before everyone discovered it or do you just pay the $11 so you can sink your teeth into the savory goodness again?

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:37 PM
All I know is the Peppi's # 7 was only $7.00 and its now $8.50. WTF! :)

Moonie
04-21-2015, 04:37 PM
Yeah, the burger story is off point, and that waitress can't spell.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:38 PM
yeah the burger story only made me hungry for burgers.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 04:40 PM
Brown was a low draft pick, wasn't paid right away like those #1's above and yet has done nothing but excel both on and off the field and yet we are all having issues with his contract and feel he should play it out. "COME ON MAN"

do you think it's reasonable to expect a player to at least get halfway through his contract before he renegotiates?

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:40 PM
84 needs some guaranteed money and its not going to hurt the steelers to resign him now and lock him up for his PRIME years! AB is smart and I'm sure his agent is also smart and they know what they are doing.
It's April! Who gives a crap about this until the mandatory camp begins. Whenever Troy's money frees up we can get it done and they will.

hausparty
04-21-2015, 04:46 PM
do you think it's reasonable to expect a player to at least get halfway through his contract before he renegotiates?

I personally love what the steelers do in regard to contract negotiations and love that they wait till 1 year is left and 2 for their QB and coaching staff. Everyone knows this approach and it works for the Pittsburgh Steelers. We avoid a lof of issues that other teams usually face such as AB's situation. But with that being said AB again was a low draft pick and got little to no money on that deal! Once the Steelers were set on Wallace leaving they rolled the dice and took a chance on AB but again its not guaranteed money and he out performed that easily in 3 seasons. This guy Karate Kid the Browns punter, I mean that alone is worth a few million. This guy is that exciting to watch, he's a tremendous leader, his camp story about the autographs was never done before, and his smile is very Hines Ward like. This guy has quietly done his job and then some and he does deserve some guaranteed money at the very least and like many articles read this can actually help the steelers financially by reporting some of the salary as a bonus. It's not the normal steeler situation nor was it when they signed him back in 2012 as that was unheard of and I was at that camp when it happened. The Killer B's need to be together for 5 more seasons so we can get 1 or 2 more rings. Everyone else is just a piece to the puzzle but these guys are part of the border that holds it all together.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 04:49 PM
http://imgick.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width620/img/chippewas_impact/photo/browns-steelers-football1jpg-04324032ae6bc848.jpg

squidkid
04-21-2015, 04:58 PM
Ok well 3 years later after rave reviews that same burger led the league in receiving yards, was second all time in catches, and was damn near uncoverable. You go back, now that the burger is famous and world renowned on the food network the price is now $11....do you demand the burger for $8 because you got it for that price before everyone discovered it or do you just pay the $11 so you can sink your teeth into the savory goodness again?


i dont demand the burger for what i paid for it 3 years ago, i pay for it what the price is on the menu at the time i order it. if the bar owner still has it on the menu for $8, i order it. if he raises the price to $11, i debate whether it is worth it based on how much money i have in my wallet and how that extra burger money will effect the other stuff i want to buy. i surely dont give him more than then what the menu states just because i really liked it.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 05:08 PM
6 months ago i leased a 2015 chevy truck for 3 years. I got it for 300 a month with 2K down.
i didnt realize it would be that cool of a ride, but it has exceeded my expectations. i called the dealership and asked if it was ok to stop by and have him increases my monthly payment to $400 a month for the remainder of my contract.
he said,"are you f@cking retarded"

squidkid
04-21-2015, 05:21 PM
2 years ago i bought my house. last week the real estate agent calls and asks if i am enjoying my home. i say "yes" .
he says, "cool, the previous owner has decided he wants you to pay him 20k more. and quite frankly, i could use the extra commission"
i tell my wife. she says, "pay the man. this house is awesome. best one on the block". " matter of fact, the neighbors paid a lot more for that rundown shack on the corner. we need to pay more than they did because they made a bad deal on theirs"
i said, "are you f@cking retarded"

phillyesq
04-21-2015, 05:26 PM
but as we see it wasn't too high.

It certainly turned out that way. The point is, he wasn't given an Arthur Moats or Steve McClendon type of borderline starter contract. He was paid like a star despite having 3 starts under his belt.

K Train
04-21-2015, 05:37 PM
6 months ago i leased a 2015 chevy truck for 3 years. I got it for 300 a month with 2K down.
i didnt realize it would be that cool of a ride, but it has exceeded my expectations. i called the dealership and asked if it was ok to stop by and have him increases my monthly payment to $400 a month for the remainder of my contract.
he said,"are you f@cking retarded"

Yeah but as per your lease agreement you werent allowed to drive it more than 12,000 miles in a single year without paying per extra mile. The extra miles probably helped you either get somewhere you needed to go or they helped you do something you needed the truck to do. I would say that if you had the second most productive truck in the history of the world you would be making some sort of return on its production elsewhere thus being glad to pay the penalty.

K Train
04-21-2015, 05:38 PM
2 years ago i bought my house. last week the real estate agent calls and asks if i am enjoying my home. i say "yes" .
he says, "cool, the previous owner has decided he wants you to pay him 20k more. and quite frankly, i could use the extra commission"
i tell my wife. she says, "pay the man. this house is awesome. best one on the block". " matter of fact, the neighbors paid a lot more for that rundown shack on the corner. we need to pay more than they did because they made a bad deal on theirs"
i said, "are you f@cking retarded"
I dont have anything for this one

phillyesq
04-21-2015, 05:40 PM
Yeah but as per your lease agreement you werent allowed to drive it more than 12,000 miles in a single year without paying per extra mile. The extra miles probably helped you either get somewhere you needed to go or they helped you do something you needed the truck to do. I would say that if you had the second most productive truck in the history of the world you would be making some sort of return on its production elsewhere thus being glad to pay the penalty.

Brown could have chosen to play out his sixth round rookie deal and then tested free agency. He could have gambled on himself. Instead, he took what was a very nice payday. It's the tradeoff of more money early. You see the same thing in baseball where young stars (like McCutchen) sign long term deals early.

They'd probably make more money if they waited until free agency, but they'd have to wait, and there is the risk that their performance drops.

hawaiiansteel
04-21-2015, 05:42 PM
Brown could have chosen to play out his sixth round rookie deal and then tested free agency. He could have gambled on himself. Instead, he took what was a very nice payday. It's the tradeoff of more money early. You see the same thing in baseball where young stars (like McCutchen) sign long term deals early.

They'd probably make more money if they waited until free agency, but they'd have to wait, and there is the risk that their performance drops.

or that they suffer a career-ending injury...

birtikidis
04-21-2015, 05:48 PM
Ben tries to get laid a little to aggressive.
Bell doesn't understand smoking and getting high in a car is DUI

Both getting paid!

Brown was a low draft pick, wasn't paid right away like those #1's above and yet has done nothing but excel both on and off the field and yet we are all having issues with his contract and feel he should play it out. "COME ON MAN"
Bell is still on his rookie contract. He hasn't gotten paid. HE also hasn't demanded a pay raise.

K Train
04-21-2015, 05:51 PM
Brown could have chosen to play out his sixth round rookie deal and then tested free agency. He could have gambled on himself. Instead, he took what was a very nice payday. It's the tradeoff of more money early. You see the same thing in baseball where young stars (like McCutchen) sign long term deals early.

They'd probably make more money if they waited until free agency, but they'd have to wait, and there is the risk that their performance drops.

I understand...baseball contracts are guaranteed though.

Steelers also gave him the offer that Mike Wallace turned down. Financially it made no sense for him not to take it as Wallace was a productive WR and Brown was not so much. With him under the rookie contract still and wallace about the walk and them having no faith in sanders they gave it to Brown for security at the position, not because he earned it to that point. It was a gamble by steelers for sure but was one that paid off. Brown was making 450k base with a 20,000 bonus in 2012....his agent would have shot him dead had he turned down an $8.5 million signing bonus on a $41,000,000 contract.

The problem now lies in the guaranteed money. He is guaranteed nothing from this point on except what he had restructured into bonus. From a security standpoint its not a comfortable deal for an elite player to be playing on in that hes one injury away from being expendable.

Like it or not, you can ***** about it and rationalize against it however you want but the teams bargain days with Brown are over...they will need to work something out, even if its simple like guaranteeing more money and tacking some years on which seems like the best, easiest, and most doable option

squidkid
04-21-2015, 06:10 PM
I understand...baseball contracts are guaranteed though.

Steelers also gave him the offer that Mike Wallace turned down. Financially it made no sense for him not to take it as Wallace was a productive WR and Brown was not so much. With him under the rookie contract still and wallace about the walk and them having no faith in sanders they gave it to Brown for security at the position, not because he earned it to that point. It was a gamble by steelers for sure but was one that paid off. Brown was making 450k base with a 20,000 bonus in 2012....his agent would have shot him dead had he turned down an $8.5 million signing bonus on a $41,000,000 contract.

The problem now lies in the guaranteed money. He is guaranteed nothing from this point on except what he had restructured into bonus. From a security standpoint its not a comfortable deal for an elite player to be playing on in that hes one injury away from being expendable.

Like it or not, you can ***** about it and rationalize against it however you want but the teams bargain days with Brown are over...they will need to work something out, even if its simple like guaranteeing more money and tacking some years on which seems like the best, easiest, and most doable option

the teams bargain days are not over. they will continue for 3 more years(and it is yet to be seen if it will be a bargain because we dont know what his production will be)
the best, easiest and most doable is to tell AB to perform at his best and we'll talk in 2 years. if he chooses to not play his best, we'll decide how much of a cut we will ask him to take or release him out right. if he decides to hold out, we will fine him accordingly until he reports and trading him is not an option.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 06:15 PM
Yeah but as per your lease agreement you werent allowed to drive it more than 12,000 miles in a single year without paying per extra mile. The extra miles probably helped you either get somewhere you needed to go or they helped you do something you needed the truck to do. I would say that if you had the second most productive truck in the history of the world you would be making some sort of return on its production elsewhere thus being glad to pay the penalty.


you might have a point if AB's contract stated that he was not to have over 80 catches, 1000 yards and 8 tds for the season.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 06:16 PM
Ok I hear people saying if the Stellers cave that other players would follow, but if the team traded him The same could be said about players wanting to play elsewhere. And the Bellicheat conspiracy theory would really get outrageous by the same fans that want to trade him.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 06:17 PM
Ok I hear people saying if the Stellers cave that other players would follow, but if the team traded him The same could be said about players wanting to play elsewhere. And the Bellicheat conspiracy theory would really get outrageous by the same fans that want to trade him.


trading him would be the wrong thing to do also

Chadman
04-21-2015, 06:18 PM
I'm actually ok with K Train's suggestion- if the contract negotiation is to restructure his deal- that's ok.

I'm not ok with him suddenly demanding more because he doesn't like the value of the contract he signed 2 years ago, when as has been pointed out, the Steelers gambled a lot on him. He WAS paid, and well, for promise, not production.

And Squidkid has some of the best ways of making a point I've read in a while. I like burgers...

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 06:19 PM
Yeah, the burger story is off point, and that waitress can't spell.

LMAO... it sucks when you misspell a word when trying to land a joke.

squidkid
04-21-2015, 06:22 PM
LMAO... it sucks when you misspell a word when trying to land a joke.


i must have offended you.
what do you prefer to be called again, mentally challenged?

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 07:11 PM
It certainly turned out that way. The point is, he wasn't given an Arthur Moats or Steve McClendon type of borderline starter contract. He was paid like a star despite having 3 starts under his belt.

and he delivered. If he came up short do you think we would honor his contract or ask him to take a pay cut.

This is a business and we all know NFL teams have no problem asking a player to take a pay cut or out right cutting him if he doesnt live up to the contract.

Look at Mike Wallace, Miami overpaid him and dealt him with the quickness once he didnt live up to the numbers.

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 07:15 PM
i must have offended you.
what do you prefer to be called again, mentally challenged?

f@cking retarted works just fine... hahahah!

Did the waitress offer you tarder sauce too?

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 07:18 PM
Bell is still on his rookie contract. He hasn't gotten paid. HE also hasn't demanded a pay raise.

He also smoked weed on the way to a preseason game and will miss 3 games.

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 07:25 PM
2 years ago i bought my house. last week the real estate agent calls and asks if i am enjoying my home. i say "yes" .
he says, "cool, the previous owner has decided he wants you to pay him 20k more. and quite frankly, i could use the extra commission"
i tell my wife. she says, "pay the man. this house is awesome. best one on the block". " matter of fact, the neighbors paid a lot more for that rundown shack on the corner. we need to pay more than they did because they made a bad deal on theirs"
i said, "are you f@cking retarded"

If your house appreciates and your taxes go up do you refuse to pay because you signed a contract at a lower price?

The housing agent in your analogy is AB's agent.

The bank is the FO.

When you go to sell your house do you sell it at the price you paid for it?

NorthCoast
04-21-2015, 07:46 PM
Didn't go through all 19 pages of posts so not sure if anyone brought this up, but perhaps his agent is whispering in AB's ear about this being the best chance to cash in on his meteoric stats. Given the rise of Bryant it is not at all unreasonable to think AB's stats may start to slide starting this season. Certainly not because of talent but because of fewer touches when the ball goes elsewhere.

phillyesq
04-21-2015, 09:01 PM
I understand...baseball contracts are guaranteed though.

Steelers also gave him the offer that Mike Wallace turned down. Financially it made no sense for him not to take it as Wallace was a productive WR and Brown was not so much. With him under the rookie contract still and wallace about the walk and them having no faith in sanders they gave it to Brown for security at the position, not because he earned it to that point. It was a gamble by steelers for sure but was one that paid off. Brown was making 450k base with a 20,000 bonus in 2012....his agent would have shot him dead had he turned down an $8.5 million signing bonus on a $41,000,000 contract.

The problem now lies in the guaranteed money. He is guaranteed nothing from this point on except what he had restructured into bonus. From a security standpoint its not a comfortable deal for an elite player to be playing on in that hes one injury away from being expendable.

Like it or not, you can ***** about it and rationalize against it however you want but the teams bargain days with Brown are over...they will need to work something out, even if its simple like guaranteeing more money and tacking some years on which seems like the best, easiest, and most doable option

For all intents and purposes, he has $14.25 million guaranteed. The Steelers are obviously not going to cut him this year. So he's going to get that $6 million. And even if he has a catastrophically bad year, there is almost zero chance that they don't give him a chance to rebound in 2016, so he's getting that $8.25 million. The only thing that isn't all but guaranteed to AB is the last year. Moreover, he's already been paid $19 million. That is money in his pocket.

Moonie
04-21-2015, 09:03 PM
2 years ago i bought my house. last week the real estate agent calls and asks if i am enjoying my home. i say "yes" .
he says, "cool, the previous owner has decided he wants you to pay him 20k more. and quite frankly, i could use the extra commission"
i tell my wife. she says, "pay the man. this house is awesome. best one on the block". " matter of fact, the neighbors paid a lot more for that rundown shack on the corner. we need to pay more than they did because they made a bad deal on theirs"
i said, "are you f@cking retarded"

In the two years since you bought the house, the previous owner has contacted you and told you they accidentally left their savings, worth twice as much as the purchase price of the house, in the basement where NO ONE could have known it was or how much it was. They acknowledge its now your money, but ask you to be fair, and come to some new deal, where both parties come out ahead. The waitress says "is you a f@cking retartedical?"

phillyesq
04-21-2015, 09:08 PM
and he delivered. If he came up short do you think we would honor his contract or ask him to take a pay cut.

This is a business and we all know NFL teams have no problem asking a player to take a pay cut or out right cutting him if he doesnt live up to the contract.

Look at Mike Wallace, Miami overpaid him and dealt him with the quickness once he didnt live up to the numbers.

This is a business, and business dealings are governed by contracts. The contract that AB voluntarily signed, with the advice of an agent, did not guarantee his salary for the last three years. As a matter of contract, the Steelers have the upper hand. AB can live up to his bargain and he'll still make an extraordinary amount of money. Or, he can fail to fulfill his contractual obligations, and the Steelers can fine him and squat on his rights.

Starlifter
04-21-2015, 09:22 PM
no need to get emotional - it's just business. AB is in the business of selling his services. now the fact he has years remaining on his contract would indicate the steelers have the leverage here and don't have to do anything. he can skip all the voluntary workouts he wants. that's just more balls being thrown to players who want his job. is he going to give up millions in the hopes of negotiating more millions? i doubt it.

feltdizz
04-21-2015, 09:55 PM
This is a business, and business dealings are governed by contracts. The contract that AB voluntarily signed, with the advice of an agent, did not guarantee his salary for the last three years. As a matter of contract, the Steelers have the upper hand. AB can live up to his bargain and he'll still make an extraordinary amount of money. Or, he can fail to fulfill his contractual obligations, and the Steelers can fine him and squat on his rights.

The Steelers definitely have the upper hand. They hold his rights and the purse strings.

Steelhere10
04-21-2015, 10:37 PM
Relax people ,from AB tweets he will be there when it counts.

Oviedo
04-22-2015, 08:54 AM
Relax people ,from AB tweets he will be there when it counts.

That was the point I made yesterday. He hasn't missed anything he was required to be at. Like I posted yesterday Troy never came to these things and no one had an issue.

If he misses something mandatory then shame on AB.

Shawn
04-22-2015, 09:25 AM
no need to get emotional - it's just business. AB is in the business of selling his services. now the fact he has years remaining on his contract would indicate the steelers have the leverage here and don't have to do anything. he can skip all the voluntary workouts he wants. that's just more balls being thrown to players who want his job. is he going to give up millions in the hopes of negotiating more millions? i doubt it. I agree. If were Brown I may do the same thing. The problem for Brown is he has almost no leverage. He can threaten to become a locker room cancer, half ass it, not go all out or whatever. That's about it. But, all he does is diminishes his brand, alienates teammates, and destroys his legacy (and I believe it could be a magnificent one). The Steelers would be wise however not to play hardball, and make AB a Steeler for life by extending his contract. If other players not named Brown want this...well in their heart they (anyone not named Ben or Antonio) are replaceable. Brown is not replaceable...Ben is not replaceable and Bell is quickly making himself that way as well. These guys will demand to get paid and I don't blame them.

Shawn
04-22-2015, 09:27 AM
That was the point I made yesterday. He hasn't missed anything he was required to be at. Like I posted yesterday Troy never came to these things and no one had an issue.

If he misses something mandatory then shame on AB. My hope is it's merely posturing for a restructure following the 2015 season.

hausparty
04-22-2015, 11:43 AM
When he starts holding workouts in his driveway for the media we can worry.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2015, 12:01 PM
When he starts holding workouts in his driveway for the media we can worry.

Getcha popcorn ready! ;)

fezziwig
04-22-2015, 02:08 PM
I don't care if AB takes his ball and goes home. He signed a contract.. That is his word, integrity and his character in the signature. Why is it wrong to stick to a persons word ? If the Steelers held a gun at his head with the contract fine but I doubt that was the case.

SteelCrazy
04-22-2015, 02:48 PM
AB tweeted, "Just enjoying my new born Ali can not wait to get back with my teammates !"

12:21pm*- 22 Apr 15

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2015, 02:50 PM
Congrats to Antonio and family on the new baby.

SteelCrazy
04-22-2015, 02:51 PM
Bruce Gradkowski just tweeted this, "Just busted*@CamHeyward*going through@AntonioBrown84*locker and stealing his shoes!! He Still won't be as fast as 84" *pic.twitter.com/kIdhUcWLnR

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDNZNyhWEAAPQrA.jpg

squidkid
04-22-2015, 02:52 PM
AB tweeted, "Just enjoying my new born Ali can not wait to get back with my teammates !"

12:21pm*- 22 Apr 15


damage control at its finest

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-22-2015, 03:12 PM
I think that this is all a long term ploy by an aggressive agent. He knows that the Steelers will not - under any circumstance - redo his contract three years out. He plants the seed this year by telling his client not to go to VOLUNTARY team activities in April. He stays home with his new baby and works out like the fiend that he is anyway. He shows up for all the stipulated mandatory activities and it all gets brushed under the rug.

Next season he is two years out. We all know that the Steelers will negotiate with one year left for most, and two years out for QBs. Agent approaches and now says "Hey, we all know that AB is a Steeler. Why don't we just do the deal now, and not wait for a year."

We are all happy that he shows up no problem this year, and he gets his deal next year.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2015, 03:20 PM
I think that this is all a long term ploy by an aggressive agent. He knows that the Steelers will not - under any circumstance - redo his contract three years out. He plants the seed this year by telling his client not to go to VOLUNTARY team activities in April. He stays home with his new baby and works out like the fiend that he is anyway. He shows up for all the stipulated mandatory activities and it all gets brushed under the rug.

Next season he is two years out. We all know that the Steelers will negotiate with one year left for most, and two years out for QBs. Agent approaches and now says "Hey, we all know that AB is a Steeler. Why don't we just do the deal now, and not wait for a year."

We are all happy that he shows up no problem this year, and he gets his deal next year.

Yeah...with 3 years left on his deal, just skip the voluntary stuff this year but show up for mandatory minicamp and training camp.

Next year...ask again with 2 years to go...if still no...then maybe skip OTA's and perhaps even mandatory minicamp too, but then still come back in time for training camp.

Finally...with one year to go...finally time to get something done. He'd actually skip training camp if no new deal, but I would expect the team to be anxious to work out a new deal with him by this time anyway.

hawaiiansteel
04-22-2015, 04:27 PM
Steelers’ Brown looking for protection

by Dale Lolley
published apr 20, 2015

The Steelers opened voluntary offseason workouts Monday with one notable player missing.

All-Pro wide receiver Antonio Brown won’t be attending any of the Steelers voluntary workouts, his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said.

Beyond that, we’ll see.

This caused much consternation among Steelers fans. Perhaps, this is why the team hosted a number of potential first-round wide receiver prospects in their predraft visits?

Or maybe not.

Brown isn’t going anywhere and given his passion for the sport and competitiveness, he’s unlikely to skip anything of consequence.

At 26, Brown is one of the top wide receivers in the NFL. He’s coming off his best season, one in which he led the NFL in receptions (129) and receiving yards (1,699) while also catching 13 touchdown passes.

For that production, he was compensated $6 million as part of a five-year, $41.7-million contract extension he signed in 2012.

He’s scheduled to make $6 million again this season, with his salary rising above $8 million in 2016 and 2017, the final two years of his deal.

Is he undercompensated? Perhaps, when you look around the league.

The average of Brown’s deal – $8.32 million – ranks 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. He’d obviously like to be at least among the top five, which would put him in the range of former teammate Mike Wallace’s contract.

Wallace, who was traded from Miami to Minnesota this offseason, averages $12 million per year from a deal he signed with the Dolphins.

But maybe the bigger issue for Brown is just 20 percent of his contract is guaranteed.

A quick look at the receivers who are scheduled to be paid more than Brown in 2015, all have much more of their salary guaranteed. Only Green Bay’s Jordy Nelson, at 29 percent of his $39 million package, is even close.

Therein lies the rub for Brown.

Unlike players in other major professional sports, NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed. Blow out your knee or suddenly become unproductive and you’ll quickly find yourself on the unemployment line or asked to take a pay cut.

Don’t think so? Ask Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor or James Harrison.

All three were asked by the Steelers to take pay cuts in recent years if they wanted to stay with the team. Polamalu and Taylor acquiesced. Harrison did not and was released, spending a season in Cincinnati before returning to the Steelers last year.

It happens like that all around the league.

So why shouldn’t a player, who outperformed his contract, try to get more money? After all, NFL careers are fleeting, with even the best players seeing their careers come to an end in their early 30s. They have to make as much money as they can while they are still able to perform.

It might not make Steelers fans happy. Heck, it probably doesn’t make the Steelers’ front office happy.

But it’s part of life. Many forget professional athletes are entertainers.

The same people who might claim Brown is being selfish by wanting more money will have no trouble dropping $15 per ticket to watch their favorite actor in a movie in which they make tens of millions of dollars – even if it bombs. And they have a stunt double to take the big hits.

Brown has no such luxury.

Will skipping offseason workouts help him achieve his goal? Probably not this year. The Steelers are unlikely to make a move to tear up Brown’s current deal and give him a new one with three years remaining.

But it could be something the team revisits in 2016, when it opens up additional salary cap space.

In the meantime, Brown is missing nothing of consequence. It’s not like he’s sitting around his house eating cheese puffs and getting fat.

Part of the reason he became one of the best players in the league is because of his ridiculous work ethic. And that’s not going to change anytime soon.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150420/COLUMN0103/150429972#.VTfoThxcJD7

squidkid
04-22-2015, 04:33 PM
Steelers’ Brown looking for protection

by Dale Lolley
published apr 20, 2015

The Steelers opened voluntary offseason workouts Monday with one notable player missing.

All-Pro wide receiver Antonio Brown won’t be attending any of the Steelers voluntary workouts, his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said.

Beyond that, we’ll see.

This caused much consternation among Steelers fans. Perhaps, this is why the team hosted a number of potential first-round wide receiver prospects in their predraft visits?

Or maybe not.

Brown isn’t going anywhere and given his passion for the sport and competitiveness, he’s unlikely to skip anything of consequence.

At 26, Brown is one of the top wide receivers in the NFL. He’s coming off his best season, one in which he led the NFL in receptions (129) and receiving yards (1,699) while also catching 13 touchdown passes.

For that production, he was compensated $6 million as part of a five-year, $41.7-million contract extension he signed in 2012.

He’s scheduled to make $6 million again this season, with his salary rising above $8 million in 2016 and 2017, the final two years of his deal.

Is he undercompensated? Perhaps, when you look around the league.

The average of Brown’s deal – $8.32 million – ranks 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. He’d obviously like to be at least among the top five, which would put him in the range of former teammate Mike Wallace’s contract.

Wallace, who was traded from Miami to Minnesota this offseason, averages $12 million per year from a deal he signed with the Dolphins.

But maybe the bigger issue for Brown is just 20 percent of his contract is guaranteed.

A quick look at the receivers who are scheduled to be paid more than Brown in 2015, all have much more of their salary guaranteed. Only Green Bay’s Jordy Nelson, at 29 percent of his $39 million package, is even close.

Therein lies the rub for Brown.

Unlike players in other major professional sports, NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed. Blow out your knee or suddenly become unproductive and you’ll quickly find yourself on the unemployment line or asked to take a pay cut.

Don’t think so? Ask Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor or James Harrison.

All three were asked by the Steelers to take pay cuts in recent years if they wanted to stay with the team. Polamalu and Taylor acquiesced. Harrison did not and was released, spending a season in Cincinnati before returning to the Steelers last year.

It happens like that all around the league.

So why shouldn’t a player, who outperformed his contract, try to get more money? After all, NFL careers are fleeting, with even the best players seeing their careers come to an end in their early 30s. They have to make as much money as they can while they are still able to perform.

It might not make Steelers fans happy. Heck, it probably doesn’t make the Steelers’ front office happy.

But it’s part of life. Many forget professional athletes are entertainers.

The same people who might claim Brown is being selfish by wanting more money will have no trouble dropping $15 per ticket to watch their favorite actor in a movie in which they make tens of millions of dollars – even if it bombs. And they have a stunt double to take the big hits.

Brown has no such luxury.

Will skipping offseason workouts help him achieve his goal? Probably not this year. The Steelers are unlikely to make a move to tear up Brown’s current deal and give him a new one with three years remaining.

But it could be something the team revisits in 2016, when it opens up additional salary cap space.

In the meantime, Brown is missing nothing of consequence. It’s not like he’s sitting around his house eating cheese puffs and getting fat.

Part of the reason he became one of the best players in the league is because of his ridiculous work ethic. And that’s not going to change anytime soon.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150420/COLUMN0103/150429972#.VTfoThxcJD7



dale, stfu

Slapstick
04-22-2015, 04:41 PM
Steelers’ Brown looking for protection

by Dale Lolley
published apr 20, 2015

The Steelers opened voluntary offseason workouts Monday with one notable player missing.

All-Pro wide receiver Antonio Brown won’t be attending any of the Steelers voluntary workouts, his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said.

Beyond that, we’ll see.

This caused much consternation among Steelers fans. Perhaps, this is why the team hosted a number of potential first-round wide receiver prospects in their predraft visits?

Or maybe not.

Brown isn’t going anywhere and given his passion for the sport and competitiveness, he’s unlikely to skip anything of consequence.

At 26, Brown is one of the top wide receivers in the NFL. He’s coming off his best season, one in which he led the NFL in receptions (129) and receiving yards (1,699) while also catching 13 touchdown passes.

For that production, he was compensated $6 million as part of a five-year, $41.7-million contract extension he signed in 2012.

He’s scheduled to make $6 million again this season, with his salary rising above $8 million in 2016 and 2017, the final two years of his deal.

Is he undercompensated? Perhaps, when you look around the league.

The average of Brown’s deal – $8.32 million – ranks 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. He’d obviously like to be at least among the top five, which would put him in the range of former teammate Mike Wallace’s contract.

Wallace, who was traded from Miami to Minnesota this offseason, averages $12 million per year from a deal he signed with the Dolphins.

But maybe the bigger issue for Brown is just 20 percent of his contract is guaranteed.

A quick look at the receivers who are scheduled to be paid more than Brown in 2015, all have much more of their salary guaranteed. Only Green Bay’s Jordy Nelson, at 29 percent of his $39 million package, is even close.

Therein lies the rub for Brown.

Unlike players in other major professional sports, NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed. Blow out your knee or suddenly become unproductive and you’ll quickly find yourself on the unemployment line or asked to take a pay cut.

Don’t think so? Ask Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor or James Harrison.

All three were asked by the Steelers to take pay cuts in recent years if they wanted to stay with the team. Polamalu and Taylor acquiesced. Harrison did not and was released, spending a season in Cincinnati before returning to the Steelers last year.

It happens like that all around the league.

So why shouldn’t a player, who outperformed his contract, try to get more money? After all, NFL careers are fleeting, with even the best players seeing their careers come to an end in their early 30s. They have to make as much money as they can while they are still able to perform.

It might not make Steelers fans happy. Heck, it probably doesn’t make the Steelers’ front office happy.

But it’s part of life. Many forget professional athletes are entertainers.

The same people who might claim Brown is being selfish by wanting more money will have no trouble dropping $15 per ticket to watch their favorite actor in a movie in which they make tens of millions of dollars – even if it bombs. And they have a stunt double to take the big hits.

Brown has no such luxury.

Will skipping offseason workouts help him achieve his goal? Probably not this year. The Steelers are unlikely to make a move to tear up Brown’s current deal and give him a new one with three years remaining.

But it could be something the team revisits in 2016, when it opens up additional salary cap space.

In the meantime, Brown is missing nothing of consequence. It’s not like he’s sitting around his house eating cheese puffs and getting fat.

Part of the reason he became one of the best players in the league is because of his ridiculous work ethic. And that’s not going to change anytime soon.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150420/COLUMN0103/150429972#.VTfoThxcJD7

Good points.

I would prefer to have him at OTAs...but, I'd stay home if I had a newborn...

feltdizz
04-22-2015, 05:16 PM
Dale hit it out of the park.

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2015, 06:15 PM
AB tweeted, "Just enjoying my new born Ali can not wait to get back with my teammates !"

12:21pm*- 22 Apr 15

By Josh Alper
April 22, 2015, 1:48 PM EDT
Antonio Brown: I’m spending time with my newborn, can’t wait to be back with team

Steelers wide receiver Antonio Brown isn’t working out with his teammates at the team’s offseason program and reports on Monday indicated that he was looking for a new deal from the team.

That may be the case, but it also may not be the only reason why Brown hasn’t decided to take part in the opening week of the team’s voluntary workouts. Brown sent out a tweet on Tuesday evening that said “I’ll be there” and added a pair of tweets on Wednesday explaining that he’s spending time with his new child and making no mention of his contract.

“Just enjoying my new born Ali can not wait to get back with my teammates! I am dad first and working to be best player I can be,” Brown wrote.

The next few months will determine how much Brown will push for a new deal after signing a six-year extension in 2012, but the Steelers have had a policy of not negotiating a new deal for non-quarterbacks with more than a year left on their deals. We’ll see if they change their minds if Brown misses mandatory work but, for now, Brown’s own words don’t suggest a long holdout is in the offing.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-22-2015, 06:38 PM
Lolly popped that one big time. Made the same point I did earlier on one of the first few pages of this thread ... NFL = Not For Long, may as well grab the $$ while you can because the owners sure as pumpkins are not going to keep you on the payroll if you get injured ... "contract" or not.

hawaiiansteel
04-22-2015, 08:15 PM
Lolly popped that one big time. Made the same point I did earlier on one of the first few pages of this thread ... NFL = Not For Long, may as well grab the $$ while you can because the owners sure as pumpkins are not going to keep you on the payroll if you get injured ... "contract" or not.

so you're Dale Lolley, eh? :D

SteelCrazy
04-23-2015, 01:26 AM
The thing about actors and players in other sports is they sign a contract and abide by it. If AB wants to play another sport or become an actor he is free to do so...Dale Lolley is a bone head...aka Captain Obvious aka Captain Oblivious

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-23-2015, 01:51 AM
so you're Dale Lolley, eh? :D "Might be, who's askin'?" Actually, I don't know whether he's a dbag or a good guy, I just happen to agree with him on this issue. Just because it's called a "contract" doesn't mean it can't be challenged, that happens all the time in other businesses. The way I see it, the NFL is one of the biggest businesses in the country, why should it be any different? He's not challenging it now, of course. I actually think these guys need lawyers to advise them about contract law, not sleazy agents.

Northern_Blitz
04-23-2015, 05:42 AM
The thing about actors and players in other sports is they sign a contract and abide by it. If AB wants to play another sport or become an actor he is free to do so...Dale Lolley is a bone head...aka Captain Obvious aka Captain Oblivious

It's would also be fair to point out the employers for actors and athletes in other sports also have to abide by the terms of a contract. Teams in the NFL can cut a guy whenever they want. The other side of that is that players can hold out.

This is not a big deal, it's just a little drama for them to write about before anything of actual importance happens. Brown will play.

Shawn
04-23-2015, 09:19 AM
It's would also be fair to point out the employers for actors and athletes in other sports also have to abide by the terms of a contract. Teams in the NFL can cut a guy whenever they want. The other side of that is that players can hold out.

This is not a big deal, it's just a little drama for them to write about before anything of actual importance happens. Brown will play. That is true. With that said, I could go to my CEO and ask for the old contract to be ripped up and negotiate a new one. She may decline the request and I would have to make decisions from there.

SS Laser
04-23-2015, 09:40 AM
That is true. With that said, I could go to my CEO and ask for the old contract to be ripped up and negotiate a new one. She may decline the request and I would have to make decisions from there. And She could fire you for underperforming correct?

Slapstick
04-23-2015, 09:47 AM
That is true. With that said, I could go to my CEO and ask for the old contract to be ripped up and negotiate a new one. She may decline the request and I would have to make decisions from there.

How would that affect your company's salary cap?

RuthlessBurgher
04-23-2015, 09:50 AM
How would that affect your company's salary cap?

I'm sure Shawn's had to restructure his contract at least once or twice to convert some of his base salary to signing bonus that can be spread out over the remaining years of his deal. ;)

Shawn
04-23-2015, 10:45 AM
And She could fire you for underperforming correct? She could indeed.

Shawn
04-23-2015, 10:46 AM
I'm sure Shawn's had to restructure his contract at least once or twice to convert some of his base salary to signing bonus that can be spread out over the remaining years of his deal. ;) Actually, it's closer to that than you would think. :)

Shawn
04-23-2015, 10:47 AM
How would that affect your company's salary cap? I could price myself out of a job.

Slapstick
04-23-2015, 10:48 AM
I could price myself out of a job.

Does your salary have direct ramifications on what your CEO can spend on your teammates?

Shawn
04-23-2015, 12:15 PM
Does your salary have direct ramifications on what your CEO can spend on your teammates? It actually does...I took a hometown discount so I could surround myself with good players. :)

Slapstick
04-23-2015, 12:16 PM
It actually does...I took a hometown discount so I could surround myself with good players. :)

I wish some of the Steelers would...

Shawn
04-23-2015, 12:17 PM
I wish some of the Steelers would... Yeah, no kidding. I think Ben was fair.

feltdizz
04-23-2015, 12:21 PM
The thing about actors and players in other sports is they sign a contract and abide by it. If AB wants to play another sport or become an actor he is free to do so...Dale Lolley is a bone head...aka Captain Obvious aka Captain Oblivious

Terrance Howard signed a contract for 3 Iron Man movies... he actually made MORE than Robert Downey Jr. in the first film. After the film blew up the film company asked Terrance Howard to take a pay cut and he refused. He was supposed to make $8 million for the second Iron Man film and they asked him to take a pay and make $1 million.

He asked them to honor the contract he signed. They gave his part to Don Cheadle.

Slapstick
04-23-2015, 12:22 PM
Yeah, no kidding. I think Ben was fair.

I agree. Instead of demanding to be the highest paid player at his position, he is simply in the top 3 (?) now...

I guess that's a kind of discount...

I can't say he didn't earn it, though. You have a legit, franchise QB, you pay him.

Shawn
04-23-2015, 12:24 PM
I think Ben could have held out for the highest paid QB in the history of the game and the Steelers would have paid it.

feltdizz
04-23-2015, 12:24 PM
Yeah, no kidding. I think Ben was fair.

yep, he also makes a ton of money and has a lot of it guaranteed.

has a QB ever held out? just wondering.

RuthlessBurgher
04-23-2015, 12:28 PM
Terrance Howard signed a contract for 3 Iron Man movies... he actually made MORE than Robert Downey Jr. in the first film. After the film blew up the film company asked Terrance Howard to take a pay cut and he refused. He was supposed to make $8 million for the second Iron Man film and they asked him to take a pay and make $1 million.

He asked them to honor the contract he signed. They gave his part to Don Cheadle.

And now he's running his own Empire. ;)

feltdizz
04-23-2015, 12:44 PM
And now he's running his own Empire. ;)

killing it!!

In a good way

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-23-2015, 05:36 PM
Speaking of Ben, I'm pretty sure he hears the clock ticking, knows that ABs don't fall off trees, and would be very upset if Rooney let him (AB) go. AB knows he can count on Ben to a large degree to help him get more $$.

NorthCoast
04-23-2015, 06:28 PM
DEFINITION of 'Fair Market Value'

The price that a given property or asset would fetch in the marketplace, subject to the following conditions:

1. Prospective buyers and sellers are reasonably knowledgeable about the asset; they are behaving in their own best interests and are free of undue pressure to trade.

2. A reasonable time period is given for the transaction to be completed.

Given these conditions, an asset's fair market value should represent an accurate valuation or assessment of its worth.

www.investopedia.com

phillyesq
04-23-2015, 06:31 PM
Terrance Howard signed a contract for 3 Iron Man movies... he actually made MORE than Robert Downey Jr. in the first film. After the film blew up the film company asked Terrance Howard to take a pay cut and he refused. He was supposed to make $8 million for the second Iron Man film and they asked him to take a pay and make $1 million.

He asked them to honor the contract he signed. They gave his part to Don Cheadle.

When AB took the $8.5 million signing bonus after three starts, he and his agent knew full well that the back end of the contract wasn't guaranteed. They knew that the Steelers could cut him at any time while, on the other hand, he was obligated to pay for the salary that he negotiated. That was the bargain that he made.

squidkid
04-23-2015, 06:47 PM
seems like some of the same posters that cry that we never have any money to sign big FAs are the same ones crying for the steelers to pay AB top wr money.

feltdizz
04-23-2015, 07:07 PM
seems like some of the same posters that cry that we never have any money to sign big FAs are the same ones crying for the steelers to pay AB top wr money.

The Steeler never sign big money FA's...

Slapstick
04-23-2015, 07:11 PM
Yeah, we should definitely go out and sign a different WR who produces like AB!

Umm...wait a minute...

squidkid
04-23-2015, 07:12 PM
The Steeler never sign big money FA's...

whats that have to do with this post?

feltdizz
04-23-2015, 10:30 PM
whats that have to do with this post?

now you are starting to get it...

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2015, 09:22 AM
Labriola on non-events of the past week

Posted 3 hours ago

Bob Labriola Steelers.com

AB, signing a punter and a long-snapper, and a draft visit riled up Steelers Nation.

Ready or not, here it comes:

* Everybody, just take two steps back, away from the panic button.

* Apparently, three recent non-events taking place over the past week, or to frame it in the context of where we are on the NFL calendar, three different non-events taking place some five complete months before a game that counts, sent portions of Steelers Nation into a tizzy.

* The most significant of the non-events – just typing that is making my ears ring – was Antonio Brown not attending the first day of Phase 1 of the offseason program.

* We take a quick pause here to explain Phase 1 of an NFL offseason program: it’s voluntary, and even though it’s ostensibly a football practice involving football players at a football facility, there are no actual footballs permitted.

* Right. It’s exactly like open gym at your high school.

* And nobody even would’ve noticed Brown wasn’t there if his agent hadn’t announced it via a leaked report to Foxsports.com, which begs the question: is somebody even officially absent if no one notices?

* Just so everyone understands the milquetoast tone of the original “report” on FoxSports.com, here is the exact text from Mike Garafolo’s story: “The All-Pro wide receiver, who has caught 239 passes in the past two seasons combined, will be skipping the voluntary workout program and is mulling sitting out mandatory minicamp and perhaps even training camp in an attempt to secure a new contract, sources have told FOX Sports.”

* To summarize: Antonio Brown isn’t attending something he isn’t required to attend, and beyond that, everything else is up in the air. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Maybe the world will end, maybe it won’t.

* In the current Collective Bargaining Agreement, there are no more two-a-day practices in pads, there are a limited number of padded practices during a regular season, there are a specified number of days off during the bye week. Those all are examples of issues the players wanted. In the same CBA are a set of penalties designed to make it painfully punitive for any player with a signed contract who holds out.

* For example, a team can fine a player, with a signed contract, up to $70,000 for missing minicamp. For each day of missed training camp, it’s another $30,000. Then if the holdout continues, teams are permitted to start going after prorated portions of already-paid signing bonuses.

* Without getting into a lot of ifs, the tab for a holdout that would include minicamp and the first six days of training camp would be approaching $750,000. And that’s just for some days of football in shorts and the first few padded practices of a training camp that usually lasts close to three full weeks.

* That certainly would classify as a heckuva commitment to a hopeless cause.

* And it is a hopeless cause, because the Steelers don’t do contract extensions for non-quarterbacks until the player is about to enter the final season of his existing deal.

* In my opinion Antonio Brown’s best course of action would be to show up for OTAs, then minicamp, and then report to training camp as scheduled to avoid any fines; then play the next two years under his current contract, which reportedly will pay him a total of $14.25 million in base salary; and then look for a bigger payday from the Steelers heading into the 2017 season when he will be 28-going-on-29 years old.

* So all of that was Monday going into Tuesday, and then on Tuesday night, Brown tweeted, “I’ll be there.” On Wednesday, he tweeted, “Just enjoying my new born Ali can not wait to get back with my teammates! I am dad first and working to be best player I can be.”

* So, OK. Never mind. Apparently.

* Great, moving on to the next non-event – the signing of a second Australian punter, this one named Jordan Berry, with the other Australian punter being Brad Wing, who held the job for the Steelers in 2014. The two Aussies are joined on the Steelers’ offseason roster by first-year player Richie Leone.

* This signing obviously happened because the Steelers are really unhappy with Wing and they really don’t think Leone is the answer there, either.

* OR, the Steelers know they’re going to need a punter for rookie minicamp, which will be held the weekend after the draft, and because Berry is someone who qualifies under the very strict requirements governing player eligibility for that exercise, he was a safe signing.

* But what about the long-snapper, Brandon Hartson, the Steelers claimed off waivers from the Kansas City Chiefs? Certainly he was signed to compete with veteran Greg Warren, right?

* Wrong. Hartson’s entire NFL career entailed being signed by the Chiefs to a futures contract and then waived before the start of the offseason program. That makes him eligible for rookie minicamp, and by the way, can you imagine how difficult/impossible it would be to try to conduct a football practice without a viable long-snapper and punter?

* Since this is so much fun, let’s throw in another non-event just for yuks. Wide receiver Jaelen Strong from Arizona State was at the Steelers facility on April 17 as one of the team’s allotted draft visits.

* Wow. Strong is a top talent at that position, so it’s obvious the Steelers are re-thinking their draft priorities, with receiver becoming more of a need what with Antonio Brown going to be a holdout and all.

* Wrong again. Strong had a wrist injury that was bad enough to have some believing he would require surgery, and when Strong missed the medical re-check that was held in Indianapolis he came to Pittsburgh for a battery of tests on his wrist. According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Steelers’ doctors cleared Strong and are sending the results of his checkup to other teams.

* So, let’s go to the scoreboard. Antonio Brown’s holdout looks like it’s going to be much ado about nothing. The punter and the long-snapper the Steelers signed are nothing more than guys they need to get through rookie minicamp. And Jaelen Strong’s visit to Pittsburgh had more to do with medical information than the Steelers surprising the world and picking a wide receiver in the first round of this draft.

* But wait just a minute.

* Nobody saw James Harrison during the first couple of days of open gym, disguised as Phase I of the offseason program. Or Ben Roethlisberger.

* Where’s that panic button?

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Labriola-on-non-events-of-the-past-week/69f330ce-2221-4b55-8a02-34b6f66eee18

phillyesq
04-27-2015, 11:09 AM
This is good to see:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/27/antonio-brown-at-steelers-workouts/

K Train
04-27-2015, 11:42 AM
lol glad antonio haynesworth made it in

feltdizz
04-27-2015, 11:54 AM
lol glad antonio haynesworth made it in

lol...I wonder if this was the Pittsburgh media stirring things up since the Pirates were losing and the Pens looked like trash.

Jooser
04-27-2015, 01:37 PM
HHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'SSSSSSS BAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKKK!!! LOL

all-to-do-about NOTHIN